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Sep 29, 2006 1:04 am

I think you qualified as the idiot in the room by saying "black - no way".  You've just acknowledged the possibility.

...and it's hardly a red herring...she is black and female.  When you try to make a sweeping generality like you did, you open yourself up to rebuke and correction.  Do you even know what red herring means or do you just like throwing around terminology to pretend to be intelligent?

Sep 29, 2006 1:09 am

[quote=Indyone]

I think you qualified as the idiot in the room by saying "black - no way".  You've just acknowledged the possibility.

...and it's hardly a red herring...she is black and female.  When you try to make a sweeping generality like you did, you open yourself up to rebuke and correction.  Do you even know what red herring means or do you just like throwing around terminology to pretend to be intelligent?

[/quote]

Zacko, what's it like to lack the guts to take a stand and tell it like it is? WHere are all of the black female brokers? Please explain how they can be as successful as a white male, all other things being equal. Do you really think that your fellow liberals won't draw the line when it comes to their own money? Especially if nobody would find out their reason for not doing business with the black woman?

This should be good....

Sep 29, 2006 2:47 am

The point you seem to be missing is that everyone doesn’t think like you. Some people do, some people don’t. So you take your thoughts and run with them but don’t try to make it seem as if that’s just how it is. It’s not. In some places yes- in other places no.

A black, blue, brown, purple, orange person can network and build relationships just as easy as a white person. Sure, some people will prefer a certain race but that’s SOME not ALL.

 Everyone that does not agree with you is not an idiot. I’d say they’re someone with an open mind.

Do you really have stats on the race and gender of every single broker/advisor in America?

Sep 29, 2006 12:26 pm

[quote=Silence]The point you seem to be missing is that everyone doesn't think like you. Some people do, some people don't. So you take your thoughts and run with them but don't try to make it seem as if that's just how it is. It's not. In some places yes- in other places no.

A black, blue, brown, purple, orange person can network and build relationships just as easy as a white person. Sure, some people will prefer a certain race but that's SOME not ALL.

 Everyone that does not agree with you is not an idiot. I'd say they're someone with an open mind.

Do you really have stats on the race and gender of every single broker/advisor in America?
[/quote]

Where are the black women, then?

Sep 29, 2006 1:14 pm

Is it a sign of an open mind to deny realities?

Sep 29, 2006 2:43 pm

This job is difficult for anyone and harder for a woman because of many things not least among them is cultural stereotyping.  In addition to the hurdles that men in upper management either purposefully or subconsciously put in the way, women tend to put up their own barriers to success in the financial industry.

As to being a woman of ethnicity it is even harder depending on which culture/ethnicity you are from.    In some cultures women do not participate in business at all and are actively discouraged from any participation in anything outside of their home life.  It think it would be extremely difficult to become a successful woman broker/advisor in a culture where women are not allowed basic freedoms or where they are looked upon as second class citizens.  In other cultures ethnic women can become quite successful.

As an example:  I have a colleague who is a very successful female broker. She is of Chinese heritage (3rd generation American, Stanford educated) and speaks several languages and dialects of Chinese, French and Vietnamese.  Her niche is in the SF Bay Area dealing with the large immigrant population and the many "Mom and Pop" type businesses they have established.  She does very well, where I would never be able to break into that market.  They trust her because she is "like them".

However, as talented as she is, she would NEVER be able to do business in my market.  The reality is that people want to do business with people like themselves.  Is it unfair?  Yes. But, you all know my feeling on that......life isn't fair....get over it.  This also relates to the  Smith Barney lawsuit.   It is true that some men will not want to do business with a woman, just as it is true that some women would prefer to do business with a man.  Cultural stereotyping again.  This seems to be more of a problem with the older clients than the younger ones.  Should SB distribute clients to advisors that they feel will not be able to retain the accounts in the name of political correctness.  I think not.

Should companies actively recruit and encourage ethinic minorites to become brokers (men or women), of course.  But we need to keep in mind that broker/dealers are in business to make money and if the niche market isn't profitable (for a man or a woman) or if the cultural bias of the ethnic market is such that a woman can't be successful, then the reason there are few or no brokers there is not discrimination.  It's just good business and financial decisions that make it so.

Sep 29, 2006 3:18 pm

No she’s not. What she is is prejudiced in the sense that she as

pre determined points of view–she has “pre judged.” We all do

that, the very act of engaging in a transaction with anybody involves

prejudging. Choosing a entree at dinner is prejudging, choosing a

bottle of wine at the liquor store is prejudging.



The only people who do not prejudge are small children and moronic adults.

Sep 29, 2006 3:44 pm

Babs, that gal out in SF sounds like one I know whose intials are D.J.

If it's the same gal, she does very well in her niche (mom and pop small business owners who are primarily Chinese-Americans).

Like it or not, people do tend to prefer doing biz with "their own kind" and that's not just on gender or racial lines. It applies if you're from back east, raised in the midwest, or California. It applies if you were raised middle class, upper class, or with a platinum spoon in your mouth. It applies to religious affiliation, too, in many cases.

Sep 29, 2006 5:09 pm

[quote=Helter Skelter]

Where are the black women, then?

[/quote]

You are talking to one which is why I am asking if you have statistics of the race and gender of every FA or broker in America? If you do, then that's great.

But the point still remains that there is room for everyone. That's why this wonderful world has niches. Everyone doesn't appeal to everyone but that doesn't mean you shut a whole race or gender out of the game just based upon that.

Find your niche. Run your business. Move on.


Sep 29, 2006 5:13 pm

[quote=Silence] [quote=Helter Skelter]

Where are the black women, then?

[/quote]

You are talking to one which is why I am asking if you have statistics of the race and gender of every FA or broker in America? If you do, then that's great.

But the point still remains that there is room for everyone. That's why this wonderful world has niches. Everyone doesn't appeal to everyone but that doesn't mean you shut a whole race or gender out of the game just based upon that.

Find your niche. Run your business. Move on.


[/quote]

AAAAMEN SISTAH GURRRRLLL

Sep 29, 2006 6:01 pm

The topic of diversity is high on the agenda of every firm and organization on Wall Street.



It is nonsensical to think that anybody is being excluded by design. What is excluding is society’s attitudes.



I have been a participant in so many seminars and discussion groups
about this that I can’t remember them all.  I’ve had a Vice
President of Diversity tell me that the reason her constituency was not
represented in appropriate numbers was because the exams were too hard
and that it was my duty to do what I could to get the exams made easier.



That same woman would routinely come argue that we could not fire a
potential producer just because they failed Series 7, even though the
firm’s policy was to fire anybody who failed Series 7.  There’s a
dirty little secret for you, not everybody gets fired if they fail–in
fact normally everybody except white males are given multiple chances.



So the exams are a stumbling block for sure.



But once the exams are passed the next stumbling block is society’s
attitudes and prejudices.  It’s there, in battle, that so many die
on the vine.  As has been said by several others, at the retail
level the decision is made by Mr. and Mrs. Jones and they are carrying
a boat load of “issues” and when it all shakes out they’re going to
choose a financial advisor who is not sterotyped as not being good at
numbers and that pretty much eliminates everybody but white males.



Fair?  Of course not.  Real?  You bet.   What is the greater misjustice?



If somebody wants to fight the odds, to deny what I see as reality,
then they need to get into the business at a level where they are not
asking an employer to guarantee them two or three years worth of
salary–go to an insurance company first.  Settle for the lower
guarantees and prove yourself.



If a woman, or a minority, wanders in with a track record of success it’s, "a whole 'nuther game."



But it’s a Catch 22 unless it’s done just right.

Sep 29, 2006 6:58 pm

Silence, assuming you are who you say you are (unfortunately, there are a lot of pretenders on the internet), I think that’s great.  It’s a sad commentary that we’re not past the blatant racism we sometimes see on these boards, but I hope you flourish in your niche and do well.  Dirk/knucklehead/helter skelter loves controversy and I’m glad you decided to contribute and provide a little balance.

Sep 29, 2006 7:44 pm

Thank you All for your views and opinions. 

Sep 29, 2006 8:34 pm

[quote=Indyone]Silence, assuming you are who you say you are
(unfortunately, there are a lot of pretenders on the internet), I think
that’s great.  It’s a sad commentary that we’re not past the
blatant racism we sometimes see on these boards, but I hope you
flourish in your niche and do well.  Dirk/knucklehead/helter
skelter loves controversy and I’m glad you decided to contribute
and provide a little balance.[/quote]



What do you see as blatant racism?

Sep 29, 2006 9:36 pm

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone][quote=Indyone]Silence, assuming you are who you say you are (unfortunately, there are a lot of pretenders on the internet), I think that's great.  It's a sad commentary that we're not past the blatant racism we sometimes see on these boards, but I hope you flourish in your niche and do well.  Dirk/knucklehead/helter skelter loves controversy and I'm glad you decided to contribute and provide a little balance.[/quote]

What do you see as blatant racism?
[/quote]

Well...Put Trader, Marvin Maven, NASD Newbie, and Soon 2 B Gone...you have been a blatant racist for the past couple of years that you have been on this forum.

Sep 29, 2006 9:38 pm

[quote=menotellname]

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone][quote=Indyone]Silence,
assuming you are who you say you are (unfortunately, there are a lot of
pretenders on the internet), I think that’s great.  It’s a sad
commentary that we’re not past the blatant racism we sometimes see on
these boards, but I hope you flourish in your niche and do well. 
Dirk/knucklehead/helter skelter loves controversy and I’m glad you
decided to contribute and provide a little balance.[/quote]

What do you see as blatant racism?
[/quote]

Well...Put Trader, Marvin Maven, NASD Newbie, and Soon 2 B Gone...you have been a blatant racist for the past couple of years that you have been on this forum.

[/quote]

Nonsense, the racist is you.
Sep 29, 2006 9:41 pm

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]
Nonsense, the racist is you.
[/quote]

If we polled the members of this forum as to the individual qualities of each poster and had "racist" as a choice, I am sure that a vast majority of those polled would label you as a racist...and rightfully so.

I seriously doubt that I would get 5 votes as a racist and all of those would either be in jest or by misinformed racists such as yourself.

Sep 29, 2006 9:45 pm

[quote=menotellname]

If we polled the members of this forum as to the individual qualities of each poster and had "racist" as a choice, I am sure that a vast majority of those polled would label you as a racist...and rightfully so.

I seriously doubt that I would get 5 votes as a racist and all of those would either be in jest or by misinformed racists such as yourself.

[/quote]

What is a racist?
Sep 30, 2006 12:15 am

This subject has been beat to death on this forum & it always ends up with allot of name calling back & forth. The fact of the matter is it takes 10 quality white hires male or female to find 1 or 2 that will stick. It takes the same number of quality minority hires male or female that will stick also. One of the highest producers in my region is a black male & 99% of his clients are white. No skin color can replace a good work ethic and determination. This business is hard enough regardless of skin color or gender without all the other garbage that people try to add into the recipe for success. 

It's hard enough to find enough quality whites to hire let alone enough quality minorites, that's one of the reasons wall street is struggling right now to right the ship because the statistics for women & minorities is abysmal. There are very few branch managers that are willing to take on the number of minorities in order to find the 1.

Oct 2, 2006 4:12 pm

It is very tough for any female to make it, but it can be done.  I suggest you look for a company with a strong Women's Network like Raymond James and Assoc.  They walk the talk.  They have a good deal of female branch managers and hook up with one of them if you can.

The ways a Branch Manager can help you or hurt you are endless.  The most important one is when they are handing out accounts.  They have the complete ability to hand out where they see fit.  It is not always to the best performers, but often times to their buddies.

Very tough to be one of the guys, and actually it is impossible. 

Although I am not a minority, I have not seen as much problems with race as sex.

See if you can be assigned a mentor who is NOT at your branch, preferably someone who is very successful and very powerful.

At the branch level, many times they want you to fail and can cause you to fail - - -so they can keep your accounts when you are fired.

OH, there is a good lead story in RR on this subject and some of the fallout at MS.

Best of luck.