Wachos at AGE

BTW, WS charges the brokers $15 NET for each stock trade between $95 and $1,000. Trades less than $95 pay the broker $0 PLUS he pays $15 ticket charge.

Payout is 20% on the first $10,500 each month, and 50% after that.

[quote=Sedona]Worried about culture changing? IT ALREADY CHANGED. After Bobby BAGby’s move, brokers were talking about what’s best for THEM (stay, go, sign or not) not the firm. That’s the CHANGE in culture.


The general is rolling in his grave. AGE RIP.

[/quote]

Agreed!

Sorry for venting, but they’ve been working on this for at least the past 6 months (maybe longer, since Wachovia was brought in to “advise” on the Beta system implementation… compatibility anyone?), while all along TELLING US that they would do everything to STAY INDEPENDENT. Cut commissions to stay independent, do more fee-based bus to stay independent, recruiting bonus to attract high producing FCs to stay independednt, …

Nice move Bobby “2 face” Bagby. All good things must come to an end. Maybe we should have been more aggressive in increasing productivity, maybe we should have done more fee based, too late now.

But Bobby didn’t have to go overboard telling us they were doing all they had to do to remain independent. He could have just stayed quiet or better, just lay it like it is:

Guys, we’ll do all we can to stay independent, maybe consider merging with a good partner, maybe acquire someone else, but we can’t afford a hostile takeover. We need to look at options.

Not too hard.

I think it's a done deal.  They'll wave $$ to keep people, sign them, merge, then cut commissions.  Not sure, over a 10 year period, what the total compensation would be going with WS as opposed to staying on their own.  The top producers may be paying for their bonues more than once in lower commission levels over time.

But if you look at the progression of a "stock broker" over the last decade or more, they're moving into more of a money manager role than an actual broker.  If you are managing money, you need all the tools at your disposal in order to do your job and stay competitive.  But that being said, there seems to be a multitude of other options open to provide those tools.  Time will tell.

Maybe AGE culture is stronger than WS? and will ultimately win out?  A person also has to look at the other side of the coin, if the WS advisors weren't that happy they might view this as the light at the end of the tunnel and jump on board with the AGE culture as well.  Or it might end up a place where the traditional AGE culture can prosper along side of the WS culture.  230 offices will be closing though.  Apparently most will merge with other AGE/WS offices in the same areas but if some consultant has a nice office and is then thrown into a cubical, they're not going to be happy.

I'm a newb at AGE so I'm no expert.  But I can't see how this can be good for AGE consultants.  However, that doesn't mean it will be a bad thing either. 

A Wachovia broker I spoke with, former PRU of 20 yrs before the merge, said they were very happy that operations were moving to STL, because their ops suck. They’re also happy with AGE research.

Problem is, most AGE branch managers are also the biggest producers in their offices. They like being mgr, will they put up with Wachovia’s salaried managers if they lose their branches?

[quote=Sedona]A Wachovia broker I spoke with, former PRU of 20 yrs
before the merge, said they were very happy that operations were moving
to STL, because their ops suck. They’re also happy with AGE research.

[/quote]



AGE research is top notch, if they gut that out, it would be a real loss.

[quote=AllREIT][quote=Sedona]A Wachovia broker I spoke with, former PRU of 20 yrs
before the merge, said they were very happy that operations were moving
to STL, because their ops suck. They’re also happy with AGE research.

[/quote]



AGE research is top notch, if they gut that out, it would be a real loss.



[/quote]

Agree, they do a good job of coming up with timely ideas as well (hot line trading program based on technicals and with 1-2 month price targets). But there’s talk that some operations, such as investment banking, maybe research, would move to Richmond, VA.

Moving to STL was probably a recomendation from a Real Estate broker, since unloading 2.6 million square feet in “abandoned” STL isn’t easy. I saw many abandoned building near the AGE beutiful home office.

WS has a very detailed history of gutting brokerages they buy.  It's how they pay for them.  At AGE there is 1.25 support people for every broker, at WS there is less than 1.  I can't believe they'll somehow change those ratios in this merger.    Lots of jobs are going away.  What are they going to do with all the people who support the WS brokers now when they move support to STL?  Pink slips?  And what are they going to do with all the AGE people after their next merger?  

Here's the link detailing the merger and some numbers:

http://www.wachovia.com/file/WB_AGE_Investor_Presentation.pd f

[quote=Sedona]
Problem is, most AGE branch managers are also the biggest producers in their offices. They like being mgr, will they put up with Wachovia's salaried managers if they lose their branches?
[/quote]

The Mgrs who've been wanting out (since the job has totally changed) make try it out, as long as Mr Salary leaves them alone.....the ones who want to stay BOM won't put up with some paper pusher riding their ass.

I'm wondering if the indy arm will be available to us immediately if we turn down retention deals?  Did they let Pru go that way off the bat?

Their payout grid is easy to get from onwallstreet.com

At my level it's the same payout as before.  The people that get hurt are the sub 300K producers.  So they can waive $$ in my face and make me sign a 6 year forgivable loan and if at the end of 6 years there is too much BS, I will leave.  And I'll leave a lot richer.

They also know that if the sub 300K brokers leave due to no incentive package, that I'll be on the phone helping to call their clients and gaining new assets.

[quote=Omirp222]

I think it's a done deal.  They'll wave $$ to keep people, sign them, merge, then cut commissions.  Not sure, over a 10 year period, what the total compensation would be going with WS as opposed to staying on their own.  The top producers may be paying for their bonues more than once in lower commission levels over time.

But if you look at the progression of a "stock broker" over the last decade or more, they're moving into more of a money manager role than an actual broker.  If you are managing money, you need all the tools at your disposal in order to do your job and stay competitive.  But that being said, there seems to be a multitude of other options open to provide those tools.  Time will tell.

Maybe AGE culture is stronger than WS? and will ultimately win out?  A person also has to look at the other side of the coin, if the WS advisors weren't that happy they might view this as the light at the end of the tunnel and jump on board with the AGE culture as well.  Or it might end up a place where the traditional AGE culture can prosper along side of the WS culture.  230 offices will be closing though.  Apparently most will merge with other AGE/WS offices in the same areas but if some consultant has a nice office and is then thrown into a cubical, they're not going to be happy.

I'm a newb at AGE so I'm no expert.  But I can't see how this can be good for AGE consultants.  However, that doesn't mean it will be a bad thing either. 

[quote=Sedona]BTW, WS charges the brokers $15 NET for each stock trade between $95 and $1,000. Trades less than $95 pay the broker $0 PLUS he pays $15 ticket charge.

Payout is 20% on the first $10,500 each month, and 50% after that.
[/quote]

FTYI

Every firm has a ticket charge. Most just hide it from you.

They aren't going to finalize the payout grid until 2008.  AGE grid on OWS.com doesn't add in the 401k contributions of the company of 7.5% of gross last year (according to an article released by AGE).  But the WS grid on that site might not include things either, so I don't know a true apples to apples comparision.  Maybe a WS broker can shed some light on this.

I just find it odd they are going to sign everyone and then release the payout grid.  And if this is such a good deal for brokers, why do they even have to have retention packages?  I would think since we can offer car loans now, everyone would want to come to WS. 

[quote=Omirp222]

They aren't going to finalize the payout grid until 2008.  AGE grid on OWS.com doesn't add in the 401k contributions of the company of 7.5% of gross last year (according to an article released by AGE).  But the WS grid on that site might not include things either, so I don't know a true apples to apples comparision.  Maybe a WS broker can shed some light on this.

I just find it odd they are going to sign everyone and then release the payout grid.  And if this is such a good deal for brokers, why do they even have to have retention packages?  I would think since we can offer car loans now, everyone would want to come to WS. 

[/quote]

Most of my clients pay cash for their cars.  Why on earth would I want to offer car loans?

[quote=Ferris Bueller][quote=Omirp222]

They aren't going to finalize the payout grid until 2008.  AGE grid on OWS.com doesn't add in the 401k contributions of the company of 7.5% of gross last year (according to an article released by AGE).  But the WS grid on that site might not include things either, so I don't know a true apples to apples comparision.  Maybe a WS broker can shed some light on this.

I just find it odd they are going to sign everyone and then release the payout grid.  And if this is such a good deal for brokers, why do they even have to have retention packages?  I would think since we can offer car loans now, everyone would want to come to WS. 

[/quote]

Most of my clients pay cash for their cars.  Why on earth would I want to offer car loans?

[/quote]

LOL it was a joke.

Sorry.  I don’t officially have a sense of humor

[quote=Omirp222]

They aren't going to finalize the payout grid until 2008.  AGE grid on OWS.com doesn't add in the 401k contributions of the company of 7.5% of gross last year (according to an article released by AGE).  But the WS grid on that site might not include things either, so I don't know a true apples to apples comparision.  Maybe a WS broker can shed some light on this.

I just find it odd they are going to sign everyone and then release the payout grid.  And if this is such a good deal for brokers, why do they even have to have retention packages?  I would think since we can offer car loans now, everyone would want to come to WS. 

[/quote]

You just nailed the whole smelly situation...

They are going to march into your region sometimes in the near future & will present you with an offer while at the same time they have also said that the payout structure will definitely change in 2008 all of this....well after your 6yr contract has been signed.  Sounds like a bank deal to me.

As I understand it the offers will be forgivable loans with a 6 year period.  So if in 3 years it’s not working out, you keep 1/2 and give the other 1/2 back.  Then take a larger check to move.  Win Win.

I can't quote fact, because I haven't seen my offer but I have talked to a branch manager at WS who is a buddy, & he tells me that in past acquisitions the offer has a little paragraph which makes your clients "their" clients. This "non compete" is for the duration of the 6yr deal.

Why would you sign a contract where non exists right now?

because that paragraph doesnt work.  It's been proven in many arbitration cases that they can not enforce those clauses.  If I leave, a client is free to do whatever they want.

And even if I did care about it, so I wait out the 6 years and keep my check.  I have plenty of time to get my clients for the jump and then I take a bigger check or go indy.

Does anyone really believe they don’t already have the plan written up???

Do you think a serial acquirer like WB didn’t know what they wanted to get out of their $7 bi investment?

How often do takeover deals get announced on a Thursday??? They knew if announced on a Monday we’d have 5 full days to nag and demand answers. On Thursday, we’ll bitch about for 2 days, go home for the weekend, spend time with our families, relax, reason, and come back to work Monday ready to fall in line.

It push came to shove and the deal was reasonable (± 50% for $300K plus producers) what would you do?

(a) Stay and sign the deal for 6 years
(b) Don’t sign but stay (would that even be allowed?)
© Go to ML, SB, MS (which would you prefer)
(d) Go to a RBC Dain, Stifel, or Ameriprise
(e) Go Indy

I'm just finishing up the first of the new and improved trainng class 08A. I think it has been top notch. I guess the non-compete I have, with teeth, is history. Any idea what may come of us newbies?

[quote=Gaddock]

I'm just finishing up the first of the new and improved trainng class 08A. I think it has been top notch. I guess the non-compete I have, with teeth, is history. Any idea what may come of us newbies?

[/quote]

I hope you cold call or network better than you read.

You already asked this question on another thread & it was answered fully.   Go back & read to find your answer.

[quote=Broker Fee][quote=Gaddock]

I'm just finishing up the first of the new and improved trainng class 08A. I think it has been top notch. I guess the non-compete I have, with teeth, is history. Any idea what may come of us newbies?

[/quote]

I hope you cold call or network better than you read.

You already asked this question on another thread & it was answered fully.   Go back & read to find your answer.

[/quote]

The only answer is "nobody knows".  I don't think that's the answer he's looking for though.  No need to cut the guy down because he's worried about his job.

[quote=Sedona]
(b) Don't sign but stay (would that even be allowed?)
[/quote]

I think that's the million dollar question.  I don't think there is any other issue that would exemplify what the new culture will be when the merger does go through.  If in fact there are no options other than sign or the door, speaks volumes about how future issues and culture clashes will be handled.

[quote=Omirp222]

[quote=Sedona]
(b) Don’t sign but stay (would that even be allowed?)
[/quote]

I think that's the million dollar question.  I don't think there is any other issue that would exemplify what the new culture will be when the merger does go through.  If in fact there are no options other than sign or the door, speaks volumes about how future issues and culture clashes will be handled.

[quote=Sedona] [quote=Omirp222]

[quote=Sedona]
(b) Don't sign but stay (would that even be allowed?)
[/quote]

I think that's the million dollar question.  I don't think there is any other issue that would exemplify what the new culture will be when the merger does go through.  If in fact there are no options other than sign or the door, speaks volumes about how future issues and culture clashes will be handled.

[/quote]

I agree that not signing and staying is a smart and cautious move, but if we have any chance to derail this takeover (I know, I might be dreaming) would be to vote with our feet. Either by leaving or at least not signing.
[/quote]

I have no leverage as I'm a noob, but in my experience with negotiations, you never take the first offer.  And in typical negotiation precedings, there has to be a counteroffer from the other party (brokers).  If they divide brokers into separate battles(broker vs WS), brokers will lose.  There has to be some counter offer with weight and teeth behind it.  PRU/WS deal was hard for the brokers to counter because the company(PRU) was losing money, it's not the case with AGE.  Even if there are 2-3-4 office(group) hold outs, it will create huge problems.  They can't deal with a few offices and offer them 1 deal and turn around and offer the rest another.

Basic economic term here:  Price taker vs price maker.

But I believe we'll know by the end of the month how this merger will play out.  If the brokers roll over and accept the 1st offer we'll only have to look as far as the local WS office to see how our office/brokers will be run.  If there is great resistance, and very intense negotiations, some of the AGE culture might survive.

The retention package will be finilized over the weekend, regional managers are flying to STL Sunday for meetings. I believe they'll come up with a solution that allows brokers to have a 1 year "free look" at the contract, where after you sign, you have one year to quit the deal and return the cash. This way they can say "guys, give us the benefit of the doubt... if you don't like our handling of the merger you can leave with no harm done." That's my guess.

Entire branches ARE planning on switching as a group (for the most part). Transactional branches to RBC Dain, Janney Montgomery, or another regional. Fee based branches are looking at RJ and LPL. Makes sense to me.

[quote=Sedona]

The retention package will be finilized over the weekend, regional managers are flying to STL Sunday for meetings. I believe they'll come up with a solution that allows brokers to have a 1 year "free look" at the contract, where after you sign, you have one year to quit the deal and return the cash. This way they can say "guys, give us the benefit of the doubt... if you don't like our handling of the merger you can leave with no harm done." That's my guess.

Entire branches ARE planning on switching as a group (for the most part). Transactional branches to RBC Dain, Janney Montgomery, or another regional. Fee based branches are looking at RJ and LPL. Makes sense to me.

[/quote]

Agreed to both. I have heard that you will NOT need to sign a contract, initially at least.  I also know that several BOM's are shopping entire branches as a group for potential leverage,

If WB is honestly hoping to get any benefit of the doubt from AGE brokers, they are in for a rude awakening. I think it’s safe to say that all the “benefit of the doubt” that existed with us before pretty much evaporated the morning of May 31st. However, they can probably buy some benefit of the doubt, but they better not be stingy about it.

[quote=CutterJon]

I'm wondering if the indy arm will be available to us immediately if we turn down retention deals?  Did they let Pru go that way off the bat?

[/quote]

When I tried to leave Pru for Indy Wachovia after the merger was announced, I was told all transfers to Wachovia were on hold for Pru guys wanting to leave.  I didn't stick around to see what happened and left in 2003 to Raymond James.  AGE should have sold out to RJ.  It would have been a much better fit for AGE. IMHI

 Wachovia is going to gut AG Edwards like a catfish.  After they get it into fillets they are going to start throwing big money at Edward Jones top management.  Edward Jones is not going to be able to hire anyone but what Wachovia doesn't try and recruit them with better salaries, bigger deferred comp, and the all-too-important job security. 

 You just wait and see.  If you think that having the second-largest brokerage firm in the US, based in St. Louis isn't going to have an impact on EDJ, just look at the Kool-Aid they fed to AGE employees and then pulled the rug on them. 

 If you think the same can't happen to Edward Jones, you need to take a serious look in the mirror, and think about your family.

 I'm going home and taking my ball with me.

 My damn feet hurt,

 ED

Ed, A pelican will skip over a traffic cone and make a sound like a Tasmanian Devil in heat, You just wait and see. (if you’re going to post nonsense, use some imagination!)

Sounds like it could be Thursday for those of us at AGE for the news.  They are working on details for teams, retirement, buy-outs ect……….. THIS IS TAKING FOREVER…..I HOPE THEY GET IT RIGHT!

JRW....

I was part of the PRU/WB deal.....they kept us on the hook from June until Novemeber when they rolled out the next yr's comp plan....I truly do hope they have something for you on Thursday other than "this will take some time because we want to get it right".....They want to keep you in "sit and wait" mode....

Goo Ruck

Omico

If they hold us off until the fall there will be NO ONE LEFT.  I have friends all of the country with offers in hand waiting for WB to put up or shut up.  ENTIRE offices are ready to LEAVE!  I am amazed at how little communication is coming out of St. Louis other than..."We want to get this right and what a great fit both orgs are".    Peoples lives are being rocked and a little communication would go a LONG WAY right now.  It amazes me that I am getting 3-4 packages a week from firms and hardly anything from my own company. 

I am a positive person and feel that is done right this thing "could" work but if they don't get on the ball there will be few left to take whatever deal they are going to serve up.

Every day that we come in and see “No Merger Updates at this Time” on top of our home page and several more solicitaions from competitors in the mail is one more increment of dollars we are all expecting from the WB retention package. If that package disapoints, even a little, WB’s going to have to settle with being the 4th or 5th largest retail brokerage.

I’m in agreement with JRW and Broker010.  While I completely understand that this whole process takes some time…I am begining to question Danny-Boy’s 3 Covenants.  Thank God for Amer Funds trails to get me off the mat for this month!

I am also making a concerted effort to stay positive, but I have to say this: Bob Bagby certainly took his very limited abilities and turned them into about $15,000,000.00. Not bad for a mental midget like him. When WB shows him the door (probably with another eight figures), he’ll look back fondly on this deal.