Morgan Stanley/Smith Barney From A Client's POV
I’ve had an account at Smith Barney for years (changed FA’s when I moved a while back). Don’t know a thing about Morgan Stanley except when I hear the name - I associate it with Sears. I have other brokerage accounts as well - and - over the years - have increasingly moved my business to places where I can buy fixed income products (most of what I buy) on line cheap. I like my FA at Smith Barney ok - but basically make all of my own investment decisions. The fixed income prices at Smith Barney aren’t as good as those on line - but they are better than those at other full service firms. Also - even if my FA at Smith Barney is ok - what he will be able to offer me may differ once the firm changes (I get the impression that Morgan Stanley will be in charge). I have until 5/30 to decide whether to move my Smith Barney account to another firm without being charged.
Any ideas/impressions/gossip about what this transition will mean for clients would be welcome. RobynYou should move where-ever your FA goes and please do not use this forum. It is for professionals only.
Robyn,
Your main goal as an investors seems to be making sure no broker makes a dime from your business. I find it ironic that you would actively seek the anonymous advice of others in his field about, basically, how to screw your broker. Besides, you’re investing “online”, you’ve got it all figured out. Good luck. If you stick around here, you’ll need it.
[quote=RobynG].
Any ideas/impressions/gossip about what this transition will mean for clients would be welcome. Robyn[/quote] What it means for clients has nothing to do with what it means for you, as you're just a customer, at best. Jump up on your desk and do your best Gorilla Trade impersonation while filling out your transfer paperwork. Buh-bye.leech!
I think if I were simply a leech I wouldn’t have posted unsolicited info about bankruptcy in the thread where an unfortunate member of this chat board is facing serious problems (not that I am an expert - but perhaps I know a little more than other people here).
And you all basically have it wrong. I happen to be a conservative investor with a reasonable amount of money (not Bill Gates territory by a long shot - but not peanuts either) who doesn't like to keep amounts in excess of SIPC coverage in any particular brokerage firm. No matter what I pay for things. I am more concerned about losing principal if a firm becomes insolvent - not an unreasonable thought these days - than paying a couple of hundred dollars extra if I buy some munis. So I have both discount and full service brokerage firm accounts (Smith Barney and UBS are the full service ones). OTOH - I don't like to get screwed by firms with trading desks that add so much extra to the "wholesale" prices that their brokers have to charge unreasonable amounts to make a buck. I won't name names - I'm sure you guys know which trading desks add so many points to the "wholesale price" that it's hard for you to quote competitive prices and make a living. If I'm going to pay more - I'd rather pay it to the broker who does some work for me - the guy who talks to me on the phone - not to some guy on the trading desk who just pushes the same buy/sell button I can push on a computer at a discount broker. FWIW - with investinginbonds.com - it is very easy to see real time pricing these days. I don't care if I don't get the absolute cheapest price - but I refuse to get screwed by a greedy trading desk. So it was a very honest question about what you all thought the new firm would be like. I know these are tough times in your business. But - although I have been told that I am not supposed to be here because this is "professional board" - anyone in the whole world can read what you write. So I would try to be at least a bit civilized. Robyn P.S. I was an NASD arbitrator. Don't know if that counts as "professional".I can’t imagine things getting better for the clients or FA’s in this merger…I have been there done that. Worked for the best if not one of the best firms for Clients and FA’s at AG Edwards…when Big Bank/Big Brokerage gets involved, the bottom line is ALL that is important…Clients and FA’s are numbers and dots on a graph.
If you want great service, and fair prices I would suggest you look for a broker at a non Bank/Investment Bank owned firm…alot of clients and brokers ar moving to firms like Stifel, Raymond James etc because you cab’t trust these Big Firms as far as you can throw them.
Personally I moved to Stifel from AGE/Wachovia this year, my clients and I have never been happier. The difference in fixed income pricing is staggering, brokers at Wachovia can’t compete with what I can offer now.
my opinion is that this merger will be transparent to the client, no matter what the marketers tell you, they’ll brag about economies of scale and by being large we can bring all kinds of goodies to the clients. this is in response to robyn- u should only be at a firm that provides what u need. fixed income is a commodity pure and simple, some firms at different times will have better yields on various products, your broker/advisor has to be willing to look for them for you and quite honestly these firms do not compensate us much for buying cds/munis/corps.
And another thing. My UBS team (my FA and his assistant - who is fabulous) - well I have been with them since they were at Kidder. Than Paine Webber - then UBS. 15-20 years? And he is in the midwest - and I am in Florida (we were introduced by a mutual friend who’s a fixed income manager). Only met the guy once for 30 minutes when he was here in Florida to play in a golf tournament. So I’m not exactly a flighty person - going from one firm to another to save a few bucks. But when I read stories about big shots in the bank not wanting to travel to the US because of fear of questioning/arrests about tax fraud - it does give one pause.
Stuff like this makes clients nervous these days. At least it makes me nervous (perhaps I am too nervous - but being nervous has served me well in recent years). I am not the kind of person who is taking my $25k retirement account and moving it from a full service firm to E*Trade to become a day trader because I am down 50%. I just wonder what the heck is going on. And was looking for serious observations about Morgan Stanley (about which I know nothing). Oh - and I forgot - I also have an account with JBH (now part of RBC). Guess that would qualify as a full service firm too. And my FA there is in New Jersey. Have been with him for over 5 years. Never met the guy in person. RobynMorgan is a good company with a lot of the same products that your SB guy has access to right now. They have the same kind of trading desks as well. I wouldn’t guess you’re going to see a great change in the way business is done at either firm when they merge.
You do understand that you came onto a forum for advisors who make a living selling people bonds (among other things), asked for advice, then said you bought your bonds online because the prices were better. We understand that the prices are better online. Vanguard has the following it does because they are the cheapest. Not the best, but the cheapest. It's like getting all the advice on what flat screen to buy from the guy at the boutique shop, then going to Best Buy to buy the thing. Kind of rubs us the wrong way. As for your SB guy. If he's not giving you the service you feel would be worth paying the extra bps for on your bond trades, then you need to dump him and get someone new. The company you do business with is rather immaterial. The advisor is what should make or break the deal. Or you should just do everything online. Not just your bonds, but your funds, stocks, ETFs, everything and take the advisor decision out of the picture. Find your uber broker and give him all of your money. I promise you that you'll get the service you feel you deserve. I'm accepting new clients by the way. I call all of my good clients once a month. We do baseball games in the summer. Client appreciation events at Christmas. And lots of other activities in between. My firm covers your assets in the event of theft, misplacement, destruction, burglary, embezzlement or abstraction up to $1 Billion. If you need more than the $500K SIPC insurance and the extra insurance combo, I'm sure we can arrange something.[quote=RobynG]And another thing. My UBS team (my FA and his assistant - who is fabulous) - well I have been with them since they were at Kidder. Than Paine Webber - then UBS. 15-20 years? And he is in the midwest - and I am in Florida (we were introduced by a mutual friend who’s a fixed income manager). Only met the guy once for 30 minutes when he was here in Florida to play in a golf tournament. So I’m not exactly a flighty person - going from one firm to another to save a few bucks. But when I read stories about big shots in the bank not wanting to travel to the US because of fear of questioning/arrests about tax fraud - it does give one pause.
Stuff like this makes clients nervous these days. At least it makes me nervous (perhaps I am too nervous - but being nervous has served me well in recent years). I am not the kind of person who is taking my $25k retirement account and moving it from a full service firm to E*Trade to become a day trader because I am down 50%. I just wonder what the heck is going on. And was looking for serious observations about Morgan Stanley (about which I know nothing). Oh - and I forgot - I also have an account with JBH (now part of RBC). Guess that would qualify as a full service firm too. And my FA there is in New Jersey. Have been with him for over 5 years. Never met the guy in person. Robyn [/quote] Very good posts. Educated investors make the best clients. Every wirehouse is going to mark up bonds 1/8 - 1/2 for the desk, to get the best buys, you just need a broker who can sort through inventories and find the bonds that fits the quality, maturity and coupon you are looking for. This market is so sloppy, a full service broker can get you the best deals if he/she knows what to look for. Most online sources I have seen don't actually own the bonds they are showing, they are just showing other dealer offerings. A firm like MS/SB is going to have a huge inventory of muni's, there will definitely be some cheap ones in their if your guy knows what he is looking at. If you like him, stay, you will be fine.Didn’t mean to be so brash with my “leech” comment, but you would drive many advisors nuts. I commend you for your research but it sounds like you should just do your own investing.
The one thing I don’t understand is that you are very nervous and yet you trust your money with brokers you only met once. I don’t get that at all.
[quote=RobynG]who doesn't like to keep amounts in excess of SIPC coverage in any particular brokerage firm. No matter what I pay for things. I am more concerned about losing principal if a firm becomes insolvent -[/quote] <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
With your background in the industry you should be informed enough to know that you won't lose principal if the firm you deal with folds (with very limited exceptions having to do with proprietary products you may own). Most every firm carries insurance well in excess of their SIPC coverage and your assets aren't part of their balance sheets to begin with.
[quote=RobynG] So I have both discount and full service brokerage firm accounts (Smith Barney and UBS are the full service ones). [/quote]
I wouldn't deal with a client that was trying to cherry pick pricing. I wouldn't trust you to not take my ideas and execute them on your discount trading platform. Life's too short to deal with people you can't trust.
[quote=RobynG] So it was a very honest question about what you all thought the new firm would be like. [/quote]
For you, the customer (others were right, you're not really a client) as others have mentioned, there are advantages, like increased fixed income inventory. The real question is will this new firm stress client service assistance to your rep, or will it cut corners on staffing and technology and limit his ability to provide you with the level of service you deserve. Only time will tell on that one.
BTW, no offense intended, but if you think Sears, and not more like Goldman, when you hear MS, you're dealing with very dated perceptions.
Thanks for all of these comments. In no particular order - Conrad - I am sure my perception of MS is dated (and I’ve never had an account there). That’s why I asked my question.
Nor do I "cherry pick". I am an experienced fixed income investor (30+ years) - and do all my own research (both in terms of deciding when to buy and what to buy). Then I try to find out where I can buy it. I "buy" things from firms - firms don't "sell" them to me. For example - if there's a new issue muni I'm interested in - I'll try to find out who's in the underwriting group - and - if I have an account at one of those firms - I'll call that firm. Smith Barney has been involved in a fair amount of new issue munis recently. Will that continue with MS? OTOH - Smith Barney stopped selling longer term callable CDs maybe 2-3 years ago (said they were too risky ). Does MS offer those? I realize I'm a bit unusual - but I get along fine with the firms I deal with - don't drive them nuts. I don't bother them with silly questions - and they don't bother calling me about stuff that is of no interest to me. If I call - they know I'm interested in buying X - and want to see if they can get it for me. And that's why I don't mind dealing with brokers I've never met. As long as they know what they're doing - I don't care what they look like. And you can tell if a broker knows what he or she is doing. My FA at SB was out when I called about a new issue muni a couple of months ago - and his office manager couldn't figure out how to find a new issue muni on his computer (he explained he wasn't a fixed income guy). I understand how investor protection works. One reason I "spread money around" is not only SIPC coverage - but having access to money in my brokerage accounts. You may get your assets/money from a SIPC receiver - but not necessarily tomorrow. FWIW - I did have a brokered CD go belly up last year (my first experience with that). The FDIC did make good on it - but not the next day (like you'd find with a neighborhood branch bank). It took one firm 3 weeks to get the FDIC proceeds - took another firm about 5 weeks. Luckily I didn't need the money right away. IOW - one of my concerns is liquidity. As for excess insurance over SIPC - I still have some small muni issues I bought years ago where I am almost clueless regarding worth after their insurance wrappers turned into junk. So I am not relying on insurance for much of anything these days (and most firms seem to have their excess insurance with the same insurers). [more to follow]RobynG, you know what we do for a living here, so I’m just curious, what’s your employment/vocational background? You’re obviously well educated and much more informed than the average do-it-yourselfer.
[quote=mnbondguy]
Very good posts. Educated investors make the best clients. Every wirehouse is going to mark up bonds 1/8 - 1/2 for the desk, to get the best buys, you just need a broker who can sort through inventories and find the bonds that fits the quality, maturity and coupon you are looking for. This market is so sloppy, a full service broker can get you the best deals if he/she knows what to look for. Most online sources I have seen don't actually own the bonds they are showing, they are just showing other dealer offerings. A firm like MS/SB is going to have a huge inventory of muni's, there will definitely be some cheap ones in their if your guy knows what he is looking at. If you like him, stay, you will be fine.[/quote] I agree with you for the most part. Two of the 3 "on-line" firms I use (E*Trade and Zionsdirect) for munis/brokered CDs (don't do corporates these days) don't own a thing. They simply pass on BondDesk listings - totally unfiltered. The third - Fidelity - uses BondDesk too. Although it offers tons of munis - its CD offerings are much more limited. Fidelity also sometimes offers things from its own inventory (Fidelity has also started getting into underwriting new munis recently as well). Many full service firms use BondDesk. Some don't. Some offer things from their own inventory - others have really cut back on inventory in recent years. I do think my SB FA can run through lists and figure out what's cheap - and what's expensive. Depending on the market - he can sometimes get me a somewhat cheaper price than his trading desk quotes him originally. I have obviously never dealt directly with the trading desk at SB - but it always seemed a lot more reasonable to me than - for example - the trading desk at MER (haven't had an account there for a long time). IOW - I have no problems with him at all - and am not looking for an excuse to get rid of him. Just wonder how things might change under MS. To call the muni market during the last year "sloppy" is a bit of an understatement . Especially on the couple of occasions when hedge funds and the like were puking up munis to meet margin calls. (I chart a couple of muni things - and when I would see the charts spike - I would say to myself - here we go again!). Things have settled down in recent months - but I still think that parts of the muni market are priced attractively (although not at distress levels). RobynI think I pretty much understand the compensation problem. My impression is that brokers get paid best on things like new issue munis and new issue CDs. Is my impression correct? I generally don't bother full service brokers when I'm looking in the secondary market - because I know I won't get very good pricing - and they won't make peanuts. What's the sense of making 2 people unhappy? And I never did understand the real reason why SB stopped selling longer term callable CDs. I thought for a lot of years that they were really good investments (although yields have recently fallen to levels I don't consider attractive). Did the issuers stop paying reasonable fees to the firms that were selling them? FWIW - I am not picking on SB. Fidelity for years refused to offer longer term callable CDs to its customers - again giving the reason that they were too risky. Just never understood why I could buy naked options - and not callable CDs. Robynmy opinion is that this merger will be transparent to the client, no matter what the marketers tell you, they’ll brag about economies of scale and by being large we can bring all kinds of goodies to the clients. this is in response to robyn- u should only be at a firm that provides what u need. fixed income is a commodity pure and simple, some firms at different times will have better yields on various products, your broker/advisor has to be willing to look for them for you and quite honestly these firms do not compensate us much for buying cds/munis/corps.
I think I mentioned I'm a retired lawyer (Cornell '68/Harvard LS '71). My husband's a retired lawyer too. We retired relatively young after he made a fair amount of money as a personal injury lawyer. I was an appellate/legal research lawyer - and did a fair amount of tedious work - like cases involving insurance coverage. So fixed income research came pretty naturally to me . Also - my husband and I always thought that if we wanted to take big risks - he'd go back into the personal injury business. Most people think the jury system is kind of crazy (and it is) - but it's a lot more rational than the stock market IMO. Also - we first started working/investing when we got out of school - right before the '73-'74 recession. Nothing like getting your fingers chopped off when you first start working/investing to make you conservative (in almost everything you do). This is the third big real estate bust we've seen in Florida since we moved here in 1972. So I have just done and studied fixed income investing for a long time (although I have to admit that nothing I have ever experienced prepared me for what has happened in the last year - pretty scary stuff). Also got involved in the internet fairly early. I was a SYSOP on the Compuserve financial forum starting in the late 80's. Made friends with a lot of people in the financial industry there (those were the days when bigger deal people still talked in public on chat boards so smaller deal people like me could meet them). Along the way - I have met and been a (mostly confidential) press source for various financial writers and reporters. Stuff like that. So you're right. So I'm not exactly your average "client" when it comes to fixed income. I do trade a small part of my IRA in equities (used to use Fidelity Sector Funds - now I use index ETF's). Purely on technicals. I am no expert when it comes to that. About the best I can say is that if I were the head of the Harvard Endowment - I'd be rich as a result of outperforming my benchmark. Unfortunately - real life clients like me can't eat relative performance. OTOH - I really don't know beans about "Morgan Stanley Smith Barney" (and my question here is purely for my own personal purposes). Usually when I want to try a new firm - I do so with a little money (or no money - just to see what's there). See how it works out. If I don't like it - I close the account. If I do like it - the account grows. Over the years - different firms have met my needs better than others (my needs change - the firms change - etc.). Sometimes I have been forced into a new firm as a result of insolvency (Kidder ---> Paine Webber) or merger (Harrisdirect ---> E*Trade). Sometimes these forced transfers work out - sometimes they don't. Since I have time to think about this one - I'm just trying to get information before I decide what to do. RobynRobynG, you know what we do for a living here, so I’m just curious, what’s your employment/vocational background? You’re obviously well educated and much more informed than the average do-it-yourselfer.
Funny how no one even thinks about haggling a lawyers fee and pouring over those "billable hours"!!
[quote=RobynG]
I think I pretty much understand the compensation problem. My impression is that brokers get paid best on things like new issue munis and new issue CDs. Is my impression correct? I generally don't bother full service brokers when I'm looking in the secondary market - because I know I won't get very good pricing - and they won't make peanuts. What's the sense of making 2 people unhappy? [/quote] Generally speaking the secondary pays better. But that depends on the firm. At the wires the SC (sales credit) has been reduced as a way to act as a disincentive to the sales force. Managment steers its sales force in this way to get them away from transactional business and lead them toward fee business. The trading desks, acting as their own profit centers many times add too much vig to make their inventory competitive. This cuts into the SC the advior can add. Yet, not always the case. Still, the secondary offers flexibilty that the new issue market can't. Everybody can make money. And the better fixed income guys can make money while matching or beating online pricing. It's the world in which we live, utilize the internet to our advantage. Good traders who don't bump prices beyond buyable levels are key.He’s too busy fixing sh*t at his house.
He’s too busy fixing sh*t at his house.
I think I pretty much understand the compensation problem. My impression is that brokers get paid best on things like new issue munis and new issue CDs. Is my impression correct? I generally don't bother full service brokers when I'm looking in the secondary market - because I know I won't get very good pricing - and they won't make peanuts. What's the sense of making 2 people unhappy? And I never did understand the real reason why SB stopped selling longer term callable CDs. I thought for a lot of years that they were really good investments (although yields have recently fallen to levels I don't consider attractive). Did the issuers stop paying reasonable fees to the firms that were selling them? FWIW - I am not picking on SB. Fidelity for years refused to offer longer term callable CDs to its customers - again giving the reason that they were too risky. Just never understood why I could buy naked options - and not callable CDs. Robyn[/quote] Most new issues have about 3/8 - 5/8 point in them if they are negotiated deals depending on the deal and the maturity, on competitive deals, especially smaller ones, there can be as much as 1pt or more. If the deal is structured for retail, it probably has a decent commission in it. Most firms allow their brokers to adjust the commission on secondary items within a reasonable range. Just about every firm will show their bondesk etc offerings higher to the street then they will internally, so not all bondesk offerings will be the same at each firms, even though they share the platform. As far as your question on callable cd's, I would guess they were afraid of the lawyers. A long term callable cd will get smoked if rates would rise in a significant way. I think most firms price customers statements at market value, and many conservative investors would freak out if their safe cd was pricing at 90 cents on the dollar or lower.[quote=sickowire]my opinion is that this merger will be transparent to the client, no matter what the marketers tell you, they’ll brag about economies of scale and by being large we can bring all kinds of goodies to the clients. this is in response to robyn- u should only be at a firm that provides what u need. fixed income is a commodity pure and simple, some firms at different times will have better yields on various products, your broker/advisor has to be willing to look for them for you and quite honestly these firms do not compensate us much for buying cds/munis/corps.
Bond Guy is right on the money with his assessment…no pun intended. I usually work on a fee basis (100bps for blended (equity and fixed income portfolios) 50 bps for just fixed. As such, all bonds are purchased at the bid price with complete transparency, basically off of the street offerings…can’t charge commssions/mark-ups when working on a fee basis.
Losing the 50 bps annually may not make sense if you are buying 20 year bonds, but I have found that if I put the effort in on "short ladders" and want to do tax swaps at year end, I can generally put the client in a better position and save them money. It is just a matter of preference, effort, and client needs. Much easier to offer a solid bond fund with an upfront commssion than to research and structure a laddered portfolio at 50bps. And for many clients, the fund may be better suited. For more sizeable asset bases, the fee based structure might work. Don't know if all firms offer it.[quote=etj4588]
Funny how no one even thinks about haggling a lawyers fee and pouring over those "billable hours"!!
[/quote]
My husband was a plaintiffs' personal injury lawyer. Paid a percentage if he won - nothing if he lost. It would be nice if hedge fund managers - brokers with accounts with "wrap fees" - etc. - worked like that! I did plaintiffs' work on percentages - but also did work for outfits like insurance companies and corporations. And if you think those guys didn't haggle about fees. OMG. What a PITA. The worst were some insurance companies that chose lawyers based on how good a time a law firm would show them at some convention or another (and a "good time" usually involved women and booze). I never had the stomach to compete for clients that way. But that's nothing compared to today's allegations about how various investment firms wound up doing business with the New York state pension fund. I think there's slime (and good guys) in both of our professions. So let's call a truce. As my husband likes to say - we're recovering lawyers . Robyn[quote=RobynG][quote=etj4588]
Funny how no one even thinks about haggling a lawyers fee and pouring over those "billable hours"!!
[/quote]
My husband was a plaintiffs' personal injury lawyer. Paid a percentage if he won - nothing if he lost. It would be nice if hedge fund managers - brokers with accounts with "wrap fees" - etc. - worked like that! . Robyn[/quote] There are RIAs that work on a win percentage basis. My experience has been that they usually have a high risk strategy. Not for everybody.[quote=RobynG]
My husband was a plaintiffs' personal injury lawyer. Paid a percentage if he won - nothing if he lost. So let's call a truce. As my husband likes to say - we're recovering lawyers . Robyn[/quote]Truce called. My point was to simply bring out the fact that our profession does not garner the respect from the public - or even those in the industry - as the legal profession.
But the fact is that there are many of us that take what we do very seriously. We work hard, we put the clients before ourselves, we study and read incessantly, and no matter how good we are, uncontrollable events can dictate our success.
In no way would your profession ever have to compete with the equivalent of a baby placing stock trades on his blackberry!
Why are you concerned with SIPC insurance protection? If the firm fails, that doesn’t affect your bonds or other investments.
You confuse paranoia with prudence. And no - I didn't know that the reason I can't buy callable CDs from some full service firms (because they're not selling them these days) is because some brokers were misrepresenting them to clients. I used to buy lots from full service brokers - and it's *my* fault that some compliance officer halted their sale due to broker misrepresentation - so I'm buying them on line??? BTW - are you sure you're right about this? If so - that's a very bad statement about some people in your profession. RobynRobynG sounds like a nightmare client. She can’t stand it if someone makes a dime off her, Has no idea that the secondary market pays us better than syndicate, is paranoid enough to spread her money because of SIPC insurance, doesn’t understand that firms stopped selling callable cd’s because brokers were marketing them as 1 year cds, and knows just enough about bonds to be dangerous. I had a client just like her about 8 years ago and it was an absolute pleasure to fire him.
Like I said - my main concern is liquidity. If you review cases like the Stanford and Madoff cases - you'll see that accounts can be frozen for unspecified periods of time. The last thing in the world I want is to be totally illiquid because I have all my eggs in one basket. RobynWhy are you concerned with SIPC insurance protection? If the firm fails, that doesn’t affect your bonds or other investments.
[quote=etj4588] [quote=RobynG]
My husband was a plaintiffs' personal injury lawyer. Paid a percentage if he won - nothing if he lost. So let's call a truce. As my husband likes to say - we're recovering lawyers . Robyn[/quote]Truce called. My point was to simply bring out the fact that our profession does not garner the respect from the public - or even those in the industry - as the legal profession.
But the fact is that there are many of us that take what we do very seriously. We work hard, we put the clients before ourselves, we study and read incessantly, and no matter how good we are, uncontrollable events can dictate our success.
In no way would your profession ever have to compete with the equivalent of a baby placing stock trades on his blackberry!
[/quote] I always thought lawyers were in the most hated profession ("what do you call 500 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean - a good start - etc."). But maybe we're talking about a tie. BTW - there are FAs at places like E*Trade and Fidelity (some specializing in bonds) who work somewhat the same way that FAs at "full service" firms do. And I do think there's a place for good full service FAs in today's world (I've seen a lot of people my father's age who were handling their own money lose a ton in the last year). One problem with being a FA is that people expect you to know too much. You can't be a stock specialist - a bond specialist - a REIT specialist - and understand everything about the latest "fad du jour" (whether it's gold - oil or copper) too. (Some clients also expect FAs to understand everything about tax and estate planning - they want to save money on accounting and legal fees.) At least I know I couldn't do all of those things - even if I spent 20 hours a day trying to do it. It would be like my trying to be your only lawyer for everything - and your asking me to handle your will - your divorce - your slip and fall case - and your IPO. So you are somewhat beholden to the specialists in your firms - the analysts. Some may be terrific - and some may be terrible. I remember my SB FA being very upset that the SB dot.com analyst (forget his name) led him and his clients right over the cliff at the end of the dot.com boom. Robyn
Hey Robin-
Is there a forum for attorneys that I can access every five seconds because I am bored at being a financial advisor?
Please get a life and leave us alone…
After 28 years in the biz, and therefore a hefty amount of cynicism, I have a feeling that we are being “played” Big, Big Time by one poster…
After 28 years in the biz, and therefore a hefty amount of cynicism, I have a feeling that we are being “played” Big, Big Time by one poster…
Funny, after reading the first post I was picturing putsy somehow "enjoying" himself playing the part of a woman online. Yes, it is a scary mental image...
I did a little research and can assure you that Robyn's who she says she is. I've enjoyed reading her posts and gaining some perspective from an extremely bright and well-educated investor.
I'd love to work with her. She'd be challenging, and I'd probably learn a good deal from her.There are. I don't frequent them - or have the names off the top of my head - but if you'd like me to find them for you - I will. If I recall correctly - a lot of the lawyers even give general legal advice and try to point people in the right direction. FWIW - I do have a life. Played a nice round of golf this afternoon. I just happen to be a fast typer. And I'll note that the software on this chat board is among the best I've seen in recent years (speedy and easy to use). RobynHey Robin-
Is there a forum for attorneys that I can access every five seconds because I am bored at being a financial advisor?
Please get a life and leave us alone…
[quote=Borker Boy]
I did a little research and can assure you that Robyn's who she says she is. I've enjoyed reading her posts and gaining some perspective from an extremely bright and well-educated investor.
I'd love to work with her. She'd be challenging, and I'd probably learn a good deal from her.[/quote] I have never misrepresented myself on line - on any chat board. Always go by the name Robyn (my real name) - or RobynG (because my name is Robyn Greene) if Robyn is taken. Except on Chowhound - where both names were taken. I am a member of the Florida Bar (you can look me up). Most of my stuff on chat boards in recent years is on food and travel boards. And I am a 61 year old woman. The only time I ever got into trouble by not trying to hide my identity was maybe 8-9 years ago - when I posted a message on a yahoo finance chat board about a dot.com stock (happened to live near the CEO of the company and played tennis with his wife). The issue was whether the company was a big deal (and had sumptuous headquarters) - or whether it was - as I wrote - housed in what used to be a dentist's office in a strip shopping center near my house. I thought the representations about the company's physical situation were kind of bogus - and said so. And 2 days later - the wife comes to my house and threatens me with this - that and the other thing - including lawsuits up the kazoo. Needless to say - I told her to take a hike. Shortly thereafter - the stock imploded - and - if I recall correctly - her husband was fired from that company. And she never bothered me again. On a lighter note - I have met and dined with many people I have met on line on food and travel chat boards - both in the US and other countries (including Germany, France and Japan). And enjoyed almost all of those experiences. I look at chat boards as a way to meet people - broaden one's horizons - and learn things - not to post anonymous BS. Call me old fashioned if you want to. At least when I tell people who I really am - I don't have to worry about child molesters . I realize that some of you can't understand how someone works on the internet using one's real identity. Because you don't remember the "good old days" when the internet was a small town - a place where everyone knew everyone else. Heck - even Mark Cuban was on Compuserve in the early days - and Bill Gates and Warren Buffett still play bridge on the internet. And my best financial buddy is a fixed income manager I met perhaps 20 years ago on Compuserve. We still talk on the phone at least once a week. He knows a lot more than I do - but I - as a retail client and person who thinks about this stuff a lot - sometimes have something to offer. If only what I think the state of the Florida economy is - because - although he isn't in Florida - he has clients who have residence in Florida - and own Florida munis - and I - as a person in Florida - am in better touch with what is going on in Florida than he is. BTW - I live in Ponte Vedra Beach FL and have membership at the TPC Sawgrass. I am an avid if not especially competent golfer. If you ever get to this neck of the woods - and care to play golf - give a holler - and I will be glad to fill you in on the best ways to approach playing golf in this area. Most of you here are so young. Stop being so cynical (although it has been prudent to be cautious in markets in recent years). Robyn P.S. To the person who mentioned taking clients to baseball games (whose name isn't in my window now and I can't remember it - I am not much of a baseball fan. But we have a nice minor league team here with a spiffy new stadium. I do go to a few games a year - "business lunch special" - about $12 for a box seat - a hot dog - and a beer. Hard to beat that! And - considering my golf handicap - no sense taking me to Pebble Beach .Think of all of your 60 something year old clients. Any “Robyns” among them? Likely not…not a popular name in the late 1940s, when “Robyn” was born.
Just FYI, a quick search on Anywho.com show an R Green who resides on Fairway Oaks Court in Ponte Vedra Beach.
Robyn - You'll have to excuse our manners around here. We've been burned one too many times by folks who sound like you that aren't who they say they are. Gets us all wound up and defensive. It was me that mentioned baseball. We have a minor league team in the area too and all of the STL area FAs do an event there every summer. Costs me $8 a ticket. Clients get seats, special ball cap (with our corporate name stiched onto the back), and $4 bucks per ticket to spend in at the stadium that night. Very low key, but a lot of fun. You and I sound like we play a similar game of golf. Although you get to play a lot more than I do. Winters in STL don't lend themselves to spending time on the course. Good luck with getting whatever answer you were originally looking for.Spiff-
Offer Robyn touchdown bonds and American Funds...Ooh don't forget to provide advisory as an option. Robyn- Since you have no problem telling us where you live and who you are, please send Spiff a copy of all your statements and assets with account numbers and don't forget a picture of your drivers license, SSN and birthdate. He'll take care of the rest...and by the way you would probably be his biggest client...until you fired him, filed a grievance for unsuitable investments, and taken EDJ to court (your playground until you found this forum). Maybe there is a forum for brain surgeons.[quote=Spaceman Spiff]Just FYI, a quick search on Anywho.com show an R Green who resides on Fairway Oaks Court in Ponte Vedra Beach.
Robyn - You'll have to excuse our manners around here. We've been burned one too many times by folks who sound like you that aren't who they say they are. Gets us all wound up and defensive. It was me that mentioned baseball. We have a minor league team in the area too and all of the STL area FAs do an event there every summer. Costs me $8 a ticket. Clients get seats, special ball cap (with our corporate name stiched onto the back), and $4 bucks per ticket to spend in at the stadium that night. Very low key, but a lot of fun. You and I sound like we play a similar game of golf. Although you get to play a lot more than I do. Winters in STL don't lend themselves to spending time on the course. Good luck with getting whatever answer you were originally looking for. [/quote] I'm not that R. Green (I'm Greene) - although I live in that community. Those houses on Fairway Oaks Court are a lot bigger than mine! I can understand being wound up and defensive. This has been a very trying time for anyone involved in the financial markets. Minor league baseball *is* a lot of fun. Unfortunately - if guys on your team are doing great - they tend to get called up to the majors in the middle of the season. I did actually wind up getting some good information - some in public - some in private - not only about MS/SB - but other firms as well. Will give me something to think about in the next month or so. Thanks to the people who gave me the information. RobynOh, well that changes everything. Anywho didn't find you, so obviously you are a fake.
Robyn:
Any woman who enjoys minor league baseball cannot be that bad. From a broker who 8 year old siamese cat is named Albert Pujols. IndyEDJ[quote=footsoldier]Spiff-
Offer Robyn touchdown bonds and American Funds...Ooh don't forget to provide advisory as an option. Robyn- Since you have no problem telling us where you live and who you are, please send Spiff a copy of all your statements and assets with account numbers and don't forget a picture of your drivers license, SSN and birthdate. He'll take care of the rest...and by the way you would probably be his biggest client...until you fired him, filed a grievance for unsuitable investments, and taken EDJ to court (your playground until you found this forum). Maybe there is a forum for brain surgeons.[/quote] Hey, what's with the personal attacks!? You can attack EDJ all you want, but attacking me is just rude. You have no idea who my clients are and what kind of money they have. You also have no idea what I sell. I thought you were better than that. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and figure you were just having a rough day and decided to take it out on me.[quote=footsoldier] Spiff-
Offer Robyn touchdown bonds and American Funds…Ooh don’t forget to provide advisory as an option.
DIV][/quote]
Touchdown bonds? I’m coming up on a decade with EDJ and TD bonds were gone well before I got here. Heck, it’s getting harder and harder to find Field Goal bonds or even PAT CD’s let alone a touchdown bond.
[quote=Incredible Hulk] [quote=footsoldier] Spiff-
Offer Robyn touchdown bonds and American Funds...Ooh don't forget to provide advisory as an option.
DIV][/quote]
Touchdown bonds? I'm coming up on a decade with EDJ and TD bonds were gone well before I got here. Heck, it's getting harder and harder to find Field Goal bonds or even PAT CD's let alone a touchdown bond.[/quote] Amen to that.
Robyn! Busted! We hardly knew ye!
Hey, what’s with the personal attacks!? You can attack EDJ all you want, but attacking me is just rude. You have no idea who my clients are and what kind of money they have. You also have no idea what I sell. I thought you were better than that. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and figure you were just having a rough day and decided to take it out on me.
Spiff- Sorry about the tone...it was intended for your prospect, Robyn. I can come across grouchy...have you tried the new annuity order entry system yet at LPL? That would make anyone day rough. But at least it was for an order...finally. I'll take 11K gross a day. It's been awhile. No personal attack intended. I am gonna find me a little Bulleit and take off the rest of the afternoon. Great whisky...I’ll take a shot of that…the last 3 weeks have been a blur…good for the bank acct but makes me very grouchy. I wait until compliance sends me a notification that I need to put my annuity orders in the system. Takes usually 6weeks for them to catch up with me…
Hey Robin, I googled your name and found a satelite picture of your house…not bad. Question…any gators coming up the canal??
OK - I had to look up “touchdown bonds” - figured out what FG bonds are - but what is a PAT CD?
BTW - there are lots of FG bonds around. Just take a look at investinginbonds.com. Where you can get same day slightly time delayed prices these days (as well as the nature of the trade - client buy/client sell/broker to broker/etc.). And it is curious that some clients buying round lots of 100 bonds (or more) sometimes pay a fair amount more than the client who is buying 5 bonds (on the same day). Note that this is in the muni market (I haven't shopped in the individual bond corporate market for a long time - although similar price data on corporates is available). I haven't seen a list of stock commissions at a full service firm in years. What - for example - would a commission be on a $25,000 stock trade (say 500 shares of a $50 stock). For a plain client who has maybe $500k and doesn't trade actively. I'm curious how the stock commission compares with bond markups. Whether the percentages are comparable. BTW - I think a "wrap fee" which covers commissions can be a reasonable option for a client who trades pretty actively and wants to work with a full service FA/portfolio manager. Ditto in the bond area - even if the portfolio isn't traded actively (most bond portfolios aren't traded actively). Although 2-3%/year is much too much for bonds (I only know a few bond portfolio managers - they charge about 50 bp for their smaller portfolios - and less for their larger portfolios). My husband really doesn't know much about investing - and - if something happens to me - I have recommended that he use a fixed income manager (and pay management fees) for at least part of his portfolio. RobynA few gators (lots of other wildlife too). Funny story about a gator. We had a new neighbor move in - from a condo in Chicago. A couple of days later - she calls us - hysterical. There's a gator in her pool - a pretty big one - and she wants us to come over and help her get the gator out of the pool. Guess there are some things you don't know if you've lived your whole life in a Chicago condo . We like our house. Built it 12 years ago as a "retirement house" - for us and the way we live. We designed it so we could "age in place" for as long as possible. First house we ever had. Before then - we lived in not so big high-rise condos in Miami - Miami had and still does have a lot more crime than we have up here - houses tend to get burglarized. It's really nice being able to play music as loud as we want - having lots of closet space - cooking outside on a grill - etc. Not so nice worrying about whether a tree will fall on our roof during a hurricane. OTOH - with the state of the windstorm insurance market in Florida these days (absolute mess) - I'm glad I only have to worry about our one house - and not 500 neighbors in a condo. P.S. The best part is having a real laundry room - not a washer/dryer combo in a closet off the dining room. RobynHey Robin, I googled your name and found a satelite picture of your house…not bad. Question…any gators coming up the canal??
Stock trade commission would be in the 1-2% range, closer to 1% with a good client discount.
So, what DO you do with a gator in the pool - is removal a do it yourself project? I had to help a hummingbird out of my garage (held it in my hand), but, I mean, aren't those little gators kind of toothy?
We have trappers you can call here in SW FL. They make a living doing it.
[quote=Mishigun]
So, what DO you do with a gator in the pool - is removal a do it yourself project? I had to help a hummingbird out of my garage (held it in my hand), but, I mean, aren't those little gators kind of toothy?
[/quote] It's about as much a DIY project as removing your own appendix . You call the "critter gitter". And I'm sure they hope the thing is gone by the time they get to your house - although gators tend to be stationary for long periods of time (in the sun when they want to warm up - in the water when they want to cool down). BTW - good work with the hummingbird (ours made their first appearance about 3-4 weeks ago). We are always relocating animals that wind up "dislocated" (even spiders and lizards we find in the house). RobynA PAT CD is a CD with a 1% commission. PAT stands for point-after try.
Spiff-
No disrepect...Robyn is checking you out. Finding out about TD bonds (go long) is the start of a great/terrible relationship. Where is the Bulleit?[quote=Borker Boy]A PAT CD is a CD with a 1% commission. PAT stands for point-after try.[/quote]
“PAT” is a “Point After Touchdown”. Nice try, though.
Well that makes the bond commissions/markups look ok. I buy mostly longer term bonds - and hold until call or maturity (or a credit problem freaks me out). FWIW - I never minded paying a point or so - but forget about 3 points. Note that I am finding my own bonds on BondDesk - and asking a particular broker whether he can get them for me - and at what price. Two 2 minute phone calls. Selling is a different issue. I only sell due to credit quality concerns. I sold Nationsbank bonds earlier this year (bonds I had bought a really long time ago) and think I got screwed to the tune of about 3+ points. But I sold near par - and after troughing in the high 60's - the bonds are trading at 80 give or take. I've always known that many bonds are more or less a "roach motel" - so it's important to be comfortable with credit quality. Still - it was impossible to predict 10+ years ago what the situation with Nationsbank/BAC would be today. I can buy directly from BondDesk through E*Trade/Fidelity/Zionsdirect - at lower markups (although E*Trade sometimes throws in some curve balls - have to keep your eye on its prices) - but if I am full or near full in those firms in terms of SIPC coverage - I go to another (usually "full service" firm - and some of those are sometimes "full" in terms of SIPC coverage too). I would rather pay a little more than have all my eggs in a couple of baskets. I know some of you here think that's paranoid - but we use the income from those bonds to pay our bills. Frozen account (for whatever reason) = no money to pay bills. Some planners are now recommending keeping 3-5 years in living expenses in cash to avoid that problem - that's idiotic IMO (I am used to keeping about 6 months in cash - if that). I'd rather spread the money around - and not make 0% on a bunch of it (O% is about what cash is yielding today except in some high yield savings accounts - and "high yield" is 2% give or take). RobynStock trade commission would be in the 1-2% range, closer to 1% with a good client discount.
And what do you call a bond where a college football team goes for two points and makes it ? Robyn (GO GATORS)[quote=Borker Boy]A PAT CD is a CD with a 1% commission. PAT stands for point-after try.[/quote]
“PAT” is a “Point After Touchdown”. Nice try, though.
And what do you call a bond where a college football team goes for two points and makes it ? Robyn (GO GATORS)[/quote][quote=YHWY] [quote=Borker Boy]A PAT CD is a CD with a 1% commission. PAT stands for point-after try.[/quote]
“PAT” is a “Point After Touchdown”. Nice try, though.
That's a "Find-It-Yourself-On-E-Trade-Because-You're-A-Brilliant-Investor Bond". Go Badgers!
The only thing most of us guys here in Florida have in common with Wisconsin is you sent us Donna Shalala (to UM). I don't think any of our teams play Wisconsin (maybe once in a blue moon?) - and I'm pretty sure you're not part of the conferences that play in the Gator Bowl up here in Jacksonville (although you might wind up in the Orange Bowl if you're in the "final two" when the national championship is in Miami). Did UW recruit as many players with criminal tendencies as UM has under her tenure? FWIW - the south is really big deal in terms of college (and even high school) football. The Florida Georgia game sells more tickets than any Jaguars game ever could. It's not like I'm a huge knowledgeable fan. You just can't go to any c***tail party here and be part of a conversation unless you know something about college football. And since my home town is Tim Tebow's home town - well you have to know everything about him too - even though a 60+ year old Jewish broad with little or no athletic ability like me has nothing in common with a 20-something year old Christian missionary type of guy with amazing athletic ability like him. But I do have a personal contact in Madison. One of my cousins is a big deal doctor at UW. Here he is: http://findadoctor.uwhealth.org/findadoctor/Provider.action?_sourcePage=%2Fresults.jsp&id=6172. I'm sure he knows everything about medical services there these days (he's been in Madison for probably 25+ years now). So if you ever have a medical problem - and want to use UW - give a holler and I'll put you in touch with him. It is probably more useful to know great doctors than great football players . RobynThat’s a “Find-It-Yourself-On-E-Trade-Because-You’re-A-Brilliant-Investor Bond”. Go Badgers!
P.S. Funny software - with all those ***'s in the type of party I described. Guess it can’t differentiate between sex and a martini. Robyn
robyn-
Find a forum for wannabe lawyers who double as know-it-alls. This is a fourm for financial advisors. Get your securites license or go away... enough is enough. My limit is reached when you are sending us links to your cousin the doctor. Have you heard about facebook or myspace. They are social networks...this isn't.Actually, according to Wikipedia, we're both correct. In American and Canadian football, the convert, conversion, try, extra point, point after touchdown, point-after try or PAT is the act of lining up to attempt a one-point conversion, immediately following a touchdown.[quote=Borker Boy]A PAT CD is a CD with a 1% commission. PAT stands for point-after try.[/quote]
“PAT” is a “Point After Touchdown”. Nice try, though.
Not sure why no one has mentioned it - but anyone can call his desk and find out if a bond is offerred and at what price. Some firms have a “desk” acting as a profit center, some have desks which act as service areas. Those of us who do any muno business usually know a guy or lady by name on the desk who we can call and quickly enquire as to the temp du jour. If we call with a specific request, they will find it or the next best thing and tell us what makes it skinnier than what we asked for and why. It was that way 50 years ago and is the same today.
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