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Tale from the Tobacco Road

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Nov 12, 2009 4:50 am

Registered Rep should be a happy place.  Where a man can out windy and Ron can out himself.  Where [email protected] can get fired and still be [email protected] A happy place…

Nov 12, 2009 12:50 pm

[quote=voltmoie]Registered Rep should be a happy place.  Where a man can out windy and Ron can out himself.  Where [email protected] can get fired and still be [email protected] A happy place…
[/quote]

   It’s also a place where someone can call condoning torture happy!!! but I digress…

As for 3rdyrp2, you did clearly break a law, so the police did have the right to stop you. It is the job of all honest police to stop and question anyone who runs a stop sign. Sure, they don’t have to be a d*** about it…but sometimes, that’s their game-face.

In my situation, I got pulled over for “illegal lane change”…they said I drove on the paint. Fake violation, and fake drug-sniffing dog. Just a bunch of crap.

Funny thing…I actually got pulled over once before; guns drawn, get on the ground, put into the squad car, searched my car and all that. Apparently, there was another blue '74 Camaro in the area that just committed a hit and run. I have nothing but the highest respect and admiration for the professionalism of those officers. I was scared s**tless…but they were doing their job investigating a serious crime. 

Nov 12, 2009 2:02 pm

In addition, one of the defendants in the case I’m speaking about (Daniel Patrick Boyd) had plans to, wait for it, “attack military personnel at Camp Lejune”. 

Whether they are al Qaeda or not (which I highly doubt that they are), this is a serious problem. 

In defense of what BondGuy says, this man would not have been pulled out of a line in the airport.  He is a white male, who dresses like a drywall contractor (which he is).  This makes it even more imperative that we are on our guard.

However, information was gathered about him from interrogation of terrorists.

Let me ask everybody something.  If waterboarding one terrorist would save the life of your child, would you be for it?  Or would your ideology kill your son or daughter?


Nov 12, 2009 2:51 pm

How did a thread about police corruption become one about terrorism…I think you are on the wrong thread.

As for the question posed, would you approve of police systematically stopping 1% of all drivers every year, taking them out of their car, patting down their wife’s and daughter’s ass for drugs and emptying the contents of your car on to the road…if it could save one life a year?

Nov 12, 2009 3:05 pm

the thread was about profiling.

and yes, if it was a woman officer doing the patting. 

now, will you answer my question?

Nov 12, 2009 3:44 pm

Police corruption = racial profiling = profiling all Muslims as terrorists = Ft. Hood.  That’s my guess. 

  Waterboarding one known terrorist is a lot different than the police randomly stopping 1% of all drivers every year, patting down women, and emptying my car on the road.  So, yes, waterboard away.  In my opinion, once you have planned or perpetrated an act of terrorism on this country, then you belong to us.  Your rights are hereby terminated.  No mirandizing, no phone call, no attorney, no ACLU, nothing.  We want to force your Muslim butt to stand naked in a room full of women who are eating bacon that's our call.    Now, I'm not calling for WW2 style internment camps, but if you're a Muslim looking male who spends his days hanging around other Muslim looking males in your NYC apartment, you'd better be ready to answer some questions.    However, until our country decides it's OK to call a spade a spade, or a terroist a terrorist, then we won't have to worry about this debate. 
Nov 12, 2009 3:55 pm

Spaceman Spiff:

What about when we get it wrong like the case of Maher Arar?   http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/opinion/18wed2.html  
Nov 12, 2009 4:01 pm
[email protected]:

How did a thread about police corruption become one about terrorism…I think you are on the wrong thread.

As for the question posed, would you approve of police systematically stopping 1% of all drivers every year, taking them out of their car, patting down their wife’s and daughter’s ass for drugs and emptying the contents of your car on to the road…if I could save one life a year?

  Stupid hippie post. I hate hippies.
Nov 12, 2009 4:05 pm

[quote=JackBlack]Spaceman Spiff:

What about when we get it wrong like the case of Maher Arar?   http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/opinion/18wed2.html  [/quote]

Yep.  That sucks.  One innocent Canadian, or 100 innocent children?  You pick.
Nov 12, 2009 4:11 pm

Sounds like a case of trading in personal liberties for security.

Nov 12, 2009 4:20 pm

So why do we not compensate him. We have not even said sorry.

As to your question, two wrongs do not make a right.

If I can save, 100 children’s lives by shoot your daughter or wife should I?

I say no.

<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

Nov 12, 2009 4:27 pm

Jack - you would never get the chance. 

I like how nobody ever answers my questions, but always pose some of their own.

You are right.  We need to compensate him.  Heavily.  And an apology, for whatever reason they detained him.  And a bomb up Syria’s a$$.  Of course, the Canadian Government will just take 70%, so why don’t we just give it to them?

It’s not about two wrongs making a right.  It’s about making tough decisions.  So he was innocent.  And there was a huge injustice done.  I don’t think it should have happened that way, but this is war.  Maybe somebody had the same name as he did.  Doesn’t make it right. 

The difference between you shooting my wife and daughter and detaining someone are two different things.  Let’s compare apples to apples.  If you want to question them, then by all means question my daughter about Polly Pockets and dance moves.  Question my wife about educating special needs children for the last twelve years.  She’s polish and from Wisconsin.  And has been thrown out of the Catholic church.  The closest thing she has to religion is yoga.

Here’s the thing.  If you had tapped our phones, you would know all of those things.  And guess what?  You wouldn’t have to bother us.


Nov 12, 2009 4:39 pm

<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Moraen:

They did more then detain him, they sent him to Syria, were then know or should have know that they would torture him. If they had just detained him and questioned him in the <?: prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />US that would be one thing, but they did not. They sent to Syria, even though he had Canadian citizenship. There was no ticking time bomb, they could have detained him in the US and researched him and found out that he was not who they though he was, and then released him.

.

Nov 12, 2009 4:49 pm

Several years ago, I bought a leased Toyota Camry from a company. I picked it up in California and drove it to the good old south where I lived at the time. It had California plates on it. Within 30 miles after entering Texas, I was pulled over by 2 cars from the Texas State Patrol. 2 officers approached and 2 stayed in their vehicle. 1 came to each side of the vehicle with weapons drawn…asked for my license. When I produced a Georgia license, asked why I was driving a vehicle with a california plate. I told them I just bought it. I showed the bill of sale. Now understand, I am a clean cut caucasian male not their profile I am guessing. They asked me to get out of the vehicle. When I got out, they asked me if I had any weapons. I replied that I had none other than the smelly clothes I wore yesterday. They weren’t amused. They asked me to open the trunk, I did. Nothing there. They asked to search the vehicle, I asked what they were looking for. They replied to see if you are telling us the truth. I let them search and of course there was nothing there other than my luggage containing my clothes. After they did all of this, I asked them why they stopped me and they produced a warning, mind you ,no ticket that I was 2 miles over the speed limit. After driving halfway across the US, I decided to stop for the night at a hotel probably within the next 30 miles. When I did, I changed the license plate to the Georgia plates and had no further issues on the rest of the trip home. The point of the story is that while I did no wrong, I was put in a very scary position. Late at night on a lonely stretch of interstate with 4 officers…not a good feeling. Who polices them??

Nov 12, 2009 4:49 pm
    This is from the NY Times in 2006. The link is: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/health/psychology/31book.html?_r=1&ex=1162962000&en=438fcca0c2839726&ei=5065&partner=MYWAY&oref=slogin Suppose you are standing by a railroad track. Ahead, in a deep cutting from which no escape is possible, five people are walking on the track. You hear a train approaching. Beside you is a lever with which you can switch the train to a sidetrack. One person is walking on the sidetrack. Is it O.K. to pull the lever and save the five people, though one will die? <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Most people say it is.

Assume now you are on a bridge overlooking the track. Ahead, five people on the track are at risk. You can save them by throwing down a heavy object into the path of the approaching train. One is available beside you, in the form of a fat man. Is it O.K. to push him to save the five?

Most people say no, although lives saved and lost are the same as in the first problem.

I say both are wrong.

 
Nov 12, 2009 4:53 pm

[quote=JackBlack]

<o:p> Moraen:</o:p>

They did more then detain him, they sent him to Syria, were then know or should have know that they would torture him. If they had just detained him and questioned him in the US that would be one thing, but they did not. They sent to Syria, even though he had Canadian citizenship. There was no ticking time bomb, they could have detained him in the US and researched him and found out that he was not who they though he was, and then released him.

.

[/quote]

Didn't I just say that we should bomb Syria?  I don't know who sent him to Syria, but that person should be fired too.  My guess is that the Bush administration was covering for someone who has been doing the right thing for a long time and screwed up.  It sucks.  But who do you save, the US CIA agent who has been busting his ass saving lives for the last 20 years and getting absolutely ZERO credit, or the Canadian guy? 

The problem is, I give you credit for showing proof that we use draconian measures and it sucks and I wish there were a better way.  And answer your question.

But nobody ever answers my questions.

Interesting.

I want you to keep in mind that you will never hear about how these measures saved lives.  You only see failures.

If we lived in a perfect world, none of this would be necessary.
Nov 12, 2009 4:54 pm

[quote=Moraen]the thread was about profiling. and yes, if it was a woman officer doing the patting.  now, will you answer my question?

[/quote]

I accept the risk and responsibility of living in a free country. So, of course, my answer is yes. I am against any form of torture against anyone who hasn’t had a fair trial by a jury of their peers.






Nov 12, 2009 4:57 pm

[quote=JackBlack]

    This is from the NY Times in 2006. The link is: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/health/psychology/31book.html?_r=1&ex=1162962000&en=438fcca0c2839726&ei=5065&partner=MYWAY&oref=slogin Suppose you are standing by a railroad track. Ahead, in a deep cutting from which no escape is possible, five people are walking on the track. You hear a train approaching. Beside you is a lever with which you can switch the train to a sidetrack. One person is walking on the sidetrack. Is it O.K. to pull the lever and save the five people, though one will die?

Most people say it is.

Assume now you are on a bridge overlooking the track. Ahead, five people on the track are at risk. You can save them by throwing down a heavy object into the path of the approaching train. One is available beside you, in the form of a fat man. Is it O.K. to push him to save the five?

Most people say no, although lives saved and lost are the same as in the first problem.

I say both are wrong.

  [/quote]

You would be correct.  Both are wrong.  Why are both wrong?  The five people on the train tracks are idiots.  Guess what?  They shouldn't be on the train tracks.  It's not worth the fat man's life or the other person's life to save them from their stupidity.

However, saving children from a bomb-toting terrorist by torturing another terrorist.  All day!
Nov 12, 2009 4:58 pm

[[email protected]]

[quote=Moraen]the thread was about profiling. and yes, if it was a woman officer doing the patting.  now, will you answer my question?

[/quote]

I accept the risk and responsibility of living in a free country. So, of course, my answer is yes. I am against any form of torture against anyone who hasn’t had a fair trial by a jury of their peers.






[/quote]

Excellent.  Finally an answer. 

But I bet you wouldn’t have the same answer if your child were being held hostage and somebody knew where they were.


Nov 12, 2009 4:59 pm

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]…if you’re a Muslim looking male who spends his days hanging around other Muslim looking males in your NYC apartment, you’d better be ready to answer some questions.[/quote]
This is a crazy statement…where do you live? Happy McWhite-ville?
Would you say the same thing about Christians who love guns after Oklahoma City?