MWD layoff started
Two in the Valencia, California office. In San Diego one guy with 20 years and 35 Million but only 200,00K trailing twelve is gonna be out the door. Assets are mostly fee based.
Managers have the list already, have been told that they are not to say anything until they are told to. The guy in Valencia just jumped the gun.
HR will not divulge the formula they used to arrive at the names and the Managers are not being allowed to lobby for exemptions.
Bruce Alonzo is gone. One of the few at the top who was respected and was a former FA int he trenches.
Rumor is that Rick Sanchez will be out by month end. Good riddance according to most of the people I know.
The regionals are gonna LOVE this.
i was told thursday the ax comes down
Are they expected to give out the metrics, or will they simply drop the bomb?
And what is the best way to find out who these FAs are? Any thoughts?
don’t know
From what I hear even the Branch Managers do not know the metrics and HR won't say anything for fear that they will go to the press.
They are expected to simply dismiss the FA's.
There simply is no way to know who is on the list short of asking your manager directly but then and again if they told you they would have to tell everyone else.
It is nice to be INDY! *uck Wirehouses!
Managers will be on a 10AM Eastern conference call. They don't have names yet, but they have scripts to talk with those let go and the remaining staff.
Many of these folks will be doing just fine as Indys or working at another firm in no time.
Interesting.
I heard from a manager buddy of mine that they did indeed have the lists because he knew who he had to let go of and HIS buddy in an office in the San Diego area also knew who he had to let go of but........... I also know of a couple of other managers as well as an executive director that denied having such a list a list.
Who knows, they also denied even having plans of laying people off a while back.
I trust my buddy who is one of my two best friends in the world more than any of the corporate figures that play games.
Lajazz947
What happened to Bruce Alonzo?
Bruce is retiring at the end of the year
The times are a changing. This firm hopefully no longer follows the good old boy system. Promoting people who only play a good golf game and a fake laugh. Out of 400 branch managers 300 have been managing for 1yr or less. The only time i see my managing director is when he fires someone. I heard he has his resume out. As all should.
Is there a lot of underlying dissatisfaction at MWD, betterdays? I know only one MWD broker, and haven’t seen her for some time. Maybe this layoff is a good thing?
[quote=BrokerRecruit]
Are they expected to give out the metrics, or will they simply drop the bomb?
And what is the best way to find out who these FAs are? Any thoughts?
[/quote]Hahahaha. No, BrokerRecruit, there is no way to find out who those FAs are. Personnel information is confidential. As it should be.
However, I do like your style. You see an opportunity, and you look for a way to tap it.
Those poor MS folks getting the axe can probably use a professional recruiter like you who knows the business. If they were wise, they would have contacted outside recruiters like you or other firms BEFORE the axe fell. Seriously, if you're a LOS 8+ and only doing $250k (or less), you had to know that your days were numbered. Besides, it's going to be a lot easier to transfer your book when you have time to prepare. Live and learn.
However, that's not to say that those folks getting fired from MS aren't of value to a company. In fact, even at $200k, a rep can still be a profitable producer for a company.
Smaller regionals will take those displaced Morgan Stanely folks.
200k @ 40% payout leaves $120,000 for the firm to cover office space and other overhead. Is there some profit left over? Absolutely.
This is also a good example of the kind of loyalty that companies show their producers. None! Producers should be loyal to their firms no more than the firms are loyal to them--which is means no loyalty at all.
[quote=Starka]Is there a lot of underlying dissatisfaction at MWD,
betterdays? I know only one MWD broker, and haven’t seen her for
some time. Maybe this layoff is a good thing?[/quote]
Every cloud has a silver lining. Every time a door closes, another one opens up.
Anyone else have some good cliches that we can use here?
I can’t imagine that the bigger producers are going to give any thought
to this mass firing at all. Afterall, they are untouchable.
[quote=Lajazz947]
From what I hear even the Branch Managers do not
know the metrics and HR won’t say anything for fear that they will go
to the press.
They are expected to simply dismiss the FA's.
There simply is no way to know who is on the list short of asking
your manager directly but then and again if they told you they would
have to tell everyone else.
[/quote]
Companies typically don't like giving advance warnings of
firings. That gives reps opportunities to copy paperwork, client
lists, urinate in the branch manager's coffee, etc.
The sadistic tendencies of management preclude niceties such as
humane treatment. "You know how we used to play golf over the
past 10 years, Bob, and became good friends? Well, it's all over
because you are fired! Security will escort you out like the dog
you are."
Will it stop at 1000?
Will more lower producers be let go?
Will Morgan Stanley increase recruiting deals to find producers to fill all those empty offices?
Will Monica ever find out who the father of her child is?
Hopefully along with Alonso and Sanchez, Michael Burke is shown the exit door also.
It seems to me that there are two distinct possibilities:
-MWD is trying to strengthen their position compared to ML, SSB and the rest of the wires
-MWD is boosting their average production and assets per FA to dress up the firm to sell or spin-off.
Any thoughts?
[quote=BrokerRecruit]
It seems to me that there are two distinct possibilities:
-MWD is trying to strengthen their position compared to ML, SSB and the rest of the wires
-MWD is boosting their average production and assets per FA to dress up the firm to sell or spin-off.
Any thoughts?
[/quote]
Yes on your first point, no on your second.
[quote=F-DPatrick]Hopefully along with Alonso and Sanchez, Michael Burke is shown the exit door also. [/quote]
I knew Burke when he was a regional guy, seemed OK to me. What's your beef with him?
Yeah, I also thought that Burke was OK.
Unless he drank the Koolaid and changed when he got to a senior management position he was a "Real" person whom you could talk to and get a straight answer.
Now Rick Sanchez on the other hand is...............oh, don't get me started.
For those of you at MSDW...do you feel that your colleagues that will feel the effects of this will be let go "nicely" and with some dignity, or are all of the FAs in the office going to go after their accounts aggressively right away?
Are there any chances they will be able to move any of their business to another firm?
Also, can anyone confirm that this is actually the formula that HR is using for the cuts:
Brokers with at least 8 yrs experience who produce under $225,000 in annual fees and commissions will be let go. Those with four to eight years of experience who produced under $150,000 in the past 12-months will be let go.
Those with two to four years' experience will be evaluated relative to their peers, and brokers over age 60 with at least eight years of experience will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.
Know MBurke. Have no opinion on him.
I couldn't agree more. I am with a Regional firm and I have never been happier. I was with Mother Merrill and MWD for 20 years and I thought that there was no life outside of the majors.
I got news for you all, there is life at the Regionals and at the Indy's. Take Jerry's advice and call him to explore your options.
"For those of you at MSDW...do you feel that your colleagues that will feel the effects of this will be let go "nicely" and with some dignity, or are all of the FAs in the office going to go after their accounts aggressively right away?"
Cmon now, thats a silly question. This business is cutthroat. Once those reps leave, before they even get to their car to open the trunk and throw their box in, their friends upstairs will be slamming the phones to those clients... I have seen it before... Once, a broker was leaving, walked by an office on his way to the door, and an FA was ALREADY calling the guys best client... It is what it is...
out today!!! 9yrs.
In a team with 2 others my share 200k
rough day.....
Any of you Morgan guys ever deal with Mike Turpin? He used to hi
five his little cronies when he fired people…apparently that is
what gets you promoted at MSDW…
What about Dan Cedero, Bruce loved him.....
Eventually, any Morgan reps under $500K will be shown the door. They
don’t call him Mack the Knife for nothing.
Morgan Scumley- I started right after 9/11. Came from a regional firm
in NY that clients thought was “conservative” but was really a “boiler
room”. I stayed with MS during the next four years until today.
Immediately after I started- they got bagged in Massachussets for the
"sales contest". Then it was one more crooked, embarassing deed after
another. Reaching a crescendo with the push to oust Phil. I defended
the hell out of the firm to my clients as each piece of news came out.
My clients stayed because of me! The relationship and their results
with me. I moved out of state nine months ago, and between getting my
house ready to sell, and moving and trying to re-establish new business
in my new locale, my trailing 12 suffered. So, after all of this
,Morgan put me on their list. Screw them- I had my letter of
resignation ready before I could get knifed (Mac). I’m starting at a
regional bank in a branch with 500 million on deposit. I should do well
there. People I speak to are shocked that a company of Morgan’s caliper
didn’t offer any severance… But Purcell and Crawford walked with 150
Million!!! To HELL with Morgan!! Good Riddance!!!
[quote=skeedaddy]Eventually, any Morgan reps under $500K will be shown the door. They
don't call him Mack the Knife for nothing.[/quote]
Given their average production that would mean 50% of the company is leaving.
at a certain tenure, the minimum should be 500k. they can start out easy with 10 LOS 500k is min.
I am new to the business, but with the payout % that I have seen, I wonder why anyone would still be in this business after 8 years and only 250k in production?
Because it's really all about expectations. Even at 30% $250,000 still gives you $75,000 which is allot more than the average worker in the US makes. There are LOTS of FA's that see that income level as perfectly good, especially in certain parts of the country. Here in LA you can't even find a decent condo let alone have a high standard of living on that amount of income.
Problem is that we are surrounded by high income earners via the top producers and we think ( at least I do ) that making anything less than $400,000 to $500,000 per year and amassing a $ 2 million 401K is unnacceptable.
There is a place for all income levels though.
This business is just too hard to settle for 75k per year, especially after 8 years experience. I don't blame MDW for the cuts. If I were Mac I would do the same thing. People who have 8 years experience an only 250k in production are certainly not working like they should be
Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967?
"Recently (4/2005), the Supreme Court ruled that older workers may sue their employers under the Age Discrimination in Employment Act for the employer's use of a practice or policy that, although non-discriminatory on its face, has a disproportionately negative impact on older employees as a group."
My office let go nine 40+. Last month they hired six in their 20's. Does something smell bad?
Maybe MWD is going to write another big check to settle this matter. MWD may think they were correct in the policy of using LOS, but the court still allows a case to be filed. I'm sure we'll be seeing some sort of action soon.
Does the supreme court tell a sales organization they can’t fire a guy who is over 40 but can’t sell? This is a sales job. If you can’t sell, you can’t stay.
The court stated that "workers may sue ".
Another case last year against MWD.
"On July 12 (2004), Morgan Stanley, a corporate finance leader, settled a sex discrimination lawsuit brought against them by Allison Schieffelin, a bond trader who had been fired by Morgan Stanley over four years ago. In the settlement, Schieffelin will receive $12 million, and another $40 million will be available to any of the 340 women who worked in Schieffelin’s department who can prove that they were also discriminated against. Another $2 million will go towards corporate education hoped to curb sex discrimination.
It is likely that Morgan Stanley agreed to the settlement because they wanted to avoid the embarrassment associated with having the activities of some of its employees aired in public. They also probably did not want to disclose many of their corporate salaries and incentive plans. As for the actual case, the odds of winning were in their favor."
Right or wrong...a court could have the final anwer. It seems that Wallstreet is finally having to deal with workers rights.
[quote=rickmwd]
Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967?
"Recently (4/2005), the Supreme Court ruled that older workers may sue their employers under the Age Discrimination in Employment Act for the employer's use of a practice or policy that, although non-discriminatory on its face, has a disproportionately negative impact on older employees as a group."
My office let go nine 40+. Last month they hired six in their 20's. Does something smell bad?
Maybe MWD is going to write another big check to settle this matter. MWD may think they were correct in the policy of using LOS, but the court still allows a case to be filed. I'm sure we'll be seeing some sort of action soon.
[/quote]
BFD, people were let go because of production, not age. I doubt MS is worried no matter how worked up the usual ambulance chasers get.
Allison was not is sales, she was on the bond desk. ANY sales organization can let anyone go who is not meeting their expectations. I would be scared to walk onto a car lot if sales organizations were not allowed to thin off their lower producers. I would be stampeded by 2000 chain smoking guys in short sleeves and ties.
Ms says trainees and new FAs will “gain” from this. Since staying
brokers will accumulate more assets, they may want to focus on HNW
clients and may be prone to sharing smaller accounts (50-75K or less)
and give a break to newbies.
Any thoughts?
I just got into production, hired back in April, I don’t see any “breaks” being given to anyone. No one in our office was let go. They have been very fair with me. It is what you make of it. I am not looking for any handouts. I would rather develop my own client base then have to deal with a client that was unhappy from a previous broker. I am perfectly capable of screwing things up on my own-I don’t need to pick up someone elses mess. Not goal orientated and structured, get out of the business because you are going to get eaten alive! Do your job, hit your goals, service your clients, rinse repeat.
[quote=assetgatherer]I just got into production, hired back in April, I
don’t see any “breaks” being given to anyone. No one in our office was
let go. They have been very fair with me. It is what you make of it. I
am not looking for any handouts. I would rather develop my own client
base then have to deal with a client that was unhappy from a previous
broker. I am perfectly capable of screwing things up on my own-I don’t
need to pick up someone elses mess. Not goal orientated and structured,
get out of the business because you are going to get eaten alive! Do
your job, hit your goals, service your clients, rinse repeat.[/quote]
So much wisdom from a newbie…
[quote=SaySo] Ms says trainees and new FAs will “gain” from this. Since staying
brokers will accumulate more assets, they may want to focus on HNW
clients and may be prone to sharing smaller accounts (50-75K or less)
and give a break to newbies.
Any thoughts?
[/quote]
The only thing I did more than hire trainee’s as a former MS manager, was fire trainee’s. You will be getting accounts that generate no revenue. Pray that a senior broker supports you. The dirty little secret at MS is that 90% of the trainee’s don’t make it. You are just a number on their challenge goals, nothing more. Ask you manager if it really matters to him financially if you suceed? He will not be in that office in five years to reap any of the business you bring in. He has a training number to hit, that is not based on how well you perform. In fact, if you do really well the bonus comes out of his branch’s P&L, which costs him money. Enjoy!!
Hey F-D...
I am condidering the mgm't route at MS...what are your thoughts?
It still is a buddy system. I would tell you to cut a guaranteed deal before you become a manager at MS. They promise the world and do not deliver. Check how MS managers rank in pay against the competition, dead last. It’s a brown-nose culture that Alonso set up for managers, and as long as Burke and Sanchez are there it will continue.
It's hard to cut a deal if it is something you want and they can giv eit to you.
Are there certain metrics, ratios or the like i should be concerned with when looking at an office to hang my hat re:bonuses and the like?
[quote=F-DPatrick]The only thing I did more than hire trainee’s as a
former MS manager, was fire trainee’s. You will be getting accounts
that generate no revenue. Pray that a senior broker supports you. The
dirty little secret at MS is that 90% of the trainee’s don’t make it.
You are just a number on their challenge goals, nothing more. Ask you
manager if it really matters to him financially if you suceed? He will
not be in that office in five years to reap any of the business you
bring in. He has a training number to hit, that is not based on how
well you perform. In fact, if you do really well the bonus comes out of
his branch’s P&L, which costs him money. Enjoy!![/quote]
Thanks F-D,
I wish I had heard this from you before I took the job. But I like it.
I know the odds are against trainees, but I think it’s worth a shot. I
am confident because 1/3 of my class probably won’t pass the 7/66
(slacking, not studying…), the other 1/3 are too ‘green’, fresh out
of college to make it after the 7/66/31. I am with the remaining 1/3
that have strong chances of passing the 7/66/31/Insur. and decent
chances of making it after the 1st year.
It’s worth a shot, the rewards are worthwhile. You said 90% fail the trainee program… the way I see it, 10% pass!
I have been a top 1% business student, excelled in an outside sales
career during school, and am hungry for a rewarding career. I will make
it.
Thank you for your advice, makes me look at management differently. I hope I’m not being naive, but I have faith I will make it.
I am new to the business, but with the payout % that I have seen, I wonder why anyone would still be in this business after 8 years and only 250k in production?
[quote=ringo][quote=tmorris93]I am new to the business, but with the payout % that I have seen, I wonder why anyone would still be in this business after 8 years and only 250k in production? [/quote] [/quote]
Come on.....if you could make $100,000 per year, by doing as little as possible, why would you leave???? 100 hundred grand is still a pretty darn good income. Do you know how many accountants are killing themselves with 90 hour work weeks, to make a hundy?? Middle managers at companies...same thing.
[quote=assetgatherer]I just got into production, hired back in April, I don't see any "breaks" being given to anyone. No one in our office was let go. They have been very fair with me. It is what you make of it. I am not looking for any handouts. I would rather develop my own client base then have to deal with a client that was unhappy from a previous broker. I am perfectly capable of screwing things up on my own-I don't need to pick up someone elses mess. Not goal orientated and structured, get out of the business because you are going to get eaten alive! Do your job, hit your goals, service your clients, rinse repeat.[/quote]
Spoken like a true veteran of 60 days in production!! Here is some FREE advice....start looking for handouts!
F-DPatrick
How is Cedero doing? What about Jeff Schwartz?
I just saw Cedro with a sandwich board outside of McDonalds.
[quote=moneyadvisor]
[quote=ringo][quote=tmorris93]I am new to the business, but with the payout % that I have seen, I wonder why anyone would still be in this business after 8 years and only 250k in production? [/quote] [/quote]
Come on.....if you could make $100,000 per year, by doing as little as possible, why would you leave???? 100 hundred grand is still a pretty darn good income. Do you know how many accountants are killing themselves with 90 hour work weeks, to make a hundy?? Middle managers at companies...same thing.
[/quote]
250k in production ain't $100k in gross income. It's more like $80k at a wirehouse.
[quote=SaySo] [quote=F-DPatrick]The only thing I did more than hire trainee’s as a
former MS manager, was fire trainee’s. You will be getting accounts
that generate no revenue. Pray that a senior broker supports you. The
dirty little secret at MS is that 90% of the trainee’s don’t make it.
You are just a number on their challenge goals, nothing more. Ask you
manager if it really matters to him financially if you suceed? He will
not be in that office in five years to reap any of the business you
bring in. He has a training number to hit, that is not based on how
well you perform. In fact, if you do really well the bonus comes out of
his branch’s P&L, which costs him money. Enjoy!![/quote]
Thanks F-D,
I wish I had heard this from you before I took the job. But I like it.
I know the odds are against trainees, but I think it’s worth a shot. I
am confident because 1/3 of my class probably won’t pass the 7/66
(slacking, not studying…), the other 1/3 are too ‘green’, fresh out
of college to make it after the 7/66/31. I am with the remaining 1/3
that have strong chances of passing the 7/66/31/Insur. and decent
chances of making it after the 1st year.
It’s worth a shot, the rewards are worthwhile. You said 90% fail the trainee program… the way I see it, 10% pass!
I have been a top 1% business student, excelled in an outside sales
career during school, and am hungry for a rewarding career. I will make
it.
Thank you for your advice, makes me look at management differently. I hope I’m not being naive, but I have faith I will make it.
[/quote]
[quote=MSdog][quote=moneyadvisor]
[quote=ringo][quote=tmorris93]I am new to the business, but with the payout % that I have seen, I wonder why anyone would still be in this business after 8 years and only 250k in production? [/quote] [/quote]
Come on.....if you could make $100,000 per year, by doing as little as possible, why would you leave???? 100 hundred grand is still a pretty darn good income. Do you know how many accountants are killing themselves with 90 hour work weeks, to make a hundy?? Middle managers at companies...same thing.
[/quote]
250k in production ain't $100k in gross income. It's more like $80k at a wirehouse.
[/quote]
No......$250,000 gross.....is.....$100k - $125,000. depending on the account. You LOSERS who make crap up, and spew unfounded information regarding the practices of "the wires" are just ignorant!
AB=37%
Trans=34%
SO if you are 50/50 at 250k, your paycheck would be $88,750...I just want to know where the other $161,250 goes!
Moneyadvisor-were you born pissed off or did you have to work at it?
i did’nt think anyone noticed??
Moneyadvisor-That was a very quick response-I am extremely impressed!
AG-I am not PO’d but some things really strike a cord with me.
[quote=moneyadvisor][quote=MSdog][quote=moneyadvisor]
[quote=ringo][quote=tmorris93]I am new to the business, but with the payout % that I have seen, I wonder why anyone would still be in this business after 8 years and only 250k in production? [/quote] [/quote]
Come on.....if you could make $100,000 per year, by doing as little as possible, why would you leave???? 100 hundred grand is still a pretty darn good income. Do you know how many accountants are killing themselves with 90 hour work weeks, to make a hundy?? Middle managers at companies...same thing.
[/quote]
250k in production ain't $100k in gross income. It's more like $80k at a wirehouse.
[/quote]
No......$250,000 gross.....is.....$100k - $125,000. depending on the account. You LOSERS who make crap up, and spew unfounded information regarding the practices of "the wires" are just ignorant!
[/quote]
We were talking about a rep who worked at MS. At MS production under $250k is paid (as it says above) AB 37%, TB 34% (my bad for thinking 32%). Thus, even at 100% asset based, we're talking from $85k to max $92.5K. It isn't $100k.
oh…my bad.
[quote=moneyadvisor]oh..........my bad.[/quote]
No sweat, even after the "LOSERS" and "make things up" talk
I thought I was correct two years ago....soon we will know
MS makes almost all their money on the investment banking side, I heard up to 90%. The retail side is a liability and a means for the partners to find the HNW clients. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the wirehouse firms take a Goldman approach, a more boutique style that caters to the wealthy and get rid of the retail liabilities.
[quote=rickmwd]
I thought I was correct two years ago....soon we will know
[/quote] I wouldn't bet against bogus lawsuits paying off these days, OTOH, if you can't fire someone for being over LOS 11 and doing under $225K (and only god knows how a loser like that even shows his face in the office, much less how he whines about getting canned) then you can't fire anyone.Mike
Spoken like a true company man! Someday you will find out how they feel about you and there clients.[quote=Greenbacks]Mike
Spoken like a true company man! Someday you will find out how they feel about you and there clients. [/quote] You can always be counted on, Greenbacks, to spout something about wirehouses and how they're unethical, how they abuse clients and FAs alike. Tell me, and no dodging the question please, do you have any first hand experience? Have you ever been at a wirehouse? I have to say, I suspect you haven't (I wouldn't even guess that you're a bitter washout) because your posts come off as a jealous competitor. To this issue specifically, are you telling me it was unethical or wrong in some way for MS to have laid off FAs who were >LOS 11 and doing under $225k?Mike, it’s important that you remember that indy’s have different standards. A <11 LOS @ $225k with $35MM in the wirehouse world is called a loser. In the nirvana like world of RIA’s and indy’s he’s called above average (according to published and verified industry reports. To include LPL published #'s).
my sale of ms at 60-61 looks a lot better now than 6 months ago. i am so glad i am out of there.
by the way 225k gross nets you 200k as an independent.... not that bad.[quote=aldo63]my sale of ms at 60-61 looks a lot better now than 6 months ago. i am so glad i am out of there.
by the way 225k gross nets you 200k as an independent.... not that bad. [/quote]Aldo you must have some really low expenses to net that....
[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=aldo63]my sale of ms at 60-61 looks a lot better now than 6 months ago. i am so glad i am out of there.
by the way 225k gross nets you 200k as an independent.... not that bad. [/quote]Aldo you must have some really low expenses to net that....
[/quote] Aldo's expenses are so low he can't ever afford to spend money on a caps key. Actually Aldo was shown the door (or was it that his buddy was, so he went with him) and went to a regional, so he's just guessing about indy expenses. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me that an firm in this biz, any firm, shouldn't be able to fire someone with performance so dismal that after 11 years in the biz he's still doing under $225k.....
[quote=mikebutler222][quote=Greenbacks]Mike
Spoken like a true company man! Someday you will find out how they feel about you and there clients. [/quote] You can always be counted on, Greenbacks, to spout something about wirehouses and how they're unethical, how they abuse clients and FAs alike. Tell me, and no dodging the question please, do you have any first hand experience? Have you ever been at a wirehouse? I have to say, I suspect you haven't (I wouldn't even guess that you're a bitter washout) because your posts come off as a jealous competitor. Mike, I have never worked at a wirehouse.But I can thank the screw ups at a couple of wirehouses for getting me started.Let me explain. I was working at a fairly large CPA firm in the midwest. As we did clients taxes we noticed how poor the advice was it did not meet our clients objectives. Also every year most of them would have a different rep managing there account. We also noticed that the clients with indies or RIA's seem to keep there reps and the advice seemed more unbiased no company products. To make a long story short I started studying for my CFP after passing it. I then started doing planning for our clients with the help of the other accountants. As a frm we realized CPA's could not do taxes and investments there plate is full.. The accountants really taught me financial planning. That is why I am a planner today. As far as my ax to grind with wire houses it is not with the reps but the firms they work for! Granted there are some fine reps at the wire houses, my beef is the way the firms treat employees and clients. As far as how they treat there employees AG EDWARDS is enough said. You can never trust them. For the life of me I do not understand why they choose to stay. I will do about 375,000 this year. At a wire house it would not be enough and every year they would want more. For me that is no way to live. I admit I do not like stress! I also believe this job should not be a competition. Most of the big producers I have met have big egos and no family life. I would not want there life. As an indy I pick my own hours ski when I want back pack, camp, jeep, climb 14ers and spend time with my family. Granted I live in a ski town in Colorado because I choose too. I cannot imagine having to worry about whether I would have a job next week because I missed my numbers for what ever reason. When I retire I do not want look at my wrist and see a Gold watch for all my efforts I want more. Sorry this took so long to get back to you but we have had eight feet of snow in seven days so I have been skiing. POWDER Have a great weekend it is still snowing here so I will be skiing again this weekend[quote=Greenbacks] Mike, I have never worked at a wirehouse.[/quote]
Ahhh, so you’ve never worked at one, you have no idea what the culture is, your claims that FAs are told what to buy and what to sell, all at the disadvantage to the client, and the claims that they don’t care about their clients, it’s all supposition.
[quote=Greenbacks]
Granted there are some fine reps at the wire houses, my beef is the way the firms treat employees and clients. [/quote]
As if you know anything about it.
[quote=Greenbacks] As far as how they treat there employees AG EDWARDS is enough said. You can never trust them. [/quote]
“Enough said”? They gave people money to keep the jobs they already have and you make that some major betrayal? What are you talking about? I don’t care where you hang your hat, you’d better be the master of your own career, but to throw that around is just plain silly.
[quote=Greenbacks] For the life of me I do not understand why they choose to stay.[/quote]
Give that the biggest producers in the industry choose to stay, perhaps they know thing s you don’t. More to the point, ever considered that your POV about life and ethics at wirehouses is nothing more than ill-informed nonsense? In fact, after I read your response I was more sure than every that yours is little more that the talk of a jealous competitor.
[quote=Greenbacks] I cannot imagine having to worry about whether I would have a job next week because I missed my numbers for what ever reason. [/quote]
That’s the basis for your assertion that a firm is wrong to bump out people who’ve been in the industry over 11 years and can’t clear $225 in production? That’s not quite “next week”, that’s eleven years of poor performance.
Look, I’m happy for you that you’re enjoying indy life, just try not to make a fool of yourself with assertions about the ethics and professionalism of other parts of the industry that you know nothing about.
[/quote=aldo63]mike
i have had this stupid battle with you before. You insisted I was fired for lack of production. You also badmouthed me over and over on this forum. [/quote]
That’s not how I recall it. As I remember I never had anything to say to you until you started a holy campaign of bad mouthing MS after the firings and I responded, defending getting rid of people who couldn’t clear $225K after 11 years of trying. A couple of guys from your old office emailed me and phoned me with details. Seems they weren’t sad to see you go. They said you were as consistently negative there as you are here.
Notice the firm hasn’t been sold (as you said it would be) and notice there hasn’t been another wave off lay-offs (as you said there would be). The stock price, which you mention below, took off after Gorman cleaned house, FA production has increased greatly and you can’t find any more of the old plaid polyester sport jackets DW was known for from back in the “stock and socks” days. It took a power washer and gallons of ammonia, but it was scrubbed clean, I couldn‘t be happier about it and moral is high.
[/quote=aldo63]
Do you want me to send this to your regional guy???? [/quote]
Ohhh, a threat. Knock yourself out, big boy….I’m sure I’m guilty of something, let me think….
[/quote=aldo63]here is the on wall street article that i sent you by private email showing my move. i will publish all your PM and info if you want me too. I have not because i am not an ass. [/quote]
Just ass enough to make the threat, eh? I don’t recall saying you were canned, I do recall saying the firings were a positive thing, and that I was happy the DW of old was finally dead. I also recall thinking it was strange that you knew you wouldn’t like the place after the make over and how strange it was that you’d defend long-LOS underperformance, but I don’t recall saying you were fired.
[/quote=aldo63] I am not afraid to say who I am because I have nothing to hide. I only wish I started here and bypassed my years at DWD/MS. Given your stock price, maybe we will buy you..hahahahahahah. [/quote]
You may have noticed the entire financial services industry has been hit. We’re off no more than anyone less, less than most. I have a feeling if there was a purchase between us, your side wouldn’t be doing it, and it wouldn’t require much out of the kitty to achieve. Having said that, I don’t mean to belittle your firm. I genuinely hope you’re happy there.
[/quote=aldo63]
I liked dean witter and am not afraid to say that and Dean Witter bought Morgan Stanley..not the other way around [/quote]
The way Phil ran the place, paying more for FAs to sell proprietary funds, refusing to integrate platforms, some people I suppose did like that. Given how DW stock declined after the merger until Mack came back and took hold of the place, how Phil managed to embarrass himself and the firm with continuously stupid comments (the one making light of a massive SEC fine the day after it was paid, the comment that he had to apologize for after the SEC slapped him again) I was happy to see him go, to see the place scrubbed clean of the DW hair oil and Old Spice, to see professionalism introduced and deadwood cut away.
[/quote=aldo63]
i am the first name... do you want me to expose you....again. i did go, i did leave when they fired my friend...you would not understand that would you?
[/quote]
“Expose you again”? Wow, the panties are really in a wad, aren’t they? I’m glad you’re happy at your new firm. Enjoy it there. I remember thinking when you started this whole tirade about how evil the lay-offs where “Who could defend keeping deadwood around and who could be sad that the single worst reputation wirehouse on the street is finally being upgraded by being integrated with one of the finest IBs in the world?”.
I still don’t have an answer to that. BTW, did you take my “can’t afford a caps key” above, referring to your post about what $225K nets an indy as me saying you were fired for performance? That wasn’t the intention of the remark, it was to, as Joe said, point out how low your overhead (not yours, obviously, you didn’t go indy) has to be to net that much and it was about your constant use of all lower case in your posts.
[quote=aldo63]mike
i have had this stupid battle with you before. You insisted I was fired for lack of production. You also badmouthed me over and over on this forum. [/quote]
That’s not how I recall it. As I remember I never had anything to say to you until you started a holy campaign of bad mouthing MS after the firings and I responded, defending getting rid of people who couldn’t clear $225K after 11 years of trying. A couple of guys from your old office emailed me and phoned me with details. Seems they weren’t sad to see you go. They said you were as consistently negative there as you are here. When we exchanged PMs about what they said, you said it wasn't you laid off, it was your friend, and you left that the same time. You then sent me the "on Wall Street" piece you mentioned below. I frankly don't know what to believe, and I'm not sure what you prove giving me the name and a number. Moreover, I don't know why I should care since the issue to me was never YOU to begin with, but your response here to the firings.
Notice the firm hasn’t been sold (as you said it would be) and notice there hasn’t been another wave off lay-offs (as you said there would be). The stock price, which you mention below, took off after Gorman cleaned house, FA production has increased greatly and you can’t find any more of the old plaid polyester sport jackets DW was known for from back in the “stock and socks” days. It took a power washer and gallons of ammonia, but it was scrubbed clean, I couldn‘t be happier about it and moral is high. You may have noticed some articles in the industry press saying the same thing.
[quote=aldo63]
Do you want me to send this to your regional guy???? [/quote]
Ohhh, a threat. Knock yourself out, big boy….I’m sure I’m guilty of something, let me think….PM me and I'll give you the phone number, all the regions (and managers) have changed since you left.
[quote=aldo63]here is the on wall street article that i sent you by private email showing my move. i will publish all your PM and info if you want me too. I have not because i am not an ass. [/quote]
Just ass enough to make the threat, eh? I don’t recall saying you were canned, I do recall saying the firings were a positive thing, and that I was happy the DW of old was finally dead. I also recall thinking it was strange that you knew you wouldn’t like the place after the make over and how strange it was that you’d defend long-LOS underperformance, but I don’t recall saying you were fired.
[quote=aldo63] I am not afraid to say who I am because I have nothing to hide. I only wish I started here and bypassed my years at DWD/MS. Given your stock price, maybe we will buy you..hahahahahahah. [/quote]
You may have noticed the entire financial services industry has been hit. We’re off no more than anyone less, less than most. I have a feeling if there was a purchase between us, your side wouldn’t be doing it, and it wouldn’t require much out of the kitty to achieve. Having said that, I don’t mean to belittle your firm. I genuinely hope you’re happy there.
[quote=aldo63]
I liked dean witter and am not afraid to say that and Dean Witter bought Morgan Stanley..not the other way around [/quote]
The way Phil ran the place, paying more for FAs to sell proprietary funds, refusing to integrate platforms, some people I suppose did like that, and that was DW "buying" MS. That's what prompted the "Blue Blood Mutiny" (great book, btw). Given how DW stock declined after the merger until Mack came back and took hold of the place, how Phil managed to embarrass himself and the firm with continuously stupid comments (the one making light of a massive SEC fine the day after it was paid, the comment that he had to apologize for after the SEC slapped him again) I was happy to see him go, to see the place scrubbed clean of the DW hair oil and Old Spice, to see professionalism introduced and deadwood cut away.
[quote=aldo63]
i am the first name... do you want me to expose you....again. i did go, i did leave when they fired my friend...you would not understand that would you?
[/quote]
“Expose you again”? Wow, the panties are really in a wad, aren’t they? I’m glad you’re happy at your new firm. Enjoy it there. I remember thinking when you started this whole tirade about how evil the lay-offs where “Who could defend keeping deadwood around and who could be sad that the single worst reputation wirehouse on the street is finally being upgraded by being integrated with one of the finest IBs in the world?”.
I still don’t have an answer to that. BTW, did you take my “can’t afford a caps key” above, referring to your post about what $225K nets an indy as me saying you were fired for performance? That wasn’t the intention of the remark, it was to, as Joe said, point out how low your overhead (not yours, obviously, you didn’t go indy) has to be to net that much and it was about your constant use of all lower case in your posts.
OK, Aldo & Mike, both of you go to time out for 20 minutes.
Seriously, guys, what’s the point of this battle? It’s not like either one of you are going to suddenly convince the other that they are mistaken about their OPINION.
Drop it. Agree to disagree. Move on.
Hop off the bus, Gus. Make a new plan, Stan. No need to be coy, Roy … just listen to me.
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