Grass is greener....at Jones

Sounds like the GP's are running scared..............their lies are catching-up, and they are loosing more experienced IR's percentage wise and number wise than at any time in their history, and they keep spreading untruths..........................  Don't they realize that some of their IR's actually do read the WSJ, even though their clients don't according to Doug "3 Mil" Hill who should have been sent to early retirement if the other GP's had any hoinesty left in their bodies..........how can any self respecting vet put up with that CRAP?

Oh, they aren't, they are leaving...............

Doesn't someone have a copy they can at least quote from? 

I'll try and get a copy.

I have a copy, but can't paste it.

It's very interesting.  I recruit for indy and wires and some of the info is accurate, some is so far-fetched it is ridiculous.  For example:

"The best of the best keep 2/3 of the assets and customers....The overall average:  55% stay with Edward Jones..."

Ever broker that I have moved from Jones has taken AT LEAST 80% of their assets and 99% of the accounts the want to take. 

The 55% of clients staying behind may be perfectly accurate.  However, I would like to see what these clients have under management - is it $1000, $5000?  I'd be hard pressed to say that a $1M client that has the opportuntity to move to a platform offering a variety of fee-based options (let's say ML, SSB, UBS, etc.) would say "no, let's keep trading C-shares."

Where they get this info is beyond me.

55% assets stay with Jones?  That's an outright lie and they know it. 

Keep in mind that they are continually attempting to re-prove themselves to the vet IR that they are the "best deal" in town.  It seems that they will say almost anything or twist any statistic if it suits their objective.

It is well documented that I took over 90% of the assets within 4 months (75% in the first 60 days).  I know of many others that have similar numbers and i know of NO ONE who has gotten under 50%...unless they inherited a branch and left soon thereafter which is rare.  I now have 125% of the assets I had when I left Jones.  Simply put Jones lies.

If I were at Jones AND recieved that wire--and was contemplating indy---I WOULD be upset.  Upset that yet another twisted truth made it's way to the "Greatest Salesforce in the World".  Soon, they will start calling themselves "The DUMBEST Salesforce in the world"

Smart brokers know better when they read that stuff. 

I've been told they'er starting to feel the pinch at the home office.  It's starting to hurt and they are concerned.  Younger cool aid drinkers will read it and believe it.  They're an insulated bunch that don't know any better.  Yep, the smarter and more seasoned ones will realize it is bull.

All it takes is for an IR to go out and look around and judge the facts.  When you do that, like I did, it's like getting hit in the face with a bucket of cold water.  You just can't ignore the truth once you are exposed to it. 

I’ll quote anything you would like to hear.

BrokerRecruit-

There was something about selling your book as an Indy and the Jones response was something along the lines that selling a book is a myth and the the Jones LP is the answer.  Of couse, Im paraphrasing here..... Help us out.

Check out the great thread somewhere on this board about selling your book. It was started a week ago and has a whooping half dozen posts already! If Jones is over hyped by its IRs the equivalent over hype in the INDY world is “Yeah, but I can sell my book”

Here goes:

fptransitions.com states that the fee-based portion of the book sells for 210% of the production and the transactional side sells for 110% of production, verified either rolling YTD or LY.

EDJ states:

"One of our independent competitors says a book is worth $1,000/million, or a $100M business is worth $100k....

Compare that to the income on your LP after a career at Jones...."

Biggest load of crap I've ever heard.  Show me a producer that sold $100M in assets for $100k and I'll show you the biggest idiot in the world.

I'd also like to know who this supposed indy competitor is and what they were puffing on when they said this...or should I say IF.

Recruit, so what are you saying a book is worth? FP Transitions has plenty of high asking prices but where are the deals being done? Also, with a 30% downpayment what happens when the seller

1) walks away from the deal? Do you come out of retirement?

2) Sues you becasue 2/3rds of YOUR clients do not stay with them once you are gone (Zacko says clients come for him and nothing else, not comforting to a buyer)

3) I read Gaus article, plenty of negative information there. (Does he own FP?, scary man)

My EXISTING LP (not what is in my "pool" will average 50-55k per year without me working. That is today, I wil have more and likely will see 75k in retirement from it, each and every year.

The omnipresent “Guest1” has scored a clear victory…enough to motivate ol’ Bill out of retirement to voice my approval. I’ve been wined and dined (or beered and dined) twice in the last month. My morbid curiosity keeps me from turning down these free lunches with 35 year old guys with really white teeth and expensive suits who say “perfect” every second word. I’m sticking around. My bonuses are actually pretty good these days. I’m making an obscene living, at least for a guy from a small town on the Prairies. The trips are fun…even though there is always at least one guy at my table with a toupee’ who leans a bit too close to my wife after a few beers. I’m a happy camper. The LP, surpise surprise…is GOOD and worth doing, contrary to what Zack etc say. The naysayers are wrong…Jones is okay for some of us who have worked too hard for too long to get sucked in by some Carpetbagger with a yankee accent promising the moon.

Where did you Jones guys get the idea that all books sales go through FPTransitions?  I’ve never bought or sold myself, but I do know a couple of people who have, and it’s been done through business brokers who specialize in our industry.  I won’t say that it’s commonplace, but it’s not the rare occurance that you apparently think it is.

Guest and Bill,

Have you guys never heard of a CPA or attorney selling his practice?Have you ever heard of any business being sold?

Reality is that it happens all the time.  Businesses are bought and sold all the time.  How is our industry any different?

You simply must quit believing the dribble Jones sells you if you want to be taken seriously.

Guest: Are you trying to say that it is impossible unreasonable to sell brokers book or a financial advisor"s practice? Or, are you just repeating the Jones line because that's all you know how to do?

BF:You said, "Jones is okay for some of us who have worked too hard for too long to get sucked in by some Carpetbagger with a yankee accent promising the moon. " This says one thing. Loud and clear. You're scared.  You are too afraid of losing what you have to try anything new or even consider another avenue.  I'm glad you're happy, but for those of us who have girded our loins and taken the road less traveled, the reward is greater than you could imagine.

Ex, immpossible? NO. BUT, it is so overly hyped on this board that the book has XXX value. FEW are sold at what YOU think they are worth. I have a book that many would envy, I have a gross that puts me in the top 1 or 2% of our indutry and I have a net-net payout that would rival yours. I HAVE been to San Diego and Chicago to talk. I have spent hours on the phone with the Florida folks. I am in the best spot for me and my family. But, thank you for the concern. AND, I can imagine.

Starka, no FP is not the only one. Buy, it is the only one anyone ever touts. Although I have not seen or heard of a SINGLE post on here from ANYONE that has bought a book. Where are they ?

Guest1, the truth is that there are only a couple of dozen brokers posting regularly on these boards.  I wouldn't think that it's all that strange that there are no retired brokers who sold a book here.

I do, however, have a friend who has bought several practices and seems to do quite well with the business.  If he wasn't, why keep doing it?

BillF-up, Guest1, lame employees working for slave labor, you think you have it so good, because you don't have enough sense to do the math............You own nothing at Jones, your LP income when you die is gone to your survivors, what's up with that?

By the way, who controls your LP earnings?   

If, you are 50% the producers you claim to be, you only have to look at your own book and see the 20% of (YOUR COMMISSIONS) you are contributing to the GP's get 50% Plus payout, and Lp's get between 15% to 22%(of their own money), and you think you are coming out good on this?  

Simple Math:  500K Gross X's .38 = $ 190K (Minus your expenses)

Best Bonus paid on your Profitablity is nowhere near an additional 100K in your Pocket (20% of your 500K goes to you instead of to GP's  & LP's)  Now be HONEST, is that not better than you are getting?  It's simple even for you two girlie men

Do you love Edward Jones more than your own FAMILY?

Do the MATH..........it's a NO BRAINER, even for you two

* Disclaimer: I am way to conservative on the net payout as an INDY showing only a 58% NET that is closer to 65 to 70% in my office, but 58% is higher than any Edward Jones IR has ever received from personal production, and that is a FACT! 

I have done the MATH........wake-up DRONES & CLONES,

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOUR..F R E E ............

I've considered all the options too, and have been courted by four separate well-meaning Jonsers.  End result for me was a very easy decision to go independent with LPL.  Despite all the hype, Jones is only a quasi-independent organization and was definitley not a good fit for me.  I detest stupid mandatory rah-rah sales meetings that take me out of the office and away from sales opportunities.  I detest selling investments door-to-door and/or calling clients with the stock or bond of the week.  It's obvious that plenty of Jonsers are not happy with what their firm is up to these days.  It speaks pretty clearly to me when a firm puts out a piece full of lies designed to keep reps in the fold through fear, that they themselves don't think they are the best game in town.

If jonsers are happy with their structure, payouts, and the way they can conduct their business, then bully for them.  I too was once a happy camper sipping my company's Kool-Aid until the day they crapped on me once too often.  Now, I am considering sending management a Christmas card, for without their stupidity and stubbornness, I probably would have never considered looking elsewhere.  For my business, the Jones model would have been a huge step backward for both products and available technology.

YAH

I AGREE WITH INDYONE...

I left Jones. I learned alot there in five years. I found my voice there. I left and have never regretted it.  I never drank the Kool Aid. I tell this to my old colleages that are still door knocking after five years..."YOU DON'T NEED JONES TO EARN A LIVING IN THIS BUSINESS."

J-S

Indyone
Senior Member



Joined: May 30 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 230

Good move. Good post. You nailed it.

As a side note.  I was staying at a hotel a few weeks ago and walked by a conference room with someone giving a speach about the wondeful culture of their company.  They were part of a family, and their colleagues were thier best friends.....  I was sure it was a group from my famed alma mater, Edward Jones.  But low and behold, it was A Mary Kay rally.  If they changed the sign on the door, I would not have been able to tell the difference.

Some people get it and some people don't.  I know I will start a fury by making these comments but I have to.  Those of you who are independent especially former Jones advisors testify to this.  How much more have you learned about being a planner since going independent?  How much more value are you bringing to the table for your clients since moving independent?  Why?

It amazes me how much Jones advisors grow after they put down the kool-aid and really learn that there is more out there to offer clients and really do the right thing for them than mutual funds and Southern Company stock.  Frankly, it's embarrassing that Jones advisors are considering themselves advisors anyway.  The lack of platform and product choices to stay w/i the least common denominator regulatory parameters, only tells half the story.  I love the Jones advisors that brag about treating the clients right - how many of you like all other Jones advisors build the book so clients assets mature and allow you to reinvest for more commission?  Deep down, you know that's why you do it and that it's not about the client.   You know why you do it that way?  Because you can't build a business from a purely advisory based approach.  The fact that you don't even have a choice is embarrassing.   Oh well, at least there are bonuses this year... and LP payouts of $55 or $75k to look forward to in retirement.....after how many years of slaving for the man, and that's what you're bragging about?  

That must be why every former Jones advisor that has gone independent always says....I wish I would have done this sooner!

Guys,

Having the flexibilty with your book at end game (as an indy) is an advantage you simply do not have at Jones.  You can spin it anyway you want but the result is still the same.  And, as far as the LP goes?  It's not a bad investment...never said it was.  But--it's not a fantastic investment either.  Especially when you think of all the crap you gotta go through to get it?  and besides, YOUR GIVING THEM YOUR MONEY.  So, there is the opportunity cost of funds that you do even factor in.  That, and the fact that you are paying taxes at the highest rate every year on the earnings and that none of it is deferred. 

Yeah, it's a decent investment overall--but it's nowhere near what Jones makes it out to be and it is certainly not a reason to remain at Jones under any circumstance.  That's like me saying the FREE stock options I get at RJFS which have averaged comparable to LP returns (did i mention free) over the last fifteen years is a reason to go indy.   Sure, they are nice...but it's much more than an LP or free stock options guys.   It's product, flexibility, and takehome pay.  ALL which are better an indy.

As a former Jones broker--I used to be in the skeptics camp.  After all, it's what you were "trained" to do.  Doubting that it could be better in spite of what I have been told and not trusting the recruiters from indy and making excuses for Jones and giving them the benfit of the doubt when I compared firms.  It's almost as if you have to force yourself to think objectively.  Once you do...it's the ONLY way to do business and you guys have no idea what you are missing. 

No offense to broker recruit--but go talk to some former Jones brokers and ask them if they are really happier.  OH BTW..i get trips here too.

I

Bill,

you are right - if you are happy at Jones, more power to you.

And to everyone bashing fptransitions.com, I don't care.  It means nothing to me where an FA buys a book or how.  That is the industry average, whether it is purchased through fp or not.  I'm sure there are some that fetch more than that and some (transactional books) that fetch less.

My point was that the statistics in that memo were inaccurate, or at least they are Q4, 2005.  They may have been accurate in 2001, maybe early 2002, but not now.  They hold no bearing.  If I were a new broker and I knew of someone wanting to to sell me their $100M book for $100k, I would purchase it any way I could, shake their hand and, after the deal was done, tell them what a bonehead they are. 

Although, if it were a $100M book worth $100k, it must be mostly, if not all, transactional and probably facilitated by a stock-jockey or, better yet, a mutual fund-pusher.  I do bet, however, that if it were a $100M book at Jones, it would be filled with all of those lovely $500k+ fee-based accounts.

[quote=zacko]

  That, and the fact that you are paying taxes at the highest rate every year on the earnings and that none of it is deferred. 

Yeah, it's a decent investment overall--but it's nowhere

[/quote]

Please clarify what you mean by paying taxes at the highest rate...are you saying that this is because you were in the highest tax bracket anyway? Or are you inferring that the LP income is taxed differently than ordinary.

LP income is taxed as ordinary income and for me that was at the highest rate.  For most who have Jones LP it will be in either of the top two brackets.  Point is that while it's decent..it's a long way from being the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Zacko- You still preaching to the masses? How about some business ideas to help us make more money tomorrow and not switch firms… I hope you are well.

[quote=noggin]Zacko- You still preaching to the masses? How about some business ideas to help us make more money tomorrow and not switch firms..... I hope you are well.[/quote]

Nogging it is quite obvious that you prefer the koolaid over the truth, hey that's okay by me. Zacko, uwec, illuminati (where-ever you might be) and of course myself, have given you a way to increase your net/net, spend more time with your family, go on trips when where and with whomever you chose, and most importantly how to ensure how a spouse/family can benefit financially from your hard work should you die.

If you don't want to listen, let alone back up your claims we really don't care.

Just like you were fooled on why the preferred family of funds were "the best", you are being fooled into believing you are working for the most ethical and doing best by the customer brokerage firm and that youre employer will "do right by you".  I thought that way until the3 months before I left (after 5 years). Boy was I wrong, just as I think you are.

Going indy is the fastest way to increase your income and make more money tomorrow.

We started doing small intimate lunches with groups of clients and asked them to bring a friend.  I've also started taking individual clients and CPA's to lunch more.  ALso, I still do widows lunches on their birthdays.  Although I still do it, I have started to feel that advertising is a shot in the dark and while occasionally you might get some business as a result--there is no substitute for getting in front of people who can do or refer you business.

I'd be happy to discuss business ideas on a new thread if you or anyone else wants to start one.  I could learn a thing or two myself from many of you and will be starting a 2006 biz plan soon. 

Mr. Fak-land,

You are still the champion comic on this site!  Each and everyone of your posts are side splitting comedy.

Toupee wearing IRs hitting on your wife and she's probably enjoying the attention because you're spending too much time away from home doing all that charity work (NIRSS, visiting vet etc etc).  Perhaps you should explain to her how much money met/net your leaving on the table by staying with the best sales force in the world.  She finds out that you're leaving an extra 30-40% on the table, I bet you'll need a toupee from the scalping she'll give you.  Not to mention going on trips that SHE'D like to go on, when SHE wants to and with whom SHE'D prefer, instead of the toupee wearing drunk IR (or was that a GP?).  Not to mention the fact that SHE (or your family) could sell your book of business should something happend to you (or is that why you're still at your firm as the missus might take your life for staying with all those drunk toupee wearing IRs)

But from the sounds of it you've drunk too much koolaid to be concerned about what's in your family's best interest.

No one says you have to deal with more intelligent, younger, better dressing (than you) yankees, heck you can deal with some red-neck fannel wearing good' ole southern boy. But then you're just looking for excuses to stay and hope for that GP.  Hope your wife can put up with some groping and don't say it doesn't happen. 

Best of luck laughing oldster.

Alll the Jones Drones and Clones have went silent.

the TRUTH BITES...................doesn't it?

I still haven't heard any comments from the Jones preachers on the new VA policy there.  They must think highly of their advisors to place this new policy.  Jones has decided that all 1035 and new VA business has to be reviewed by good old field supervision prior to placing the business.  Must make you vets feel good about that.  So after working in this field for 10 + years, you have to have a no experienced advisor or failed in the field  home office rep, ok your ability to place a client in a VA.  IT makes sense being an employee doesn't it?

They apparently decided to higher a separate compliance department to focus on that only. 

So tell me again, who does jones GPs and decision makers align themselves with - their backsides or their advisors? 

ALL 1035's AND NEW BUSINESS prior to placing VA ticket?  That's too funny.

Thanks to Edward Jones for offerring up continual reminders of why I left!

I have my issues with Jones too, but At Merrill, we have gotten tighter and tighter reviewing 1035 and VA business also. I think firms have to have a rigorous process for VA applicants, to help assure suitability. They need to at least look like they are trying, so when they get audited, they are protected.

I still haven't heard any comments from the Jones preachers on the new VA policy there.  They must think highly of their advisors to place this new policy.  Jones has decided that all 1035 and new VA business has to be reviewed by good old field supervision prior to placing the business. 

It bites, and it isn't just Jones.  My B/D recently instituted a policy that all variable direct (life and annuity) business gets sent to the home office for review. so everyone get ready.  Not only is it insulting, but it delays the entire transaction by at minimum a week.  I have never had one turned back, but still......to be treated like children.  Pffffft.

It is no big deal, at my firm, If it's in the best interest of the client they will fly right through, I have never had one turned down, it's common sense with all the witch hunts going on this will continue for some time, so get used to it.

As for Edward Jones the compliance officers seemed to be out to get your a77, but on the Indy side they actually are there to help you do the right thing, for the client and your business, it was very refreshing after dealing with the Jones Gestapo......  

LPL  VA Policy is not getting any better either!

RJ has been asking for more info but NOTHING close to what Jones is needling their reps about.

csmelnix and zacko- Wrong information on 1035’s and VA’s. Thanks for playing, though…

[quote=noggin]csmelnix and zacko- Wrong information on 1035's and VA's. Thanks for playing, though.....[/quote]

How about telling us what is wrong about it!

GO PLAY WITH YOURSELF!

Zacko, maybe you ought to read what your firm is doing to you on annuities. Oh yeah, you work for yourself. (yeah right)

Guest1,  I cant figure you out....its as though you try so hard to justify to yourself that individuals that left Jones are worse off than they were before....YET I HAVE NEVER SEEN A SINGLE POST or even heard of anyone that left Jones say they regret it.  Except, of course, on the infamous memo that is the topic of the thread.  I remember the memo, came over the weekend nightwire around Feb '05, then kept showing up...over and over....and every week there is a variation of that thing on the final "Doug Hills corner" topic.  Some touchy feely...

"Dear Doug, thank you so much for your leadership! I wanted to take a moment to tell you that I have worked for what are often billed as the 'top firms' before coming to jones, and there is no comparison.  I am thrilled with the products offered here, my pay is much better, and the technology is top of the line.  I was even independant for a period of time before I came here and I can assure you...the grass is definately greener here than elsewhere. Be sure to tell all the new brokers that they are truly part of the greatest salesforce in the world. This is why it is so important that we spread the good news and recruit new IR's to share in this great opportunity.  We know that new hires help us all and raise our market share for everyone.  Thanks and keep up the good work.  Stan Smith, Seg 5, Honkytonk, USA" 

I wish I had saved them all...Every single Jones employee out there knows I am telling the truth that some variation of this horse crap is printed weekly on the nightwire or the Doug hill corner.

G1,

And we all know that your soon to be ex-Managing Partner wrote all of those wires himself.

Some people drink the kool-aid, some people are open-minded, and some just downright beer-bong the stuff.

Guest1,

I already know what RJFS is doing with annuities but it is nowhere near to what your going through at Jones as far as I can tell.

I can live with a 7% commission over the first seven years.  The L share annuity will be a thing of the past ( u don't have those at Jones anyway) with a 4% up front and a 1% trail for life of contract.  They are about 10% of my business.  There are many advisors who use annuities much more extensively than I do.  I'd imagine they would be more upset than I.

As far as being in business for myself...I am dude and I have a corporate tax return to prove it.  Sure there are issues and instances that change the way I do business but nothing compared to Jones.  I like a strong compliance department..but not one that gets in the way between me and my client.  No firm is perfect but being indy is by far the better choice then remaining at Jones for any vet broker.

G 1

Who are you sticking up for?  Think about it, now ask yourself when was the last time they stuck up for you.  This new VA policy is a great example; to say what's wrong with it goes to a point I made earlier, Jones' policies are set for the lowest common denominator - as a result, the vets pay the price too.  If you don't have confidence in the advice you give and feel comfortable with EVERY VA application having to go in front of somebody in the home office who does not know you or your client from anybody - you really are a joke and really shouldn't be in this business.  Now go have another drink of the kool-aid and wonder why - no advisor that has left jones has ever had any regret other than they didn't do it sooner.

I can't help but shudder everytime one of you makes reference to koolaid. It's funny that csmelnix talks about Jones as the lowest common denominator. I was thinking the same about the writer. Anyone else find the analogy pitiful.

As far as I know, no one has died at Jones because of the greedy GP's....Maybe some of you have heard that we live in a free society and are able to choose our paths in life (business or otherwise). Some have chosen a different route than the indy way. Get over it and move on.

[quote=7yrvet]

As far as I know, no one has died at Jones because of the greedy GP's....

[/quote]

Nice standard to measure success by. Pitiful.

[quote=7yrvet]

I can't help but shudder everytime one of you makes reference to koolaid...

....Maybe some of you have heard that we live in a free society and are able to choose our paths in life (business or otherwise). Some have chosen a different route than the indy way. Get over it and move on.

[/quote]

Yup. Free society. You're the one that keeps reading the posts here.  I say you drink kool-aid. Deal with it. But remember, I'm the one that told you you were giving up 20k per year so 3mil could count you among the "greatest salesforce."  Now, pay his legal fees so he can keep doing it, and then come buy the bridge I have to sell you.

7yearvet,

I guess the koolaid that you seem to mainline also interfers with reading comprehension too!  Please re-read csmelnix's post especially "Jones' policies are set for the lowest common denominator" refers to your IRs not Jones as the lowest common denominator.  I'm sure simple minded individuals could make that 'leap' of judgement very easily.

exdrone -

EXCELLENT REBUTTLE !

Civilized dialogue appears to be an impossibility on this forum.

7yearvet,

That's rich, expecting civility from a "darksider" like myself.

Tell you what I'll buy you a beer chaser to go along with that koolaid shooter.

Oh and in case you haven't read your hometown paper, you may want to start planning on a "stepping down party"

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/editorialc ommentary/story/FD8A45FAB914CED0862570AE0038000B?OpenDocumen t&highlight=2%2C%22doug%22+AND+%22hill%22

OUR VIEW: EDWARD JONES: Booting the boss

Below is the link to the story.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/editorialc ommentary/story/FD8A45FAB914CED0862570AE0038000B?OpenDocumen t

Here is the story.

U.S. ATTORNEY Catherine Hanaway was right in refusing to let Douglas Hill remain as head of the Edward Jones brokerage.

The decision sent an important message: Corporate sleaze is not
forgivable, no matter how prominent the corporation. She upheld the principle that chief executives who condone deceit can be made to suffer personally.  Kid gloves are not in fashion at the federal courthouse.

Neither Mr. Hill nor the firm has been accused of a crime. Instead, the
firm was taken to task civilly for deceiving its customers. Its sin was
in being slimy, and Mr. Hill presided over the deceit.

The Des Peres-based firm urged clients to buy mutual funds on its
"preferred list." Customers believed the funds were preferred because
they were high performers. The firm didn't tell clients that the funds were kicking back about $90 million a year to Edward Jones.

Such kickbacks, more politely labeled "revenue sharing," are not
crimes. Neither are a lot of shady practices.

The Securities and Exchange Commission - jolted awake by a spate of
corporate scandals - took after Edward Jones with a civil
investigation, and the U.S. Attorney joined in. The settlement was negotiated before Ms. Hanaway took office this year. The firm agreed to pay $75 million in fines and make restitution to clients. Mr. Hill agreed to step down by Dec. 31 from a job that paid him $1.8 million last year (after deducting his $3.1 million share of the company's fine).

With the date drawing near, the firm asked for a reprieve to allow Mr.
Hill to stay in the top job. Ms. Hanaway gave a polite listen, then turned them down. "Can Doug Hill stay? No he can't stay," she told the []Post-Dispatch[].

Edward Jones' dalliance with deceit is a shame, because it soiled its reputation for caring for customers. The firm preaches a buy-and-hold philosophy that serves clients well in building wealth over time. It's
the opposite of the buy-quick/sell-quick pitch that builds commissions at other firms.

Edward Jones' mutual fund misbehavior was an aberration. The firm needs to rebuild faith with its customers. To that end, Mr. Hill needs to move on.

Interesting...thanks for the info.

7year,

There is a four letter word that comes to mind as I read your posts that starts with the letter F. 

It's fear that holds you back...and by the way, shouldn't you be changing your name to "8yr vet" by now?

Priceless.  Can't wait for this Jones spin on this.  It's like he fell on his sword twice now.

A couple of thoughts/questions:

1. There are frequent comments that reps have more available to them outside of EJ. Could someone be specific on this; i.e., what exact products or services are available outside that are not within the firm, like wrap acct's, equity index annuities, separately managed accounts, other MF's or variable annuities or life insurance products, etc. The details are not clear to me from the posts. I'm interested in things which would be of greater benefit to the clients, and perhaps a detailed rationale why they are better for the clients.

2. Many former EJ reps complain about the voluntary activities they were asked to fulfill to help newer co-workers, but these former reps seem to devote a large amount of time here "helping" people they never met. Isn't this inconsistent?

3. A frequent theme is supposed GP greed, while it is a known fact that the firm has rejected multiple opportunities to sell or go public, in spite of great profit to the ownership. Doesn't this suggest money is not the only motivation for the ownership?

4. Isn't it striking that almost all posters here are independent? Perhaps the wirehouses and regional firms ask their reps not to spend their time on sites like this.

Vega74,

All you would have to do is spend ten minutes searching this forum and you would find everything you were looking for.  I do sense the sarcasm laden within your post--and perhaps rightfully so.  I'll respond briefly to each question.

1.  Products not available in Edward Jones:  Wrap accounts-both disc & non-disc, MANY VA products..esp those w/living benefits, Floating rate funds, Investment banking products, EIA's (although I never use them), Seperaltly managed account program is available but inferior to every other firms offerings I have seen.   Corp & muni inventory is also poor and limited.  Edward Jones aslo reduces payout to reps on C share offerings to 30% thereby encouraging reps to push A shares to every client.  Even if it is not right for that client, there is still a stromg incentive to sell A shares.  selling of preferred funds is encouraged through use of revenue sharing agreements which helps reps obtain larger bonuses.  No outside wholesalers are permitted to contact Jones brokers to explain their products unless that Jones broker drops a ticket or contacts them prior.  Preferred vendors have unlimited access to offices and attend all Jones functions.

2.  Pushing reps to help other reps and expecting it as norm is far differnt than someone spreading the truth about that firm on this forum who goes out of it's very way to hide from it.

3.  I believe that in the long run top GP's make more money keeping the firm private.  It also allows them far less disclosure.  They also like the control.  Much of this would change as a public firm.

4.  I'm not sure what wirehouses expect as I've never worked at one.  I also know most indy reps are also not afraid to speak their mind either.  Almost all posters being indy is a bit of an overstatement.  I'd guess a little over 50%.

There's more but I GTG...I'm sure other will jump in..but I'd suggest you read some threads.

[quote=vega74]

4. Isn't it striking that almost all posters here are independent? Perhaps the wirehouses and regional firms ask their reps not to spend their time on sites like this.

[/quote]

Reading the posts on this site, and following up with my own research and due diligence led me to go independant.  I wouldn't be surprised if that was true for others too.  That might explain the high percentage of ind. reps on this site.  They may not have started off ind when they first found it.

Like zacko said, read on. And follow the money........

[quote=vega74]

3. A frequent theme is supposed GP greed, while it is a known fact that the firm has rejected multiple opportunities to sell or go public, in spite of great profit to the ownership. Doesn't this suggest money is not the only motivation for the ownership?

[/quote]

Never discount human greed.  Most important thing I learned in sales is people care first and foremost about themselves.  There is no doubt that Jones is a cash cow for the few chosen to be GP's, and this is only possible because of the lack of disclosure to reps and clients.   Where does that $1400/mo for tech go anyway?  If you are still typing four letter commands into a dark screen, you should wonder this too.

VEGA

1)  They offer 4-5 funds and a couple of annuities.  Regardless of what these Reps tell you if you sell "other" products you will feel the heat.

2) LP and GP are dangled over the heads.  Just recently met a top producer who left Jones and he said they did this for years and when he decided to leave they then made the offer.  It just made him more angry.

3)  Does your firm pay bosses north of $1 million to be in charge of stock certificates received in the firm's vault?  Enough said although we could go on and on about this topic.

4)  Have no idea where you are going on this.

Let me ask you a question.  Why does Jones not offer true managed money alternatives?  You will see the theme to your questions and my question intersect at some point.

[quote=The Truth]

VEGA

1)  They offer 4-5 funds and a couple of annuities.  Regardless of what these Reps tell you if you sell "other" products you will feel the heat.

WoW!, what a "non'Truth" that is. In over a decade I have NEVER had anyone tell me what to sell. My top 10 funds are an equal mix of great preferred (CAIBX, AGTHX, FKINX) and non-preferred also.

2) LP and GP are dangled over the heads.  Just recently met a top producer who left Jones and he said they did this for years and when he decided to leave they then made the offer.  It just made him more angry.

Funny, LP is a prospectus item. They just "offered it to keep someone. You're so full of it.

3)  Does your firm pay bosses north of $1 million to be in charge of stock certificates received in the firm's vault?  Enough said although we could go on and on about this topic.

Hmm, that would be a rather small number of people. Likely not the "vault manager". Almost as good as the bonus your branch manager gets for pushing products on you.

4)  Have no idea where you are going on this.

Let me ask you a question.  Why does Jones not offer true managed money alternatives?  You will see the theme to your questions and my question intersect at some point.

Hmmm, maybe because SMA's are not the end all you seem to think they are!

I will always be a Guest here but maybe you need to become The Half-Truth !

Guest1,

1) Your knowledge of what is available outside the preferred group is extremely limited.  Just as mine was when I was at Jones.  While you are not told what to sell--you are both paid more (bonus) and have much better access to the preferred group of funds.

2)  The truth is right.  Top producing IR's are often made offres to stay when they leave.  None of this is ever talked about but it's true.  Jones often hires execs from other firms to work in STL and makes them a GP as a signing bonus.  EVen if they never had brokerage experience.  I thought you would have known that.

3) Not sure what is being discussed here.

4) Managed money is not the revenue sharing cash machine that comes from selling A shares.  Clients for the most part like the fee based approach much better when it's explained to them properly.  Jones is already making more money from revenue sharing than they ever could in fee based.  21bps from hartford and the firms keeps 90% of it)  IT WOULD be a huge conflict of interest to collect revenue sharing dollars ina fee based account and they won't give it up. 

You keep telling yourself that the Jones way is better.  You have to...because for you--it's the only choice you have.

Also, jones brokers are not series 65/66 which is a required step to offer fee based accounts. 

Could someone give me the rational behind preferred fund families beside the obvious rev sharing benefits to the firm.  I mean, how does this benefit the client?

Don't you know why?  Because those funds are leaders in every asset class which is why their A share focus just makes so much sense.

Hopefully my sarcasm is evident.

I foresee the battle with A share v C share or fee based coming:  Let me ask a couple questions.

1.  As an advisor, do you feel that for all you do for your clients and building and protecting their portfolio a fair compensation would be say....25 bps?

2.  What book of business would you rather own:

A book that holds 1000 clients, $80 million in AUM and a net of say $325,000.        &nb sp;        OR

A book with 200-250 clients, $50 million in AUM and a net of $300,000?

CS, you are saying what is best for the advisor, what about the clients?

Zack, I have had my 65/66 longer than you have. All Jones IRs will have it by June 2006. I meet with vendors all the time that are not "preferred" As to your LP offer outsaide of the offering period, well, I'll call you on that one as it doen not happen. But, you nor I can prove it. As to offering a GP to outside people? Yes, that happens. Michael Holmes being a great example. he did wonders for our firm. You guys do it too, only you call them options.

What makes you think I am "stuck" here? Deferred comp? Yes, I have a lot but paying taxes is a good thing if I find a better deal outside of Jones. (SSB offered to increase my "bonus" to cover the taxes if I came over.) So stuck? NO.

Guest 1 - I can’t believe you would ask such a dumb question.  You definitely don’t get it.  Tell me how having 1000 clients can in any way be in the best interest of your clients.  You can’t possibly service them like they deserve.  Having a book of only 200-250 clients gives you the ability to service the hell out of them.  You really kill me with that question.  And like I asked earlier on a different forum…how much of your business do you structure to make sure money comes due and you can reinvest for some more commission.  That is the product of your beast you affiliate with and the problem with their restraints on your business.  Wake up, my questions proposed are exactly for the best interest for the client.

I didn't know about the 65/66.  Is Jones an RIA then?  I'd imagine they would have to be.  My apologies.  I also had to take the series 9 and 10 in addition to the 65 ( I found out later that I could have received exemption for the 65--but no one ever told me)

SSB couldn't pay me enough to go there.  Nor could ML or any of the wires.  In the long run you can better serve your clients as an indy and actually make more money net with the higher payout.  It was always flatterring to get calls/offers from BOM's at the various wires.  Interesting that I haven't received ONE offer or call from anyone since having gone indy?  Funny how that happened...bc when I was at Jones I'd get a call every other month.

csmelix,  I'll bet Guest1 has over 1000 clients..unless he decides to help a new broker out and give him/her clients which is often encouraged at Jones.  I am back up to 825 acct's and approx 500 HH's.  I still accept anybody..and that may never change.   I do however agree with you 100% on a smaller fee based book is better on many levels than a larger comm based book.  Better for both the client and the advisor.  It's getting there that I have the problem with. 

CS, I don't recall answering your question. Only to say (quite typically I might add) is that the only thing you really harped about was YOU the advisor making money. You did not say a word about the clients best interest. but don't worry, Zacko is a much better writer and covered your mistake.

Zacko, I have less than 500 HH and slightly more than 300 HH. I agree with ML or SSB. Just pointed that out because someone insinuated that I was STUCK at Jones. 500 HH is too many and if you are accepting anyone as you say, what service can you honestly provide?

[quote=csmelnix]Guest 1 - I can't believe you would ask such a dumb question.  You definitely don't get it.  Tell me how having 1000 clients can in any way be in the best interest of your clients.  You can't possibly service them like they deserve.  Having a book of only 200-250 clients gives you the ability to service the hell out of them.  You really kill me with that question.  And like I asked earlier on a different forum....how much of your business do you structure to make sure money comes due and you can reinvest for some more commission.  That is the product of your beast you affiliate with and the problem with their restraints on your business.  Wake up, my questions proposed are exactly for the best interest for the client.

The "ideal book" of 200 - 300 clients is BS. There are very few Superbrokers, or retiring vets, who can actually play that game. This is an idea spread by losers who do inspirational seminars to our industry, and are completely out of touch with being a retail broker. Don't believe everything you read and are told.

Not all clients want service. Give me 2,000 $100,000 accounts of "c" share business (that's 2 milly a year), that only need a phone call, 3 times a year. These people don't want to get together. Don't get me wrong - I am all about servicing my clients & no, I don't really want 2,000 $100,000 accounts, but I can appreciate how this is valuable business. I will add this type of account to my book all day long.

The whole industry has gone so overboard on trying to be all things to all people. Yes, we have come a long way from pushing product, and the relationship is sacred. But, be independent thinking enough to recognize that, a big chunk of your clients see you as there broker, and nothing more. They don't want you at their daughters wedding, nor do they want to run their checking account and mortgage through you. Some....yes, and you might try to develop deeper relationships.....but having 1,000 clients that  get adequate service, and good solid investments is fine.

Anyone who has been doing this long enough, knows that you can kill yourself servicing a client, get them great returns.......and they will still dump your ass, when the time comes. 

Do your best, be ethical, don't get too attached, Love the clients that love you, and for god's sake - don't be ignorant enough to think that a $100,000 account (that does not take up a ton of time) kickin you $1,000 a year in fees....is not good business...it is!! There are million dollar producers everywhere, with $500,000 accounts that do $175 in Production - now that's crap. 

[/quote]

A book of 200-250 clients with an average account size of 200k is unrealalistic?  Not if you have focus, an ability to market to such a niche and be persistent in your approach.  What's BS is just throwing up your hands and saying it can't be done. 

By the way, was curious just to pose the question to see the thoughts.  I for one don't want to 1000 clients because I don't want the tail wagging the dog.  I am sure the business model is pretty dependent on the demographics of one's area but to say it's impractable is moronic. 

Preferred Funds and why?

There are numerous reasons why a firm would pursue preferred funds that go well beyond profit sharing and though most on this board will say I'm full of it, Jones would probably continue to have preferred funds even without profit sharing.  The logic is simple.  No broker can be an expert on everything.  By using preferred funds, the sales force can focus on learning perhaps 200 funds in the preferred families rather than be out there just listening to wholesalers from 200 families showing them thousands of funds. 

Even the best brokers on this forum will tell you that they focus on a handful of funds primarily because they don't have time to work hundreds.

Secondly, in Jones' case is the fact that the fund families sold by Edward Jones are researched constantly by a Product Review department that keeps check on them.  Believe it or not, Product Review actually has in numerous cases declared specific funds even within those families to be 'non-preferred'.  There were numerous internet funds in the late 90's that Product Review restricted as they felt like they were not in the best interest of our base clients even though there was tremendous pressure from the preferred families.

Thirdly,  We all learned to sell a mutual fund at some point...Imagine the problems that Jones would encounter if it did not use preferred funds in training and allowed each class to just pick one at random.  Training would be a nightmare.

Fourth: Operationally, it is a good idea for any large brokerage to focus their efforts on funds that are willing to cooperate with the Service and Operations departments of large firms.

Fifth:  Control over Wholesalers activities and the ability to oversee that those wholesalers who practice unethically are disallowed in our system.

Sixth:  Customer information from funds.  Sure is a lot easier to get cost basis info and other information from a preferred fund.

I could go on and on, but that gives you some of the rational for preferred funds that goes well beyond profit sharing.

Truth is, just about every broker I know has preferred funds.

Guest1,

You must have done at least one if not two Goodknight programs. 

My top 200 HH's get outstanding service and I try to stay in touch with the others once or twice a year.  I just have never been one to set minimums as such.  I have fired 500k clients and stayed late to meet with someone who has 50k because they needed my help and I liked them.  They never get ignored or mistreated at my office.  I am very familiar with the 80/20 rule and what all the "business experts" tell me I should do.  Maybe one day I'll hire a broker who will assist me in servicing those clients....but maybe not.  I did leave about 6-8 million back at Jones which was nearly all small accts. 

I did forget I have about 100 SIMPLE IRA participants which were included in the 500HH's.  SO, it's prob closer to 400HH.

Zacko,

Great comments - the 80/20 rule is a great point when considering my earlier statement on the 200-250 clients v the 1000 +.  Take your 1000 client book and I will bet my left *&$ that 80% of your production comes from roughly 20% of your clients - you do the math and there's your A clients of roughly 200 or accounts.  The comments guest 1 makes about money and all I comment about is my benefit and not the advisor is just stupid.  When you have big brother managing your margins for you, it's a luxury you can afford.  But when you own your own business you actually have to plan to run it and you have control of your margins which is why indy is such a better value proposition for advisors that have the ownership mentality.  The result translates over to a better value for the client as well.  I can actually build a real plan for my clients here and can measure how well they are or aren't doing.  I actually have software to measure performance toward achieving their goals that show true metrics.   I am happy to say it's much more detailed and incorporates a greater deal of variables than the old pyramid and % of the classes with in does at Jones.  I can show rates of return across many different time parameters, risk adjusted returns, v over 35 benchmarks, realized gains/losses and on and on and on...my clients walk away with a true picture of performance and how well their plan the WE put together is working for them.

When you don't have to have over 1000 clients (I do mean HH) to grow your business you can actually spend the time to do this and bring real value to your clients - that's what it's about. 

[quote=csmelnix]

Zacko,

Great comments - the 80/20 rule is a great point when considering my earlier statement on the 200-250 clients v the 1000 +.  Take your 1000 client book and I will bet my left *&$ that 80% of your production comes from roughly 20% of your clients - you do the math and there's your A clients of roughly 200 or so accounts.  The comments guest 1 makes about money and all I comment about is my benefit and not the client is just stupid.  When you have big brother managing your margins for you, it's a luxury you can afford.  But when you own your own business you actually have to plan to run it and you have control of your margins which is why indy is such a better value proposition for advisors that have the ownership mentality.  The result translates over to a better value for the client as well.  I can actually build a real plan for my clients here and can measure how well they are or aren't doing.  I actually have software to measure performance toward achieving their goals that show true metrics.   I am happy to say it's much more detailed and incorporates a greater deal of variables than the old pyramid and % of the classes with in does at Jones.  I can show rates of return across many different time parameters, risk adjusted returns, v over 35 benchmarks, realized gains/losses and on and on and on...my clients walk away with a true picture of performance and how well their plan the WE put together is working for them.

When you don't have to have over 1000 clients (I do mean HH) to grow your business you can actually spend the time to do this and bring real value to your clients - that's what it's about. 

It's about fixing my typo's too.

[quote=proudlp]

Preferred Funds and why?

Secondly, in Jones' case is the fact that the fund families sold by Edward Jones are researched constantly by a Product Review department that keeps check on them. LOL Believe it or not, Product Review actually has in numerous cases declared specific funds even within those families to be 'non-preferred'.  There were numerous internet funds in the late 90's that Product Review restricted as they felt like they were not in the best interest of our base clients (cough...VOYAGER... New Century...) even though there was tremendous pressure from the preferred families.

[/quote]

Oh. Thanks

Now, how does a fund comany get on this list?  And once on what are the criteria for getting removed?

Proudlp,

Do you realize that every one of your reasons for defending preferred funds, relates to a benefit for Jones. Ease of training, Flow through your back office and being overburdened by too many choices?????? These are the worst reasons to have limited investment choices, and not very client centric..........In fact it might border on malpractice.

I have to add, re-read proudlp's defense on prefered funds, and you will find the answer to the often asked question......"Why do so many ex-Jonesers bad mouth the Company."?

If your research department truly filters out funds.....how the hell have Putnam, Federated, Hartford and Goldman kept there membership. There are only about 50 other fund families out there that offer more diversity in size - style and sector, with better fees and track records.

Jones Monitors the wholesalers activities for ethical behavior!!!!!.........excuse me I had to wipe off my screen, because I threw up!!!!! Do you really believe the crap that your spewing?????

Moneyadvisor

Beautiful!  Summoned it up beautifully.  You have to ask - who are you building a business for yourself or the home office.  You want to see real manager reviews done, look at what LPL's research department does on that end - value added that costs .10 cents on the dollar v .62 cents., and it crosses the spectrum of fund families - that's right more than 7.  They even go as far as building out recommended asset allocation models and recommended funds, some that are even....NO LOADS and don't provide assistance to their advisors or their firm.  That sounds non-bias to me and a costs that is hard to argue.

MA - I loved your comments.

I have to agree with cs and ma here.  My experience at LPL is the same.  It seems to me that to truly justify A share pricing and limited fund families, that only the families with the broadest offerings and best track record should be offered.  I generally like the company, but I don't think Lord Abbett fits the criteria that best suits investors, when it comes to A shares, breakpoints and diversification.

When Hartford and Goldman were added as basically new fund companies with fairly limited offerings, how did Product Review rationalize that.  The only one I can think of is the companies willingness to pay for shelf space, because there are a lot of other companies that seem more qualified.  Can't believe it took as long as it did to bring on Franklin Templeton.

BTW, I have been told by wholesalers now that they were only allowed to call on IR's if the broker dropped a ticket first, unless the wholesaler was from a preferred fund family.  So the theory that IR's truly have access to other fund families is flawed at best.

Is it true that in order to enroll in a managed account at EDJ that it has to be $500k or larger?  I thought I heard that somewhere and didn’t even know they had this as an option.

Guess you told me...

There is a complete untruth here though...If a wholesaler was told they could only call on an IR after their first ticket, this was not told to them by anyone in the home office at Jones.  Absolutely untrue...without a doubt.   This could have been the case with annuities as there are appointment issues at play there (I don't know about that one), but for Mutual Funds it is absolutely unequivocly untrue.  I don't doubt that there are wholesalers who have been told by their own firms things like that, but it did not come from anyone at Jones.  I can say that for sure and without question.

As far as preferred funds being a benefit to Jones.  Yup.  They are. 

They are for just about every company.  MA, do you claim to not have any 'preferred funds' in your portfolio?  I know nothing about you, but I'll bet your mutual funds are about 75% in 10 or fewer funds?  Let's be clear.  You may not like the preferred funds of Jones, but the idea of having preferred funds is global to all of us.

Exdrone -

Great point.....I want to like Lord Abbett, My wholesaler is a great guy, but there are many other funds who fill the spaces better.

BR,

That was the deal when I was at Jones...$500,000 was the bogey, and the wrap account was the best kept secret at the company. Nobody knew about it. I'm guessing just in time training would probably have pulled the curtain aside in year 10 or so.  

proudlp,

Please understand, I am not trying to be hostile towards you, I don't know you either, and you are just defending your firm...admirable.

Yes, I have a matrix of funds I use...they consist of American, ML, MFS, Van Kampen, Jennison Dryden, Calamos, Scudder, Blackrock, Pioneer......a few others that pop up, and fall off. I do my research based on quartile rankings, past performance, management tenure, how the 2000- 2002 blood bath was handled, potential for future growth, and a host of other metricks - these are my preferred funds. The difference is,........The seven or eight funds Jones uses, don't offer the top managers in some very important spaces, and sectors that should be overweighted. And.........if you do use a fund because they are the best in that space, but they are not on the Jones list, you get a smaller payout (Conflict of interest - ripped right from the AMEX advisors playbook). OK....Growth Fund of America, is a very good Lg. Growth play.....I need more than one Lg. cap Growth fund. International, utilities, financials, natural resources.......There are so many awesome opportunities to make money for clients in these areas, and The Jones Preferreds just don't give you the best exposure. 

I love the story..... but the Bartow days of being a multi million dollar producer using only ICA and WAMUT, are not going to win you competitive situations. And when Lg. value lays dormant for an extended period of time 2- 5 years, where will you grab yield, clients will be looking for it.  I have a family member who has every cent in Growth fund of America (not a client) He just keeps adding to it.....he will be rewarded, probably...in the comming 24 months, but think of all the money he left on the table in the last 5 years.  

[quote=proudlp]

Guess you told me...

There is a complete untruth here though...If a wholesaler was told they could only call on an IR after their first ticket, this was not told to them by anyone in the home office at Jones.  Absolutely untrue...without a doubt.   This could have been the case with annuities as there are appointment issues at play there (I don't know about that one), but for Mutual Funds it is absolutely unequivocly untrue.  I don't doubt that there are wholesalers who have been told by their own firms things like that, but it did not come from anyone at Jones.  I can say that for sure and without question.

[/quote]

How can you possibly know this unless you are in prod revew, mf marketing or a gp at jones?  You cant.  You just repeat it on blind faith because the bosses tell you so.  Cite something that validates your statement.  Just because you believe it doesn't make it true.

[quote=moneyadvisor]

proudlp,

Please understand, I am not trying to be hostile towards you, I don't know you either, and you are just defending your firm...admirable.

[/quote]

If you call yourself proudlp on this site, you deserve a little hostility.

I can tell you that I haven’t written my first ticket and I get called buy fund guys all the time

I am also working with a training with a Jones broker who uses the hell
out of Calamos. I’ve been doing my research on them and I intend to do
so as well.

Great fund…get used to the lower payout,…their in lies the rub.

As long as it gets rubbed I’m fine.

Back to the original topic......

There was something about "potential risk" in being an indy vs working for Jones in that memo. 

It referred to "costly E&O insurance" that indys have to purchase vs a firm like Jones standing behind you all the way.    Yeah, I believe that one....

Thoughts on risk?

My E&O runs about $150/month.  I don’t consider that “costly”.

I was told the same thing.  Half-truths and lies shouldn't deter someone from investigating on their own what's it's REALLY like on the other side of the fence.

I met Bartow once. He was very successful but I gotta admit... I would never have opened an account with that little dude if he showed up at my trailer...

JS.

I too was at a Bartow event. If his story is true (which I actually do believe), the guy is a legend, and a hell of a hardworker. But, I think that worked 15- 20 years ago. (door knocking the world, in bupkis town), I think his principles, and keep to basics  is applicable today.

E&O will run about the same wherever you go, give or take a few bucks. 

The whole Grass is Greener is fear-mongering. 

Jones is great for some people and that's fantastic - more power to ya if it's the best fit.  I do think that more and more are starting to sober up from their weekend kool-aid binge and understanding that for their more sophisticated clients, there are sometimes better alternatives (for those that desire a fee-based business).  Why lose prospect after prospect to the competition because of an inferior platform?

BR - No way on the E&O not these days.  There's a lot of hidden costs in the E&O that you really have to look at.  There is also a great disparity between some firms and the costs.  Some of the issues to consider are who is underwriting the policy? How is the advisor covered?  What are the deductibles?  What is covered and what is not?

Examples - some independents don't have enough revenue to pay for or get preferred pricing on policies and self insure.  Big issue, for example if a firm only has excess net capital of $4-5 million and they self insure; they are a fine away from going out of business.  Other concerns are the ability to have coverage through your b/d if you are doing RIA business under your own RIA or doing OBA directly - i.e. insurance business away from your b/d.  There are increasing changes here to keep an eye on.  Some firms charge around a $150 or so a month while others charge $350 plus and cover less.  Keys to consider are issues I raised above, the costs and deductible.  Inferior coverage is a true sign of a broker dealer that lacks the infrastructure to support your business.

I’m sure what you say is accurate, cs, but I took Broker Recruit’s comments to mean the differences between the big houses…LPL, RayJay, Commonwealth, etc.

[quote=moneyadvisor]

JS.

I too was at a Bartow event. If his story is true (which I actually do believe), the guy is a legend, and a hell of a hardworker. But, I think that worked 15- 20 years ago. (door knocking the world, in bupkis town), I think his principles, and keep to basics  is applicable today.

[/quote]

Moneyadvisor,

To Bartow's values would work in any market condition, he only taught one way, straight ahead........Fact Find, fine the need, fill the need, close, close, close as long as people need slaespeople to sell them, Tom's systems will keep on working .........I owe him a lot, he helped my business explode, his leaving was very much a factor in my leaving, the day he left Edward Jones the music died at Edward Jones, and it's never been the same..........Tom was a Players Coach, not a set on his ass non-performer like 3 Mil and weddle Edj just keeps picking the wrong guy 

Player- Who was the right guy?

Player -

I'm a Big Bartow fan, I share his philosophies(?). Everyone can learn from this guy. And many attribute their success to him.

I was at a meeting where Bartow "presented" his sales methods to us.

I thought he was personally an arrogant rude little prick.  Maybe if he didn't come off as such an a-hole in person, his philosophy would have been more acceptable to me.   He stressed making phone calls to clients and prospects and spend no more than 20 seconds on each call.   Force a product on the call and then get off the phone if in 20 seconds they weren't going to buy. He stood over us and chanted 'close close close'.  Sorry not my style or the style of my clients.  I basically called on people that I wanted to blow up so I wouldn't waste my good prospects.

I have heard about Bartow’s rantings. The time I saw him, he was very watered down, and showed more humility than I expected. But, I still took away some good points. There are some real arrogant blowhards on the circuit, with books to sell and internet sites. They love to hear themselves talk. I find very little originality, or creativity. or real world applicability in there messages.  

Thanks, Starka.  I was speaking of the larger indy firms, not RIAs or any sort of alternative.  RJ, for example, is approximately $190 on the indy side.  Another indy I work with is $150.  Still others are going to be slightly higher or slightly lower.  RIAs or a different animal altogether and you will typically see significantly higher rates.

Starka and BR - understand on the bigger indy's and agree 100% - all costs really with the bigger ones will all be close to each other; payouts, ticket charges, e&o etc.. absolutely.  However, don't include commonwealth in the e&o argument - the example I gave on self insurance and a fine away from being out of business was that of Commonwealth.  They self insure and only have excess net cap. around 5-6 million.

[quote=babbling looney]

I was at a meeting where Bartow "presented" his sales methods to us.

... Sorry not my style or the style of my clients.  I basically called on people that I wanted to blow up so I wouldn't waste my good prospects.

[/quote]

Same here! 

For those of you who have never had the Tom Bartow experience...

One of his famous working styles was to "never put the phone down", during a training session, one of my friends kept putting his phone down after each call.  Repeatedly, he told him in a VERY loud fashion "don't put the phone down".  After about the 3rd time, he stopped everyone, and taped this brokers hand to the handset.

Just one of many...

[quote=exEJIR

[/quote]

Same here! 

For those of you who have never had the Tom Bartow experience...

One of his famous working styles was to "never put the phone down", during a training session, one of my friends kept putting his phone down after each call.  Repeatedly, he told him in a VERY loud fashion "don't put the phone down".  After about the 3rd time, he stopped everyone, and taped this brokers hand to the handset.

Just one of many...

[/quote]

Ya, but I bet the guy did not put the phone down and I bet he made more calls....

I went to one Bartow session after he was with American funds.  Thought it was great.  Simple put your head down and march approach to doing the business.  Never felt like I had to be rude to prospects or clients.  Liked the blunt style and the impression it left with the person on the other end of the phone.  I am serious and am only here to do serious business.

The impression it left on the other end of the phone to my clients and prospects was:    "WTF happened to you? Have you been taken over by aliens? Don't pressure me! and if you want an answer right this second it is NO."

Not the impression that I usually give  or want I want to leave my former prospects and former clients with.

If you only want to push product, that's great.  But I prefer to make my clients feel like they are someone, not just another number.

Sure, it may cut down on the contacts per day, but they are much better contacts.

I attended a session after he moved to AF, also.  And he was NOWHERE nearly as intense as when he was @EDJ.

I liked Tom Bartow..............but then again I like total honesty....When Tom Bartow left Jones the Music Died forever, the Firm became a soft bunch of ass kissers, liars & Politicians, back stabbers & hypocrites that can't tell anything straight!  For two years they told IR's when the SEC was investigating their Home Office "We did nothing wrong" We have nothing to HIDE! The when the FINES came they said "The "SEC" is just picking on us becasue we are the "BEST SALES FORCE" in the "INDUSTRY"!    Then why are so many good producers leaving? 

We've been around longer than the GREAT DEPRESSION, and that isn't true either........................

Just look at the Managing General Partners, could any of the last two, Dougie or Jimmy really make it in todays market place as a Broker, maybe in the 60's or 70's, but not today?  

THEY COULDN'T!

Player,



You should change your screan name to hater.



BPD

[quote=BigPayDay]Player,

You should change your screan name to hater.

BPD[/quote]

BigPayDay

The " TRUTH " SUCKS DOENS'T IT?

[quote=Player]

[quote=BigPayDay]Player,

You should change your screan name to hater.

BPD[/quote]

BigPayDay

The " TRUTH " SUCKS DOENS'T IT?

[/quote]

I AM HAVING WAY TOO MUCH FUN WITH BigPayDay it should have read:

The "TRUTH"  SUCKS, DOESN'T IT.....jonser  You can't handle this can you?

Player,

What's your favorite platform at your anonimous firm?

TA

[quote=BigPayDay]Player,

You should change your screan name to hater.

BPD[/quote]

You should learn to spell "SCREEN"

[quote=The Answer]

Player,

What’s your favorite platform at your anonimous firm?

TA

[quote=The Answer]

Player,

What's your favorite platform at your anonimous firm?

TA

[/quote]

You jones boys aren't big on correct spelling, are you?

ANONYMOUS

Then again, I guess they don't really require you to be literate as part of joining 'the world's greatest sales force'.

Joe,



Regardless of my spelling the “player” has not let all of us know what is favorite platform is. Maybe after being fired by Jones “player” is not in the investment business anymore and just playing the part.



BPD

[quote=BigPayDay]Joe,

Regardless of my spelling the "player" has not let all of us know what is favorite platform is. Maybe after being fired by Jones "player" is not in the investment business anymore and just playing the part.

BPD[/quote]

Does playing the part include all his *&!# emoticons?

Well you've asked the question.  Now he has the chance to Answer.

Are you and The Answer one in the same?