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Nov 19, 2008 9:26 pm

I am a little curious about the comment “Ah…the beauty of big commissions and asset allocation funds.”  What big commissions are you talking about?  Asset allocation funds don’t offer any higher commissions than any other funds.  The trails are the same.  Perhaps I have my green goggles on a little tighter today than normal, but I’m missing something here. 

  Spears - what was it about buy and hold, asset allocation, diversify, call your clients more than once a year, etc that you didn't like?    I agree with you that Borker either needs to quit bashing on Jones or move on.  I can't imagine how difficult it must be to go to the office everyday and know that I can't stand the name that prints on every document that comes off the printer.  It has to start becoming a distraction at some point.  At least it would be for me. 
Nov 19, 2008 9:31 pm

buy and tank, asset allocation…with what…american funds…you mean “call and try to sell them something” quarterly calls…gosh I don’t know.  I wish I had Rankstocks and Rankfunds to generate a good churn and burn scheme…dang it.

Nov 20, 2008 2:44 am
ytrewq:

noggin,
To point out a couple of conflicting statements in your post:
“At jones what you have to realize is that the people doing 300K or less are by far the majority…”  Yet you then say "saying 50% of the people that went indy were doing less than 200K doesn’t make you look like the smart guy that I know you to be."
It cannot be both.  The math does not work.  If the majority are low producers, the majority leaving must be low producers.  Unless you are suggesting only bigger producers leave and we both know that is factually wrong.
“The average mature Jones person have 1000-1200 households.”  Come on.  Accounts maybe, households no way.  That is crazy.  I am beyond average and mature and have 1/2 that number of households.
"Why not have a 400 household book with 250K average size giving you 100M AUM? "
Duh.  Why did Jones not think of this?  So…if the accounts are larger, we need less of them to have more assets under management.  Are you suggesting we did not realize this, we turn down larger accounts, or what?  I am going to call all of my clients and tell them I want them to have more money.  That way I will have more assets without more accounts.  That was easy.
I am not here defending Jones but I am defending facts and accuracy.  There are plenty of faults at Jones and other companies for that matter.  No need to make up faulty logic and shaky facts.
B 24 I agree completely with “SO a 200K producer will be FAR better off indy than at Jones (or any wirehouse).”  I am just suggesting FAR better off isn’t going to be very good compared to what we expect in this industry.  A lot of $ will come out of that $200,000 before the rep sees the paycheck. 

I think that you misunderstood me. All of the people that have gone from Jones to LPL in a 2 state area, I know who they are after they made the jump. None of those people was doing less than 250K trailing 12, I am probably lowest on the totem pole as far as production. This drivel that only the people that couldn't make it are the ones that are leaving is just humorous...... I bolded your statement which is a logical fallacy. You assume that because Jones has higher numbers of lower producers therefore more of those leave than higher producers. This part is true that there is more turnover in lower producers, many leave the business entirely but the people that go independent by and large are ones that were producing between 200-450K at Jones. I mean why wouldn't I go independent when I can do same production and double my net....and if I increase my production, life is good!! I had a 30M book that I built at Jones and when I left I had 431 households and over 1000 accounts. Take a look around your region and call your buddies and ask them 3 questions: 1. How long have you been in the business? 2. What are your Assets Under Management? 3. How many households and accounts do you have ?   I will pretty much guarantee you that if they have been out over 5 years and have prospected at all, ( didn't get a GK or take over an office) that they will all have over 500 households....   You either know this is the truth or don't know enough to know it's the truth......
Nov 20, 2008 12:19 pm

noggin,
I will comment in more detail later. For now, you initially said “1000-1200 households”.  Your last post says “431 households” for you and " that they will all have over 500 households…".  These numbers are a fraction (1/3 to 1/2) of your original post.  I have the data for my buddies so I don’t have to ask them.  No part of my post discussed any merits or lack of merits concerning being Indy or Indy payout.  My participation in this topic was intended to keep it factual.  Nothing more.

Nov 20, 2008 3:25 pm
bspears:

buy and tank, asset allocation…with what…american funds…you mean “call and try to sell them something” quarterly calls…gosh I don’t know.  I wish I had Rankstocks and Rankfunds to generate a good churn and burn scheme…dang it.

  You mean LPL doesn't even give you something simple like rankstocks?  Man, what kind of a two bit company do your work for?    On a serious note, since when did buy and hold become passe?  Have basic fundamental investing strategies all of a sudden become wrong because we're in a down market?  Should we now be market timers, jumping in and out of the market with every hiccup?  There are a lot more advisors that Jones advisors that believe buy and hold is a good long term strategy.    I will give you the American Funds point.  We, myself included, use a ton of them.  They are who they are mostly because of EDJ.  With that said, it is possible to put together a well diversified, albeit basic, portfolio using American Funds.    I do make calls to my clients and tell them about good opportunities, but only when it makes sense.  For instance, yesterday we had a 10% bond.  I called a bunch of my clients and offered it to them.  Pure product pushing.  Didn't know if half the people I called had any money or not, or needed more income in their portofolio, but a 10% bond is hard to argue with.  I know you've been gone from Jones for what, two years now, so you don't realize the change in thought process of a lot of Jones guys out there.  I actually had a GP tell a group recently that he believed the days of dialing for dollars was dead.  I found that interesting.        I look at my rankstocks and rankfunds screens once in a while.  I'm alarmed at the number of individual stocks I have in my book.  119 positions.  I can't possibly follow all of them.  So, I try to pare them down from time to time.  I also do everything I can not to add any additional positions.    I'm going to guess that all the vets don't work the way you perceived.  Most of them don't really need to look at their rankstocks or rankfunds reports.  Most of them have enough new business coming in from referrals that it's a waste of time for them.    But, it's a moot point.  You're not at Jones anymore, so what do you care?       
Nov 20, 2008 10:21 pm

Just saw a Managing Partner update.  An interesting comment from Jim Weddle…he was asked about how many clients or assets was the ideal number to have in your practice.  He said that he has seen office with 1000, 1500, even 2000 accounts.  And he has no idea how someone could service that many clients.  He feels anything more than a few hundred is probably too many to service.  So for those people that feel that Jones preaches the model of thousands of households, that is at least a signal from the Managing Partner that it’s not a focus that Jones has.

Nov 20, 2008 11:00 pm

Let me rephrase that a bit.  It’s not the focus Jones wants us to have in the future.  It is in fact the model Jones has had in the past.  I think if Jim were to have his way completely we’d all have 100 $1 MM accounts, all either MAP or Advisory Solutions.  Those two things specifically because we can then focus on things like FAST to do what our clients really want us to do which is to tell them how long their money will last or how long until they can retire.  I’m OK with that model. 

Nov 21, 2008 1:36 am

Good point.

Nov 21, 2008 3:31 am

I think that is good news when your managing partner admits the obvious. I always felt he was a change for the better.

Nov 21, 2008 3:34 am
ytrewq:

noggin,
I will comment in more detail later. For now, you initially said “1000-1200 households”.  Your last post says “431 households” for you and " that they will all have over 500 households…".  These numbers are a fraction (1/3 to 1/2) of your original post.  I have the data for my buddies so I don’t have to ask them.  No part of my post discussed any merits or lack of merits concerning being Indy or Indy payout.  My participation in this topic was intended to keep it factual.  Nothing more.

  I am sorry I confused you, what I meant is that a mature advisor i.e. one with more than 10 years in the business will have 1000 households or more. If you have 400-500 households at year 5-6 then without changing the way you do business you will have the 1000 at year 10-12.  All of the ones in my region did and they wouldn't do a GK at 1000 households, when do you do it when you have 2000 households???
Nov 21, 2008 12:28 pm

This is probably beating a dead horse but here goes…
I am not confused by anything you typed.  I am the most veteran FA in my region.  Over 19 years.  I have more households than anyone else in the region.  Just under 700 ( I know, I know, way too many still and I am fixing it as the # has gone down).  The number of households, etc. that you are typing has no basis in fact.  I am not assuming or guessing.  I have access to the actual real data.  Frankly, none of this really matters and you are entitled to your opinion.  I am just pointing out that your numbers are guesses and opinions.  The actual, real, factual, non guessing numbers say you are wrong.
No personal attack here.  Obviously, I do not even know you.  Alot of things are typed on this forum, and believed by many, that are factually wrong.  I am just adding my $.02 to try to keep things accurate.

Nov 25, 2008 4:16 am
ytrewq:

This is probably beating a dead horse but here goes…
I am not confused by anything you typed.  I am the most veteran FA in my region.  Over 19 years.  I have more households than anyone else in the region.  Just under 700 ( I know, I know, way too many still and I am fixing it as the # has gone down).  The number of households, etc. that you are typing has no basis in fact.  I am not assuming or guessing.  I have access to the actual real data.  Frankly, none of this really matters and you are entitled to your opinion.  I am just pointing out that your numbers are guesses and opinions.  The actual, real, factual, non guessing numbers say you are wrong.
No personal attack here.  Obviously, I do not even know you.  Alot of things are typed on this forum, and believed by many, that are factually wrong.  I am just adding my $.02 to try to keep things accurate.

No problem, those numbers seem to vary region by region. I was just quoting my old region's numbers.
Nov 27, 2008 6:54 am

I'm glad to see I sparked some debate. I love how you guys work your ass off and believe the bs culture that you're lucky to get the bonus bracket 1 vs a layoff. Fkin retards. 300 million profit so far and here's your 600 dollar bonus. But hey its nice to have a company that shares profits... HAHA How else could they do with 60% of my share? Oh and they give me benefits, its only 1400 a month for insurance. HAHA again.

Bunch of washed up used car salesman.

 

Nov 27, 2008 12:27 pm

mr jones, i think you just need a little love. I love you. Poor guy probably beaten as a child. Im sorry for your misfortune. Or maybe you are just some guy in an insane asylum with access to computer. You like abuse. I understand. Everything is going to be OK little buddy.

Nov 27, 2008 8:39 pm

Dude,

You have issues. Just breath...and count to 10...that's right. 

Nov 28, 2008 4:13 pm

[quote=mrjones147]

I'm glad to see I sparked some debate. I love how you guys work your ass off and believe the bs culture that you're lucky to get the bonus bracket 1 vs a layoff. Fkin retards. 300 million profit so far and here's your 600 dollar bonus. But hey its nice to have a company that shares profits... HAHA How else could they do with 60% of my share? Oh and they give me benefits, its only 1400 a month for insurance. HAHA again.

Bunch of washed up used car salesman.

 

[/quote]   Actually I feel very fortunate to be in any bonus bracket right now.  I'll feel great when they pay me my profit sharing.  I'll feel great when my LP check comes again this month.  I'll feel great when they tell me how much extra I'll get from my LP next year.  I'll feel good, not great, about paying my insurance costs next year.  It's only going to be something like $700 a month and that includes a $200 chunk that goes into my HSA.  I feel fortunate that I KNOW who my employer is going to be on Monday.  And that every time my clients ask me how my company is doing I get to explain that, unlike those other companies that they've been hearing about, my company isn't shutting down, getting sold, laying people off, or asking the taxpayers for money to keep the lights on.  I'll still get to have my region Christmas party.  I'll still get to go on a diversification trip or two next year (I'm leaning towards the Cairo/Nile river cruise).  I'll still get to go to summer regionals next year.  And I'll bet that next year, when MER/BAC, WB/AGE, et al are still licking their wounds, EDJ will be in a much higher bonus bracket.  Yeah, I'm a retard.      Point of clarification.  I've never sold a used car that I didn't personally own.     
Dec 1, 2008 5:21 am

[quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=mrjones147]

I'm glad to see I sparked some debate. I love how you guys work your ass off and believe the bs culture that you're lucky to get the bonus bracket 1 vs a layoff. Fkin retards. 300 million profit so far and here's your 600 dollar bonus. But hey its nice to have a company that shares profits... HAHA How else could they do with 60% of my share? Oh and they give me benefits, its only 1400 a month for insurance. HAHA again.

Bunch of washed up used car salesman.

 

[/quote]   Actually I feel very fortunate to be in any bonus bracket right now.  I'll feel great when they pay me my profit sharing.  I'll feel great when my LP check comes again this month.  I'll feel great when they tell me how much extra I'll get from my LP next year.  I'll feel good, not great, about paying my insurance costs next year.  It's only going to be something like $700 a month and that includes a $200 chunk that goes into my HSA.  I feel fortunate that I KNOW who my employer is going to be on Monday.  And that every time my clients ask me how my company is doing I get to explain that, unlike those other companies that they've been hearing about, my company isn't shutting down, getting sold, laying people off, or asking the taxpayers for money to keep the lights on.  I'll still get to have my region Christmas party.  I'll still get to go on a diversification trip or two next year (I'm leaning towards the Cairo/Nile river cruise).  I'll still get to go to summer regionals next year.  And I'll bet that next year, when MER/BAC, WB/AGE, et al are still licking their wounds, EDJ will be in a much higher bonus bracket.  Yeah, I'm a retard.      Point of clarification.  I've never sold a used car that I didn't personally own.      [/quote] I'm glad you finally admitted that. Your therapy sessions must be paying off. In all seriousness, anyone who is not employed at a wirehouse i.e. Jones, LPL and RJ must be happy that they aren't........