Left EDJ..expect the 2 certified letters!

Take a copy of your contract and go see an attorney before leaving.

I have done that. If I get fired, then I owe nothing. But if I quit, then they will send me a bill, and if negotiations are not met, it can goto arbitration.  I would just like to have some input of those who went through the process.

Search some old threads and you'll find some good info. 

I'm in the same spot you are at the moment. 

Summary of what I've gathered.

They WILL come after the money. 

Can take over a year to finish negotiating back and forth. 

Typical settlement for the training fees seems to be between 20-50% of the face value.  Tell them you are broke from starting your business and start very low in what you say you'll pay.

Non solict seems to be similar to other places.  Just be careful how you approach your clients and you should be ok.  I haven't heard of many instances where they were very aggressive on this.

PM me if you have specific questions.  (Remember I'm still in your shoes and am just relaying what I've gathered from other brokers leaving.  Including many on this board.

so at jones are you free and clear after 3 yrs from CSD?

[quote=Broker7]

I have done that. If I get fired, then I owe nothing. But if I quit, then they will send me a bill, and if negotiations are not met, it can goto arbitration.  I would just like to have some input of those who went through the process.

[/quote]

Not necessarily, the primary give away is if you go after your old clients.  They will not send you an automatic bill.

It costs $75,000 to teach someone how to knock on a door?

Congrats on leaving and best of luck.

Vbrainy, No its about the hamburger close, the "We only have 150k left in inventory and its going quick, lets place the order now before you lose this 4.2% 38 year tax free".  50k or 75k to get you started?

The true cost of this valuable training..priceless!!!!  The more I detox from EDWARDO JONESY, the more I get flush with anger.  How stupid they made me look in my community!!  I will do everything in my power to educate clients on the workings of EDJ, and educate the few who are left at my old firm about the better side of the business.

Ilovedogs said: "Not necessarily, the primary give away is if you go after your old clients.  They will not send you an automatic bill."

If you stay in the industry and hang your "7" at another firm, it is an automatic bill regardless of whether you go after your old clients or not.

          "If you stay in the industry and hang your "7" at another firm, it is an automatic bill regardless of whether you go after your old clients or not."

This is true if you aren't through the third year.  If you're past your 36 month commitment, you should be okay 'hangin' your 7 elsewhere as long as you don't actively and openly solicit your old clients.

[quote=bspears]

Vbrainy, No its about the hamburger close, the "We only have 150k left in inventory and its going quick, lets place the order now before you lose this 4.2% 38 year tax free".  50k or 75k to get you started?[/quote]

hahha...how true...

[quote=bailingonjones]

          “If you stay in the industry and hang your “7” at another firm, it is an automatic bill regardless of whether you go after your old clients or not.”

This is true if you aren't through the third year.  If you're past your 36 month commitment, you should be okay 'hangin' your 7 elsewhere as long as you don't actively and openly solicit your old clients.

[quote=bspears]

Vbrainy, No its about the hamburger close, the “We only have 150k left in inventory and its going quick, lets place the order now before you lose this 4.2% 38 year tax free”.  50k or 75k to get you started?

The true cost of this valuable training..priceless!!!!  The more I detox from EDWARDO JONESY, the more I get flush with anger.  How stupid they made me look in my community!!  I will do everything in my power to educate clients on the workings of EDJ, and educate the few who are left at my old firm about the better side of the business.

[quote=bspears]

Vbrainy, No its about the hamburger close, the "We only have 150k left in inventory and its going quick, lets place the order now before you lose this 4.2% 38 year tax free".  50k or 75k to get you started?

The true cost of this valuable training..priceless!!!!  The more I detox from EDWARDO JONESY, the more I get flush with anger.  How stupid they made me look in my community!!  I will do everything in my power to educate clients on the workings of EDJ, and educate the few who are left at my old firm about the better side of the business.

[/quote]

I'm curious too.  Did EDJ make you look so stupid that you couldn't build a good business?  Couldn't bring in new clients?  Or was that just your distorted perception after spending so much time listening to the yahoo's on this forum? You couldn't have looked too stupid, otherwise they wouldn't have gone with you.  Did you really have people giving you unsolicited advice about leaving Jones?  The most I've ever heard is why do we have an office every 100 yards in this city.    

If you've moved your clients to your new firm, why would you need to educate them on the "workings of Jones"?  They followed you didn't they.  Do you think they really care about what happens at Jones now that they're gone?  You probably told them all kinds of things to get them to move with you (most of it probably partially true), so why rehash the past?

OK, I get it.  Really I do.  Jones sucks, GPs are thieves, revenue sharing stinks, poor technology, offices next to Dollar Tree instead of Starbucks, payout is better indy...blah, blah, blah.  ANYWHERE else is better than being a Jones broker.  The question is do your clients really care all that much and if you're no longer there why do you.  If you looked stupid before, do you still look stupid, or have you just changed the sign on your door?     

Holy cow!!  Spiffy, did your profit sharing not meet your approval this year?  Where do I begin?  I guess your right in paragraph 3.  Can’t add anymore to what you’ve wrote.  No I don’t look stupid now, I look more professional.  I just feel as if I’ve been taken advantage of.  I loved the call sessions held monthly…" okay we’ve got a 4.35% tax free in inventory right now…matures in 2040 and pays Jan and July.  Figure out what it takes to get your clients a 500 check in those months and SELL IT!!!  We’ll call for 45 minutes and then come together and see whol SOLD the most!  I’ve got a gift certificate on the best SALES PERSON!   Jones is a great SALES company,you know…AMWAY, KIRBY Vacs.  Sorry Spiffy, I just want more for my clients than being on a quarterly call list to buy something.  Everything in the Jones system is about SELLING something and a very limited SOMETHING.  Believe me I drunk my share of koolaid, made segment 3 in 11 months…and then one day I woke up!  Your absolutely right, JONES SUCKS!  And for the record, I have followed what LPL has advised me to…tombstone and wait for their calls or walk-ins.  And guess what, 76 transfers in the first 2 weeks.  If I don’t get 80% of the assets by year end I’ll be highly disappointed, Highly!   Of course this is free country and I can say JONES SUCKS as much as I want and to whomever will listen!

SS-

The tone dude. Way too amped. Relax, take a hit and enjoy the ride, remember its all about the journey.

We just CHOOSE to take a different path. And someday you too will follow. KUMBAHYAH my lord, kumbayah.

Oh yeah Ms. Spears.

I thought I would get 80%, now I think I am better off with 70% or less  and I just crossed 60% after 6 months.

Good luck and keep us informed.

JONES SUCKS!

[quote=bspears]

Jones is a great SALES company,,you know..AMWAY, KIRBY Vacs.  Sorry Spiffy, I just want more for my clients than being on a quarterly call list to buy something.  Everything in the Jones system is about SELLING something and a very limited SOMETHING.  

[/quote]

It's always been my understanding that this is a sales job--regardless of the firm you're with. Also, I definitely do more than put my clients on a "quarterly call list to buy something." 

What's the big difference between Jones and everyone else that's always being alluded to but never explained or expounded upon?

My perception over the years has been that Jones is different because their

mantra seems to be that they alone act in the customers’ best interest, and

that all others are merely sharks trying to fleece the public. This ‘holier than

thou’ attitude seems to rub other professionals the wrong way.



Just my $.02.

[quote=Philo Kvetch]My perception over the years has been that Jones is different because their
mantra seems to be that they alone act in the customers' best interest

[/quote]

There are several things about Jones that frustrate me on a daily basis; however, I remain extremely impressed with the firm's dedication to always doing what is right for the customer. It's not just a mantra, it's a philosophy.

[quote=Philo Kvetch]and that all others are merely sharks trying to fleece the public. This 'holier than thou' attitude seems to rub other professionals the wrong way.

Just my $.02.[/quote]

I've been in this business for a little more than a year, and being a former police officer, I only thought I'd seen my share of criminals. I hadn't even scratched the surface until I changed careers. I am amazed at what people in this business will do for a buck and how loosely regulated the independent firms are. It makes sense that the regulators prefer to go after the "big boys" who can actually pay the multi-million dollar fines they like to assess, but in just a year I've seen numerous indies in my community doing whatever the hell they want with no regard for the client's best interest. It's very disheartening to see senior citizens being 1035'd from annuity to annuity to annuity without having a clue as to what's going on in their account.

I'm convinced that a large number of folks who invest would be better off putting their money into an indexed fund with Vanguard or Fidelity just to keep their nest egg out of the hands of the ubiquitous crooks in this business.   

[quote=Borker Boy]

[quote=Philo Kvetch]My perception over the years has been that Jones is different because their
mantra seems to be that they alone act in the customers' best interest

[/quote]

There are several things about Jones that frustrate me on a daily basis; however, I remain extremely impressed with the firm's dedication to always doing what is right for the customer. It's not just a mantra, it's a philosophy.

[quote=Philo Kvetch]and that all others are merely sharks trying to fleece the public. This 'holier than thou' attitude seems to rub other professionals the wrong way.

Just my $.02.[/quote]

I've been in this business for a little more than a year, and being a former police officer, I only thought I'd seen my share of criminals. I hadn't even scratched the surface until I changed careers. I am amazed at what people in this business will do for a buck and how loosely regulated the independent firms are. It makes sense that the regulators prefer to go after the "big boys" who can actually pay the multi-million dollar fines they like to assess, but in just a year I've seen numerous indies in my community doing whatever the hell they want with no regard for the client's best interest. It's very disheartening to see senior citizens being 1035'd from annuity to annuity to annuity without having a clue as to what's going on in their account.

I'm convinced that a large number of folks who invest would be better off putting their money into an indexed fund with Vanguard or Fidelity just to keep their nest egg out of the hands of the ubiquitous crooks in this business.   

[/quote]

borker, after 1 year you simply don't know enough to say the word always.additionally, when their field supervision realizes that style boxes are indeed a valid way to categorize investments they may get closer to ALWAYS doing what is right. 

there are other things but I will leave it at that for now.

Borker,

     It sounds like you jumped from the frying pan into the fire.  Have you heard the one about The full page article Bachman and Doug Hill took out in the Wall Street Journal chastising the industry for not being fully open and honest with clients all the while fighting the regulators about revenue sharing disclosures.  How about when Jones wouldn't pay an IR a commission on selling a CD unless it generated a $50.00 gross, all the while saying it's what's best for the client yet enticing IRs to sell something else that would actually pay them a commission.  After just one year with Jones you're still seeing through the kool-aid colored glasses.  I, too, was this way after one year, but then you start seeing some of the things the vets are doing, like mixing stocks, bonds, and mutual funds in a portfolio so that commission can be generated on the whole pot of money when the client would have been better off in just mutual funds.

   Stick with Jones, and if you don't see things that upset you in the next few years, then stay with them.  If you do see these things, JUST REMEMBER--you heard it here first.

Borker, be careful about the using word always (especially careful underlining it).  While I would agree that Jones usually tries to do what is in the best interest of the client, it doesn't always happen. When I was with Jones, I had a son bring in his mom's Jones account. Her Jones broker has put about $180,000 into two B-share annuities at the same time (Hartford Director and Hartford Leader).  This was after the A-share was available. Why did he do that?  So he could put less than $100,000 into each annuity, and thus buy B-shares. Jones compliance somehow missed/allowed this to happen.

I asked a veteran in our region about it, and when I told him who the broker was, he said "oh that guy, yeah, I'm not surprised at all." So this wasn't the first thing like this he had done.  MOST B/Ds (wirehouse, regional, Indy) are setup to do what is right for the client. This sometimes falls apart at the broker level, REGARDLESS of the firm (yes, sometimes even Jones).

[quote=now_indy]

I asked a veteran in our region about it, and when I told him who the broker was, he said "oh that guy, yeah, I'm not surprised at all." So this wasn't the first thing like this he had done.  MOST B/Ds (wirehouse, regional, Indy) are setup to do what is right for the client. This sometimes falls apart at the broker level, REGARDLESS of the firm (yes, sometimes even Jones).

[/quote]

Q - Why aren't RLs registered as Series9/10?

A - Then they'd be mandated to investigate or refer such actions to Compliance for additional investigation.     

Can you say ooopsie?    

[quote=footsoldier]

SS-

The tone dude. Way too amped. Relax, take a hit and enjoy the ride, remember its all about the journey.

We just CHOOSE to take a different path. And someday you too will follow. KUMBAHYAH my lord, kumbayah.

[/quote]

If you read my posts you'll realize that I'm not bashing the path that those of you who have left Jones have taken.  You found that you weren't happy, left, and are happy now.  Congrats. 

My statement to bspears came more from the fact that the people on this forum who have left Jones can't seem to really LEAVE Jones.  I've never seen a group of people more obsessed with something than these.  Daily, they get on this forum looking for an opportunity to bash Jones, a company they no longer work for, have no vested interest in any longer, and who they get no futher benefit from (other than the occasional ACAT).  It's like keeping a picture of your ex-wife in your wallet, just to remind  you how bad your marriage really was.  Get rid of the picture, move on.  I really don't get it.

Also, the things that you folks keep bringing up like revenue sharing and the WSJ article (that was incredibly stupid), are old news.  Three years ago.  If you haven't been around Jones since then, you have no real right to bash the company now.  It really has changed a lot as far as the long term focus of where we're trying to go.  I think you'll look up a few years from now and see that Jones can compete with any of the wirehouses and indy firms out there.  I think we're really close right now.  That's my opinion.  You have a right to yours. 

[quote=Spaceman Spiff

My statement to bspears came more from the fact that the people on this forum who have left Jones can't seem to really LEAVE Jones.  I've never seen a group of people more obsessed with something than these.  Daily, they get on this forum looking for an opportunity to bash Jones, a company they no longer work for, have no vested interest in any longer, and who they get no futher benefit from (other than the occasional ACAT).  It's like keeping a picture of your ex-wife in your wallet, just to remind  you how bad your marriage really was.  Get rid of the picture, move on.  I really don't get it.

Also, the things that you folks keep bringing up like revenue sharing and the WSJ article (that was incredibly stupid), are old news.  Three years ago.  If you haven't been around Jones since then, you have no real right to bash the company now.  It really has changed a lot as far as the long term focus of where we're trying to go.  I think you'll look up a few years from now and see that Jones can compete with any of the wirehouses and indy firms out there.  I think we're really close right now.  That's my opinion.  You have a right to yours. 

[/quote]

Spiff,

I've said it before and I'll say it again, leaving your firm for some is like a nasty divorce. 

One side goes into the relationship naive, trusting and believing "everything" what the experienced one says.  Over time the naive person starts to grow up and for some reason the truth doesn't seem that believable anymore.

Once the "divorce" occurs, the originally naive ex-spouse feels like telling the entire word what a louse the other side was. Occassionally there is a repetition of the stories.  To add insult to injury the louse will state that the naive spouse left for apparent "wrong doing" when it never occured.

[quote=Borker Boy]

[quote=bspears]

Jones is a great SALES company,,you know..AMWAY, KIRBY Vacs.  Sorry Spiffy, I just want more for my clients than being on a quarterly call list to buy something.  Everything in the Jones system is about SELLING something and a very limited SOMETHING.  

[/quote]

It's always been my understanding that this is a sales job--regardless of the firm you're with. Also, I definitely do more than put my clients on a "quarterly call list to buy something." 

What's the big difference between Jones and everyone else that's always being alluded to but never explained or expounded upon?

[/quote]

Quite true. This is a sales job. You have to sell yourself, your skills, your knowledge and get the client to invest or at least follow the plan you have presented.

The big difference is that Jones starts with a product (a bond or a stock) and forces the clients to fit into the sale. Calling everyone to offer a 30 year bond or WCOM is not financial planning or financial advising.  It is product pushing. Speaking for myself, I start with the client and find the products to fit the individual situation. 

Possibly some individuals like yourself find the product to fit each client's needs, but by and large the mantra of the company is to pound the phones to sell the bond d'jour or other targeted product.

Because there is a quota system at Jones, unlike at an independent shop like mine, it lends itself to pushing product for a quick return to keep St Louis and your RL happy.  I'm not saying I don't have a need for income. Of course I do.  But I am free to decide how much I need for myself and if I have a down month, previous months that have been banked will suppliment my cash flow needs.  At Jones if you don't produce the quota....well you know.

[quote=Borker Boy]I am amazed at what people in this business will do for a buck and how loosely regulated the independent firms are. [/quote]

Before you get too high on your EDJ horse, don't assume for a minute that independents, as a whole, are loosely regulated.  That sounds like something right out of the mouth of a GP.  Consider these...

I'm amazed at how a local EDJ rep flogged a penny stock to half the town...a stock EDJ wouldn't even allow him to sell...only to see numerous people who believed in this vet lose thousands as the stock went from 14 cents a share when I first heard on him flogging it in August of '05...to it's current level of one-tenth of one penny.

I'm amazed at another EDJ veteran who called us impersonating a client only to be confronted by my assistant who knew the client well.

I'm amazed at the EDJ vet who charged his (now former) client 5 3/4 points for a bond.  How on earth this industry ever justified margins like this on bonds in beyond me.

So you see, shysters are everywhere and the vets I referenced are all over ten years in the business, so they certainly know better.  Don't believe for a minute that your firm has any better handle on compliance than your indy, bank and wirehouse competiors.  From what I observe from some (and I stress some) Jones reps, if a shyster wants to skirt compliance, there are plenty of opportunities at just about any firm, including Jones.

Trust me, the longer you're in the business, the more of this crap you'll see, and yes, if you see much of your fellow Jones reps' work, you'll see some of the same stuff.  The wheels of justice may be slow, but if you keep your own nose clean and stay in this business long enough, eventually, you'll see justice prevail with at least most of these guys, even if it's only the investing public getting wise to their games and shunning them.

[quote=babbling looney]

The big difference is that Jones starts with a product (a bond or a stock) and forces the clients to fit into the sale. Calling everyone to offer a 30 year bond or WCOM is not financial planning or financial advising.  It is product pushing. Speaking for myself, I start with the client and find the products to fit the individual situation. 

Possibly some individuals like yourself find the product to fit each client's needs, but by and large the mantra of the company is to pound the phones to sell the bond d'jour or other targeted product.

[/quote]

Your name reveals a lot...and it's obvious you're speaking out of turn when it comes to your assessment of Jones.

Let me educate you. Phone sessions have very little to do with selling, and a whole lot to do with advertising and finding out what it is the client is interested in, i.e. "finding the products to fit the individual." (As you so eloquently put it.)

We just go about the process a different way than others, but we difinitely work diligently to make sure our clients are putting their money in investments that are suitable for them.

Let me educate you. Phone sessions have very little to do with selling, and a whole lot to do with advertising and finding out what it is the client is interested in, i.e. "finding the products to fit the individual." (As you so eloquently put it.)

Um.  Yeah.  You just keep telling yourself that Borker.  I've been in this business probably three times as long as you have been out of high school and spent 5 years at Jones.  I think my assessment of the Jones philosophy is spot on.  Sell a product and THEN think about the client. 

I know that what you just parroted is what they have drilled into your head but it is pure BS to think that by cold calling someone and offering them an investment that you have no idea if it is appropriate or not, you are somehow building a deep relationship. You might, mabye, possibly be putting your name and the Jones name in their minds so I suppose you can stretch and call it advertising.

We just go about the process a different way than others, but we difinitely work diligently to make sure our clients are putting their money in investments that are suitable for them

So when you call someone you met once on their doorstep and pressure them on the phone to buy Home Depot stock or that 30 year 5.5% bond you are diligently putting them in the right investment.  How the hell do you know it is right? Do you have any real information about them? What are their other holding, their goals, their net worth, their debt service and liquidity needs, estate planning issues and so on?  

You know know that you are going to make that sale during the calling session so you can get a cookie from the RL or the team leader, aren't you?  Whether you are sure it is exactly what the client needs or not, you are going to sell them the product.

As I said, some of the established vet Jones brokers think of the customer first product second, but believe me that isn't the new guys.  You are too busy trying to make your nut every month.

babs- i also loved the “if the worst thing i sell you is a 5% bond, we’re probably doing alright.”

Borker,

If you want to remain loyal to EDJ, you should refrain from reading and participating in this forum. If the koolaid is good, none of us would like for you to be blinded by the reality of what Jones is.

The jones system does work, and for the one year you've been in the business, you have been meeting expectations.  It is easy for a person to make a reasonable living with Edj, but if you think outside the box and would like to be more than an employed salesman, this is a good forum to educate you on looking elsewhere. Good Luck

Babs,

    I couldn't agree with you more.  For the new guys it is all about the product and all about the sale.  When I was at Eval Grad, hoping for that all important first sale so I could be the hero for having the first sale of the week, I sold an out of state tax-free bond to someone I'd never met before, because that was the flavor of the day.  I spent two years getting to know this person and trying to get him out of the bond without losing money.  Thankfully interest rates cooperated and we were able to get all of his money back and into an appropriate investment.

   The trainers in St Louis could have cared less that I sold without "Knowing my Customer".   Sell, Sell, Sell and if you have time figure out what the customer needs.

[quote=Borker Boy]

Let me educate you.

Borker boy, Are you serious on the phone session comments you made?  The phones session are meant to get on the damn phone and sell something!!!  Here, lets listen to this vet and see how he sells the wcom stock to a client.   Okay, Sam give me your best bond presentation to the newbies here today.  Right the script and follow it!  Your nuts!!  JONES SUCKS!!!

You guys (and ladies) have been beating up on Borker Boy for a little while now.  I understand why because I've read the post.  I think he gets it.

So, he's new in the biz, no prospects, no advertising budget, no referral base, no client base to build off of.  Instead of bashing the Jones call sessions (which I hate) why don't you give him some ideas about how to build the biz without the call session mentality in his office everyday.  Explain to him how he should go from Knock, Knock Edward Jones to let me review your financial and estate plan.  That's a big jump.  Do you think it's possible that if he has a good blue chip stock or muni to talk about that he can get some conversations started that he otherwise wouldn't have been able to?  Yeah, he's going to sell one once in a while that might not be the best fit, but probably not that often. 

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]

You guys (and ladies) have been beating up on Borker Boy for a little while now.  I understand why because I’ve read the post.  I think he gets it.

So, he's new in the biz, no prospects, no advertising budget, no referral base, no client base to build off of.  Instead of bashing the Jones call sessions (which I hate) why don't you give him some ideas about how to build the biz without the call session mentality in his office everyday.  Explain to him how he should go from Knock, Knock Edward Jones to let me review your financial and estate plan.  That's a big jump.  Do you think it's possible that if he has a good blue chip stock or muni to talk about that he can get some conversations started that he otherwise wouldn't have been able to?  Yeah, he's going to sell one once in a while that might not be the best fit, but probably not that often. 

Every call session I went through had contests on how many times did you 1. ask for the order 2. ask for referrals 3. ask for money dues and MOST IMPORTANTLY 4. how many orders did you place on the focus investment sent down from the seg 1&2 training corp.  The gifts were usually dinner for two (great for seg 1 & 2 as there is no way they can afford to take their spouse out for a night on the town) and it prompted people to make sure they one at least one of the 4 categories.  This might not have been every region but I know the neighboring regions did the same type of contest.  It was also the focus of the Tues and Thurs call sessions and Shamrock Sat and Barbeque your prospect Sat.

I would bet that I sold something to someone that they should not have owned IE the 5 1/8 GE bond due in 2029 that I sold in 2003 - now priced at 88.725 - I guess my Seg 1 Trainer was right my 80 year old clients can still benefit from a 25 year bond when rates are at their low

Borker Boy,

As Broker7 suggested...do yourself a favor and GET OFF THIS FORUM!  You are not ready for this.  You need to spend the next 2 years drinking the kool-aid and doing what ever EJ tells you.  The only thing I suggest is that you focus on selling yourself and your values rather than JONES.  Your clients need to know from the beginning that YOU are the guy with the recommendations and not JONES.  This approach will make it easier for you to move your clients later...and you will move your clients if you remain in the biz.

Jones is a good place to start but once your contract is up...come back here for the real story.  All this forum will do for you now is create doubt...and you don't need that at this stage of your career.

You're a rookie...don't lecture the rest of us...YET!  I was with Jones from 1998 to 2003...RJ since then...just so you know...Now delete this site from your favorites until 2009.

I forgot about Shamrock and BBQ Saturdays

My BOA always rolled her eyes at those flyers, I just threw them in the trash.

I loved those boiler room type contests!!!  I loved the fireside chats from Doug Hill!!  As a matter of fact, if the weather clears I’m going door to door today with the income foundation from American and see if I can’t sniff out some cd’s coming due. Borker boy, you should be doing the same or your arse will be in hot water!!!  You never know, I could be the person on the other side of the street hitting those houses too  Wouldn’t it suck if we had a national lets go doorknocking day…and every investment/insurance related person hit the payment.  Wouldn’t that just be freakin hilarious…sprinting to the doors to see who could be first, beating the crap out of each other in the driveways…pandomonium (sp?)  All in respect for EDJ’s and the GP’s…NATIONAL DOORKNOCKING DAY…APRIL 1st…lets do it!!!

I forgot…JONES SUCKS

[quote=now_indy]

I forgot about Shamrock and BBQ Saturdays

My BOA always rolled her eyes at those flyers, I just threw them in the trash.

[/quote]

Not to mention the RL calling you on Monday or Tuesday to ask if you are going to work (hint hint). Then telling you to sand bag a few mutual fund orders so you can put in a trade that day and win the American Express gift card or crystal ball the Government Bond dept. was giving out that day. Market timing???

Sand Bag a few mutual fund orders for a few days to win some silly prize on Saturday morning.  Now that is definitely in the best interest of the client!  Hopefully the client doesn’t question why the trade was not placed in a timely manner.

[quote=babbling looney]

As I said, some of the established vet Jones brokers think of the

customer first product second, but believe me that isn’t the new guys.

You are too busy trying to make your nut every month.

  I always do what is in my clients best interests.  I’m starving too death as a result.  But I do it anyway.  I don’t sell annuities, life insurance, or disability insurance.  I’ve 1035 a few, but they were already burned.  I sell stocks, bonds, and mutual funds.  However, there is one truth in my region: the big producers are insurance sellers.  Whenever you get close to one, they are expounding about the high-commission insurance deal they just screwed someone with, how easy it was, and asking me why I haven’t come to the dark side of boogey man sales tactics.  Well, I just don’t want to be that guy in my community.  If they truly did have a need for an annuity, I would sell one, or life insurance, ok i’d screw them w/ their permission on that too, but I don’t solicit that crap.  I don’t want to own it, and I don’t think my clients should either. 

[quote=EdJehovah]  I always do what is in my clients best interests.  I'm starving too death as a result.  But I do it anyway.  I don't sell annuities, life insurance, or disability insurance.  I've 1035 a few, but they were already burned.  I sell stocks, bonds, and mutual funds.  However, there is one truth in my region: the big producers are insurance sellers.  Whenever you get close to one, they are expounding about the high-commission insurance deal they just screwed someone with, how easy it was, and asking me why I haven't come to the dark side of boogey man sales tactics.  Well, I just don't want to be that guy in my community.  If they truly did have a need for an annuity, I would sell one, or life insurance, ok i'd screw them w/ their permission on that too, but I don't solicit that crap.  I don't want to own it, and I don't think my clients should either.  [/quote]

Best interests?  My eye!

If you don't consider life insurance for certain clients, particulary young couples with income protection needs and elderly clients with estate planning needs you have a major problem in your practice.  More importantly your clients have a major problem in the advice they are getting.

[quote=EdJehovah]  I always do what is in my clients best
interests.  I’m starving too death as a result.  But I do it
anyway.  I don’t sell annuities, life insurance, or disability
insurance.  I’ve 1035 a few, but they were already burned.  I
sell stocks, bonds, and mutual funds.  However, there is one truth
in my region: the big producers are insurance sellers.  
[/quote]



Listen, here’s the deal.



While it is harder to sell life insurance, people need it, and you of
all people should sell it. By what reason should the Metlife agent get
business you could be having?



Here’s what I would do. Call up mainstay funds (NYLIM’s outfit) and get
their lifefolio system. Start working over your existing book with a
plan. Help them collect all their financial documents and sort them out
into the folders.



If you see people who are underinsured, make a note of it. Do a
beneficiary review. Educate yourself on SPIA’s, which are a good thing
for people in the retirement red zone.



If you play it right, you can sell alot of SPIA’s to people who are +/-
5years of retirement, and position them as a way to lock in gains on
long term investments for life.

[quote=EdJehovah]  I always do what is in my clients best interests.  I'm starving too death as a result.  But I do it anyway.  I don't sell annuities, life insurance, or disability insurance.  I've 1035 a few, but they were already burned.  I sell stocks, bonds, and mutual funds.  However, there is one truth in my region: the big producers are insurance sellers.  Whenever you get close to one, they are expounding about the high-commission insurance deal they just screwed someone with, how easy it was, and asking me why I haven't come to the dark side of boogey man sales tactics.  Well, I just don't want to be that guy in my community.  If they truly did have a need for an annuity, I would sell one, or life insurance, ok i'd screw them w/ their permission on that too, but I don't solicit that crap.  I don't want to own it, and I don't think my clients should either.  [/quote]

You don't get it do you?  If you only sell stocks, bonds, and mutual funds, you will never be anything more than a salesman/product pusher to your customers.  Notice I said customers, not clients.  While not everyone needs any annuity, there are more good reasons to own annuities today than there was 10 years ago.  Did you know you can stretch a non qualified annuity like you can an IRA?  Got anyone in your book with money in a NQ account that wants to pass that money on to kids but the kids don't really want to pay the tax man right now.  Fine, stretch it. 

Life Insurance is incredibly important.  Whether it's a term policy, VUL, or UL/Whole Life you NEED to ask about it.  You start asking your clients about life insurance and you won't have to worry about where your month is going to come from.  I promise if you'll start asking all of them today, by mid summer you'll have closed 2-3 cases and put some nice $$ in your pocket.  And you'll be helping them in the process.  Life insurance is about planning, not product.

Can I call your wife and ask her if she thinks you need life insurance?  Run that life needs analysis on yourself, then get back to us.  If you don't want to buy it yourself, I'll get licensed in your state and buy it for you.  Really, I don't mind.

uwec86,

It looks like Borker took our advice.  Stay focused and stay away from this forum until you are near or have reached the point of no return. If and when you ever come back, don't forget to say hello!

I find it quite humorous that everyone continues to feed these pikers like Borker and EdJehovah… It makes me wonder who is to blame.



I think the guy on The Office put it best when he said, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you, err us, or something like that."



It makes for entertaining reading nonethless.

Speaking of, what happened to my alter ego? I miss him…

Hulk,

Yes, the Executive Office.

I too miss the Incredble One.......I think he got food poisoned at the Chinese Buffet.

[quote=EdJehovah]  I always do what is in my clients best interests.  I'm starving too death as a result.  But I do it anyway.  I don't sell annuities, life insurance, or disability insurance.  I've 1035 a few, but they were already burned.  I sell stocks, bonds, and mutual funds.  However, there is one truth in my region: the big producers are insurance sellers.  Whenever you get close to one, they are expounding about the high-commission insurance deal they just screwed someone with, how easy it was, and asking me why I haven't come to the dark side of boogey man sales tactics.  Well, I just don't want to be that guy in my community.  If they truly did have a need for an annuity, I would sell one, or life insurance, ok i'd screw them w/ their permission on that too, but I don't solicit that crap.  I don't want to own it, and I don't think my clients should either.  [/quote]

So if a client dies or is diabled and has to liquidate a Jones mutual fund with a sales charge that is so much better than a tax-free death benefit....you really need to educate yourself better, or at least admit that you don't do DI or life insurance cause under the Jones system it doesnt pay you anything going through the grid and quit hiding behind this "do what's best" line that has been preached but not practiced at EDJ.

The more I think about EdJehova the angrier I get. Eddie my boy, imagine you are a complete newbie and completely ignorant (sorry, no imigination required) and google FINANCIAL PLANNING BASICS.  When you have read that, then you can come on here and pretend you know what the heck you're talking about.  Not only do you give us newbies a bad name but you sure aren't helping the EDJ image.

If you're gonna get drunk on the kool-aid at least add some rum.

[quote=ExPropTrader]

[quote=EdJehovah] I always do what is in my

clients best interests. I’m starving too death as a result. But I do it

anyway. I don’t sell annuities, life insurance, or disability insurance. I’ve

1035 a few, but they were already burned. I sell stocks, bonds, and

mutual funds. However, there is one truth in my region: the big

producers are insurance sellers. Whenever you get close to one, they are

expounding about the high-commission insurance deal they just screwed

someone with, how easy it was, and asking me why I haven’t come to the

dark side of boogey man sales tactics. Well, I just don’t want to be that

guy in my community. If they truly did have a need for an annuity, I

would sell one, or life insurance, ok i’d screw them w/ their permission on

that too, but I don’t solicit that crap. I don’t want to own it, and I don’t

think my clients should either. [/quote]

So if a client dies or is diabled and has to liquidate a Jones mutual fund

with a sales charge that is so much better than a tax-free death

benefit…you really need to educate yourself better, or at least admit that

you don’t do DI or life insurance cause under the Jones system it doesnt

pay you anything going through the grid and quit hiding behind this “do

what’s best” line that has been preached but not practiced at EDJ.

I echo the life and disability insurance discussion above. 

Personally, I was an VA basher my first few years in the business.  Then I realized that I should not be comparing annuities to mutual funds.  Most of the people I sell annuities to now would be buying a CD or even a money market if they didn't buy the annuity.  Would they be better off with a mutual fund?  Not all of them would, but some certainly would be.  However, earning 7-8% with a death benefit and tax deferral beats earning 4.5% on a CD, which is what they will buy if they don't buy the annuity. 

I tell every single client who buys a VA from me that we can get the same basic investment as a mutual fund for less money.  They don't care, without the death benefit (or income benefit, depending on their needs) they aren't buying any variable product, period.  If they are willing to accept market fluctuations, we usually do an A share mutual fund.

Sometimes you can't do what is perfect (in your opinion) for the client, but you can still leave them a heck of a lot better than you found them if you are willing to have an open mind.

At the risk of going off topic (again), I'll echo EDJ4now.  I had a client with a rollover Saturday and I after explaining the differences between a balanced stock/bond fee-based portfolio and VAs, including what the additional expenses do to a balance after 20 years, I asked him a simple question...Mr. Prospect, if I placed your $500,000 in the market, and we hit a rough patch and your investment dropped $50,000, how would you feel.  He didn't hesitate to say "I wouldn't sleep for a month!"

So, do you give the client what he wants...or what you think he needs?

Quote: "What would you do for a 40 year old that makes 250K per year, wants tax
free growth and retirement income, wants more than the growth in a
muni bond, maxes his 401K (if able to due to top-heavy issues), and can
use some death benefit also? "

Buy a portfolio of no-div stocks (tax-deferral) and term insurance (cheap). You could even harvest tax losses which you can't do in annuities/VUL. No 3-4% internal expenses, no commissions, no surrender charges. Can be used as an EARLY retirment asset, max 15% cap gains not ordinary income.

Just another alternative to the annuity/LIRP...

[quote=EDJ to RIA]

Quote: "What would you do for a 40 year old that makes 250K per year, wants tax
free growth and retirement income, wants more than the growth in a
muni bond, maxes his 401K (if able to due to top-heavy issues), and can
use some death benefit also? "

Buy a portfolio of no-div stocks (tax-deferral) and term insurance (cheap). You could even harvest tax losses which you can't do in annuities/VUL. No 3-4% internal expenses, no commissions, no surrender charges. Can be used as an EARLY retirment asset, max 15% cap gains not ordinary income.

Just another alternative to the annuity/LIRP...

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=EDJ to RIA]

Quote: "What would you do for a 40 year old that makes 250K per year, wants tax
free growth and retirement income, wants more than the growth in a
muni bond, maxes his 401K (if able to due to top-heavy issues), and can
use some death benefit also? "

Buy a portfolio of no-div stocks (tax-deferral) and term insurance (cheap). You could even harvest tax losses which you can't do in annuities/VUL. No 3-4% internal expenses, no commissions, no surrender charges. Can be used as an EARLY retirment asset, max 15% cap gains not ordinary income.

Just another alternative to the annuity/LIRP...

[/quote]

Just curious, what kind of "cheap" term insurance?
[/quote]

I only know term as "term". 10yr, 20yr, etc. Are there different kinds of term?

[quote=EDJ to RIA][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=EDJ to RIA]

Quote: "What would you do for a 40 year old that makes 250K per year, wants tax
free growth and retirement income, wants more than the growth in a
muni bond, maxes his 401K (if able to due to top-heavy issues), and can
use some death benefit also? "

Buy a portfolio of no-div stocks (tax-deferral) and term insurance (cheap). You could even harvest tax losses which you can't do in annuities/VUL. No 3-4% internal expenses, no commissions, no surrender charges. Can be used as an EARLY retirment asset, max 15% cap gains not ordinary income.

Just another alternative to the annuity/LIRP...

[/quote]

Just curious, what kind of "cheap" term insurance?
[/quote]

I only know term as "term". 10yr, 20yr, etc. Are there different kinds of term?

It is nice to see that not everyone at EDJ is a complete moron.

EDJ4Now and Broker24, this one's for you.

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=EDJ to RIA][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=EDJ to RIA]

Quote: "What would you do for a 40 year old that makes 250K per year, wants tax
free growth and retirement income, wants more than the growth in a
muni bond, maxes his 401K (if able to due to top-heavy issues), and can
use some death benefit also? "

Buy a portfolio of no-div stocks (tax-deferral) and term insurance (cheap). You could even harvest tax losses which you can't do in annuities/VUL. No 3-4% internal expenses, no commissions, no surrender charges. Can be used as an EARLY retirment asset, max 15% cap gains not ordinary income.

Just another alternative to the annuity/LIRP...

[/quote]

Just curious, what kind of "cheap" term insurance?
[/quote]

I only know term as "term". 10yr, 20yr, etc. Are there different kinds of term?

[/quote]

Among others there is 10 yr 20 yr and Annually Renewable.

I ask the question because I've been trying to hone my knowledge understanding of that part of the business.  Learning more about permanent insurance as well.

How "cheap" is that term really if the client dies AFTER the term insurance has expired?  Or as they get older and the rates go way up?
[/quote]

It seems like a big dilemma, but term in not perm and vise versa.  Joe if you sold them term to cover a period of time in their life that insurance was needed, say that person dies after it expires, but they had paid their house off (which may have been the original reason they needed it) so what. That term insurance was not bought for AFTER that.  You would also have needed insurance for the time AFTER the house was paid off and term had expired.  This is where permanent insurance of which variety you use is needed. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

They can have both at the same time.

Typically when you buy term it's level term.  At least that's the way everything I've sold at Jones works.  Payment stays the same for the entire length of the term.  Metlife actually has a 30 yr level term.  Might be a great alternative to those 40 or 50 somethings thinking about VUL, but not really concerned about cash value. 

EDJ to RIA - I understand your idea.  You make it sound so simple.  Are you considering that tax rates are the lowest they've been in a REALLY long time?  As the political climate changes, so does our tax system.  15% on cap gains now, what about 15-20 years down the road when your clients want to start selling those stocks?  What do you do when the stocks, like MSFT, suddenly start paying dividends?  Get rid of them, reap the tax gains/losses and buy another one?  I understand the tax loss selling, but do you try to buy few stocks that lose value specifically for the losses?  Doesn't your stock strategy lean a bit toward the aggressive side?  Not a knock against your strategy, those were just the questions that popped into my head.

Spaceman-

Great questions! You're right about the tax law environment, always changing. Just like the tax rules governing VA's or Life Ins could change in the future. That's what clients love about the flexibility. They don't feel stuck because they just paid a commission or have a surrender charge hanging over their head.

On MSFT, we'll take the div and reinvest it! I don't let the tax situation drive my portfolio decisions. Paying 15% tax on a handful of stocks with relatively small dividend is still better than paying 3-4% in expenses on the WHOLE amount just to avoid the div tax!

I don't buy anything because I think it's going to go down. It works just like any mutual fund. The manager buys a portfolio of stocks. A bunch of them go up, a bunch of them go down - just like the stock market. When the manager has an above avg year, it's usually because a handful of the hundred or more stocks happened to have a great year. NO manager has a portfolio of stocks that ALL do well. You just can't see it in a mutual fund. I'd rather be able to get some benefit from a downturn, I just don't know which stocks it will be!

This strategy is not aggressive, just transparent. So that stock that goes down 10% in a quarter the client sees. But he/she can also see that it makes up only 0.20% of their portfolio. Then I can take the tax loss to offset some income. It's a way they can see a silver lining to the market fluctuating.

When you look at the overall portfolio it looks similar to a Capital Income builder or Income Fund of America. A little stock, a little bond, a little cash...

Since you came from Jones you’ve probably her Skrainka say that unless a client has something like 50+ stocks he doesn’t have proper diversification.  How many stocks do you follow at one time?  I have a client with an IRA at Smith Barney and they have 49 stocks, 6 ETFs and smattering of FHLMC & FNMAs.  The part I love, 1.75% annually.  The client can’t tell you from one day to the next what stocks he owns.  Much less what an ETF is.  Are the client you work with more sophisticated than the avg client you worked with at Jones?  Or are you just better at explaining your process?

[quote=Bamzor][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=EDJ to RIA][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=EDJ to RIA]

Quote: "What would you do for a 40 year old that makes 250K per year, wants tax
free growth and retirement income, wants more than the growth in a
muni bond, maxes his 401K (if able to due to top-heavy issues), and can
use some death benefit also? "

Buy a portfolio of no-div stocks (tax-deferral) and term insurance (cheap). You could even harvest tax losses which you can't do in annuities/VUL. No 3-4% internal expenses, no commissions, no surrender charges. Can be used as an EARLY retirment asset, max 15% cap gains not ordinary income.

Just another alternative to the annuity/LIRP...

[/quote]

Just curious, what kind of "cheap" term insurance?
[/quote]

I only know term as "term". 10yr, 20yr, etc. Are there different kinds of term?

[/quote]

Among others there is 10 yr 20 yr and Annually Renewable.

I ask the question because I've been trying to hone my knowledge understanding of that part of the business.  Learning more about permanent insurance as well.

How "cheap" is that term really if the client dies AFTER the term insurance has expired?  Or as they get older and the rates go way up?
[/quote]

It seems like a big dilemma, but term in not perm and vise versa.  Joe if you sold them term to cover a period of time in their life that insurance was needed, say that person dies after it expires, but they had paid their house off (which may have been the original reason they needed it) so what. That term insurance was not bought for AFTER that.  You would also have needed insurance for the time AFTER the house was paid off and term had expired.  This is where permanent insurance of which variety you use is needed.

They can have both at the same time.

 [/quote]

What if the house was paid off, but because they had been prudent investors/savers they now had an estate issue, or simply had money that they wanted to leave as a legacy to their children.  How much higher would their term or UL premiums be in 20 or 30 years?

What about the true net cost of Whole Life when you take into account the equity accumulated in the policy?

[quote=joedabrkr]What about the true net cost of Whole Life when you take into account the equity accumulated in the policy?
[/quote]

Everybody here is majorly overthinking this. Sell people plain old permanent whole life insurance w/o any bells and whistles (i.e VUL), the Wavier of Premium/Unemployment Rider are useful to have.

The key point is that once you have the policy, you can keep it even if you later on become uninsurable. Note being old makes you less insurable, so policies with increasing rates tend to become less practical over time.

For some people, the optionality of Term-90 insurance is useful. I.e you get flat rates for years 1-10 and can then convert the policy to permanent insurance. The downside is that you didn't build up any value during years 1-10.

Whole life + Assured Purchase options can be useful b/c lets say the person get married, has a kid, and then gets cancer. AIG is not impressed when they buy more insurance when the option comes up. 

[quote=joedabrkr]

What if the house was paid off, but because they had been prudent investors/savers they now had an estate issue, or simply had money that they wanted to leave as a legacy to their children.  How much higher would their term or UL premiums be in 20 or 30 years?

What about the true net cost of Whole Life when you take into account the equity accumulated in the policy?

[/quote]

Joe its simply you doing a life insurance analysis throughout their adulthood. We can all look back and get Gerber Life insurance cheap.   I know its a big pay day when you find a couple or Trust that needs estate insurance.   It is cheaper earlier, but its expensive if they don't need it. Don't force whats not, the truth will come out.   

 My hope is in 20-30 years  I am retired and drinking Crown & 7 in Cabo San Lucas wearing flip flops all day trying to remember the last time it rained.

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]Since you came from Jones you've probably her Skrainka say that unless a client has something like 50+ stocks he doesn't have proper diversification.  How many stocks do you follow at one time?  I have a client with an IRA at Smith Barney and they have 49 stocks, 6 ETFs and smattering of FHLMC & FNMAs.  The part I love, 1.75% annually.  The client can't tell you from one day to the next what stocks he owns.  Much less what an ETF is.  Are the client you work with more sophisticated than the avg client you worked with at Jones?  Or are you just better at explaining your process?[/quote]

I don't "follow" any stocks. I pick the asset classes (lg val, lg blend, etc.) by objectively selecting the stocks that match that area. I.E. give me all Lg Cap stocks with low P/E and P/Bk and then give me the 50 that pay the highest dividend. There's Large Cap Value. I don't look at what stocks show up. If you start doing fundamental analysis on those stocks you just screw up the objectivity and process.

Clients have anywhere from 6 to 10 of these asset classes, so max is 10 x 50stock = 500 holdings. Most don't have that many. I do use ETF's some as a proxy when taking tax losses or in an asset class called "market" where I'll have the R3k, MSCI EAFE and AGG.

I do try to explain the process to clients, but since I have 100% discretion I don't call and explain every change or product.

Spiff Quote:"The client can't tell you from one day to the next what stocks he owns." 

-Just like a mutual fund...

[quote=EDJ to RIA]. If you start doing fundamental analysis on those stocks you just screw up the objectivity and process.[/quote]

Bah, I'm more abstract, I start with a total market ETF and then put value and other ETF's over it.

A procedural question.  So you've got a client with 6 asset classes X 50 stocks = 300 stocks.  I would assume you have some sort of program to place all the trades.  I know that not everyone runs a biz like yours but I'll bet I'm not the only guy wondering who in your office spends the time placing 300 trades when you get a new client. 

Playing devil's advocate...you say it's transparent.  Cost, ownership, tax harvesting all out in front of the clients.  Doesn't the sheer mass of the holdings make it much more confusing to the average client and therefore it loses some of it's transparency just based on the volume of information that must be in each of their statements.  If you're not doing any fundamental analysis, just worrying about asset classes why not just use a mix of ETFs?  6 - 10 entries on their statements, you get the asset allocation right, superior performance (since you can't outperform the markets - see QAIB), and you or your computer spend a lot less time making trades and more time playing golf?

Hope you don't mind the discussion.  It's been the most interesting one I've seen on here in a while.

Spiff,

There are a few ways to accomplish this.  One is to hire a Turnkey Asset Management Provider(TAMP) like SEI, Assetmark/Genworth, Russell etc.  They do the asset allocation( either in house or hired out to a stragegist like PanAgora or Wishire) and hire the subaccount managers.  The client gets a consolidated statement showing their individual holdings and all transactions.  The statements can be a bit longer than what you're used to (25pages per quarter is not uncommon).  You can do tax harvesting at year end, exclude certain securities that the client is opposed to or is overweighted in.  Many also have a tax overlay service like Parametric, that will coordinate sales and purchases among the numerous managers to minimize the tax concequences to the client.  The cost is generally starts at 2.4% annually and includes all managment, transaction and advisory fees.  This is less than Jones was charging for their MAP program when I was there with a few more bells and whistles.

Hope that helps

Spiff-

I use FOLIOfn as b/d. They have a unique platform where you can trade entire baskets at once. So if someone trasfers in, I can just choose to "subscribe" them to either an individual folio or a whole allocation (the 6-10 folios I mentioned) with one click. All orders are entered automatically.

Also, when I update a folio or allocation I can click a button to "sync all clients" to the same folio. So from a practice management perspective, it's more more efficient than anything I've ever seen. I can manage 1,000 accounts the same as 1!

That leaves me plenty of time for golf...

PS-Folio charges the client a flat 0.20 percent for all trades, performance reporting, confirms, statements, etc.

"PS-Folio charges the client a flat 0.20 percent for all trades, performance reporting, confirms, statements, etc."

Of course they get a 4% rump tearing when I drop all those "market orders", but Hey, what do I care, I'm playing golf! Client'll never figure it out anyway so what's the diff? "It ain't illegal unless they catch ya." Am I right!? Yoohooo!

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

"PS-Folio charges the client a flat 0.20 percent for all trades, performance reporting, confirms, statements, etc."

Of course they get a 4% rump tearing when I drop all those "market orders", but Hey, what do I care, I'm playing golf! [/quote]

Could you explain this one?

The guy has a magic button he can push and his B/D will enter orders for a preselected basket of stocks "at the market".

If you've been a tape watcher over the years you will notice every so often that stock go across at wildly off the market prices. Executed way above the offer.

The busines of busines being to make money and all, how long do you think it would take the traders at EJD2RIA's firm to figure out how to cross trades "at the market" wher they can keep a spread.

OK, 4% is most likely exaggerating, most of the time. but any trader worth his salt can slide something out over and above the .2% that EDJ2RIA thinks it the total effect on his trades.

Sorry if I seem petulant about it. It just irks me to see people who feel there are shortcuts that don't cost anything. Especially when they are ex jones guys, who aren't particularly know for being the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree. How long did it take them to figure out they weren't who Jones told them they were? Are they smarter than they were at Jones or did they just switch brands of Bugjuice? Based on what I read here, it's much more the latter than the former. 

I’m actually still detoxing from the former bugjuice.  I will let you know about the new bugjuice in a few months.  I’m smarter now, thank you! 

Whomit:

You sound like you have small man's disease. I'm not sure why you always sound so angry on the boards.

Since you don't understand how FOLIO works, I'll try to give you a quick primer.

Folio has a lot of clients. Most RIA's like me, but also a lot of SMA's and funds run through their platform (like Zack's). Everyday, FOLIO has what is known as "trade windows" at 11am and 2pm. The stocks available for window trading are listed on their website (4000+ and ETFs).

Folio aggregates all the buys and sells for the window stocks and before they're sent to an exchange, they first match all internal buyers and sellers. So if my client wants to buy stock A and another folio client wants to sell stock A, Folio splits the difference of the spread and makes the transaction. So the seller gets more than he would have on the exchange and the buyer pays less. Folio doesn't have to pay any transaction costs. Then folio sends the remaining orders to the market. Any orders sent as "market" orders cost an additional $1.95 or $3.95 depending on the trading volume.

Folio makes its money through the flat fees charged, the additional $1.95 or $3.95 on special orders and also gets paid for "non-directed" orders from some companies. See http://foliofn.com/content/help/routing_report.shtml

Steve Wallman, who founded Folio in 2000 is a former SEC commissioner, so I'm pretty sure they go by the book!

Another thing I love about Folio is you can enter your stock trades in dollar amounts, like mutual funds. Buy $20,000 even of Large Cap folio and don't worry about rounding up or down for round lots...

No BS Pears, I actually don't include you in the "much more" group.

"I'm not sure why you always sound so angry on the boards."

It's like Harry Truman said when some one yelled "Give 'em hell, Harry." "I don't give em hell, I just tell them the truth and it feels like hell to them!"

" So if my client wants to buy stock A and another folio client wants to sell stock A, Folio splits the difference of the spread and makes the transaction." Chug-a-lug, bug!

"Steve Wallman, who founded Folio in 2000 is a former SEC commissioner, so I'm pretty sure they go by the book!"

Weddell, Wallman... they're all heroes, 'till they aren't.

I didn't say anything was not "by the book" the "book" is subject to interpretation, however. This is a fact borne out each and every Sunday, if you can catch my drift.

If you'll believe that that company is in the business for 20 beeps you'll believe anything. Which, apparently, you will.

Since you don't understand how FOLIO works, I'll try to give you a quick primer.

Very interesting.!! Thanks for the explanation.

Whomit:



Those “not bright” ex jonesers likely know how to spell business. Geez.

Oh my God! Did I make a spelling error? I guess that means that everything I said was wrong too.

You just keep telling yourself that.

I said nothing about the substance of your post. I just find it humorous that you are telling other people they are dumb while you spell business wrong twice. Funny to me.

And so, in the interest of intellectual perfection you chose to ignore the salient point.

That's proof positive of the previous assumption.