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Jun 23, 2008 10:35 pm
nottheone:

Instead of answering the various questions that I have asked though, some would rather judge me and take hits at me regarding my character. It’s cool, I just do not see the need.

  Dude, enough with this sad sap stuff.  We can judge you all we want.  You came on here and asked our opinion.  We're not the ones who have to worry about your character, that's you.    Prato said this earlier.  You and Joe both graduate from college.  You're both young schmucks trying to be a financial advisor at 22.  You both have 3.5 gpa's.  You're the same at everything.  OH YEAH, ONE BIG DIFFERENCE:  YOU'VE BEEN ARRESTED 4 TIMES.  Regardless of the details, innocence or guilt, why would a manager hire you over Joe Blow?   The simple fact you take this discussion or "hits on your character" dawg so personally shows that you don't have the thick skin for this. 
Jun 23, 2008 10:37 pm

[quote=nottheone]

A 4 time victim of my environment and circumstance…

[/quote]


Well being that you dont wanna “go into specifics” on the charges, you are leaving yout situation open to various interpretations.


If one of your friends were busted instead of you Id bet $100 you’d call yourself “lucky” because you didnt get caught. But you got busted so now you just call yourself a victim.


If you burn your hand on a stove, you dont turn around and do it again. You created your own environment friend. If it were a one time thing Id maybe see it your way. But 4 times before the age of 21/22 ?

No buddy, I wouldnt trust you with clients hard earned money and wouldnt touch you if I were a hiring manager.


Jun 23, 2008 10:51 pm

Like I said, its cool. I am not taking it personally at all. It is almost as if you want conflict with me. I said I appreciate your opinion. I also said in my 2nd to last post that I think I have been gracious about some of the assumptions made about
myself (granted I came to you all asking you your opinions).

I am not bothered, I just felt it was unnecessary but do what makes you happy. Who am I to judge?

I understand exactly when given that scenario but rarely are there two people so closely matched like that for the few jobs (because these places hire classes) at a specific branch. One candidate is usually different than the other in some way. Maybe I went in with all the confidence in the world, looking sharp as usual and joe was dressed like a slub and did not know how to talk to people (he actually seemed pretty introverted). What then?

It was never my intention to really get into the details of my situation because I have been around here for a while and I know how things get. I really just wanted an answer which, many times, I have gotten.

Also, I am not an idiot. Everything else being exactly identical, I would hire Joe. My point was to find, at what point do I not look like such a bad candidate?

What if the truth about Joe is that while he has never been arrested, he likes to build bombs or smoke crack in his spare time only he has never gotten caught so he has no record. Now who is the better candidate? Joe, because he is able to hide it so well or myself because while I realize there were some dumb things that happen in the past, they are exactly that, IN THE PAST …as in behind me??

I read it in another post so im going to use it here because it applies:
“Conflict is like a rocking chair, in the end it gets you nowhere” It was something like that.
Point being, write what you would like, but if your what your going to say does not further the discussion, but only to flex your fingers, its probably not necessary and there are better ways to waste your time.

Thanks again!

Jun 23, 2008 10:55 pm

I feel like a broken record…being arrested does not imply guilt…being convicted does!

Jun 23, 2008 11:14 pm

[quote=nottheone]I feel like a broken record…being arrested does not imply guilt…being convicted does!
[/quote]

Were you caught drinking alcohol under the age of 21 ? Yes or no.

Jun 23, 2008 11:19 pm

If I burn my hand on the stove  that is visibly turned on once, my fault. If I am walking next to the stove and there is water on the floor and I slip and try to grab something to stop my fall, I burn my hand on the stove (diff. circumstances-accident perhaps). I am cleaning the kitchen and was told the stove was turned off so I failed to pay additional attention to whether it was on or not and while wiping it down I ignite the sponge or paper towel and I get burned. (that time it was being me being careless or it was me trusting someone when I should have made certain for myself) I tried to think of a fourth scenario but I do not really feel like it. The point is you can make the same mistake more than once and learn your lesson every time and still wind up with the same outcome. I may have been a little careless in my past. Most of the times I got in trouble it was me taking the wrap for someones elses bad behavior. Stupid, I know especially because I shouldn’t have put myself in those situations. (at least I have no criminal record)

I know myself though, which none of you do. I know who I am and being arrested before, while it may speaks volumes to you all, says nothing about who I am. I get defensive (im cool with it but I get defensive) because if you all knew me you would be saying entirely different things. This is however the sentiment of pretty much everyone here so it will be probably be the same sentiment I can expect from someone hiring me who knows as little about myself as you all do. I will just have to work my ass to prove to those who will have the incredible opportunity to hire someone such as myself, it will be well worth their investment.

Thanks for all your time and effort in “guiding me” guys and gal.

Very much appreciated!!

Jun 23, 2008 11:22 pm

Were you caught drinking alcohol under the age of 21 ? Yes or no.
No
They suspected that I was drinking underage…maybe they were right but maybe they weren’t …the charges were dropped. That should be all that matters!

Jun 23, 2008 11:28 pm
nottheone:

So how are you guys doing?
First post so here goes:
I had a really big question. I am trying to get into this industry but was curious how my past might come back to haunt me. Let me hit you all with some background:
       I am 22 and just graduated from college recently with a degree in finance (which I know does not mean much but just giving the details). I have 5 years of sales experience. I also have been arrested 4 times.

Before you all start to tell me how irresponsible I am you should know the details concerning my arrests.

I have been arrested four times for silly college fraternity things like underage drinking, open house party,and 2 disorderly conducts. I have never been convicted on any of these charges because in actuality, I did nothing wrong. The police on our campus had it out for fraternity members and I was the unlucky stool who took the fall. Like I said though, I have never been convicted and all the charges against me have been dropped. I did a diversion program once but besides that I had a solid lawyer. Even though I have never been convicted though, all of these arrests theoretically (because I do not know for certain) would appear on my FBI background check that they do, right? Or is that FBI background check just a ruse to get you to divulge information about yourself? I know on my regular background check nothing comes up because I have already looked. I have a clean criminal background they say.

I am not a liar. I also consider myself a person of honesty and integrity so if asked, I wouldn’t want to lie. I also know how much I want this job and do not want to taint my image by saying too much.

Would a place like Merrill or Smith Barney take me even though I have been arrested before? Normally I would think no, but I believe I have extenuating circumstances (like I did not do anything to really deserve these charges to begin with).

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated

Thanks a ton!!


  Your post interested me so I'll throw in my 2 cents.  icecold gave good advice: you are rather young, try backing into the business and prove yourself as an assistant first and gain some experience.  Or just interview and see if you get hired. The problem here is no time lapse from the stupid mistakes you made when you were young and you're still young...mistakes like this can be forgiven easier after you've matured, say late 20's, early 30's.  You seem like you would make a good lawyer: and that's a better career than being in this biz.   In interviews, mention what happened BRIEFLY, don't elaborate or talk to much about it.  Better yet, have it espounged(sp) from your record and don't mention it.  If it's an arrest and you weren't convicted, I don't think any job application asks if you've ever been arrested: they want to know if you were convicted--therefore, give NO information out and if they do a background check and ask questions, then just plead ignorance that you weren't convicted and for that matter any man can be picked up by the police, thrown in jail and arrested when they did nothing wrong.   Short answer:  Don't mention it: if asked, say I've never been convicted of a crime.  If they push...you don't want to work for a company that is that judgmental.  Everyone makes mistakes, especially when younger.   Lose lips sink Your Ship.  Remember the 5th amendment:  don't speak on the grounds that you will incriminate yourself.  People are very judgmental: anything negative that comes out of your mouth will not put you in a good light.   Interview well and you may not be asked probing questions since they will be sold on you.   Best of luck! 
Jun 23, 2008 11:30 pm

dude, enough with the “i didn’t do anything wrong, it wasn’t really my fault” horsecrap. i’m new to this industry and already i’ve heard so many people make excuses about how their bad situation isn’t their fault. you’re 22. man up, admit that you messed up ( 4 TIMES ), and go out and try your best to get a job. don’t keep feeding us lines that “well the cops just have it out for frat boys, i was just in the wrong place blah blah.” it sounds like you’re looking for approval that you really didn’t do anything wrong when in fact it’s quite obvious that you did. with all the effort you’ve put into proving your innocence here, maybe you could have set up some more interviews now.

Jun 23, 2008 11:33 pm

I was always told I would make a good lawyer too
I guess the fact that I am still considering it may not bode well anyways for the doing this type of career.
Thanks for that tid bit of insight though. I never really though of it like that.
Favorite answer to my question by far charlie

Jun 23, 2008 11:38 pm

[quote=noob15]dude, enough with the “i didn’t do anything wrong, it wasn’t really my fault” horsecrap. i’m new to this industry and already i’ve heard so many people make excuses about how their bad situation isn’t their fault. you’re 22. man up, admit that you messed up ( 4 TIMES ), and go out and try your best to get a job. don’t keep feeding us lines that “well the cops just have it out for frat boys, i was just in the wrong place blah blah.” it sounds like you’re looking for approval that you really didn’t do anything wrong when in fact it’s quite obvious that you did. with all the effort you’ve put into proving your innocence here, maybe you could have set up some more interviews now.[/quote]

Whether I man up or not has no impact on the answer. Im not saying i agree or disagree with your assessment. Just food for thought…

Jun 23, 2008 11:44 pm

Whether you man up or not has impact on your integrity. If you try to weasel your way out of responsibility for your actions, what else will you be dishonest about in the future? If I’m a prospective client of yours and I found out about your past and all you can tell me is, “well it wasn’t ACTUALLY my fault, the cops just hate frat guys, and I was really unlucky,” well you’ve just lost any and all credibility you had. Not a chance in hell you are touching my money. I think most replies on this forum are meant to help you, but at some point you need to realize you screwed up, it WAS your fault one way or another, and if it’s brought up, take responsibility for your actions.

Jun 23, 2008 11:49 pm

[quote=noob15]Whether you man up or not has impact on your integrity. If you try to weasel your way out of responsibility for your actions, what else will you be dishonest about in the future? If I’m a prospective client of yours and I found out about your past and all you can tell me is, “well it wasn’t ACTUALLY my fault, the cops just hate frat guys, and I was really unlucky,” well you’ve just lost any and all credibility you had. Not a chance in hell you are touching my money. I think most replies on this forum are meant to help you, but at some point you need to realize you screwed up, it WAS your fault one way or another, and if it’s brought up, take responsibility for your actions.[/quote]

Fair enough

Jun 24, 2008 12:19 am

[quote=charlie_broker] 

Short answer:  Don't mention it: if asked, say I've never been convicted of a crime.  If they push...you don't want to work for a company that is that judgmental.  Everyone makes mistakes, especially when younger.   Lose lips sink Your Ship.  Remember the 5th amendment:  don't speak on the grounds that you will incriminate yourself.  People are very judgmental: anything negative that comes out of your mouth will not put you in a good light.   Interview well and you may not be asked probing questions since they will be sold on you.   Best of luck! [/quote] Anybody in the business knows that no legit firm will hire you without a background check. And your arrest record will show up. This is bad advice. Follow it and you will seal your fate.   With that said, let me make a suggestion to the group. We have been piling it on. At the very least, the kid gets it - at least gets what we are trying to tell him. Not the one - go for it. See if you can get a position at a wirehouse. If so, we are proved wrong and you are a great closer. If not, just go back to the drawing board, build a track record, and go at it again. Good luck.
Jun 24, 2008 12:34 am
With that said, let me make a suggestion to the group. We have been piling it on. At the very least, the kid gets it - at least gets what we are trying to tell him. Not the one - go for it. See if you can get a position at a wirehouse. If so, we are proved wrong and you are a great closer. If not, just go back to the drawing board, build a track record, and go at it again. Good luck.     FINALLY!
Jun 24, 2008 2:46 am

Well I cant even begin to imagine how authorities could arrest you 4 times and you were innocent everytime. Im not saying your lying but you should turn that into a made for t.v. movie.

Im glad the charges were dropped if you were innocent


Jun 24, 2008 2:48 am

[quote=pratoman][quote=charlie_broker] 

Short answer:  Don't mention it: if asked, say I've never been convicted of a crime.  If they push...you don't want to work for a company that is that judgmental.  Everyone makes mistakes, especially when younger.   Lose lips sink Your Ship.  Remember the 5th amendment:  don't speak on the grounds that you will incriminate yourself.  People are very judgmental: anything negative that comes out of your mouth will not put you in a good light.   Interview well and you may not be asked probing questions since they will be sold on you.   Best of luck! [/quote] Anybody in the business knows that no legit firm will hire you without a background check. And your arrest record will show up. This is bad advice. Follow it and you will seal your fate.  \[/quote]

+1. Not to mention the fact that you have to get fingerprinted etc.

Otherwise "Johnny Bad Boy" could be out there wheeling and dealing with other peoples money.
Jun 24, 2008 3:26 am

First, ignore charlie_broker completely.  The post may have made you feel better, but would end the interview process as soon as the background check came back.  Full disclosure is always the best policy.

  Here are the cons for a 22 yr old without 4 arrests.  Your 22 which in the view of the BM means you do not have an established network.  Big ding.  At 22, you have no work history, another ding.  All things being equal, more people will refuse to work with a 22 yr old than a 50 yr old.  Another ding.  At 22, you are not as mature (didn't say immature) as an older candidate.  Another ding.  These are the things you have to overcome compared to say a 40 yr old when the BM is looking at resumes.  Add to the fact YOU HAVE 4 ARRESTS!!!    You can get hired with a less than perfect past (I did), but considering the whole picture, it would take one heck of an interview IF you could even get that far.
Jun 24, 2008 4:40 am

I think I have only gotten fingerprinted once…not that it matters I guess; the rest of them were more like tickets or citations(notice to appear).
I think I have a large network of people from which I can gather assets from. Not just college students but adults that are very well off. Not that I am relying on them but it sure wouldn’t hurt to help me get started. Besides getting arrested the next thing I did a lot of in college was learn to and successfully network. …not funny but after this conversation a little release does not hurt…

Basically what I have come to realize (actually I think I kind of knew it all along) is that the cards are stacked against me right now. Mostly because of my age but even more so due to my “dubious” past. I have some interviews lined up so I will try and keep you all posted…if you all are interest that is.
I really believed convictions are all that matter…they should be all that matter because one thing Charlie was right about is that cops can pick you up and arrest you for nothing at all (not saying that was or was not the scenario but there is truth in that)

Contrary to what some of you may believe (this is not some sappy victim thing or anything like that) I am really not a bad guy. Shit happens and you have to deal. So I will be doing just that…

Jun 24, 2008 5:39 am

Here’s some first hand experience from ‘some wirehouse guy’ i know
I was arrested twice back in college - once for under age drinking and once for hosting a party.  They were both expunged from my record - I have no idea if they would show up on a background check or not.

Regardless, I never tried to hide this information while interviewing, but of course I didn’t broadcast it either.  It never even really crossed my mind except for a few seconds during the formal paperwork.  The application never even had a spot to list non-securities misdemeanors like that.  If anybody ever asked if I had any kind of record, I wouldn’t even mind telling them the two stories.  They’re nothing I’m ashamed of whatsoever.  We’ve probably all got stories out there.  One of mine was for drinking 2 days before I turned 21 - yeah it was against the law, but so are speeding, jaywalking, and having a GPS attached to your windshield (here in Cali)!  Some times I could’ve sworn that my college town busted students just for the purpose of supplying people to do community service and cut grass in the parks for the summer. 

My attitude about illegal activities is different now, just because I need to keep a squeeky clean reputation.  I still disagree with a LOT of laws, but I also realize that I’ve gotta play by the rules of the game.

Interview - see what happens - it can never hurt to try - keep in mind that there are much more important things than if you got caught being noisy in an apartment a few years ago.

I’m not suggesting at all that you enter this career, but I would just suggest you make your decision based on other factors.