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Aug 26, 2006 5:04 pm


Expectation of what? Unqualified to do what?


How about if NASD or some other industry body started an advertising campaign similar to the one mounted by Underwriters Laboratory years ago?  That campaign led to the reality that unless something electrical has a UL label on it you should not buy it.

There have been massive campaigns such as, "Look for the union label" on clothing and "Buy America" or "Made in America by Americans."  Those have had mixed results but they were mounted nonetheless.

The financial services industry could finally get fed up with people like you and start a campaign with the theme being, "If they're not a Certified Financial Planner you should avoid them like the plague," although it will probably be more subtle.

Aug 26, 2006 5:07 pm

[quote=STL Indy] [quote=NASD Newbie]I don’t have the exact number but the car salesman makes a three or four hundred dollars for a new car sale. In order to earn $300 grand he’d have to be selling about 800 cars per year or close to four per working day. Not plausible–sort of like claiming you know a guy who got hit by lightening twice. Could be, but not plausible.


Not all car salesmen are at domestic car dealerships doing high volume, low profit deals around invoice prices. I know several car salesman making that kind of scratch. There’s quite a bit more profit on a $100,000+ car sale (Porsche, Ferrari’s, Bentley’s, etc) than one on a $20,000 Caravan, and many of those guys selling $100k cars also have access to BMW’s and Mercedes’ to keep their volume each month inbetween the big ticket cars.


Lot of bentley’s being sold in the US, there are about 35 dealers in the US. I would say you probably have 1 maybe two salesman at each dealer.

I know a guy who sells lexus and they top out at 150K he is in one of the top dealers in the country. He used to work at BMW.
Aug 26, 2006 5:10 pm

The CFP doesn’t have the kind of clout that was held forth by the AFL-CIO in the union heyday.  The NASD wouldn’t initiate that kind of campaign, as it could lead to another SRO infringing on it’s turf and that of course must NEVER be allowed.

Aug 26, 2006 5:50 pm

I have to chuckle a bit when I hear of this talk of having to be a CFP.  I often come across prospects who mention that they've also been interviewing a CFP.  My immediate is response is- "Excellent.  I imagine they had quite a bit to say about insurance, as well as products that offer tax-deferral." They typically reply- "uh, yeah.  How did you know?"

Certainly having a CFP can be of benefit.  Perhaps someday we'll all need it to stay/be competitive.  That said, I don't think it will ever make up for experience, investment savvy, and a top-notch investment platform made available to clients.

Aug 26, 2006 6:09 pm

[quote=NASD Newbie][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Soothsayer]


Q: How many car salesman are making 300K?

A: 0


I know of at least one car salesman who makes $300K per year.  How do I know?  He's a client.  And I'm not making that up.


that is SWEET!

What kind of cars does he sell? do tell!

I don't have the exact number but the car salesman makes a three or four hundred dollars for a new car sale.  In order to earn $300 grand he'd have to be selling about 800 cars per year or close to four per working day.  Not plausible--sort of like claiming you know a guy who got hit by lightening twice.  Could be, but not plausible.

Now, the guy who owns the dealership is another story--although most of them have HUGE debt service obligations.


For all of the doubters, he works at a very large new car dealership, but almost exclusively sells used cars.  He specializes in high-end US pickup trucks that are 1 or 2 years old.  Dualies, diesels, V-10s, that sort of things.  He also does a lot of lease return sales on European and Japanese luxury cars.  Additionally, he handles most of the wholesaling of trade-ins that the dealership does not want to hold as inventory.  Most of this is done over the phone, and the guy has contacts in every Western state.  He has a very large repeat customer following, and focuses on only the nicest and cleanest late model vehicles.  He is about 34 years old now, and has been in the car business since he was 17--dropped out of high school.  He has the NADA and Kelly book values burnt in his brain every month, and really knows every make and model of vehicle.  Things like what features were options in one model year, but became standard later.  When engine enhancements came about giving 10-15hp boost over the previous year--that kind of thing. 

As far as making $400 per car, you don't know jack about the used car business, Newbie.  The guy I'm speaking of regularly makes $1000-$2500 per car.  Remember, he's selling $40K pickups that are 10 months old.  There's money in that business.  I met with him on Monday of this week.  His August numbers aren't in yet, but he will be close to clearing $300K year to date by the end of this month.

Aug 26, 2006 6:18 pm

There’s a lot of juice in used cars and it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the used guys made more money. Lower price and more juice is a good combination.

Aug 26, 2006 7:55 pm

[quote=NASD Newbie]

Allow me to introduce another issue into this.

As we've discussed the CFP designation is going to require a college degree soon--and dude says he doesn't have the degree.

I expect that his NASD licenses will be transferred to his new employer, but if he plans to reenter the business again in a few years he had best complete a CFP before it's too late.

Otherwise the doors may all be closed when he tries to return.

Give that some thought dude, always be playing the game with two or three moves yet to be made in mind.


I have already reasearched it and have found that it is too late for me based on the requirements.  Although I can get a CFA, but am sure that it will be a difficult road.

Aug 26, 2006 8:15 pm

[quote=NASD Newbie]

I would also like to ask a very provocative question, of dude but of any of the rest of you who fit this profile.

What I'm wondering is if the lack of a degree may be causing doubt in your own skills at the subconcious level.

There is something called, "The Imposter Syndrome" which everybody suffers when they're brand new in a career.  A new doctor feels like he's nowhere capable of healing, a new lawyer figures there is no way he can win a case and so forth.

What happens in most careers is you get over it--you build confidence with each and every success, no matter how small.

I have the degrees and I felt it, what I don't know is if people without a degree feel it more than those with degrees.

If somebody is going to respond to this don't bluster and posture about how having a degree is meaningless, blah, blah, blah--that attitude in itself is a form of the lack of confidence that I am speaking of.

A moment ago I said that self confidence is built with each and every success, no matter how small.

In an asset gathering environment it's so much more difficult to get the relationship started because you cannot do what I did, get the guy to buy 100 shares of a 30 stock, open the account and start playing the asset gathering game from a completely different level.

Those of you who work for full service firms should talk to your managers along those lines--you are discouraged from doing tranaction based business, but you are not forbidden to do it.

From your boss's point of view what will happen--and it does--is you become focused on being a good stock broker, which means you keep him posted on what's going on in the markets and so forth.

When you do that you cannot also be gathering large assets--and we all know that that really is what  you should be doing.

The industry really does have a huge problem--competition from every corner, discount and internet brokers making transaction based business models nearly impossible, citizens being required to manage their own retirement plans with advice from (and I know you don't like to hear it, but it's true) a younger generation of men and women who don't have the proper educations and/or work ethics because of a laundry list of social issues.


You know, I have never really felt like a lack of degree to be an impediment.  When I first imagined getting into the business I was a little fearful that it would be an issue.  I took an inventory of my abilities and experiences and determined that I was MORE qualified than some young buck straight out of college.....I had a track record of sales success, the ability to learn very quickly, experience in a financial setting and a candor that was much more polished than my friends who recently graduated......and frankly, I had better grammar, was more articulate and better educated than they were, because I don't really watch T.V. or have ever wasted much of my time.  I am always learning on my own and have a very self directed passion to educate myself.  I excelled in every test I took during my training at Morgan Stanley (I had the highest series 7 score that the office ever had until they hired the older guy with the CFP, CFA, CPA and masters degree, he got a 93, I got a 92).

That being said, I suspect I'm in the minority in this society and for most people a college degree is critical.  I live in a college town and have considered getting a degree (or maybe calling one of those online places that give you a quiz and issue a degree based on your competencies ), but right now I'm going to take a little break and collect myself before throwing any more irons in the fire.

As far as my current job arrangement, I'll be getting a non revokable salary and it is a unique setup in the insurance it's not comparable to working as an insurance agent per se. 

Thanks for the good discussion.

Aug 26, 2006 10:11 pm

Good luck to you, Dude.  I hate to see someone that is intelligent and honest leave the business.

Aug 26, 2006 11:31 pm

Thank you Proton, your encouragement is appreciated.

Aug 27, 2006 12:17 am

[quote=knucklehead][quote=NASD Newbie][quote=knucklehead]I wonder how I’ve become so successful without being a CFP? [/quote]Well, in your case it’s by being unethical and dishonest.

But for those who would rather go to the dentist than be anything like you having a CFP is going to become the minimum standard.[/quote]Since you couldn't honestly and ethically make a living, the rest of us can't? I've found that people would rather make money than have a 32 page book that tells them how much money they should have in 30 years. I've NEVER lost a client to a CFP.[/quote]

 Yes, Dirk, you are truly a legend in your own mind.  While I've fired some clients, I can count the ones that I've actually lost on one hand...and I haven't lost the first one since I started my own firm last summer.  I'm confident that having a CFP is certainly not hurting my reputation...and the only ones who argue otherwise are those who don't have it.  Coincidence?  I think not...

Aug 27, 2006 3:06 am

dude, I  echo blarmston & Protons’ sentiments. Best of luck to
you  and thanks  for your contributions and candor.<!–
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Aug 27, 2006 8:47 pm

Thanks y’all.  I’ll be around from time to time, this business is too interesting for me to just stick my head in the ground, plus I’ll be working in a related field so this board will be helpful in keeping up with industry trends etc…

Aug 28, 2006 4:24 pm

Best of luck to you, dude.  Needless to say, your comments about the impact this career has on one’s family life scares me.  But I’ve decided to take the plunge anyway, or I’ll regret it later. 

Aug 28, 2006 5:24 pm

When you're at work, work like a draft horse.  Make time for the family and try to include them in what you're doing.  Hopefully your wife works in a professional field, it will help her it will keep her from calling you all day because the kids are stressing her out . 

When I got hired at Morgan we had one kid.  My second week in training we found out that my wife was pregnant, I remember thinking "Oh sh*t!".  She had the baby my first week of production and it was very incovenient timing to say the least. 

Don't have anymore kids!

Good luck.

Aug 28, 2006 11:04 pm

Or tell your wife unless she wants to get a job she needs to leave you alone between 8 and 5

Aug 29, 2006 1:45 am

later dude-

parting advice?

stay away from here (and all of the insurance discussion boards out there also) and GET BUSY!!!

(newby: notice the C in advice?)