http://info.med.yale.edu/chldstdy/plomdevelop/genetics/99jun gen.htm

The problem with that link is that the line on this forum only holds a
limited number of characters and puts a space where one does not belong.



Close the space at the end so it reads…/99jungen.htm

[quote=Watcher][QUOTE]

http://info.med.yale.edu/chldstdy/plomdevelop/genetics/99jun gen.htm



Intelligence is largely heritable.



[/quote]



Dude, please start posting links that work.[/quote]



I DON’T put the spaces in the links.  This website does.  When I copied the link into the window, it was fine. 



Take the spaces out.  Or here, I’ve shortened the link.  It goes to the same website as above.



http://tinyurl.com/buaqj

[quote=inquisitive]

[quote=Watcher][QUOTE]

http://info.med.yale.edu/chldstdy/plomdevelop/genetics/99jun gen.htm



Intelligence is largely heritable.



[/quote]



Dude, please start posting links that work.[/quote]



I DON’T put the spaces in the links.  This website does.  When I copied the link into the window, it was fine. 



Take the spaces out.  Or here, I’ve shortened the link.  It goes to the same website as above.



http://tinyurl.com/buaqj

[/quote]



By the way, that’s what came up high in the results when I Googled for intelligence + genetic.  Or something like that.

[quote=inquisitive] [quote=stanwbrown]

One of your studies said;

"It wasn't socioeconomics, school funding, or racism, that accounted for the students' poor academic performance; it was their own attitudes, and those of their parents."

And another states;

" The (black student achievement) gap cannot be easily explained. Contrary to what might be expected, Meredith Phillips and her colleagues suggest in The Black-White Test Score Gap that parents' income differences by themselves have almost no effect on children's test scores. Rather, they urge us to look further back in a child's family tree."

And you conclude with; AHHH!  Look back at the family tree.  Maybe because intelligence is genetic and tends to run in families?

Notice neither of your studies said "genetic", they said "attitude", but you confused the two. Is that because you don't know any better?

[/quote]

They don't say genetic because that would be "politcally incorrect". 
[/quote]

You might want to actually READ your sources before you use them as support. They both fail to use the term "genetic" because they BOTH don't believe it's genetic. Basic reading skills would have shown you where BOTH specifically say they don't support that view.

Gee, is the inability to read your own sources genetic?

[quote=inquisitive]
Look at how some people are jumping all over Put Trader because of what he said. 

[/quote]

LOL, well using the term "the negro", defending racist hiring policies and claiming most blacks in America aren't smart enough to graduate from High School will get you some attention....

[quote=inquisitive]

 Further, I also provided an article that discusses how researchers have discovered that the brain, portions of which are responsible for cognitive processing, are genetically differentiated and heritable.

[/quote]

Well, that's the finally authority for me....

[quote=inquisitive]
If from that statement you can't conclude that genetics play a large role in intelligence, then there isn't much help for you.
[/quote]

How should I feel about the fact that your latest source is directly contradicted by your first two? Does that mean the matter's closed? LOL

[quote=inquisitive]

If you wanted to quickly Google for some information, you could.  You don't want to because you don't want your view of the world to be upset by the facts. 

[/quote]

Again, your newest source is contradicted, specifically, by your first two. Tell me again how the "world view" is established on this matter?

[quote=stanwbrown][quote=inquisitive] [quote=stanwbrown]

One of your studies said;

"It wasn't socioeconomics, school funding, or racism, that accounted for the students' poor academic performance; it was their own attitudes, and those of their parents."

And another states;

" The (black student achievement) gap cannot be easily explained. Contrary to what might be expected, Meredith Phillips and her colleagues suggest in The Black-White Test Score Gap that parents' income differences by themselves have almost no effect on children's test scores. Rather, they urge us to look further back in a child's family tree."

And you conclude with; AHHH!  Look back at the family tree.  Maybe because intelligence is genetic and tends to run in families?

Notice neither of your studies said "genetic", they said "attitude", but you confused the two. Is that because you don't know any better?

[/quote]

They don't say genetic because that would be "politcally incorrect". 
[/quote]

You might want to actually READ your sources before you use them as support. They both fail to use the term "genetic" because they BOTH don't believe it's genetic. Basic reading skills would have shown you where BOTH specifically say they don't support that view.

Gee, is the inability to read your own sources genetic?

[/quote]

If all the available excuses for poor black adacemic performance are refuted (poverty, racism, etc.), what other possible cause could there be other than genetics?

What happened to the Harvard president when he suggested that males may inherently be better than females at math?

It's politically charged!  Could you imagine the flack a scientist would endure from people like you if he proved conclusively that one group of people was doomed to a life of sub-standard intelligence because of their genetic makeup?

Also, if a columnist or author of a report offers his or her opinion that it is something not supported by the data that is causing the poor performance of black students, it is just that:  their opinion. 

Most sensible people look at the data and draw conclusions from it.  Those who offer opinions based upon that which they wish to be true are not offering fact.

You are going to have a hard time finding any scientist who is willing to say on the record that there are racial differences in intelligence due to genetics even if it is supported by the data because of how politically charged it is.

Not poverty.  Not racism.  Poor attitudes on the part of black students?  Even the ones who aspire to college, medical school, those who want to go to college are going to have poor attitudes that keep them from their goals? 

No.  Not everyone has poor attitudes.  You'll find plenty of college-bound black kids who don't have poor attitudes and who actually work very hard on their school work.  Yet they still don't perform as well.

If you cared to look, you'd find that black medical and law students have grades far below their white classmates.  Not only that, but black students fail the board exams at a much higher rate--as one would expect.

Now, do these med and law school students who have already graduated from college have poor attitudes?  Or is it something else like genetics to blame for their lower performance?

[quote=stanwbrown]

[quote=inquisitive]
Look at how some people are jumping all over Put Trader because of what he said. 

[/quote]

LOL, well using the term "the negro", defending racist hiring policies and claiming most blacks in America aren't smart enough to graduate from High School will get you some attention....

[/quote]

"Negro" is a spanish word for "black".  African-Americans, or whatever you want to call them, are still described as black, aren't they? 

And as far as defending racist hiring policies, is that what he is doing?  Or is he just stating the obvious that blacks have a much more difficult time in the business and it is statistically sound to hire a non-black given a limited number of seats?  (By the way, I do not agree with discrimination of any kind, or blanket discrimination.  I'm just saying I understand what he's saying and why he's saying it.)

As far as graduating from high school:

http://tinyurl.com/db2kz

"The achievement gap has been a pernicious problem across the country for decades. After shrinking during the 1970s and '80s, it expanded during the 1990s. Nationally, the average reading and math scores of black high school seniors equal those of 8th-grade white students."

This is well known.

Thus most blacks aren't performing at a level that should be required of those graduating from high school, now are they?  No.  They are performing at an 8th grade level.

Google to verify this for yourself.

[quote=inquisitive]

 Further, I also provided an article that discusses how researchers have discovered that the brain, portions of which are responsible for cognitive processing, are genetically differentiated and heritable.

[/quote]

[quote=stanwbrown]

Well, that's the finally authority for me....

[/quote]

There's plenty more where that came from.  Just Google it.

[quote=inquisitive]
If from that statement you can't conclude that genetics play a large role in intelligence, then there isn't much help for you.
[/quote]

[quote=stanwbrown]
How should I feel about the fact that your latest source is directly contradicted by your first two? Does that mean the matter's closed? LOL
[/quote]

There is absolutely no contradiction between the sources I provided.

The first sources refute the bogus claim that poor black performance is due to poverty, racism, or anything else.

The other source provides information to you that our brain composition is dictated by genetics.

If you can't put the pieces together, that's your problem.

[quote=inquisitive]

If you wanted to quickly Google for some information, you could.  You don't want to because you don't want your view of the world to be upset by the facts. 

[/quote]

[quote=stanwbrown]

Again, your newest source is contradicted, specifically, by your first two. Tell me again how the "world view" is established on this matter?

Now, do these med and law school students who have already graduated
from college have poor attitudes?  Or is it something else like
genetics to blame for their lower performance?



At one of the world’s premier wirehouses female sales assistants,
normally without a degree and often in the role of single mother, pass
the Series 7 exam in greater percentages than black male college
graduates.



These are just plain old facts.  They do not paint a pretty picture, but reality is often not at all pretty.



If “games” such as I described in a previous comment were not played
with black new hires and their experience with Series 7 there would be
virtually none of them in the business.  At the huge wirehouses
those who know the facts can count on one hand the number of Negroes
who passed their exams on the first try.



As for the use of the word Negro–if it’s good enough for the United Negro College Fund it’s good enough for me.



You know, it’s damn difficult to keep up with the term-du-jour anyway.  When I was growing up there were Negroes.



Then one day some Negroes decided that they needed ot change their
image so they became “Coloreds” as in The National Association of
Colored People–that was good for a few years but eventually Coloreds
started getting a bad image so it was time to change.



They became “Blacks” as in “Black is Beautiful” and “Black
Power!”  That didn’t last long–mostly because there was a lot of
anger in the “Black” movement–so they changed again.  They became
"Afro Americans."



That was fine for awhile, but then hair styles changed and the "Afros"
had to go and so did Afro-Americans–so they became “African
Americans.”  On a Meet The Press one of the “leaders” was asked,
“What part of Africa are you from?” and the leader responded "Detroit."



All of a sudden the term African American became a punch line in a joke so it was time to change yet again.



Enter “People of Color”–which has lasted a few years now.  It is
possible to be truly politically correct by writing a sentence such as,
"People of color gathered at the House of White to meet the
President.  While there they enjoyed wine of red and nibbled on
some chees of bleu. 



One of these days society will get tired of the people of color and in
order to deflect criticism a new name will be adopted–maybe they’ll go
back to Negro, it’s an age old word that was perfectly acceptable to
generations of Negroes.

"There is absolutely no contradiction between the sources I provided."

Read them. Your first two sources say, specifically, that there has been no evidence of a link to genetics. Does this line look familiar?<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 "Jencks and Phillips, however, point out in The Black-White Test Score Gap that "despite endless speculation, no one has found genetic evidence indicating that blacks have less innate intellectual ability than whites."

They blame the attitudes of parents towards education for their children's academic performance. IOW, if it isn’t important in the kid’s home, it won’t be important to them in the classroom.

Your third source blames genetic differences.

You really should read your own sources....

 "Jencks and Phillips, however, point out in The Black-White Test Score Gap
that "despite endless speculation, no one has found genetic evidence
indicating that blacks have less innate intellectual ability than
whites."



Nobody–as in NO BODY–has ever looked for the link. Finding it would be too explosive.



Back in the 1930s most of the world’s best and brightest were involved in studies to prove exactly things like that.



Then the Nazis became involved in their experiments with Jews and the
world was so repulsed by their activities that organizations such as
the United Nations swore off continued studies.



It has only been in the last decade or so that the human gnome has been
mapped–and even that stopped short.  They claim to know about 99%
of the genetic markers and their relationships with each other.



Does it not make sense that the reason they don’t acknowledge 100% is because the 1% is where all the explosive truths are?



There are countless studies of suburban schools that reveal that Negro
kids lag behind whites who lag behind Asians–in order to buy the
argument that it’s environmental and nurturing one has to buy into a
belief that blacks who live in suburban subdivisions are not telling
their kids to study, and that the kids are not able to grasp the
concept of homework, and that the kids are not able to grasp the idea
that the white kids are scoring better on tests and that it might just
have something to do with the fact that they’re studying.



Stan, are you prepared to tell us that the Negro kids at the most
upscale suburban high school in the country are not being made aware of
the importance of doing the work?

 "Jencks and Phillips, however, point out in The Black-White Test Score Gap that "despite endless speculation, no one has found genetic evidence indicating that blacks have less innate intellectual ability than whites."

Nobody--as in NO BODY--has ever looked for the link. Finding it would be too explosive.

Hmm, I can believe your assertions or take the words of the researchers mentioned above who wrote in a peer reviewed professional journal. Let me take a sec as I consider which source seems more reliable….. LOL<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

"Jencks and Phillips, however, point out in The Black-White Test Score Gap
that "despite endless speculation, no one has found genetic evidence
indicating that blacks have less innate intellectual ability than
whites."

Nobody–as in NO BODY–has ever looked for the link. Finding it would be too explosive.

Hmm, I can believe your assertions or take the words of the researchers mentioned above who wrote in a peer reviewed professional journal. Let me take a sec as I consider which source seems more reliable….. LOL

Read it carefully moron.  Despite endless speculation nobody has found a link.  How about, despite endless searching or some other word that would indicate anything other than speculation?

Does it make sense to you that everything on God's earth except intelligence, is controlled by our genetic code?

Suppose there’s a stretch of lonely road outside of town.



Every day somebody observes that there are telltale signs of drag racing out there–you know, burned rubber on the roadway.



There is endless speculation that the kids in town are out there drag
racing but nobody has ever caught them doing it because the sheriff
just doesn’t go out there to see.



In my world the fact that there is burned rubber on the road is enough
evidence–but not in Stan’s.  In his world unless the sheriff
finds the drag racing it does not exist.



It’s good that people like Stan are there–so that we have a gauge on just how dumb some people are.

[quote=stanwbrown]

“There is absolutely no contradiction between the sources I provided.”

Read them. Your first two sources say, specifically, that there has been no evidence of a link to genetics. Does this line look familiar?

 "Jencks and Phillips, however, point out in The Black-White Test Score Gap that "despite endless speculation, no one has found genetic evidence indicating that blacks have less innate intellectual ability than whites."

[/quote]

It says they haven't found a link.  Because they weren't looking for one.

What other possible reasons could there be?

[quote=stanwbrown]

They blame the attitudes of parents towards education for their children's academic performance. IOW, if it isn’t important in the kid’s home, it won’t be important to them in the classroom.

[/quote]

So you think that education is unimportant in the homes of affluent blacks who've attended graduate school like those mentioned in the "Shaker Heights" article?

Convenient excuses.  Nothing more.  "Racism, poverty, bad weather, poor attitudes"--everything is to blame but the people themselves, huh?

Is that the way it works?

"Oh sorry I screwed up that trade and cost the branch $5000.  Racism is to blame."

Sure, sure.

[quote=stanwbrown]

Your third source blames genetic differences.

You really should read your own sources....
[/quote]

Again, I did read them.  Nothing contradicts.  You don't find something if you aren't looking for it or if you refuse to see it.

One question for you, Stan:

How come black students perform significantly behind their white and asian peers in other countries like Canada and Great Britain?

UK, blacks underperform:

http://www.blink.org.uk/bm/manifesto_section.asp?catid=20

"The gap between African-Caribbean boys' educational attainment and that of their White counterparts is ever widening. Just 27.3% 1 of Black Caribbean boys gain GCSE grades A-C, compared to the national average of 52.3%. While overall GCSE results are improving year on year, the same is not true for Black boys. Although there have been some examples of huge improvement (Tower Hamlets for Example) attainment of Pakistani and Bangladeshi pupils is also a major cause for concern. This pattern of failure destroys life-chances and perpetuates generational unemployment. In some neighbourhoods twice as many Black youth are in prison than university."

This is no different than what we see on our side of the Atlantic.  What's the common thread between these separated black populations?  Genetics.

(Canadian educational statistics cannot be found on Google.)

I think you have been brainwashed.

This this the absolute last post I'm going to make on anything racial because I am NOT a racist and if I ever have the opportunity to hire a black person who is the best person for the job I will gladly do it.  I believe in judging people for the individuals they are and not on the color of their skin.  However, if you want me to pretend that there are no differences between different groups of people I'm not going to do it because the data clearly indicates that there are.

Convenient excuses.  Nothing more.  “Racism, poverty, bad
weather, poor attitudes”–everything is to blame but the people
themselves, huh?









Don’t forget breakfast.  We all know that black tenth graders read
at a second grade level because they didn’t have bacon and  eggs
on the morning they took the test.

[quote=inquisitive]

This this the absolute last post I’m going to make on anything
racial because I am NOT a racist and if I ever have the opportunity to
hire a black person who is the best person for the job I will gladly do
it.  I believe in judging people for the individuals they are and
not on the color of their skin.  However, if you want me to
pretend that there are no differences between different groups of
people I’m not going to do it because the data clearly indicates that
there are.

[/quote]



Just one more post I guess.  I want to say how thankful I am for
all the black soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting for America and
putting their lives at risk so we can keep our homeland peaceful and
free from terrorism.

Just one more post I guess.  I want to say how thankful I am for
all the black soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting for America and
putting their lives at risk so we can keep our homeland peaceful and
free from terrorism.







Please, numbnuts, don’t bother to rerspond to inquisitive by posting
some drivel about Iraq and Afghanistan not having anythinig to do with
terrrorism.



That argument is as vapid as your points of view regarding race.

No one ever did a study?  Go to the library and check out "The Bell Curve".  Quite controversial in the early 90's.

This whole argument is QUITE arcane.  Are you honestly suggesting that in this age of demographic studies that if suddenly someone discovered 7% of the population that hadn't been prospected to death some BOM wouldn't have found the natural affinity brokers and hired them?  Hell, I know a broker that works with exotic dancers!  And you're suggesting that it's racism (or sexism or homophobia) that keeps brokerages from going after the various races, genders, or sexual orientations?  Why, if brokerages are "racist" organizations, do the wire houses recruit so heavily for Spanish speaking brokers and support staff for South Florida?

Put trader did u just say that black pple like to “nibble on cheese”??



Pure ignorance. By the way … check ur DNA … I wouldnt be surprised if u had some “negro” in you!

[quote=mrsobama]Put trader did u just say that black pple like to “nibble on cheese”??



Pure ignorance. By the way … check ur DNA … I wouldnt be surprised if u had some “negro” in you![/quote]

So are you so stupid that you don’t realize you’re resurrecting a 2 1/2 year old thread dominated by someone who is no longer on this board?

Or is this merely another attempt to boost your post count so your not so obvious as a returning troll?

Which is it?

[quote=joedabrkr]

[quote=mrsobama]Put trader did u just say that black pple like to “nibble on cheese”??



Pure ignorance. By the way … check ur DNA … I wouldnt be surprised if u had some “negro” in you![/quote]So are you so stupid that you don’t realize you’re resurrecting a 2 1/2 year old thread dominated by someone who is no longer on this board?Or is this merely another attempt to boost your post count so your not so obvious as a returning troll?Which is it?[/quote]



And how was I supposed to know they are no longer on this board? I’m sure they still LURK!