End of the Line for me :(

wow- 10 years. no excuses, though. good luck!

I’m sorry to hear this. Best of luck to you bro.

good luck to you!



things happen for a reason

sorry to hear your news, best of luck...

Very sorry for you. Sadly there will be many others joining you. But for the grace of God could be any of us at some point. 

Has anyone else decided its time to move on or perhaps get a second job until this thing blows over? Im not at that stage yet, but the drop off in biz gets me real nervous and I start thinking PT job. Then somehow I pull it together by the end of the month. And then the battle begins all over again.  

Based on guys Ive seen who have left under similar type situation, 100% of them 2 years later look back on it and it was best decision they ever made in their life.  Maybe stressful now, but pretty sure you will see it was the right move later.  Many Many more to follow you too, this market is done for a long long time.  Only question is how long.

Bondking…get something on the side. I did it in 2001 and 2002 for a while. Biz got real bad and I just had to do something. Working harder in the biz wasnt paying the bills so I got PT jobs and it saved my sanity and helped us get through that tough spell. Eventually was able to rebuild and do well. It sucked but it had to be done. And it may have to be done again. If so, so be it. 

Based on guys Ive seen who have left under similar type situation, 100%
of them 2 years later look back on it and it was best decision they
ever made in their life.
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I think a lot of us would walk if we could make the kind of money we have been making elsewhere in a more stable and enjoyable field. Problem is those jobs dont exist now. So we have to survive this. Just where the heck are we going to start all over at 40 plus yrs of age, for those of us in that age category?

Sad news.  Ten years in and having to get out.  Being only a month in that scares the bejesus out of me.  Though I just left 11 years in the mortgage biz.  Out of the frying pan…

this business is really really hard. i have made a ton of money over the years. wasted 10 years of my life (and one marriage) working like an insane madman. if i had to start again…i would not get in this GD business. when rookies come to me for advice i tell them to get their other jobs back. they laugh   im 100% serious   

Unfortunately, as a sign of the times, this thread could reach a hundred plus pages long.

I wasn't aware you could get a second(pt) job and still keep your day job...

JayMc…I agree. When anyone asks me how to get in the biz, Ill tell them to stay away. Not trying to discourage folks, just trying to spare them the life. I’m 12 years in and have made serious mistakes in this biz and also have recovered by the grace of God, but here we go down the chute again. Its a never ending cycle of highs and lows. Tremendous paychecks to near poverty wages. You have to be able to bank serious coin in the good times to survive the bad and that itself is not the easiest task if you have a family.  

I wasn’t aware you could get a second(pt) job and still keep your day job…
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yes you can. Just not in the industry. Sure the boss may not like it but they can go pound sand. They arent going to help us. Get a job at night and/or on weekends. Find something where you wont run into clients if possible. Security, limo driver, bouncer, bartender. Look for gigs on Craigs List. I know a guy stocking shelves at night. Its sucks, but it helps you and it builds character and its not forever. If your a guy, your wife isnt going to be very happy seeing you sit around complaining all the time about this sh*tty biz of ours. Go out and get a PT job. Helps you pay the bills and helps you keep your self respect. And people will respect you for it, not look down on you. Some will say dont get a PT job, just work harder. Ok great. Try that and if that works, keep doing it. If not, put your pride aside and get something to help you out until this blows over. Just my thoughts on this. Been there.

Before you go out and do this…remember, you’ll need to get approval
from your compliance department AND you’ll need to disclose it as an
Outside Business Activity on your U4.
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Yes this is correct, but in this environment no one will bat an eyelash at this unless you are trying to work for another investment/financial svs firm. No one will tell you that you cannot get an extra job to help make ends meet during this unprecedented economic downturn, if that is what you need to do. Could be the difference between surviving or not. When the recovery eventually comes, this will be a great business again.

I’ve been at this 28 years. There are good times, and there are bad times. You have to watch your expenses, and don’t spend money like the good times will last forever. They won’t, and neither will bad times.

Sorry to hear you are bailing out.  You'll be in my prayers.  Over the years I've seen this business chew up and spit out some of the best.  Unless Congress & the Fed are spot on perfect (which I doubt), there's no way the economy will lift prior to Q4-09....and perhaps far beyond.   We should all hunker down for a rough stretch and hope the lawyers stay away.  It's going to take all the sisu we can muster to ride this storm out!

For longest time I just thought that if things ever  got lean I would just work extra hard and bring in some more clients. Things have changed. I am also considering doing something on the side, including looking at some franchises. Its actually kind of fun to look at! Go to entrepenuer magazine website and look at all the franchises. I mean...who wouldn't rather be driving a Snapon tool truck right now!!

I am sorry to hear of your situation, and can fully appreciate the stress you must feel.

Has it occurred to any of you that this is a further sign that the bottom is near at hand?

I’m just sayin’

I agree with Hyman.
From a psychology standpoint, this thread, and the general tone of the forums lately overall, are classic signs of a bottom.
Bondking, i feel for you. Good luck.
For the rest of us, there is way too much negativity. Yeah, things are a bitch right now. But there is money everywhere. I’ve brought in 2 million in the first two months of the year and i am not trying. Just unhappy folks referred by their friends and one guy from my BNI group.
I’m trying to be proactive too, going forward.
I put together a small dinner two weeks from now, i called three clients told them i wanted to invite them to dinner, asked them to bring a friend/another couple, no sales, just a roundtable discussion with my views on the markets and a little about my process, along with a strategist from my firm. Three phone calls to clients, three yeses, three prospects being brought along. I;m gonna do this every month.
I’m not saying its easy to stay positive with markets going down day after day after day like a drum that doesnt stop beating.
But there is no way i am going to have my book waste away, no way I am going to be driven out of this business by gloom and doom. I am good at what i do and there are a lot of people who need my help, and i’m gonna find them, and make up the assets i lost.

We all need to fight the negativity and find some people who need our help and show them how we can help them. Thats what we can control. We cant control the market, Stressing over it will only drain our energy.
Bring in money, be prudent with it, and go find more. Its out there. Between the clients of brokers who are hiding under their desks, and the clients of brokers who have moved firms for a check, there is a lot of it.

JayMc…I agree. When anyone asks me how to get in the biz, Ill tell them to stay away. Not trying to discourage folks, just trying to spare them the life. I’m 12 years in and have made serious mistakes in this biz and also have recovered by the grace of God, but here we go down the chute again. Its a never ending cycle of highs and lows. Tremendous paychecks to near poverty wages. You have to be able to bank serious coin in the good times to survive the bad and that itself is not the easiest task if you have a family.  

I am sorry to hear of your situation, and can fully appreciate the stress you must feel.

Has it occurred to any of you that this is a further sign that the bottom is near at hand?

I’m just sayin’

Who wants to open a restaurant with me?!?

BONDKING:

Please tell me your not serious about part time jobs. Grab your balls and go knock on doors on the weekend. Everyones home. Just be yourself, smile and talk to people. You will make great contacts and much more $$ for your time.

Very sorry to hear about your misfortune. It’s a testament to the world we live in that we’re losing producers of your experience.



Considering your “no excuses” attitude, you’ll be back on your feet in six months.

Bondking,

Please tell me your not serious about part time jobs. Grab your balls and go knock on doors on the weekend. Everyones home. Just be yourself, smile and talk to people. You will make great contacts and much more $$ for your time.

bondking-- Godspeed and good luck to you.

[quote=sisu]

  Over the years I've seen this business chew up and spit out some of the best. 

Bondking that sucks! However seeing as you've been in the business 10 years, you're probably pretty good at selling. This will only help you going forward.

Bondking…we feel your pain.   Watching our incomes drop; 401k loans to make ends meet; fees resetting at ever-lower levels; clients bailing; loss of confidence in our own ability…

[quote=Uber Screwed] y…

Must be a market bottom.

Man, WTF?

Good stuff Stok. We should create a separate forum for all positive thoughts, results, and ways to get biz.

Yea, Stok! I have my own office and PT assistant, too. Your list is thoughtful and excellent.

I commend all of you who are staying positive and sticking it out. As a recruiting manager we do hear from someone every now and again that has decided to leave the business. That is truly sad. Think of all the hard work going to waste. Trust me, being in the job market right now is not the best thing. Competition is high and fewer employers are hiring. If you are lucky enough to land a 9-5 then you are “owned” by someone else again and you get paid little to nothing.

This may sound like blasphemy to many of you, but if you’re independent, consider selling some fixed or indexed annuities.  They’re flying off the shelves right now, and the commissions just might keep you in the business until things recover.  Look into them.  They’re a respectable investment if used sparingly and in the right way.   Just make sure to do it as part of a balanced portfolio and leave enough liquidity.  Food for thought.

[quote=stokwiz]Man, WTF?

Over the years, many people find this business to get easier.  In general, those are the reps who are now in trouble.  The business got easier because they had clients who had more and more assets.  They spent most of their time working with their existing clients.  They were able to do less work and not make any less money.

BondKing:

Indexed Annuities? Why limit your upside now w/ a cap. Thats crazy. A VA makes much more sense and I don’t even like those. Ins Co’s will go down if the market never comes back.

Indexed Annuities? Why limit your upside now w/ a cap. Thats crazy. A VA makes much more sense and I don’t even like those. Ins Co’s will go down if the market never comes back.

I have done index annuities here and there for a few years. Those clients are very happy right now. We did capture initial upside of 7 or 8% for some who I started early. The rest are pretty flat, but there are no losses and still the 3% min return to them is calculating and worse case thats is what they will walk away with in yr 7, an annualized ror of 3%. I am starting to use them more now that we are destroyed in the mkt. Upside potential is there over next 5 to 7 yrs. Even if mkt in the crapper next 2 yrs then mkt may begin to recover do well. Yeah, they might do better in straight index ETF with no cap, but try selling that now with no guarantees against loss. Frankly, I am much more comfortable with clients underlying protected here. I really have no more stomach for losses either. 

Why limit your upside now w/ a cap. Thats crazy.
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Thats why people lose money. Stupid and GREEDY. How about just returning the clients money with no strings attached and at worse a modest return? I can live with that and my clients def can live with that…Mr. Client, worse case scenario is we get an annualized 2% ror. Best case is we get an annualized ror of 8%. We will probably get somewhere in between over the next 5 to 7 years. Mr client, are these parameters acceptable to you? Guaranteed ret. of principal with a min 2% ROR and possibly a better return with a cap at 7 or 8% if S&P begins to recover?..answer is always yes. This is for clients who have no low to no tolerance for loss and also have the time to leave the money alone. Take to much out and the penalties are high. 10% typically allowed out per year, but up to 12% penalty if more than that.
 (I use ING 7yr hold and also Jackson 5 yr hold. Products differ in an number of ways. Both have worked well.)

what if the insurance co that wrote the annuity goes bk?  Nothing is gtd anymore.

Stok, Just you and the assistant ? How do you take time off or go on vacation ? Being in the office by myself to do what I do with no other people to slow me down sounds like heaven…but how do you get to step out for a while ?

BondKing, best of luck! Why not find an independent w an existing office to hook up with. Move your book over and then sell it to the independent if you want out. Get some value out of the effort you have put in.   Who knows you may find with a higher payout you might want to stick it out a while longer.

what if the insurance co that wrote the annuity goes bk?  Nothing is gtd anymore.
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Good question. If the insurance companies that I have done business with for clients go BK and they lose their investments, then that is likely the day I just walk away from this Fing business. I dont think I could take that one and keep on going in the biz. Let the bank take my house. We will relocate to where its warm all year round, cheaper to live and just start over.

Aren’t annuity investments backed by state pools for up to $100,000?  I know we’re not allowed to use that as a sales device, but as long as you break up the clients’ annuities into $100k blocks, don’t you have some safeguards in the event of the insurers going insolvent?

Yes

[quote=Bodysurf]Aren’t annuity investments backed by state pools for up to $100,000?  I know we’re not allowed to use that as a sales device, but as long as you break up the clients’ annuities into $100k blocks, don’t you have some safeguards in the event of the insurers going insolvent?
[/quote]

There are state guarantee funds, and as well the insurers will tend to support each other via capital infusions or takeovers…as they have a strong vested interest in maintaining public confidence in the product and industry.

So, to me the questions at hand would be:

1.)  How bad would it have to get before this ‘safety net’ would be overwhelmed?

2.)  Specifically what would be protected in the VA arena in the event of a company failure?  Would the ‘rescuer’ in a forced takeover likely only take over the existing assets in subaccount VA’s and the policyholders would lose the value of existing living guarantees?

This would probably be a useful topic for a new thread…I know there are folks on here who understand these issues far better than I do.

Sorry Bondking, I think deep down you know that you’ll be in a place in your life down the road one day w/ no regrets and utter the words, ‘I wouldn’t change a thing.’ I suppose you have to repay the loan? I’d be curious how that works since I’ve lost a chunk in the market.

Sorry Bondking, I think deep down you know that you’ll be in a place in your life down the road one day w/ no regrets and utter the words, ‘I wouldn’t change a thing.’ I suppose you have to repay the loan? I’d be curious how that works since I’ve lost a chunk in the market.

If you leave PCG to to ISG are you till eligibible for the envision bonus program???

If your still in here, Good luck to you!  How sad

There must has something wrong in this world ! We are in this situation man !