I work for EDJ and to me, the kool aid tastes good.  I think you should interview with other firms as well.  AG Edwards is a good company to talk to.  I would NOT recommend starting as an independent and heres why.  Most brokers, regardless of firm, do not make it in this business.  I believe you need a firm to show you the ropes.  Once you have “made it” then going independent is a more real option.  You can make a very good living doing this, espcially after 5 years, but realize the first 2-3 years you probably will not, and need to lean on your other incomes hard.

All you need is 25k a year for income. What do you really WANT to do?

Sail, fish, sing in a barber shop quartet, travel? I would try the consulting

civilian route to earn my 25k a year and live like no one else. We saw

your income, how about expenses. Turn over paying for college to the

kids, downsize into a smaller empty nest and do whatever the hell you

want. If you have a burning passion for financial advising… well go look

for firms, banks, partners who will assist you in getting CFP licensed and

be a part time advisor and not salesman and not worry about market

performance and stock jockeying. CFPs can create plans, which would be

a good fit for an engineer. Stay behind the scenes and find a good face

man so you can work on a laptop in the Bahamas. This sounds far

fetched, but if you live in STL, which I suspect you do, it’s a big enough

city for you to find just that.

Hi Bubblehead,

What you have to remember about this group is that you have underwear that is older than most of the kids who are spouting off, and those who are a bit older are, on balance, are angry.  Not all of them, but most of them.

I'm a retired upper middle management type who also discovered the forum with Google and enjoy reading what amounts to drivel, while poking some of the blowhards with my cane.

I'm sixty one, MBA, joined a wirehouse in 1971 following playing soldier, as was customary in those days.

One of my best friends was playing sailor at that time and ended up with two stars and lots of those stripes on his coat.  He did exactly what you're talking about doing, transitioned into one of the companies that he dealt with in his military life.  He has now retired again and divides his time between a ranch in Texas and an apartment in London.  Tough life, but somebody has to do it.

I'd say stay with Uncle until they invite you to check out, then reevaluate your decisions.

Naturally the safe way to go would be to become the guy who calls on your successor--the good old revolving door.  And I have to admit that taking the safe route, while not exotic is normally the best idea.  We never know what the future holds.

On the other hand, if you have an entrepreneurial streak, and buying a (eg) Subway franchise does not hold appeal, there are few careers as interesting as being a Wall Street type.

Jones is nowhere near as bad as the whiners on this forum would have you believe. Remember, they failed there and it's 100% human nature to blame somebody else.  There's a guy who failed at UBS, if you can imagine, and he too blames somebody else.  In his case he blames middle managers such as me, as if we were out to sabatoge him.  Yep, that's a plan--layers of middle managers working against the sales force.  But when you're failing at sales, and a joke as a management candidate what can you do except rail against the darkness.

You will be EXCEPTIONALLY attractive to anybody, at any type of firm. We like the discipline of a military officer, we like the fact that you have buddies with money to invest, we like that you are already financially secure and won't be worried about the mortgage payment, we like the fact that you're old enough to have credibilty.  I've seen thousands of new hires come and go.  I cannot think of a single retired military officer who left because he was shown the door.

You mentioned the idea of being able to set your own schedule as a benefit--and it is.  However, NEVER say that in an interview.  When you're talking to somebody who has the power to hire you you are a "lean, mean fighting machine," no wait, that's the marines.  You're a lean mean prospecting machine.

Go on some interviews, see what's out there.  Get an offer or two and turn them down--it will be good for the ego and also give you an idea if the ante can be upped.

You will find that the major firms will be interested in you too--and they will be far more likely to give  you a two year package where you are paid a fairly decent salary while you go about learning your way around the biz.

You're in the cat bird's seat, but even so it's not as safe an option as going to work in the industry you're dealing with now.

I'd be happy to discuss this further in emails if you'd like.

Bub,

I've seen military fail, not because of lack of discipline, but because they didn't know and couldn't learn how to sell.  In particular, one guy thought he was selling in the military because of how persuaded his subordinates were to follow his orders.  Another guy just didn't realize what selling involves.

Remember, whatever you're doing, managing retirement accounts, working capital, etc. in this field, you're selling. 

Read SPIN selling, probably the best sales material I've ever seen.  Next, read Values Based Selling and The Wedge.

It sounds like you really need to consider what it takes to succeed in this field.  Good luck.

Ace

BTW

Okay..so I have nowhere near the background of flood dude, but what he says makes a ton of sense based on what I know about the industry, except the concept of "playing it safe."  Really successful people are usually risk takers and the fact that you will retire with benefits and an adequate income (even if you don't immediately produce) gives you a safety net that can allow you to explore a bit and test your abilities.

I started out in this industry with an independent firm as a support person.  I am now an expert in most areas of investing and many areas of financial planning but I have yet to be successful.  Why?  Because none of the firms I have aligned myself with so far have had good, solid sales training.  

I've worked in sales before and been successful, but it is different when you're talking about your client's future security, and perhaps what I know has been part of my problem because ethics is everything to me and so many of the better sales organizations compromise what I feel is the ethical way to do business.

Still I have come to the conclusion that it may well be the only way I will be successful is to bite the bullet and PAY MY DUES with one of these organizations so I can master the sales process.

You may need to do this too.   As a retired officer with an MBA, they will ALL talk to you, and if you can convince them you can sell, will want you.  You should have many options.  

So I'd recommend, especially since you are in no hurry, that you explore them all.  These boards are great for finding people who have worked for the different firms and you can get an idea of the good and the bad, and sort through the whiners and those that don't really tell you WHY they disliked the firm.

I will admit to being a bit more confused at this point, but I stalled my first offer and I know I will be happier, even if I take it, that I invested the time to really explore other options.

One other idea for you, provided you have the time, start the CFP training program.  Once in you can attend the Financial Planning Association meetings.  You can then say "this is me and this is what I'd like to find" and you may just find an indy firm you love that will take you on and actually mentor.   I've done it and had a couple of interviews with firms I did not choose, but I am going to do it again.

Best of luck.

[quote=Ace Planner]

Bub,

I've seen military fail, not because of lack of discipline, but because they didn't know and couldn't learn how to sell.  In particular, one guy thought he was selling in the military because of how persuaded his subordinates were to follow his orders.  Another guy just didn't realize what selling involves.

Remember, whatever you're doing, managing retirement accounts, working capital, etc. in this field, you're selling. 

Read SPIN selling, probably the best sales material I've ever seen.  Next, read Values Based Selling and The Wedge.

It sounds like you really need to consider what it takes to succeed in this field.  Good luck.

Ace

BTW

[/quote]

Hi Ace,

How old are you?  When did you get registered?  What is your educational background?

Thanks,

Your friend BEF

Is it just me, or does BEFlood have a very similar background and writing style to in the infamous Put Trader? 

[quote=BigLew]I work for EDJ and to me, the kool aid tastes good.  I think you should interview with other firms as well.  AG Edwards is a good company to talk to.  I would NOT recommend starting as an independent and heres why.  Most brokers, regardless of firm, do not make it in this business.  I believe you need a firm to show you the ropes.  Once you have "made it" then going independent is a more real option.  You can make a very good living doing this, espcially after 5 years, but realize the first 2-3 years you probably will not, and need to lean on your other incomes hard.[/quote]

BigLew, I agree that trying to start Indy is not the way to go.  I like the idea of being sponsored, learning the ropes so to speak and then testing the waters after a few years if it looks good.  Thanks for the insight.  Can you tell me how long you have been with EJ?  Thanks Bh

[quote=GoodTimes]All you need is 25k a year for income. What do you really WANT to do?
Sail, fish, sing in a barber shop quartet, travel? I would try the consulting
civilian route to earn my 25k a year and live like no one else. We saw
your income, how about expenses. Turn over paying for college to the
kids, downsize into a smaller empty nest and do whatever the hell you
want. If you have a burning passion for financial advising... well go look
for firms, banks, partners who will assist you in getting CFP licensed and
be a part time advisor and not salesman and not worry about market
performance and stock jockeying. CFPs can create plans, which would be
a good fit for an engineer. Stay behind the scenes and find a good face
man so you can work on a laptop in the Bahamas. This sounds far
fetched, but if you live in STL, which I suspect you do, it's a big enough
city for you to find just that.[/quote]

GT.  I like your style!  Unfortunately I am not ready to start that Quartet yet.  Let me make the nest egg a little bigger, then who knows.  Perhaps I will start my singing career!

[quote=Big Easy Flood]

Hi Bubblehead,

What you have to remember about this group is that you have underwear that is older than most of the kids who are spouting off, and those who are a bit older are, on balance, are angry.  Not all of them, but most of them.

I'm a retired upper middle management type who also discovered the forum with Google and enjoy reading what amounts to drivel, while poking some of the blowhards with my cane.

I'm sixty one, MBA, joined a wirehouse in 1971 following playing soldier, as was customary in those days.

One of my best friends was playing sailor at that time and ended up with two stars and lots of those stripes on his coat.  He did exactly what you're talking about doing, transitioned into one of the companies that he dealt with in his military life.  He has now retired again and divides his time between a ranch in Texas and an apartment in London.  Tough life, but somebody has to do it.

I'd say stay with Uncle until they invite you to check out, then reevaluate your decisions.

Naturally the safe way to go would be to become the guy who calls on your successor--the good old revolving door.  And I have to admit that taking the safe route, while not exotic is normally the best idea.  We never know what the future holds.

On the other hand, if you have an entrepreneurial streak, and buying a (eg) Subway franchise does not hold appeal, there are few careers as interesting as being a Wall Street type.

Jones is nowhere near as bad as the whiners on this forum would have you believe. Remember, they failed there and it's 100% human nature to blame somebody else.  There's a guy who failed at UBS, if you can imagine, and he too blames somebody else.  In his case he blames middle managers such as me, as if we were out to sabatoge him.  Yep, that's a plan--layers of middle managers working against the sales force.  But when you're failing at sales, and a joke as a management candidate what can you do except rail against the darkness.

You will be EXCEPTIONALLY attractive to anybody, at any type of firm. We like the discipline of a military officer, we like the fact that you have buddies with money to invest, we like that you are already financially secure and won't be worried about the mortgage payment, we like the fact that you're old enough to have credibilty.  I've seen thousands of new hires come and go.  I cannot think of a single retired military officer who left because he was shown the door.

You mentioned the idea of being able to set your own schedule as a benefit--and it is.  However, NEVER say that in an interview.  When you're talking to somebody who has the power to hire you you are a "lean, mean fighting machine," no wait, that's the marines.  You're a lean mean prospecting machine.

Go on some interviews, see what's out there.  Get an offer or two and turn them down--it will be good for the ego and also give you an idea if the ante can be upped.

You will find that the major firms will be interested in you too--and they will be far more likely to give  you a two year package where you are paid a fairly decent salary while you go about learning your way around the biz.

You're in the cat bird's seat, but even so it's not as safe an option as going to work in the industry you're dealing with now.

I'd be happy to discuss this further in emails if you'd like.

[/quote]

BEF, thanks for the advice, and the Flattery.  I agree the safe route is predictable and stable.  You may be seeing some PM's from me.  Thanks again.  Let me ponder your advice.

[quote=Ace Planner]

Bub,

I've seen military fail, not because of lack of discipline, but because they didn't know and couldn't learn how to sell.  In particular, one guy thought he was selling in the military because of how persuaded his subordinates were to follow his orders.  Another guy just didn't realize what selling involves.

Remember, whatever you're doing, managing retirement accounts, working capital, etc. in this field, you're selling. 

Read SPIN selling, probably the best sales material I've ever seen.  Next, read Values Based Selling and The Wedge.

It sounds like you really need to consider what it takes to succeed in this field.  Good luck.

Ace

BTW

[/quote]

ACE, I agree with your last statement.  "I really need to consider what it takes to succeed in this field."   Thats why I am here asking for advice.  Hmmmmmm.......  I will pick up the books, thanks.

[quote=lostintexas]

Okay..so I have nowhere near the background of flood dude, but what he says makes a ton of sense based on what I know about the industry, except the concept of "playing it safe."  Really successful people are usually risk takers and the fact that you will retire with benefits and an adequate income (even if you don't immediately produce) gives you a safety net that can allow you to explore a bit and test your abilities.

I started out in this industry with an independent firm as a support person.  I am now an expert in most areas of investing and many areas of financial planning but I have yet to be successful.  Why?  Because none of the firms I have aligned myself with so far have had good, solid sales training.  

I've worked in sales before and been successful, but it is different when you're talking about your client's future security, and perhaps what I know has been part of my problem because ethics is everything to me and so many of the better sales organizations compromise what I feel is the ethical way to do business.

Still I have come to the conclusion that it may well be the only way I will be successful is to bite the bullet and PAY MY DUES with one of these organizations so I can master the sales process.

You may need to do this too.   As a retired officer with an MBA, they will ALL talk to you, and if you can convince them you can sell, will want you.  You should have many options.  

So I'd recommend, especially since you are in no hurry, that you explore them all.  These boards are great for finding people who have worked for the different firms and you can get an idea of the good and the bad, and sort through the whiners and those that don't really tell you WHY they disliked the firm.

I will admit to being a bit more confused at this point, but I stalled my first offer and I know I will be happier, even if I take it, that I invested the time to really explore other options.

One other idea for you, provided you have the time, start the CFP training program.  Once in you can attend the Financial Planning Association meetings.  You can then say "this is me and this is what I'd like to find" and you may just find an indy firm you love that will take you on and actually mentor.   I've done it and had a couple of interviews with firms I did not choose, but I am going to do it again.

Best of luck.

[/quote]

Lost,

 I couldnt agree more with the ethical argument.  I don't want to find myself compromising my values to talk granny into risking/wasting her nest egg in order to get a little bigger commission.  One of the real reasons I want to try this is because I want to help people.  I also feel I cannot sell a product I don't believe in.  Building savings plans for people is something I really believe in.   There are so many people in our country that don't understand the need to save.  I would like to think I can touch some of these people.

I like the CFP idea.  Is it a worthwhile investment of my time?  Where should I start?

[quote=BigLew]I work for EDJ and to me, the kool aid tastes good.  I think you should interview with other firms as well.  AG Edwards is a good company to talk to.  I would NOT recommend starting as an independent and heres why.  Most brokers, regardless of firm, do not make it in this business.  I believe you need a firm to show you the ropes.  Once you have "made it" then going independent is a more real option.  You can make a very good living doing this, espcially after 5 years, but realize the first 2-3 years you probably will not, and need to lean on your other incomes hard.[/quote]

I think this is pretty good advice, and pretty objective for a Jones man .

A big part of the backlash against EDJ is twofold; (1) Those on the outside who see EDJ as, more or less, a firm with about the same amount of warts and positives that many other firms have, but at the same time, a firm that spins itself as much more ethical than other firms, and in fact, took out some infamous ads trumpeting this in the not too distant past.

(2) Those on the inside, both past and present, who feel like the folks at the top of the food chain have been less than truthful with the rank & file about a host of subjects, and engage in a routine and continued effort to "brainwash" reps in an effort to hold defections down by suppressing curiosity about other firms.

Flood may be right in this respect...EDJ is probably not as bad as some on here paint it.  At the same time, the apparent ongoing management/partner efforts to maintain loyalty through questionable (or at best, heavily biased) "information" causes many of us on the outside to really question whether things are as happy in Jonesville as some would like us to believe.  Certainly, you would be wise to look at alternative firms as several have suggested, and I'll second Big Lew's advice to include AG Edwards in your search, as I've seen generally positive things here about them, and know several who work there and love the firm.  Good Luck and thank you for your service...

[quote=Bubblehead][quote=lostintexas]

One other idea for you, provided you have the time, start the CFP training program.  Once in you can attend the Financial Planning Association meetings.  You can then say "this is me and this is what I'd like to find" and you may just find an indy firm you love that will take you on and actually mentor.   I've done it and had a couple of interviews with firms I did not choose, but I am going to do it again.

Best of luck.

[/quote]

Lost,

 I couldnt agree more with the ethical argument.  I don't want to find myself compromising my values to talk granny into risking/wasting her nest egg in order to get a little bigger commission.  One of the real reasons I want to try this is because I want to help people.  I also feel I cannot sell a product I don't believe in.  Building savings plans for people is something I really believe in.   There are so many people in our country that don't understand the need to save.  I would like to think I can touch some of these people.

I like the CFP idea.  Is it a worthwhile investment of my time?  Where should I start?

[/quote]

I think with your MBA all you'd need do is enroll in school to start the process.  There is a requirement that you work in the year 3 years before you sit for the certification exam, but I know that certain college degrees are exempt from that rule and an MBA may be one of them (check the website).  However even if you aren't exempt, the courses (5) typicallly take someone still employed about a year and a half to complete so you'd have time to figure that out.

However all you need do is be enrolled to be part of the FPA, and even if you aren't non-members can attend most of their meetings.

I took mine through American College which I think was one of the first to offer the study and is well respected, however many major universities also offer the courses so you can check locally if you prefer a classroom to a self-study.  There are also fast study, 4 day seminars, but it is my opinion that if you genuinely want to learn something a fast cram is not the way to go.

Anyway, there are plenty of choices and it will prepare you to be a better planner.

Hope that helps

Ah..no edit button..to add to the above, yes, if you wish to be a financial planner and not just a broker or investment manager, it IS worth it.   Not only will you learn important concepts, but the CFP IS the designation best known by consumers and worth the most from a marketing standpoint - instant credibilty.

Especially ironic given there are other designations that are more intensive, CHFC encompassing all the CFP and doubling it!  

[quote=lostintexas]

Especially ironic given there are other designations that are more intensive, CHFC encompassing all the CFP and doubling it!  

[/quote]

I don't think it's fair to say that the ChFC is more intensive, let alone that it is double the CFP.  I am studying for the CFP right now, and have looked at the ChFC as well.  There are six core courses that can be applied towards both designations.  Where they differ is in what you have to do once you have completed these six courses:  CFP requires that you take a two day, comprehensive, exam, ChFC requires that you take two additional courses in financial and estate planning.

From what others that have jumped through the hoops to get both have told me, the CFP requires more depth of knowledge, because you have to take the two day, comprehensive, exam, and the ChFC requires more breadth of knowledge, because you have to take two additional courses.   

Regardless of which designation you think is better, the thing I have never understood is why there are so many people with just one of the two.  If you have the CFP, you have CE requirements, why not fulfill them by taking the two extra courses required to get the ChFC?  And if you have the ChFC, you are qualified to sit for the CFP exam, why not take one weekend to advance your career?

[quote=Big Easy Flood] What you have to remember about this group is that you have underwear that is older than most of the kids who are spouting off.

I'm sixty one, MBA, joined a wirehouse in 1971 following playing soldier, as was customary in those days.[/quote]

If you joined a wirehouse at 26 (61 now, joined 35 years ago), why do you advise against anyone under 30 joining today.

And if you are really the succesful ex-manager that you claim to be, why can't you afford some new underwear. 

[quote=lawsucks]

If you joined a wirehouse at 26 (61 now, joined 35 years ago), why do you advise against anyone under 30 joining today.

[/quote]

I was hired for all the nonsensical reasons that color such decisions.  The big deal hometown boy that married the daughter of one of the town's better families.

It was a dumb decision to accept the job, but it was a dumber decision to offer it.

When you're not yet thirty you have almost no credibility among older people, and older people are who have the money to invest.

I know, I know--there are rock stars and athletes with lots of money.  They also have advisors who are older people.

The best advice any young person can get is to make coming to Wall Street a job change--even a career change.  Get your degree(s), then get some seasoning.

Go make your mistakes at a place where it won't matter because you're just passing through.  Learn to prospect, try various techniques, learn to use the phone.

Llast night I was walking around an office park and encountered a group of young people taking a break on Sunday night.  They were collectors for GMAC, working the really bad accounts, skip tracing, and the like.  Doing that for a couple of  years can be presented later as developing great phone skills.

When you're under thirty no matter what you say to an adult the adult just smiles and thinks, yep I was once young and full of bullschidt myself.

When you're entering a business that has a HUGE failure rate, why do you not want to be more mature before trying it?

It's as if you're saying, "If I'm going to fail I want to fail when I'm young."

What an odd attitude.  Why not, I want to build my skills when I'm young so that I won't fail.

Your career is a marathon, not a sprint.  There's no need to start with the hardest part before getting warmed up.

Wait till you're thirty and have something on your resume.  All adults look at you like your parents look at you.

The only people who think that 26 year olds are ready for prime time are other 26 year olds.  And they're wrong.

[quote=lawsucks]

Regardless of which designation you think is better, the thing I have never understood is why there are so many people with just one of the two.  If you have the CFP, you have CE requirements, why not fulfill them by taking the two extra courses required to get the ChFC?  And if you have the ChFC, you are qualified to sit for the CFP exam, why not take one weekend to advance your career?

[/quote]

When I started the difference was 5 courses versus 10 that included the first five.  I forgot that the CFP changed to 6 classes and didn't know the exam was any different.

Anyhow my point is that of all the credentials out there (and I suspect some of the senior designations are fluff), the CFP has the most value from a marketing standpoint.  Are there others that may offer more useful info?  Yes and the CHFC is but one.

I do know that when job hunting, they always ask "do you have your CFP?"