Skip navigation

To be, or not to be, Indy is the question

or Register to post new content in the forum

39 RepliesJump to last post

 

Comments

  • Allowed HTML tags: <em> <strong> <blockquote> <br> <p>

Plain text

  • No HTML tags allowed.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
Apr 12, 2007 1:05 pm

[quote=Indyone][quote=Sampson]I agree that you’re doing the smart thing by looking around way ahead of time.

The only thing I have slightly disagree on is every time anyone asks about going independent, they always get the same 2 firms suggested to them. LPL and RAY JAY.

While both firms have their strong points, if you're not doing $500,000+ in production (and that is still VERY small at either of those two) you're not going to get noticed. Chances are you may be stuck under an OSJ who isn't there to help you grow.

My advice is check out both LPL and RAY JAY but also check out some "Not so giant" firms out there which could play more into your lifestyle and financial issues.

Look at issues of if the B/D helps you market for clients or teaches you how to sell alternative products to clients.

Are you, at some point, interested in building reps into your organization? If you have ever given it thought, check out B/D's to see what plans they have for recruiting for their OSJ's.

I know of one B/D in particular who is spending a little over 1.2 million this year just to recruit for their OSJ's. Something to consider.

Just my 2 centavos. Keep up your due dilligence.

Samps[/quote]

Some valid points, but you're off on the OSJ level...LPL allows you to OSJ at $125K production...RJ is $200K or perhaps more.  Neither require anywhere near $500K to be your own OSJ.  Even if you are under another OSJ, why on earth would an OSJ who's getting overrides not want your business to flourish?

...and while smaller B/Ds can feel more personal, they may (emphasize may) also leave you hamstrung when competing for more sophisticated relationships.  Just make sure that your prospective B/D gives you all the tools you need to flourish.  IF you have everything you need and are satisfied with the payout, then yes, I can see advantages to smaller B/Ds, but that's a big IF.

[/quote]

I either mis-typed my point or it was misread so let me clarify. :)

I wasn't alluding to the fact that a he had to be producing at least $500,000 to be an OSJ. I was saying that at both firms, $500,000 is a small number and if he's not making close to that to have his rep number ready when he calls in to either...

Why would an OSJ collect overrides and not want the business to grow? Come on now... You mean to tell me you've never met an OSJ who gets "assigned" reps, approves the business submitted and does little else to help his downline?? I've seen it 100 times if not more my friend.

Not being argumentative, just factual.

In my opinion, the more firms get fined extensively for doing the wrong things consistently (RJ), the more I tend to steer clear of them.

Also, In my opinion, most LPL guys singing the praises today will be looking for the exit when they sell out, which is exactly they'll do. They are already selling chunks of it here and there...

I don't think small firms are the choice for everyone but I DO think that smaller firms may be a better fit for brokers on their way up in the business who haven't had a chance to sit at the 1mm round table. ;)

Good discussion by all. Loving this forum!

Samps

Apr 12, 2007 1:40 pm

[quote=Sampson]

I either mis-typed my point or it was misread so let me clarify. :)

I wasn't alluding to the fact that a he had to be producing at least $500,000 to be an OSJ. I was saying that at both firms, $500,000 is a small number and if he's not making close to that to have his rep number ready when he calls in to either...

Why would an OSJ collect overrides and not want the business to grow? Come on now... You mean to tell me you've never met an OSJ who gets "assigned" reps, approves the business submitted and does little else to help his downline?? I've seen it 100 times if not more my friend.

Not being argumentative, just factual.

In my opinion, the more firms get fined extensively for doing the wrong things consistently (RJ), the more I tend to steer clear of them.

Also, In my opinion, most LPL guys singing the praises today will be looking for the exit when they sell out, which is exactly they'll do. They are already selling chunks of it here and there...

I don't think small firms are the choice for everyone but I DO think that smaller firms may be a better fit for brokers on their way up in the business who haven't had a chance to sit at the 1mm round table. ;)

Good discussion by all. Loving this forum!

Samps

[/quote]

Sampson-

You have referred to LPL selling off "chunks" of the business several times now.  Are you referring to the sale of a stake to private equity firms?  If not, can you elaborate as to what you mean?  Thanks...

And by the way, I am not producing at the 500k level, and while I do need to provide my rep number when I call in I have found the service at LPL to be excellent. It absolutely blows away anything I experienced at my prior home, the lovely Swiss owned fancypants wirehouse.
Apr 12, 2007 6:27 pm

[quote=Sampson]I either mis-typed my point or it was misread so let me clarify.

I wasn't alluding to the fact that a he had to be producing at least $500,000 to be an OSJ. I was saying that at both firms, $500,000 is a small number and if he's not making close to that to have his rep number ready when he calls in to either...

Why would an OSJ collect overrides and not want the business to grow? Come on now... You mean to tell me you've never met an OSJ who gets "assigned" reps, approves the business submitted and does little else to help his downline?? I've seen it 100 times if not more my friend.  I've not seen it, but I won't say that you are wrong about some OSJ's.  I OSJ for another office and I'm constantly talking with the rep, giving advice and ideas of how to improve production, which helps both of us.  I am close to a couple of other LPL OSJ's and they have the same attitude...helping reps under our OSJ's is both personally satisfying and financially rewarding.  I'm sure what you describe happens, I'm just not sure it's as universal as you seem to think.

Not being argumentative, just factual.

In my opinion, the more firms get fined extensively for doing the wrong things consistently (RJ), the more I tend to steer clear of them.

Also, In my opinion, most LPL guys singing the praises today will be looking for the exit when they sell out, which is exactly they'll do. They are already selling chunks of it here and there... I doubt it.  RayJay is publicly traded, keeps raising their minimums, and put in a nasty VA policy last year that cut VA payout pretty much across the board.  Sure they lost some reps, but it's obvious from the numbers that most of them stayed.  I'm not saying there won't be any negatives withgoing public, but I have a hard time believing that LPL will put in changes that drive all the reps away and destroy their business.  Time will tell, but I just don't see a big seismic shift in how clients are treated when the firm goes public.

I don't think small firms are the choice for everyone but I DO think that smaller firms may be a better fit for brokers on their way up in the business who haven't had a chance to sit at the 1mm round table. ;)

Good discussion by all. Loving this forum!

Samps[/quote]

I agree...good, civil discussion.  At the risk of spewing too much Kool-Aid, I'll say again that LPL has been very forthcoming and never lied to me, and the platform does pretty much everything I need and several things I don't.  I don't see a need to exit anytime soon, but then again, you never know...

Apr 17, 2007 5:09 am

Thanks for the replies.  I know you regulars deal with the same questions frequently, so I appreciate the info.    I know I work for the big green monster, and many of you just roll your eyes at my ignorance, but hey... ya gotta start somewhere, right?

My view is that it is/was a great low risk starting point to this career.  I really haven't run into the problems and crap I've seen a lot of you talk about.  I know they exist, but I've got a great situation where I'm at.  No product/production/participation pressures at all.   Even my compliance guys don't give me too much problem for going off the reservation as long as I've got my justification in order.  There are SERIOUS limitations to what we can do, but I'm aware of them.  I don't drink the koolaid, but I can tolerate the system if it gets me what I need. 

Anyway, more questions:

What level of production do I need to be at to make myself attractive to indie firms? Not just acceptable, but attractive?

What level do I need to be at to make a move worthwhile, and set myself up for success?

Right now I've only got my 7/63 and AAMS.  yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.  I do a helluva job managing relationships, i don't have much product focus in my office, and spend A LOT of time with estate planning clients.  I have worked 100% referral since my wonderful eval/grad class.  My referral network works wonders for me here.  Anyway, What licensing certifications do you feel are necessary to make a go of it?  Do I really need my CFP, or is that an added bonus that can be added down the road?

Since I have some time left at the beast but plan on keeping food on my table until I leave, what fund families should I look at that work within the beast's confines AND you think I can feel proud about working with once I leave?

I don't plan on going 100% fee based, so what does partial comm base look like in the outside world?

Apr 17, 2007 4:40 pm

[quote=companyman]Anyway, more questions:

What level of production do I need to be at to make myself attractive to indie firms? Not just acceptable, but attractive?  I'm guessing 300K.  That would gross most firms about $45,000, which I would think would be more than acceptable.  WHo knows what the real answer is...all I know is that I was between three and four hundred thou production and both RJ and LPL didn't bat an eye at flying me out and treating me like a VIP.  I came from a bank program and I would imagine that $300K in your channel would be even more attractive due to retention rates being higher.

What level do I need to be at to make a move worthwhile, and set myself up for success?  About the same in my experience.  I dropped off by about a third and am gradually working myself back up.  Even so, it didn't take long at all for me to net more than I ever did as an employee, since I'm no longer paying for a bunch of management slugs.

Right now I've only got my 7/63 and AAMS.  yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.  I do a helluva job managing relationships, i don't have much product focus in my office, and spend A LOT of time with estate planning clients.  I have worked 100% referral since my wonderful eval/grad class.  My referral network works wonders for me here.  Anyway, What licensing certifications do you feel are necessary to make a go of it?  Do I really need my CFP, or is that an added bonus that can be added down the road?  The CFP is great for credibility, but I don't think it's critical to your success.  I would say nothing to your clients until you have it as it may take longer than anticipated to get through the program, depending on your motivation.  I'd focus on your business first, but you'll be doing yourself and your clients a big favor if you pick the CFP credential up in 3-5 years.

Since I have some time left at the beast but plan on keeping food on my table until I leave, what fund families should I look at that work within the beast's confines AND you think I can feel proud about working with once I leave?  Plenty here will disagree, but you won't do much damage to your clients using American and Franklin.  If you want to cut your ACAT reimbursement expense, do the accounts direct at the funds.  Just understand that management will probably be suspicious and want to know why you are doing that.  My answer on IRAs was an honest one...I hated to charge a $35 annual IRA fee when I could do the same thing for $10-15.

I don't plan on going 100% fee based, so what does partial comm base look like in the outside world?  Not sure what your question is here, but I do both...am about 40% fee-based and about another 20% in 1% trail brokerage (annuities and C shares).  Overall, I have about a 75bp velocity.  If that doesn't answer it for you, clarify and I'll respond.[/quote]

Apr 18, 2007 1:09 am

[quote=companyman]

Thanks for the replies.  I know you regulars deal with the same questions frequently, so I appreciate the info.    I know I work for the big green monster, and many of you just roll your eyes at my ignorance, but hey... ya gotta start somewhere, right?

My view is that it is/was a great low risk starting point to this career.  I really haven't run into the problems and crap I've seen a lot of you talk about.  I know they exist, but I've got a great situation where I'm at.  No product/production/participation pressures at all.   Even my compliance guys don't give me too much problem for going off the reservation as long as I've got my justification in order.  There are SERIOUS limitations to what we can do, but I'm aware of them.  I don't drink the koolaid, but I can tolerate the system if it gets me what I need. 

Anyway, more questions:

What level of production do I need to be at to make myself attractive to indie firms? Not just acceptable, but attractive?

What level do I need to be at to make a move worthwhile, and set myself up for success?

Right now I've only got my 7/63 and AAMS.  yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.  I do a helluva job managing relationships, i don't have much product focus in my office, and spend A LOT of time with estate planning clients.  I have worked 100% referral since my wonderful eval/grad class.  My referral network works wonders for me here.  Anyway, What licensing certifications do you feel are necessary to make a go of it?  Do I really need my CFP, or is that an added bonus that can be added down the road?

Since I have some time left at the beast but plan on keeping food on my table until I leave, what fund families should I look at that work within the beast's confines AND you think I can feel proud about working with once I leave?

I don't plan on going 100% fee based, so what does partial comm base look like in the outside world?

[/quote]

Companyman- I am one like yourself in the same boat.  On the MF side I use Franklin Templeton, Davis, Thornburg, First Eagle and some others. I have my AAMS also, and will take the CFP in November, I really feel that helps to separate advisors. I wish you well and keep gathering those assets!!!

Apr 28, 2007 6:16 am

I bumped into a Jonesee  that left my region about 2 years ago today.  I thought he went ot RJ but it turns out he has been at LPL.    I know that before he left  he was a solid segment 4 guy  and he took  about 80% of his book.  ( i know him and his replacement) .

I didn’t tell him anything about what I’ve been considering but he just started talking…   This guy isn’t miserable, but he seriously wishes he was back in the fold.  He said he deals with a constant lack of support that makes his extra $$$ just not worth it.   He griped some more but I quit paying attention. 

He is the only one I know that went on his own and prefers to be back in the firm.  Any others that you know?

And former EJ, current LPL guys - what do you think of his statements that the support is even worse?
<!–
var SymRealOnLoad;
var SymReal;

Sym()
{
window.open = SymWinOpen;
if(SymReal != null)
SymReal();
}

SymOnLoad()
{
if(SymRealOnLoad != null)
SymRealOnLoad();
window.open = SymRealWinOpen;
SymReal = window.;
window. = Sym;
}

SymRealOnLoad = window.onload;
window.onload = SymOnLoad;

//–>

Apr 28, 2007 1:45 pm

I assume since I'm new to LPL's system, I would notice more about the service being received and at this point, I see nothing to make me whine about the service.  Sure we have days were we'll call in twice and ask the same question, just to make sure we're doing something correctly.  But on the other hand, we did this at EDJ also.  I'm suprised by a seg 4 guy complaining about service.  As I've said before, independence is NOT for a person who needs to be told what to do and where to do it.  This is for entreprenuers...self starters, hard workers..etc.  There's a reason we get a  90% payout and using common sense and the training we've all received, it's actually a non issue in my world.

Apr 28, 2007 2:02 pm

Your fellow Jonesey sounds like a whiner. He also sounds like one who isn’t happy no matter where he is. LPL service is a hell of lot better than jones. I know I worked for them for 2 yrs. Jones support treated the IR like crap, low man on the totum pole. I speak to an lpl support person and they treat me with respect. Big difference in my humble opinion!

Apr 28, 2007 2:07 pm

That’s the first time I’ve heard of a broker wanting to go back to Jones. Still,

if he’s not happy he should speak with them. I feel confident in saying that

they’d welcome him back with open arms, if for no other reason they could

demonstrate to the fold that the grass isn’t greener. I should think that

Jones would view that as a coup of sorts.

Apr 28, 2007 3:57 pm

yeah, it could be that he is a whiner, but he wasn't one when he was at Jones so it kind of puzzled me.  He was always a guy who worked hard, did well, and didn't complain.  I can't imagine what kind of support he would really be missing.  I mean - if I can't figure out something on the system there is someone I can call to walk me through it ( a la #11), right?

I don't really see how he could come back.  We've had quite a few go to ML and come back, AGE, and SB, too, but I just can't see how he could justify it to his clients.  I'd think they'd lose confidence in a guy who decided he couldn't cut it outside of the big green.

obviously LPL and RJ have a version of field supervision (hopefully they're actually trained in what they do)  what does the annuity or LI approval process look like in relation to the hoops you have to jump through at EJ?

Apr 28, 2007 8:03 pm

Strange…either the guy isn’t too bright, or really really liked the EJ system

that theoretically took everything off his back with his own BOA, etc.

However, it isn’t hard to find 9 other former EJers at LPL and/or RJ. Find

them and you’ll likely discover that you’ve talked to the one of the 10 that

doesn’t love it for whatever reason. In other words, posting and reading

here does not constitute due diligence.



OR, perhaps companyman has devised a well-thought out trolling system

to plant doubts in the minds of newer EJ lurkers here who may want to go

indy eventually. Posing as a former jumper only to find that “the grass

isn’t always greener” would be quite creative. Oh perhaps I’m just

paranoid.



And his clients would probably understand if he did go back–at least

they know what to expect. If he feels like it was/is better, client would

appreciate the acknowledgement I would bet.

Apr 28, 2007 8:29 pm

[quote=companyman]I bumped into a Jonesee  that left my region about 2 years ago today.  I thought he went ot RJ but it turns out he has been at LPL.    I know that before he left  he was a solid segment 4 guy  and he took  about 80% of his book.  ( i know him and his replacement) .

I didn’t tell him anything about what I’ve been considering but he just started talking…   This guy isn’t miserable, but he seriously wishes he was back in the fold.  He said he deals with a constant lack of support that makes his extra $$$ just not worth it.   He griped some more but I quit paying attention. 

He is the only one I know that went on his own and prefers to be back in the firm.  Any others that you know?

And former EJ, current LPL guys - what do you think of his statements that the support is even worse?
<!–
var SymRealOnLoad;
var SymReal;

Sym()
{
window.open = SymWinOpen;
if(SymReal != null)
SymReal();
}

SymOnLoad()
{
if(SymRealOnLoad != null)
SymRealOnLoad();
window.open = SymRealWinOpen;
SymReal = window.;
window. = Sym;
}

SymRealOnLoad = window.onload;
window.onload = SymOnLoad;

//–>

[/quote]

If he’s unhappy about the level of support it’s because he’s not reinvesting enough of his own money in the business to get help, and in technology that makes things run more efficiently…

Apr 28, 2007 9:15 pm

[quote=Cowboy93]
OR, perhaps companyman has devised a well-thought out trolling system
to plant doubts in the minds of newer EJ lurkers here who may want to go
indy eventually. Posing as a former jumper only to find that "the grass
isn't always greener" would be quite creative. Oh perhaps I'm just
paranoid.
QUOTE]

is your tinfoil hat getting a little tight there?  I am who I say I am, no more, no less.  I certainly wouldn't look to a forum for due diligence, but since you're all so nice and friendly I do appreciate the input.   Knowledge is power and all that.  I'm so early in the process of looking outside that I'm still trying to quantify what it is I don't know.  If other EJers want to stay or go is none of my business.  They can have a great career there, they can have a great career elsewhere.  Ain't none of my business.

Apr 28, 2007 10:50 pm

Well, I would talk to your ex-EJ colleague again and actually pay attention

the whole time…and see if you can glean whatever it is that has tripped him

up or caused him to somewhat regret his decision. Odds are that “it” won’t

affect you, but that is something you need to know.

Apr 30, 2007 2:51 am

Well I figured that there had to be at least one...

The only negative I've heard from ex-jonsies that I've met is the lack of camraderie.  Some miss the fraternal atmosphere at Jones, but universally, they've told me that on balance, they have more job satisfaction than they had at Jones.  They like the robust platforms vs. what they had, their clients like what their new B/Ds bring to the table.  Granted, I've only spoken with a few, but enough to feel that the former Jonsie that wants to go back would be the exception to the rule.

No one ever said that independence is for everyone.  It's a do-it-yourself world and if you need a lot of hand-holding, it mat not be for you. It sure seems to be the path of choice for a lot of Jonsies, though.

May 7, 2007 9:39 pm

To heck with pay, there is no Regional Meetings going Indy.    What of bunch of brainwash . 

Aug 2, 2007 5:03 am

How quickly can the process of getting onboard with LPL be done, assuming clean U4, above minimum production, etc?

Aug 2, 2007 9:11 am

LPL has regional/local Branch Development people (recruiter types) that can

answer that question and have a vested interest in making it happen. I

would go to LPL’s website and track down someone…but I think they can

make it happen within a reasonably short period (30 days maybe).