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May 26, 2008 12:23 pm

Well, hon, I didn't think I needed to draw you a picture.

It's both:  The FA should, of course, be responsible (why wouldn't they) (i.g. if they entered the career field, took all of the time to study, etc. etc.) and the person using their services should take into account that the fa is inexperienced, may suck at his job or not be near as good as more experienced fa's and should do their homework (thus, buyer beware) to ensure they found a good fa.  There, more clear, DEAR?    OOPS:  CORRECTION: all three.  The company hiring the fa has an accountability in this, too, as mentioned.  
May 26, 2008 12:45 pm

Megamet, why do you bother to open your mouth on a topic you know nothing about when all you do is insert your foot?  Just because you may feel something in this industry is, or ought to be, a certain way does not make it so.  Grow up.  This is NOT all about you, “hon,” or what you want when you grow up. 

If you want to test out careers and pretend to be something while you’re growing up, experiment with jobs that don’t have the very real danger of screwing up clients’ lives.  


May 26, 2008 1:34 pm

ah, you’re just upset that I’ve made some valid points and all you can do is personally attack me.  The admins here promptly delete entire threads that turn into an “attack fest”.  So shut your piehole and move on.  Whether I’m interested in the career field or not is none of your business and remember boys and girls: Don’t let the “simons” on this site discourage you.  

  And that's all I have to say on this topic.  Attack away if you can't find anything more constructive to do.
May 26, 2008 2:24 pm

[quote=megamonet]ah, you’re just upset that I’ve made some valid points and all you can do is personally attack me.  The admins here promptly delete entire threads that turn into an “attack fest”.  So shut your piehole and move on.  Whether I’m interested in the career field or not is none of your business and remember boys and girls: Don’t let the “simons” on this site discourage you.  

  And that's all I have to say on this topic.  Attack away if you can't find anything more constructive to do.[/quote]
"Shut my piehole?"  Is that one of your "valid points" you mention?

Spoken with all the maturity and intelligence of the child you seem to be. 
May 26, 2008 3:43 pm

[quote=megamonet]

Well, hon, I didn't think I needed to draw you a picture.

It's both:  The FA should, of course, be responsible (why wouldn't they) (i.g. if they entered the career field, took all of the time to study, etc. etc.) and the person using their services should take into account that the fa is inexperienced, may suck at his job or not be near as good as more experienced fa's and should do their homework (thus, buyer beware) to ensure they found a good fa.  There, more clear, DEAR?    OOPS:  CORRECTION: all three.  The company hiring the fa has an accountability in this, too, as mentioned.  [/quote]     Nowhere in your previous posts did you say the FA is responsible.  I do not need a picture drawn, just need you to write what you mean.  This is not an industry you should "try out".  We manage peoples money for God's sake.  Try out selling cars.  Try out flipping burgers.  Do not "try out" managing something as important as someone's retirement.  That is an offensive statement and marginalizes those of us who are "all in" in this  industry.  How exactly are you in this industry Mega, curious to know.
May 26, 2008 3:47 pm

Nevermind found where you posted you work in a call center.  That explains it.  Working in a call center is also a career you can “try out”.  Your posts make much more sense now.

May 29, 2008 3:19 pm
Morphius:

How does your inability to responsibly manage your own money qualify you to manage other people’s money?  

  This guy is a moron!  Bad things happen to good people.  It is not always clear cut as you may think when it come to financial problems and/or credit issues.  Actually the best Investment advisors usually have the worst personal financial issues.  The ability to invest your clients assets in solid investments and get them the returns they need has absolutely NOTHING to do with an advisors personal financial situation.  You must be better than everyone else...A God, Go back to israel.
May 29, 2008 3:39 pm

I actually take the moron part back.   I’m not normally a foul person, sorry.  But I respectfully disagree with Morphius.  No hard feelings

May 29, 2008 4:05 pm

So based on your hostile reaction apparently you can’t manage YOUR money responsibly either, Moneyman? 

Stating the patently obvious hardly makes me a “god.”  If you actually believe the rank foolishness you just spouted, you should be comfortable disclosing this personal failure to your prospects and/or clients, if you are really in the business, and let them decide if what you claim is true. 

May 29, 2008 6:54 pm
Moneyman13:

Actually the best Investment advisors usually have the worst personal financial issues.

  mmmmmm...I'd espectfully disagree with this assertion.  Perhaps some top producers are driven to produce to service a mountain of debt, but I would hardly call such a person a best in class advisor.  I'd bet that a vet like Bond Guy, while having some toys, has little or no debt and a good-size balance in his retirement account.  If an established advisor would make a poor prospect, he/she'd also make a poor advisor in my opinion.
May 30, 2008 1:18 am
Indyone:

[quote=Moneyman13]Actually the best Investment advisors usually have the worst personal financial issues.

  mmmmmm...I'd espectfully disagree with this assertion.  [/quote]
The best investment advisers usually have the worst personal financial issues?!?!  Usually?!?!

B.S.

That's pulled right out from your ass.  Cite one credible source that supports this ridiculous claim.  Just one.

May 30, 2008 5:58 am

I would say that good sales people in general have a habit to overspend as a side effect of the ego.  However, the best investment advisors are fans of discipline and proper planning.  The maturity level needed for the role should be at a level where you pay your bills.

  Trust is very important as an advisor.  When you fail to repay a debt or forget to make your payments on time, that also says "don't rely on me, because I might not do what I say."  
Jun 3, 2008 8:44 pm

In general, most clients would prefer fa’s who are good at managing their own money, too, but not making money at their expense, that is, if they are not looking out for customer’s best interests and EARNING their money.  (If a client got wind of their fa not being good at their own finances (unless they are doing a super job for them), my bet is that they would move on and find another fA.)  But I still stand by the statement: you can still do a good job with opm’s and not necessarily your own.

  Clients probably prefer fa's who follow their own advice...Suzie Orman, for example. (No CC debt.)
Jun 3, 2008 10:03 pm

[quote=Trapper SS]I would say that good sales people in general have a habit to overspend as a side effect of the ego.  However, the best investment advisors are fans of discipline and proper planning.  The maturity level needed for the role should be at a level where you pay your bills.

  Trust is very important as an advisor.  When you fail to repay a debt or forget to make your payments on time, that also says "don't rely on me, because I might not do what I say."  [/quote]   It's been my experience that salesmen who overspend and don't plan for the down spurts don't make it.  So while a majority of salesmen might over spend, I would say a majority of salesmen who 'make it' probably don't overspend.
Jun 4, 2008 6:40 am

[quote=megamonet]

  Clients probably prefer fa's who follow their own advice...Suzie Orman, for example. (No CC debt.)[/quote]

Only an idiot or simpleton would agree with Orman, she has proven time after time she has no clue about estate planning, protection, or investments.
Jun 4, 2008 2:56 pm
Indyone:

[quote=Moneyman13]Actually the best Investment advisors usually have the worst personal financial issues.

  mmmmmm...I'd espectfully disagree with this assertion.  Perhaps some top producers are driven to produce to service a mountain of debt, but I would hardly call such a person a best in class advisor.  I'd bet that a vet like Bond Guy, while having some toys, has little or no debt and a good-size balance in his retirement account.  If an established advisor would make a poor prospect, he/she'd also make a poor advisor in my opinion.[/quote]   Indy, while my financial situation is close to what you discribe I can't say i agree with your conclusion. My view is shaded by the fact that when i started in this biz I probably had the worst credit rating in the history of brokerage trainees. It didn't impede my progress of becoming a top muni bond salesman. In fact it motivated me. This business gave me a way to come back.   Today, I see many excellent financial advisors who have big debt and horrible credit. One such advisor, a million dollar plus advisor is one of the few i would trust my own money to, yet personally, financially he is a train wreck. Another is one of the best stock pickers I've ever seen, yet doesn't have two dimes to his own name. It takes a special talent to blow through almost $400k a year with little or nothing to show for it. Life happens!   For some advisors it's the big lifestyle. Then there's the IRS and matrimony attorneys. For others, its outside business interests that bring them to the brink. And for others it's the front money deal. They take a big check that comes with big taxes attached, the market drops as it did in 01/02, and all of a sudden there's a huge crimp in the cash flow. Production is down and taxes on the front money take a huge chunk of the net leaving the advisor with too much much month and not enough paycheck. From there, the new Jag becomes a cement weight wrapped around the guy's neck. It's ugly.   There are many traps that good advisors can fall into. That they do doesn't mean they are poor advisors, only that they are human. The future is unknowable. What makes sense today can trip an advisor tomorrow. The question of whether or not they are good advisors is answered by the fact that they make big money. Bad advisors don't make big money. They don't make it long enough in the biz for that to happen.    As we do with our clients, we must be careful not to make snap judgements based on a person's credit score. For example, prudent money management standards tell us we need to have enough cash to survive six months without a paycheck. I know one advisor who went almost two years without a paycheck because of a internal fight he was involved with with his company. He had to sit on the sidelines while his lawyers hashed it out and freed him up to move. He completely depleted his savings and by his own admission his credit score went into the tank. I wouldn't call him a poor advisor because he has a low credit score. I'd call him a genius for surviving two years without any income. Yet a snap judgement shows us a loser with a 400 FICO. By the way, he was teamed and his partner ran his business for almost one and a half years.   As for whether a credit score should impact a candidate's consideration, I don't think it should. Most money problems are cash flow problems, not intelligence problems or in many cases not even financial judgement problems. Maybe someone with these types of problems would make a poor credit councellor, but IMO not a poor financial advisor. The people we advise have discretionary income, too much income. It's the opposite problem. My own experience shows me that the two, my personal financial situation, and my ability to advise clients, are disconnected. Other than my financial situation motivating me to work hard one has no bearing on the other. Additionally, having a car repo'd isn't a criminal or moral offense. When my business failed 30 years ago, I had two cars repo'd. It's embarrassing and a problem in that you are left without a vital tool, transportation. But that's as far as it goes. It doesn't make you a bad person, only a carless one. IMO, my financial adversity made me a smarter person and certainly a stronger one. It didn't hurt my motivation either. Money motivated? Yeah, I got that!   Well, that's a long post. Home with the stomach flu  that i tried desperately not to catch over the past week as it tore through my house. When i'm feeling Ok, man am I bored!    
Jun 4, 2008 5:48 pm

Well, BG, I’m not going to dissect and counter every point you made, bacause many of them were good ones and show that there are exceptions to every rule.  In general, I’ll respectfully disagree only to the degree of the assertion.  While your friend may be a great stock picker, I still have a hard time reconciling his personal flaws with his professional skills.  It’s the height of hypocracy to suggest that a client maintain a 6-month cash reserve when you are personally behind on your mortgage.  It’s no different than a doctor coming into the examining room puffing on a cigarette and telling the man in the backless gown that he needs to stop smoking (yes, kiddies, this actually used to happen).  While the doctor may be a fine doctor, on principal, he would come down a couple of notches in my estimation for simply being too foolish to follow his own advice.

  I recall your story and it clearly indicates the need to consider each situation on it's own merits.  I also tried to emphasize that my criticism is mostly on established veterans who still don't have their act together.  I may have an entirely different opinion of your friend if I met him, but just knowing that he's a financial train wreck would cause me to listen to his stock picks, but be a bit skeptical of his overall financial advice since it's obviously not working for him personally.  The way I am wired causes me to lose a lot of respect for people who make a tremendous amount of money and spend every nickel when they're in a business that says they should know better.  Your personal turnaround gives me plenty of personal respect for you and is a template for what SHOULD happen when a person starts making money in this industry.
Jun 5, 2008 2:21 pm
  My post points to the exception to the rule. It says don't judge by this one parameter.   Judging people in our industry by their bank account is problematic. It's a very slippery slope. For those of us recommending equities, and that's most of us, whether in funds or otherwise,  the question isn't whether or not we can pay our mortgages. That's way too low a hoop. It's more like "why do we even have mortgages?" If we are so good at what we do that we can hold ourselves out to give that advice to others, why aren't we multi-millionaires ourselves? The old question "If you are so good at picking investments why are you still working?" becomes a fair question.   Everyone on this board who responded that someone with poor credit has no place in this business did so from perspective that places them above that person financially. Yet, from a true wealth perspective, none of these posters, most likely, is anywhere near the top of the wealth mountain. Using one's own bank account as a guide, how can anyone who is not wealthy advise others on how to become wealthy? Or, if already wealth, how to manage and maintain that wealth? I know it may seem a stretch of logic, but for those who judge our abilty using our own financial wherewithal as a guide, it's legitimate. Most of the people on this board are not wealthy and are themselves one unexpected event from a 400 FICO and late charges on the mortgage. Yet from that perch, one step above survival mode, we can judge others? I can't and i consider myself well above survival mode.   It would take a lot to knock me off the wealth mountain, but I don't take any of that for granted. It could happen tomorrow. So for me, I won't judge.