Alternative Investments

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Aug 7, 2007 11:34 pm

In theory it should be easy to let someone go... But in reality it is difficult to drop someone from the pipe ( "I have spent so much time and effort on her..." " I know that if I get this trade it may pan out for the whole portfolio..", etc, etc)...

The hardest and most mentally draining part of our job is to kid ourselves that the losers will eventually 'see the light' and ACAT everything in...

Aug 8, 2007 7:25 pm

If you didn't work at Jones you could say "We only manage accounts of $1,000,000 or more. I can forward you a client application and then let you know when we are accepting new clients."

That really gets their attention.

Aug 9, 2007 2:37 pm

[quote=EDJ to RIA]

If you didn't work at Jones you could say "We only manage accounts of $1,000,000 or more. I can forward you a client application and then let you know when we are accepting new clients."

That really gets their attention.

[/quote]

I can still say that moron.  My office, my choice.  It has absolutely nothing to do with Jones.    You could try to say it too, but it would be a lie.  I prefer not to start my relationship with someone with a lie.

Aug 9, 2007 2:39 pm

Now that I’ve got that off my chest…I get your point.  At some point there needs to be a account size limit.  No more $10K rollovers.  In the growth stage of a business is not the time to make a statement like that.

Aug 9, 2007 3:12 pm

She's figured out the secret.  Getting a balanced portfolio of mutual funds from a financial advisor is a commodity.  Heck, she's probably figured out that you don't even need an advisor, just buy a strategic allocation fund. 

In order for you to add more value than she's getting from a current advisor, she is now asking you to be a broker and find her an investment that she can't do by herself or her current broker won't do (and no, you don't need to peek at her other investments to do this).  Isn't that what people thought brokers did, find the opportunities?  Alot of savvy HNW people may understand putting 80-90% of their money in a bland balanced portfolio, but for the other 10-20% they want to see you do something to justify your existance.   

Aug 9, 2007 4:18 pm

I believe that's it in a nutshell.  She feels like she got the major bases covered, so my typical services aren't really necessary.  Now she's searching for other ideas.  But, she's looking in so many different areas, I'm just looking for ideas to show her.  She's going to have to shoot a few down in order for me to really be able to figure out what she's looking for.  That's what the original thread was started for. 

I'm not ready to dump her just yet.  It costs me nothing to keep her on my list.  Right now she's not a great prospect and I realize it.  But I've had some people I never thought would do biz with me open accounts and transfer everything in.  We'll see what happens.  

Aug 9, 2007 5:00 pm

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]Now that I've got that off my chest...I get your point.  At some point there needs to be a account size limit.  No more $10K rollovers.  In the growth stage of a business is not the time to make a statement like that. [/quote]

To me it's not so much having a stated minimum (though we do), it's more about having the attitude that I make the decision whether you become my client or not. You can't hire me.

I don't try to overtly do this in a snobby way. I just quickly want to discourage the type who will say "Maybe I'll let you take a look at my stuff sometime." Well, maybe I'll consider letting you be a client of mine sometime. But probably not.

Sorry if that sounds uppity, but I've had my share of disappointments after chasing prospects.

I think it was Don Connelly at one of our meetings who said "People want what they can't have and seek that which eludes them." Or maybe I just made that up...

Aug 9, 2007 5:17 pm

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]

I believe that's it in a nutshell.  She feels like she got the major bases covered, so my typical services aren't really necessary.  Now she's searching for other ideas.  But, she's looking in so many different areas, I'm just looking for ideas to show her.  She's going to have to shoot a few down in order for me to really be able to figure out what she's looking for.  That's what the original thread was started for. 

I'm not ready to dump her just yet.  It costs me nothing to keep her on my list.  Right now she's not a great prospect and I realize it.  But I've had some people I never thought would do biz with me open accounts and transfer everything in.  We'll see what happens.   [/quote]

Well, if we believe ANY studies about HNW folks, they are interested in alternative things, like managed futures, hedge funds, structured notes, etc.

Most likely, she has heard about those and asked her advisors why she's not doing any of them, and they tell her the risk is too great, it doesn't match the investment policy statement she signed, blah blah.  So, she figure she could take a TINY bit if her net worth, and find a guy who WILL sell her stuff like that.

How about covered call writing?  For a lot of folks, that's an ALTERNATIVE investing strategy........

Aug 9, 2007 7:06 pm

Here's an idea for the lady. Ask her if there is any part of her IRA she never plans on touching, or if she has any older annuities she thinks she will never use. If she answers yes, explain to her that her heirs will receive those assets, but have to pay income tax on the gain. Ask her if she would like to give that money to her heirs with no income tax. If she says yes, get her in your office.

If she's insurable, run an immediate annuity quote (life only) on the amount she is going to leave to her heirs. With that number, take out some percentage for taxes, and use the remaining cash to fund a guaranteed UL policy.  Chances are, she can buy a UL policy that will be larger than the qualified money is now, and when she dies, all of it will go to her heirs INCOME TAX FREE.

The total commission from that deal will start your month out right  

If she doesn't like that idea, kick her to the curb.

Aug 9, 2007 7:20 pm

now_indy - I asked her about passing money on the her heirs.  She said wealth transfer means absolutely nothing to her.  I love that concept and have used it a couple of times with some other clients. 

I have to chuckle at the covered call, structured notes, managed futures suggestion.  bluestars80 evidently forgot that I work for Jones.  Selling a stock short is an alternative investment for Jones.

Aug 9, 2007 7:26 pm

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]

now_indy - I asked her about passing money on the her heirs.  She said wealth transfer means absolutely nothing to her.  I love that concept and have used it a couple of times with some other clients. 

I have to chuckle at the covered call, structured notes, managed futures suggestion.  bluestars80 evidently forgot that I work for Jones.  Selling a stock short is an alternative investment for Jones.[/quote]

Jones won't let you do covered call writing?  Man, what CAN you guys do there, besides American Funds?? 

Aug 9, 2007 7:31 pm

Sometimes when someone says that wealth  transfer means nothing, it really means that they don't want to do it if they must sacrifice something.    One way to get to the bottom of this is to ask, "If God came to you on your death bed and said 'Mrs. Jones, I'll give you a choice.  When you die, do you want me to give your kids a check for $200,000 or $2,000,000?'"

There are plenty of ways in which a portfolio can be structured in which will have no effect on the standard of living on the client, but a big effect on the beneficiaries.

Aug 9, 2007 10:13 pm

Spiff-I just left Jones a couple months ago and truly believe you are not going to find anything “new and exciting” for her.  Jones just doesn’t have those things available.  I don’t think it is bad, it is just the company philosophy.  I truly don’t see how much of anything in your product list will be different than what she already has.

Aug 11, 2007 8:02 pm

I’m a noob just out of the gate. BUT I would tell her everything I do is in the context of an asset allocation. 91.5% of all the money made in the market is due to asset allocation. If 91.5% of the money made in the market is because of this where is that money coming from ??????  People that are not using asset allocation. That being said If I cant see the rest of your portfolio and use this $$ to fill in the voids in the context of an allocation I have no choice but to build an allocation model with the $50K

So here is the Target Focus 4 and the Dow Dividend strategy UIT’s lets spread the money out 60/40 in the two trusts and revisit the issue in 15 months.

Sign here.
Aug 11, 2007 9:16 pm

[quote=Gaddock]

So here is the Target Focus 4 and the Dow Dividend strategy UIT’s lets spread the money out 60/40 in the two trusts and revisit the issue in 15 months.

Sign here.[/quote]

How correlated are those UIT's with the general market? Is this really alternative, or just a different and expensive slice of the same pie?

Aug 11, 2007 9:25 pm

[quote=AllREIT][quote=Gaddock]

So here is the Target Focus 4 and the Dow Dividend strategy UIT’s lets spread the money out 60/40 in the two trusts and revisit the issue in 15 months.

Sign here.[/quote]

How correlated are those UIT's with the general market? Is this really alternative, or just a different and expensive slice of the same pie?

[/quote]

Who cares? You get paid by the hour and you're SUPPOSED to hate anything that can't be purchased by the hour. How does it feel to have your income capped at the number of hours that you are billable? Do you fudge on your numbers? Everybody that has an hourly rate is dishonest about their billing time.  

Aug 13, 2007 10:40 pm

Hourly billing is just an easier way to hide your effect on the client's investment returns... and make you feel like you went to law school or something noble.

2 Rip baby

Aug 14, 2007 2:53 pm

[quote=AllREIT][quote=Gaddock]

So here is the Target Focus 4 and the Dow Dividend strategy UIT’s lets spread the money out 60/40 in the two trusts and revisit the issue in 15 months.

Sign here.[/quote]

How correlated are those UIT's with the general market? Is this really alternative, or just a different and expensive slice of the same pie?

[/quote]

Highly correlated is my guess.  I haven't been able to find, or taken the time to create, the R Squared, but it is a stock portfolio that gets reconstituted every 15 months.  It's given good performance, however, so not a bad investment. 

Gaddock, I'm curious why you use the Dow Target Dividend Strategy coupled with the Target 4.  30% of the Target 4 is the Dow Target Dividend Strategy.  So, right off the bat you've got 30% overlap. Great if the strategy is working, but kills you if it's not.  And there will be a time when it's not going to work.  Is this coupling something you suggest to clients all the time?  Don't take that as a knock against you, just curiousity on my part.  

Aug 14, 2007 2:56 pm

[quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=AllREIT][quote=Gaddock]

So here is the Target Focus 4 and the Dow Dividend strategy UIT’s lets spread the money out 60/40 in the two trusts and revisit the issue in 15 months.

Sign here.[/quote]

How correlated are those UIT's with the general market? Is this really alternative, or just a different and expensive slice of the same pie?

[/quote]

Highly correlated is my guess.  I haven't been able to find, or taken the time to create, the R Squared, but it is a stock portfolio that gets reconstituted every 15 months.  It's given good performance, however, so not a bad investment. 

Gaddock, I'm curious why you use the Dow Target Dividend Strategy coupled with the Target 4.  30% of the Target 4 is the Dow Target Dividend Strategy.  So, right off the bat you've got 30% overlap. Great if the strategy is working, but kills you if it's not.  And there will be a time when it's not going to work.  Is this coupling something you suggest to clients all the time?  Don't take that as a knock against you, just curiousity on my part.  

[/quote]

Go to the ftp website and you can play around with different combinations of UIT's.

Aug 15, 2007 12:20 am

Spaceman, Are you with Morgan?  If so, structureds will accomplish what she wants.  Just find the right ones.