Under 400K Producers (MS)

Under 400K?

BS.

ML has the highest standards among the wires, and I guarantee you they aren’t going to be asking $350,000 producers to hit the bricks anytime soon.  So neither will MS.

If you produce $250,000 at any firm you are safe (except GS and the likes of course).

[quote=BankFC]BS.

ML has the highest standards among the
wires, and I guarantee you they aren’t going to be asking $350,000
producers to hit the bricks anytime soon.  So neither will MS.

If you produce $250,000 at any firm you are safe (except GS and the likes of course).



[/quote]



GS has a cool program.

I don’t know much about it, other than they cater to the UHNW set…care to elaborate?

I know a guy who works in a midwest market.  They paid him a fat
salary to get a program up and running, focussing on 10 mil plus
clients.  He went in and built a team, made basic presentations
and had portfolio managers come in as guns.  Within a couple years
he says he built an office with 1 bil in assets.  He now has 3
offices, NY, CA, and Chicago.  He is 35.

I don't know what everyone else thinks, but I wouldn't be surprised if Gorman tried to expand on the standards that he helped initiate at ML.

what were the goals at ML for different LOS’s?

mikebutler is in trouble.

What happens in August? What information do you base that statement on?

[quote=rightway]I know a guy who works in a midwest market.  They paid him a fat salary to get a program up and running, focussing on 10 mil plus clients.  He went in and built a team, made basic presentations and had portfolio managers come in as guns.  Within a couple years he says he built an office with 1 bil in assets.  He now has 3 offices, NY, CA, and Chicago.  He is 35. [/quote]

Geez...seriously, that is how it is done.  Nice to be him.

Man, things must be rough for that guy.  Next thing you know, he'll be homeless, shuffling along the sidewalk in tattered clothing humming the theme to Knight Rider to himself.

[quote=remotecontrol] mikebutler is in trouble. [/quote]

[quote=BrokerRecruit]

Man, things must be rough for that guy.  Next thing you know, he’ll be homeless, shuffling along the sidewalk in tattered clothing humming the theme to Knight Rider to himself.

[quote=fritz]start packing you duffle bags over at Morgan.  End of August is D-Day.  [/quote]

Gee, is this the 4th or 5th prediction of a cut at a level which would eliminate about 40% of the firm's brokers? It's pretty funny how little some people understand about the this business and about statistics. 

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=BrokerRecruit]

Man, things must be rough for that guy.  Next thing you know, he'll be homeless, shuffling along the sidewalk in tattered clothing humming the theme to Knight Rider to himself.

[/quote]

I hear that now he's a motivational speaker who lives in a van down by the river...
[/quote]

I LOVE that guy 

Went to early training with Sanchez, who was smarter than me and went into “management,” (didn’t too him too much good long term).  He mentioned layoffs last year in the 200-250 range, a few months before the ax fell (225,000).  On his way out the door last month mentioned 350,000 to 400,000 coming this year.  I am a 350,000 producer,  on his way out the door, basically told me "get to 400K soon or find another shop before the end of July.  Those of you who care, good luck…and those of you who work at Morgan and don’t believe it, you’ll be like the others last year who were told to hit the bricks (with about 5 seconds notice).  Would not have gone into this detail other than the stupid comment from the guy saying 250,000 is safe anywhere.

[quote=joedabrkr]

[quote=BrokerRecruit]

Man, things must be rough
for that guy.  Next thing you know, he’ll be homeless, shuffling
along the sidewalk in tattered clothing humming the theme to Knight
Rider to himself.

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=BrokerRecruit]

Man, things must be rough for that guy.  Next thing you know, he'll be homeless, shuffling along the sidewalk in tattered clothing humming the theme to Knight Rider to himself.

[/quote]

I hear that now he's a motivational speaker who lives in a van down by the river...
[/quote]

I LOVE that guy 

[/quote]

He's dead. I miss him and those like him who were done too soon.

"Went to early training with Sanchez, who was smarter than me and went into "management," (didn't too him too much good long term).  He mentioned layoffs last year in the 200-250 range, a few months before the ax fell (225,000).  On his way out the door last month mentioned 350,000 to 400,000 coming this year.  I am a 350,000 producer,  on his way out the door, basically told me "get to 400K soon or find another shop before the end of July.  Those of you who care, good luck....and those of you who work at Morgan and don't believe it, you'll be like the others last year who were told to hit the bricks (with about 5 seconds notice).  Would not have gone into this detail other than the stupid comment from the guy saying 250,000 is safe anywhere."

Such turmoil and uncertainty over there at good 'ol Morgan Stanley. What will the clients do when/if there is another cut??? Who will be able to help them???  So many unknowns.... Clients are aware of the turmoil and changes,etc.... Lets just say I have stepped up the communication with my 34 prospects who have MS. If/when the cuts are made, I will be sure to lob in a friendly call to see how they are doing....... ahhhh... business opportunity.... I LOVE IT.....

[quote=fritz]   on his way out the door, basically told me "get to 400K soon or find another shop before the end of July.  Those of you who care, good luck....and those of you who work at Morgan and don't believe it, you'll be like the others last year who were told to hit the bricks (with about 5 seconds notice).  .[/quote]

Two things. 1) There weren't many (if any) surprises with the last cut. They hit >LOS8 <225K in production. 2) A cut to $400k would take 50% or more of the brokers in the firm, and while not impossible, would be 180 degrees out of what everyone in the new team has been saying since day one.

I say we make it interesting and get some cash on the barrelhead.

[quote=blarmston]

 Lets just say I have stepped up the communication with my 34 prospects who have MS. If/when the cuts are made, I will be sure to lob in a friendly call to see how they are doing....... ahhhh... business opportunity.... I LOVE IT.....

[/quote]

Good luck with that. Then again, how many accounts from producers so low that they get cut do you want?

I was there and the 8 guys in my branch doing between 215,000 and 224,900 were very surprised.  And then surpised again when they could only get 5% deals since they were “out of work.”

The large top floor high rise MS office that I am in has window offices that are occupied by stacks of file boxes, no way they can cut ranks more and not frighten clients away. Even a major branch consolidation (which makes sense) will only fill the best offices, and there are not enough trainees surviving to fill cubicles. There are almost no trainees surviving these days at top tier firms, you have to look at a 1% book that will head to 1/2% in a few years for $1,000,000 clients, and $1,000,000 and up clients are the only clients that make sense for global top tier firms. If they cut to $400k the game would be over for MS. I think they will fix the retail side, then in a year or two get some growth going. MS can offer real value to UHNW clients.

[quote=fritz]I was there and the 8 guys in my branch doing between 215,000 and 224,900 were very surprised.  And then surpised again when they could only get 5% deals since they were "out of work."[/quote]

If they were doing under $225k with an LOS over 8 and had a 30 day warning of a cut coming (we got a month warning and knew 1000 were leaving), and they didn't see the big bulleye on their backs, I bet they're surprised by a great many things in life. Like the sun rising in the east every morning.

They should have known they were in the crosshairs and made other arrangements, even if only based on the risk.

"Good luck with that. Then again, how many accounts from producers so low that they get cut do you want? "

I actually got 2 nice accounts this past fall from MS clients whose brokers were fired. Even the biggest hack advisor at ANY firm has several good clients with nice accounts.... I am not speculating about layoffs with prospects, simply reaching out to them more often, so if/when there are layoffs who are they going to call- me ( someone who they have been speaking/meeting with) or the new MS FA who was handed their file????

[quote=blarmston]

"Good luck with that. Then again, how many accounts from producers so low that they get cut do you want? "

I actually got 2 nice accounts this past fall from MS clients whose brokers were fired. Even the biggest hack advisor at ANY firm has several good clients with nice accounts.... I am not speculating about layoffs with prospects, simply reaching out to them more often, so if/when there are layoffs who are they going to call- me ( someone who they have been speaking/meeting with) or the new MS FA who was handed their file????

[/quote]

My guess is it will be the new MS guy, but YMMV.  I don't disagree with your approach, though, I'd do the same thing. In fact, everytime a competator shows up in the WSJ (like the ML insider trading story that just broke) I call those folks I've been talking to that have accounts there. No one thing always works, most everything works at least a little.

What are the odds of keeping clients if you inherit them in a wire house?

"My guess is it will be the new MS guy, but YMMV.  I don't disagree with your approach, though, I'd do the same thing. In fact, everytime a competator shows up in the WSJ (like the ML insider trading story that just broke) I call those folks I've been talking to that have accounts there. No one thing always works, most everything works at least a little."

I agree that with everyone always messing up that there is opportunity. But comparing layoffs on a firmwide basis and 1 idiot 26 year old at ML and 2 idiots at Goldman doing a little insider trading for their personal accounts is a different story. That insder trading at ML was a blemish but it doesnt have profund effects on our business and strategy. I mean, a few years ago when Mass AG sued you guys for sales contests and pushing prop funds-thats one thing... Even then I didnt go around calling MS clients and letting then know that debacle..... All in all- its business and I understand that...

[quote=Greenbacks]

What are the odds of keeping clients if you inherit them in a wire house?

[/quote]

Pretty good, from my experience. Now, the question about whether you really want them or not is another one.

[quote=blarmston][quote=mikebutler222]

"My guess is it will be the new MS guy, but YMMV.  I don't disagree with your approach, though, I'd do the same thing. In fact, everytime a competator shows up in the WSJ (like the ML insider trading story that just broke) I call those folks I've been talking to that have accounts there. No one thing always works, most everything works at least a little."

[/quote]

There's nothing about laying off poor producers that has "profound effects" on any firm. It might have a profound effect on a few clients, but little more.

As to the insider trading thing, sorry, but I think you're wrong there. It's another black eye in a long list (not just for you, but for the industry) and this one is new and has ML and GS‘s names attached. It’s one thing when it’s years down the road from the event and the news is the legal or regulatory wrap-up of it. That's major, lay-offs are minor and don't suggest that there's an ethical problem, which is the sort of thing that shakes the confidence of clients. That's what the sales contest thing did to us, that's what the high-profile analyst thing did to ML and SB. And it does call into question business procedures at the firms involved.

I also agree with you about what to say when you call after a firm makes front page news (call center run amuck, sales contests, insider trading, whatever). You don't slam the firm, you don’t even mention it, you simply ask how they're doing. If they bring it up, fine, but be gracious. OTOH, it doesn't hurt to be there when it's news, especially if the news calls into question the ethics of the firm.

SECOND ATTEMPT...

[quote=blarmston]

I agree that with everyone always messing up that there is opportunity. But comparing layoffs on a firmwide basis and 1 idiot 26 year old at ML and 2 idiots at Goldman doing a little insider trading for their personal accounts is a different story. That insder trading at ML was a blemish but it doesnt have profund effects on our business and strategy. I mean, a few years ago when Mass AG sued you guys for sales contests and pushing prop funds-thats one thing... Even then I didnt go around calling MS clients and letting then know that debacle..... All in all- its business and I understand that...

[/quote]

There's nothing about laying off poor producers that has "profound effects" on any firm. It might have a profound effect on a few clients, but little more.

As to the insider trading thing, sorry, but I think you're wrong there. It's another black eye in a long list (not just for you, but for the industry) and this one is new and has ML and GS‘s names attached. It’s one thing when it’s years down the road from the event and the news is the legal or regulatory wrap-up of it. That's major, lay-offs are minor and don't suggest that there's an ethical problem, which is the sort of thing that shakes the confidence of clients. That's what the sales contest thing did to us, that's what the high-profile analyst thing did to ML and SB. And it does call into question business procedures at the firms involved.

I also agree with you about what to say when you call after a firm makes front page news (call center run amuck, sales contests, insider trading, whatever). You don't slam the firm, you don’t even mention it, you simply ask how they're doing. If they bring it up, fine, but be gracious. OTOH, it doesn't hurt to be there when it's news, especially if the news calls into question the ethics of the firm.

There's nothing about laying off poor producers that has "profound effects" on any firm. It might have a profound effect on a few clients, but little more.

As to the insider trading thing, sorry, but I think you're wrong there. It's another black eye in a long list (not just for you, but for the industry) and this one is new and has ML and GS‘s names attached. It’s one thing when it’s years down the road from the event and the news is the legal or regulatory wrap-up of it. That's major, lay-offs are minor and don't suggest that there's an ethical problem, which is the sort of thing that shakes the confidence of clients. That's what the sales contest thing did to us, that's what the high-profile analyst thing did to ML and SB. And it does call into question business procedures at the firms involved.

I also agree with you about what to say when you call after a firm makes front page news (call center run amuck, sales contests, insider trading, whatever). You don't slam the firm, you don’t even mention it, you simply ask how they're doing. If they bring it up, fine, but be gracious. OTOH, it doesn't hurt to be there when it's news, especially if the news calls into question the ethics of the firm"....

AGREED..... I share your thought that it never hurts to pick up the phone and call and it fhtey bring it up you go from there..... And the layoffs isnt an ethics thing its a business thing. The 2 account si landed last year were due to the FA being laid off and we were given a chance.

MB- youre a good guy and I do agree with your thoughts, even though you are at MS  Enjoy the long weekend.

[quote=blarmston]

MB- youre a good guy and I do agree with your thoughts, even though you are at MS  Enjoy the long weekend.

[/quote]

awww, now I'm getting misty....you too

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=blarmston]

MB- youre a good guy and I do agree with your thoughts, even though you are at MS  Enjoy the long weekend.

[/quote]

awww, now I'm getting misty....you too

[/quote]

I think we should all hold hands and sing "Kumbaya".....

No more Regional Vice Presidents.  Sales managers are next to go.

some are already quiting

[quote=frumhere]some are already quiting[/quote]

Not bad idea on their part, they saw the handwriting.  Goreman's made it pretty clear that there are all sorts of  management positions (and levels, for that matter) that are soon to be extinct.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

can any MS guy substantiate the under 400k rumor the forum is perpetuating?

no

I doubt the rumor is true. Imagine if it were, the $500k-$700k producers would be wondering if they were next. Too much instability among good producers.

I think they're done with the mass lay-offs. If this is true and they were smart, they would assure everyone left of this fact and get back to business.

The person that started this topic also said

that MS was going to have another round of

layoffs at the end of February. The end of Feb layoffs

were also suppose to be reliable because it came from a regional guy.

Can anyone confirm that at the manager's meeting in Florida last March, that Gorman stated he would NOT have done the mass layoff last summer?

Given that reported statement and the fact that Sanchez is gone, most people are betting ther will not be a layoff.  However I think at the same time everyone knows that the bar is being raised, and they should not be comfortable.

As far as sales managers, I would love to hear any more comments on that.  For that matter what is the sales management structure at ML that Gorman used?

[quote=doberman]

I think they're done with the mass lay-offs. If this is true and they were smart, they would assure everyone left of this fact and get back to business.

[/quote]

They have done what's possible to reassure everyone, but rumors jump up from the usual suspects. Some angry, some just guessing and some who have a profit motive.

I was at the broker meeting and he strongly said that there are no new mass lay offs coming.

mikebutler222

They have done what's possible to reassure everyone, but rumors jump up from the usual suspects. Some angry, some just guessing and some who have a profit motive.

---------------------------

Agreed. If I had to guess, I'd bet that the rumor started from someone who isn't with MS. Maybe a competitor or even a recruiter.

I’d be surprised if they did any more cuts.  Of course, anything can happen, but it seems to me that if they did anything (especially cutting $400k producers) it would spell disaster.

Heads are beginning to roll throughout the corporate structure.  Be thankful that we bring in revenue.  Overhead is getting slashed.