Roll Call- Who's Walking from MER

I’d visit another employment law attorney for a second opinion and if he/she has the same sentiment, I’d suggest you DON’T SIGN IT and seek another alternative for your own future.  You do have options, many actually and just be prudent and don’t “rush” into judgement would be my best advice.

What specifically is the language that is at issue?

Any official departures yet?

It SHOULD scare you.   The language of the letter says that - - - yes - - - you get a retention packaged that vests over several years - - - then it says that if you are fired - for any reason - including without cause (eg. they don't like the color of your wingtips) you forfeit any unvested portion of your package - - - and by the way - - - by signing the letter - - you also give up any FACAAP/wealthbuilder/growth award you would get if you were fired without cause due to a change in control.    Example - BofA gives you a 250,000 transition payable over three years.   You have $250,000 unvested FACAAP.   You sign the transition letter,  the next day they can RIF you and you lose the $250k transition AND you lose your $250k FACAAP.   Too bad, so sad.  

[quote=Bullroar]

20% of the FA headcount will be gone by 12/31. That’s my guess… I’m probably being conservative.  At least 60% in my office are “engaged” elsewhere. My guess is half will settle down, put their panties back on and drink the BofA Koolaid. That leaves a small group who will stay, not because they’re happy but because they lack the guts to make the jump or think they deserve 250% cash and fail to realize the stupid days are ending from a recruting standpoint. They’ll go shopping in 09’ when they get 100% offers at best and realize the opportunity passed them by.  

I will man up...I left MER.

Where did you land entry?

Based on what I’ve read above, no way would I sign that one-sided piece of crap.  Sounds like a typical bank-job to me.

Glad to see I'm not alone worried about this language.  Even the biggest, long time FAs are busy vetting offers from recruiters.  Everyone in our office is pursuing deals, and some are forming alliances or "teams" trying to bump their recruiting packages. It's like " Survivor: ML"

Personally, I think it’s sad. Merrill represented something on Wall Street. I think they were the most prestigious firm that served regular people (not many of our neighbors have Goldman, Lehman or Bear brokers). By losing Merrill, I think our industry has lost something. Hopefully, BAC sells them off again somewhere down the road. But it may be too late then…

The next three Fridays sure will be interesting.  I'm also curious as to where most of the guys go, assuming they do leave.  Indy or another brokerage?

You really think any big producers will have their deals in place by the next few weeks? I guess if they just walk to another BD (who???), but if they go indy, the process is probably a bit more involved. No?

Don’t think the movement will be immediately apparent, bondo.  Those with sense will plan their move properly, which generally takes a while.  But most who are planning on leaving have likely begun to put the wheels in motion, to various degrees.

It will come, just not on the time frame you suggest.

What’s your impression of guys who don’t sign the retention package by the 14th and are still at work come the 17th?

Many of us are wondering what happens if we choose not to sign the document and stay at ML?

I’m in a very high profile, longstanding ML office and most people are talking openly about who they’re meeting with, etc. I know a lot of great 1st and 2nd quintile FAs doing less than $1 million who will be leaving. It’s sad to see the culture destroyed so quickly. When it comes down to it, guys like McCann and Sontag may put up a front that they care but at the end of the day, they can retire tomorrow very rich men.

I have not seen the ML document so I cannot comment on it specifically.  However, no one  can be coerced into signing effectively a new employment agreement, and to sign anything simply because you think you have no alternative would certainly be unwise.  My experience with AGE/WB was they offered enhanced terms (upfront loan) if you signed the document; those who didn’t by default were paid retention on an annual cash basis.

If they haven’t clearly spelled out your alternatives should you wish not to sign, you should immediately hire an attorney who can advise you specifically.  This is no time to be penny wise and pound foolish. 

Good luck.

Any movement this week?  Nothing around my place.

No movement in our office but many excellent FAs are speaking openly about their plans to leave. ML will not be the same as the best and brightest walk out the door. It’s a shame.

No movement this Friday, but many of the guys in our office are feverishly meeting with the competition- one guy had dinner, breakfast, and lunch meetings the last couple of days....he says he is a free agent and will make his decision this upcoming week, and be gone by the 14th.  I am in a pretty good sized office and everyone seems to be highly engaged with the competition.....I have to admit I don't feel any loyalty anymore- really sad.

I will say the people who are the most active about their options in my office are the biggest producers.  The small and medium sized guys seem content to stick around and take their chances.  The odd thing is the medium size guys have been in the business longer than half of the big producers.  I think they are content to slowly increase their business, while the big guys are not satisified with being average or close to it.

For the long-term, mid-level producers, it makes sense. They probably don’t do much heavy lifting anymore, so why not just take some cash to sit and do the same thing, and not worry about moving your book?

No movement in our office but many excellent FAs are speaking openly about their plans to leave. ML will not be the same as the best and brightest walk out the door. It’s a shame.

It would be good to see the big producing ML guys get some entrepreneurial spirit, not take it up the pie hole from Ken Lewis, and cut their own deals.  The quote by the billion dollar team that they could have gotten twice as much as Ray Jay gave was impressive I thought.

Gekko, can you elaborate on that situation? What happened specifically with the team in question?

Gekko, can you elaborate on that situation? What happened specifically with the team in question?

“We are not going because of the paycheck,’’ Mr. Nemes said, noting that they received “less than half of what we could have gotten somewhere else.”

I was only off by $500 million in terms of AUM but their quote (listed above) was spot on.

That’s a great story. I’m an ex BofA employee from another department and can tell this is just not going to work in any way. It will either become a huge disaster or eventually lead to a situation similar to Schwab in which the firm is eventually spun off.

BAI was trying to recruit me a while back and everything they promised in terms of leveraging the “size and scope” didn’t come to fruition, at least for a co-worker who went there and has since left to go indy. 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out- is this all a lot of talk or will people really leave.  One things for sure, McCann & Sontag have clearly demonstrated their loyalty is to Ken Lewis and not the FAs.  Screw them.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/27514835
Article says 20-30% Merrill brokers may walk…

[quote=Phan2om]It will be interesting to see how this plays out- is this all a lot of talk or will people really leave.  [/quote] 

My guess is that the FA’s that are really goal-oriented and want to grow their practices will seriously consider leaving (either to go indy or another firm).

There has been a lot of talk in my office and also the other offices in my complex.  What I find to be amazing is how candid every FA seems to have been about the offers they are receiving.  While no one has said that they are leaving, they have certainly checked out what else is out there.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

What I’ve been hearing is that the problem isn’t just the money; it’s the contract that they have to sign.  Most everyone expects that BoA will slowly reduce payout but the bigger problem would be if BoA took Merrill out of the protocol network.  The way that the contract is worded, the departing advisor would not be able to contact any of their clients once ML is removed from the protocol network.  Wouldn’t the same problem exist if a ML advisor went to LPL or some other non-protocol place?

--WM

[quote=WealthManager]</O:P>

What I’ve been hearing is that the problem isn’t just the money; it’s the contract that they have to sign.  Most everyone expects that BoA will slowly reduce payout but the bigger problem would be if BoA took Merrill out of the protocol network.  The way that the contract is worded, the departing advisor would not be able to contact any of their clients once ML is removed from the protocol network.  Wouldn’t the same problem exist if a ML advisor went to LPL or some other non-protocol place?[/quote]

does anyone "know" what happens if someone desides NOT to sign the agreement?

[quote=shredder]

does anyone "know" what happens if someone desides NOT to sign the agreement?

[quote=conage][quote=shredder]

does anyone "know" what happens if someone desides NOT to sign the agreement?

At least one guy in my office who was spitting nails when the package came out now sounds as if he is not going anywhere.  It would surprise me if he leaves although his departure would be understandable, as would it be for another quarter of the office.

Some friends of mine from the Quick & Reilly merger refused or stalled in signing a new non-compete (tied in with a pretty bad retention bonus) with B of A.  They were never explicitly threatened but they were harrassed endlessly (phone calls, visit by management).  End result was that they signed.  No one that I knew actually pushed it to the point of getting fired or left alone.

So, if BAC signs the protocol or MER states that it still appliers to MER brokers how much does that change the landscape? If you are a MER rep, does it change your feelings about whether to stay or go?

In other words, what is the protocol worth to you as a rep?

So, if BAC signs the protocol or MER states that it still appliers to MER brokers how much does that change the landscape? If you are a MER rep, does it change your feelings about whether to stay or go?

In other words, what is the protocol worth to you as a rep?

So far no one has left from my branch or complex.  I originally thought that today would be the exit day for some.  Now that BoA in joining protocol I don’t think that there will be that large of an exodus today.  Any exits from other branches yet?<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

--WM

Update: It’s Friday and we just saw our first departure. 2 man team, took their admin as well. $1.3M t-12.  I hear they got 140% up, 100+ back end.  Who’s next?? 

Are any of you from NYC branches?

[quote=WealthManager]

Any exits from other branches yet?<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 [/quote]

Just confirmed a rumor I heard earlier today. 

Oakland CA- largest team in the office left today.  I don’t know details about where they went, but it’s shocked folks. I heard from a guy in another Bay Area office, and I’m nowhere near there. He’s telling me he hears everyone he knows in his office is in negotiations.

The biggest team in our branch left yesterday for UBS. Total of 4 members. One member with 20+ LOS.

UBS has been very aggressive lately! 

UBS could go under they are no different then any other poorly run crap house!  

We lost 2 teams today. Each with over 1 billion AUM.

Still no movement in our office.  My director told me yesterday that they were amending the agreement to include protocol language and define other terms- then he asked me why I hadn’t signed yet.  I told him I’ve just been too busy with clients to focus.  He pressed me and said “most people have already signed he agreement.” I KNOW this is bulls$*t in my office.  Does anyone else have a sense how many people have signed the agreement. No one is signing and they are going to start pressuring for signatures.

Large team in Nashville ($3 + MM) left for UBS.  ATL is losing some to UBS.  I heard the top 400 Banc of Merrillika producers are being hosted in Orlando to be shown some love. 

In the last 2 months, our complex #1 ($2MYN) to Morgan, a 2 man team, about 1.2 combined leaving next fri.  I’m gone after FCAAP in Jan.  More to come.

I am over 25 yrs here, it’s not Merrill Lynch anymore.  Figure i’d go before the deals start to come down, still got over 200%.

So you’re leaving and getting 200%?  What is your trailing 12?

525

So you’re getting 200 to leave, versus 50 to stay (25 upfront plus the 25% growth award)?  That’s a tough decision.  If your book is portable and you don’t have loyalty to ML, go and good luck to you.  I am hoping ML gets back to normal after the merger is done.  I think it will be more normal than most people think.  Most of my office, which is among the top 5 highest producing offices in the firm, is staying.

200% if you go, a pat on the back in you stay. Done deal!

I just dont feel like it’s the same firm that hired me.  I also think that they die is cast for the new comp plan favoring along the same lines as the retention deal.  As far as loyalty, i used to feel that it went both ways, but it’s no longer the case.

Besides, when i did a review of my book, 19 of my top 20 HH have been w/me over 20 years.  I just figure, that everyone should monetize they’re book at least once in a career.  My thinking at the moment is, i’ll get paid now, and in 8 - 10 years, paid again as i make my retirement plans and sell the book to  someone. 

Admittedly, i NEVER thought i’d ever leave.  Thank you Stanley. 

"I am hoping ML gets back to normal after the merger is done.  I think it will be more normal than most people think. "

For thos eof you have left in the last few years and those thinking of leaving soon, I would appreciate your thoughts on the relative postives and negatives of UBS and SMith Barney relative to ML and to each other. I’d particularly be interested to hear your opinions on comparisons of these firms’ platforms, technology (reporting, desktop, financial planning, etc), quality of FAs/management(branch and divisional), culture, focus and future direction. We are about a $1.5 million team in the NY area mostly annuitized with sophisticated clients. Thanks.

I was at ML and am now at UBS.  I am a planner and I think the planning platform is a lot better.  (I am a CFP so I have direct access to a very high level program - otherwise they have to do it for you). The technology is different but works fine.  I guess my thinkg is if I notice the technology from a standpoint of why it won’t do this or that, then it is a problem.  If I don’t notice anything then it works fine.  They have all kinds of ways to analyze and slice and dice, some that I use, some I don’t.  The culture in the back office is supportive.  People take ownership of issues that need to be resolved.  There are always exceptions though.  My view of senior management is that they sure are quiet during this mess.  I guess if I look at it - quiet versus a lie from the captain of Titanic.  Anyway, there does not seem to be this constant push to do it “their way”.  It seems to me their way is to help if you need it, stay out of the way if you do not.  

[quote=cubfan1404]So you’re getting 200 to leave, versus 50 to stay (25 upfront plus the 25% growth award)?  That’s a tough decision.  If your book is portable and you don’t have loyalty to ML, go and good luck to you.  I am hoping ML gets back to normal after the merger is done.  I think it will be more normal than most people think.  Most of my office, which is among the top 5 highest producing offices in the firm, is staying.[/quote]

If I were you, I would question whether or not “back to normal” is a good thing, given Mother’s history over the last 2-3 years.

{Personally, I hope ya’ll stay and don’t change anything…makes for easy hunting for guys like me. }

On UBS



Offering highest deal 265% (165% upfront) If you are in 1st Quintile for your LOS assets or Revenues. Otherwise 240% (140% upfront)



From a major wealth management full service stand point UBS is repairing the fastest as they dealt with Sub Prime early. Also they are largest wealth manager in world with 3 Trillion in AUM and have one of the highest tier 1 ratios. No plans to be a US commercial bank or merge / buy one so will look the most like the former large sacle firms (MER, MS) You will see UBS snag a lot of MER teams.



UBS also just increased comp plan, one great feature for teams is that all team members are paid at highest producers grid point (500k guy is paid at his 1MM partners breakpoint).

From a culture standpoint, i wonder if every place has the “us versus them” mentality that MER has adopted when it comes to compliance issues.  My first sales manager told me (about 25 years ago) that at Merrill, “you’re brought up with severe toilet training”.  It’s gotten to the point of ridiculous when they have client and employee data compromised (several times), but you can’t deposit a check for $10 made out to my infant son into my own CMA account.

Your “easy hunting” is not from my book.  My team manages about 1 Billion and have not seen a single ACATs form in six months.  I know you guys hate Merrill but you’re crazy to think the firm is dead.  When the dust settles we’ll still be the home to more $1 Million producers than any place else, although admittedly fewer than before.

you guys don’t know just how abnormal it will be! you’re kidding yourselves.

your brand name is worthless. that’s wy bac got you for 50 bil. it should have been 2 bil.

Anyone else have any more thoughts on ML vs UBS vs Smith Barney as the best  place, platform, management, and focus for continuing to build a good and growing practice into a a much larger one over the next 10 years? We’re weighing whether we’re better staying at ML where we will maintain all of our clients and where we can keeping growing quickly as we know the platform, people, etc and leaving to either UBS or smith Barney where we’ll get more $ up front but will need to get familiar with all we’d be leaving behind. Seems to us the key is not the $ up front, but where can you grow a high quality business the fastest. We appreciate your feedback.

EZ, they got them for .8595 shares of BAC (per MER share) on deal closing date.  When the deal was announced, BAC was trading such that it meant about $29 per share.  Chargeoffs, loan loss provisions, shareholder dillution (with more to come) and a little thing about a 50% dividend cut puts the deal on Friday’s close at (BAC = 20.49 * .8595 = $17.611.  MER outstanding = 1.6 Billion shares (per Google Finance).   1.6 Billion * 17.611 = $28,177,848,000) $28.2 Billion.

One positive for moving is that MER has such a dominating presence of affluent households in my area that all these prospects that were off limits will now be fair game.

overpaid for that crap boat if you ask me!

Gentlemen and Gentlewomen:

Daytradah:

[quote=daytradah]Gentlemen and Gentlewomen:

For the record - I left BAI and took a goodly piece of my book when the were a non-protocol signer. I got a letter that hurt my feelings but that was it. Of the clients I did not keep - The bank had them convinced that their loans would be looked at (illegal but it happens) or the new guy said some caca which wasn’t true and I did not bother to correct it since the client appeared lemmingish. The bank has a hold of some clients but not all. I had a successful transition with no TRO or any other problems.



I still think working for BofA is a mistake, but I do not agree with Daytradah that they have you by the shorties. Unless of course you are a day trader.

Bancofamigo-



Great point, I recently had a prospect who was a small business owner with an account at BAI. The prospect was ready to move his brokerage account and after submitting the paperwork the client called me upset because BAC was going to pull his lines of credit if he moved his brokerage accounts.

"Great point, I recently had a prospect who was a small business owner
with an account at BAI. The prospect was ready to move his brokerage
account and after submitting the paperwork the client called me upset
because BAC was going to pull his lines of credit if he moved his
brokerage accounts"

I’ve heard this story more than once lately.  I have a very large potential client I’ve been working on for months. He’s been stalling me for weeks now. I just found out he’s probably out for good after his partner told me about some issues on business lines of credit with BofA last year.  Word is they won’t do business with any entity related to the bank.

I can’t confirm the validity but I heard some of the following:<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

The ML “transition” packages were offered to 53% of advisors that generate 78% of the business.

The new comp is expected to favor the top tier advisors and potentially alienate the lower tier advisors.  This is consistent with the “grow or go” emphasis that I’ve heard discussed.

Only about 20% of the Bank of America advisors will move over to Merrill Lynch.  I don’t know what this means for the other BoA advisors.  Will they remain in branches?  Are some of their advisors a cross between a teller and an advisor?  What’s the structure like at BoA?

BoA will retain control of Human Resources and Information Technology.  I wonder if this means that they will shut down either the <?: prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Jacksonville, FL or Hopewell, NJ ML campuses. 

--WM

[quote=WealthManager]

The new comp is expected to favor the top tier advisors and potentially alienate the lower tier advisors.  This is consistent with the “grow or go” emphasis that I’ve heard discussed.

 [/quote]

Bondo, those guys should absolutely leave. The bank is always all about “right here, right now.” That will never, ever change. They live for quarterly earnings. They will move CD rates, loan rates within the end of the month to hit “goal” just to say they did it and worry about the bottom line later. Case in point - they moved deposit rates down one quarter I was there for businesses, then upped their “risk free” CD rate (buy a 9 month CD with a 7 day lockup then no penalty for early withdrawal) that might be competitive. They chase off their core deposit base by shaving a few bps then come back soon after with some stupid teaser rate for the money that is always moving form bank to bank (non-core deposits). All just so they can hit a number by quarter end. Miserable way for the bankers to maintain business when things used to be competitive. Recognize what I am explaining, this is their mindset. Right here, right NOW. There maybe a few guys moving up like a rocket to the “line” but there are not enough to justify their modis operandi. It is a loss they can live with.



I was talking to a ML guy who was asking about BofA. He mentioned the frog in a pot of boiling water analogy we have bantered about. He brought up a fable of the frog who took a scorpion across a river. The frog asked the scorpion to not sting him if he took him across, to which the scorpion agreed. When the frog reached the other side, the scorpion stung him. The frog asked why? The scorpion replied, “I am a scorpion, it is my nature.”

Admin - I have never heard of that as far as the being so plain about it.  It is more subtle.  Either way, it is what the client understands.  They figure the line could be called, not renewed, lowered or the rate jacked up - if they move.  Some think this way.  There are some bankers who do not know that twisting is illegal and they are a little more cluelessly brazen.  Others who know what is going on but push things to the edge are craftily subtle.

Hear from a friend that over 20 from ML to UBS this weekend in Florida. Recruiting people to fly down from all over the east coast to help open new accounts. Al;l expences paid, including GOOD hotels!!

Yes I had a prospect who was a small business owner with lines of credit at Bank of America. After signing the transfer paperwork and starting the ACAT, the bank told him if he did move his account to Merrill from BAI he would no longer have his lines of credit.

I had a couple like that - but I moved the lines and they were on better terms (securities based lending). BofA will not do this kind of lending except for margin. They will do it only for a business purpose. Long story short - it took some doing, but I got better loan terms and moved the lines and the assets.

Anyone know the Bank of America FA Payout?

We left today to go to UBS. 1.1 million team w/ 80 million in production.

oops assets.

Good luck guys.

Good luck.  How are you doing 1.1 Million on only 80 Million in assets? 

The BAI payout is anywhere from 15 to 25% less than ML’s depending upon where you are in production and LOS. The kicker is the complete lack of a worthwhile deferred comp. The “Discretionary Bonus” is funded in part by reducing grid on 12b-1 fees (A’s, B’s and C’s) to 25%. Then after you do a number of other non revenue oriented tasks they have the discretion of paying you the “award”. The discretion is whether or not 5 layers up think the business unit did all that it could do in their estimation. Growth and profitability of the FA are not relevant pieces of the consideration of the discretion.



I would not worry that the ML’ers will go there immediately. It will take a couple of years. They call it simplifying the plan and making it more fair for your team (translated - bring your comp down to the bankers’). That is why you here the frog analogies. There is the frog in a pot of water on the stove, but better is the frog carrying the scorpion across the river. The scorpion says I won’t sting you if you take me across. But does, responding, “Because it is my nature.”

bancofamigo: He probably brought up that analogy based on having read an excellent autobiography by Sal Lauria called “The Scorpion and the Frog”, a novel based on his time at a few boiler room firms affiliated with the mob and subsequent arrest for activities conducted in this capacity. Many of the same firms from “Born to Steel” by Gary Weiss are also chronicled in “Scorpion and the Frog.” The book is out of print although it’s easy to get a used copy on Amazon. I just picked it up about six months ago.

We’re 98% fee based on our accounts and run our own stock strategy. PIA at ML PMP at UBS. And the assets were at 100 million at the beginning of the year.

Thanks Dr. X. The scorpion and frog is also an Aesop Fable.

Nov 14 (Reuters) - Ninety percent of Merrill Lynch & Co Inc financial advisers who were offered bonuses to stay on with Bank of America Corp had signed up for them as of late Thursday, the Wall Street Journal said, citing people familiar with the firm.

Last month, BofA reached out to Merrill Lynch's 15,500 financial advisers, offering retention packages to the group which the bank has described as Merrill's "crown jewel".

Friday is the deadline for the brokers to accept the offer, the paper said.

No one at Bank of America could immediately be reached for comment.

I still have not heard what happens if you don’t sign…?

Probably a good proxy of where this market is going (down).  FAs rather take the $$ NOW (and leaving clients out of the equation) then make a go at it at a different firm.

[quote=Merrill]

Nov 14 (Reuters) - Ninety percent of Merrill Lynch & Co Inc financial advisers who were offered bonuses to stay on with Bank of America Corp had signed up for them as of late Thursday, the Wall Street Journal said, citing people familiar with the firm.

Last month, BofA reached out to Merrill Lynch's 15,500 financial advisers, offering retention packages to the group which the bank has described as Merrill's "crown jewel".

Friday is the deadline for the brokers to accept the offer, the paper said.

No one at Bank of America could immediately be reached for comment.

If they don’t sign then they may not participate in distributions.

I heard today is the deadline to sign.  A friend of mine at ML said they were getting a LOT of pressure to sign the past week or two.

Wow! I am glad I am indy,this market is tough enough let alone being thrown out like trash by your BD  

So the choice is to sign and maybe stick around to get something, or refuse to sign and call attention to the fact that you are definitely leaving?  That’s the choice?!

And BOA releases a press release bragging that 90% of the ML FAs had signed?!?!  Isn’t the bigger news that a full 10% are so pissed they are willing to spit in BOA’s face to voice their anger?? That doesn’t bode well for their likely attrition.  I wonder what percentage of those who have signed are halfway out the door but simply keeping a low profile until they are safely out?

It ain’t over til the fat lady sings …

Just saw the last guy sign that we thought might be moving. Noone in my complex made the move.  I think if the Dow was significantly higher, the migration to other firms would be going full force.  However, if the Dow was significantly higher, the BAC deal would have never happened.

Does it really matter if they sign?  Now that the protocol issue has been resolved then why not sign?<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

--WM

WealthMngr:

love the grindhouse analogy its right on except that its not hamburger that comes out at the end.  they will take the high quality brokers and over time turn them into hotdogs in the end… and we all know whats inside hotdogs, right?

No one jumped in my office, yet.  I still expect people to leave but slower and more methodically.

“Build it and they will come.”   As BOA “builds” the Wal-Mart of banking, i’m sure there will be more defections, never mind the 60% that they don’t care about.  To me, as a long termer @ MER, it’s the loss of dignity that ranks up at the top. 

We’ll be the “Breed Apart” that has our pens attached to the desk with the little chain-y things.  That’s dignity alright.

you guys are wrong about the protocol. It has never been succesfully challenged as long as an advisor follows the rules.



As for the MER retention agrement why not sign it? now that they added the protocol paragraph you can leave anytime. The MER guys coming to my office have signed it.

No one in my complex to left to our surprise.   We thought we were going to have a few leave just from my office not to mention my complex.  Everyone was very suspicious of anyone walking in to the managers office.  But at the end of the day… No one walked.  Very interesting.

I don’t think yesterday was the line in the sand.  Most of the FAs in my office that didn’t receive a package are gone, but there was no deadline for them to sign, so they are taking the time to organise their departure.  The second set of FAs that received some retention, but not a big package, are waiting to see what the new compensation plan looks like.  Most of these people are also in negotiations, but whether they stay or go depends on the comp plan.  Finally, the senior people signed because they had protocol.  I think most of them (me included) are waiting to see how this goes (and how things go with our competitors) but what’s different now is that we all have lines of communication open with the competition.

Aside from keeping things together, do you think that ML Managers are being incented to keep the herd together?

Aside from keeping things together, do you think that ML Managers are being incented to keep the herd together?

“Build it and they will come.”   As BOA “builds” the Wal-Mart of banking, i’m sure there will be more defections, never mind the 60% that they don’t care about.  To me, as a long termer @ MER, it’s the loss of dignity that ranks up at the top. 

We’ll be the “Breed Apart” that has our pens attached to the desk with the little chain-y things.  That’s dignity alright.

When I was at the bank, they pulled the where is your name-tag? caca on me routinely. I always responded that I was waiting for the embroidered name-tag on my shirt. I would laugh and they would look unmoved.   Most did not wear it though, like me.



I think if the market weren’t so cruddy, there would have already been more defections. The comp will go down, the bank will place restrictions and non-revenue oriented goals on FA’s - but the market will get better and the rest of the FA’s will slowly leave. Unfortunately, for those who have waited, the deals are drying up for most and going down for the rest.

My partner and I moved Thursday and have not had one question from clients about the bad market. Most are with us for the relationship they have with us.



I was LOS 6 w/ 500+ in PC’s and this was my first move. I had always been told that clients are loyal to ML and not to the advisor. 90% of clients said they were with ML because of me, not because of the firm.



My advise is to ask your clients what they think of Bank of America…most hated the bank and this shocked me. I heard story’s of bad customer service, clients who had terrible times with the mortgage company and people who pulled the banking relationship because they do not like BAC. We do not have BAC offices locally and this shocked me.



Don’t be afraid to make the move.

There have been no defections from my complex yet.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

--WM

My partner and I moved Thursday and have not had one question from clients about the bad market. Most are with us for the relationship they have with us.

I was LOS 6 w/ 500+ in PC’s and this was my first move. I had always been told that clients are loyal to ML and not to the advisor. 90% of clients said they were with ML because of me, not because of the firm.

My advise is to ask your clients what they think of Bank of America…most hated the bank and this shocked me. I heard story’s of bad customer service, clients who had terrible times with the mortgage company and people who pulled the banking relationship because they do not like BAC. We do not have BAC offices locally and this shocked me.

Don’t be afraid to make the move.

We had 2 leave on Thursday 11/14… think they clicked ‘accept’??    I understand they both went to UBS. These guys were LOS < 10, doing $600 ish and $730 or so. Both were probably the top of their POA classes when they came on.  ML is loosing their future if loads of these type of guys leave. 

There was a small 3 person Merrill office in my town.  As of Friday, all 3 of them packed up and moved to RBC.

We had 2 leave on Thursday 11/14… think they clicked ‘accept’??    I understand they both went to UBS. These guys were LOS < 10, doing $600 ish and $730 or so. Both were probably the top of their POA classes when they came on.  ML is loosing their future if loads of these type of guys leave. 

Attention All Top Producing MER advisors:

Your book will look like chop suey when they start forcing you to steer your biggest and best clients to US Trust......Just you wait and see.  They will narrow your book down to the Premiere level which is $250,000 to $3M.  Anything above that gets moved up.....

How do you like them Apples...you might not like them Sour Granny Smiths....

Palm Beach ML complex Manager Resigned…going to UBS.

We’ve lost a few.  Mostly 4th and 5th quintilers.  Nobody who will be missed.  And guess what?  The accounts are STAYING.  I’ve retained $5MM so far of inherited accounts.  Not a single ACAT yet, after 2 weeks.

In other words, if you have ownership of your book you retain a 2 -3 times gross retirement asset when you are ready to hang it up.

And I fogot to mention you can also grow your OWN business through acquisition and create a much larger retirement asset

Daytradah- I think ur right.  Even though I’m at the top quintile, I truly think it’s only a matter of time before i get F$$ked-  anyone with a brain must see what’s coming.  To me it’s really a matter of “Pick Ur Pain: Now or Later”

And one other thing.  My guess is that we lose about 1/3 of our FAs.  We have only had a couple people leave so far, but i think our office will lose allot over the next couple months.  ML management is arrogant and out of touch.

Question for those who have been around long enough to see advisors leave and take over those accounts. What percentage of those clients you retained at the firm would follow you to another firm if they did not follow their original advisor when he left?  Cubfan mentioned keeping 5mm in accounts.  How much of that would go with him a year down the road if he left.

I assume significantly less than 50% of the AUM. I think FAs who accumulate a lot of assets through that method become tied to their firm for that reason…although if done right, an FA can “own” those relationships over time. But definitely a whole different ballgame from developing your own.

take it from someone who’s been there. you are fu@ked if you stay.

Daytradah (terrible name, fyi) says I am a fool for staying w/o a retention package.  But I did get a retention package!  A six-figure up-front awaits me in a matter of a few weeks, and I didn’t have to change my office address, my phone number, my assistant or my parking space in order to get it.

[quote=iceco1d]In case you aren’t following along cubfan, the answer to your question is “Because THEY aren’t the same “THEY” anymore!” 

cubfan, your stupidity amazes me. Your big miscue, and this explains the stupidity/failure of ml because their own people can’t see the forest from the trees. They and you are no longer ml! you are BAC baby and all that great money you are about to receive has as many strings attached to it as the dollar bills in it.

hey cubfan,

SWHFTM, I agree with you. However, and this will shock you, trying to convince a broker that they are 180 degrees off base is not going to happen.

I want to get something straight for the record: ML FA’s who are supposed t get a retention bonus had a deadline to sign the document. They have no idea about the new comp plan (but rumor for what it is worth says it will be a pay cut). AND they just received notice that the payment will come after the deal closes? What am I missing? I have pictures from my Masters trips too, but they start to get a little dusty after a while.

cubfan:

You will be working for someone who needs you to complete data entry so their report can be sent to the next clown who never sold anything, so they can tweak and massage the numbers, to get it up to their regional drone, who cooks the numbers for the district slob, who then completely bakes the souffle so the CEO shyts his depends over how much money you made versus the bank

Its hard to image because your frame of reference is wholly absent of any experience working in a large bank. You are entering into a world where people are seekers of security in the form of a monthly predictable paycheck. Anyone crazy enough to live off of commissions may get lucky a month or too but they will be damn if you are going to make fools of their underachievement.

They are not risk takers by definition and DNA. You will be describing the wonderful colors of the rainbow to people who see only shades of gray.  They will see you as out of the norm and spoiled and overpaid.

Did he leave twice and tell BAC to kiss it or did Freddie Mac poison any return trip to the Death Star?

For the second time in four years, veteran banker Eugene McQuade is opting not to forge a career at Bank of America Corp. after it buys his current employer.

Mr. McQuade, 62, the head of banking at Merrill Lynch & Co., is to leave Bank of America next spring, a Merrill spokeswoman said. He joined Merrill in February after resigning from Freddie Mac the previous fall. Mr. McQuade had been heir apparent for the CEO's job.

In 2004, he left Bank of America after the Charlotte company bought FleetBoston Financial Corp., where he had been the president.

Last week a Merrill spokeswoman said Mr. McQuade was unavailable to comment

[quote=daytradah]

cubfan:

You will be working for someone who needs you to complete data entry so their report can be sent to the next clown who never sold anything, so they can tweak and massage the numbers, to get it up to their regional drone, who cooks the numbers for the district slob, who then completely bakes the souffle so the CEO shyts his depends over how much money you made versus the bank

Its hard to image because your frame of reference is wholly absent of any experience working in a large bank. You are entering into a world where people are seekers of security in the form of a monthly predictable paycheck. Anyone crazy enough to live off of commissions may get lucky a month or too but they will be damn if you are going to make fools of their underachievement.

They are not risk takers by definition and DNA. You will be describing the wonderful colors of the rainbow to people who see only shades of gray.  They will see you as out of the norm and spoiled and overpaid.

Well, what did they say?

Mucho:

Let me give you one for old time sake.

Good morning everyone we have WONDERFUL News. We are revising our 2009 comp plan to create the most lucrative payout in the industry. As a leader in delivering the ultimate client experience (well, next to Space Mountain in Disneyworld) we are REALIGNING our compensation to reflect new industry metrics and the current FACAPAPU line up.

You will make more money in 2009 than you did in 2008 under the new comp plan. You will not receive this additional compensation until you need a bottle of viagra just to piss when you are forking 82 years OLD...AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

Skrew YOu BAC   I am laughing my ass off at that gobbledegook you will be force feeding the MER lemmings.

you guys can always go independent like me and be your own boss…I prefer not to sell risk only guarantees with insurance companies…some agents make in excess of $2million a year and they sleep at night knowing no one controls them

bravo <SPAN id=userPro116721 =msgSidePro title=“View Drop Down” =“showDropDown’userPro116721’, ‘proMenu116721’, 160, 0;”>daytradah. you must have worked for them also.

Whalehunter… I almost expected you to bring up those damn “TPS” reports! Anyone want to understand the culture at BofA and the future at ML?  Just toss your old Office Space DVD on the player tonight and enjoy.  

we should start a seperate thread authored by ex baisi reps to swap stupid experiences at bac. call it office space.

Here, picture this for the opening scene (true story in 2005, the era of low rates):

We have had one office completely implode and another office that is bleeding slowly. In total between the two offices in our complex we have had about 14 advisors leave and they have mostly been 1st and 2nd quintile producers. People are getting anxious around here.

Office Space  i love that movie!!! what a great idea about a new thread.  Perhaps we should swap stories about BofA & ML and check out the similarities…I bet there are many.

That’d be great!

The MD from ML’s biggest office in the country was fired yesterday along with one of the admin managers. Unbelievable.

Office Space had to be written by an ex BAC employee that was driven to crank out a screenplay so he wouldnt blow his brains out.

All large companies are basically adult daycare pods for 80% of the employees who drool on their keyboards, text their bookies, and try to score a date with the hot "cubie" down the hall. BAC is the prototype of a wastrel zombie corp.

You have the pathetic middle 10 layers of VP level management who are the most loathesome of all. Simply promoted because they are sadists who could not be shamed or humiliated away from their "career" aspirations at the company. They were going to last 10 years no matter how much of their personality or basic humanity had to be sacrificed. Can't or didnt sell anything ever(except their soul to the co.)  Secretly or overtly resents those who can sell and dont need their "expertise" to succeed.  And is always fearful because they are kept one phone call away from getting shown the door by the next goon above them. 

Its pure soviet style Politbeureau insanity. 

Dont worry MER brokers you will learn to love it. But you certainly wont be able to leave it.

Saveteran: was this SD? (flagship office downtown NYC?)- details?

It was the 5th Ave office. The MD and Admin swept a large error under the rug and they did not report it to FINRA.

The position is already posted.  Interesting, the talk around the region was that he just had it and walked in and resigned.

So which one is it? He resigned or the whole error thing?

I know for a fact that it was the error although, being sick of this whole thing would make sense. I’m fed up with everything at ML right now.

On a different note, did y’all see the story today that the head (which was #2 into the acquisition) of US Trust resigned? Now Keith Banks, a banker no less, runs US Trust. This proves my point many moons ago that BofA looks at all acquisitions as a victory over the looser and to the victor go the spoils. They always end up with their people running the show. That is why they are referred to as the “Charlotte Mafia”. They take it as a compliment.

It was the 5th Ave office. The MD and Admin swept a large error under the rug and they did not report it to FINRA.

[quote=cubfan1404]It was the 5th Ave office. The MD and Admin swept a large error under the rug and they did not report it to FINRA.

Just like the big three, THEY will now be going to go to congress with out their savior HANK  driving to the function in their HYBRID cars staying at the Days Inn.  On the new and improved trips You and your wife will  be invited to the Days Inn with a DJ playing DISCO.  Hope you have a nice time.  Things have changed.   You just don’t know the magnitude of the 37 to 1 leverage ratio of THEY.  Do the homework…or go to the Rosemont and put on the Rose Colored Glasses.  Michael Jordan Doesn’t Play Here Any More. 

And one more thing Cubfan,

She,

It is because at 37 to one they still have 50B X 27 in debt equals 1 Trillion plus.  With help from the Goverment, cause they do not want run on the banks gave us more capital to fix short therm.   The 1T interest rate just went up.  Used to be 8.75 now 15%.   Ken just got himself another Countrywide.  In our best years we made $4B net to the firm.  Cant even pay the interest.  I once again will ask Cubfan to do the math. 

cubfan:

Your new name is dreamer...ML is gone and so is your ownership over your biz. You have no idea what is coming your way. I would buy a chew toy and keep it close by. It will help you to keep from screaming when they hold you down.

cubfan,

you obviously did not read my posts very well. you are surely an idiot.

I’m leaving ML for either SB or UBS. 

SB SUX will nickel and dime you to death. UBS is better

Curious as to why ML advisors are heading to UBS....big upfront? UBS is a tainted name.

Why not indy and double your payout? If you are worried about having a name clients are familiar with why not go to Ameriprise indy platform and get a check.  You would have a familiar name....or is it too down market for ML or SB clients?  Are you clients addicted to IPO's which have dried up.  What is so unique about SB or UBS that would have you go to either and not get double the payout by going indy?

[quote=daytradah]

Curious as to why ML advisors are heading to UBS....big upfront? UBS is a tainted name.

Why not indy and double your payout? If you are worried about having a name clients are familiar with why not go to Ameriprise indy platform and get a check.  You would have a familiar name....or is it too down market for ML or SB clients?  Are you clients addicted to IPO's which have dried up.  What is so unique about SB or UBS that would have you go to either and not get double the payout by going indy?

Well, I wonder how Thain’s request for at least a $10mm bonus this year will go over in the ML offices?

Before I post this, let me make it clear that I am well aware that my own firm (WS) has its issues, but I felt I needed to share this:

(Reuters) –
Merrill Lynch & Co <span style=": transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%; cursor: pointer; -moz–clip: -moz-initial; -moz–origin: -moz-initial; -moz–inline-policy: -moz-initial;" =“yshortcuts” id=“lw_1228716839_0”>Chief Executive <span style=“border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb0, 102, 204; cursor: pointer;” =“yshortcuts” id=“lw_1228716839_1”>John Thain
has suggested to directors that he get a 2008 bonus of as much as $10
million, but the battered company’s compensation committee is resisting
his request, the <span style=": transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%; cursor: pointer; -moz–clip: -moz-initial; -moz–origin: -moz-initial; -moz–inline-policy: -moz-initial;" =“yshortcuts” id=“lw_1228716839_2”>Wall Street Journal said, citing people familiar with the situation.

Enough said!

2 left Louisville and went to UBS. That makes 6 departures from that office alone since the BAC bailed out ML.

[quote=duster10]Before I post this, let me make it clear that I am well aware that my own firm (WS) has its issues, but I felt I needed to share this:

2 left Louisville and went to UBS. That makes 6 departures from that office alone since the BAC bailed out ML.

When I read Thain had ask for a $10 million bonus I knew he did not believe in the BAC-ML relationship. He wants his payout and then will find his next company to run. All I can say is good for him and I will do the same once I hear back from my manager on what the payout will be on Thursday.



Quick question for indepedents- One of the only good things left about ML is if a client did sue you which I’ve seen happan after the tech crash and the savings and loans crisis. ML has been very good in protecting their advisors (who knows if this will continue).



What sort of support would you get?



This is what has me leaning towards MS or UBS.

I do have ARS. But I remember during the tech wreck it seemed to me about a quarter of our brokers were sued. Clients said the investment were inappropriate i.e. they lost money.



Any help would be appreciated as I make my decision.

Ive seen guys kicked to the curb at other firms for similar issues guys had at ML. I must say ML will defend and pay if necessary and the FA will live to fight another day. Your concern is a valid one. 

I have heard so many rumors in my office recently.  Either 2/3 of the production will be leaving soon or everything will stay status quo.  I’m guessing once the comp plan comes out there will be more closed doors, sour looks and the departures will begin after the start of the year.

In my office, Jan 1 is the departure date…allot of the guys are enjoying the holidays, resting up, and getting ready to hit the door!  Don’t think this is talk- most have hard contracts in hand.  Wonder how all these job cuts will affect the support staff- anyone have any info regarding sales assistant staffing? Pretty soon I guess we will have to be doin 2 Myn to be one on one…all for the privelege of…umm…somebody remind me??

In my office, Jan 1 is the departure date…allot of the guys are enjoying the holidays, resting up, and getting ready to hit the door!  Don’t think this is talk- most have hard contracts in hand.  Wonder how all these job cuts will affect the support staff- anyone have any info regarding sales assistant staffing? Pretty soon I guess we will have to be doin 2 Myn to be one on one…all for the privelege of…umm…somebody remind me??

Phantom,

FUMLSMD....When i leave it will be on my terms and when it is most advantageous for me.  Most of the clients i want will go, that's the reality for me and all others that have taken care of their clients....you are right about one thing: there will be a mass exodus over the next few months.

Oh, and one other thing...I don't dream about leaving ML, I dream about babes

Phan2om,



Touche’, You should follow your dreams



Our office had 7 FA’s leave recently all with long, successful careers at Merrill. They are averaging about 70% of client assets leaving with them so far, the asaps keep coming in and I’m sure that percentage will rise. Their feedback has been, that once the FA’s have left Merrill, their clients spoke openly about their thoughts on Merrill and it was very negative. I would bet that most of your clients don’t like Merrill either and will tell you after you leave.

You will be pleasantly reassured how happy your clients are to follow you, and your clients don’t want to be serviced by the WalMart of financial services BAC.

I wish you the best on your plan.



This is off the subject, but John Thain should have gotten his 10M bonus!



In “SPIRIT POINTS”   If management thinks that it is such a great deal for the employees, then it should be for them as well. Thain could pick out a nice shiny iPod shuffle for christmas in the spirit point catalog.



Attitude is everything, keep up the good work Phan2om.

LOL @ Spirit Points…I kinda wonder what will happen to the smaller offices.  In our complex, we have some small “associate” offices attached to our office.  Allot of these are staffed with 5 or 10 FAs…If a few of them leave, I can’t imagine the economics of those offices staying open.

Phan2om:

If you signed the agreement with BAC you most assuredly will decide to leave when you decide, but you will not leave on your own terms. You forfeited your own terms when you signed the agreement. BAC will have something to say about their terms which are no joke.

MER advisors who left prior to signing the agreement with BAC left on their own terms and will take far more of their book because they will not be wrapped up in the tentacles that you will be if you signed the agreement.

Good luck either way

I honestly don’t agree with any of you that “ML is dead”.  But Daytradah, I can tell you that you’re wrong about “BAC’s terms”.  We’ve seen about a dozen guys leave.  While the accounts are not going with them (why would they leave ML?), the advisors are free to move and are not being terribly encumbered from doing so.  It’s business as usual via the Protocol guidelines, just like before the MER/BAC merger.  But importantly, 80% of the departed’s assets are still with ML and it’s been a few weeks now.

Cubfan,

Hey, I’m one of those lowly POAs and the first conversation I had with a client after the merger involved the client asking if I was leaving.  When I told him I had no plans to leave he then volunteered he would follow me if I did.

you guys should roll a lot of your business to fixed /fixed indexed annuities…make your 10% up front commission then roll 10% per year under the penalty free withdrawal provisions and control all your clients assets and not risk any of their hard earned money. i write about $5mil a year with American Equity and haven’t lost one client in 7 years. you might get some free trips,make a lot of money,and do your clients a world of good…remember that most of you clients have already accumulated most of their wealth…why takerisk on that money…i get so many referrals because i don’t lose my clients money. check out annuityadvantage.com might give you a different perspective

Wow go2thebeach that was some commercial.  You remind me of those guys who hang around the retirement homes singing the guarantee song.  I bet you must have sold allot of used cars in your day.  Hey do you also do home, auto, flood or earthquake insurance?  I was looking for a quote. 

I have not heard when the MER guys are supposed to actually get their retention money, has it already happened or is it later on??

BAI I was just trying to help you…i can tell you’re a critic…that’s ok I forgive you. I was merely trying to share my success’ with this forum…

[quote=MERRILLBANKER] When I read Thain had ask for a $10 million bonus I knew he did not believe in the BAC-ML relationship. He wants his payout and then will find his next company to run. All I can say is good for him and I will do the same once I hear back from my manager on what the payout will be on Thursday.



Quick question for indepedents- One of the only good things left about ML is if a client did sue you which I’ve seen happan after the tech crash and the savings and loans crisis. ML has been very good in protecting their advisors (who knows if this will continue).



What sort of support would you get?



This is what has me leaning towards MS or UBS.[/quote]





I’m surprised I have I have not gotten any input yet. Any Indy’s have an opinion on this. How is the support in protecting you? This is my main concern moving to an indepedent and I would appriciate your input.



Thanks

Merrill has been very good at protecting our advisors when things go wrong and they do with every major downturn in the market.  I do not know if this will continue with BofA but I would hope it would. 

cub…those that left, did they sign the BAC agreement and took the money? If they left before they signed…that is my point.

BAI will hold our comp call this Friday at 4 Eastern. Don’t expect much change until we go to the Merill grid.

Bai…have you heard any changes or still FA2 over 350K? T-12 is going to be 450k, t-6 x2 is going to be dicey!

No clue. Will have to listen to the all hands call Friday.

Dean is that you? Just kidding, can’t wait for Friday, great way to start the weekend.

I’m hearing FAs <$350k are going to be toast on the new comp. Word is nobody regardless of production is going to feel a great deal of love though. 

The fact is we will go to merrill’s grid at some point in 09. Everything else is speculation.