Going Indy to LPL

Your not a writer for Yachting anymore?

You are a 1099 and the support has been pretty good…a little slower during tax season but well above what I was used to with my previous B/D.  Read the old thread on here somewhere called Raymond James vs. LPL, learn all you can quickly, do a due diligence trip to the home office, and jump this summer during slow season.  What else you wanna know?

Dudley:   I left EDJ years ago and had a great relationship with the company just like you.  I was successful, had excellent relationships "I thought" with everyone.  Did the visiting vet thing, worked with new trainees in St Louis, did call sessions in my office and on and on.  Started from scratch out of my house until I got an office and was green for my entire five years except for about a four month period of time during my first year. 

When I left I even sent thank you notes to all the people who helped me through the years.  With that said, they got as nasty as can be when I left. They tried to get a TRO, they lied to my clients about me, they did every single thing they could to ruin my business when I left.  I am not joking when I say I was even put on a witness stand and cross examined by two of their attornies.  Thankfully I had strong legal support on my side.  So do not think that just because all is good now that things wont change when you leave.  Just protect yourself the best you can and prepare for the worst even though it is likely things wont be as bad for you when you leave.

A very promenent GPs relative took over my office and my RL was and still is a huge prick.  That is my reasoning behind my situation which is different than yours.  But just beware. You will be going to war for your clients and do not expect them to be honorable.  COUNT ON THEM LYING TO YOUR CLIENTS ABOUT EVERYTHING FROM YOUR INTEGRETY TO YOUR REASON FOR LEAVING.  COUNT ON IT. 

Prep your clients and be ready.  I hope you take every dime out of your office when you leave.  Best of luck!        

For those who may have left Jones in the last year or so, what kinds of grief have you gotten from Jones (non-compete threats, TRO, etc.)?  Aside from the grief of the temporary rep calling clients and trying to sell them Putnam Voyager, of course.

Any thoughts from anyone else?

if you go indy go to Commonwealth.

[quote=working capital]

if you go indy go to Commonwealth.

[/quote]

Why them instead of LPL or one of the others?

[quote=Dudley Dawson]Any thoughts from anyone else?[/quote]

There are alot of good people who work at Jones but when you leave you will see the evil that comes out of the greedy pricks (especially the GP's). I left 2 years ago and opened up an indy office directly across the street from my Jones office and when the xfer broker contacted my customers they would say we don't know were he is or were he went but your money is safe here. A very unprofessional group of people, also you won't realize what is really going on at Jones until you leave. Good luck.......

F Ted and the drones

I think it would be most important to match your new B/D to the type of practice and business you want to run.  There are a dozen good indy b/d out there, but you need to do a good job breaking down your revenue (fee based, commissions, life, annuity) and see which b/d's have the most support for the line of work you do the most of.  Your answer may be LPL, but I would do a lot of investigating first. 

And don't tell yourself that you will mold your practice to fit your new indy b/d.  That kinda defeats the purpose of going indy.  Stick to what your good at, but find a higher payout and support for that type of business.

I left EDJ 6 months ago and had a great relationship with the company just like you.  I was successful, had excellent relationships "I thought" with everyone.  Did the visiting vet thing, worked with new trainees in St Louis, did call sessions in my office and on and on.  I started from scratch.  I recruited 17 people to Edward Jones in my 8 years at the firm. 

The problem came when I left.  Jones held my U-5 for 30 days.  They lied to my clients.  They said that "He had some problems with the IRS and that's why we had to let him go."  They told my clients that, "Edward Jones was an ethical company and he did something unethical and that's why we had to let him go."  The RL and the Area Leader lied to the rest of the region.  They lied to my BOA to try and keep her at EDJ.  They lied to the transitional rep who came into replace me. 

I had to get an attorney to write a "cease and desist" letter to the IR,RL, and Area Leader.   Once the letter went out to the individuals involved; the lying stopped. 

It was unfortunate that they had to stoop to such unprofessional tactics to try and keep the clients at Jones. 

So to put it bluntly, Jones purposely withheld my U-5 for 30 days.  They lied to my clients and peers.  They were slapped with a cease and desist and they did. 

My advice, when you go to LPL, is to accept the fact that they will say and do anything to keep the assets at Jones.  In my case they failed miserably.  I have transferred 72% of my assets in 6 months.  I have made more money in 6 months than 10 months at Jones.  My BOA that came with me loves where she works and is excited that she is allowed to use email to answer client questions.  I also put my office 2 steps away from the Edward Jones Office I was in.  My clients did business with me not with Edward Jones. 

I don’t even know Holder and I detest the little weasel.  I hope you make his legal life miserable someday.

[quote=spikedkoolaid]

I left EDJ 6 months ago and had a great relationship with the company just like you.  I was successful, had excellent relationships “I thought” with everyone.  Did the visiting vet thing, worked with new trainees in St Louis, did call sessions in my office and on and on.  I started from scratch.  I recruited 17 people to Edward Jones in my 8 years at the firm. 

The problem came when I left.  Jones held my U-5 for 30 days.  They lied to my clients.  They said that "He had some problems with the IRS and that's why we had to let him go."  They told my clients that, "Edward Jones was an ethical company and he did something unethical and that's why we had to let him go."  The RL and the Area Leader lied to the rest of the region.  They lied to my BOA to try and keep her at EDJ.  They lied to the transitional rep who came into replace me. 

I had to get an attorney to write a "cease and desist" letter to the IR,RL, and Area Leader.   Once the letter went out to the individuals involved; the lying stopped. 

It was unfortunate that they had to stoop to such unprofessional tactics to try and keep the clients at Jones. 

So to put it bluntly, Jones purposely withheld my U-5 for 30 days.  They lied to my clients and peers.  They were slapped with a cease and desist and they did. 

My advice, when you go to LPL, is to accept the fact that they will say and do anything to keep the assets at Jones.  In my case they failed miserably.  I have transferred 72% of my assets in 6 months.  I have made more money in 6 months than 10 months at Jones.  My BOA that came with me loves where she works and is excited that she is allowed to use email to answer client questions.  I also put my office 2 steps away from the Edward Jones Office I was in.  My clients did business with me not with Edward Jones. 

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=spikedkoolaid]

I left EDJ 6 months ago and had a great relationship with the company just like you.  I was successful, had excellent relationships "I thought" with everyone.  Did the visiting vet thing, worked with new trainees in St Louis, did call sessions in my office and on and on.  I started from scratch.  I recruited 17 people to Edward Jones in my 8 years at the firm. 

The problem came when I left.  Jones held my U-5 for 30 days.  They lied to my clients.  They said that "He had some problems with the IRS and that's why we had to let him go."  They told my clients that, "Edward Jones was an ethical company and he did something unethical and that's why we had to let him go."  The RL and the Area Leader lied to the rest of the region.  They lied to my BOA to try and keep her at EDJ.  They lied to the transitional rep who came into replace me. 

I had to get an attorney to write a "cease and desist" letter to the IR,RL, and Area Leader.   Once the letter went out to the individuals involved; the lying stopped. 

It was unfortunate that they had to stoop to such unprofessional tactics to try and keep the clients at Jones. 

So to put it bluntly, Jones purposely withheld my U-5 for 30 days.  They lied to my clients and peers.  They were slapped with a cease and desist and they did. 

My advice, when you go to LPL, is to accept the fact that they will say and do anything to keep the assets at Jones.  In my case they failed miserably.  I have transferred 72% of my assets in 6 months.  I have made more money in 6 months than 10 months at Jones.  My BOA that came with me loves where she works and is excited that she is allowed to use email to answer client questions.  I also put my office 2 steps away from the Edward Jones Office I was in.  My clients did business with me not with Edward Jones. 

[/quote]

Hey spiked Rock ON!  I hate the whole cult mentality....sounds like you hardly need my help, but if there's anything I can do PM me, ok?

Joe
[/quote]

If they were saying things like, "He had an IRS problem and we had to let him go" you should sue them.

I rather doubt it was that flagrant.  I suspect that the calls were no more specific than, "We had to let him go, and will miss him.  He is a very pleasant fellow."

Nothing specific but the phrase "We had to let him go" can be interpreted as "for cause" or "for his own good."

As for holding your U-5 for thirty days--the NASD allows thirty days and a lot of firms take thirty days.  There should be no problem with you continuing your business while the paperwork crosses in the mail.

Regarding the U-5.  Every broker who ever transitions out of a firm for any reason should request that the previous employer mail them a copy of the U-5 to their home address.  You need to know what was given as your reason for leaving and try to get it changed if it has the slightest tone of negativity to it.

Unless you really are a sleazeball you'll find a former employer is quite friendly with you--we never know when our paths will cross again and a favor might be needed.  It never pays to make enemies.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

If they were saying things like, "He had an IRS problem and we had to let him go" you should sue them.

I rather doubt it was that flagrant.  I suspect that the calls were no more specific than, "We had to let him go, and will miss him.  He is a very pleasant fellow."

Nothing specific but the phrase "We had to let him go" can be interpreted as "for cause" or "for his own good."

As for holding your U-5 for thirty days--the NASD allows thirty days and a lot of firms take thirty days.  There should be no problem with you continuing your business while the paperwork crosses in the mail.

Regarding the U-5.  Every broker who ever transitions out of a firm for any reason should request that the previous employer mail them a copy of the U-5 to their home address.  You need to know what was given as your reason for leaving and try to get it changed if it has the slightest tone of negativity to it.

Unless you really are a sleazeball you'll find a former employer is quite friendly with you--we never know when our paths will cross again and a favor might be needed.  It never pays to make enemies.

[/quote]

NASD Newbie,

Have you ever worked for ej and left them for another firm?

You've been proven wrong about legal actions before so what makes you an expert in this situation.  You are absolutely cluesless about "the only firm that does what's in the customer's best interest" is capable of doing to it's ex brokers.

If you would only read some of the previous posts by those of us on the "dark-side" (ex-ejers) you'd realize that what you responded to very true.  you are a blow hard in the first degree. go play dressup with your little mutt and leave retail matters to the guysa in the trenches, wtf do you know being in the ivory tower as you state. Go start rumors on GOOG so you can play your precious options.... don't comment on what you have absolutely NO clue about the difference between your pal Bachmann may state and what truely happens....

Mr. Newbie,

First of all,

In California, we are not allowed to record someone's phone conversations without their permission.  I was able to record the Investment Representative on the phone with one of my former clients saying the exact words I wrote in my previous post.  I wouldn't have believed it either until I heard it come from her mouth.  I was incensed and that's why we had to get a "cease and desist" against Jones.

The reason I don't think I will sue Jones is my attorney says you have to prove that I had a loss of income because of what they told clients about me.  The problem with that is, my clients saw through the BS and I have actually increased my pay by going to LPL.

You are right about the NASD allowing 30 days for transferrance.  But I think it's pretty unprofessional after I recruited 17 IR's to that firm.  Generated $400,000 in profit over the past 8 years.  I did nothing but help that firm grow.  I will now make sure that those people I recruited see the ACTUAL Jones.  I also have a goal to expose the dirty tactics that a "CLEAN" firm allows to go on behind the scenes. 

This is the forum I have chosen to air those grievances.  It's been therapeutic for me.  I look forward to the one year mark when my non-compete is lifted.  I have decided to play by the rules on my end because Jones chose not to.
 

I have no doubt that Jones brokers were calling this soul's clients in an attempt to keep them.

What I am saying is they did not say he had issues with the IRS or anything else that could be libelous.

I am not an attorney, but I doubt that you have to prove a loss of income to win a libel case--a loss of reputation would be enough.

Isn't it convenient to claim that you heard it yourself, apparently because you were listening in on a phone call to a client.  It would be fun to know exactly how that happened.

Did you just happen to be at a client's home or office when a Jones broker called, and that Jones broker just happened to be the rogue broker type who would say something like you had IRS problems shortly after the client was motioning for you to pick up the phone and listen in.

Seems less plausible than getting hit by ligtening on a clear day.

Jones would not have the great reputation with clients and the ten thousand or so brokers who are very happy there if even 10% of the crap you whiners who failed there spew on this forum.

Or maybe one of the clients felt duty bound to let him know what was being said about him.

You're still a moron, Putsy.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

I have no doubt that Jones brokers were calling this soul's clients in an attempt to keep them.

What I am saying is they did not say he had issues with the IRS or anything else that could be libelous.

I am not an attorney, but I doubt that you have to prove a loss of income to win a libel case--a loss of reputation would be enough.

Isn't it convenient to claim that you heard it yourself, apparently because you were listening in on a phone call to a client.  It would be fun to know exactly how that happened.

Did you just happen to be at a client's home or office when a Jones broker called, and that Jones broker just happened to be the rogue broker type who would say something like you had IRS problems shortly after the client was motioning for you to pick up the phone and listen in.

Seems less plausible than getting hit by ligtening on a clear day.

Jones would not have the great reputation with clients and the ten thousand or so brokers who are very happy there if even 10% of the crap you whiners who failed there spew on this forum.

[/quote]

that right newbie you know everything as you know bachmann.

ej would NEEEVERR stoop to what us "dark-siders" claim.

Dudley Dawson,

    To address one of your concerns, rumor has it a couple fee based platforms are being considered at Jones other than the limited SMA's they have now.

    The first considered is a ETF platform with a 1% wrap.  The second is a prefered fund platform with the load waved, the 12b-1 waved and a 1% wrap. 

    Patience is a virtue.

Ok Newbie,

You have no clue.  I had 6 clients ask me point blank why I left.  I told them and then they said, "That's not what she told me."  Then I said what did she tell you.  To a person they said, "He had some problems with the IRS."

I then arranged a conference call with one of my friends from college  I told him to ask her, "Why did SpikedKoolAid Leave?"  She then opened her big mouth and said, "He did something unethical and Edward Jones is an ethical firm and that's why we had to let him go."  How can I make this S^#$ up?!

From the attorneys I've spoke with they all told me that you have to prove that there has been monetary damage and then you can receive a monetary settlement. 

As for reputation,  I built the Edward Jones brand and reputation in my town.  My reputation has never been better because my clients and colleagues (CPA's, Attorneys) in my town respect me for the change I've made even in the face of Jones trying to do everything to keep the clients. 

I forgot that Jones flew Egghead(Skranka) out to my town.  They spent $10,000 to have him run a seminar.  17 people showed up for a free dinner.  There were more IR's there than prospective clients/former clients in the audience.  In 8 years of building a $500,000 branch I never even got a phone call from Egghead and then when I leave they try and fly him out to put out the fire. 

It has been almost a contest to see how quickly they can help me systematically close the office that I built for Edward Jones.  They keep telling the clients that they referred to me to run over to SpikedKoolAid and transfer their account. 

$10,000 for a seminar?  Sorry this whole story of yours doesn't meet the smell-o-meter test.

You know as well as I do that what happened was your clients got a phone call from a Jones broker--that that broker urged them to stay, but did not slur your reputation.  Other brokers would not engage in stuff like that because they often expect to leave themselves and would not want it done to them.

There seems to be enough things about Jones to whine about without having to make up things.

If you did not get your clients to move with you they felt more comfortable with Jones than they do with you.  You should go look in the mirror and do some self examination rather than wasting time on an internet forum trying to pretend your departure actually registered in St. Louis.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

$10,000 for a seminar?  Sorry this whole story of yours doesn't meet the smell-o-meter test.

You know as well as I do that what happened was your clients got a phone call from a Jones broker--that that broker urged them to stay, but did not slur your reputation.  Other brokers would not engage in stuff like that because they often expect to leave themselves and would not want it done to them.

There seems to be enough things about Jones to whine about without having to make up things.

If you did not get your clients to move with you they felt more comfortable with Jones than they do with you.  You should go look in the mirror and do some self examination rather than wasting time on an internet forum trying to pretend your departure actually registered in St. Louis.

[/quote]

putsy,

on the subject of ej you are absolutely clueless as to how low stl will go.  If the "branch" was large enough, 10K for a seminar with o.h. and dinner is not unconceivable.  but then you know everything

Let the wrath of the "dark siders" commence.

[quote=xej1984]

on the subject of ej you are absolutely clueless as to how low stl will go.

[/quote]

Are you not the nimrod who believes that I am an EJ executive, here to spout the company line?

Now you're saying that I am absolutely clueless?

$10,000 for dinner for 17 would be close to $600 per head.  Does that make sense to you--that a firm would spend $600 per head to pitch their products to people looking for sound financial planning advice?

I know, I know--there are other expenses.  A plane ticket and a hotel room for a couple of people.

OK, let's make it $450 per person--does that make sense?  That's the kind of money that is spent on entertaining CEOs, not buying dinner for Gomer and Gomerette to come hear about the financial pyramid and how EIAs fit into it.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=xej1984]

on the subject of ej you are absolutely clueless as to how low stl will go.

[/quote]

Are you not the nimrod who believes that I am an EJ executive, here to spout the company line?

Now you're saying that I am absolutely clueless?

$10,000 for dinner for 17 would be close to $600 per head.  Does that make sense to you--that a firm would spend $600 per head to pitch their products to people looking for sound financial planning advice?

I know, I know--there are other expenses.  A plane ticket and a hotel room for a couple of people.

OK, let's make it $450 per person--does that make sense?  That's the kind of money that is spent on entertaining CEOs, not buying dinner for Gomer and Gomerette to come hear about the financial pyramid and how EIAs fit into it.

[/quote]

I be he!

Clueless and an ej executive go hand in hand.....you're also the correct vintage and arrogance (you know everythin about the biz and are will tell everybody so) .... so you fit the bill as a an ej gp perfectly

You know as well as I do that what happened was your clients got a phone call from a Jones broker–that that broker urged them to stay, but did not slur your reputation.  Other brokers would not engage in stuff like that because they often expect to leave themselves and would not want it done to them.

That might be true if the person calling the clients when you leave is actually the broker who will be taking over the vacant office.  It is not.

The people calling are from a boiler room atmosphere in St Louis who are never planning to meet with clients face to face.  They get on the phone the instant your butt leaves the chair and begin the process of "conserving" the office by telling lies and spreading innuendos about your character and business ethics.  They then process to churn the accounts.  Those guys get the commissions for any trades that are done before a new broker is assigned to the office so they just don't give a sh*t about either the client or the new broker and they certainly don't care how they smear the outgoing broker. 

Spiked is absolutely correct.  If it weren't for the fact that a.) I had already informed my best clients...meaning those I wanted to retain.... about my upcoming move and b.) most of those clients were my clients before I came to Jones and had known me for years as the wonderful, ethical and cute person that I am , the nasty tactics would have worked.  Sure I did lose a few clients that I wanted, but such is life.

As to the cost of the dinner..... I imagine that they expected a tad more that 17 people to show up.  Gee how disappointing.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=xej1984]

on the subject of ej you are absolutely clueless as to how low stl will go.

[/quote]

Are you not the nimrod who believes that I am an EJ executive, here to spout the company line?

Now you're saying that I am absolutely clueless?

$10,000 for dinner for 17 would be close to $600 per head.  Does that make sense to you--that a firm would spend $600 per head to pitch their products to people looking for sound financial planning advice?

I know, I know--there are other expenses.  A plane ticket and a hotel room for a couple of people.

OK, let's make it $450 per person--does that make sense?  That's the kind of money that is spent on entertaining CEOs, not buying dinner for Gomer and Gomerette to come hear about the financial pyramid and how EIAs fit into it.

[/quote]

I'm with NASDY on this one. The numbers don't make sense.

Ten thousand dollars is what it would cost to throw one of those investment seminar dinners for about 150 to 200 people.

Nobody, but nobody, expects to turn out more than a couple of dozen people for a dinner--regardless of how nice the place may be.  The rooms that are provided for such gatherings will only hold a relative few people, thus the potential costs are held down.

+++++

Do you, Babbling Looney, think that calls were being made suggesting that the departing broker had IRS problems--or do you think they were far more subtle than that?

It's my conclusion that Jones is not going to put themselves in legal jeopardy for a few accounts from a broker who was washing out of the business.

When I left the calls were something to the tune of

"We are an ethical firm and she just didn't fit into our business model."  Gee, what do you think they were getting at here?

"There were some problems....(pregnant pause).... and we don't where she went. So.... where are all your CDs, when do they come due and how much interest are you getting. We have a really great 30 year bond paying 5% interest. If you have the money available you should buy some TODAY."    Hmmm....now the client is supposed to think....What kind of problems.

"We understand that she was having financial troubles.......  Your mutual funds are really not performing as they should and we think your account has not been monitors as it should be.  Let's move all those Franklin Fund that you have into American Funds.  Yada Yada ."  They may not have mentioned the IRS directly, but the implication is there that I am having money problems and it is meant to scare the clients about what I might have been doing to their accounts to create commissions.

You can believe what you want. I KNOW what they were telling my clients because they called me at home and told me so within HOURS of my leaving the office.  The calls were made with the express purpose of discrediting and slandering me and to churn the client's accounts.

Your persistent delusion that because someone has decided to leave the serfdom of EDJ to open an independent practice equates to washing out of the business....is just that a delusion.

Get over yourself.

looney, did you also send the “cease and desist” letter asap?

[quote=babbling looney]

[/quote]

Why did you not sue them for slander?  You do not have to prove monetary damages--just damage to reputation would be enough.

If they were churning your clients why did you not urge those clients to bring churning allegations against them?

Everybody is whining about how terrible they were treated, how terrible the clients were treated--but nobody ever does anything to rectify it.

I would think that an honorable thing to do would be to contact the NASD--perhaps even the SEC--and bring the entire firm to its knees.  By doing nothing you are simply aiding and abetting the continuation of what amounts to a systematic destruction of the industry.

Why did you not pick up the phone and call the NASD?  You're a big girl, former banker--you know what's right and what's wrong.  Why didn't you do something about it?

[quote=NASD Newbie][quote=babbling looney]

[/quote]

Why did you not sue them for slander?  You do not have to prove monetary damages--just damage to reputation would be enough.

Right just little ole loser me against a big organization.  Ha. I know better than to beat my head against the wall.  It wasn't worth the effort since hardly anyone believed them anyway.  Besides, I was too busy ACATing my clients.  

If they were churning your clients why did you not urge those clients to bring churning allegations against them?

They didn't get to churn my clients since I moved most of them out.  If they didn't want to change and come with me then they weren't my clients anymore and not my responsibility. 

Everybody is whining about how terrible they were treated, how terrible the clients were treated--but nobody ever does anything to rectify it.

Yes, I suppose I could have put on my Don Quixote outfit and spent way too much time trying to tilt at that windmill.  Frankly I have better things to do.

I would think that an honorable thing to do would be to contact the NASD--perhaps even the SEC--and bring the entire firm to its knees.  By doing nothing you are simply aiding and abetting the continuation of what amounts to a systematic destruction of the industry.

Why did you not pick up the phone and call the NASD?  You're a big girl, former banker--you know what's right and what's wrong.  Why didn't you do something about it?

Actually I did speak to my attorney about the whole situation and he said unless the clients themselves bring suit and can prove damages there wasn't much I could do especially since financial damages of moving from one investment to another are not immediately apparant in most cases.   He also felt that it would be hard to prove my own financial damages as I was now doing better than ever since leaving the company and that a reputation damage suit is a very difficult suit to prove or quantify.  In a court I might spend years of my time and win, if at all, a paltry sum in actual damages and who knows what a jury would award in punitive damages since they would probably not be sympathetic to either the plaintiff or the defendant.  A waste of time.

The only reason I am wasting this time is because you refuse to accept that the S.O.P. at Jones is what we have said it to be.

[quote=babbling looney]

The only reason I am wasting this time is because you refuse to accept that the S.O.P. at Jones is what we have said it to be.[/quote]

You're right I don't accept it.  What I accept is that they made phone calls to your clients in an attempt to save them--all firms do that.

What I accept is that veiled references to capability--even honesty--may have been made because I too have done that and have taught others how to do it in such a way as to avoid legal issues.

What I do not accept is that Jones is so naive that they would allow people--who by your own story were some sort of home office task force that was in action to save accounts--to slander their departing reps.

Hell, it portrays them in a negative light to do that and they don't know who they are talking to on the other end.

I'm disappointed to come to the realization that you're just another Jones hater.

We are disappointed that you continue to be naive despite your centuries of wisdom.  <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Your belief that brokers from Jones (or many other firms) do not call and say things that would disparage an exiting broker is so stupid I do not know where to even start. 

Your perspective is very confusing at times.  You seem to look at some situations like this one through rose colored glasses, yet you are the biggest cynic on this board. 

You have made 2 examples recently that are completely asinine and you should be embarrassed at believing. 

1.  Brokers call and say things in a compliant manner on the phone.  They would never say something slanderous, as that would be illegal.  XYZ firm would never endorse doing anything illegal, so that means that the brokers would never dream of doing so either.  All brokers follow procedures in contacting clients, and never use scare tactics or tell lies.  Doing so would be unethical and a broker’s conscience would always keep him from doing so.  A broker would never act in a fashion not acceptable to the firm’s code of ethics, especially when there are commissions to be made!!! 

So, you don’t think these annuity salesman ever call and guarantee their client 5% without explaining all the catches?  Or even worse, sell them a product with these features without ever explaining them.  Guess what, I bet the firm’s code of ethics strongly prohibits ever selling anything without full disclosure, so I guess no broker would ever consider doing something that their b/d deems as dishonest.  Give me a break. 

2.  A broker’s client will admit that you told him about your exit planning strategies when put into arbitration.  So, a client would have hired an attorney due to being upset and filing a complaint, but then his conscience gets hold of him too (just like the broker from the previous example) and he decides to admit that he knew what was going on all along and he OK'd it in the beginning. (this is from a past post, but again displays a miscalculated confidence in people)

These are serious flaws in your thinking.  Both of these views are 100% insane and I wish your dog could slap you for being so stupid.  Maybe I need to move from <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Texas to NY so I can meet all of these ethical, honest and perfectly straight people that seem to be saturating this industry. 

Just because someone does not go through the lengthy process of litigation does not mean that an offense never occurred.  Maybe at some point they should put it behind them since they did nothing to rectify the situation, but to think that people are acting in accordance with their firms policies when there are commissions waiting to be made to meet their production requirements, keep a job, keep the house, keep your wife (before she starts banging the neighbor who isn’t a loser like you the failed broker) is an opinion of the uniformed. 

I am sorry that you are not bright enough to understand why you are wrong--but you are.

I have never said that brokers don't make rescue phone calls--I even acknowledge that sometimes those phone calls may suggest that the departing broker had traits that caused the firm to be glad he's gone.

What I do not accept is specific statements such as "He had problems with the IRS."  The reason is there is no way to know for sure how close the person being called is to the departed broker, whether the call may be being taped and so forth.  Just too much risk to intentionally libel the departing broker.

Add the layer that Loony introduced--that the calls are being initiated from a boiler room type of environment in St. Louis and it becomes even less likely because that boiler room would be too close to the executives who would hang if what was being alleged was actually true.

The manager of the office the departing Jones broker is reporting to would be more than happy to go to war with Jones if there was even a scent of this happening.

Again, I am not saying that phone calls are not made--what I'm saying is that those who say that their clients were told that they had IRS problems are lying.

As for the drivel about clients and the discussing of exit strategies.  I'm not going to waste my time with that any longer.  I have been involved in something like 5,000 arbitration cases and I know what a panel will and will not believe, and I know what a good defense attorney can and cannot get a client to acknowledge.

You children can get back with me when you grow up and know half as much as I have already forgotten.

So nobody from a firm would ever call a exiting brokers client and say something like, "he had issues with the IRS", "he was fired for being unethical to clients", "he was fired because he had inappropriate relations with other employees". 

That never happens.  I mean I guess I am so stupid that one day I'll learn to pay attention to what I have HEARD BROKERS SAY.  And the things they say are exactly in line with what I wrote and what looney wrote. 

Looney, I believe you.  I know that agents will say anything to keep a client.....and I mean anything. 

********NOTE******** -  Newby has no problem telling Looney, myself and others that we are LYING.  However it would be asanine if a broker were to ever call an exiting brokers client WHEN THERE ARE COMMISSIONS TO BE MADE. 

So, when we have nothing to gain except exposing you for dumba$$ that you are we must be lying.  However, when there are commissions on the table we would never lie and say something outside of a generic "rescue call".  Your logic seems horribly flawed. 

You can't have it both ways to make your argument.  You have to decide whether we are liars or not. 

Until then, enjoy living in the dark. 

You're paranoid and delusional if you think that Jones management is tollerating some sort of hit squad to jump on the phone as you walk out the door and slander YOU as an individual.

Jones is one of the nation's premier brokerage firms--and as such it is going to have policies and procedures that would avoid negative publicity as if it were the plague.

We have a handful--three or four--EX Jones brokers who are whining that they were misteated, slandered and worse.  Yet not one of them did anything to counter the slander.

Does that really make sense to an intelligent, open minded, person?

Do you really think that a manager at, say, Morgan Stanley would sit by like a passive observer while his newly hired broker was being slandered?  How is that going to reflect on Morgan Stanley's reputation--hiring a guy who had IRS problems, or anything else.

I have no doubt that the rescue calls may have warned the client to be aware that the depared broker will probably attempt to take them out of positions they were in and put them into different positions.

I have no doubt that the rescue calls may have suggested that there was a bonus paid for making the move--most investors would be glad to know that their broker was worthy of a bonus.

I have no doubt that the resuce calls may have suggested that the move occured in the middle of the night, or over a weekend.  Most clients could not care less about those types of details and would probably conclude that that was what they would do too.

But common sense says that if you were slandered you'd react in a way more forceful than whining about it on an Internet forum--not one of you whiners talk about suing Jones.  Why not?

Common sense says that if you were being slandered your new B/D would sue Jones because statements such as those being alleged slander the new B/D--not one of you whiners talk about your new B/D suing Jones.  Why not?

Common sense says that clients would recoil in anger if they were told that the broker they had chosen was dishonest, had IRS problems, was taking liberties with somebody in the office, or anything else.  If you were going to try to retain somebody's account would you say those kind of things?  I'll assume you're thinking that you would not.  Why do you suppose somebody else would?

On the other hand, might you say something like, "I'm calling to let you know that we had to let Bob Broker go this morning but that we certainly hope we can keep you as a happy customer...."  I'll bet you're thinking you would do that--and so would the Jones rescue callers in St. Louis.

excuse my edit....

********NOTE******** -  Newby has no problem telling Looney, myself and others that we are LYING.  However it would be asanine if a broker were to ever call an exiting brokers client and lie to them WHEN THERE ARE COMMISSIONS TO BE MADE. 

[quote=ribsnwhiskey]

excuse my edit....

********NOTE******** -  Newby has no problem telling Looney, myself and others that we are LYING.  However it would be asanine if a broker were to ever call an exiting brokers client and lie to them WHEN THERE ARE COMMISSIONS TO BE MADE. 

[/quote]

If you were speaking would you say, ".....telling Looney, myself and others....." or would you say, ".....telling Looney, me, and others....."

Since when does ANY manager sit there and supervise a broker’s phone call to orphan clients.  Who says that Jones or anyone is aware of this happening frequently? <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Not being aware that this is common practice (not just jones, and for the record I never worked there) is usually a case of turning your eyes to keep assets.  You think people don't play dirty when nobody is looking.  How is your Branch Manager or anyone for that matter going to ever know the scare tactics you used to gain a client, unless the client files a compliant against you and cites the comments a broker made.  Then it turns into "he said" "she said". 

Just as Looney mentioned, just because she did not go after them and sue them does not mean something did not happen.  Why would she as a broker spend time and energy if 70% of my clients have moved with her and she is making more money now?  Most advisors want to wash their hands clean of everything from their firm and not dig deeper into a situation that they are trying to get out of.  Just because they do not sue does not mean an offense ever occurred. 

Since you have so many years of experience in arbitration, do you not know that many people avoid it because of how much the time and expense can drain someone?   

Do you know how these 'orphan' accounts are distributed and monitored?  I do.  They hand each broker a spreadsheet with all the contact info and a snapshot of the cleints account and say "get to dialing".  From there, all anyone cares about is the production generated from the orphan client.  And guess who cares the most, the Branch Manager.  Sadly, you think the BM is the friend of the client and would never allow a negative comment about a departed broker to bring the company future commissions.  Once again, you have a misplaced trust in people. 

How many years were you a BM to oversee these type of activities?  What did you do as a BM to ensure that your brokers were not using any unethical tactics when soliciting these orphan clients?

Keep talking, I like how you continue to show your a$$.

[quote=NASD Newbie][quote=ribsnwhiskey]

excuse my edit....

********NOTE******** -  Newby has no problem telling Looney, myself and others that we are LYING.  However it would be asanine if a broker were to ever call an exiting brokers client and lie to them WHEN THERE ARE COMMISSIONS TO BE MADE. 

[/quote]

If you were speaking would you say, ".....telling Looney, myself and others....." or would you say, ".....telling Looney, me, and others....."

[/quote]

Depending on your age it is generally written

"telling Looney, me and others" - with no comma before the 'and'. 

or

"telling Looney, me, and others" - is equally acceptable. 

The latter of the two has been the proper form for years, but more modern writing has been accepting of leaving out the comma. 

I apologize for having someone tell "myself" something.  They obviously told "me" something. 

If you were moving from Jones to, say, Morgan Stanley and Jones brokers were smearing your reputation would you not expect Morgan Stanley to sue Jones on your behalf?

After all, if Jones is saying that you have problems with the IRS it reflects horribly on Morgan Stanley for having hired you.

In order for somebody to tell a client that a broker, "has IRS problems" the following must occur:

1.  The broker making the phone call must be dishonest.  If you think most people are dishonest you are dishonest yourself and figure so is everybody else.

2.  The broker making the phone call must assume that the person they are talking to feels no loyalty or friendship for the departed broker.  How do they know that a name on a spread sheet is not the departed broker's best friend?

3.  The client has to be willing to accept the statement as being true, or the person making it loses all credibility and the purpose of the call in the first place loses any value.

4.  The firm that employs the person who is lying to the departed broker's clients must completely ignore their responsibility to supervise.

5.  The broker about whom the lies were told must be willing to be lied about without wanting to take some sort of action to protect their own reputation.  If somebody told a client of yours that you had IRS problems would you simply say, "Oh well" and go on with life or would you at least talk to your new manager?

6.  The broker's new manager would have to be willing to make himself look incompetent for hiring the broker who was being slandered.

The odds of these stories being true are longer than the odds that I'll win the Lottery this week.

I was born late at night, boys and girls, but it was not last night.

The supervisor bears no responsibility.

You said so yourself, Newbie.

Since I only check this forum once a day at night, I will only reply to Newbie's math.

I guess I wasn't clear.  They budgeted $10,000 for the broker to throw a seminar.  They spent a ton of money advertising, sending invites, bringing in my former BOA to call clients, bringing in my former friends (other IR's in the region) and flying egghead out to Cali.  They failed miserably.  They anticipated 150 to 200 clients/prospects and they ended up with 17.  So I don't know what they actually ended up spending...The point is they tried everything to keep the clients.

I had some experience on both sides of the coin when a broker leaves Jones, so will clarify a couple of issues.  This is not just based on my personal experience, in the last 2 years I have taken a couple of the "transition reps", or TR's, who are the brokers sent out to an office temporarily to try to salvage what is there until they are replaced by a permanent IR, out for a beer and pumped them for info, knowing that I would probably be on the leaving side at some point in my career.

There is an AUM level, I believe around 15mm, that dictates whether a TR is assigned, they may also take into account whether it is a competitive situation. 

Offices below that level are assigned to a TR who stays in STL, who will be managing several offices.  I believe that many of those brokers are in the Pass Program, which is basically a 2 year internal program for failed new reps that EDJ believes have potential.  I would suspect that those people have more supervision than the TR's out in the field, however, they are relatively inexperienced.  Also, they have been on a low salary for 1-2 years and now are able to generate some commissions, which could cloud their judgement, since based on when they were 1st recruited to EDJ they probably expected to be making $100,000 by now.

The larger offices have a TR go out to them, and while none of the TR's were probably big hitters, the ones I met tended to have more experience and were doing the TR thing for a year or two for personal reasons (I'm sure in addition to not producing at the level they desired, although not low enough to get on the outs with EDJ).

In both cases, the TR's know that they will have these clients for days or weeks, not years, so I would expect some churning problems.  Also, most of the TR's will get assigned to an office when their tour as a TR is up.  The ripest plums will still go to the RL's or GP's kids, etc., but there are some pretty nice offices to be had for simply showing up.  I would assume there is some pressure to generate alot of sales as a TR to increase one's standing to get one of those more highly coveted offices when it is available.

Do I think that as a rule clients are told that there are IRS or ethical problems point blank?  No.  Do I think that as a rule those type of issues are implied?  Yes.  Do I think that struggling brokers who see the chance to move a $3,000 ticket from Oppenheimer or Franklin to American or something similar will occasionally cross the line?  Is the Pope Catholic?  Bear in mind that the American Funds ICA guide is somewhat of a religious text at EDJ, and no matter how well a client was positioned before you found him, his portfolio can always be improved by liquidating and reinvesting into American Funds.

[quote=spikedkoolaid]

Since I only check this forum once a day at night, I will only reply to Newbie's math.

I guess I wasn't clear.  They budgeted $10,000 for the broker to throw a seminar.  They spent a ton of money advertising, sending invites, bringing in my former BOA to call clients, bringing in my former friends (other IR's in the region) and flying egghead out to Cali.  They failed miserably.  They anticipated 150 to 200 clients/prospects and they ended up with 17.  So I don't know what they actually ended up spending...The point is they tried everything to keep the clients.

[/quote]

Have any of you ever had a dinner presentation where you were feeding 160 to 200 people?

It is my experience that those dinner invitations are always inviting you to have dinner in a nice restaurant, where there is a private dining room that will hold at most twenty or so.

I've never seen an invitation to come have dinner in a hall where there will be circular tables for ten and you'll be lost in the crowd.

But I could be wrong--perhaps making a prospect feel like they're nothing more than somebody in the crowd is a new way of marketing.

Finally Newbie you have gotten the picture.  They rented a big hall and wanted 200 people to come sit and hear the Chief Market Strategist say, "You need to buy and hold."  They were trying to convey that a lot of people are staying at Edward Jones. 

Imagine the picture of a 200 person room and it barely filled two tables.  I love that picture in my mind.

As for the IRS comments, I have it recorded.  It's not an implication.  And you were right, the IR that replaced me at Jones is really stupid.

[quote=spikedkoolaid]

Finally Newbie you have gotten the picture.  They rented a big hall and wanted 200 people to come sit and hear the Chief Market Strategist say, "You need to buy and hold."  They were trying to convey that a lot of people are staying at Edward Jones. 

Imagine the picture of a 200 person room and it barely filled two tables.  I love that picture in my mind.

As for the IRS comments, I have it recorded.  It's not an implication.  And you were right, the IR that replaced me at Jones is really stupid.

[/quote]

I believe precisely nothing about what you just said.  Why you feel compelled to lie escapes me, but it's a character flaw you should have examined by a mental health professional.

Nasty, you're certainly entitled to not believe Spike, but I don't see anything in that post that seems implausible.  A friend of mine had a former client ask him after he left, "Are you OK?"  When my friend said yes and asked why he asked, this person told him that he'd received a call from my friend's 24 shortly after my friend left, and he specifically told the client that my friend had left, had significant financial problems, and most likely would not last three months on his own.  After some legal skirmishing on both sides, this talk was shut off.

Don't think for a moment that people in this business, who should know better (such as the 24), don't do some really stupid and unethical things...they do.  As a matter of fact, Spike's regional leader was outed after posting some really, really stupid things on this forum.  He disappeared immediately after that to never post again (and I'm guessing was chewed out by the leaders at Jones for his foolishness).

I agree, it's easy to manufacture things when you're positing anonymously on an internet forum, and there appears to be a fair amount of BS on these boards, but nothing I've read in Spike's story appears to be implausible, whether it's true or not.

[quote=Indyone]

I agree, it's easy to manufacture things when you're positing anonymously on an internet forum, and there appears to be a fair amount of BS on these boards, but nothing I've read in Spike's story appears to be implausible, whether it's true or not.

[/quote]

How about renting a hall for 200 where they expected to serve dinner?

First, if you're buying dinner for 200 you would not have to rent a place, it would be provided by the restaurant.

Secondly, dinner presentations are ALWAYS at a semi-fancy restaurant--to make an impression--and those types of places don't have rooms that will hold 200 at big round tables.  I doubt that this 200 was expected to sit at chairs, theater style, with TV trays.

Is it your experience that groups of more than a couple of dozen are receptive to the message that a financial advisor is attemting to convey?

Has marketing changed in the last several weeks, and now being lost in the crowd is considered a desirable image to project?

I would submit that this is how EDJ markets, and it rings very familiar to what I see in my market.  Last fall, all the Jones reps went together and rented a building to host 200-250 clients and had a local restaurant cater the meal in since none of our restaurants had a room large enough to accomodate that number.

I think EDJ does it a bit different than you are used to seeing in the world of the wirehouse...not saying it's right...just saying that it's what I see in my region.

Amen…NASD Newbie–even if you were and are the expert you claim to be

about the wirehouse world, EJ is quite different. In most ways it comes

across as quite hokey and unsophisticated–and that’s the stuff they WANT

to be different! If you had a complete list of their branch offices that showed

their neighbor tenants, it wouldn’t inspire an image of professional

confidence. They spin it as “local and convenient”–sorta like a dry cleaner.

It does have some advantages, but generally the overall image doesn’t work

as well as it could. They do seem to be moving to or opening more offices

in professional buildings where you’d see a dentist, CPA, attorney, etc.

That’s probably a step in the right direction for them. But the big dinner

event doesn’t seem strange to me in their “culture.”

[quote=Indyone]

I would submit that this is how EDJ markets, and it rings very familiar to what I see in my market.  Last fall, all the Jones reps went together and rented a building to host 200-250 clients and had a local restaurant cater the meal in since none of our restaurants had a room large enough to accomodate that number.

I think EDJ does it a bit different than you are used to seeing in the world of the wirehouse...not saying it's right...just saying that it's what I see in my region.

[/quote]

Do you believe that they would be so off in their head count that only 17 people showed up, but that they had paid for 200 people?

Are you that naive?

No, I'm not necessarily saying they paid for 200 meals, but I do believe that they committed to a large room, thinking many more people would come than ultimately committed.

You're being naive to think it's not possible for them to be that stupid...I've seen some awfully dumb stuff in my market.

NASD I try to avoid conflict on this forum and absolutely with those who buy their ink by the barrel or make posts by the dozen. That said you are absolutely wrong on Spiked’s point of large dinners. I am fairly certain i know Spiked and he was a Top Producer @ EJ or at least very close. However, to your point of large client dinners apparently you have not spent alot of time in say Kearney Nebraska or Sidney Montana or Paducah Kentucky but those places I bet have “Client Appreciation Dinners” when an EJ rep leaves and they do pack’em in. I have attended events that size. I bet there are a few on this forum who have helped host or attend an American Funds Shareholder meeting with masses present. As to the point of misjudging the number when a rep leaves they do anything they can to get their clients to attend this dinner so to get an accurate count for them may be difficult. To misjudge by the amount Spiked indicates would perhaps attest to the stupidity he/she indicated was present in the rep who replaced him/her and not their mental well being. Now, do your best.

It is common practice for the firm losing a broker with a big book to protect the assets at almost any cost. It happens everywhere…just check the front page of this site, there is a big mess at ML. It seems like there is always something screwed up goin on at ML that is posted on this site.

[quote=skolbrother]I bet there are a few on this forum who have helped host or attend an American Funds Shareholder meeting with masses present.[/quote]

...that's exactly what I was describing above...

The point is this.  It has been said that Jones spent $10,000 to entertain 17 people.  I do not believe that.

I do not believe that a firm would pay for 200 or more dinners without any indication on how many people would actually show up--I don't care if it's in Bumphuck, Idaho or New York City.

You're right I have never been to mutual fund shareholder's meeting where the crowd gathers for dinner.  I've been to a few held in theaters where they sit in chairs and listen to what the fund has been doing since the last meeting.

I've also been involved in more than a few attempts to keep a book inhouse--and I refuse to believe that Jones would engage in wholesale smearing of a guy's reputation.  I do believe that phone calls are made, and I do believe that subtle statements are made in an attempt to retain the account--talk of inceased fees would be expected, talk of being persuaded to switch fund families would be expected.  But there would not be talk about IRS problems, morality issues, and the like.

There are simply too many risks, and a firm such as Jones would be too focused on the downside to mount the kind of campaigns that are being described.

It is not credible when somebody says, "They told my clients that I had IRS problems, but I wasn't mad enough to even ask a lawyer about it.  Sometimes you just want to get on with your life."

Do that to me and I'll just tell my lawyer to make your life miserable, call me when I have to give a deposition, and send me 2/3rds of what he wins.

Do that to me and I'll tell my new firm what you're doing.  They will sue you because you are sullying their reputation by suggesting that they would hire somebody with IRS problems.

I further suggest that if you believe that your fellow human beings would do anything just to keep your accounts you have a poorly defined sense of morality and should be ever vigilant in an attempt to avoid people such as yourself.

Would you pick up the phone and call a complete stranger, and then slander a third party without knowing if the person on the phone was the guy you were slandering's best friend?  Does that really make sense to you?

This story has all the earmarks of a guy who started out with a typical, "This is what they did to me" story, but his distaste for Jones caused him to embellish it not suspecting that he'd be called on it.

I've been reading NASD Notices to Members for close to two decades.  I peruse the monthly list of disciplinary actions and I have a near photographic memory.  I cannot recall seeing anything about wholesale slander efforts being conducted by Jones.

If it had been true the NASD would be on Jones like white on rice. And they're not.

I do not believe that a firm would pay for 200 or more dinners without any indication on how many people would actually show up--I don't care if it's in Bumphuck, Idaho or New York City.

You can refuse to believe anything you like.  I, personally, refuse to believe that anyone in their right mind would actually want to live in New York City. Since you do live there and seem not to understand how the "little" folk in the fly over States operate, I can believe that you don't believe it.

But there would not be talk about IRS problems, morality issues, and the like.

OK.  I guess my clients were hallucinating and hearing voices from above instead of actually getting phone calls from EDJ when I left. 

Would you pick up the phone and call a complete stranger, and then slander a third party without knowing if the person on the phone was the guy you were slandering's best friend?  Does that really make sense to you?

I wouldn't, however, they did just that at Jones.  In fact, they called my BOA with one of these types of calls.  After a few minutes of them slandering me she actually said.  "Do you know who this is? I am the BOA at the office."  She had decided to stay on at the branch.  Since I left on very good terms with her, she called me to tell me exactly what they were saying.

It is not credible when somebody says, "They told my clients that I had IRS problems, but I wasn't mad enough to even ask a lawyer about it.  Sometimes you just want to get on with your life."

Why isn't it credible?  In my case, I just didn't want to expend the time, resources, mental and emotional stress to deal with something that no one believed in any case.  As I said, I had already informed my clients that I was changing firms, they all had known me for years and years.  I was too busy making a transition to spin my wheels in a futile effort that would take years and most likely result in no satisfactory court decision. 

I imagine that most people who leave Jones are quiting the industry, so in that case why bother with what they say about you. Or, they are moving on to greener pastures so again why bother.  I also believe that Jones relies on the fact that many who leave Jones just do not have the resources $$$$$ to put up a lengthy legal battle.  So you can believe what you want and I can believe what I want.  Isn't that a great system?

You think that I am a Jones hater.  Well, that isn't true and you can look up some of my previous posts.  I was sadly disappointed with my experience there and felt that I had been misled as to how the business plan actually worked.  Nevertheless, I do suggest to aspiring financial advisors that it can be a good place to start and that there are many happy people who work there still.  It wasn't for me.  

And when you're doing events that large you have to guarantee the hotel/restaurant a certain number of attendees and they'll bill you for the full amount even if less show up.  If EJ was feeling cocky and guaranteed the full 200, perhaps paying $20/plate that's already an expense of $4000, not including gratuities & tax...

It's not impossible that they spent $10K, but it's definitely a reflection of poor planning.

[quote=FreedomLvr]

And when you’re doing events that large you have to guarantee the hotel/restaurant a certain number of attendees and they’ll bill you for the full amount even if less show up.  If EJ was feeling cocky and guaranteed the full 200, perhaps paying $20/plate that’s already an expense of $4000, not including gratuities & tax…

It's not impossible that they spent $10K, but it's definitely a reflection of poor planning.

It probably actually cost closer to eleventy kabillion dollars!