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Jul 25, 2007 8:39 pm

MikeButler, you are an intellectual midget.  You’re taking a partisan approach to a natural disaster of epic proportions.  You must be a big O’Reilly Factor fan. 

Jul 25, 2007 8:46 pm

[quote=Edward Pwns]MikeButler, you are an intellectual midget.  You're taking a partisan approach to a natural disaster of epic proportions.  You must be a big O'Reilly Factor fan.  [/quote]

You know, "Pwns", while your X-gen name first put me off, I think it was the way you drilled down into the facts and details (like how Brownie could possibly be a disaster in NOLA and "johnny on the spot" in Florida) that won me over to your way of thinking. Nice work.

Jul 25, 2007 8:54 pm

[quote=BondGuy]

If you really don't like people asking questions of their leaders you are living in the wrong country.

[/quote]

Truest statement yet.  Remember how the Bushies used to say, "If you don't like it move to Canada?" LOL

I feel that those still hanging on and believing the spin doctors in the white house are suffering from cognitive dissonance.  Here's the definition:

Cognitive dissonance is a psychological phenomenon which refers to  the discomfort felt at a discrepancy between what you already know or believe, and new information or interpretation. It therefore occurs when there is a need to accommodate new ideas, and it may be necessary for it to develop so that we become "open" to them.

Jul 25, 2007 9:27 pm

Mike the Butler,

I really didn't mean to make you so angry and steam.

Blame Mike Brown all you want, after all, your hero O'Reilly would do that wouldn't he? 

Biggest natural disaster to strike this country in a century and you want to point fingers at the guy running FEMA.  That's pathetic, but you were no doubt taught this by O'Reilly. 

What your thick skull, with the O'Reilly emblzoned cap on it, fails to miss is that no administration could have prevented or mitigated the disaster.  Those levees were going to give way, and then the flooded streets would hamper relief efforts, oh and then the cell phone towers being down, and the fact the the LA National Guard is in Iraq, and that little part about 20% of residents who refused to leave despite the warnings.  Yeah, its Nagins fault, no Bush's.

Mike the Butler, I'd love to see how you would have responded down there, with your little headset on.....with the O'Reilly button on your shirt. 

Jul 25, 2007 10:00 pm

[quote=Edward Pwns]

Mike the Butler,

I really didn't mean to make you so angry and steam.

Blame Mike Brown all you want, after all, your hero O'Reilly would do that wouldn't he? 

Biggest natural disaster to strike this country in a century and you want to point fingers at the guy running FEMA.  That's pathetic, but you were no doubt taught this by O'Reilly. 

What your thick skull, with the O'Reilly emblzoned cap on it, fails to miss is that no administration could have prevented or mitigated the disaster.  Those levees were going to give way, and then the flooded streets would hamper relief efforts, oh and then the cell phone towers being down, and the fact the the LA National Guard is in Iraq, and that little part about 20% of residents who refused to leave despite the warnings.  Yeah, its Nagins fault, no Bush's.

Mike the Butler, I'd love to see how you would have responded down there, with your little headset on.....with the O'Reilly button on your shirt. 

[/quote]

Jul 25, 2007 10:40 pm

[quote=anonymous]

However, at landfall, the only time that counts, Katrina was a weak Cat 3.

Cat 1, Cat 2, Cat 3, Cat 10,000.  Who cares?  Isn't it the damage done what counts?

[/quote]

You are absolutely correct. It's the damage and loss of life that matters. However, for anyone to discount a storm that literally blew one town, Punta Gorda, off the map by referring to it as a minor league non event is just plain cold.

The point is storm strength, which mike has been missstating in every post to sure up his anti-Nagin diatribe. once he realized he was pinned he changed the debate to storm damage. Using that reasoning a weak cat one storm delivering a direct hit to NYC would would cause greater dollar damage than Katrina.

Along the Jersey coast we've had Noreasters that have caused greater dollar loss than Charley. yet, non of those storms completely destroyed a place as Charley did to Punta Gorda. Ft Myer's got whacked pretty hard too. The infamous roof peel video loop that plays constantly on the weather channel was a municipal bldg in downtown FT Myers. Charley looks plenty mean on that tape! Dollars are not a valid measure of a storm's damage. The damage in that part of SW FL was every bit as devastating as it was along the Gulf coast the next year. Charley had less developed RE to wreck thus cost less in dollar damage.

Jul 25, 2007 11:05 pm

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=BondGuy][quote=mikebutler222][quote=BondGuy][quote=mikebutler222][quote=BondGuy]

So let's see, FEMA shows up in my wealthy white neighborhood like johnny on the spot handing out bottles of Evian. The do this not once but four times spread over two different states 1000 miles apart. But this same FEMA is nowhere to be found when the victims are poor black people? [/quote]

Wow, BG, that's a pretty long post just to find a way to dodge the question about how FEMA was "johnny on the spot" (your characterization) under Brownie in Florida and an unmitigated disaster in NOLA, again, under Brownie....

[/quote]

Ah, Brownie was in charge of FEMA when he helped my state? Oh my gosh, how stupid of me not to realize that. Gee i guess i was wrong.

Not!

What are you effing kidding me?

He was an unmitigated disaster in NOLA he got fired for it. It exposed the level of incompetence that exists within the Bush Admin. Chertoff should have been fired too.

Maybe, just maybe, it had something to do with FEMA being downgraded to a department within a department, having their budget slashed, and having a thoughtless government careerocat put in charge. That would be Chertoff.

But, as i said, I don't know. They did right by me and then crashed and burned.

Is it fair to compare the mess in Iraq with the mess in NOLA? ( the post that brought katrina into play on the threads) I think so and a large part of the country sees it that way too. Even people who live in red states are starting to get it. You don't like it, too bad. Keep your head buried. Incompetence in everything they do. These guys couldn't flush a toilet without f**king it up.The Bush admin will surely not be treated very well by history.

Maybe we should elect Nagin for president. He, at least, did one thing right. That's one more than the Bush admin can count.

And please don't count me as a democrat because i see the Bush admin for what it is. I'd love to see a strong republican in the race next year. That's not looking likely right now, but there is still time.

Jul 25, 2007 11:12 pm

[quote=BondGuy][quote=mikebutler222][quote=BondGuy][quote=mikebutler222][quote=BondGuy][quote=mikebutler222][quote=BondGuy]

So let's see, FEMA shows up in my wealthy white neighborhood like johnny on the spot handing out bottles of Evian. The do this not once but four times spread over two different states 1000 miles apart. But this same FEMA is nowhere to be found when the victims are poor black people? [/quote]

Wow, BG, that's a pretty long post just to find a way to dodge the question about how FEMA was "johnny on the spot" (your characterization) under Brownie in Florida and an unmitigated disaster in NOLA, again, under Brownie....

[/quote]

Ah, Brownie was in charge of FEMA when he helped my state? Oh my gosh, how stupid of me not to realize that. Gee i guess i was wrong.

Not!

What are you effing kidding me?

He was an unmitigated disaster in NOLA he got fired for it. It exposed the level of incompetence that exists within the Bush Admin. Chertoff should have been fired too. [/quote]

So, again, to review the bidding, Brownie was "johnny on the spot" in Florida, and you loved the FEMA response but an unmitigated disaster in NOLA. Yeah, that makes great sense...

Jul 25, 2007 11:15 pm

[quote=BondGuy]Maybe, just maybe, it had something to do with FEMA being downgraded to a department within a department, having their budget slashed, and having a thoughtless government careerocat put in charge. That would be Chertoff. [/quote]

Gee, those uncomfortable facts again, sorry BG. FEMA was part of DHS (Democrats loved that idea) and Chertoff was in charge (Brownie head of FEMA) when they were "johnny on the spot" in Florida.

The "budget slash" is a product of your imagination.

Jul 25, 2007 11:17 pm

[quote=Edward Pwns]

Mike the Butler,

I really didn't mean to make you so angry and steam. [/quote]

Don't fool yourself, you're not important enough to worry about...

Blame Mike Brown all you want, after all, your hero O'Reilly would do that wouldn't he? 

[quote=Edward Pwns]Biggest natural disaster to strike this country in a century and you want to point fingers at the guy running FEMA.  That's pathetic, but you were no doubt taught this by O'Reilly.  [/quote]

O'Reilly again. What's your fixation on this guy about? No one here mentioned him but you.

Jul 26, 2007 12:44 am

[quote=mikebutler222]

[quote=BondGuy]Maybe, just maybe, it had something to do with FEMA being downgraded to a department within a department, having their budget slashed, and having a thoughtless government careerocat put in charge. That would be Chertoff. [/quote]

Gee, those uncomfortable facts again, sorry BG. FEMA was part of DHS (Democrats loved that idea) and Chertoff was in charge (Brownie head of FEMA) when they were "johnny on the spot" in Florida.

The "budget slash" is a product of your imagination.

[/quote]

Mike your the one having trouble with the facts. And apparently you are having some reading comprehension issues as well.

I've stated eleventy kabillion times in these threads I don't know what went wrong at FEMA. I, like the rest of the country, know that something did go wrong. What? Why? None of know because getting a straight answer from the Bush admin is like trying to get the last word with you. It just ain't happenin'. I throw out budget slash as a possibility. Perhaps you missed the word "maybe"  in my post?

I praise FEMA for their work in FL ,and actually once they got going, for their work along the Gulf Coast. Still, there is a high likelihood that the FEMA debackle in NOLA will be a major campaign issue next year. Which neatly explains all the the time you and your right wing ilk are spending in disinformation campaigns such as this. Upping Katrina to a Cat 5, blaming Nagin, blantant lies in the face of the facts. In their wildest dreams the right wishes it was Nagin's fault.

Maybe a real cat 5 hurricane will come along this year or next, FEMA will get it right, and bail your guys out.  Fat chance huh? That is your guys getting it right.

The bottom line is this. The country is fed up with the messes the Bush admin has left us with. They are tired of the spin, the lies ,and the finger pointing. This guy has been in office for six years and it will take twenty years to undo the damage he has caused. That is, if it's undoable. And that goes well beyond Iraq and NOLA. So go ahead with your head in the sand all is well Bush can do no wrong beliefs. Fortunately for us and the rest of the world he can't be re-elected.

As for Brownie. Was he the right guy for the job. No, not in my opinion. Was he scapegoated by the admin? Is there any doubt?

Jul 26, 2007 12:49 am

It’s amusing to read the words of a hate filled individual fueled by stupidity.

Jul 26, 2007 1:16 am

There were many reasons that FEMA and the National Guard were late in arriving in NOLA.

First they have to asked to come in by the Governor of the State.  The Federal Government can't just come in and take over without permission.  The request to come in was late in coming even though Bush had asked for the Governor to make a request.

Second.  The major roads and bridges were damaged causing truck drivers who were unfamiliar with the area difficulty in finding alternate routes that were safe for the weight of their vehicles.    The local people who were more familiar with the back roads were understandably otherwise occupied.  

I have a brother in law who is a long haul truck driver and he was sent from Oregon to deliver goods to New Orleans. Others in his company were sent in from New York, Chicago and other central distribution areas.  Never mind that they took several days of traveling to get there.  They had no idea where to go and had to back track many times on narrow roads that were also damaged and blocked by fallen trees..

Third   Supplies, trucks, equipment, people can't just klick their ruby slippers together and make it there.   The amount of support and supplies needed were far more than anticipated due to the wide spread devistation. More than just NOLA was damaged.  Many places were damaged much much worse.

Were things bungled? Sure they were, but the major blame lays at the feet of the local authorities.  The Governor of the State, the Mayors of the Cities who didn't ask for assistance soon enough, didn't repair the levees in NOLA and who were just not prepared for a catastophe that everyone knew was imminent and certain to happen.

Jul 26, 2007 1:18 am

Sassy! 

Again, I'm sorry I made you so upset. 

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=Edward Pwns]

Mike the Butler,

I really didn't mean to make you so angry and steam. [/quote]

Don't fool yourself, you're not important enough to worry about...

Blame Mike Brown all you want, after all, your hero O'Reilly would do that wouldn't he? 

[quote=Edward Pwns]Biggest natural disaster to strike this country in a century and you want to point fingers at the guy running FEMA.  That's pathetic, but you were no doubt taught this by O'Reilly.  [/quote]

O'Reilly again. What's your fixation on this guy about? No one here mentioned him but you.

[/quote]
Jul 26, 2007 1:19 am

Have to be asked…   

Jul 26, 2007 1:21 am

[quote=Devil'sAdvocate]It's amusing to read the words of a hate filled individual fueled by stupidity.[/quote]

gutter religion.

As welcome as a dose of the clap.

hunt them like deer.

And you see me as the one making stupid hate filled statements?

I guess you would.

Oh, and by the way, your parents urge the of killing them as well. Is that speaking against the government? Eye for an eye. you've just gotta love the old world.

Jul 26, 2007 2:40 am

[quote=BondGuy][quote=mikebutler222]

[quote=BondGuy]Maybe, just maybe, it had something to do with FEMA being downgraded to a department within a department, having their budget slashed, and having a thoughtless government careerocat put in charge. That would be Chertoff. [/quote]

Gee, those uncomfortable facts again, sorry BG. FEMA was part of DHS (Democrats loved that idea) and Chertoff was in charge (Brownie head of FEMA) when they were "johnny on the spot" in Florida.

The "budget slash" is a product of your imagination.

[/quote]

Mike your the one having trouble with the facts. And apparently you are having some reading comprehension issues as well.[/quote]

LOL, no, no reading comprehension problems, just enjoying watching you try to untie yourself from those knots.

Again, FEMA did a dandy job in Florida, you said so yourself. FeMA was already part of DHS, there were no budget cuts, Chertoff was already head of DHS, Brownie was already head of FEMA, and, again, they were "johnny on the spot", according to you. At least according to you when you thought the Florida FEMA was the "before picture" and the Brownie led FEMA was the "after picture".

You say you don't know what went wrong on NOLA, but we both know that's not true. You know exactly what the difference was between Florida and NOLA. FEMA was exactly the same group that was in Florida, the difference was the twin disasters of  Mayor "send them to the Superdome without food, water, medical attention and security" Nagin (that you insist on praising) and Gov. "I don't want to sent my Nation Guard yet" Blanco.

Jul 26, 2007 2:53 am

[quote=BondGuy]

gutter religion.

As welcome as a dose of the clap.

[/quote]

It is a gutter religion and they are as welcome as a dose of clap.

You may not agree, but that does not make any difference.

If you could blink your eyes and every Muslim in America would be gone, would you do it?  Not dead, just gone--back to the turd world from which they sprung.

I assume not, but it would be fun to hear why not?

Jul 26, 2007 2:06 pm

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=BondGuy][quote=mikebutler222]

[quote=BondGuy]Maybe, just maybe, it had something to do with FEMA being downgraded to a department within a department, having their budget slashed, and having a thoughtless government careerocat put in charge. That would be Chertoff. [/quote]

Gee, those uncomfortable facts again, sorry BG. FEMA was part of DHS (Democrats loved that idea) and Chertoff was in charge (Brownie head of FEMA) when they were "johnny on the spot" in Florida.

The "budget slash" is a product of your imagination.

[/quote]

Mike your the one having trouble with the facts. And apparently you are having some reading comprehension issues as well.[/quote]

LOL, no, no reading comprehension problems, just enjoying watching you try to untie yourself from those knots.

Again, FEMA did a dandy job in Florida, you said so yourself. FeMA was already part of DHS, there were no budget cuts, Chertoff was already head of DHS, Brownie was already head of FEMA, and, again, they were "johnny on the spot", according to you. At least according to you when you thought the Florida FEMA was the "before picture" and the Brownie led FEMA was the "after picture".

You say you don't know what went wrong on NOLA, but we both know that's not true. You know exactly what the difference was between Florida and NOLA. FEMA was exactly the same group that was in Florida, the difference was the twin disasters of  Mayor "send them to the Superdome without food, water, medical attention and security" Nagin (that you insist on praising) and Gov. "I don't want to sent my Nation Guard yet" Blanco.

[/quote]

Mike, I luv ya man, you are the greatest! You are the freakin energizer bunny of debate! That's a compliment.

Float like a butterfly

Sting like a bee

You are the greatest debater

The only Mikey

The crowd roars!

Years ago my wife and I were having some communication issues. Typical married couple BS. We sought out a therapist to help us talk to each other. This therapist put two small ceramic ducks, head to head facing each other,  on a table and asked us to name an issue that was a sore point between us. Then she'd say start talking. Each time one of us moved off point, changed the debate, or tried to club the other with something not relevant to the issue the therapist moved the duck on the side of the table of the offender and told that person to keep it to the issue at hand. For example, the issue could be that my wife didn't like the hours I worked, but then she would bring something I said to her mother into it. Her duck got moved. The point being when you keep you ducks lined up alot of good communication can take place and people can move forward as my wife, who is now my business partner as well, and I have done.

I tell you that to tell you this, our ducks aren't even on the table anymore. We've been moving them around like chess pieces and now they've left the building.

I think our positions are pretty we'll established. Let's save the ducks for another day.

Jul 26, 2007 2:11 pm

[quote=BondGuy][quote=mikebutler222][quote=BondGuy][quote=mikebutler222]

[quote=BondGuy]Maybe, just maybe, it had something to do with FEMA being downgraded to a department within a department, having their budget slashed, and having a thoughtless government careerocat put in charge. That would be Chertoff. [/quote]

Gee, those uncomfortable facts again, sorry BG. FEMA was part of DHS (Democrats loved that idea) and Chertoff was in charge (Brownie head of FEMA) when they were "johnny on the spot" in Florida.

The "budget slash" is a product of your imagination.

[/quote]

Mike your the one having trouble with the facts. And apparently you are having some reading comprehension issues as well.[/quote]

LOL, no, no reading comprehension problems, just enjoying watching you try to untie yourself from those knots.

Again, FEMA did a dandy job in Florida, you said so yourself. FeMA was already part of DHS, there were no budget cuts, Chertoff was already head of DHS, Brownie was already head of FEMA, and, again, they were "johnny on the spot", according to you. At least according to you when you thought the Florida FEMA was the "before picture" and the Brownie led FEMA was the "after picture".

You say you don't know what went wrong on NOLA, but we both know that's not true. You know exactly what the difference was between Florida and NOLA. FEMA was exactly the same group that was in Florida, the difference was the twin disasters of  Mayor "send them to the Superdome without food, water, medical attention and security" Nagin (that you insist on praising) and Gov. "I don't want to sent my Nation Guard yet" Blanco.

[/quote]

Mike, I luv ya man, you are the greatest! You are the freakin energizer bunny of debate! That's a compliment.

Float like a butterfly

Sting like a bee

You are the greatest debater

The only Mikey

The crowd roars!

Years ago my wife and I were having some communication issues. Typical married couple BS. We sought out a therapist to help us talk to each other. This therapist put two small ceramic ducks, head to head facing each other,  on a table and asked us to name an issue that was a sore point between us. Then she'd say start talking. Each time one of us moved off point, changed the debate, or tried to club the other with something not relevant to the issue the therapist moved the duck on the side of the table of the offender and told that person to keep it to the issue at hand. For example, the issue could be that my wife didn't like the hours I worked, but then she would bring something I said to her mother into it. Her duck got moved. The point being when you keep you ducks lined up alot of good communication can take place and people can move forward as my wife, who is now my business partner as well, and I have done.

I tell you that to tell you this, our ducks aren't even on the table anymore. We've been moving them around like chess pieces and now they've left the building.

I think our positions are pretty we'll established. Let's save the ducks for another day.

[/quote]

Works for me, much respect