[quote=executivejock]

Interesting thread.

I see the points in both sides, but favor puts views. I look back at my careers and realize that there were times when I did not have the the knowledge or contacts to kick some butts in the security field. Also it seems to takes a few years for ones circle of influence to develope into solid investors. People who could potentially buy securites and make you some commissions.

Now without sales experience and any network of potential customers the odds are in favor of failure.

I do think reguardless of age it takes failure for one to get the valuable experience to succeed. So if a young man or woman with a clear goal and strong mentor gives it their all the chance of success is fair at best.

Now at the same time what mentor is going to hire a young man, with no sales experience and limited (if any) established network? I would not and I am not that experienced.

I have always thought I was a solid networker. I think there is a skill to it. Join organizations where you can learn from leaders and network. Examples are Toastmasters, Fire Depts, Reserve forces, Lions Club, Rotary Club, sports club or a investment club. My point is you have to be diverse and flexible.

Maybe I am wrong, but I think the chance of success with a limited sales exp, networking skills and personal development beyond college is low... Maybe this is why 9 out of 10 fail after a year.? OF COURSE NOT IMPOSSIBLE.

[quote=SaySo]



Put could have said, “no, I don’t want to help you.” Which is fine,
it’s a right he has. He could have said that the odds are against me
which is fine, because I KNOW they are. But to say that I WILL FAIL,
based on 3 days’ worth of writing from me, doesn’t make sense.



[/quote]



Three days of reading SaySo posts and thirty some odd years of
experience.  I have said that you have four strikes against
you–young, no experience, no network, and a naturalized citizen if a
citizen at all.



The way it works is this–young people can make it if they have a network.  Nothing else helps.



You can be as amibitious as anybody–you can make phone calls till
you’re blue in the face–but at the end of the day you’re still going
to find that adults don’t think of you as an adult, and the money is
controlled by adults.



Another HUGE liability you’re going to have is what I asume is going to
be an accent.  Even if you conjugate verbs correctly people on the
other end of the phone are judging you, “Sounds Young!”, "They’re a
Negro, "  “She’s a woman,” "He’s not an American."



In order to open an account you’re going to have to find somebody who
doesn’t care that you don’t know your ass from your elbow when it comes
to life experiences, who doesn’t care that you cannot drop the name of
a single person they know as a referal, who doesn’t care that you sound
like your giving a canned sales pitch, and who doesn’t care that you’re
not an American at a time when America is at war with much of the rest
of the world.



What part of you’re the textbook example of failure can you not grasp?

[quote=SaySo]

[quote=executivejock]

Interesting thread.

I see the points in both sides, but favor puts views. I look back at my careers and realize that there were times when I did not have the the knowledge or contacts to kick some butts in the security field. Also it seems to takes a few years for ones circle of influence to develope into solid investors. People who could potentially buy securites and make you some commissions.

Now without sales experience and any network of potential customers the odds are in favor of failure.

I do think reguardless of age it takes failure for one to get the valuable experience to succeed. So if a young man or woman with a clear goal and strong mentor gives it their all the chance of success is fair at best.

Now at the same time what mentor is going to hire a young man, with no sales experience and limited (if any) established network? I would not and I am not that experienced.

I have always thought I was a solid networker. I think there is a skill to it. Join organizations where you can learn from leaders and network. Examples are Toastmasters, Fire Depts, Reserve forces, Lions Club, Rotary Club, sports club or a investment club. My point is you have to be diverse and flexible.

Maybe I am wrong, but I think the chance of success with a limited sales exp, networking skills and personal development beyond college is low... Maybe this is why 9 out of 10 fail after a year.? OF COURSE NOT IMPOSSIBLE.

[quote=joedabrkr]



I hate to tell you, but the reason you’re getting so many offers is
that most of the ‘major’ firms are having a hard time filling all their
seats, especially at the entry level.  Their training programs
have a success rate of less than 50% two years out, and so they keep
spitting out failed producers, who leave behind empty desks and a small
book(er pamphlet) of orphan clients.



That’s why they have to keep hiring, to replace those whom have
failed.  That’s why you’ve gotten so many offers.  That, and
the fact that maybe you’re a well above average candidate.



If you’re going to take the leap, find a successful mentor who is
willing to help you.  Don’t count on your firm’s training or your
peers to help you get by.

[/quote]



Joe, you’ve been around a wirehouse.  Have you ever heard of firms
running background checks BEFORE a job offer is accepted?



This is an interesting business in that you cannot practice it unless
you’re licenensed and you cannot get licensed immediately–so if
somebody comes along who you want offer them the job, then check them
out.  If they don’t check out they haven’t gotten licensed yet
anyway so all you’ve done is invest a few bucks in their rookie base.



My point is this.  I am convinced that SaySo is severely
misreading the tea leaves–it’s like a pimple faced kid who smiles at
the prettiest girl in school and she smiles back.  He goes home
that night convinced that she is wanting to have sex with him because
she did not tell him to phuck off.



Also drawing upon your wirehoues experience.  Do you disagree with
me that there is a critical age where the elusive “credibility” happens
and unless you’re there you’re pissing into the wind to even attempt
the business?  As I write this it occurs to me that you’re a
wirehouse failure, and the chief reason may be because you started too
young.  So I guess I’ll not know if you agree or not–but you
should.



Drawing upon your experience.  Do you think that people listen to
you on the phone and make instananeous decisions?  Do you think a
foreign accent is a positive when prospecting?



Gotta go, Putete and a honey do deal.  But not to worry I’ll be back.

[quote=joedabrkr]

[quote=SaySo]

[quote=executivejock]

Interesting thread.

I see the points in both sides, but favor puts views. I look back at my careers and realize that there were times when I did not have the the knowledge or contacts to kick some butts in the security field. Also it seems to takes a few years for ones circle of influence to develope into solid investors. People who could potentially buy securites and make you some commissions.

Now without sales experience and any network of potential customers the odds are in favor of failure.

I do think reguardless of age it takes failure for one to get the valuable experience to succeed. So if a young man or woman with a clear goal and strong mentor gives it their all the chance of success is fair at best.

Now at the same time what mentor is going to hire a young man, with no sales experience and limited (if any) established network? I would not and I am not that experienced.

I have always thought I was a solid networker. I think there is a skill to it. Join organizations where you can learn from leaders and network. Examples are Toastmasters, Fire Depts, Reserve forces, Lions Club, Rotary Club, sports club or a investment club. My point is you have to be diverse and flexible.

Maybe I am wrong, but I think the chance of success with a limited sales exp, networking skills and personal development beyond college is low... Maybe this is why 9 out of 10 fail after a year.? OF COURSE NOT IMPOSSIBLE.

[quote=Put Trader]

[quote=SaySo]



Put could have said, “no, I don’t want to help you.” Which is fine,
it’s a right he has. He could have said that the odds are against me
which is fine, because I KNOW they are. But to say that I WILL FAIL,
based on 3 days’ worth of writing from me, doesn’t make sense.



[/quote]


Another HUGE liability you’re going to have is what I asume is going to
be an accent.  Even if you conjugate verbs correctly people on the
other end of the phone are judging you, “Sounds Young!”, "They’re a
Negro, "  “She’s a woman,” “He’s not an American.”



[/quote]



Thanks again for your interest Put.



Do you think there’s place for a niche FA? For the growing Hispanic market, for example? Or small and mid-size minority niche?



Does it make a difference between MS or AGE for a young candidate?

[quote=SaySo]


Thanks again for your interest Put.



Do you think there’s place for a niche FA? For the growing Hispanic market, for example? Or small and mid-size minority niche?



Does it make a difference between MS or AGE for a young candidate?



[/quote]



I believe that minorities who succeed are prone to seeking opportunities to not consider themselves to be minorities.



In other words, I believe that a foreign born doctor is so proud of
himself that he will want to expand on how well he is fitting into the
general population that he will seek out native Americans as his
accountant, lawyer, insurance agent and stockbroker.



I believe that Hispanics who refuse to speak English are not the ones
who have investable assets–so the abilty to speak Spanish is not a
skill that transfers to Wall Street.  Again, it would to
insurance, but nto to Wall Street.



You might be able to get an amigo to realize that he needs life
insurance to take care of his family–but you’re not going to convince
him that he needs to do more than that.



Go back to basic financial planning–the financial pyramid. 
What’s at the bottom?  Insurance–the most basic of basics. 
That’s all that the most people can afford–especially
miinorties.  Why in the world a Negro or other minority decides to
bypass that incredibly logical, and natural market, and attempt to play
with the upper crust is amazing and amusing.



This country has been caught up in a frenzy of diversity.  Merrill
Lynch actually has a diversity department.  It’s insane, but it’s
there.



OK so let’s diversify Wall Street.  We could do it by hiring more minorities and women–done.



We could also do it by enticing more minorities to become our
customers.  Well, how are we going to do that when they don’t have
enough income to pay for the basics such as life insurance?



Again, do not make the mistake of thinking that selling life insurance
is the same thing as selling securities–one is a bare minimum and the
other is out of reach except for about 10% of the population.



Within that 10% you find that every 1,000 people break down to 990
white people with college educations, 2 white people without college
educations, 2 Negroes with college educations, two Asians regardless of
education.  The other four are a hodgepodge of immigrants who work
hard.



If you’re one of the four immigrants who work hard that’s great–but
work hard at making the money yourself rather than a salesman trying to
convince them to let you invest it for them–they’re going to want to
get a natural born American for that.



SaySo–you said that you graduated Summa Cum Laude.  I’ll start by
expressing my doubts–but cyberspace is a wonderful place and you might
be.



If you are why in the world are you not out there getting a real job
instead of seeking to become a peddler, albeit it a high class peddler?

[quote=Put Trader]

***Snipped Negativity, Bigotry, and Racism***

If you are why in the world are you not out there getting a real job instead of seeking to become a peddler, albeit it a high class peddler? [/quote]

Maybe he wants to achieve more in life that you did, puttyndacrack.

[quote=Put Trader]

[quote=SaySo]


Thanks again for your interest Put.



Do you think there’s place for a niche FA? For the growing Hispanic market, for example? Or small and mid-size minority niche?



Does it make a difference between MS or AGE for a young candidate?



[/quote]



I believe that minorities who succeed are prone to seeking opportunities to not consider themselves to be minorities.

[/quote]

So you’re saying that because an immigrant succeeds he will shun away
from other minorities; in essence ‘begging’ a white broker to accept
his money? Hardly plausible.

[quote=Put Trader]

In other words, I believe that a foreign born doctor is so proud of
himself that he will want to expand on how well he is fitting into the
general population that he will seek out native Americans as his
accountant, lawyer, insurance agent and stockbroker.

[/quote]



Millions of immigrants can only wish it was that easy to "blen into"
the general population. I have an acquaintance who owns a 7-Eleven
store (worth over 500K). He makes a decent 6 figure income, but even if
he tried, he wouldn’t fit into the “general population”, he would still
be an “outsider”, a “damn immigrant!”

[quote=Put Trader]

I believe that Hispanics who refuse to speak English are not the ones
who have investable assets–so the abilty to speak Spanish is not a
skill that transfers to Wall Street.  Again, it would to
insurance, but nto to Wall Street.



[/quote]



I beg to differ. Cuban-Americans are among the wealthiest communities
in NJ, and they won’t do business with anyone looking down on them for
choosing to speak whatever language they want.



[/quote]

[quote=Put Trader]

Why in the world a Negro or other minority decides to
bypass that incredibly logical, and natural market, and attempt to play
with the upper crust is amazing and amusing.

[/quote]



So the “upper crust” is a “whites only” club? Are we still in the 50’s?

[quote=Put Trader]



This country has been caught up in a frenzy of diversity.  Merrill
Lynch actually has a diversity department.  It’s insane, but it’s
there.

[/quote]



Could it be that Merril Lynch knows something Put doesn’t?

[quote=Put Trader]
Well, how are we going to do that when they [immigrants] don’t have
enough income to pay for the basics such as life insurance?

[/quote]

Put, do all whites have enough to pay for those basics? Isn’t this a more socio-economic, rather than ethnic, phenomenon?

[quote=Put Trader]
Within that 10% you find that every 1,000 people break down to 990
white people with college educations, 2 white people without college
educations, 2 Negroes with college educations, two Asians regardless of
education.  The other four are a hodgepodge of immigrants who work
hard.

[/quote]

Are these numbers based on US Census? or Put Census?

[quote=Put Trader]
SaySo–you said that you graduated Summa Cum Laude.  I’ll start by
expressing my doubts–but cyberspace is a wonderful place and you might
be.

[/quote]



Not that I need to prove it to anybody, but my GPA was 3.9, from a well known state university.

[quote=Put Trader]

If you are why in the world are you not out there getting a real job
instead of seeking to become a peddler, albeit it a high class peddler?

[/quote]



You don’t seem proud of your profession. Do you wish you could go back
and start over again with a “real job” (whatever that means)?

[quote=SaySo]

So you’re saying that because an immigrant succeeds he will shun away
from other minorities; in essence ‘begging’ a white broker to accept
his money? Hardly plausible.



[/quote]



Nobody has to “beg” a broker to accept their account.  My thesis
is that the immigrants who excel are inclined to want to be considered
an American, not a hyphenated American.



They will look upon others with a wary eye.  In your case, you’re a mere child who has been in the country for a few years.



What in the world could you know abut the confusing world of Wall Street?

[quote=SaySo]

[quote=Put Trader]
Well, how are we going to do that when they [immigrants] don’t have
enough income to pay for the basics such as life insurance?

[/quote]



Put, do all whites have enough to pay for those basics? Isn’t this a more socio-economic, rather than ethnic, phenomenon?

[/quote]



Of course not, I thought you said you had a 3.9 GPA.



But there are very very few immigrants in this country who have been
able to grab the brass ring and have disposable income as a result.



There is a sizeable Cuban population in this country–but what portion
of them are able to invest?  How about buying life insurance, what
portion of them do you think have enough money to buy life insurance?



Why would you think that you’re going to be able to succeed by appraoching such a miniscule portion of the population?



I don’t think you’re Cuban–I’m not sure if you’re even Hispanic–but
whatever country you are from has a certain number of fellow
immigrants.  They need, and can afford, dozens and dozens of
things that are higher on their “I want” list than mutual funds.

[quote=Put Trader]But there are very very few immigrants in this country who have been able to grab the brass ring and have disposable income as a result.[/quote]

First, you need to have your hand on said brass ring to be able to discuss how one gets to the top. You're still deep down in the valley, wishing you owned some binoculars to spot the rest of us on our trek.

Again, puttyndacrack is ignorant of history. This nation was built by immigrants.

People who arrive newly on our shores, as a rule, do better than the natives (Souce: Stanley, Danko), when it comes to first generation affluence.

Perhaps this is why you are a bigot -- pathetic, neurotic jealousy of those immigrants that do better than you.

Do you think there's place for a niche FA? For the growing Hispanic market, for example? Or small and mid-size minority niche?

Yes, there is definitely a niche market.  I know one woman broker in the SF Bay area who deals almost exclusively with Chinese clientele.  She does very very well because she can communicate with her clients, especially the older ones who don't speak English. She is the same ethnicity as them and they trust her. She, on the other hand speaks English fluently, having been born and raised here and can connect with non ethnic clients as well.

As to your age being a factor, I  have to agree somewhat with Put (but not completely). A young person can make it in securities, but it is very tough.  Older clients, who generally are the larger investors, will not be as comfortable with a 20 something, more comforatable with a 30 something, and very willing to do business with a 40 something.  I changed from a banking career to securities when I was in my low 30's.  I feel that I am the perfect age right now.  Old enough to be an authority figure to the younger clients, old enough to be able to relate to my older clients and a contemporary of every one else.  

It would be a shame to see a talented and eager young broker get burned out because he tried to run before he could walk.

Another suggestion for Say So is to become a bank broker.  Get your feet wet, build relationships with clients and build a network of connections in a more friendly environment.  Do this for a few years,  then when you have suitable experience and maturity, transition to a wirehouse or other platform.

Best of luck to you.

[quote=babbling looney]As to your age being a factor, I  have to agree somewhat with Put (but not completely). A young person can make it in securities, but it is very tough.  Older clients, who generally are the larger investors, will not be as comfortable with a 20 something, more comforatable with a 30 something, and very willing to do business with a 40 something.  I changed from a banking career to securities when I was in my low 30's.  I feel that I am the perfect age right now.  Old enough to be an authority figure to the younger clients, old enough to be able to relate to my older clients and a contemporary of every one else.   [/quote]

Age is only a factor if the advisor is trying to do everything on their own. If they work with mentors - veterans that have been around a while - this negates the age factor.

I started selling securities when I was 22, and I closed six figure rollovers my first month (one client was 55, the other was 61), even without a mentor. Once I paired up with a veteran, I was off to the races.

I remember my first six figure ticket. I had just sold health insurance to the guys wife. The husband was retiring from Asplundh that month, and had $479,000 in his 401(k). It had been less than two weeks since I passed my Series 6 & 63 (the 7, 24, 26, 65 came later).

He asked me if I dealt with investments, I said yes. He then asked me what I would do with that lump sum. I asked half a dozen questions, and made a recommendation, drawing 6 circles on a legal pad (essentially, DCA from a GNMA fund into 5 other funds that covered varous asset classes), to show him a picture. To put things in perspective, at the time I did this, many QPs only had 3-5 funds to choose from, he only had three.

I'd never made this presentation, only seen it done one time, by one of my managers.

It's one of those moments where the ability to recall what someone had drawn and said came in handy, because at the time, I really had no idea what I was doing.

He looked at what I drew, looked at me, then went over to his desk and picked up a box of papers. From it, he pulled several binders, a few stapled reports, and more literature than anyone would want to read, from all the major wirehouses and several local firms.

He says to me "This is what I've received from everyone else I've talked to. Nobody ever drew me a picture, much less explained to me what they meant in terms I can understand. All they give me are these printouts and reports, with fancy charts with words I don't understand. What you said makes sense. When can I come to your office?"

I pulled out my daytimer, made the appointment.

Two days later, he arrived at the office, met my manager, completed the paper work, and the process began. That's when I learned that it can take 90 days for a rollover (when you're young, you want immediate gratification, and I'll admit, I had spent the commissions in my mind while I was driving home from my appointment that day).

One of the problems with judgemental heuristics is that many people make the systematic error "Since I did not (or could not) do it, then others will not (or can't) do it, either."

That's an argument that is all to easily dismissed, especially by those that HAVE done it.

Would someone please pat this D!ckwad on the back so he goes away!!!  What a loser!!!  This guy just reeks of polyester!!!

[quote=BlahBlahBlah]

Would someone please pat this D!ckwad on the back so he goes away!!!  What a loser!!!  This guy just reeks of polyester!!!

[/quote]

Putty doesn't have anything else to do, so he's going to be around until somebody runs over his carcass and puts and end to it.

[quote=Roger Thornhill][quote=BlahBlahBlah]

Would someone please pat this D!ckwad on the back so he goes away!!!  What a loser!!!  This guy just reeks of polyester!!!

[/quote]

Putty doesn't have anything else to do, so he's going to be around until somebody runs over his carcass and puts and end to it.

[/quote]

I was talking about you Thornhill!!!

[quote=Put Trader]

[quote=SaySo]

[quote=Put Trader]
Well, how are we going to do that when they [immigrants] don’t have
enough income to pay for the basics such as life insurance?

[/quote]



Put, do all whites have enough to pay for those basics? Isn’t this a more socio-economic, rather than ethnic, phenomenon?

[/quote]



Of course not, I thought you said you had a 3.9 GPA.

[/quote]



You mean to say income is directly related to ethnic background?

[quote=Put Trader]



But there are very very few immigrants in this country who have been
able to grab the brass ring and have disposable income as a result.

[/quote]



Following your “only 10% of the population can invest” (which  may
be right), all that’s needed is 10% of immigrants on that same
position.

[quote=Put Trader]



There is a sizeable Cuban population in this country–but what portion
of them are able to invest?  How about buying life insurance, what
portion of them do you think have enough money to buy life insurance?

[/quote]



That was an example. How about Mexicans (are they ALL day-laborers?)

[quote=Put Trader]



Why would you think that you’re going to be able to succeed by appraoching such a miniscule portion of the population?

[/quote]



I think niche is the way to go.

[quote=Put Trader]



I don’t think you’re Cuban–I’m not sure if you’re even Hispanic–but
whatever country you are from has a certain number of fellow
immigrants.  They need, and can afford, dozens and dozens of
things that are higher on their “I want” list than mutual funds.

[/quote]



I’m not Cuban or Hispanic. But unlike many, I have a profound respect
for their culture, language, and financial needs. Why can’t (or
shouldn’t) they be able to plan their kids’ college education, or
retirement?

[quote=babbling looney]

Do you think there’s place for a niche FA? For the growing Hispanic market, for example? Or small and mid-size minority niche?

Yes, there is definitely a niche market.  I know one woman broker in the SF Bay area who deals almost exclusively with Chinese clientele.  She does very very well because she can communicate with her clients, especially the older ones who don't speak English.

[/quote]
Thank you.

As to your age being a factor, I  have to agree somewhat with Put (but not completely). A young person can make it in securities, but it is very tough. 

[/quote]

Thank you for the advice. I also think it's very hard to succeed when you're in your 20's. But I think I can bring something to the table that a 30-something may not: hunger and humility.

I also worry about getting burned at a wirehouse (MS) and loosing faith in the business. I wonder if starting at a regional firm, with a respected training program (AGE) would make more sense.

Any thoughts?

[quote=babbling looney]

It would be a shame to see a talented and eager young broker get burned out because he tried to run before he could walk.