Jones new platform
THIS TOPIC IS NOT FOR JONES BASHING PLEASE! I JUST WANT TO KNOW IF ANYONE KNOWS ANYTHING NEW. WHAT I HAVE HEARD IS BY 2008 IT WILL BE AN "ETF/MFUND WRAP" OF 75-100 BPS. I LOVE THE ETF PART, BECAUSE THEIR TAX EFFICIENCY IS UNDERUTILIZED AT JONES. I ALSO LOVE THAT WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER OPTION, TO PICK BEST OF THE BEST "LOAD-WAIVED" A-SHARES, OR WHATEVER THEY DECIDE ON SHARECLASS. I ALSO HEARD THAT THE PERSON HIRED TO OVERSEE IT ALSO DID THIS AT A.G. EDWARDS, BUT BY BEING LATE TO THE PARTY THEY HOPE TO AVOID OTHERS' MISTAKES. TIME WILL TELL..........ANY OTHER SCOOP?
Yeah I got the scoop,
Weddle has been dangling the carrot for 1 1/2 years about a fee based program...I do know that they will not allow you to change any of your current clients who own revenue sharing products into the "NEW" fee based platform. It will only be available for new money. I'm glad to see they are coming to the party...albeit 12 years too late...Of course Jones is going to tell you it's going to be better, more ethical, and better for the client than any other brokerage firm out there. You will NEVER have control of the pricing model! I also think that if they are saying 2008, you can look for it in 2009, 2010.yes, i agree that normally I would not believe the 2008 timeframe–but my info is that the urgency is there in this case. No, it will not be perfect, and if it is really bad then some folks will leave. Possibly they will keep it so “affordable” with their long-term philosophy that few FAs will use it! After all, need to make a buck (and a trip). However, it’s also possible that they can finally get more revenue (the ongoing fees) without increasing revenue sharing. And it would be nice if 2/3’s of firm revenue was not from one vendor! Diversify!
Unfortunately, you have drank the kool-aid. You don’t realize how long it takes to implement something as significant as a whole new platform. My guess is they will try and make some kind of announcement to the troops at the Summer Regionals 2008 and then they will implement the platform sometime in 2009,2010.
You have to remember Jones is in the process of losing 100 FA's a month to defection...100 FA's a month to non-production. They are doing everything they can to make you believe they will be competitive with the rest of the industry when it comes to fee-based. Unfortunately, I don't see them implementing anything significant that will allow advisors the freedom to choose what's best for the client. Jones chooses what's best for the client and that's it. They will not allow flexibility in pricing, they will not allow you to transfer your book of A-shares to fee based, they will not allow you to mess with the mothership.I feel fairly open minded–I sip the koolaid! However, my understanding is that as a % of total FAs, ALL FIRMS lose reps and ALL FIRMS keep adding more. It’s not a JONES thing. Also, I think Jones is correct that it is not fair to switch clients who already paid a load–however, I hope they treat it like they now treat other switches (they allow loaded funds to switch to a loaded annuity after 4 years generally). As far as pricing, lack of flexibility is a tradeoff I can live with to not be in a branch setting. I AGREE ON THIS: if they do not allow the FA to choose with some significant freedom which ETFs/Funds are wrapped, then I will be angry. I still predict this will be in play in 2008, because Weddle announced 3 months ago that the vendor finalists were being interviewed (apparently Jones is outsourcing this technology, which could speed things along).
Just a thought--
They told us in 2000 that we were going to get email. I think they implemented that strategy in 2006. John Bachman told me from his mouth in 2003, "If you plan on building a fee-based business, you shouldn't do it at Edward Jones." As far as attrition, all brokerage firms experience this, you are right...the problem is EDJ has a model that is perfect for poaching. Experienced FA's get tired of starting at ZERO every month and they are tired of getting paid 40% of .25 bps on trails. They start searching for other solutions. I will reiterate, Jones is a great place to start...I went to a lot of wonderful countries and they allowed me to build a great business without spending a whole lot of out of pocket. They just tied my hands when it came to servicing my clients who wanted a fee based platform. I would assume that this "interview" process that you are talking about is a stalling tactic. I'm glad you said, "sipping." That koolaid tastes real good when you are going on trips and going to regionals.Again, in seriousness, I believe it was “announced” at the 07 regional meetings, and a Jones person I talked to recently hasn’t heard anything lately. It’s too bad if advisors can’t move existing assets into it, because what about those Putnam and Hartford funds still laying around that people finally want to unload.
Anxiously awaiting what Jones decides is "right".Whatever they do, it will be to the benefit of the GP first. Their contention that those that own A shares can’t move into fee based only underscores the dilemna that they have regarding back door revenue that slips through the fingers of the advisors to the waiting arms of the owners. You have to recognize that almost 40% of the revenues split by the partners is at risk.
What about converting those A shares to institutional shares? American does it all the time in non-deferred accounts. The doublespeak is rampant within Jones. Always was and probably always will be. Sorry to pop the bubble newnew..I wouldn't believe the rhetoric on not allowing A share movement. Remember this is a firm of hypocrisy. Say one thing and do another. They're not going to tell the vets they can't move the money to fee base, not a chance. The money will be moving out of A shares faster than the tickets can be printed. I don't blame the brokers, they've been busting their arses for the f'in gp's for to long...go Spaceman go...move the money and enjoy the fruits of YOUR labor.
My favorite example of the rhetoric from the GP’s…There is only one profit center.
Yeah right. If they could read the flippin 10K, they would realize how stupid they appear to those that actually use their brain on a regular basis.Just like the German footsoldiers in WWII…
I don’t know what is up with this forum but I posted a very clean–thoughtful post yesterday on here and it was there several hours and then it was gone. If the purpose of the forum is to answer questions that people ask and they are very good clean answers–then they should not be taken off the forum. Nuff said!
I would chalk that up to a mistake. I don’t recall your post, so I can’t say for sure, but I think it’s apparent by the large gap of missing posts that the admin(s) here are still figuring out how to run the new software.
Me too. They needed to throw a couple of knotheads off of the forum, and that would have fixed 99% of the problems. Instead they keep messing with everything making this forum next to useless. If the subscription wasn't free, I would cancel my RR subscription in protest to the awful job they have done with this forum.I don’t know what is up with this forum but I posted a very clean–thoughtful post yesterday on here and it was there several hours and then it was gone. If the purpose of the forum is to answer questions that people ask and they are very good clean answers–then they should not be taken off the forum. Nuff said!
[quote=Indyone]I would chalk that up to a mistake. I don’t recall your post, so I can’t say for sure, but I think it’s apparent by the large gap of missing posts that the admin(s) here are still figuring out how to run the new software.[/quote]
I saw it. OldLady even responded to it. Now it seems to be gone.
Maybe Bill Good refused to advertise in RegRep. I think he used to write a column for one of their competitors.
If I’m right, then this is probably censorship, not an accident.
Admin…have you anything to say in your defense?
I don't understand the argument about the GP's losing revenue sharing when a fund moves to an advisory fee account. They were crediting .00054%/year to P&L's when I was there, why wouldn't they want to replace that with .6%/year (60% of 1%)?
As little as I like to give Jones the benefit of the doubt, I actually think disallowing that would be more a function of them being holier than thou and thinking the advisor shouldn't have any choice in charging the clients for investments they already bought (of course again missing the point that the client should be buying advice, not products).
CIB
ageed. seems that fee based would be a financial boon to jones like it is everywhere else—I do know that they have compliance concerns. why? because of the structure: no Br Mgrs, so need more control.
I guess even the new platform promises can’t keep them all. This region just lost another Segment 5 broker (that’s $40 k rolling 4 month average) For those of you in Rio Linda that’s about $500k per year. Rumor has it that he was told to stop prospecting out of state with his buds who were retiring from Exxon Mobil. It wasn’t fair that he was taking business from those FA’s in the Houston area!! So, he told the GPs to stuff it and took his business and his BOA elsewhere. I believe he went to the new Wachovia and was offered a single broker office. So I guess it’s not just those who can’t make it in the business who leave Jones!!
There are so many stories like the Exxon Mobil guy. I just heard about another $450,000 producer leaving the Seattle area. I believe they are losing about 190/month. Of those it’s about 50 a month that are between $250,000-$1000000 producers.
YOu guys all lie…Jones doesn’t lose good brokers. They only lose losers and non producers and people who get drunk on the trips and and and…welll you get it. Jones is the greatest company in the whole network marketing world.
Thanks Spears. I agree… Glad you are starting to see things through my eyes…
Miss JI love hearing you guys talking out of your butts. We do lose some big producers from time to time. Just like everywhere else. Guys go indy, they take a big check to go somewhere else, retire, become GPs. Who knows. It is not at a rate of 190 a month. And nowhere near 50 a month from the $250K+ segments. Attrition last year was under 10%. Let’s round up and say we’ve got 11,000 FAs. Thats 1100 last year. 91 a month. That includes everyone from study on up. So your numbers are way off. I you really want, I can find out how many producers from the $250K+ segment we lost.
Didn’t you read my post…they all lie. They act like you guys can’t grow, based on all the brokers you’ve hired the last 10 years…just assinine. Unbelievable with all the 1st in broker satisfaction and client, or excuse me, customer statement’s rated number 1…how could you lose even 1 broker. Unbelievable…I love you Jonesers, every one of you.
We can read.. It's call busting balls. (Got it) Spears- We love you too.. That is the thing.. Without people like you the world just wouldn't be the same.. I can only imagine.... the world would no longer rotate on it's axis. OMG!Didn’t you read my post…they all lie. They act like you guys can’t grow, based on all the brokers you’ve hired the last 10 years…just assinine. Unbelievable with all the 1st in broker satisfaction and client, or excuse me, customer statement’s rated number 1…how could you lose even 1 broker. Unbelievable…I love you Jonesers, every one of you.
Miss Jones, I love you and your firm. You are number 1. I wish I could be like you, and do what’s right for my clients. I just haven’t brought myself to jump on the phones selling bonds all day, like I use to. I don’t know how I got corrupted. I guess LPL has pounded into me the advantage of financial planning. JERKS!!! Could you swing by and pick me up on your way out doorknocking? I do miss this…it would be like taking a coke head out for a little picker upper! Pretty please…
WELL, Okay but only because it’s you… I have a soft spot for ya.
Cute.. But now Bspears we should both get back to work..Dam I crack myself up!!!
I thought the point of a place like LPL was that you get to run your business as you want to. They don't give you any direction on how to run your office. So if you want to do financial planning go for it. If you want to run a transactional business, fine. If you want to put everyone in annuities, more power to ya. So was it LPL that told you to do financial planning or did you just reach a point where YOU realized that you needed to do it?Miss Jones, I love you and your firm. You are number 1. I wish I could be like you, and do what’s right for my clients. I just haven’t brought myself to jump on the phones selling bonds all day, like I use to. I don’t know how I got corrupted. I guess LPL has pounded into me the advantage of financial planning. JERKS!!! Could you swing by and pick me up on your way out doorknocking? I do miss this…it would be like taking a coke head out for a little picker upper! Pretty please…
The real truth is ...this board is getting really boring and I decided to have some fun with you spiffy. I actually do both, planning with our different platforms based on risk tolerance and transactional. Miss Jones is too nice to mess with so.....your it!! How's those CIT bonds holding up??
How is attrition defined? (I seriously can't remember). Does that include the 200 new people every 2 weeks (about 4000/year)?I love hearing you guys talking out of your butts. We do lose some big producers from time to time. Just like everywhere else. Guys go indy, they take a big check to go somewhere else, retire, become GPs. Who knows. It is not at a rate of 190 a month. And nowhere near 50 a month from the $250K+ segments. Attrition last year was under 10%. Let’s round up and say we’ve got 11,000 FAs. Thats 1100 last year. 91 a month. That includes everyone from study on up. So your numbers are way off. I you really want, I can find out how many producers from the $250K+ segment we lost.
THIS TOPIC IS NOT FOR JONES BASHING PLEASE! I JUST WANT TO KNOW IF ANYONE KNOWS ANYTHING NEW. well, we got off track again… …the jones attrition talk has become a self parody! it’s hilarious!
Attrition doesn't matter. EDJ is the best mr or ms new new. GP's don't matter. The only thing that matters is making a buck. Your words.
As Doug Hill said many times when talking to the troops; EDJ has the greatest salesforce in the world. Feel better! I am going to cash my overtime check now and have a glass of merlot.i never said jones is better, or anywhere near perfect. i just laugh about the vitriol. and there is PLENTY to criticize, but attrition (relative to any competitor) ain’t even in the ballpark of problems to address (facts are facts).
Roll out mid 2008, mutual fund advisory account that will include the preferred funds, non-preferred funds and no-loads. It will have auto re balancing using either a portfolio designed by home office or by FA. FAs will be required to meet with clients who have these accounts.
A stock and EFT version may roll out later.
Oh shit!!! I’m going to apply to the local drycleaner…I’m doomed! UNCLE, UNCLE, UNCLE, UNCLE…
Mr. Maxstud,
I think you may be right. I can tell you 2 things: 1. the FA will not have control over pricing 2. The FA will not have control over portfolio design. I think you may be wrong about the mid-2008. I say they will dangle the carrot for 1 more year and at the regionals in 2008 they will say that we are rolling it out in 2009.How the hell can they make an advisor meet with the client and prove they did?
They'll probably have the RL or someone from filed supervision sit in with you when it happens. After all if they require you to do it, someone will have to watch!!!
no, no–they will have a written agreement signed by the FA and the client. To the effect that, yes, this costs more over time but here is exactly what you will receive in return (the standard: quarterly rebalance, port reviews, etc). These will be uploaded for storage and for compliance.
Everything Maxstud said I have heard corroborated at high-level, but I was hoping the ETF part would not wait until version 2.0I also feel that this could FINALLY free the firm from a huge reliance on kickbacks. Using no loads plus fee will not be a lot more costly than Ashares, if at all, yet the firm receives a highr % of that total cost. I cannot believe anyone would be against it at Jones-all it is is another option.
It WILL be ready in 2008NN-
I also feel that this could FINALLY free the firm from a huge reliance on kickbacks. The essence of the delay divulged by a newbie. You aren't long for the Jones model. You are way too intelligent to follow the flock.maxstud: what will be the acct min?
kickbacks, hmmmm…I wonder if that term was coined by Ted Jones himself…or…maybe the new greedy leaders…hmmm
[quote=newnew]I also feel that this could FINALLY free the firm from a huge reliance on kickbacks. Using no loads plus fee will not be a lot more costly than Ashares, if at all, yet the firm receives a highr % of that total cost. I cannot believe anyone would be against it at Jones-all it is is another option.
It WILL be ready in 2008[/quote] I can tell you, Weddle is trying to free himself of the "Old" Jones platform. It is obvious that he (and his team) see the weakness in the pricing model. They made it clear in their 5 year business plan that relying on very few revenue sources (A share MFD's) was a firm weakness. I think what people don't realize is that Weddle is not part of the Old Guard, but he also couldn't come in and clean house without getting taken down. He is making consistent, methodical changes for the better. I am not a Koolaide drinker. If the firm wasn't changing, and if the advisory model is not what I hope it is going to be, I will do my 5 years or so (to build adequate AUM) and then move on. I think Weddle is making the right moves. Those of you that have not been with Jones for the past few years would be shocked at the changes that have occured. I have said this before...I used to work for very large organizations, and never have I seen such positive change in such a short amount of time.Broker 24… You have just opened a can of worms… They are going to come at you with every angle… I agree with you but man ole man- There are some serious Jones haters here…
I like you don't care what most of the people on this forum say.. I only troll here and take my real questions to the 'other' forum. I do agree with your points.. Jim is not like the rest. He also doesn't strike me as a people pleaser.. I love reading is retorts to peoples comments under his Sugg box.. My BOA and I crack up at some of his comebacks. I think Jones is heading in the right direction.. I'm planning on staying here- Unlike you. Miss J[quote=newnew]maxstud: what will be the acct min?[/quote]
$100,000
Since I have difficulty believing that the GP's look out for others, I must be a "Jones hater". They might be headed for some form of change. During my almost 10 years at Jones, nothing happened quickly, blame it on Bachman and Hill I guess.
Although I left after a year with Weddle at the helm, I found him to be sardonic and sometimes very sarcastic. Some might prefer that approach. In terms of leadership, my preference was Bachman. Hill was a mistake for many reasons.he has toned that down, but I love it-breath of fresh air. i agree with Broker24 completely. all change must be done within the system- but I too have never seen so much change so quickly in a co of this size.
the only thing: of the 20 or so challenges listed in the 5 year plan draft, having 65% revenue from one vendor was near the bottom. should be near the top, and I gave them that feedback --whatever that's worth[quote=MISS JONES] Broker 24… You have just opened a can of worms… They are going to come at you with every angle… I agree with you but man ole man- There are some serious Jones haters here…
I like you don’t care what most of the people on this forum say… I only troll here and take my real questions to the ‘other’ forum. I do agree with your points… Jim is not like the rest. He also doesn’t strike me as a people pleaser… I love reading is retorts to peoples comments under his Sugg box… My BOA and I crack up at some of his comebacks.
I think Jones is heading in the right direction… I’m planning on staying here- Unlike you.
Miss J[/quote]
Hey Miss J,
If you have seen my posts over the past year or so, you will see that I am relatively balanced in my opinion of Jones. I have previously voiced many of the things I don’t like. As with any channel, there are pros and cons that you have to balance. For me, I wanted to have autonomy, but could not go indy out of the box (I had no book yet). I had worked in corp finance for 12 years or so, and did not want to be back in an “office” environment with a BOM and others hovering. So I was never going to go wirehouse (not that I have any problem with them, I just don’t want that setup). I may eventually go Indy if the time and circumstances are right. But Jones seemed like the right place for me to start. I don’t regret it at all. Yes, I would like higher payouts and an advisory platform, but in your first year or two it’s tought to sell managed business anyway, since you need the higher immediate commissions to eat and build your book, and you aren’t going to hit a lot of large accounts. So for starting out, it’s not a major loss. That is why the “good place to start” mantra holds true.
Unfortunately, many of the opinions on Jones in this forum are very tilted (in both directions). However, some like to just get people going for fun (ie. BSpears, Spiff), which is fine. It’s sort of entertaining actually.
[quote=footsoldier]
Since I have difficulty believing that the GP’s look out for others, I must be a “Jones hater”. They might be headed for some form of change. During my almost 10 years at Jones, nothing happened quickly, blame it on Bachman and Hill I guess.
Although I left after a year with Weddle at the helm, I found him to be sardonic and sometimes very sarcastic. Some might prefer that approach. In terms of leadership, my preference was Bachman. Hill was a mistake for many reasons.[/quote]
I have no illusions about GP’s looking out for others. There are very few business owners or corp executives that are more concerned about others than themselves.
I agree on your observation of the MP’s. Keep in mind how long Bachman had to refine his leadership style. I am sure he was not the same leader 30 years ago. I see Weddle evolving into a respectable leader. But that takes time. For me, it’s really about what they DO, not what they SAY they are going to do. So far, I like what Weddle has said, and he has done it. But my opinions I’m sure are not shared by all. That’s fine - you can’t please everyone.
[quote=spikedkoolaid]Mr. Maxstud,
I think you may be right. I can tell you 2 things: 1. the FA will not have control over pricing 2. The FA will not have control over portfolio design. I think you may be wrong about the mid-2008. I say they will dangle the carrot for 1 more year and at the regionals in 2008 they will say that we are rolling it out in 2009. [/quote] I think you need to stop talking about Jones and what you think is going to happen. It's like picking your fantasy football team based on the 2002 season. None of you guys who routinely spout off about Jones have been around the firm for a while and have no real basis on which to make your claims. It is not the same firm you worked for. They are working hard to change the mindset of the FAs from Investment Rep to Financial Advisor, ie Financial Assessment & Solution Tools, improving email, fee based platform in 2008, improving track training for seg 4 and 5 FAs, etc. They are going from a build it to a buy it mindset in IT. Which means we get new technology faster than ever before. Performance expectations are going up. Compensation packages for new FAs are improving. I've been here for over 10 years and I've never seen the firm make changes this quickly. Some things are the same, but there are a lot of improvements. Spiked - I'm going to say you are wrong. The only real thing to hammer out with the fee based platform is the pricing structure and how it meshes with our current system. You may be right about the pricing. We may not have any say over it. However, with the MAP program we can discount it if we choose. Maybe they'll give us some latitude with this new program also. There are going to be some ETFs in the new platform. Probably nothing more spectacular than the ones tracking the major indices, but they'll still be there. foot - I liked Bachman too. But he NEVER would have entertained the thought of a fee based platform for the average client. Change is good.Spiffy, how will you incorporate the Turkeys into the new platform? I really loved those frozen turkey's. Will this stop the sales contests you guys run? I mean, how can you come off as a planning firm and still have sales contests???
That’s actually a good question. I haven’t thought about the fee based model and the diversification contest. I guess it’s the same way you would look at it for incentives like that at other firms. Base it on production.
But what about the turkeys?
Sounds like a good suggestion box question.
Does anyone other than Spears actually care about the turkeys? Those contests are pretty much designed for newbies, and nothing more.But what about the turkeys?
"Good Morning Jim. I liked your new haircut in the newsletter. You look sharp. I was asked by a financial advisor, not at our firm, about the sales contests. Specifically, they asked about the frozen turkeys. Are these turkey's still being purchased from your brother? If it is, tell him they're the best my wife and I have eaten. Anyways, are you planning to keep these contests, once we roll out our new financial planning scheme? You know Jim, there is NO ONE who would work harder at accomplishing your goals than me. I would work night and day for you. I would get you coffee anytime you need it, anytime!! All I'm asking oh mighty one, is for a GP position. I know, I know, I spend a lot of time on that forum, but its just to defend you and the firm. There are a lot of bad people out there, and I have to keep the scheme going. I know my production is down, but I have a blister on my foot, and I haven't been able to get out door to door. Anyways, I hope you keep the sales contests, the plaques, the pictures of you and Doug and Bachman. (Yours is the best) Your most loyal servant, Spiffy.
PS....Miss Jones spends way to much time on these boards, and I've reprimanded (spanked) her."Dear Spiffy, I take great pride in the fact we have a system in which the little people in our firm can contribute. We have had many inside this great regime who wanted to stifle the voice of the many low producing profit centers who won’t leave. I appreciate your concern of our great tradition of sales contests. This, my comrade, will continue. I personally pick out the prizes and squezze the live turkeys, just to make sure the struggling IR and their family gets a quality product. See, Spiffy, we’re all about family here. We promote within the most loyal, revenue churning suck ups we can.
I sit here with a grin on my face like a proud papa. I thank you for your contribution to the motherland. I remember being a young lad like you, trodging through the snow in Lebanon Indiana, bugging the shit out of people..just enough to get them to "buy some today." Well, you can see where that gets you. Anyway, thanks for your loyalty, your concern on the contest and spanking Miss Jones. I may have to try that. I've put your name in the hat for the next round of GP promotions. Its not what the company can do for you, its what you can do for the company. Stand tall my friend, for we are different.Spiffy–
I've only been off the kool aid for 1 1/2 years. I do believe that Weddle has a little different approach than his predecessors. I don't agree that things have changed so much as you say. I can tell you that you are still losing veteran FA's at a rapid pace. You are still a firm that promotes mediocrity, i.e., "As long as you run a profitable office, you will be here for a long time." They have raised the performance standards but they still get excited about a $10k net month. Do they really think that $120,000 a year before expenses is a good wage for a business owner? I think they should start recogonizing the $20k net month. The one barometer that I think you can look at is where you are getting your people(new recruits from). Most of your growth has to be organic because the platforms at the Smith Barney's, UBS, LPL, Wachovia are far superior to the $10k muni bond/$25k A Share Mutual Fund/5 stock pack/and $4000 Roth IRA business model. I know for a fact that Transfer FA recruiting department at Jones has a very difficult time selling the 5 year Smith Barney Rep to leave his $15-$20 million fee-based accounts and move to the Jones model. I was in the top 20 in the firm in the MAP program when I left. It's a good program and I've heard it's gotten better. Too bad a lot of upper management was so resistant to the growth of the program when I was there.risk/reward. 120K before expenses is not horrible in the first few years when the FA risked NO upfront capital (unlike most biz owners in general). Many of us will take that risk/reward ratio, esp when we can run our own shop (albeit within firm parameters; another tradeoff many of us will take in the first few years).
Mr. New/New,
You are the exact example of Jones Mediocrity that I was talking about. I said $120k before expenses... Expenses $1000/month health care $1200/month health care $1000/month business expenses/seminar/BOA added pay/advertising, etc $3000/month Taxes $1300/month 401k $2000/mortgage payment for your home $500 left over for food for your family of four for the month... You will not make/save any money at Jones for 6 years...Therefore, your low risk/low reward $10k Net month is MEDIOCRE! Lastly, this is a stat that Spiffy can verify: Less than 25% of all FA's at Jones participate in the firms 401k plan! That's sad! The reason is you don't have any cash flow and therefore can not afford to put the money in even though you know it's the best thing for you.I made a mistake on the second line of my entry…that should read $1000 month state and local income taxes.
[quote=spikedkoolaid]Mr. New/New,
You are the exact example of Jones Mediocrity that I was talking about. I said $120k before expenses... Expenses $1000/month health care $1200/month health care $1000/month business expenses/seminar/BOA added pay/advertising, etc $3000/month Taxes $1300/month 401k $2000/mortgage payment for your home $500 left over for food for your family of four for the month... [/quote]Wow that sure is some fuzzy math you got going there spike. 30% federal tax bracket at $120k/ year? Should be a solid 25%, plus health care and 401K are pre-tax dollars, I come up with $1875 in Fed tax. So now you have $2375 to feed your family of 4.
My breakdown would look like this:
$367/month State tax, no local tax, reduce with pretax dollars for health and 401k
$777/month Health care, I use the Health savings account option
$400/month Biz expense/ advertising
$1980/month fed taxes, 25% tax with pretax dollars for health and 401k
$1300/month 401k
$1400/month mortgage
$3776 to feed family of four and we might catch a movie after Saturday soccer games.
This is why LP is so attractive to the mid-level producer. They come up with 20k after tax dollars, which at a 20% ROR (13% after tax) is returned to you in the form of a monthly income over 7.69 years (do the math). It makes them feel like they have an added monthly income coming in! Meanwhile every three years or so they get to start all over again! LP doesn't become a "gift" until year 9...
Max - you forgot to add in your profitability bonuses. If you’re at $120K net, then you are going to get a bonus. If I cared enough I would do the math and tell you how much it would be. You are also going to fund your business expense account with pre-tax dollars, so take the $400/month biz expense and advertising and move it to pre tax. Should we net out the cost of the taxes on the Diversification trips and add that to the pie? Yes, I know you LPL guys get to go to San Diego if you hit a certain level. Do they tax you on that? Also, you are using the firm’s numbers for the HSA plan. It’s only $360/month. Any contribution to your HSA is up to you. Otherwise your numbers are pretty good.
Don’t forget to add the taxes to the sales contests. Remember the turkeys, spiffy?
OK, the turkey thing kind of bugged me at first, but now it makes me chuckle. The prizes used to be things like gift cards to the Jones catalog or to restaurants. Now they’re things like a signed picture of John Bachman from 1985. Seriously, what am I going to do with that? At least with this one we can choose between two kinds of turkeys, a ham, and a 6" cheesecake.
Wow… penny here, penny there… woopty doo…
Fellas it simply boils down to the fact that they are paying you with your own money. Since you guys like jones math, then maybe you will like my math. Give me 5000 and I will give you back 2000 or if you are a "Big Hitter" you can give me 10000 and I will give you back 5000... you know for that profit sharing, LP and "bonus" ... Any takers??? Well I didn't think so. I guess I will have to work on the flavor of my koolaid a little more.... maybe a little less TRUTH and a little more smoke and mirrors. Your 10 net month is my 22 net month. .... hmmm I can work every other month and make more than the joneser who works every month..... I better keep that to myself... wouldn't want them jumping all at once..... Have a nice dayPeople always comment on my math…I’m excited to detail it for you, but if you are living in California your mortgate is more like $3,000-$5000 month. We didn’t put car payment if you choose to have one. We didn’t put cell phone, half the postage, half the phone bill, day care…
I guess what I'm saying is $10k a month is M.E.D.I.O.C.R.E. I'm not saying you can't make a living but it's not being a business owner...Jones word of the day.....M.E.D.I.O.C.R.E...
Spiffy, Just my suggestion. Take a nice digital of Bachman's photo, put on e-bay...and make 100% on the profit, not 38%. Just another way to "STICK IT TO THE MAN". Also, I appologize for copy and pasting your suggestion wire on this forum.Spiff,
Keep in mind that back in 2002 Jones lost it's number 3 producer in the firm out of Griffin Ga and one monetary reason was Jones was in a zero bonus bracket...Much of the sales force at the time and still today don't qualify for bonuses of any size. This was mentioned in your previous post as a large portion of compensation.Bonus at Jones= The ability to have your hard earned cash slip right through your hands to the waiting arms of the GP.
Example.... Do they still deduct the same cost as the satellite (I recall 1300/mo) for the T1? If you pay $400 as a single subscriber out in the real world, economies of scale would tell you maybe $100 per month (with 10,000 offices) would be in order. Oh wait a minute, could they be showing higher expenses than they really are to make the bones smaller? Nah, that couldn't possibly happen to such a fine organization could it? At Spiff's stage, he doesn't make enough to worry about expense. Only revenue. Bones aren't more than 10% of commissions even at the 50% bracket.You guys are silly.
Max-
Tell us what is so silly about misinforming the troops of the reality that their bosses are screwing them. (Maybe they should know and don't need to be reminded) I know its the American way. Management always treats their employess like......employees. You either are the man or you take it from the man. Period. The only thing that's silly is your comment.I don’t comment on these hijacked Jones threads, I shared what I knew about the platform and left it at that. Until spike said you would pay 30% fed tax on $120k/year, clearly incorrect math is my weakness. I think you guys are silly for still arguing the same points for the last 2 years, you didn’t like it, you left and no one really gives a shit anymore. I just wish Spiff would give up the fight and let you guys circle jerk amongst yourselves.
I think Blarmstorm said it best when he told bspears…“You just sound like a whiny bitch”.
I’m done.
Mr. Max,
I tried to stay on topic. The interesting thing is the attrition, expenses, attraction to the firm are all related to the EDJ platform. I'm sorry...I don't like to circle jerk or beat a dead horse. I will reiterate...Jones was a great place to start...I'm making $650,000/year now. No way I could've done that at Jones.NO- RUL: this was another hijacked thread by folks who cannot give it up. jones is imperfect as hell, but it’s all about tradeoffs that some people LOVE and some people HATE. as always, it’s the haters you hear from over, and over, and over…LIFE"S TOO SHORT!
Well I never really hear anything that good about Jones other than it is a good place to start, and get the hell out of there as soon as you can. I personally have never worked with them so I have no idea from my own dealings.
I don’t hate Jones, I love Jones. Miss Jones…Goodbye Max, you whinny bitch.
Bspears… Were you telling me that you love me?? That was real sweet. Jones loves you too.
Why are you calling Max a whinny Bitch- You must admit Jones haters really do whine.. I don't know why you all don't just move on but hey- that's your life.. You choose to focus on hating your old firm instead of telling us all how GREAT your new firm is.. So here we are.. Always getting a good laugh.. So Cheers.. Thanks! BTW- Love you too.. No.. No I really do. Miss JI’m sure Jones loves me more everytime I transfer an acct from my old office…more and more…
They do! Guaranteed. They even want you to hurry up and move as many as you can as fast as you can… Then we will all will be able to move in… Even those in this forum that have to hear about the ACATS on a regular basis.
Miss J?
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