[quote=william1]

"Every sales cold call breaks the Golden Rule, period.  A person who occupies someone else's time for the purpose of pitching a product is not treating their time and privacy with the same respect he would have for himself."

This was interesting:

"Certain ploys undoubtedly are unethical, if not illegal. One popular trick? “You know those fish bowls at restaurants where if you put your business card in you can win a free lunch?” asks Stan Grubman, of Corporate Contacts, a cold-call listing service based in Silver Spring, Md. “Well, brokers steal those cards.”

http://registeredrep.com/mag/finance_cold_calling_ice/

The unethical and the unethical.

[/quote]

I also read the article ... rolling eyes. The only things I can deduct are you, and the author of the article, are not in a sales position & are probably not to the task. The author’s stats are way off as well. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Best of luck whatever you do.

Everyone that thinks cold calling is fine, post your phone numbers below and I'll give them out to tons of sales organizations.

Bottom line, people hate sales calls. We all know it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8-MUE9_l2sA

Bottom line, people hate sales calls. We all know it.

I hate paying my taxes too, that doesn't make collecting taxes illegal or unethical.

(Well actually, I think it is unethical to take my money against my will and spend it on things I don't approve of....but that's another story )

william1…

1 - how should i rake in the money without cold-calling

2 - it seems that everyone on this forum hates you

3 - MS seemed great, they run a tight ship. good people too.

"I have to ask you what is an ethical way to prospect? "

Put up flyers. Do a radio show. Give seminars. Set up a website. If someone wants to call you, they will. Do not contact people directly: Don't bother people. In fact, Vanguard never cold calls. They never put out fishbowls or work their natural market. People call them! No need to prospect.

[quote=william1]

"I have to ask you what is an ethical way to prospect? "

Put up flyers. Do a radio show. Give seminars. Set up a website. If someone wants to call you, they will. Do not contact people directly: Don't bother people. In fact, Vanguard never cold calls. They never put out fishbowls or work their natural market. People call them! No need to prospect.

[/quote]

Great business plan. Its a business, stupid!

Vanguard never cold calls

Yes they do. They are all over my television set, magazines where I don't want to see advertising and on pop ups on my computer screen.

I recently paid a death claim to a young woman with two children.  Her husband had no desire to meet with me when I COLD CALLED him.  Fortunately, I was able to get the appointment.  Do you think that the $1,000,000 might make a difference in their lives? 

Especially on the insurance side of the business, people don't do what needs to be done on their own.  I sell several insurance policies every week.  Less than 5% are from someone contacting me.  

The work that I do is too important to be handled reactively.  Can you name a single insurance company that follows the Vanguard no-load lead and has a competetive product?  The answer is none. 

I contact people.  They are grownups.  They can tell me "no" if they don't want to meet.  They can add themselves to the "do not call" list if they don't want anybody to call them at home.

"Gee, little willie...what are YOUR qualifications?"

This isn't about me, although I seem to be all you can think about. This is about the fact that the vast majority of financial advisors are hurting their clients. I'm just trying to clean up some of the messes by telling peple what they are paying in fees and how to use Morningstar and that they can do their own investing. YOU should be telling them about the fees they are paying and the truth about their returns, but I guess it slips your mind.

But you know that - you just attack me to deflect attention from yourself - and you're the problem, not me.

Again: "the BCT study found that the raw returns of equally weighted mutual funds (net of all expenses) for 1996 to 2002 were 6.626% for the investors working on their own and were 2.924% for funds provided by advisors.

In other words, the public working on its own did more than 100% better than financial advisors when it came to selecting equity mutual funds. After factoring in inflation and taxes, clients of financial advisors lost money and lost purchasing power. This must change."

That's about YOU. You are the ones hurting your clients. Don't you care? Can you only hurl childish insults at me? Forget me. Learn to do your job. Stop hurting your clients.

I don't see any phone numbers out here. And, I ignore arbitrary stories with no proof.

And, it seems some people have no idea what cold calling is:

Definition

The ethically questionable practice by full-service brokers of making unsolicited phone calls to people they don't know in order to attract new business.

http://www.investorwords.com/926/cold_calling.html

[quote=william1]

Everyone that thinks cold calling is fine, post your phone numbers below and I'll give them out to tons of sales organizations.

Bottom line, people hate sales calls. We all know it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8-MUE9_l2sA

[/quote]

I like to receive cold calls.  I try to pick up on techniques that work, and avoid things that suck.  I'm sure if you worked hard enough, you could find my number.  Go for it.

[quote=william1]“Gee, little willie…what are YOUR qualifications?”

This isn't about me, although I seem to be all you can think about. I'm sorry...when you enter a registered rep forum and attack the entire industry as bad, it IS about you and what your qualifications to pass judgement on us are.  This is about the fact that the vast majority of financial advisors are hurting their clients. News flash...NOBODY has EVER accused me of hurting them and I'm sick of you tarring the entire industry with the same brush.  I'm just trying to clean up some of the messes by telling peple what they are paying in fees and how to use Morningstar and that they can do their own investing. Oh please...you were wronged by an advisor, so you're lashing out at the entire industry.  Let's call a spade, a spade.  YOU should be telling them about the fees they are paying and the truth about their returns, but I guess it slips your mind. You have no idea what I tell my clients and frankly, you're the last person I'd accept that advice from.  The fact that you assume you know what I do and don't tell them just makes you look foolish.

But you know that - you just attack me to deflect attention from yourself - and you're the problem, not me. That's a matter of opinion, and frankly, I see amateurs such as yourself masquerading as financial advisors having much more potential to do damage than a rep in this industry, that at least has an E&O policy to make a client whole when a mistake is made or a wrong is committed.

Again: "the BCT study found that the raw returns of equally weighted mutual funds (net of all expenses) for 1996 to 2002 were 6.626% for the investors working on their own and were 2.924% for funds provided by advisors.

In other words, the public working on its own did more than 100% better than financial advisors when it came to selecting equity mutual funds. After factoring in inflation and taxes, clients of financial advisors lost money and lost purchasing power. This must change."  Your numbers don't even approach the reality of how my clients have done.  Just ask thet client who made money with my recomendations in 2000-2002 while his buddy lost 70% of his retirement fund investing on his own with Janus...and getting completely out of the market in the fall of 2002.

That's about YOU. No, by insisting on pushing your agenda here, you've made it about YOU.  As long as you continue to do so, you can expect me here to counterbalance your propaganda.  You have zero credibility with me and I suspect many others here.  You are the ones hurting your clients. No, I think you are by recommending indexing which guarantees your "clients" will underperform the market.  Don't you care? I do care.  That is why I will not let your ridiculous claims stand unopposed.  Can you only hurl childish insults at me? Oh please...did I hurt your feelings?   Forget me. I'd like to, but you insist on continuing to litter this forum with your agenda-serving propaganda.  Learn to do your job. 18 years, CFP/CPA, 90+ on series 7 & 65...I think I have a better grasp of the fundamentals than you'll ever dream of having.  Stop hurting your clients. I never started...I have a clear conscience.

I don't see any phone numbers out here. That's because I put my number on the DNC list...have you even heard of this?  And, I ignore arbitrary stories with no proof.  Just like I ignore arbitrary studies designed to "prove" an agenda.

And, it seems some people have no idea what cold calling is:

Definition

The ethically questionable practice by full-service brokers of making unsolicited phone calls to people they don't know in order to attract new business.

http://www.investorwords.com/926/cold_calling.html

...and who's definition is that?  It's obviously filled with opinion.  Who determines that the practice is "ethically questionable"?  How does the author know that the target is unknown by the broker?  Is this practice really only done by "full-service brokers"?  Please...there's nothing objective about that definition.[/quote]

Keep posting, but understand...there will always be people here to keep you honest.

"I'm sorry...when you enter a registered rep forum and attack the entire industry as bad, it IS about you and what your qualifications to pass judgement on us are. "

I've backed up my judgements with proof. That's what you forget.

"News flash...NOBODY has EVER accused me of hurting them "

I have. The study does. Your actions only confirm.

"Oh please...you were wronged by an advisor,"

I was not. I know enough not to let that happen. But I have seen plenty of other people wronged and I can think. I suggest you read DAToo's posts very carefully.

"You have no idea what I tell my clients"

Based on your actions here, studies, articles, my experience... I have a pretty good idea.

"That's a matter of opinion,"

Not. I've watched you do it over and over and over.

"I see amateurs such as yourself masquerading as financial advisors"

I am not. You are though.

"Your numbers don't even approach the reality of how my clients have done.  "

I have no interest in BS.

"No, by insisting on pushing your agenda here, you've made it about YOU.  "

Only if you have no interest in how you hurt your clients and have no motivation to do a better job. Then yes, you'll make it about me. Not the study, not the articles...just me.

"No, I think you are by recommending indexing which guarantees your "clients" will underperform the market. "

And guarantees they will outperform the vast number of FAs.

"You have zero credibility with me and I suspect many others here."

It's the study and the articles you should be taking a hard look at. That you attack me gives you zero credibility.

"I do care."

You care about being a salesman. You don't care about proper investing principles. You don't care that you hurt your clients...badly.

"18 years, CFP/CPA, 90+ on series 7 & 65...I think I have a better grasp of the fundamentals than you'll ever dream of having."

If you did you would never make this statement: ""No, I think you are by recommending indexing which guarantees your "clients" will underperform the market. "

"Just like I ignore arbitrary studies designed to "prove" an agenda."

And here you have completely exposed yourself.

Again: "the BCT study found that the raw returns of equally weighted mutual funds (net of all expenses) for 1996 to 2002 were 6.626% for the investors working on their own and were 2.924% for funds provided by advisors.

Again with the obnoxious fonts:  but you know, little willy, that would be a really cool study and even somewhat pertinent,  if it were that all we did were mutual funds.  You have been told over and over and given numerous examples of the other services and investments that we provide that are not "equally weighted mutual funds (net of all expenses)"  ....do dah do dah ....cut and paste until the cows come home.

Yet, you refuse to acknowledge that the investment portfolios we provide are complex and ever changing and that the needs of our clients are unique from person to person; often comprising portfolios that require constant monitoring and adjustments throughout the years.   

All that I can conclude from your supposedly exalted debating style and your elevated status as a teacher (cough cough.. don't make me laugh) is that you are a single minded moron. 

Have fun with that.

Oh and how about that cold calling?    Vanguard cold calls me every time they shove an advertisement into my personal space.  It's the same thing.....they just have more bucks to be able to do it with impunity and I can't put them on the 'do not call list' since they are ubiquitous.

So sad to be so inept for an "educator".   Your students and  their parents should demand a refund.

Wilma, told you the Killer Bunny attack would be next, didn't I!

http://images.google.com/images?q=Killer+Bunny&hl=en&amp ;um=1&sa=X&oi=images&ct=title

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg&feature=PlayL ist&p=5B8076005F1C5BCF&index=14

No ordinary rabbit.  Look at the boooones.!

[quote=william1]

"I'm sorry...when you enter a registered rep forum and attack the entire industry as bad, it IS about you and what your qualifications to pass judgement on us are. "

I've backed up my judgements with proof. That's what you forget.

No, you've backed your judgements with an agenda-serving "study" that doesn't even appraoch the reality of what I've seen over the years in this industry.

"News flash...NOBODY has EVER accused me of hurting them "

I have. The study does. Your actions only confirm.

Your accusations carry no weight with me as you have not the slightest clue how I manage accounts.  Neither does your "study", and I'd like to know what actions you're referring to...calling a troll a troll has no bearing on how I manage client investments

"Oh please...you were wronged by an advisor,"

I was not. I know enough not to let that happen. But I have seen plenty of other people wronged and I can think. I suggest you read DAToo's posts very carefully.

You can deny who you are, but you've been labled.  Parroting an agenda-serving study does not constitute thinking.

"You have no idea what I tell my clients"

Based on your actions here, studies, articles, my experience... I have a pretty good idea.

Once again, based on your accusations, you have no idea...that's obvious.

"That's a matter of opinion,"

Not. I've watched you do it over and over and over.

...oh really?!!!  That would require you to have an intimate knowledge of both me and my clients.  You're sounding more and more ridiculous all the time.

"I see amateurs such as yourself masquerading as financial advisors"

I am not. You are though.

 I's that all you've got?!!  "I know you are, but what am I?!!"

I'll gladly stand my credentials, education and experience agsinst yours...want to?

"Your numbers don't even approach the reality of how my clients have done.  "

I have no interest in BS.

Really?!!  You sure post enough of it for having no interest in it...

"No, by insisting on pushing your agenda here, you've made it about YOU.  "

Only if you have no interest in how you hurt your clients and have no motivation to do a better job. Then yes, you'll make it about me. Not the study, not the articles...just me.

It's about you because you insist on tarring the entire industry with one brush.  I'm doing just fine by my clients and thus, I take issue with you making accusations to the contrary.  My motivation is client first.  Your motivation is simply revenge against the industry becaue of a bad experience.

"No, I think you are by recommending indexing which guarantees your "clients" will underperform the market. "

And guarantees they will outperform the vast number of FAs.

You know, I'm responsible for me and my clients and I'd be embarrassed to consistently underperform the indexes.  I can't help you with the Primerica and Thrivent reps...if I had my way, many of them would be out of the industry also.

"You have zero credibility with me and I suspect many others here."

It's the study and the articles you should be taking a hard look at. That you attack me gives you zero credibility.

I've seen your "study" and I take issue with your generalizations.  If you want to say theer are some bad apples in the industry, that's not news.  Lumping us all together is irresposible.  I'll let those who read this diatribe determine who has credibility.  You won't convince me that you have any as long as you continue to put us all in the same box.  You might as well say that all black people are lazy, all asians are bad drivers and all jews cheat people.  That is simply irresponsible and I won't sit here and take it.

"I do care."

You care about being a salesman. You don't care about proper investing principles. You don't care that you hurt your clients...badly.

I think you're the one trying to do the sales job and I'm not buying.  As to how I care for my clients, you'd have to ask them, but sadly, you have no idea who they are, so again, your personal attack has no merit.

"18 years, CFP/CPA, 90+ on series 7 & 65...I think I have a better grasp of the fundamentals than you'll ever dream of having."

If you did you would never make this statement: ""No, I think you are by recommending indexing which guarantees your "clients" will underperform the market. "

Sure I would.  I just did and I stand by it.  If I didn't care about my clients, I'd just index and be done with it.  Why work harder to do the best possible job for my clients?

"Just like I ignore arbitrary studies designed to "prove" an agenda."

And here you have completely exposed yourself.

...with every post, you expose more and more of your hateful, anti-advisor agenda.  I'm simply here to provide the other side of the story.  Excellent advisors do exist...they simply refuse to work with amateurs who think they know more than a good professional.[/quote]

Go ahead and post your hateful ill-informed agenda.  I'll be back to provide more counterbalance after I take care of some client paperwork and research.

I won't go away and I won't stop exposing your "truth" for what it is...pure agenda-serving propaganda.

who's red, who's black?

indyone has been very rude many times and also bashed, bullied poor Nancy as I vaguely recall; however, he does make some points about not over-generalizing about "everyone" in the industry, Wilma, if I may add a moderator comment here.  There are some good fa's as you well know.  You have to remember that being an fa is their means of livelihood.

You were a prior manager at amex.  Would you have wanted someone to convince amex (at the time--that all managers are worthless: fire them all? Dispense with the career field of manager!  (Nope:  only, maybe 50% of them were worthless, bad bosses, assholes and the like.  :-) 

[quote=GGGR]

Wilma

You were a prior manager at amex. 

[/quote]

That explains the stupidity and hostility, so poor Wilma couldnt cut it and it just eats her alive that the rest of us can.  Maybe if she'd have done her homework here (can't anymore cause thanks to you there is no useful info) she might have picked a better firm or platform that doesn't screw the clients.  Then poor macca might not be so bitter.

Other than the flyers (just seems tacky) all of those are good ideas.  But all of those ideas are used by very unethical people also.  I'm sure you see on the news when a bunch of seniors get fleeced by someone they met on a seminar, or an advisor who has a radio show and burns clients.

FWIW, the firm that catches much of your ire, Ameriprise, doesn't cold call anymore.  They work the fishbowls and natural market.  I find those two activities more questionable than cold calling, but neither is unethical.

[quote=william1]

"I have to ask you what is an ethical way to prospect? "

Put up flyers. Do a radio show. Give seminars. Set up a website. If someone wants to call you, they will. Do not contact people directly: Don't bother people. In fact, Vanguard never cold calls. They never put out fishbowls or work their natural market. People call them! No need to prospect.

They work the fishbowls and natural market.  I find those two activities more questionable than cold calling, but neither is unethical.

What's questionable about working one's natural market?