Wirehouse vs Bank Brokers

Another classic idiot troll...

A better question to ask:

"Why is my life so pathetic that I resort to wasting my time on an internet forum?"

"Why dont people look at me when I am walking down the street- am I that unattractive?"..

how am i an "idiot troll" for asking a question?

as for wasting time on a internet forum, arent you a senior member here?

[quote=Vin Diesel]

Why do Wirehouse Brokers look down on Bank Brokers?

Don't Bank Brokers have higher avg production than Wirehouse brokers?

[/quote]

Bank brokers are weaklings who can't prospect and close business, so they have to take the crumbs that the bank tosses their way.

But Bobby, haven’t you been reading the posts of the bank brokers on here

who are taking million$ each month from indies? Are bank brokers not the

gods of this industry?

[quote=Philo Kvetch]But Bobby, haven’t you been reading the posts of the bank brokers on here

who are taking million$ each month from indies? Are bank brokers not the

gods of this industry?[/quote]



They are Masters of the Universe.

[quote=Philo Kvetch]But Bobby, haven't you been reading the posts of the bank brokers on here
who are taking million$ each month from indies? Are bank brokers not the
gods of this industry?[/quote]

Oh, yeah. What Philo said.

[quote=Vin Diesel]

how am i an “idiot troll” for asking a question?

as for wasting time on a internet forum, arent you a senior member here?

[quote=Vin Diesel]Don't Bank Brokers have higher avg production than Wirehouse brokers?[/quote]

WHERE did you get that gem?!!!

Having been in both programs I think it has to do with:

[quote=rightway]Having been in both programs I think it has to do with:

1. Building a book in a wire is much more difficult, but results in a much, much more high quality and loyal group of clients.

2. The sophistication of the client and product suite at a bank is typically lower than that of a wire.

3. The average account size of a wire rep is likely much bigger than a bank rep, thus they feel  superior.

4. People than fail in the wires tend to make it in a bank...so no one should be surprised that the people that make it in the Wires feel a cut above.
[/quote]

Thank you. That's good color.

I 100% agree the wire is harder, you take take the pride, I’ll take the money!

I’ll take both.

[quote=bankrep1]I 100% agree the wire is harder, you take take the pride, I'll take the money![/quote]

No. The bank takes the money and gives you the crumbs. And when you start making too much, they will toss you out and replace you with someone cheaper. That's how banks think.

[quote=bankrep1]I 100% agree the wire is harder, you take take the pride, I’ll take the money!

No. The bank takes the money and gives you the crumbs. And when you start making too much, they will toss you out and replace you with someone cheaper. That's how banks think.[/quote]

That's pretty close to the truth in my experience, except that when we started making too much money, instead of throwing us out for someone cheaper, they just "improved" the grid...greedy bastards...

Don’t think like a rep, but think like you are running a program:



Bank:  "My bank is supplying nearly all of the investment
customers. These customers are here because I paid for television,
radio, and paper ad’s selling checking and other bank accounts.  A
Rep’s effort to get in front of these customers is based on his or her
talent to convince my branch staff to refer them…for which they are
paid if not required to do.  These reps have far more flexibility
in terms of time (which is good for there families) than most all other
employees of my bank.  I feel it is OK to control their territory,
customer base, and compensation to a fairly large degree."



Wire: "We will supply the investment platform and the tools.  The
Rep has go get everything else.  The better the rep does the
happier we are.  In fact, we will reward the rep for doing real
good by paying them more as they grow.  In time the good reps are
very wealthy with compensation and stock, and that is fine, because
when they retire they leave their money here.  If they do not
well, we will fire them and move on."



It is like going into the Navy vs the Marines.

[quote=Bobby Hull]

[quote=bankrep1]I 100% agree the wire is harder, you take take the pride, I’ll take the money![/quote]

No. The bank takes the money and gives you the crumbs. And when you start making too much, they will toss you out and replace you with someone cheaper. That’s how banks think.

[quote=bankrep1] [quote=Bobby Hull]

[quote=bankrep1]I 100% agree the wire is harder, you take take the pride, I'll take the money![/quote]

No. The bank takes the money and gives you the crumbs. And when you start making too much, they will toss you out and replace you with someone cheaper. That's how banks think.

[/quote]

At that point I have the option of calling any wire and taking a big fat check, I know it and so does the boss. I have built a business 3 times faster than I could of at a wire, so if only a third of my clients go all is even. Also I am waiting for some stupid comment about loyalty of the client, it is all up to the rep. How well do they service the client, what is their relationship like, are you indespensible or replacable?[/quote]

Banks pay big checks for assets, not asses.

[quote=Bobby Hull][quote=bankrep1] [quote=Bobby Hull]

[quote=bankrep1]I 100% agree the wire is harder, you take take the pride, I'll take the money![/quote]

No. The bank takes the money and gives you the crumbs. And when you start making too much, they will toss you out and replace you with someone cheaper. That's how banks think.

[/quote]

At that point I have the option of calling any wire and taking a big fat check, I know it and so does the boss. I have built a business 3 times faster than I could of at a wire, so if only a third of my clients go all is even. Also I am waiting for some stupid comment about loyalty of the client, it is all up to the rep. How well do they service the client, what is their relationship like, are you indespensible or replacable?[/quote]

Banks pay big checks for assets, not asses.

[/quote]

Bobby, that statement made no sense at all.  If you'd said Wires pay big...then it would have made sense.  Do I have to hold your hand?

There is no doubt life is harder at a wire (I was at ML and left in good standing but with an admittedly waivering pipeline) to come to the bank where success for a good broker is all but guaranteed.

I can sell everything I used to, my payout is virtually the same (except now I have an expense account, cell phone, laptop, and ins 100% paid) I have more people to call on than I can get to, and I like the folks I work with.  If that bothers you, well, tough sh*t.

[quote=bankrep1]I 100% agree the wire is harder, you take take the pride, I'll take the money![/quote]

I will stay indy and take BOTH!   

[quote=bankrep1]
At that point I have the option of calling any wire and taking a big fat check, I know it and so does the boss. [/quote]

And that's why a year into a bank program I make as much or more than the "Presidents" in the fancy corner offices of the branches I serve (not that they know that).  The powers that be know that if I am doing my job well and keeping my clients happy, they have a lot more to lose if I walk out than they have to lose if the "president" does.  Let the "president" have the prestiege, I'll take the cash.

It doesn't mean that the bank won't do something stupid eventually that makes me mad enough to leave (see BAC, comments from Indyone, etc.), but it certainly gives me some protection.  It is also a pretty damn good "plan B" for an advisor at a bank.

[quote=BankFC][quote=Bobby Hull][quote=bankrep1] [quote=Bobby Hull]

[quote=bankrep1]I 100% agree the wire is harder, you take take the pride, I'll take the money![/quote]

No. The bank takes the money and gives you the crumbs. And when you start making too much, they will toss you out and replace you with someone cheaper. That's how banks think.

[/quote]

At that point I have the option of calling any wire and taking a big fat check, I know it and so does the boss. I have built a business 3 times faster than I could of at a wire, so if only a third of my clients go all is even. Also I am waiting for some stupid comment about loyalty of the client, it is all up to the rep. How well do they service the client, what is their relationship like, are you indespensible or replacable?[/quote]

Banks pay big checks for assets, not asses.

[/quote]

Bobby, that statement made no sense at all.  If you'd said Wires pay big...then it would have made sense.  Do I have to hold your hand?

There is no doubt life is harder at a wire (I was at ML and left in good standing but with an admittedly waivering pipeline) to come to the bank where success for a good broker is all but guaranteed.

I can sell everything I used to, my payout is virtually the same (except now I have an expense account, cell phone, laptop, and ins 100% paid) I have more people to call on than I can get to, and I like the folks I work with.  If that bothers you, well, tough sh*t.

[/quote]

My bad. I meant wires.

Often the transition packages Bank Reps get are not the same as reps
from other wires, Indy,or regionals…they are not as attractive. 
Why?  I think it goes back to Bankreps 1/3 comment, because there
is some truth to it.  As for Loyalty?  Most of your best
clients will go. 



I was doing over a million at a bank several years ago with a very
large AUM to boast.  When I left I found that many of the
$100K-$300k type clients simply did not transfer due to this "Loyalty"
issue, I had gotten many referrals from Senior Management of the
bank…they did not transfer, and I had many large client tied to other
area’s of the bank and many of those did not transfer.  Keep in
mind I was independent within the bank for the last 5 years I was
there…meaning I ONLY worked with my book- I had 2 full time
assistants covering them too-- no branch referrals- so these clients
got alot of attention. 



There is nothing wrong with the bank business but to fool ones self
that you have a hook over management because of a “fat check”…come
on.  Get over yourself and look at the big picture…the bank
certainly has.

[quote=bankrep1] I have built a business 3 times faster than I could of at a wire, so if only a third of my clients go all is even. Also I am waiting for some stupid comment about loyalty of the client, it is all up to the rep. How well do they service the client, what is their relationship like, are you indespensible or replacable?[/quote]

I know a couple of Bank Reps who have built huge books at banks. However they were lucky to get bank branch employees who were co-operative and introduced these reps to wealthy customers.

The bank reps I know tell me that bank employees think they are doing these reps a big favor and are also very jealous.

[quote=NaySayer]

[quote=bankrep1]

The bank reps I know tell me that bank employees think they are doing these reps a big favor and are also very jealous.

[/quote]

The employees I work with think they are doing the CLIENTS a favor by introducing them to me, and that only comes after being a truly helpful and humble person as well as doing the right things for folks day in and day out.

[quote=BankFC][quote=NaySayer]

[quote=bankrep1]

The bank reps I know tell me that bank employees think they are doing these reps a big favor and are also very jealous.

[/quote]

The employees I work with think they are doing the CLIENTS a favor by introducing them to me, and that only comes after being a truly helpful and humble person as well as doing the right things for folks day in and day out.

[/quote]

I'm glad your fellow workers are helpful and humble. Maybe, it'll rub off on you a little.

Are you kidding?  Pot, meet kettle.

Rightway - First of all, I appreciate your posts, they are among the most insightful on this board.

Second, it isn't so much the big check from a wire as it is the fact that next week I could be working across the street as "Insert my name here" Financial.  I realize that many clients would stay with the bank, but I think that my fee based accounts would follow, as would many of my other "A" clients.  When I decide who gets on the "A" list, the main critera is whether this is someone I want to be able to take with me if I leave.

I also live in a part of the country where it may be difficult to fill my position quickly, probably it would sit open for a few months and ultimately be filled by someone pretty new to the business.  I have a non-compete/non-solicit that for reasons I won't discuss can't be enforced (verified by in state employment attorney).  Those 2 facts will probably allow me to move some of the reluctant accounts that otherwise most people would not be able to take.

I'm happy and don't plan on moving anytime soon.  But even without the wire check I can still take my ball (bulk of the "A" clients) and go home (across the street).  My boss realizes that, which is why for the most part he leaves me alone and makes sure that his bosses don't try to take money out of my pocket.  It's not a perfect system and it won't last forever, but for now I am building up a nice book, both for the bank and ultimately for myself.

[quote=BankFC]

There is no doubt life is harder at a wire (I was at ML and left in good standing but with an admittedly waivering pipeline) to come to the bank where success for a good broker is all but guaranteed.

[/quote]

You stepped down into the Minor League, which is fine. Stop being so Arrogant.

[quote=NaySayer][quote=BankFC]

There is no doubt life is harder at a wire (I was at ML and left in good standing but with an admittedly waivering pipeline) to come to the bank where success for a good broker is all but guaranteed.

[/quote]

You stepped down into the Minor League, which is fine. Stop being so Arrogant.

[/quote]

Like going from graduate school to community college.

Ahhh, the sweet smell of jealousy.

Pikers.

I am only a youngin’ in the business, but I know a couple of people who have left our wirehouse and headed to a bank.  One needed more experience and the other was involved in a very bad team breakup.  Both are enjoying the bank more than their time at the wirehouse and both are already making more than before and in a much shorter period of time.  Now, I have no idea what their long-term prospects are like at the bank but they are happy presently.

[quote=bondo]I am only a youngin' in the business, but I know a couple of people who have left our wirehouse and headed to a bank.  One needed more experience and the other was involved in a very bad team breakup.  Both are enjoying the bank more than their time at the wirehouse and both are already making more than before and in a much shorter period of time.  Now, I have no idea what their long-term prospects are like at the bank but they are happy presently.[/quote]

But are they making more than the tellers?

[quote=Bobby Hull]

[quote=bondo]I am only a youngin' in the business, but I know a couple of people who have left our wirehouse and headed to a bank.  One needed more experience and the other was involved in a very bad team breakup.  Both are enjoying the bank more than their time at the wirehouse and both are already making more than before and in a much shorter period of time.  Now, I have no idea what their long-term prospects are like at the bank but they are happy presently.[/quote]

But are they making more than the tellers?

[/quote]

I don't know anyone this side of Bill Gates who does.

Moving from a bank to a wire for me:

[quote=rightway]Moving from a bank to a wire for me:

1. Financial Advisors are THE focus at the wire, not so at the bank.
2. Getting new clients at the bank initially, thus making more money faster, is much, much easier compared to a wire.
3. At the wire I am surrounded by many, many multi-million dollar producers which makes me better, at the bank I was one of the very few, which made me lazy and arrogant.
4. At the bank everyone knew and liked me.
5. I just went to a conference in FL where there were 900 reps...very few people know or care about me.
6. I have accumulated much, much more wealth at the wire than I ever did at the bank.
7. I have more than doubled my best year at the bank, I work less,  relative returns are better for my clients, and I am just seeing the beginning it it.

All in all what drives me is not so much money, but the satisfaction of building something great: A book and a team.  ML has done nothing but support me in this in every way possible, financial and otherwise...something the bank could not and would not do.  I want to bring new people into the business the Right Way and give them a six figure opportunity on the back of what I did over the last 20 years, I want my bosses to respect me and my practice. This is non $ compensation to me just like an Independent get's from running there own business...it's worth more than money.

Maybe I just got lucky.  My pay-out is pretty much 50%, I have an office with a treadmill in it, I have an expense account and all expenses related to a fantastic technology platform paid for, I get 2-3 trips with my family every year, my partners, staff, and bosses like me...and I like them. 

While the move many years ago was stressfull, and I toiled with going Independent believe me, I made the right decision and have NEVER looked back.  I am happier, wealthier, less stressed, and deliver a better experience to the clients.  It's a Win WIn!
[/quote]

I care about you.

WOW so it’s EASIER at a wire?

[quote=Bobby Hull]

[quote=rightway]Moving from a bank to a wire for me:

1. Financial Advisors are THE focus at the wire, not so at the bank.
2. Getting new clients at the bank initially, thus making more money faster, is much, much easier compared to a wire.
3.
At the wire I am surrounded by many, many multi-million dollar
producers which makes me better, at the bank I was one of the very few,
which made me lazy and arrogant.
4. At the bank everyone knew and liked me.
5. I just went to a conference in FL where there were 900 reps…very few people know or care about me.
6. I have accumulated much, much more wealth at the wire than I ever did at the bank.
7.
I have more than doubled my best year at the bank, I work less, 
relative returns are better for my clients, and I am just seeing the
beginning it it.

All in all what drives me is not so much money,
but the satisfaction of building something great: A book and a
team.  ML has done nothing but support me in this in every way
possible, financial and otherwise…something the bank could not and
would not do.  I want to bring new people into the business the
Right Way and give them a six figure opportunity on the back of what I
did over the last 20 years, I want my bosses to respect me and my
practice. This is non $ compensation to me just like an Independent
get’s from running there own business…it’s worth more than money.

Maybe
I just got lucky.  My pay-out is pretty much 50%, I have an office
with a treadmill in it, I have an expense account and all expenses
related to a fantastic technology platform paid for, I get 2-3 trips
with my family every year, my partners, staff, and bosses like me…and
I like them. 

While the move many years ago was
stressfull, and I toiled with going Independent believe me, I made the
right decision and have NEVER looked back.  I am happier,
wealthier, less stressed, and deliver a better experience to the
clients.  It’s a Win WIn!
[/quote]

I care about you.

i know several brokers, mostly from merrill, that now do 800k  wachovia bank and were only doing 200-300 at merrill. i my area, wachovia and suuntrust  kick butt while bank of america brokers and others lag behind.  it is an option for wirehouse brokers to go to banks.

lastly, a broker jst came from suntrust to my old company MS and is not tranferring many accounts at all.

[quote=Bobby Hull][quote=bankrep1]I 100% agree the wire is harder, you take take the pride, I’ll take the money!

No. The bank takes the money and gives you the crumbs. And when you start making too much, they will toss you out and replace you with someone cheaper. That's how banks think.[/quote]

That's pretty close to the truth in my experience, except that when we started making too much money, instead of throwing us out for someone cheaper, they just "improved" the grid...greedy bastards...

[/quote]

Indy is on the money. Thats one of the many reasons why im going wire. I lost $1,250 just last month in my pay because they "improved" the payout grid.

I’m at a bank program now.  I’ve been considering a transition to an insurance B/D.  Here’s why:

1)  You MUST develop diplomacy skills with your branch(es).  I currently work with 5.  Each branch’s staff is different, and ALL of them want you to “be there more” thinking that if you’re there, their referrals will go up.  (Haven’t they heard of the telephone?  It’s easy to reach me - unless I’m with a client and I purposefully let the call go to voicemail).
2)  Our software platforms are from the stone-age.  Try running a commission report to ensure that you get paid?  It doesn’t happen.  Your RIA fees don’t show up, and neither does any fixed insurance business either.  (Not saying this about all bank programs, but mine is stubborn.)
3)  They are “penny-wise and pound-foolish”.  They could upgrade their software and increase productivity of their advisors, but since it would COST a lot of money, they won’t do it.  They will use inferrior software planning platforms that are just “sales tools” but have poor calculations and projections that are not “tax-sensitive”.  (Stay away from Profiles Forecaster - I think it’s a lawsuit waiting to happen.)
4)  Reports, reports and MORE reports.   Banks are INFAMOUS about having reports for everyone to complete.  My time should be spent in front of people, not completing reports.  There are commission reports to run, referral updates to complete, activity reports for 2-3 different managers, reports to different branches to update on their goals, reports on investment dollars coming from the bank or outside sources, etc.  Even though I have an assistant to help with these, our time shouldn’t be spent doing so many reports.
5)  Meeting with branch managers.  How do you get them on your side in such a way that they see that you can help them with THEIR goals while they motivate their teams to help you with yours?  I’m a selfish bastard and I really DON’T FRIGGIN’ CARE about their goals.  But you MUST let on that you do.
6)  Good luck taking any clients with you.  With my program, I signed a 2-year non-solicitation agreement.  So basically, you’re “renting” a client base.  That client base can leave you, or you can leave them at anytime.  You’re building someone else’s book - not your own.
7)  Limited product line that is profitable to YOU to utilize.  Generally, you offer mutual funds and annuities.  That’s about it.  I have a fee-based platform as well for those higher dollar accounts.  Try selling life insurance at a bank, and see how well you’d get paid.  It’s should be a CRIME to be paid so little when you compare it to other programs.

BOTTOM LINE:  BANKS MAKE MORE MONEY THAN YOU DO ON YOUR EFFORTS BECAUSE YOU HAVE CONDITIONED YOURSELF TO BE DEPENDENT UPON OTHERS FOR YOUR SUCCESS.  WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT TO BE “SYNERGY” WITH YOUR BRANCHES, OR COWARDICE FOR NOT DOING COLD-MARKETING, YOU ARE DEPENDENT UPON TOO MANY THINGS OUTSIDE YOUR CONTROL (STAFF TURNOVER, CHANGES IN B/D GRID PAYOUT, ETC.).  THUS, YOU ARE COMPENSATED ACCORDINGLY.

[quote=skippy]I'm at a bank program now.  I've been considering a transition to an insurance B/D.  Here's why:

1)  You MUST develop diplomacy skills with your branch(es).  I currently work with 5.  Each branch's staff is different, and ALL of them want you to "be there more" thinking that if you're there, their referrals will go up.  (Haven't they heard of the telephone?  It's easy to reach me - unless I'm with a client and I purposefully let the call go to voicemail).

What's so hard about diplomacy?  Unless they are sunni and you are sh*te, I think it can be accomplished.

2)  Our software platforms are from the stone-age.  Try running a commission report to ensure that you get paid?  It doesn't happen.  Your RIA fees don't show up, and neither does any fixed insurance business either.  (Not saying this about all bank programs, but mine is stubborn.)

That shouldn't be a reps responsibility.  Don't you have a program manager?

3)  They are "penny-wise and pound-foolish".  They could upgrade their software and increase productivity of their advisors, but since it would COST a lot of money, they won't do it.  They will use inferrior software planning platforms that are just "sales tools" but have poor calculations and projections that are not "tax-sensitive".  (Stay away from Profiles Forecaster - I think it's a lawsuit waiting to happen.)

You are not a tax adviser, and you are a lawsuit waiting to happen if you think you are.

4)  Reports, reports and MORE reports.   Banks are INFAMOUS about having reports for everyone to complete.  My time should be spent in front of people, not completing reports.  There are commission reports to run, referral updates to complete, activity reports for 2-3 different managers, reports to different branches to update on their goals, reports on investment dollars coming from the bank or outside sources, etc.  Even though I have an assistant to help with these, our time shouldn't be spent doing so many reports.

See above.  I never do any of that crap.

5)  Meeting with branch managers.  How do you get them on your side in such a way that they see that you can help them with THEIR goals while they motivate their teams to help you with yours?  I'm a selfish bastard and I really DON'T FRIGGIN' CARE about their goals.  But you MUST let on that you do.

You will never be successful.  Good ole Zig Ziglar said it best:  You can everything you want in the world, if you just help enough people get what they want.

6)  Good luck taking any clients with you.  With my program, I signed a 2-year non-solicitation agreement.  So basically, you're "renting" a client base.  That client base can leave you, or you can leave them at anytime.  You're building someone else's book - not your own.

Nice attitude.

7)  Limited product line that is profitable to YOU to utilize.  Generally, you offer mutual funds and annuities.  That's about it.  I have a fee-based platform as well for those higher dollar accounts.  Try selling life insurance at a bank, and see how well you'd get paid.  It's should be a CRIME to be paid so little when you compare it to other programs.

LOL.  Sounds like your b/d is weak.  I can sell virtually everything a wirehouse can.  You want to go sell insurance?  Then yes, you'd get paid more outside a grid (which wirehouses use also by the way).

BOTTOM LINE:  BANKS MAKE MORE MONEY THAN YOU DO ON YOUR EFFORTS BECAUSE YOU HAVE CONDITIONED YOURSELF TO BE DEPENDENT UPON OTHERS FOR YOUR SUCCESS.  WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT TO BE "SYNERGY" WITH YOUR BRANCHES, OR COWARDICE FOR NOT DOING COLD-MARKETING, YOU ARE DEPENDENT UPON TOO MANY THINGS OUTSIDE YOUR CONTROL (STAFF TURNOVER, CHANGES IN B/D GRID PAYOUT, ETC.).  THUS, YOU ARE COMPENSATED ACCORDINGLY.
[/quote]

Life is too short to be so miserable.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Here's my take...

Wirehouse:

It's harder and takes longer to build a book. But you have deeper client relationships, and a more portable book. 

Banks:

You can build a large book quickly, but it's not portable.

I guess it depends where you are in your life.

My bank book was very portable...clients are still moving over even though I am making no effort to bring them in anymore.  I've taken over half of the total and over 90% of what I targeted.  I welcomed the opportunity to purge my book of undesireable clients...the kind you take when you're new to the biz and don't know any better...

I'm guessing I took more than my program manager expected, anyway...

[quote=Indyone]

My bank book was very portable...clients are still moving over even though I am making no effort to bring them in anymore.  I've taken over half of the total and over 90% of what I targeted.  I welcomed the opportunity to purge my book of undesireable clients...the kind you take when you're new to the biz and don't know any better...

I'm guessing I took more than my program manager expected, anyway...

[/quote]

wow...thats great. how long were you in the bank program for?

[quote=bankrep1] [quote=Bobby Hull]

[quote=bankrep1]I 100% agree the wire is harder, you take take the pride, I'll take the money![/quote]

No. The bank takes the money and gives you the crumbs. And when you start making too much, they will toss you out and replace you with someone cheaper. That's how banks think.

[/quote]

At that point I have the option of calling any wire and taking a big fat check, I know it and so does the boss. I have built a business 3 times faster than I could of at a wire, so if only a third of my clients go all is even. Also I am waiting for some stupid comment about loyalty of the client, it is all up to the rep. How well do they service the client, what is their relationship like, are you indespensible or replacable?[/quote]

I'm with ya!!! Not all banks are created equal.  You can have a great career at the right bank.

Vin, I was in the bank 6+ years.  I think the difference between my conversion rate and some others is that I brought in a lot of my business.  Sure, I also got some from bank leads, but because I brought many relationships to the bank, they weren’t hesitant to leave when I did.  It also helped to be established in the community where I worked.  I and my family were known before I got into business locally, so I didn’t look like an outsider.  When I left the bank, I stayed in the same community as an independent.