Reflecting

Perhaps all of the malcontents have moved on…

[quote=BrokerRecruit]It’s very interesting comparing the topics of discussion recently, compared with that of a year ago as it relates to this forum.  I haven’t seen any EDJ-bashing in quite some time.[/quote]

Yeah…I’m feeling kinda reminiscent.

I noticed the same thing.  I think it's because the LP offerings are coming out this month. 

Can someone explain to me exactly why EDJ gets so much grief from

everyone? I’ve worked for them for several years, and I am perfectly

happy, have a decent book (all relative to time in business), and

recommend good investments to my clients. No, I don’t just use

Amercian Funds (or just mutual funds for that matter), nor is their

technology a hinderance to my business. I have not worked for another

firm, so I have nothing to compare to. I would be interested to hear

exactly why every other firm feels so superior to EDJ. At the end of the

day, we are all in the same business, working for good firms. It all comes

down to how good we are, not the name on our business card…

EDJ- great sales training- but the rest is disfunctional by design- proof:

You learn to sell-

Maybe get a good night, maybe not-

You build a book selling mutual funds and annuities (and don't say you don't and if you do, you're either one of the few who does not, or you are kidding somebody)

You cannot solve issues such as low cost basis stock concentrated positions, affluent client issues and needs in trust/lending/investments, alternative investments, etc.

You need $500k to even do SMA type biz

Then, when you are working your IR butt off, you are asked (and softly pushed) to be a mentor or growth leader to help others without any incentive

You manage an office and the expenses without being paid for it

and your LP's are greedy-

So, you're practically independent yet are paid and treated like an employee with limited capabilities- and these are all facts.

EDJ- not a bad firm at all- just not the best firm to service many clients and by no means a recognizer of your hard work. How many EDJ offices are within 20 miles of you? 10, 20? They are you competition- like it or not.

[quote=Broker24]Can someone explain to me exactly why EDJ gets so much grief from

everyone? I’ve worked for them for several years, and I am perfectly

happy, have a decent book (all relative to time in business), and

recommend good investments to my clients. No, I don’t just use

Amercian Funds (or just mutual funds for that matter), nor is their

technology a hinderance to my business. I have not worked for another

firm, so I have nothing to compare to. I would be interested to hear

exactly why every other firm feels so superior to EDJ. At the end of the

day, we are all in the same business, working for good firms. It all comes

down to how good we are, not the name on our business card…[/quote]

Maybe you’re just stupid?

There are many within EDJ that the poor technology and limited product line have no effect on.  That said, when you compare the resources side-by-side to the competition (wirehouses, independents, etc.), they are on a lower rung.  The system works for most of their IRs and that's great, but the ones that are leaving have seen these issues impact their business in such a way that they are able to work better within their target market at a firm that will offer more resources.

Again - wasn't trying to open a very dead discussion, but it is interesting to see how the topics have migrated to other non-issues.

WealthAdvisor, sounds like you worked for EDJ?  Care to elaborate on your background…

[quote=Broker24] It all comes
down to how good we are, not the name on our business card....[/quote]

This is partially right, B24, especially looking at it from an Average Joe client perspective.  They trust you (hopefully) moreso than the firm you're with.

But your firm is more than just a name on a business card.  It's the infrastructure of your practice!  The products and platforms offered by your firm dictate the opportunities and limitations that you have when servicing clients.  Although technology isn't a make-or-break feature, good tech can vastly increase your effectiveness and efficiency and leave you more time to interact with clients (and prospective clients!).

I think that when you're happy at your firm it's the best time to start looking at others.  Take a look at some of the Wire's.  Call LPL, RJ, Commonwealth and Wachovia and take a look at their material; talk to some of their reps.  Maybe ING Fin'l Advisors has something available to their reps that you've been begging EJ to do for you.

If your practice could look like anything you wanted (and it can), what kind of practice would you like to have 5 years from now?  Can your current firm accomodate that?  Can any others do it better?

Some people love the safety of working for another firm.  Some would rather be their own boss and work as an Independent Contractor (sp?).  EJ might be the perfect firm for you and your practice.  Or not.

[quote=FreedomLvr]

[quote=Broker24] It all comes
down to how good we are, not the name on our business card....[/quote] I think that when you're happy at your firm it's the best time to start looking at others.  Take a look at some of the Wire's.  Call LPL, RJ, Commonwealth and Wachovia and take a look at their material; talk to some of their reps.  Maybe ING Fin'l Advisors has something available to their reps that you've been begging EJ to do for you.

If your practice could look like anything you wanted (and it can), what kind of practice would you like to have 5 years from now?  Can your current firm accomodate that?  Can any others do it better?

Some people love the safety of working for another firm.  Some would rather be their own boss and work as an Independent Contractor (sp?).  EJ might be the perfect firm for you and your practice.  Or not.

[/quote]

Great point.  I think that when someone is truly fed up with their BD, that is a time when their judgement is a little blurred and can, oftentimes, be skewed by how eager they are to get out.  Many times, advisors are very unlikely to look at different perspectives as clearly or as objectively as they may if they were not clouded by frustration.

Below are several of the reasons why I left Jones in 2003 and the comments are dated from then, so please keep that in mind.  I did send in signed SUGBOX letters addressing several of these issues during the 5 years I was there in an effort to fix things from inside...none were addressed.

Reasons I left Jones:

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  Some of these issues may have been address but most of them haven't.  I also have a letter I sent to Bachmann that I might post...let the sparks fly.

Great post ewec86.  Might I also add that the IRs have to pay for 1/2 their postage even for mailing things out like confirms.  

Also, no financial planning software to my knowledge.  How insane. 

No outside research to speak of.

I'm sitting on a 76% fee based business now five years after leaving.  Can you imagine being back there and having to worry every single month where your revenue is going to come from?  What a nightmare.   

Very well put UWEC86.   Several of the reasons you listed did bother me while at Jones. But I was tired of the long commute to my office and my business was being centered around where I lived, not where I worked. I am a few weeks into the transition and I am loving it. (Moved to RJ)

My reason for stating the above is I am not pissed at Jones. The most noticable gripe is the previously stated view of, "Holy'er than thou.."  Geez it's true.... they preached it and the unwritten rule number 6..........Comon jonsee's what are the 5 steps to being a successful IR?....Well, the 6th rule here it is   #6  Recruit him, Recruit her, and Recruit them.    Leave recruiting to the recruiters or that department I help paid for in St Louis.

My 4 years at Jones were profitable for both just not enought for LP. I said 4 years ago if  your not a LP you really dont have a reason to stay with Jones. I did 240 this last trailing 12 and dont want the extra work to get above that level. At RJ I will be making more than most in my small community and will be home alot more often.

Bamzor,

Welcome to the light!  I was pissed at EJ for placing more value on HQ than the guys in the field...and putting BOA's ahead of the broker.  HQ thinks they are doing you a favor, they own the book of hard work you built and then make you believe LP is so awesome.  I pay myself my own LP...Indy is the way to go baby.

btw...The ball I got rollin' was the WSJ art. that brought now Hill and cost Jones 202 mil.  GP's just suck the IR's dry...you'll discover more the longer you are away....but I'm not bitter.

I left two years ago next month.  My best year at Jones I grossed around $425.  I did that for three years in a row.  This year I expect to gross $600K.  In addition, most of my revenue is reoccuring.  I can offer so much more and have much more freedom.

[quote=indyboy]I left two years ago next month.  My best year at Jones I grossed around $425.  I did that for three years in a row.  This year I expect to gross $600K.  In addition, most of my revenue is reoccuring.  I can offer so much more and have much more freedom. [/quote]

You had your best year three years in a row?  Kewl.

[quote=uwec86]

[/quote]

Was it Gutenburg?

Soon2B Gone...good one but the printer was more like what you see on the Flintstones.

For those of you who have left Jones and are happy other places - congrats.  There's not a firm out there that can be everything to everyone. 

u86's reasons for leaving Jones I'd say are well thought out, but very dated, and imho incorrect.  Let me expound:

Reasons I left Jones:

<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><?:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /> 

We do pay for half of the postage.  How much do you pay for if  you are indy?  We have financial planning software.  Admittedly I've not seen a lot of software from other firms, but I'd put ours up against anyone else's.   

I also have access to S&P & Morningstar for stock research.  I can get to others if I want to pay for them.  I just don't. 

There are two sides to every good debate.  Like I said, if  you left Jones and are happy, congrats. 

 Do I WANT TO WORK FOR A FIRM THAT HAS A CONFLICT OF INTREST WHEN A CLIENT BUYS A MFD OR FOR ONE THAT DOES NOT? I HOPE YOU ARE DISCLOSING TO ALL YOUR MFD BUYERS THAT YOU{gps} MAKE MORE MONEY WHEN THEY BUY ANY OF THE LUCKY EIGHT.

Spiff,

Good arguments.  I think the point that they were going for is that, while they do have to cover some expenses at Jones, they only get paid out at 38% (or so).  As an independent, they will see payouts from 80-90%, sometimes more. 

Spiff, a pretty balanced response...just a couple of additions from Indy-land...

9. I've seen the Jones system and have worked with several others...yeah, this is definitely not Jones' brightest area...I've yet to run across a platform that wouldn't match up.  I'd think the GP's would be happy to junk the satellite and upgrade to a cheaper and more efficient land-based system, but for some unknown reason, they keep hanging on to a dinosaur...

13.  That carrot has been hanging for a looooooooong time.

14.  I can't answer for the others, but absolutely my wife can get a buyout for my book if I leave this world before I get to sell it. 100-150% of trailing 12 is a nice little bonus in this regard.

18.  Yes, as an indy I pay 100% of my health insurance, BUT I get a substantial "above the line" tax break for self-employed health insurance premiums.

20.  I did a client approciation event this summer and could have easily had wholesalers foot the bill.  As it was, not being greedy, I asked for and received 2/3rds of the total cost of the event.

21. Funny...now I know what to do with my old copies of Registered Rep...

22.  I was scratching my head trying to figure out what a "nosey" printer was...thanks for clearing that up...

26.  Good point...hopefully these two concerns came at different times in his life...

Overall, points well taken.  It just goes to show that some are better fits for Jones than others...

A death benefit can be huge for an advisor's family.  Obviously, life insurance is there for a reason, but when someone has invested their career in building a practice, simply walking away is absolutely silly, especially when there are many places that employ this strategy, both for independents and employees.  God forbid something terrible happen to where an advisor dies or cannot work due to illness, injury, etc.  Why just hand this over to someone when you and/or your family can benefit from the sale of the practice?

[quote=BrokerRecruit]

Spiff,

Good arguments.  I think the point that they were going for is that, while they do have to cover some expenses at Jones, they only get paid out at 38% (or so).  As an independent, they will see payouts from 80-90%, sometimes more. 

[/quote]

That will handle about 90% of Spiff's arguments...I don't mind paying my office expenses of I'm getting a 90% payout...at 38%...I'm pi$$ed.

Spiff,

I guess I should have fleshed out some of my bullet points because you're not getting it...(see above)...I was not attempting to write a book.  I was just giving reasons why I left and what makes owning your business a better deal.  EJ is a great place to start but after 3 or 4 years it's time to graduate to Indy...EJ is the perfect training ground for that. 

If you noticed, I made a point to give the year of my departure so I can fully understand Jones addressing some of my issues.  There is still a corp. culture that is at the heart of the problem.  HQ always gave the IR the impression that they were doing us a favor.  This was the impression other got too...but I guess we are all malcontents.  HQ would say one thing but did another.  When I start in 1998, Jones was much more like a family and then they tried to grow too fast and it they lost their way.  I gave them the outline to fix the issues but I couldn't get anyone to listen...I sent stuff directly to JB but got no response.  You should at least acknowledge someone who is putting it on the line to be an advocate for change from the inside.

EJ made some very bad decisions and failed to address some real issues for the vets and that is why the firm has not grown in 3 or 4 years.  GP's are too far removed from the field to give a damn about their Customer...the IR.  EJ just doesn't understand that they just print statements and the broker is the real bread winner.

As far as the trips things...I was complaining about Jones pay for my date, just the fact that I wasn't allowed to bring one (no I was not married at the time).  Gays could bring a "friend" but not us straight folks...is that messed up or what?  Just another example of a corp. policy made to legislate morality doing the opp.

B-shares...I was only making the point that below breakpoints, you could make the argument that they are better for the client so why penalize the broker for that.  C-shares can also be used as a fee based alternative but Jones lowed the payout to 20% or 30% (can't remember which).  Spiff...did you know that EJ is skimming .75 to 1 % off the top of your b-share annuity tickets?  I didn't mind paying EJ 60% but to have them steal from me kind of ticket me off.  I know you're going to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about but those of us in the real world know it's true.

Why should I buy additional life insurance when my wife can either take over or sell my business?  Who would pay for that insurance?  My wife can sell my business or pass it on without spending a dime...can you say that.  Instead...some GP's kid, who did earn a thing, will box up your personal crap (he will most likely keep the TP and the pens) and tell your spouse to haul ass.  Is that what you Jones people call "owning" your business?

My list wasn't perfect and I'm sorry I didn't take the time to flesh it out in a way to better communicate my issues...I just assumed you would understand the dif. between a 39% payout and a 90% payout and get the point....I guess not.

Did you see the post were I mentioned I was "deep throat" in the WSJ story that cost Hill his job?  I are telling all your MFD clients about revenue sharing...I didn't think so.

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]

No Fire and Theft insurance - What did  you keep in your office that was really worth insuring?  Other than the pics of my kids I don't keep things here of any real value.  Maybe the fridge or a conference table.  I'll bet your landlord had insurance.

Too much empowerment for office assistant (BOA)…they are literally there to keep an eye on you…your own employee…what a joke.  The IR generates all the revenue and the BOA is in charge. -
Why was your BOA in charge of you.  Did you hire your wife?  My BOA is there to support me.  Nothing else.  The only reason the BOA might have run the office is if you let her.  

For years discouraged brokers from getting a CFP - Maybe didn't encourage is the right phrasing.  Now depending on what you want your biz to be, CFP is a big plus at Jones. 

[/quote]

No landlord has fire insurance for their tenants...you would know that if you had "owned" your business.  Business interruption insurance and liability is also part of the deal.  Do you think that if a client slips on your office floor that they can't sue you because Jones pays the rent?  I suggest that you get some liability insurance tomorrow.  We had two hurricanes hit my office in 3 weeks...it can happen...those satellites don't work too well without power nor are your clients interested in doing any biz before and after a hurricane.  There is a lot more at stake than you are thinking about.  Give me some credit for mentioning issues for a reason.  Those of us who have left have more real world experience than the closed world of Jones.  Make it a point to have lunch with brokers outside EJ...you might see things a little dif.

My BOA never told me what to do but Jones uses THEIR employee to keep and eye on you...ask around...it's happening to other brokers in your region.  In my old region, the BOA's had meetings to bitch about the broker and to see who was getting what (extra time off HQ didn't know about, etc.).  Does your BOA straighten the office...if so...you're in big trouble Mister!  I'm sure your BOA is far too busy to clean the office...but you can hire an outside company to come in and clean JONES' office at your expense (remember EJ is getting 61%)...and don't forget to buy the trash bags.  I don't mind that since I'm getting 90%.  See what happens if your BOA claims your sexually harassed her or your client did (no this did not happen to me).  HQ is so scared that the BOA's word is taken over the broker 90% of the time.  I know one guy that was read the riot act for firing his BOA for drinking on the job...and she was caught more than once.  If you look...you will find many many stories to back up my assertion.  Oh yeah...does Jones supply a shredder?   I didn't think so.

When I was at Jones you could not put "CFP" or any other designation accept AAMS on your business card.  Jones did not want the liability...now they seem to have changed their mind which is just fine.

[quote=uwec86][quote=Spaceman Spiff]

No Fire and Theft insurance - What did  you keep in your office that was really worth insuring?  Other than the pics of my kids I don't keep things here of any real value.  Maybe the fridge or a conference table.  I'll bet your landlord had insurance.

Too much empowerment for office assistant (BOA)…they are literally there to keep an eye on you…your own employee…what a joke.  The IR generates all the revenue and the BOA is in charge. -
Why was your BOA in charge of you.  Did you hire your wife?  My BOA is there to support me.  Nothing else.  The only reason the BOA might have run the office is if you let her.  

For years discouraged brokers from getting a CFP - Maybe didn't encourage is the right phrasing.  Now depending on what you want your biz to be, CFP is a big plus at Jones. 

[/quote]

No landlord has fire insurance for their tenants...you would know that if you had "owned" your business.  Business interruption insurance and liability is also part of the deal.  Do you think that if a client slips on your office floor that they can't sue you because Jones pays the rent?  I suggest that you get some liability insurance tomorrow.  We had two hurricanes hit my office in 3 weeks...it can happen...those satellites don't work too well without power nor are your clients interested in doing any biz before and after a hurricane.  There is a lot more at stake than you are thinking about.  Give me some credit for mentioning issues for a reason.  Those of us who have left have more real world experience than the closed world of Jones.  Make it a point to have lunch with brokers outside EJ...you might see things a little dif.

My BOA never told me what to do but Jones uses THEIR employee to keep and eye on you...ask around...it's happening to other brokers in your region.  In my old region, the BOA's had meetings to bitch about the broker and to see who was getting what (extra time off HQ didn't know about, etc.).  Does your BOA straighten the office...if so...you're in big trouble Mister!  I'm sure your BOA is far too busy to clean the office...but you can hire an outside company to come in and clean JONES' office at your expense (remember EJ is getting 61%)...and don't forget to buy the trash bags.  I don't mind that since I'm getting 90%.  See what happens if your BOA claims your sexually harassed her or your client did (no this did not happen to me).  HQ is so scared that the BOA's word is taken over the broker 90% of the time.  I know one guy that was read the riot act for firing his BOA for drinking on the job...and she was caught more than once.  If you look...you will find many many stories to back up my assertion.  Oh yeah...does Jones supply a shredder?   I didn't think so.

When I was at Jones you could not put "CFP" or any other designation accept AAMS on your business card.  Jones did not want the liability...now they seem to have changed their mind which is just fine.

[/quote]

It is interesting an interesting argument that EDJ hires and trains the BOAs.  There are some that really don't care what goes on within the office. 

There have been many instances in the past (when I recruited FAs largely and, more specifically EDJ IRs) when I called an office and was grilled by the BOA (which I would admit is their job), only to be told that the IR was not interested in new opportunities (I was very up front with them), only to speak with that IR directly and find out that they are interested in speaking with other companies about new opportunities.

The BOA is not a partner for the IR, but someone who manages the office operationally.  They are, I would assume, ordered to protect the company in every way when it regards the potential departure of one of their IRs. 

When you compare this to an assistant or Ops Manager with an indy or someone who is truly a partner with their advisor (at a wirehouse, perhaps), it is a completely different story - they don't spy, they don't keep the advisor from looking at outside opportunities because it will usually mean that they are along for the ride, too, and will have a vested interest in the overall success of that practice.

Another BOA (that's an assistant to the rest of us) story...

My buddy's kid had some very serious medical problem and he was out of the office a great deal.  The BOA kept track of his time and turned him in...what a joke.  She did all kinds of other wacky stuff and finally got fired but not until the broker threatened to quit.  She got something like 3 or 6 months pay and training for a new career. 

Before you start assuming a bunch of stuff on the side of the BOA...I was there and she was wrong on so many levels but EJ protected her first.  It happens all the time.

I love the good natured debate on this forum.  Gets my adrenaline pumping. 

U86, I'm sure you and I could go on and on about the differences between Jones and your current B/D.  It sounds like you were ready to make a change.  BTW, I think the BOAs you are referring to are the exceptions to the rule.  The majority of them are incredible.  They run the office incredibly well.  Mine doesn't have any idea how many hours I really work, nor does she care.  She is a pretty good gatekeeper.  Most recruiters don't get through.  Sorry, BrokerRecruit.  If I ever decide to look at other opportunities, I'll let her know to get info so I can call them back.  Right now, we don't waste the time.  I'm sure when BOAs get together there is a lot of "my broker..." talk.  We do the same things as brokers, we just start it with "I've got this client..." 

Indy, there are a couple of people on this forum that I like hearing from.  You are one of them.  I'd love to have lunch with a guy like you sometime and have a good discussion about the differences in our two worlds.  If you have any Jones friends ask them to show you our new financial assessment tools.  Jones is slowly rolling out the cool stuff, but we already have enough tools to overwhelm most of our clients pretty quickly.  And the old satellite system is soon to be history.  They're in the process of putting us all on land lines.  I think I'm slated for Febuary of 2010.  Actually it should happen in the next 6 months. 

I've enjoyed this debate and I look forward to the next one I'm sure is just around the bend. 

Jones has been getting rid of the old satellite system for about 5 years now from what I hear.

They're waiting for the satellite's orbit to decay.  In another 600 years it'll hit earth and then all the other firms better look out!

Spiff,

I'd very careful about all of a sudden letting your BOA know you want to hear from other firms...more than one guy has been turned in by his BOA.  I'd suggest you listen to them now as a regular course of business and file the info. away for the time when you're ready to leave...and you will be some day.  I've got a spreadsheet that will help you do some math on the dif. in payout and expenses if you want it...PM me.

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]She is a pretty good gatekeeper.  Most recruiters don't get through.  Sorry, BrokerRecruit.  If I ever decide to look at other opportunities, I'll let her know to get info so I can call them back.  Right now, we don't waste the time.  [/quote]

Believe me - no hard feelings.

I guess you all have heard about the Jones new fee based platform.  A proposal should be in by 12/31/06.  You guys are running out of bad topics to discuss

I would also agree with uwec - be cautious as to what you tell your BOA or other IRs.  They can be your best buddy until you drop that bomb that you want to leave.  All of a sudden, that IR that was your friend, is now an opportunistic SOB that would love to rat you out and solicit your clients. 

I opened my EDJ office not too long ago, and we opened with the land lines (satellite just for training, broadcasts, etc.).  You would be surprised how far the firm has come just in the past year.  Jim Weddle actually makes things happen.  Nice to see.

Sounds like a firm that I would want to be with - one that is the last in the game with things that are really important to my business ie. Technology, Fee based options, etc...

Always making it easier for the rep to compete, I guess.

[quote=success]I guess you all have heard about the Jones new fee based platform.  A proposal should be in by 12/31/06.  You guys are running out of bad topics to discuss[/quote]

Wow…so by the end of 2006 they are going to give you a PROPOSAL for a hypothetical NEW fee-based platform.  That’s awesome!

Meanwhile, I’ve been doing fee-based business since 2000…

You would think the entire investment community revolves around fee based business…I, along with several thousand other brokers are doing quite well on our platform.

[quote=Indyone]

22.  I was scratching my head trying to figure out what a "nosey" printer was...thanks for clearing that up...

[/quote]

Cut a brother a little slack...Those damn printers were always up in my bitness.

[quote=success]I guess you all have heard about the Jones new fee based platform.  A proposal should be in by 12/31/06.  You guys are running out of bad topics to discuss[/quote]

LOL...As long as there's an Edward D. Jones & Co. in business, there'll never be a shortage of bad topics to be discussed ad nauseum.

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]Indy, there are a couple of people on this forum that I like hearing from.  You are one of them.  I’d love to have lunch with a guy like you sometime and have a good discussion about the differences in our two worlds.  If you have any Jones friends ask them to show you our new financial assessment tools.  Jones is slowly rolling out the cool stuff, but we already have enough tools to overwhelm most of our clients pretty quickly.  And the old satellite system is soon to be history.  They’re in the process of putting us all on land lines.  I think I’m slated for Febuary of 2010.  Actually it should happen in the next 6 months. 

I've enjoyed this debate and I look forward to the next one I'm sure is just around the bend.[/quote]

Aw shucks...it's stuff like this that has caused me to post 1276 (and counting) times on this forum.  Those who've taken my sparring too seriously in the past have been quick to point out my 2-3 posts daily as evidence that I'm a slacker/small producer/loser, etc., but honestly, I view this forum as a resource where I can learn by reading posts from the likes of Bond Guy, Babs, and yes, even Mikebutler and S2BG (when they're not busy sparring...)...oh and yes, you too, Joe "where's the love?" Broker.  I can be amused by the jokes and sparring or skip over them in the search for substance, and hopefully, I can contribute something useful back to the forum on occasion.  It's probably a similar feeling of self-worth that EJ reps feel when mentoring a new broker and then seeing them succeed.

I do enjoy talking shop with other reps on occasion and have had different reps stop by to see the setup and learn more about how I do business, since I've left the fold, and if the schedule allows, I enjoy the interaction (although I don't tend to give up much in the way of trade secrets to local competitors....my book isn't that big yet).

Who knows, Spiff...perhaps some day our paths will cross and we'll get to break bread together while debating the merits of our respective B/Ds (unless you've seen the light and joined LPL by then ).  Until then, I'll have to settle for chewing the fat with the local Jonesies and carrying on our debate online...cheers to you...

Well put, Indy.  Take the good and leave the rest.

i do pretty well w/o fee based.  some clients like to pay as you go.  We ALL know fee based is to help get rid of the up/downs in monthly commissiopns.  Granted, some clients prefer fee based, but the vast majority have no clue what they are doing and rely soley on our advice. 

[quote=success]i do pretty well w/o fee based.  some clients like to pay as you go.  We ALL know fee based is to help get rid of the up/downs in monthly commissiopns.  Granted, some clients prefer fee based, but the vast majority have no clue what they are doing and rely soley on our advice.  [/quote]

What specialized training do you have to offer advice?

A series 65.

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

[quote=success]i do pretty well w/o fee based.  some clients like to pay as you go.  We ALL know fee based is to help get rid of the up/downs in monthly commissiopns.  Granted, some clients prefer fee based, but the vast majority have no clue what they are doing and rely soley on our advice.  [/quote]

What specialized training do you have to offer advice?

[/quote]

The Hartford wholesaler at the summer regionals gave an inspirational talk. 

Why do you ask?

series 66 and CFP

I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

uwec86:

I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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With the Dow at 12,000 more and more of you are going to be talking to clients who are wanting to liquidate their holdings, to take their profits before the profits evaporate.

If you advise them to hold on for the long run and there is a major correction how will you maintain them as clients?

On the other hand, if you agree and suggest that they follow their instinct and the market continues to rise how will you maintain them as clients?

What specialized training do you have that makes you qualified to advise a sixty year old man and wife who are sitting on $1 million and need to make it last for the rest of their lives?

Risk tolerance doesn’t change just because the market hits a high. Either

they belong in the market or they don’t.

It’s all about income…“You either need income now, later or want to pass it on to your heirs.”

[quote=uwec86]It's all about income..."You either need income now, later or want to pass it on to your heirs."[/quote]

Preservation of assets is not a factor in your world?

Is the amount of income a portfolio generates a factor of the size of the portfolio?

GWB



It will be the biggest thing ever.

[quote=Reggin] Risk tolerance doesn’t change just because the market hits a high. Either

they belong in the market or they don’t.[/quote]



Risk tolerance doesn’t change but the percentages in a portfolio do quite frequently. If you aren’t reallocating some of your gains back to income or cash, you are doing your clients a disservice. My 5 cents.

[quote=doberman]

uwec86:

I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

With the Dow at 12,000 more and more of you are going to be talking to clients who are wanting to liquidate their holdings, to take their profits before the profits evaporate.

If you advise them to hold on for the long run and there is a major correction how will you maintain them as clients?

On the other hand, if you agree and suggest that they follow their instinct and the market continues to rise how will you maintain them as clients?

What specialized training do you have that makes you qualified to advise a sixty year old man and wife who are sitting on $1 million and need to make it last for the rest of their lives?

[/quote]

This is something I have been worrying about while the news media and others are breaking out the party hats for the Dow hitting new highs.   I have no crystal ball for the future, but do feel in "my gut" that we are in for a pull back in the near future and especially so if the Democrats gain control of the House and Senate at the same time.

I think that we need to sit down with each client and evaluate several factors as to whether it is advisable to maintain market positions that we have now or take profits and pull back to a more defensive position.

We need to discuss the implications of being strictly in cash (inflation, missed opportunities if there is no downward trend in the market after all), how to protect the portfolio if they decide they want to stay in the market, how long will it take to recover if there were a Bear market and can they stand it, how long to stay on the side lines and if/when do they think they might want to ease back into the market, re-define what their goals are and what would be the effect to them of a market decline or if they decided to go to cash.  

Document, document document that we have had these discussions.  I have had clients recently who wanted to get more aggressive; a very bad sign in my book, even more worrisome than those who want to pull to cash.   I have made them sign documents that I have advised against these aggressive moves.  If they make money...well good.... they won't hold it against me because they know I am a cautious advisor. However, if they lose, at least I have some documentation that I told them not to.

How will we maintain them as clients?  Being proactive, listening to what they want and presenting all sides of the problem, making them a part of the process and guiding, not forcing, them into a decision.

I guess we will lose a few who will blame us for their own decisions. 

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

[quote=uwec86]It's all about income..."You either need income now, later or want to pass it on to your heirs."[/quote]

Preservation of assets is not a factor in your world?

Is the amount of income a portfolio generates a factor of the size of the portfolio?

[/quote]

Which means income later, unless the client can live off off money market income.  It's just a concept...the details of the clients risk tol., income, etc. dictate what you do with the assets and of course, market conditions.

as a true indy would say, buy a traditional variable annuity and put a lifetime income rider on it.  make sure you tell the client you are payhed 6% gross up front.

Document, document document that we have had these discussions.  I have had clients recently who wanted to get more aggressive; a very bad sign in my book, even more worrisome than those who want to pull to cash.   I have made them sign documents that I have advised against these aggressive moves.  If they make money...well good.... they won't hold it against me because they know I am a cautious advisor. However, if they lose, at least I have some documentation that I told them not to.

How will we maintain them as clients?  Being proactive, listening to what they want and presenting all sides of the problem, making them a part of the process and guiding, not forcing, them into a decision.

I guess we will lose a few who will blame us for their own decisions. 

[/quote]

Babs,

Would you recommend documenting also for the opposite scenario?  Say a client is 100% cash but these assets are not going to be utilized for over 10 years.   Can it come back to bite us if we didn't document we recommened a more appropriate diverse portfilio and they lost out on opportunity cost?

Just curious.

scrim

[quote=scrim67]

Document, document document that we have had these discussions.  I have had clients recently who wanted to get more aggressive; a very bad sign in my book, even more worrisome than those who want to pull to cash.   I have made them sign documents that I have advised against these aggressive moves.  If they make money...well good.... they won't hold it against me because they know I am a cautious advisor. However, if they lose, at least I have some documentation that I told them not to.

How will we maintain them as clients?  Being proactive, listening to what they want and presenting all sides of the problem, making them a part of the process and guiding, not forcing, them into a decision.

I guess we will lose a few who will blame us for their own decisions. 

[/quote]

Babs,

Would you recommend documenting also for the opposite scenario?  Say a client is 100% cash but these assets are not going to be utilized for over 10 years.   Can it come back to bite us if we didn't document we recommened a more appropriate diverse portfilio and they lost out on opportunity cost?

Just curious.

scrim

[/quote]

Absolutely!!  Every recommendation you make, and the clients acceptance or declination of that recommendation should be documented.  I have had clients sign forms that I recommended that they went against my advice in either direction, especially when I think it might come back to bite me in the end.  Most documentation is in the form of notes of meetings in the client files.  Basically the form states: I recommended so and so and such and such.  The client has decided to do do and so and such and such on this date.  I always send a confirmation letter, whether or not we had a decision form signed, stating: pursuant to our meeting/conversation of this date I have taken these actions and file it all in their file.

I don't make it a confrontational issue. "Mr Client I am just making sure our records are complete and up to date and so that in our next meeting we both will be better able to remember better what we have decided and discussed today."    I think the clients appreciate the details being attended to when it comes to their money.  They may suspect that it is also CYA for me too.

I just checked with my compliance back office and they said just note it in the file.  There was nothing I could get signed.

scrim