EJ Changes Below Expectation Rules
Edward Jones announced today that they are suspending the “goals” program this month and lowering the % required in future months based on firm profitability. This comes in response to so many FAs being below firm expectations. I know in our region over 75% of the FA’s selling 2-10 yrs are below and many were on the brink of going on goals. This should save a lot of jobs and retain a lot of AUM that would have left with some of these FAs. I think it was a good move.
[quote=breaking news]Edward Jones announced today that they are suspending the “goals” program this month and lowering the % required in future months based on firm profitability. This comes in response to so many FAs being below firm expectations. I know in our region over 75% of the FA’s selling 2-10 yrs are below and many were on the brink of going on goals. This should save a lot of jobs and retain a lot of AUM that would have left with some of these FAs. I think it was a good move. [/quote]
Why would you want to be employed at a company that would have to rush in at the 23rd hour to potentially save your job??
are there really that many below expectations?
this might not be a bad idea
What were the minimums ?
I know what they used to be years ago. Red, Yellow, and Green was the names given, but the % numbers do not come to my mind.I think it is just delaying the inevitable(spelling?)… You are talking about advisors who can’t do $216K/year…that is bad…some of these guy can’t put together $8-10K/month…
Jones should cut them loose and scale back their growth(it's obviously not working real well) my old region had 26 out of 64 advisors on goals.. There were some guys who were looking at leaving to go to LPL, but now they might hang out for awhile..As I look at my region it’s all the guys from 5 to 10 years out that are hurting. Less than five and the expectations are lower. More than 10 and this market hasn’t hurt their production much at all. 5 to 10 = Lots of little blue dots hanging out below the red line.
I think this is hilarious! Expensive business model, veteran advisors carrying the firm for years and being recruited like crazy, Regional meetings where the number one focus is growth, growth, growth, all these resources being dumped into training brand new advisors how to door knock. Is this really sustainable?
My region appears to be healthier than a lot of the regions that I read about on this board. We certainly don’t have anywhere near 75% of the
FA’s below standard. I would guess based upon my last look at the
regional performance chart, maybe there are 40% below standard. I think
that as of last week we had 2 or 3 on goals. As for why Jones is relaxing the standards (which were already pretty low compared to the
major wirehouses), we all know it’s strictly a business decision.
There are not enough new trainees in the system to replace all of those
who were going to fail.
they are going to have reps making 50k a year , this is going to bring their average rep salary down alot
I think it’s a good move.
Now we can concentrate on our clients and growing our businesses and not on losing our seats. I can’t compare myself to people at different firms in large population centers. I can only compare myself to people at my own firm in small rural towns like myself.
We just had our second best month in a year though so I have to admit being on goals actually helped us. I’'m determined not to slack.
The events of the past year are unprecedented. We’re all in uncharted territory.
Jones is doing a lot of things to keep us employed, if not happy.
Changing the goals percentage is a short term fix. They are making is a moving target. When the firm is in a high bonus bracket and things are going well the goals numbers will be higher. Times like this, they get lower. Goals used to be the kiss of death. You just simply didn't have time for the process to work. If you didn't have the money in the pipeline coming in, you were screwed. They're changing that process. I think it's a wise move. From a relationship standpoint it's much better to have someone that the clients know, even if it is a relatively new FA, sitting in that desk than some new guy. Nothing like a bad market and an new guy in the office to start the ACATs coming in. They've also started an asset gathering contest. First I've seen in over 12 years. Between now and the end of April with every new relationship I start and bring money over, they'll pay me $1 per $1000. So, the $1 mil in new money I have on the fence right now should mean an extra $1000 bonus here in the near future. If I can do the work to get it over here. So, why do I want to work for a company that would rush in at the 23rd hour and save my job? Because they did. Because they could have just simply said screw you. But, they didn't. I have a few friends in my region who have just been handed a new lease on life. Jones just handed them a do over slip. They've now got about 6 months to transform their business. They've been given the opportunity to do it, now they have to decide if they want it or not and work accordingly. I think it will be good for the company in the long run.I'm not saying you did Sword but when I was there and someone got put on goals very few made it and I always wondered "how in the hell did that guy pull it out? Did he work his ass off and find that much new money or did he have to make a moral decisions?" No one will know except that individual broker. I truly believe some just had the money come through that they had been waiting on but I also trly believe some moved money around. I've believe that's what getting put on goals does to you, you get backed into a corner and you fight to survive.I think it’s a good move.
Now we can concentrate on our clients and growing our businesses and not on losing our seats. I can’t compare myself to people at different firms in large population centers. I can only compare myself to people at my own firm in small rural towns like myself.
We just had our second best month in a year though so I have to admit being on goals actually helped us. I’'m determined not to slack.
The events of the past year are unprecedented. We’re all in uncharted territory.
LOL...LMFAO...Now my day is complete...I knew good ole Noggin wouldn't disappoint! Find a way to put a negative spin on a company trying to save it's employees who are struggling due to this once in a lifetime (hopefully) huge economic/market decline. Why would anyone want to work for that type of company...i'll tell you why....because they actually care about their employees unlike mother merrill & others who are axeing (sp) people left and right and couldn't care less if you walked out the door and drove off a cliff. Now...personally, I am not on or near "goals"....but when I saw this memo, I thought ...wow...what a company I work for...and believe me ...I have worked for many large companies in the corporate world and seen my share of "F you" leadership. And for the record, I too am in a region that is not near 75% below expectations, however, there are more than usual due to the environment..the brokers that were going to fail will still likely fail...but this move was just another reason why we are rated best place to work for in the brokerage business.[quote=breaking news]Edward Jones announced today that they are suspending the “goals” program this month and lowering the % required in future months based on firm profitability. This comes in response to so many FAs being below firm expectations. I know in our region over 75% of the FA’s selling 2-10 yrs are below and many were on the brink of going on goals. This should save a lot of jobs and retain a lot of AUM that would have left with some of these FAs. I think it was a good move. [/quote]
Why would you want to be employed at a company that would have to rush in at the 23rd hour to potentially save your job??
They aren’t looking out for you… They are looking out for themselves because they can’t attract enough transfer brokers to fill the offices that would be empty in 4-6 months and they didn’t want to see their revenue(read 12b-1 fees) dwindle any more than it already has due to market conditions… If you can’t put together a 10-15K month and you have been out longer than 5 years… YOU SHOULD BE DOING SOMETHING ELSE…
P.S.
I think LPL now has more former EDJ guys doing over $150K than, EDJ does now.. Odd..[quote=Lou Mannheim, CFP]I think this is hilarious! Expensive business model, veteran advisors carrying the firm for years and being recruited like crazy, Regional meetings where the number one focus is growth, growth, growth, all these resources being dumped into training brand new advisors how to door knock. Is this really sustainable? [/quote]
No.
This is an old retail scam. Grow, grow, grow your locations so that it looks like you are a rapidly growing company. The bubble eventually pops. (See GAP, Talbots, Starbucks, etc.)
For a really great read and a look at how one of these “Grow, Grow, Grow” ponzi’s ends up check out this article on Florida and it’s basic economic driver…1,000 new residents a day. Til last year when they only added a total of 5,000 new residents. At least the weather’s nice!
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/02/09/090209fa_fact_packer
I also think Jones lacks the tools and products to keep up… I would be willing to be that the average Jones account is $125K…
Do they still charge $1300 per month for communication fees?
It's not the tools or products. I think it's their philosophy and strategy. They focus on guys opening up as many accounts as humanly possible in the first 5-8 years. Large producer in our region has about $180mm AUM, but like 1200 households (been out about 18 years). So his average account is like $150K. He is starting to get rid of accounts (Goodknighting them) and he said he could easily shed 500 housholds and barely dent his AUM. He said his top 350 households account for 85% of his assets, so about a $450K average. Problem is, guys at Jones traditionally don't like to get rid of accounts, so it drags the average account size down. Honestly, though, there are lots of wirehouse FA's just like this, especially in the suburban areas.I also think Jones lacks the tools and products to keep up… I would be willing to be that the average Jones account is $125K…
The GP's should be circling the wagons to protect what they have vs go out and recruit new blood. The growth model at Jones will go the same way any other street corner business has. It will have to contract at some point just like Starbucks, etc.
Jones is no different than any other enterprise and to have an office with staff on many street corners or shopping centers with all the costs involved can only make sense if the markets work. If there is no bonus (remember GP's still get their dough) the seasoned reps are scratching their heads wondering why the firm isn't take care of them. I know Spiff....its a great firm and they are so sincere that they are giving the starving FA 6 months grace period before the axe falls.
Maybe the approach that would make sense is to contract offices, reduce staff, and consolidate assets with those that can do the work. It's kind of like Obama's mortgage plan, it helps those who shouldn't receive help because they should have never received the loan in the first place. Rewarding those for bad behavior....God I sound like Rick Santelli now (by the way google his rant on CNBC, it is thought provoking if not hilarious...even the White House responded)!Foot, you make good points. Jones has sort of made it’s own bed. We are a company that is probably 1/2 new FA’s (under say 5 years). Problem is, the model works great when we are ina raging bull, like from 82-99, and people are making money. But in a secular bear market that could last years (or decades), the model will get killed because the bottom half of FA’s get hammered.
I agree with the other post, Jones is not doing this out of a big heart. They are protecting their investments (in newly minted and trained FA's).[quote=B24]Foot, you make good points. Jones has sort of made it’s own bed. We are a company that is probably 1/2 new FA’s (under say 5 years). Problem is, the model works great when we are ina raging bull, like from 82-99, and people are making money. But in a secular bear market that could last years (or decades), the model will get killed because the bottom half of FA’s get hammered.
I agree with the other post, Jones is not doing this out of a big heart. They are protecting their investments (in newly minted and trained FA's). [/quote] Ok....so let's say that is the worst case.....then it's a win win!Jones is lucky they leased instead of bought all their offices
And back in my day many leases were negotiated with 3 month out clauses. But the capital it takes to open those offices is significant, I see this market as an opportunity for Jones to help those who they think can make it while making it look like they are a firm that really cares about their employees.
Many former Jones reps cringe when we think any firm really cares about their replacable components (FA's). Spiff... this is one time I will say Jones is different than other firms, they just make it look like they care.
If this is an evil GP conversation, which you have turned it into, it is absolutely not in the best interest of the GPs to continue to hold onto these folks who aren't at least at location gain. Jones isn't upping the ante on growth. They're following the plan they set out last year or the year before. Just because the market is down doesn't mean that baby boomers aren't retiring. Maybe some of them hold on for a few more years, but they'll retire eventually. While the rest of the industry is contracting, Jones is expanding. Call it buying more shares when the prices are down.
I think this move is absolutely a circle the wagons move. They are protecting what they have. Record numbers of advisors are below expectations. After this month, FAD probably couldn't keep up with the number of people on goals. Something had to be done. So, instead of sticking with the old line of too bad so sad, they said we're gonna give you a break. They'll probably save some of the FAs, but the ones who are destined to fail still will. As the market, and firm production, gets better the goals line gets higher. So, you can't skate by at 31% of standard forever. Spin it however you like. There's a ton of FAs out there that are thankful they have a job and benefits next month. So, they'll be trying to figure out how to get money out of their clients pockets instead of yours and mine from the unemployment office.now Jones will have zombie IRs all over the firm
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
If this is an evil GP conversation, which you have turned it into, it is absolutely not in the best interest of the GPs to continue to hold onto these folks who aren't at least at location gain. Jones isn't upping the ante on growth. They're following the plan they set out last year or the year before. Just because the market is down doesn't mean that baby boomers aren't retiring. Maybe some of them hold on for a few more years, but they'll retire eventually. While the rest of the industry is contracting, Jones is expanding. Call it buying more shares when the prices are down.
I think this move is absolutely a circle the wagons move. They are protecting what they have. Record numbers of advisors are below expectations. After this month, FAD probably couldn't keep up with the number of people on goals. Something had to be done. So, instead of sticking with the old line of too bad so sad, they said we're gonna give you a break. They'll probably save some of the FAs, but the ones who are destined to fail still will. As the market, and firm production, gets better the goals line gets higher. So, you can't skate by at 31% of standard forever. Spin it however you like. There's a ton of FAs out there that are thankful they have a job and benefits next month. So, they'll be trying to figure out how to get money out of their clients pockets instead of yours and mine from the unemployment office. [/quote] Creating how many moral/ethical choices to be made? "How do I hit that bogey?" Remember when Putnam was going down in flames. Compliance looked the other way and how many Seg 1's had best months ever moving from Putnam to American Funds.Smart move. Keeps the struggling 2 to 5-year FAs on board – prospecting, developing relationships, cultivating clients; in short, putting themselves in a position to grow their businesses when market sentiment changes. A year or three when the climate changes, a lot of money will be put to work. And demographic trends are still working in Jones’ favor.
On the other hand, maybe if we don’t grow and stay in the bonus bracket, the partnerships become less valuable, the vets start drifting away and the firm goes broke.
This is a great move by EJ.
The only problem I see is that they should have done this a year ago. Jones supposedly takes the long-term outlook. Identify the people that are prospecting and making their calls, circle the wagons around those people. Cut the chaff quick.
From a strategic point of view, they could have lowered their growth goals to adjust for the current economic climate and at the same time be a little more selective in how they open offices (instead of one on every corner, have one on every other corner).
Just my two cents. I hope they hang on to the starving brokers who will no longer be on goals. Makes it easy to poach their clients. These guys are so desperate, they’ll be pulling out the old, “Repositioning of Assets/Switch letter”.
Can’t wait.
If this is an evil GP conversation, which you have turned it into, it is absolutely not in the best interest of the GPs to continue to hold onto these folks who aren't at least at location gain.
Spiff- I'll agree with you that I don't hold much love for the GP's (i.e., I don't trust them and their agenda which in my opinion has nothing to do with the FA). The GP's look at you and your brethren as interchangeable parts. B24 realizes this, why you continue to defend the mother ship at all costs is mind boggling. But we have had many conversations regarding the merits of Jones over the years, let's take a different perspective. Let's look at Starbucks for a moment... What did they do, what was their business model, and why did they change. Starbucks had coffee shops everywhere. Profits went through the roof, stock soared and then a funny thing happened. Competition came in and withered away some profits. Commodity prices increased but they were not able to increase because of competition so they absorbed the higher costs eroding profits. They tried gimmicks like adding food and music and WIFI etc...but profits didn't increase they shrank. And then the buyers weren't flocking to Starbucks for 3 lattee's a day...soon it was once a day or not at all. So what did they do, they cut stores out because the reality is that customers who really wanted Starbucks coffee that bad would drive to the next block or strip mall usually within a short distance to get their cup of JOE. So did the all the customers of Burger King, McDonalds, etc... Sooner or later the growth model stagnates. If your reps are failing its because of many factors, not the least of which is that there are far too many Jones reps competing for the same type of client. Assume for a moment that there are a finite number of customers that want the Jones model. There is a finite number of clients in the universe so one has to assume each firm has a finite number as well. Spiff, I applaud you for continually attmepting to demonstrate frequently that your firm is different. Maybe your firm is different in that they keep people longer than they should. Maybe your firm is different because they show compassion to struggling reps by giving them more time to improve before they are put on goals. Please don't try to insult the rest of us or attack us because we challenge you and your thought process. Jones is no different than any other entity with multiple locations. It's overkill and at some point I would suspect that Jones will change to protect their turf. This conversation isn't about the evil GP. It's about the business model that they manage. It isn't sustainable especially if we are in a protracted difficult market. I would submit to you that the fact your newer reps are struggling (and talking to some of my former colleagues at Jones they are down 30% over last year and have been with Jones more than 5 years) you are either not honest with yourself or you are playing head games. Hell, I had a great year last year up 47.5%. YTD I am down 28% over last years numbers. It's industry wide, but if I can take anything away from my situation, as an indy my net, after all expenses, is 28% higher so I am able to survive with less revenue.Why is that a problem? My average account size is well under $125K; in fact it's most certainly under $100K. My average household might be under $100K, i'm not honestly sure. [/quote] Yeah but judging by your posts, you run a feebased practice... Most at Edj are taking the pop up front then the 25bps trail... so if you are charging 1.0% then the jones rep would need the account to be $400K to equal what you are getting(not counting the difference in payout)... that's why it is a problem..[quote=Squash1]I also think Jones lacks the tools and products to keep up… I would be willing to be that the average Jones account is $125K…
Somewhere before on this board I posted a conversation I had with a GP in St. Louis, I think he was in charge of new broker training or something and I asked him when they thought they would reach market saturation and he said they didn’t believe they ever would. Somebody Spiff or B24 or maybe somebody else defended that position on the post, what they say still doesn’t resonate with me. I think the industry is over-saturated and this is good for the industry as it’s thinning the heard.
That’s what’s made it so difficult for us Jonesies in this market. Our business model is one of new money–month after month after month.
I'm still bringing in assets, but out here in the country, if it doesn't have FDIC written all over it, it ain't gettin' bought.That’s one of the reasons I left and switched what I was doing… I figured I could really help 100 people or kind of help 600…
Got sick of the dot, the new money month after month, new accounts(that I would never talk to again).. just to get by...wasn't worth it..I love how the word “ponzi” has become the new, all-encompassing vernacular insult for any business model that someone disagrees with. What a joke…it’s like a fad…probably from too much CNBC.
Rick Santelli, by the way, is an ignorant, selfish, un-American, morally questionable moron. C'mon..."How many of you people want to pay for your neighbor's mortgage...." Ever hear of "Love thy neighbor"...how about "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"...perhaps you've heard, "Ask not what your country can do for you...ask what you can do for your country".... In the wake of the worst financial crisis that any of us are ever to likely endure in our lifetimes, it is petty and vengeful to let those that made the critical mistakes that ultimately led us here to simply rot. Put the shoe on the other foot...you bought a house you couldn't afford...you loaned money irresponsibly...you made a mistake...maybe you thought it was a good idea at the time....maybe you didn't have the foresight to see the eventual outcome (that pretty much means everybody except that guy that shorted everything)... If YOU made the mistake...and YOU were now in the worst posible case scenario...would YOU want to be left to rot or would YOU want some help.... Love thy neighbor....Do unto others...do for your country. Screw Rick Santelli. Jerk. For the record I am NOT a Jesus freak...I am, in fact, an atheist. I may not be a believer, but I recognize the moral truths and principles espoused in every major religion known to man.THe problem with your put the shoe on the other foot is… most of us aren’t dumb enough to buy a house we couldn’t afford…
I don't want to bail out people who should have never bought homes in the first place...(And yes they knew they couldn't afford it when they signed.).. My neighbor(not mine but in general) is killing my house price because his house is being sold short which in turn drives down the prices in the entire neighborhood.. So screw my neighbor...He got himself into it, he should have to walk the plank for it... What ever happened to responsibility.. I screwed up, I must fix it... Now it is, I screwed up, everybody help poor me..I love how you haters predict the end of Edward Jones every day on this forum. I also love how if 3 of you spew the same retarded babble it becomes a fact. If each of you know how to run (or not run) a brokerage firm why haven’t you done it? Lemme take a guess here. You have no idea what you are talking about?
I can just imagine the overwhelming frustration that when the opportunity of a lifetime came for Edward Jones to fail (like Merrill or Wachovia or etc.) Jones did not participate in any of the things that caused the failures. If you all hold hands and concentrate very very hard....maybe, just maybe you can cause Jones to go under. Brilliant as you all are I wouldn't bet too much on it. I will check here every day to see if Edward Jones is still in business. I'm betting a lot it will be.[quote=Squash1]THe problem with your put the shoe on the other foot is… most of us aren’t dumb enough to buy a house we couldn’t afford…
I don't want to bail out people who should have never bought homes in the first place...(And yes they knew they couldn't afford it when they signed.).. My neighbor(not mine but in general) is killing my house price because his house is being sold short which in turn drives down the prices in the entire neighborhood.. So screw my neighbor...He got himself into it, he should have to walk the plank for it... What ever happened to responsibility.. I screwed up, I must fix it... Now it is, I screwed up, everybody help poor me..[/quote] Let's say you took a wrong turn in the middle of nowhere...oops you forgot to fill up your tank before you left...oops you left your cell phone at home...would you want some passerby to stop and help you or leave you for dead b/c you didn't plan properly. Stop being so self centered, Santelli. Self-Centered Santelli....hmmm....kinda got a ring to it! Seriously...I believe in personal responsibility as much as anyone...probably more than most. There comes a point, however, that one has to look at the big picture and serve the greater good. Letting your neighbor (multiplied by millions and millions of other neighbors) for dead will only make the problem bigger. The fact is we are all going to take it on the chin b/c of others' stupid decisions. Well...quitcherbitchin and take it like a man.The Jones model is an interesting one. But you need some perspective. If you live in an over-saturated market (i.e. STL), then you perception is that there is a jones office on every corner. But let's look at the numbers...10,000 offices, 50 states, that's 200 offices per state on average (obviously the averages aren't accurate in this case). I live in a REALLY small state. Like, REALLY small. And we have about 60+ offices. OK, I would say we could easily add another 100 offices and not even have one in every town. There is one FA every 5 or 6 towns. Some cities have 4 or 5, and they are BARELY reaching 2% market penetration. Our market is WAY underserved, and there is TONS of money around us. I am CERTAIN that I am not the only region in the country like this. Half the country looks like us. Keep in mind, in most non-urban, non-coast(expensive) locations, a $50mm office would be very profitable and the FA would make a decent living. I know FA's doing that in towns of 2500 people. So, perception and frame of reference counts a lot when looking at our firm's model. I think they are over-saturated in some markets, but have TONS of room to grow across the U.S. The other thing to remember that benefits our model is that we can stick profitable offices where wirehouse firms could not or would not choose to operate. When you have two people operating out of a 1000 SQ.FT. office paying $800/mo. in rent and paying one BOA $10/hr. in the middle of nowhere, it's not tough to be profitable. No, the same cannot be said in New York/southern CT, California, etc. but that is a small piece of the pie for us. There are over 1200 FA's in Missouri and Illinois alone. There are less than 700 in all of New England, New York, PA, MD, DC, and Delaware combined. And I can GUARANTEE there is more wealth there. We just have to get there.Somewhere before on this board I posted a conversation I had with a GP in St. Louis, I think he was in charge of new broker training or something and I asked him when they thought they would reach market saturation and he said they didn’t believe they ever would. Somebody Spiff or B24 or maybe somebody else defended that position on the post, what they say still doesn’t resonate with me. I think the industry is over-saturated and this is good for the industry as it’s thinning the heard.
[quote=noggin] [quote=breaking news]Edward Jones announced today that they are suspending the “goals” program this month and lowering the % required in future months based on firm profitability. This comes in response to so many FAs being below firm expectations. I know in our region over 75% of the FA’s selling 2-10 yrs are below and many were on the brink of going on goals. This should save a lot of jobs and retain a lot of AUM that would have left with some of these FAs. I think it was a good move. [/quote]Why would you want to be employed at a company that would have to rush in at the 23rd hour to potentially save your job??
LOL…LMFAO…Now my day is complete…I knew good ole Noggin wouldn’t disappoint! Find a way to put a negative spin on a company trying to save it’s employees who are struggling due to this once in a lifetime (hopefully) huge economic/market decline. Why would anyone want to work for that type of company…i’ll tell you why…because they actually care about their employees unlike mother merrill & others who are axeing (sp) people left and right and couldn’t care less if you walked out the door and drove off a cliff. Now…personally, I am not on or near “goals”…but when I saw this memo, I thought …wow…what a company I work for…and believe me …I have worked for many large companies in the corporate world and seen my share of “F you” leadership. And for the record, I too am in a region that is not near 75% below expectations, however, there are more than usual due to the environment…the brokers that were going to fail will still likely fail…but this move was just another reason why we are rated best place to work for in the brokerage business. [/quote]
Hey Kool-Aid, while I’m happy for those struggling brokers that Edward D. Jones has eased the numbers, please don’t delude yourself, or worse try to delude others, that the move is sheer altruism on the part of corporate. It’s a business decision…nothing more or less.
LOL...LMFAO...Now my day is complete...I knew good ole Noggin wouldn't disappoint! Find a way to put a negative spin on a company trying to save it's employees who are struggling due to this once in a lifetime (hopefully) huge economic/market decline. Why would anyone want to work for that type of company...i'll tell you why....because they actually care about their employees unlike mother merrill & others who are axeing (sp) people left and right and couldn't care less if you walked out the door and drove off a cliff. Now...personally, I am not on or near "goals"....but when I saw this memo, I thought ...wow...what a company I work for...and believe me ...I have worked for many large companies in the corporate world and seen my share of "F you" leadership. And for the record, I too am in a region that is not near 75% below expectations, however, there are more than usual due to the environment..the brokers that were going to fail will still likely fail...but this move was just another reason why we are rated best place to work for in the brokerage business. [/quote][quote=noggin] [quote=breaking news]Edward Jones announced today that they are suspending the “goals” program this month and lowering the % required in future months based on firm profitability. This comes in response to so many FAs being below firm expectations. I know in our region over 75% of the FA’s selling 2-10 yrs are below and many were on the brink of going on goals. This should save a lot of jobs and retain a lot of AUM that would have left with some of these FAs. I think it was a good move. [/quote]
Why would you want to be employed at a company that would have to rush in at the 23rd hour to potentially save your job??
As always, Hey Kool Aid you misunderstand the point. The point is that as an employee the employer can always change the rules. This time it worked in the struggling broker's behalf. I have several friends at Jones and all I can think is how sorry I feel for my friends being bled dry......38% net before all their expenses are counted, about 25-28% after......It actually would have been kinder for Jones to have cut out those brokers that are more than 3 years out and still doing less than 15K a month......If they truly cared about their employees they wouldn't freeze pay increases for the BOA's and certainly would pay for the GP's wife's to accompany on regional meetings. Come on now guys, the GP's are suffering.......
BTW, what did LP average last year??
The Jones model is an interesting one. But you need some perspective. If you live in an over-saturated market (i.e. STL), then you perception is that there is a jones office on every corner. But let's look at the numbers...10,000 offices, 50 states, that's 200 offices per state on average (obviously the averages aren't accurate in this case). I live in a REALLY small state. Like, REALLY small. And we have about 60+ offices. OK, I would say we could easily add another 100 offices and not even have one in every town. There is one FA every 5 or 6 towns. Some cities have 4 or 5, and they are BARELY reaching 2% market penetration. Our market is WAY underserved, and there is TONS of money around us. I am CERTAIN that I am not the only region in the country like this. Half the country looks like us. Keep in mind, in most non-urban, non-coast(expensive) locations, a $50mm office would be very profitable and the FA would make a decent living. I know FA's doing that in towns of 2500 people. So, perception and frame of reference counts a lot when looking at our firm's model. I think they are over-saturated in some markets, but have TONS of room to grow across the U.S. The other thing to remember that benefits our model is that we can stick profitable offices where wirehouse firms could not or would not choose to operate. When you have two people operating out of a 1000 SQ.FT. office paying $800/mo. in rent and paying one BOA $10/hr. in the middle of nowhere, it's not tough to be profitable. No, the same cannot be said in New York/southern CT, California, etc. but that is a small piece of the pie for us. There are over 1200 FA's in Missouri and Illinois alone. There are less than 700 in all of New England, New York, PA, MD, DC, and Delaware combined. And I can GUARANTEE there is more wealth there. We just have to get there.[/quote] I agree.. I happened to be in that over saturated area.... They had plans for a broker for every 5K people(not households) and that was just over doing it in my area.. What ends up happening is the Jones people fight amongst themselves and neither broker gets off the ground, or one broker does really well, while another office just turns over...[quote=jkl1v1n6]Somewhere before on this board I posted a conversation I had with a GP in St. Louis, I think he was in charge of new broker training or something and I asked him when they thought they would reach market saturation and he said they didn’t believe they ever would. Somebody Spiff or B24 or maybe somebody else defended that position on the post, what they say still doesn’t resonate with me. I think the industry is over-saturated and this is good for the industry as it’s thinning the heard.
[quote=Squash1]THe problem with your put the shoe on the other foot is… most of us aren’t dumb enough to buy a house we couldn’t afford…
I don't want to bail out people who should have never bought homes in the first place...(And yes they knew they couldn't afford it when they signed.).. My neighbor(not mine but in general) is killing my house price because his house is being sold short which in turn drives down the prices in the entire neighborhood.. So screw my neighbor...He got himself into it, he should have to walk the plank for it... What ever happened to responsibility.. I screwed up, I must fix it... Now it is, I screwed up, everybody help poor me..[/quote] We're not bailing out the guy who bought a house he couldn't afford -- we're bailing out the banks who bundled that subprime mortgage with a bunch of others and turned it into a AAA-rated investment via the magic of a formula that magically eliminated risk, sold them to each other, wrapped, sliced and diced it and then borrowed against it, so that when the value of the house went down 10 percent they owed somebody else 10 times that amount.2008 = 16.1% return It was the lowest LP return in 19 years. The lowest since 1979 previous to that was 15.0% in 1988. I am guessing 2009 will be much lower. At least there is a 7.5% floor. Period Actual Return
BTW, what did LP average last year??
(With Unusual Items)* Actual Return
(Without Unusual Items) 1979 21.1% 21.1% 1980 37.3% 37.3% 1981 45.7% 45.7% 1982 57.3% 57.3% 1983 37.4% 37.4% 1984 23.5% 23.5% 1985 38.7% 38.7% 1986 56.3% 56.3% 1987 30.5% 30.5% 1988 15.0% 15.0% 1989 15.7% 15.7% 1990 17.1% 17.1% 1991 26.4% 26.4% 1992 31.6% 31.6% 1993 27.0% 27.0% 1994 20.3% 20.3% 1995 19.6% 19.6% 1996 24.6% 24.6% 1997 25.1% 25.1% 1998 33.3% 33.3% 1999 24.9% 24.9% 2000 25.4% 25.4% 2001 17.2% 17.2% 2002 16.2% 15.8% 2003 18.3% 18.3% 2004 20.1% 20.1% 2005 23.2% 20.1% 2006 22.9% 23.7%
2007
24.1%
24.1%
2008
16.1% 16.1%The Jones model is an interesting one. But you need some perspective. If you live in an over-saturated market (i.e. STL), then you perception is that there is a jones office on every corner. But let's look at the numbers...10,000 offices, 50 states, that's 200 offices per state on average (obviously the averages aren't accurate in this case). I live in a REALLY small state. Like, REALLY small. And we have about 60+ offices. OK, I would say we could easily add another 100 offices and not even have one in every town. There is one FA every 5 or 6 towns. Some cities have 4 or 5, and they are BARELY reaching 2% market penetration. Our market is WAY underserved, and there is TONS of money around us. I am CERTAIN that I am not the only region in the country like this. Half the country looks like us. Keep in mind, in most non-urban, non-coast(expensive) locations, a $50mm office would be very profitable and the FA would make a decent living. I know FA's doing that in towns of 2500 people. So, perception and frame of reference counts a lot when looking at our firm's model. I think they are over-saturated in some markets, but have TONS of room to grow across the U.S. The other thing to remember that benefits our model is that we can stick profitable offices where wirehouse firms could not or would not choose to operate. When you have two people operating out of a 1000 SQ.FT. office paying $800/mo. in rent and paying one BOA $10/hr. in the middle of nowhere, it's not tough to be profitable. No, the same cannot be said in New York/southern CT, California, etc. but that is a small piece of the pie for us. There are over 1200 FA's in Missouri and Illinois alone. There are less than 700 in all of New England, New York, PA, MD, DC, and Delaware combined. And I can GUARANTEE there is more wealth there. We just have to get there.[/quote] I agree.. I happened to be in that over saturated area.... They had plans for a broker for every 5K people(not households) and that was just over doing it in my area.. What ends up happening is the Jones people fight amongst themselves and neither broker gets off the ground, or one broker does really well, while another office just turns over...[/quote] B24, I agree that maybe across the U.S. there might be room to grow out in the many hamlets. And being with Jones I have experienced first hand the 50mm office guy who is making a killing especially in comparison to his neighbors. My experience comes from a market that has 30 reps in a city of 200m-250m. Now to look at that the home office sees tremendous opportunity. We've only got 2% market share there, let's add more offices. But I do not think it is correct to say that the market is underserved. Not when you throw in all the old A.G. Edwards, Smith Barney, Merril No More, bank, insurance agencies, and countless other firms. The home office may feel that it is underserved by Jones with only 2% penetration but not by the industry as a whole. Here's the way I see it. We've all seen an office that has had 5, 6, maybe 7 brokers go through it. Is it really true that all those guys/gals just didn't do the work. Or maybe could there be other factors involved. Things like area of town with a low median household income or maybe their prospecting area is too small because all the Jones reps got together with a map of the town and drew a radius around each office that delineated where they could and could not door knock. Maybe the market took a sh*t and nobody wanted to invest It amazes me the amount of money that people can have. But to say that they are underserved isn't always true.[quote=B24][quote=jkl1v1n6]Somewhere before on this board I posted a conversation I had with a GP in St. Louis, I think he was in charge of new broker training or something and I asked him when they thought they would reach market saturation and he said they didn’t believe they ever would. Somebody Spiff or B24 or maybe somebody else defended that position on the post, what they say still doesn’t resonate with me. I think the industry is over-saturated and this is good for the industry as it’s thinning the heard.
Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch....you're sooooooo perfect and have never made a mistake that somebody else bailed you out on. I call bullsh!t on that one! Everybody's so quick to judge. What gives you the right??? And don't tell me, "Well, I'm not the one that blah blah blah...." Maybe not...but you're dad or your girlfriend or your brother or sister did. And then I, my best friend, my father-in-law, and my colleague all lost our jobs in the carnage that ensued. Yes...I became one of the doom and gloom statistics on CNBC. At least I don't sound like an angry teenager like you selfish, inconsiderate, know-it-all, Rick Santelli wannabes. Grow up...do something positive for your community...and, no, Rotary club (et. al.) doesn't count cuz you know and I know you only joined for the contacts. Man...I hope you don't have kids...the heap-of-dung attitude you'd teach them.
Lemme ask you a question. What are YOU doing to help the economy? What are YOU doing to help the MILLIONS of distressed AMERICANS that are on their frickin' knees PRAYING that they don't end up destitute and financially ruined for life?
I'm not so deluded that I don't see that people shoud reap what they sow...but we're past all that now. We've gone beyond the point where allowing nature to take it's course is the best avenue for all of us. If we weren't, then our government wouldn't have spent $1.5T to intervene. Intervention was and is necessary...that means help the people/companies that put us ALL in this predicament. That means correcting the mistakes of others in order to help ourselves. Otherwise...lest we all take your stance on things...the state of affairs we're enduring today will feel like the "good 'ole days". Don't confuse capitalism with patriotism...they're not the same. I love capitalism...but I love my country more...and that means making sacrifices...ask anyone that's served their country. I've never had the honor due to health reasons, but I grew up on military bases around the world, so I know first hand the level of sacrifice one makes in the name of their country. And it's a lot more profound and a lot bigger than simply paying more taxes. Make your sacrifices, take it on the chin, so that down the road you and your children can have the opportunity to enjoy the wonderful aspects of capitalism without the greed and self-absorption that got us where we are today. The same self-absorption that you are supporting and portraying in your posts. "I, I, I, I, I...me, me, me, me, me...it's all about me!" Ridiculous. I'll say it again...it's this same attitude that makes people say, "We should let these people rot for the decisions they made....I don't want to bail out these people...I don't want my tax dollars to bail out these banks...I, I, I, I, I.", that got us here in the first place. A lot of those same people happened to be in the market for a new house in the early to mid 2000's and all they thought was, "Me, me, me , me, me. I want more house. I want more equity. I, I, I, I." The fact that you didn't partake in this fiasco could simply be a matter of circumstance...maybe, maybe not. But a lot of people....good, hard-working Americans just like you did get caught up in the "housing boom" and did make the fatal errors that destroyed our financial system. I'm sure if they knew then what they know now...they might've reconsidered that particular house. Woulda coulda shoulda doesn't help anyone. What're you gonna do NOW to help your fellow countrymen? Screw Self-Centered Santelli.Aren’t you the new guy? Who can’t sell anything yet…?
Um…Fud…Not saying I disagree with you…but…do you know what industry you’re talking to? We are all self-centered a**holes or we wouldn’t be doing what we’re doing!
I personally think all parties involved have ownership in this. Some more than others. The banks the most. They knew what they were doing they just thought it wouldn't implode on them.[quote=buyandhold][quote=Squash1]THe problem with your put the shoe on the other foot is… most of us aren’t dumb enough to buy a house we couldn’t afford…
I don't want to bail out people who should have never bought homes in the first place...(And yes they knew they couldn't afford it when they signed.).. My neighbor(not mine but in general) is killing my house price because his house is being sold short which in turn drives down the prices in the entire neighborhood.. So screw my neighbor...He got himself into it, he should have to walk the plank for it... What ever happened to responsibility.. I screwed up, I must fix it... Now it is, I screwed up, everybody help poor me..[/quote] We're not bailing out the guy who bought a house he couldn't afford -- we're bailing out the banks who bundled that subprime mortgage with a bunch of others and turned it into a AAA-rated investment via the magic of a formula that magically eliminated risk, sold them to each other, wrapped, sliced and diced it and then borrowed against it, so that when the value of the house went down 10 percent they owed somebody else 10 times that amount. [/quote] Actually...I'm pretty sure we're bailing out both. The guy who bought the house he couldn't afford using some fancy 80/20 variable no-money-down ARM that is now getting "modified" and the bank that ultimately bought the mortgage and repackaged it into a variety of funky "AAA" securities. 10X??? I've heard that the Lehman's and the AIG's were leveraged 35 to 1 or more against these freaking things!Squash:
yep jk: You're absolutely right. All parties do have some ownership in this. The banks do have the most (IMO as well). Just the same, letting the major banks fail will not do anyone any good. It'll tighten up credit even more so than it is causing housing prices to go even further into the sh!tter. It'll seal the fate of the Big 3 putting hundreds of thousands more out of work causing even more unemployment insurance (read taxes) and more foreclosures and more bankruptcies. The construction, steel, textile, auto parts, and hardware industries (as well as several others, I'm sure) will decline as a result, causing even more layoffs, more foreclosures, and more bankruptcies. The CPI will fall even more causing the dollar to go through the roof which in turn will cause stocks to plummet even further. Everybody reading this is at least half educated and can see the domino effect. In my view, this bail-out, as much as I hate it, is absolutely necessary for the greater good. And, no, I'm the new guy, so I'm not fully aware of the level of self-centeredness prevalent in this industry (just what I see in the movies!), although I'm beginning to see what you mean. I hope it's not quite as bad as you're making out, but I'll find out in due time.I had an Uncle that was in Vietnam and when asked about what it was like he said “Did you see the movie Platoon?, Just like that!”
[quote=jkl1v1n6]I had an Uncle that was in Vietnam and when asked about what it was like he said “Did you see the movie Platoon?, Just like that!”
[/quote] LOL...fair enough! I guess I'll go rent Wall Street and Boiler Room again and watch them over and over with my eyelids forced open ( a la A Clockwork Orange) until I change the way I look at things.The Jones model is an interesting one. But you need some perspective. If you live in an over-saturated market (i.e. STL), then you perception is that there is a jones office on every corner. But let's look at the numbers...10,000 offices, 50 states, that's 200 offices per state on average (obviously the averages aren't accurate in this case). I live in a REALLY small state. Like, REALLY small. And we have about 60+ offices. OK, I would say we could easily add another 100 offices and not even have one in every town. There is one FA every 5 or 6 towns. Some cities have 4 or 5, and they are BARELY reaching 2% market penetration. Our market is WAY underserved, and there is TONS of money around us. I am CERTAIN that I am not the only region in the country like this. Half the country looks like us. Keep in mind, in most non-urban, non-coast(expensive) locations, a $50mm office would be very profitable and the FA would make a decent living. I know FA's doing that in towns of 2500 people. So, perception and frame of reference counts a lot when looking at our firm's model. I think they are over-saturated in some markets, but have TONS of room to grow across the U.S. The other thing to remember that benefits our model is that we can stick profitable offices where wirehouse firms could not or would not choose to operate. When you have two people operating out of a 1000 SQ.FT. office paying $800/mo. in rent and paying one BOA $10/hr. in the middle of nowhere, it's not tough to be profitable. No, the same cannot be said in New York/southern CT, California, etc. but that is a small piece of the pie for us. There are over 1200 FA's in Missouri and Illinois alone. There are less than 700 in all of New England, New York, PA, MD, DC, and Delaware combined. And I can GUARANTEE there is more wealth there. We just have to get there.[/quote] I agree.. I happened to be in that over saturated area.... They had plans for a broker for every 5K people(not households) and that was just over doing it in my area.. What ends up happening is the Jones people fight amongst themselves and neither broker gets off the ground, or one broker does really well, while another office just turns over...[/quote] B24, I agree that maybe across the U.S. there might be room to grow out in the many hamlets. And being with Jones I have experienced first hand the 50mm office guy who is making a killing especially in comparison to his neighbors. My experience comes from a market that has 30 reps in a city of 200m-250m. Now to look at that the home office sees tremendous opportunity. We've only got 2% market share there, let's add more offices. But I do not think it is correct to say that the market is underserved. Not when you throw in all the old A.G. Edwards, Smith Barney, Merril No More, bank, insurance agencies, and countless other firms. The home office may feel that it is underserved by Jones with only 2% penetration but not by the industry as a whole. Here's the way I see it. We've all seen an office that has had 5, 6, maybe 7 brokers go through it. Is it really true that all those guys/gals just didn't do the work. Or maybe could there be other factors involved. Things like area of town with a low median household income or maybe their prospecting area is too small because all the Jones reps got together with a map of the town and drew a radius around each office that delineated where they could and could not door knock. Maybe the market took a sh*t and nobody wanted to invest It amazes me the amount of money that people can have. But to say that they are underserved isn't always true. [/quote] J, I don't disagree. There are markets that are already well-served. But in my experience, if you are in an area of wealth, there will ALWAYS be opportunity. After all, the best opportunities out there are with people that are already clients of other brokerages. Hate to say it, but other than 401K rollovers, there's not a lot of people out there (in normal times) just sitting on 500K cash in their bank account, waiting for an advisor to call them. Most of the people with money already have advisors. So the idea is that we poach from other firms. We are just all afraid of a little competition. It's hard to expect a firm to find an area where there is (a) money, and (b) no financial advisors. Do you think Manhattan or LA is well-served? Do you think Florida is well-served? Do you think financial firms stop adding people because there's already enough advisors? At Jones it SEEMS more dramatic because we have one-man offices. Seriously, there are wirehouse offices with hundreds of brokers in major metros. It may be HARDER WORK to do it in well-served areas, but that does not mean the opportunity is not there.[quote=Squash1][quote=B24][quote=jkl1v1n6]Somewhere before on this board I posted a conversation I had with a GP in St. Louis, I think he was in charge of new broker training or something and I asked him when they thought they would reach market saturation and he said they didn’t believe they ever would. Somebody Spiff or B24 or maybe somebody else defended that position on the post, what they say still doesn’t resonate with me. I think the industry is over-saturated and this is good for the industry as it’s thinning the heard.
B24,
I agree with you most of what you said. I think the industry as a whole might be over-saturated, that may seem crazy, but look at the wash out rate in our industry. How do you survive in this business? By bringing in clients and assets, maybe we just have too many advisors all going after the same monies.I look at it like the Real Estate industry. In my little Suburbia, we must have like 300 real estate agents at like 10 different brokers. It’s ridiculous. I have a good friend that works at one of the major firms (like 25 agents in his office). He said 2 people account for 90% of the revenues in his office. The rest of the agents are just “trying it out” or have sold a house for their neighbor or cousin. Problem is, you can’t tell the difference betwen the good/experienced agents and the rest.
Same thing in this business. There are a lot of crappy advisors out there, and many of them have hung on because of inherited/orphaned assets, unscroupulous sales practices, whatever. And some have no real interest in their clients. And again, the problem is that many people have no idea what the difference is between a good advisor and a bad advisor, without a referral. After all, how WOULD you know the difference? So yes, I think there are too many assets spread too thin among too many channels. You can now get your advice/investments from wirehouses, indies, RIA's, regionals, banks, insurance agents, CPA's, online websites, your 401K providor.....The assets are just spread everywhere. 30 years ago (and less), your option was a wirehouse "stockbroker". Virtually no other channel existed for investments beyond CD's.How do you find a good advisor? Ask whatsherface from On the Money or Clark Howard…they know everything! I’ll sum it up for you…needs to be a fee based CFP…that’s all anyone needs…everybody else is a crook!
Doesn't it take a min of 3 years experience to qualify for a CFP? Kind of a chicken and egg thing...LOL...LMFAO...Now my day is complete...I knew good ole Noggin wouldn't disappoint! Find a way to put a negative spin on a company trying to save it's employees who are struggling due to this once in a lifetime (hopefully) huge economic/market decline. Why would anyone want to work for that type of company...i'll tell you why....because they actually care about their employees unlike mother merrill & others who are axeing (sp) people left and right and couldn't care less if you walked out the door and drove off a cliff. Now...personally, I am not on or near "goals"....but when I saw this memo, I thought ...wow...what a company I work for...and believe me ...I have worked for many large companies in the corporate world and seen my share of "F you" leadership. And for the record, I too am in a region that is not near 75% below expectations, however, there are more than usual due to the environment..the brokers that were going to fail will still likely fail...but this move was just another reason why we are rated best place to work for in the brokerage business.[quote=Hey Kool-Aid][quote=noggin] [quote=breaking news]Edward Jones announced today that they are suspending the “goals” program this month and lowering the % required in future months based on firm profitability. This comes in response to so many FAs being below firm expectations. I know in our region over 75% of the FA’s selling 2-10 yrs are below and many were on the brink of going on goals. This should save a lot of jobs and retain a lot of AUM that would have left with some of these FAs. I think it was a good move. [/quote]
Why would you want to be employed at a company that would have to rush in at the 23rd hour to potentially save your job??
[/quote]
As always, Hey Kool Aid you misunderstand the point. The point is that as an employee the employer can always change the rules. This time it worked in the struggling broker's behalf. I have several friends at Jones and all I can think is how sorry I feel for my friends being bled dry......38% net before all their expenses are counted, about 25-28% after......It actually would have been kinder for Jones to have cut out those brokers that are more than 3 years out and still doing less than 15K a month......If they truly cared about their employees they wouldn't freeze pay increases for the BOA's and certainly would pay for the GP's wife's to accompany on regional meetings. Come on now guys, the GP's are suffering.......
BTW, what did LP average last year??
[/quote]
Noggin: I didn't misunderstand anything. Every one of your posts that has anything to do with EDJ (and even some that don't) has the same bitter message. If we were slashing jobs left and right you would question how an FA can work for a firm that just cuts the legs out from under its Brokers just because of a bad economy! Those Brokers that are doing less than 15k/month after 3-5 years will eventually either figure out the work that needs to be done, or fall by the wayside anyway. I'm not naive and do understand that this was not a selfless act on the part of management, however, i'm alot happier that I work for someone where I feel my job is safe...particularly if I do the work! I know several FAs at other firms that were above expectations and still lost their jobs just because they have not yet reached an AUM level that their BD thinks is enough to be worth keeping them.
I don't know the LP average last year...I assume since the 0 bracket was hit in the last trimester, it was low. But, I am not yet an LP so I don't really follow it at this point, I just concentrate on new business...and it seems to be working.
Kool-Aide, see my post on previous page. LP was 16.1% in 2008. I would expect it to be around 9% in 2009. Jsut based on what I am seeing going on. If it’s over 10% I will be shocked. As a point of reference, 15% is the lowest return in the past 30 years for LP, so we got real close to that last year.
HKA, you misunderstand quite a bit actually.
You see, some of us have been haunting these boards for 10 or 15 years. I must confess that I’m one of them. You’re not the first young’un passing through singing Jones praises, and you won’t be the last. Now it’s good that you’re proud of you firm…we should all be proud of our company or we should find another more suited to us. Here’s the first of your major misunderstandings…many of us are proud of our firms and think they’re the best, the difference being that we don’t spout endless, inane drivel about how our firm is the ONLY good one and the rest are dirt. (As an aside, do they teach you that nonsense in training? )
As to Noggin, he’s way ahead of you…He was a Jones broker, and apparently a good and successful one. He was proud of his firm of course, but he asked questions in a civilized manner and ultimately decided that the grass really IS greener on the other side of the fence.
Lokk, I don’t even have a dog in this fight, but I would urge you to turn down the polemic and show some respect to others…it’s the only way that you’ll earn a modicum of respect for yourself. Of course you can do whatever you like, but be warned; if you choose to try to play hardball, wear you helmet. You’ll need it around here.
Wow...lots to get to...but lets start slow...B24..thanks...i saw your stats after I posted my message...looks good though considering the time. Ice - I am not mixing him up with bspears...I don't even respond to him because he is just doing it to get to Jones folks...Noggin just seems bitter to me...and i've seen tons of his posts and there always is a message of anti jones talk just for the sake of it. Now...Kvetch...first off son...I have been in the financial world for 20 years, so the young'un comment is a joke. Second, if you look at every post I have ever written you will see that I have NEVER said that EDJ is the best firm out there....I have said, that while it may have its flaws, it is the best for me at this time...and I think I will stay here long term...Noggin is far from way ahead of me...I will guess that he is actually way behind me as far as experience and education in the financial arena...Regarding respect...if you take a moment, and look at the comments made by the haters out there...and look objectively...you will see that they need to show some respect and not just put down a firm because they feel jilted and are looking to bash for bashing's sake. Do you really think the comment of "how can anyone work for a firm that.....blah blah blah..".is asking questions in a "civilized manner"...and showing respect? I have been on this thread for a while now...not as long as you but ..so what????....So you see, young man, if you mind your business, or at least check your facts before you respond to a message that wasn't meant for you...maybe you can get it right and not just be a basher like the bspears of the world!HKA, you misunderstand quite a bit actually.
You see, some of us have been haunting these boards for 10 or 15 years. I must confess that I’m one of them. You’re not the first young’un passing through singing Jones praises, and you won’t be the last. Now it’s good that you’re proud of you firm…we should all be proud of our company or we should find another more suited to us. Here’s the first of your major misunderstandings…many of us are proud of our firms and think they’re the best, the difference being that we don’t spout endless, inane drivel about how our firm is the ONLY good one and the rest are dirt. (As an aside, do they teach you that nonsense in training? )
As to Noggin, he’s way ahead of you…He was a Jones broker, and apparently a good and successful one. He was proud of his firm of course, but he asked questions in a civilized manner and ultimately decided that the grass really IS greener on the other side of the fence.
Lokk, I don’t even have a dog in this fight, but I would urge you to turn down the polemic and show some respect to others…it’s the only way that you’ll earn a modicum of respect for yourself. Of course you can do whatever you like, but be warned; if you choose to try to play hardball, wear you helmet. You’ll need it around here.
[quote=Philo Kvetch]HKA, you misunderstand quite a bit actually. You see, some of us have been haunting these boards for 10 or 15 years. I must confess that I’m one of them. You’re not the first young’un passing through singing Jones praises, and you won’t be the last. Now it’s good that you’re proud of you firm…we should all be proud of our company or we should find another more suited to us. Here’s the first of your major misunderstandings…many of us are proud of our firms and think they’re the best, the difference being that we don’t spout endless, inane drivel about how our firm is the ONLY good one and the rest are dirt. (As an aside, do they teach you that nonsense in training? ) As to Noggin, he’s way ahead of you…He was a Jones broker, and apparently a good and successful one. He was proud of his firm of course, but he asked questions in a civilized manner and ultimately decided that the grass really IS greener on the other side of the fence. Lokk, I don’t even have a dog in this fight, but I would urge you to turn down the polemic and show some respect to others…it’s the only way that you’ll earn a modicum of respect for yourself. Of course you can do whatever you like, but be warned; if you choose to try to play hardball, wear you helmet. You’ll need it around here.
Wow…lots to get to…but lets start slow…B24…thanks…i saw your stats after I posted my message…looks good though considering the time.
Ice - I am not mixing him up with bspears…I don’t even respond to him because he is just doing it to get to Jones folks…Noggin just seems bitter to me…and i’ve seen tons of his posts and there always is a message of anti jones talk just for the sake of it.
Now…Kvetch…first off son…I have been in the financial world for 20 years, so the young’un comment is a joke. Second, if you look at every post I have ever written you will see that I have NEVER said that EDJ is the best firm out there…I have said, that while it may have its flaws, it is the best for me at this time…and I think I will stay here long term…Noggin is far from way ahead of me…I will guess that he is actually way behind me as far as experience and education in the financial arena…Regarding respect…if you take a moment, and look at the comments made by the haters out there…and look objectively…you will see that they need to show some respect and not just put down a firm because they feel jilted and are looking to bash for bashing’s sake. Do you really think the comment of “how can anyone work for a firm that…blah blah blah…”.is asking questions in a “civilized manner”…and showing respect? I have been on this thread for a while now…not as long as you but …so what???..So you see, young man, if you mind your business, or at least check your facts before you respond to a message that wasn’t meant for you…maybe you can get it right and not just be a basher like the bspears of the world![/quote]
I know I’ll get hit for this, but I’ve got to say kool-aid, the only reason he assumed you were a youngin was because your posts sound naive and ill-informed. I won’t speak for everybody else, but my guess is that is what Noggin was trying to say… My guess is that he is NOT behind you at all in the realm of education and experience.
If you want to call anyone bitter, that’s me:), (Bitter, party of one). But I think Noggin’s posts have been well thought out and relevant. Whereas yours have just been about how great the kool-aid tastes.
At least B24 and Spiff have intelligent things to say.
I would love to have you point out a “naive and ill informed” statement that i’ve ever made on this site. I assure you, if you think you found one, it is either a time when I got frustrated and snapped at a hater…actually, thats the only time, if any, that you will find one. I’ve consistantly referenced good & bad characteristics about Jones and never been one to say “we are the best and everyone else pales in comparison”. I’ve been around long enough to know that no company is perfect and in one way,shape or form, all companies are looking out for number 1! What I HAVE done, is called out some of the posters that CONSISTANTLY make comments that are based on pure hatred of a firm based on the fact that it didn’t work for them. Just because I have Kool-Aid in my screen name, people seem to think that I am one of the people that think there is only one firm worth a damn…while actually, I feel the firm has little to do with it…it’s more about the individual advisor, now that being said, an advisor is much better suited for a firm that he/she feels comfortable with and for me, at this time at least, that firm is Jones.
As an aside...isn't funny that the Haters such as Moraen are the only ones making these type of posts...pretty sadEdward Jones IS the best…every other firm sucks! Eeeee Jaaaayyyy all the wayyyy!!!
couldn't help myself! Can't wait till my can-sell!Wow… such hatred! I am, in fact, a Jones hater. I admit it. They say admitting it is the first step.
It would seem to me someone with your vast experience would not get upset when haters say bad things about Jones. Most vets I know shrug such things off -
I have been pretty consistent in my hatred, but I think it’s been accurate. In fact I know it’s accurate because they were real events that happened to me. It’s tough sometimes to look into the mirror, but even tougher when somebody puts it in your face. You tend to resent that person.
Jones is the only brokerage firm I’ve worked at… and I’ll never work for another brokerage firm again. If Jones is the best there is out there, I’m better off on my own. And so are most people who run this type of business - just my opinion.
Also, old-timer, I’ve never known someone who is so experienced and knowledgeable to get so upset so easily.
I will continue with my hate posts, but at least I know what I am…
[quote=Squash1]That’s one of the reasons I left and switched what I was doing… I figured I could really help 100 people or kind of help 600…
Got sick of the dot, the new money month after month, new accounts(that I would never talk to again).. just to get by...wasn't worth it..[/quote] Only 600? I already have 500 and imagine I'll need another 1500 or so to survive over the years. It's all about the new money, baby![quote=Moraen]Wow… such hatred! I am, in fact, a Jones hater. I admit it. They say admitting it is the first step.
It would seem to me someone with your vast experience would not get upset when haters say bad things about Jones. Most vets I know shrug such things off -
I have been pretty consistent in my hatred, but I think it’s been accurate. In fact I know it’s accurate because they were real events that happened to me. It’s tough sometimes to look into the mirror, but even tougher when somebody puts it in your face. You tend to resent that person.
Jones is the only brokerage firm I’ve worked at… and I’ll never work for another brokerage firm again. If Jones is the best there is out there, I’m better off on my own. And so are most people who run this type of business - just my opinion.
I will continue with my hate posts, but at least I know what I am....[/quote] Everyone on this thread always talks about Spiff & B24 with respect, even if in disagreement with their opinions, and I agree with that!...Both of them on occasion, have been angry with the hatred spewed in Jones direction on this thread. I don't see how that has anything to do with experience or lack of it...it has more to do with passion and loyalty for the firm you work for. I think the naivete (sp) comes in where someone like yourself spews hatred based on your own personal experience and doesn't take all facts into account. Obviously, Jones has a lot of fans for employees...otherwise the rankings we get for best places to work for wouldn't exist. I know for a fact that there are regions out there where the leadership is flawed and people aren't treated well, favoritism/nepotism occur etc. However, my experience and many others that I know of have had great experiences with the firm. I have worked in Corporate america for 20 years and let me tell you ...there are certainly worse, more beaurocratic places to work in this world. All else aside, I definately see the benefits of independence as well...as a matter of fact, when my assets/production reach a certain point I would certainly check my options.
How OLD are you?
20 years financial world, 20 years Corporate America… what’s next 20 years in the military?
I know, I’m sorry the 20 years in the financial world are the same as Corporate. Just messing with you man.
You seem like a good guy Kool-aid. Just jerking your chain. And I think it was unfair to characterize noggin as a hater… like me.
I find it so inspirational when a person finds it within oneself to rise up above the horrific injustices and detestable treatment that one has endured and is able to show compassion, understanding and leadership rather than become consumed by anger and hatred. Like Ghandi...Christ...MLK...Rosa Parks. Hatred begets hatred. Understanding begets understanding. Kumbaya mofo!
When you die...how will you be remembered? And will your income keep up with inflation during retirement...HKA,
Posts on this forum prove there are not tons of posts from mindless Jones Lovers that babble their faith. There are far more idiotic "hater" posts from people like Philo and Moron. They beleive that if they all post something over and over it becomes true. Sadly for them it is not working. They also justify their many posts predicting the death of Jones as it is some counter balance to the 1000's and 1000's that love Jones and post it constantly. Arguing with these idiots is pointless. The facts speak for themselves even though they will ignore them and "type" their own facts..Mid 40's..and yes..the 20 years in financial and corporate are the same 20 years (no military experience i'm afraid!)...thank goodness! I'm sure all of us...haters and otherwise, could sit and have a few beers and laugh and trade lots of warstories! I have been on this forum long enough to have read Noggin's posts prior to his independence...and ever since he has been a hater in my opinion. He may be a nice guy...but i've seen quite a few rants that remind my of political discussions where no matter what the republicans do...the dems call them idiots and vice versa, regardless of the content. I haven't read many of your posts....what was your experience that made you the bitter hater that you are?How OLD are you?
20 years financial world, 20 years Corporate America… what’s next 20 years in the military?
I know, I’m sorry the 20 years in the financial world are the same as Corporate. Just messing with you man.
You seem like a good guy Kool-aid. Just jerking your chain. And I think it was unfair to characterize noggin as a hater… like me.
I just read the first five posts, but this is B.S. EJ has $1.5B in the bank, and though obviously net income is down, it is still one of the strongest companies in any business right now. Hell, you think Berkshire Hathaway isn't trying to cut back?I think this is hilarious! Expensive business model, veteran advisors carrying the firm for years and being recruited like crazy, Regional meetings where the number one focus is growth, growth, growth, all these resources being dumped into training brand new advisors how to door knock. Is this really sustainable?
Well HKA, I’m not only your better (which is obvious) but I’m your senior as well!
Quit while you’re not too far behind, kiddy.
That's ok...you'll probably die first.Well HKA, I’m not only your better (which is obvious) but I’m your senior as well!
Quit while you’re not too far behind, kiddy.
[quote=Philo Kvetch]Well HKA, I’m not only your better (which is obvious) but I’m your senior as well! Quit while you’re not too far behind, kiddy.
That’s ok…you’ll probably die first. [/quote]
The way the world seems to be going, I really don’t mind.
[quote=Hey Kool-Aid]
[quote=Soothsayer][quote=Hey Kool-Aid]
Its funny how Jones raised the bar from 14K to 18K when the market was good. They needed more revenue back then so they must really be in a pickle now. They blamed it on inflation or something. Thats comical. I thougts more assets and revenue (quantity,volume) would keep you up w/ inflation. That last increase is a HUGE increase. That tells me they REALLY needed it. Then they force FEE based accounts on everyone. Sorry but the Jones philosphy doesn’t support this type of account management. I guess they just need the fees.
I don’t know that I’d attribute anything sinister there, Indy. They were just squeezing the pigs 'til they squealed and it’s to EDJ’s credit that they realized that this year is going to be most decidedly different.
[quote=Borker Boy][quote=Squash1]That’s one of the reasons I left and switched what I was doing… I figured I could really help 100 people or kind of help 600…
Got sick of the dot, the new money month after month, new accounts(that I would never talk to again).. just to get by...wasn't worth it..[/quote] Only 600? I already have 500 and imagine I'll need another 1500 or so to survive over the years. It's all about the new money, baby![/quote] Why? 100 clients with an average of $250K is $25 millions at 1%= $250K gross @70%(payout-expenses) is $175K..[quote=ytrewq] HKA,
Ummmmm… I don’t think I’ve ever predicted the death of Jones. Oh, wait… nope.
[quote=Moraen]How OLD are you? 20 years financial world, 20 years Corporate America… what’s next 20 years in the military? I know, I’m sorry the 20 years in the financial world are the same as Corporate. Just messing with you man. You seem like a good guy Kool-aid. Just jerking your chain. And I think it was unfair to characterize noggin as a hater… like me.
Mid 40’s…and yes…the 20 years in financial and corporate are the same 20 years (no military experience i’m afraid!)…thank goodness! I’m sure all of us…haters and otherwise, could sit and have a few beers and laugh and trade lots of warstories!
I have been on this forum long enough to have read Noggin’s posts prior to his independence…and ever since he has been a hater in my opinion. He may be a nice guy…but i’ve seen quite a few rants that remind my of political discussions where no matter what the republicans do…the dems call them idiots and vice versa, regardless of the content.
I haven’t read many of your posts…what was your experience that made you the bitter hater that you are? [/quote]
HKA - not to be a bastard, but I had a rant of 25 things I hate about Jones. Much of those things happened to me or someone I was close to.
Good luck at Jones. Glad you like the Kool-Aid, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.
[quote=Moraen] [quote=Hey Kool-Aid] [quote=Moraen]How OLD are you? 20 years financial world, 20 years Corporate America… what’s next 20 years in the military? I know, I’m sorry the 20 years in the financial world are the same as Corporate. Just messing with you man. You seem like a good guy Kool-aid. Just jerking your chain. And I think it was unfair to characterize noggin as a hater… like me.[/quote]
Mid 40's..and yes..the 20 years in financial and corporate are the same 20 years (no military experience i'm afraid!)...thank goodness! I'm sure all of us...haters and otherwise, could sit and have a few beers and laugh and trade lots of warstories!
I have been on this forum long enough to have read Noggin's posts prior to his independence...and ever since he has been a hater in my opinion. He may be a nice guy...but i've seen quite a few rants that remind my of political discussions where no matter what the republicans do...the dems call them idiots and vice versa, regardless of the content.
I haven't read many of your posts....what was your experience that made you the bitter hater that you are? [/quote]
HKA - not to be a bastard, but I had a rant of 25 things I hate about Jones. Much of those things happened to me or someone I was close to.
Good luck at Jones. Glad you like the Kool-Aid, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.[/quote] Moraen - I read the 25 things post...it was actually pretty funny. I have heard/witnessed/experienced lots of things that go on here...good & bad...but I come from the Banking Industry (not broker side)...and there is so much more BS there than at Jones...regardless of what gets said on this thread, other than certain SEC stuff, they never force us to sell anything we don't want to sell...in reality they don't push anything on us either. They certainly make suggestions i.e. "A" shares etc... For example...obviously Amer Funds is the big EDJ seller, but it is actually in my best interest to use another fund family and get my trail immediately instead of having to wait 12 months from account funding. I do use some Amer Funds and lots of other things too...but I use them because I like many of the funds and the service they give is better than the others (even when they know that they will get most of the business anyway)...they did disappoint this time around, as did most, so I am broadening my horizons and looking at many other families and investments in general.
So, when we had low hurdles, low account averages, and no fee-based, we were wrong. Now we start fixing those things and......we're again, wrong.Its funny how Jones raised the bar from 14K to 18K when the market was good. They needed more revenue back then so they must really be in a pickle now. They blamed it on inflation or something. Thats comical. I thougts more assets and revenue (quantity,volume) would keep you up w/ inflation. That last increase is a HUGE increase. That tells me they REALLY needed it. Then they force FEE based accounts on everyone. Sorry but the Jones philosphy doesn’t support this type of account management. I guess they just need the fees.
[quote=Moraen] [quote=ytrewq] HKA,
Ummmmm.... I don't think I've ever predicted the death of Jones. Oh, wait.... nope.[/quote] So you predict the future and you are telepathic? Did not see your name anywhere in my post.
[quote=Hey Kool-Aid][quote=Moraen] [quote=Hey Kool-Aid] [quote=Moraen]How OLD are you? 20 years financial world, 20 years Corporate America… what’s next 20 years in the military? I know, I’m sorry the 20 years in the financial world are the same as Corporate. Just messing with you man. You seem like a good guy Kool-aid. Just jerking your chain. And I think it was unfair to characterize noggin as a hater… like me.[/quote]
Mid 40's..and yes..the 20 years in financial and corporate are the same 20 years (no military experience i'm afraid!)...thank goodness! I'm sure all of us...haters and otherwise, could sit and have a few beers and laugh and trade lots of warstories!
I have been on this forum long enough to have read Noggin's posts prior to his independence...and ever since he has been a hater in my opinion. He may be a nice guy...but i've seen quite a few rants that remind my of political discussions where no matter what the republicans do...the dems call them idiots and vice versa, regardless of the content.
I haven't read many of your posts....what was your experience that made you the bitter hater that you are? [/quote]
HKA - not to be a bastard, but I had a rant of 25 things I hate about Jones. Much of those things happened to me or someone I was close to.
Good luck at Jones. Glad you like the Kool-Aid, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.[/quote] Moraen - I read the 25 things post...it was actually pretty funny. I have heard/witnessed/experienced lots of things that go on here...good & bad...but I come from the Banking Industry (not broker side)...and there is so much more BS there than at Jones...regardless of what gets said on this thread, other than certain SEC stuff, they never force us to sell anything we don't want to sell...in reality they don't push anything on us either. They certainly make suggestions i.e. "A" shares etc... For example...obviously Amer Funds is the big EDJ seller, but it is actually in my best interest to use another fund family and get my trail immediately instead of having to wait 12 months from account funding. I do use some Amer Funds and lots of other things too...but I use them because I like many of the funds and the service they give is better than the others (even when they know that they will get most of the business anyway)...they did disappoint this time around, as did most, so I am broadening my horizons and looking at many other families and investments in general. [/quote]
So I guess you didn't listen to that little talk about financial incentives. Seriously, my last post was about the empathy I feel from my brother and sisters who are still with EDJ. In this day and time, I certainly would not want to be an employee subject to the whims of my employer. I have lived up to the agreement i signed with Jones and have just a few more days until all the hooks are out of my flesh. I am pleased with my decision and have been for quite some time. Obviously you are pleased with your decision and I hope that continues.
Ask yourself this one question, Why are GP returns never readily available to the employees of Edward Jones like the LP returns are?
[quote=ytrewq] [quote=Moraen] [quote=ytrewq] HKA,
So you predict the future and you are telepathic? Did not see your name anywhere in my post.[/quote]
I believe you were commenting on my name “Moraen” and turning it into Moron. In fact, that is the reason I took the name - I was a moron for ever being at Edward Jones - I like to poke fun at myself too.
If you weren’t talking about me - my bad.
I agree with B24 that nobody seems to be happy with anything Jones does. One conversation is negative on how many people they're letting go because of goals, the next is bashing because they lowered the goals requirements. One conversation (actually many) is about Jones being a second rate company because they didn't have a fee based account options. The next one is negative that Jones "forced" fee based accounts on everyone. I'm not sure what world you folks live it, but it's just not possible that EVERYTHING a company does is negative. Of course at the same time, it's not possible that everything is good either. But, I am never suprised that you anti-Jones folks can spin anything Jones does for the sake of your own arguement. itg - your assumptions about the fee based accounts are misinformed. There was no "forcing" of fee based accounts on anyone. They simply made it an option. It's an option that Jones would love for us to adopt because of the recurring revenue, but they're not forcing anyone to use it. This is the kind of crap statement that drives guys like me crazy. You took something that was a positive for a lot of clients and turned it into something that Jones did for a selfish reason. Isn't it possible that something like the fee based accounts could be a positive for both the client and Jones and the advisor? And I would argue that the Jones philosophy does support the fee based account. Today. Maybe not when you were here, but today it absolutely does. I don't feel like arguing the point here, but I'll leave it with if you haven't been around Jones in the last 2 years, you really don't know what you're talking about anymore. They raised the minimum bar to a level that better reflected the reality of running a profitable office these days. Used to be if you could make $20K a month you were able to get a bonus of some kind. Today, I don't even break even until I hit about $21K a month. Rent, utilities, paper, BOA pay and benes, etc all add up. When rent was $500 a month and BOAs made $12K a year maybe the $14K number was adequate. Not any longer. It had nothing to do with revenue, other than the reality of where we were. The only downside is that they waited so long to make the change.Its funny how Jones raised the bar from 14K to 18K when the market was good. They needed more revenue back then so they must really be in a pickle now. They blamed it on inflation or something. Thats comical. I thougts more assets and revenue (quantity,volume) would keep you up w/ inflation. That last increase is a HUGE increase. That tells me they REALLY needed it. Then they force FEE based accounts on everyone. Sorry but the Jones philosphy doesn’t support this type of account management. I guess they just need the fees.
Spiff, as far as forcing the fee based accounts. I meant they made everyone get licensed whether you wanted to or not. Also you don’t wake up one day and say “hey everyone, guess what, our branches aren’t profitable at 14K.” “What, I never thought to even look.” Either you make $ at 14K or you don’t. How could you not know for so long. If you realize you don’t then you raise it to 15K or whatever. Something happened to cause such a drastic increase. I’m not stupid. Maybe it was the lawsuit but don’t say you woke up one day and realized the high number better reflects the reality of running a profitable office. Although that is a smooth spin on it.
$18K
I forget they made everyone get licensed. I’m in MO, we don’t have to have the S66 to do fee based. Yet. However, FAs still don’t have to USE fee based. Let’s at least agree on that.
Think what you will, revenue, costs, greed, fear, whatever, the reality is that Jones doesn't make changes to the rules all that often as far as commissions and expectations go. It was a big jump, that's for sure. And I'm sure it made more money for Jones. Those folks who used to fly under the radar screen for years at $16-17K gross had to figure out a way to get to $18K to stay off the radar screen in the future. There weren't that many people out there that were like that, but I'm sure it did make some of them bump up their production. Overall, I'm not sure it was a big boost to the revenue stream. At the end of the day it's a tracking number. Raising that bar did little to the firm other than maybe cost them some extra expenses for all the work they now had to do with some of those people just squeaking by. Those folks instantly became below expectations people. That means some additional man hours from HQ and the field to help get those folks up to meeting again. Look, I know that every move Jones makes isn't for the complete benefit of the advisor or the clients. Sometimes they have to do things that help the firm stay profitable. You can't fault them for that. Whatever the reasoning they use. There is too much at stake for the partners, both general and limited, in addition to the employees to just let things go forever. I don't think for a second that the GPs woke up one day and said, huh, let's change the numbers just for fun. I'm sure they knew for a while that the $14K number was out of touch with reality. Whatever the catalyst was, it did need to be updated.[quote=Moraen] [quote=ytrewq] [quote=Moraen] [quote=ytrewq] HKA,
So you predict the future and you are telepathic? Did not see your name anywhere in my post.[/quote]
I believe you were commenting on my name "Moraen" and turning it into Moron. In fact, that is the reason I took the name - I was a moron for ever being at Edward Jones - I like to poke fun at myself too.
If you weren't talking about me - my bad.[/quote] Actually you are right. My mistake. When I read my own post closer I realized I did make a play on your name. Sorry for calling you out on that.
I left Edward Jones after three years.
My best year at Edward Jones was a bit better than $50k. My first year independent I made about $150k. Last year I made $257k. Any Jones rep who is fired should bless the day they walk out the door. You should expect to be sued if you leave. Jones may say they've never lost a lawsuit. What they don't tell you is how much they settle and for what amount. It's amazing to me that in a business where we have to think about the bottom line that anyone, except the Region Leaders or staff/support wonks, stays at Jones.You must be easily amazed.
Now this really pisses me off. How about the people that were let go at the end of last year. What about the Seg. 2 or 3’s that lost there job at the end of 2008. So, now they change the standards. I think its great for the existing people but really sucks for those who recently fell victim to the “goals program”. I think I am getting a bit bitter with EDJ.
Personally, I think this was another move by Weddle to try and improve the performance in the field. I think if Weddle didn't get put in charge, you would still have 10 year guys doing 15K per month without having to answer to anyone. I don't know about you, but if I wanted to put an office in XYZ town, and the guy who's had his fat a$$ in the chair for 12 years can't pull out a profitable month, and we as a company are leaving tons of assets and revenue on the table because this guy is coasting and content making 80K a year, THAT leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Yes, it seems arbitrary to go from 14 to 18K. I think if Weddle had been in charge for eyars, you would have seen gradual increases over time. But I think 14K was the "defacto" standard for so long that they jsut never addressed it. Once they did address it, they decided that the number should be based on an average profitable office. I can tell you 18K is profitable in some offices, and not others, so that seems about right. I mean, seriously, can any firm really accept someone out 5 years or more doing 168K per year?? That's just plain stupid. With trails, a few trades, and a few new assets every month, you should have no problem hitting 18K every month. It's just that a lot of FA's at Jones get this "minimum" mindset, and as long as they can get by at the minimum, they don't bother trying anymore, and their business just dies.Spiff, as far as forcing the fee based accounts. I meant they made everyone get licensed whether you wanted to or not. Also you don’t wake up one day and say “hey everyone, guess what, our branches aren’t profitable at 14K.” “What, I never thought to even look.” Either you make $ at 14K or you don’t. How could you not know for so long. If you realize you don’t then you raise it to 15K or whatever. Something happened to cause such a drastic increase. I’m not stupid. Maybe it was the lawsuit but don’t say you woke up one day and realized the high number better reflects the reality of running a profitable office. Although that is a smooth spin on it.
FYI newbies and soon-to-be newbies: Assuming a Jones FA averages 2.5% on trades over the course of a month (and that may be a tad generous), grossing $18,000 requires that $720,000 in new money be invested that month.
The next month, for all intents and purposes, you start over hunting another $720,000. Spiff is apparently knocking it out of the park; $18k gross is a really good month for me these days.BB, let’s not forget, 18K is not the minimum until about 5 years in. It is lower up until then. By the time you get to 5 years, you should have at least 10-12K in trails, fees, automatic investments, maturing/called bonds/CD’s, insurance, etc. per month. So it’s not as if you are looking for 18K from a zero base. If you find 8-10K of new-money commissions each month, you’re really looking at more like 350-400K, or less than $5mm per year. If you can’t bring in $5mm per year in new assets, you probably shouldn’t be in this business. And as you accumulate more clients and more assets, the work it takes to get to the minimum each month is minimal.
After you've been in the business several years, you really have to dismiss the "starting from zero every month" mentality. Imagine starting a fee-based business from zero. You wouldn't eat for years unless you had a salary or a huge network to explode into. It's really no different at any firm the first several years.We have several 10+ year vets in our region who are currently well below standard.
And they were rockstars when I joined the firm a few years go. Scary stuff...[quote=Borker Boy]
FYI newbies and soon-to-be newbies: Assuming a Jones FA averages 2.5% on trades over the course of a month (and that may be a tad generous), grossing $18,000 requires that $720,000 in new money be invested that month.
The next month, for all intents and purposes, you start over hunting another $720,000. Spiff is apparently knocking it out of the park; $18k gross is a really good month for me these days. [/quote] First, I'm not knocking it out of the park. I'm surviving, adding new assets, and trying to keep my family from becoming one of the recipients of Obama's new tax benefits. I've been more active with new prospects recently, which has turned into a pretty decent increase in my gross. Will probably put my second best month ever on the board this month if all things align correctly. It'll be close anyway. Second, if the only biz you are doing is new biz, then you are correct. Trails, insurance, LTC, DCA, etc all come into play. So, I'm not doing $18k in new transactions. I have some stocks that trade, bonds that come due, LTC premiums that get paid, Moneyguard, LI premiums, plus my trails. I may only do $10K in new business transactions, which could be as little as $250K coming in. It all depends. I'd LOVE to bring in $750K a month consistently. $9 mil a year is a really healthy clip. In any market, let alone this one. I'm working on getting my Advisory Solutions assets up to about $10 mil. So that I don't have to do so much new business. Only $9 mil to go!!I have seen the same thing. You ask them about their business, and they are the ones that built their business on stocks, bonds, and CD’s. Right now they aren’t collecting any fees or trails, and nobody wants to buy OR sell. That’s why most of my business is funds. Most of my individual securities are muni’s and CD’s (typically only substitutes for cash).
I do not think it's right that advisors should work for free. I find the "commissioned" stock and bond model ludicrous unless you have some way .Some way to what?
I just met with a guy who I sold an AIG VA to a couple years ago and he’s tickled pink. It was a relief to actually visit with a satisfied customer for once.
Now if AIG can just manage to honor all of those guarantees...[quote=iceco1d][quote=B24]
Imagine starting a fee-based business from zero. You wouldn't eat for years [/quote] Yup. I can verify this! Seriously.[/quote] Fortunately for you (please do correct me if I'm wrong), you don't have the house, wife, kids, etc. to support. Not good or bad, but someone in their "later years" (which could mean many things) may not possibly be able to pull it off financially without a "startup salary", which really are only offered by the wirehouses (Jones gives you a little). If I had done it when I was 25 or something, no problem. But I also don't think I would have been successful at this business at 25. Chicken or the egg.....I like to hear more about the specifics of the change in performance expectations? What did they change the % to before going on goals?
Anyone below 30% for now.
Ok, so I’ve seen you guys post a lot of things (both positive and negative) over the eight years I’ve been a broker. Lest we forget, we are all in the same business, which is helping our clients achieve their goals. That said, I thought I could add a little regarding EDJ. I started in 2001, in a metropolitan area (some of you may call it over-served, saturated, etc.). I didn’t know anyone. I didn’t grow up here. I was fresh out of college and 22 years old. So, I did what any aspiring new advisor would do, and I cold-called. It just so happened that I did it face to face, since I started at EDJ, but it would have been basically the same exercise had I started somewhere else. Lo and behold, it worked. In the midst of what was (at the time) the second worst bear market since the great depression, I managed to go out and build a business by talking to (primarily) people who were already clients of other advisors. It’s amazing how the basics work. Now, eight years later, I’m amazed at how people draw an iron curtain in the sand between firms. I am extremely content at Jones (in fact, I have held damned near every role in my region other than Regional Leader). I have helped, and will continue to help, recruit qualified advisors to EDJ. What I don’t understand, and probably never will, is the black-and-white attitude that most on this forum have between whatever they are experiencing now, and what they either have experienced in the past and/or may possibly experience in the future. Not every firm is for every person. Let me repeat that…not every firm is for every person. The key is to find the place that works the best for your clients and for you. If you are brand-new, find the firm that will give you the best start.
I realize, after eight years of reading but not posting, that I will probably find people who will lambast (sp) me for staying at Jones, as well as people who have near-fatal doses of Kool-Aid. It is to those who are somewhere in the middle that I speak: This environment is not easy. It is not pleasant. But nothing that is worthwhile is easy or pleasant. People pay us, regardless of the firm we work for, to help them retire with dignity, stay retired, educate their kids/grandkids, and pass their assets to the next generation with as little friction as possible. LET US NOT FORGET THESE POINTS! Sorry for the long post, but I guess it’s just the better part of a decade having built up.
My best.
Oh, I forgot the EDJ part…I have quite a bit of loyalty for a firm that would hire me out of college, provide training and a mentor, help me mature as an advisor, not to mention as a person, and still allow me to run my business as I see fit, so long as it is legal, ethical, and profitable. If you are one of the Kool-Aid prohibitionists, it is on these points that I imagine we will have a conversation!
StLAdvisor - Here is where I have a problem. You are thirty years old and other than a few jobs in college and maybe a few internships (possibly some high school jobs), you have no knowledge of anything outside of Jones. I’m not saying you are not content, but if you don’t know what else is out there, how can you make a comparison and know whether or not you would be happier somewhere else?
The answer is, you don't. The Jones culture is all-encompassing, you are tied to the firm as surely as a meth addict is to his pusher. I have bashed Jones and bashed Jones over and over. Most of that was my problem. I knew what I was doing when I joined Jones. There were a few things I didn't know, but I found them out and I do feel like the experience I was promised wasn't the experience I received. And our conversation continues, because you don't run a business. You run an office for Jones. As long as you realize that, we can get along fine:) And some things are black and white.Moraen, few things:
1. It doesn't matter if he's never worked anywhere else. If he is happy and can serve his clients well, why does it matter if he "might" be happier somewhere else? Happiness is subjective. You picked whatever B/D you picked. How do you know you wouldn't be happier with another B/D? And just because you are happy currently, doesn't mean that 100% of the FA's that work through your B/D are happy. Just because YOU had a bad experience with Jones, doesn't mean that EVERYONE is unhappy at Jones. Let's be realistic, there are over 11,000 FA's at Jones. A few of them are happy. 2. Lots of us that have worked prior to this business knew that we could possibly make more money at another company, in another career, or could possibly work for a "better" company. But generally, we were happy and content, and the fear of the unkown, or the danger of the unknown (maybe a new boss would suck, maybe I get the new job, then 6 months later they ask me to transfer to Toledo, maybe things get bad and the "new kid" gets laid off first, etc.) is more dangerous than staying put (you know, "the Devil you know vs. the Devil you don't know"). 3. I have been married for 15 years. Got married relatively young. Dated her for years before being married. Sure, I was with other girls before her. Some were prettier, or had bigger $%^&. Am I happy? Absolutely. Is she a pain in the a$$ sometimes? What wife isn't? Would I leave her because I "might" be happier somewhere else? I mean, geez, I've been with her most of my adult life, I don't know any better. I see all these really hot chicks, and I wonder what "that" would be like. Absolutely not. I've built a good life with her, I'm real happy, and frankly, I don't care about or need whatever else is out there. But I bet there are other guys that wouldn't be happy with her (she's a little Irish "hothead"!). 4. He never said he "owns" the business. But he does run the business. Symantics. And not everyone is interested in going solo. I know plenty of guys that haev thought about going indy, but ultimately decided that the increase in pay and freedom was not worth the simplicity they had at Jones of just opening the door in the morning and not worrying about too much else (yes, I know, being indy is "so easy" - some people just don't want to go through the hassle of finding out). I think the bottom line is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with someone being happy at Jones. And it doesn't matter whether you have been anywhere else or not. It just seems wrong to me that people come on here and claim "I was at Jones. I hated it. They screwed me. They're liars. You have to go indy. It's so much better. You Jones meatheads don't know what you don't know". Why can't you just let people be happy? Now, I am all for flaming the guys that come on here and are obviously wearing green beer-goggles. That's fun stuff. But those are usually the 23 year-old newbies that have just come back from their indoctrination in STL. See some of us, even though we have only been with Jones (in this industry), actually KNOW what else is out there. But maybe, just MAYBE, we like what we have. ....exhaleFunny thing is I could have written the exact same post STLAdvisor did about 12 months before I ultimately left and went Indy. How quickly things can change, and I am glad for that.
B24 - I think it does matter. Life experience matters. You were at different places before you were at Jones. If you haven’t experience life in other capacities… it’s hard to know what things are really like. Like you said, you dated other women before your wife, but you KNOW that all women are crazy, b/c you’ve been there.
He said he runs HIS business. That’s not semantics - word choice has nothing to do with it.
Like you said, you KNOW what is out there. He doesn’t. When I was in the Army, I thought that was how life was supposed to be. When I was in corporate management, I thought that was how life was supposed to be. By the time I got to Jones, I learned to be a little discerning.
I never said everyone was unhappy at Jones. I just don’t think you can talk about how great something is unless you’ve experienced something else.
I guess I still have to disagree. Happiness and contentment are subjective. Either you are or you are not. Just because you aren’t aware that you could be just as happy, or happier, doing something else, doesn’t negate the fact that you are happy. Because basically you are saying that everyone at Jones, Merrill, SB, MS, etc. can’t possibly claim to be happy unless they have worked somewhere else? That’s just an absurd statement. Then again, you have never worked at any of those other wirehouses, so you would have no idea whether they could possibly be happy or not.
And as far as running the business, I run "MY" business here. I play by some rules, and I pay a fee to Jones to cover most of my expenses. But I generate the revenue, I hire my assistant, and if I leave, I bring MY clients with me. If I am not mistaken, a few FA's have left Jones before and brought "their" clients with them.[quote=B24] I guess I still have to disagree. Happiness and contentment are subjective. Either you are or you are not. Just because you aren’t aware that you could be just as happy, or happier, doing something else, doesn’t negate the fact that you are happy. Because basically you are saying that everyone at Jones, Merrill, SB, MS, etc. can’t possibly claim to be happy unless they have worked somewhere else? That’s just an absurd statement. Then again, you have never worked at any of those other wirehouses, so you would have no idea whether they could possibly be happy or not.
And as far as running the business, I run “MY” business here. I play by some rules, and I pay a fee to Jones to cover most of my expenses. But I generate the revenue, I hire my assistant, and if I leave, I bring MY clients with me. If I am not mistaken, a few FA’s have left Jones before and brought “their” clients with them.[/quote]
True (I did). But at Jones, you don’t “own” the relationship. I’ll agree to disagree with you. And they come after you if you take clients - trust me.
I DO know that I would not like it at Merrill and other wires and banks - because I have had other life experiences that tell me I can’t work for anybody. Life experience - You don’t have enough when you are 22 to decide that you are going to be somewhere forever - and if you’ve already been there eight years - it’s unlikely you’ll leave Jones (or Merrill or anywhere else if all you’ve ever known is that).
I never said they couldn’t claim to be happy - or that they weren’t GENUINELY happy - I’m sure some of you are, especially those not "checking out their options ". They can be happy, but to me it’s not quite a full existence and as others have said, you truly, “Don’t know what you don’t know”. So I’ll agree to disagree with you.
Jones is a great place for a LOT of people. But how do you know if it is THE place? I know that my wife is THE one.
No Mas.
B-24 When you die and go to the other side, do you think your soul mate and your office will be waiting for you. I don't think you can compare your wife to a pile of bricks and mortar. Wait EJ owns that, I mean a book of names because their investments will not mean crap then. Trying too hard to make your point. Unless she was the first one to get drunk in VEGAS with you.
Most people look at going Indy as the final step in this industry. If your hierarchy of needs are met before you get there, then there is no reason to go further. Going Indy has a great increase in responsibility. If you get tired of EJ, you can walk away and that office will not miss a beat (2000 newbs a year itching for an open office). If you are Indy and decide one morning you never want to talk to another client, your custodian, B/D etc again that is not very well possible. (Discloser..I have only worked at Jones, so I can not speak for other places.)Jax, I have to admit, I have no idea what point you’re trying to make (whether you agree or disagree with me). If I am not mistaken, and indy can walk away from their practice and the B/D will continue to custody the assets, and their call center will take client instructions (at minimum). And most indies make arragnements with other indies to cover each other in event of death/disability.
But I will say, you’re wrong about the Vegas thing. My wife means a lot to me, and the fact that you make a reference to getting her drunk in Vegas is offensive to me. It was an arranged marriage between me and her father. I had the winning bid.
[quote=JAXSON]
B-24 When you die and go to the other side, do you think your soul mate and your office will be waiting for you. I don't think you can compare your wife to a pile of bricks and mortar. Wait EJ owns that, I mean a book of names because their investments will not mean crap then. Trying too hard to make your point. Unless she was the first one to get drunk in VEGAS with you.
Most people look at going Indy as the final step in this industry. If your hierarchy of needs are met before you get there, then there is no reason to go further. Going Indy has a great increase in responsibility. If you get tired of EJ, you can walk away and that office will not miss a beat (2000 newbs a year itching for an open office). If you are Indy and decide one morning you never want to talk to another client, your custodian, B/D etc again that is not very well possible. (Discloser..I have only worked at Jones, so I can not speak for other places.) [/quote] [quote=B24]Jax, I have to admit, I have no idea what point you're trying to make (whether you agree or disagree with me). If I am not mistaken, and indy can walk away from their practice and the B/D will continue to custody the assets, and their call center will take client instructions (at minimum). And most indies make arragnements with other indies to cover each other in event of death/disability.But I will say, you're wrong about the Vegas thing. My wife means a lot to me, and the fact that you make a reference to getting her drunk in Vegas is offensive to me. It was an arranged marriage between me and her father. I had the winning bid. [/quote] Winning bid? Are you sure about that? More then likely I am disagreeing with you. No offense, just the way I am. I was making two comments. First one was in reference to you comparing your wife to your business and my assumption that she probably means a lot more to you then your business. And to crack a joke with the Vegas thing. I guess the losing bidder got her sister? The second comment was stating my opinion on a reason of going Indy or not. I personally would like to have as much control as legally possible in my business. So for me, I would be better off on my own. Others want to max out their income potential. And the reasons go on and on. But one thing is for sure with more control, potential income, etc comes more responsibility.
Marty - I was speaking specifically to this guy. Not everyone else. Lots of people are happy with Jones for very good reasons. But I think it’s a little naive to think that someone straight out of college has enough life experience to judge the best place for themselves.
And I do consider that I don't know what I don't know. Every day, I realize how much more I DON'T know. If I had known a lot more, my transition to owning an RIA would have been a lot smoother. I realize that my experience is not EVERYTHING. It doesn't have to be. My point is simply that someone who is 22 (do you remember what that was like?) is simply ill-equipped to make a lifetime decision and say that they are at the place that will make them happy. I know one person who is an exception to that (there are probably more), but this guy was homeless when he was fourteen and survived and even thrived on the streets. He is now in medical school. I've seen 22 year olds who thought they knew everything suddenly (in one hour) change their whole perspective on life. And yes, having different careers qualifies me to tell people who have never even had one that they need more life experience. Just like someone who has more than that is qualified to tell me the same. Why? Because I do. Will my additional life experience be work-related? Unlikely, but certainly possible. It could be that in ten years I sell this thing because I've reached the point that I no longer enjoy it and I'll write books. My life experience comes from fostering special needs kids. I just don't think you can make a judgement like that without some additional experience. Sorry to ruffle your feathers.Source URL:https://www.wealthmanagement.com/forums/whats-firms/ej-changes-below-expectation-rules