Ej # 1?
[quote=Effay]
I left EJ 6 weeks ago.
It’s been going reasonably well, despite what Jones has been doing; pretty much standing in my way as much as they legally can.
And maybe not so legal, like having a retired BOA come in to the office and call clients, telling them she didnt think they should leave EJ.
Registered letters accusing me of taking files, which I didnt (I have heard this is pretty standard behavior for Jones).
Oh, and the new FA lying to clients about what I will do with their portfolios, what my fees will be, what kind of tax problems I will cause, etc. etc.
What a sh*t heel firm EJ is. Amazing what you learn about your company when you leave. No wonder ex Jones guys hate Jones!
It is truly a relief to be out from under the extremely limited investment options, the built in conflict of interest having “preferred funds” and revenue sharing creates, mediocre research and downright 1990s technology (and thats AFTER the recent upgrade).
So, Jones folks, glad you are happy. Keep nursing at that EJ titty, cause you are going to be getting less and less milk from Mama… Suck Hard, the writing is on the wall. [/quote]
Let it all out man. It helps.
Did you not expect them to try and retain their clients while you tried to steal them? Do you need a blankie?
I hope in 2.5 years if I leave Jone's I'm not back here bitching about them playing hardball with me. MAN up brother ... and best of luck! I hope you kill it.Kind of related…but i was wondering (since you brought it up) about the ‘preferred funds.’ At EJ, are you allowed to invest in those in ERISA and individual retirement accounts?
[quote=voltmoie]
Did you not expect them to try and retain their clients while you tried to steal them? Do you need a blankie?
I hope in 2.5 years if I leave Jone’s I’m not back here bitching about them playing hardball with me. MAN up brother … and best of luck! I hope you kill it.[/quote]
The only reason you won’t bitch about them playing hardball is because you said you hope you won’t be.
I think he is talking about underhanded methods that Jones uses. They try to use their pet law firm to intimidate you, and the advisor who takes over your branch talks about things he knows nothing about, “He’s going to charge you on stuff you already paid for, like 2% or more. Why would you do that Mr. Client. We’ve got this great advisory solutions program, let’s put you in that. It’ll only cost 1.3% per year!”.
If you leave volt, you’ll see. It’s not about needing a blankie, it’s about doing the right thing, which they don’t do.
There are no restrictions on those or any other fund families. It is open architecture. We have selling agreements with like 70 fund families (plus another 20 or so others in our advisory program). I sell a mix of preferred and non-preferred funds. I only use the the preferred funds that I like. I have never once had any pushback on any specific fund family I have used outside of the prefered funds. All Compliance cares about is that they are sold properly. And we are slowly (actually quickly) moving away from the "preferred funds" world. I think Weddle wants to distance himself from some of the "errors" of the past. This is just one thing among many that he appears to be changing.Kind of related…but i was wondering (since you brought it up) about the ‘preferred funds.’ At EJ, are you allowed to invest in those in ERISA and individual retirement accounts?
There are no restrictions on those or any other fund families. It is open architecture. We have selling agreements with like 70 fund families (plus another 20 or so others in our advisory program). I sell a mix of preferred and non-preferred funds. I only use the the preferred funds that I like. I have never once had any pushback on any specific fund family I have used outside of the prefered funds. All Compliance cares about is that they are sold properly. And we are slowly (actually quickly) moving away from the "preferred funds" world. I think Weddle wants to distance himself from some of the "errors" of the past. This is just one thing among many that he appears to be changing.[/quote] On a firm level, not a FA level, is there any compensation from the preferred funds to EJ (like a pay to play arrangement)?[quote=Wet_Blanket]Kind of related…but i was wondering (since you brought it up) about the ‘preferred funds.’ At EJ, are you allowed to invest in those in ERISA and individual retirement accounts?
Yes, there is still a revenue sharing agreement in place with the preferred funds.
I haven't pulled up our mutual fund spreadsheet in a while, until yesterday. I noticed that there is no longer a separate spreadsheet for our preferred funds and our non preferred funds that we follow. It's all lumped under one. I think that echoes what B24 was saying about moving away from the preferred funds. I don't know that it means that we are moving away from revenue sharing, but it's certainly a step in the right direction.Seems to me that EJ may want to run this by an ERISA lawyer…if they haven’t already. Good for them for going away from that though.
I think that has been done, and the answer is, as long as it is disclosed properly. All of Jones’ disclosures now meet the requirements of IRA/FINRA/SEC, etc.
On a sidenote, almost all major firms have the same type of revenue-sharing arrangements with fund families. It is not specific to Jones.I’m not arguing against revenue sharing, I’m just scratching my head about revenue sharing and ERISA accounts (because of the level fee requirement).
I work for a major wirehouse.
Recently a new advisor moved to our office. I asked him where he came from and he said "I sold American Funds for 15 years". I said, "oh, you were the American Funds guy?" and he smiled and said "No, I worked for Ed Jones!"There are no restrictions on those or any other fund families. It is open architecture. We have selling agreements with like 70 fund families (plus another 20 or so others in our advisory program). I sell a mix of preferred and non-preferred funds. I only use the the preferred funds that I like. I have never once had any pushback on any specific fund family I have used outside of the prefered funds. All Compliance cares about is that they are sold properly. And we are slowly (actually quickly) moving away from the "preferred funds" world. I think Weddle wants to distance himself from some of the "errors" of the past. This is just one thing among many that he appears to be changing.[/quote] On a firm level, not a FA level, is there any compensation from the preferred funds to EJ (like a pay to play arrangement)?[/quote] I have heard from what I consider a reliable source that the revenue sharing bit is compensation for a lot of the "back office" work we do for those preferred funds since we do a lot of volume with a lot of different orders.[quote=B24][quote=Wet_Blanket]Kind of related…but i was wondering (since you brought it up) about the ‘preferred funds.’ At EJ, are you allowed to invest in those in ERISA and individual retirement accounts?
They pay for the diversification trips… Rumor has it that Calamos wanted in but they refused to pay the amount Jones wanted to be on the preferred list.
I will echo what was said earlier. I have sold both preferred and non
preferred funds in my career at EDJ. I have never had any kickback from
anyone about selling nonpreffered funds, nor have I ever been pressured
to sell funds on the preferred list.
[quote=Effay]
I left EJ 6 weeks ago. It's been going reasonably well, despite what Jones has been doing; pretty much standing in my way as much as they legally can. And maybe not so legal, like having a retired BOA come in to the office and call clients, telling them she didnt think they should leave EJ. Registered letters accusing me of taking files, which I didnt (I have heard this is pretty standard behavior for Jones). Oh, and the new FA lying to clients about what I will do with their portfolios, what my fees will be, what kind of tax problems I will cause, etc. etc. What a sh*t heel firm EJ is. Amazing what you learn about your company when you leave. No wonder ex Jones guys hate Jones! It is truly a relief to be out from under the extremely limited investment options, the built in conflict of interest having "preferred funds" and revenue sharing creates, mediocre research and downright 1990s technology (and thats AFTER the recent upgrade). So, Jones folks, glad you are happy. Keep nursing at that EJ titty, cause you are going to be getting less and less milk from Mama... Suck Hard, the writing is on the wall. [/quote]Okay, that does it. I gotta call Jones and rescind my agreement. No offense to the Jones guys here who love the company, but I am now 100% sure this isn't for me. As I started the employment process, I have had to deal with:
Training people changing my start date without telling me Most local FA's giving me bad/contradicting advice about good office location (to get me out of their backyards) Market Area analyst refusing to tell me what areas are available and refusing to tell me geographical boundaries (I had to guess area names and he would only say "yes" or "no")
RL refusing to take my calls because he is "too busy and will call me back later" (I have been waiting by the phone for over 3 weeks) Received a call from the RL's BOA saying he's too busy to schedule my welcome dinner with just me, so I'll have to wait for other people to start so he can "get us all out of the way at one time" I know that no firm is perfect, but if this is the honeymoon period, I hate to see what it's like after I start. This combined with the multiple posts here about terrible experiences has me deeply concerned. The thought of being stuck somewhere for three years followed by a nasty departure doesn't sound fun.
I made the mistake of signing the Jones contract... but it's all predicated on the assumption that I actually start working for the company. I wonder what they will do when I quit before I ever start. I'd like to see them try and sue me for $75,000 for training costs even though I never worked a day for them. Based on this forum, it sounds like something they would do.
I was going to hold onto Jones while I am waiting for an offer from MSSB, but the more I think about it, I don't think I want to go to Jones even if MSSB rejects me.
Don’t let the door hit you… I’ll bet anyone on here a beer you’ll fail in 12 months piker. There is not a person at Jones that will give two sh*ts you’ve “rescinded” your offer.
In fact, e-mail me your contact information and I’ll do it for you.
[quote=voltmoie] Don’t let the door hit you… I’ll bet anyone on here a beer you’ll fail in 12 months piker. There is not a person at Jones that will give two sh*ts you’ve “rescinded” your offer. In fact, e-mail me your contact information and I’ll do it for you.
[/quote]
I’ll take the bet. Even if he fails, he’s got balls for resigning before knowing if he has another job. I’ll back him.
The type of behavior that Jones exhibits is reprehensible in this case. Great company in a lot of ways, but they are jerks when you leave.
[quote=Moraen] [quote=voltmoie] Don’t let the door hit you… I’ll bet anyone on here a beer you’ll fail in 12 months piker. There is not a person at Jones that will give two sh*ts you’ve “rescinded” your offer. In fact, e-mail me your contact information and I’ll do it for you.
[/quote]
I’ll take the bet. Even if he fails, he’s got balls for resigning before knowing if he has another job. I’ll back him.
The type of behavior that Jones exhibits is reprehensible in this case. Great company in a lot of ways, but they are jerks when you leave. [/quote]
Cool … six pack of some regional brew sent to the other.
No doubt they are jerks from our point of view but from their point of view … they are protecting their interests. Lot’s of costs with an office empty and a BOA potentially without a job. I do get a kick out of their bragging about sending out a letter to clients though, that’s classic.
Don’t worry Jones, I will be sending out my very own letter when and if I leave
Now wait a minute! If a six pack is exchanged, I deserve to get one of those beers either way. If I succeed, I deserve I victory beer. If I fail, I need a beer to drown my sorrows.
[quote=MBA2FA]
Okay, that does it. I gotta call Jones and rescind my agreement. No offense to the Jones guys here who love the company, but I am now 100% sure this isn’t for me. As I started the employment process, I have had to deal with:
Man, it would behoove you to be less sensitive about that kind of stuff. Even though you are with the same firm, its a competition. Of course they don't want you right in their back yard. Learn how to play the game. If you think the Morgan Stanley boys are going to walk into your office/cubicle and give you a stack of their leads out of the kindness of their heart you are crazy.
Market Area analyst refusing to tell me what areas are available and refusing to tell me geographical boundaries (I had to guess area names and he would only say "yes" or "no")RL refusing to take my calls because he is "too busy and will call me back later" (I have been waiting by the phone for over 3 weeks) Received a call from the RL's BOA saying he's too busy to schedule my welcome dinner with just me, so I'll have to wait for other people to start so he can "get us all out of the way at one time"
My firm didn't give away some welcome dinner to me. I was just a number until I was able to make it. RL's (I have no idea who they are, I'll assume that means Regional Leader or somethng close to that) probably don't have 1-2 hours set aside for every newbie that comes through to take to dinner and chat about life when there's an 80% chance that person won't be w/the company in a year. Until you get clients and "make it", you are not that special in the minds of the higher-ups. Having dinner with someone who probably will have very little impact on your success shouldn't be something thats high on your priority list.
I know that no firm is perfect, but if this is the honeymoon period, I hate to see what it's like after I start. The things that have you pissed at the company are things that have zero impact on whether you'll succeed or not. You should be focused right now on two things: Studying for exams and updating your contact list. Becoming an advisor right now doesn't entitle you to a welcoming party. [/quote][quote=3rdyrp2][quote=MBA2FA]
Okay, that does it. I gotta call Jones and rescind my agreement. No offense to the Jones guys here who love the company, but I am now 100% sure this isn’t for me. As I started the employment process, I have had to deal with:
Man, it would behoove you to be less sensitive about that kind of stuff. Even though you are with the same firm, its a competition. Of course they don't want you right in their back yard. Learn how to play the game. If you think the Morgan Stanley boys are going to walk into your office/cubicle and give you a stack of their leads out of the kindness of their heart you are crazy.
Market Area analyst refusing to tell me what areas are available and refusing to tell me geographical boundaries (I had to guess area names and he would only say "yes" or "no")RL refusing to take my calls because he is "too busy and will call me back later" (I have been waiting by the phone for over 3 weeks) Received a call from the RL's BOA saying he's too busy to schedule my welcome dinner with just me, so I'll have to wait for other people to start so he can "get us all out of the way at one time"
My firm didn't give away some welcome dinner to me. I was just a number until I was able to make it. RL's (I have no idea who they are, I'll assume that means Regional Leader or somethng close to that) probably don't have 1-2 hours set aside for every newbie that comes through to take to dinner and chat about life when there's an 80% chance that person won't be w/the company in a year. Until you get clients and "make it", you are not that special in the minds of the higher-ups. Having dinner with someone who probably will have very little impact on your success shouldn't be something thats high on your priority list.
I know that no firm is perfect, but if this is the honeymoon period, I hate to see what it's like after I start. The things that have you pissed at the company are things that have zero impact on whether you'll succeed or not. You should be focused right now on two things: Studying for exams and updating your contact list. Becoming an advisor right now doesn't entitle you to a welcoming party. [/quote][/quote] Well said, 3rd. All those things are nice, but when it comes down to it they don't matter. I have my complaints about some of the way my company does things sometimes, but at the end of the day they paycheck I earn is directly dependant on my work. It has nothing to do with whether or not my RL or anyone else in my region went to dinner with me, or called me to congratulate me on "blah blah blah". If you are looking to walk into any company with a bunch of fans crowding the streets and confetti shot at you out of cannons, you are in the wrong profession. Just be happy that you have a couple offers, and get to work.[quote=3rdyrp2][quote=MBA2FA]
Okay, that does it. I gotta call Jones and rescind my agreement. No offense to the Jones guys here who love the company, but I am now 100% sure this isn’t for me. As I started the employment process, I have had to deal with:
Man, it would behoove you to be less sensitive about that kind of stuff. Even though you are with the same firm, its a competition. Of course they don't want you right in their back yard. Learn how to play the game. If you think the Morgan Stanley boys are going to walk into your office/cubicle and give you a stack of their leads out of the kindness of their heart you are crazy.
There is a difference in being sensitive and being aware. With Jones, I have been told that I will be expected to focus on one small town and do business a very specific way. MSSB had me create a business plan to find the best way to leverage my10k contacts. MSSB supports me being licensed in multiple states (my contacts are not all in one place), yet Jones wants me to focus on a zip code.
With MSSB, I am not expecting much more than a desk and a phone. I have my own contacts and can sell to them in accordance with a business plan that I created and not have to follow a prescribed "recipe for success." MSSB loves my business plan and fully supports my approach to building my business. Jones support system is set up around their doorknocking "recipe" and not much else.
RL refusing to take my calls because he is "too busy and will call me back later" (I have been waiting by the phone for over 3 weeks) Received a call from the RL's BOA saying he's too busy to schedule my welcome dinner with just me, so I'll have to wait for other people to start so he can "get us all out of the way at one time"
My firm didn't give away some welcome dinner to me. I was just a number until I was able to make it. RL's (I have no idea who they are, I'll assume that means Regional Leader or somethng close to that) probably don't have 1-2 hours set aside for every newbie that comes through to take to dinner and chat about life when there's an 80% chance that person won't be w/the company in a year. Until you get clients and "make it", you are not that special in the minds of the higher-ups. Having dinner with someone who probably will have very little impact on your success shouldn't be something thats high on your priority list.
I don't care about dinner either way. Interestingly enough, In the past five jobs I have had, my boss has welcomed me by taking me to dinner. On the other hand I used to serve in roles that were highly valued by my organization. I was highly valued and served in key roles. I don't need to be reminded that my new organization does not value me in that same way. I would rather have no dinner than get a call letting me know that someone is too busy to have dinner with me.
I'm not sure if you understand Jones' structure (I barely get it myself), but FA's don't have a manager. Everything is completely centralized in St. Louis. I had a simple question for Jones and I have waited almost a month just to get the opportunity to talk to someone. At MSSB, I can knock on my BM's door and ask.
It's interesting how some people read so much into my posts and assume things that are not there. Im not pissed off at Jones at all. I'm glad these things have happened. It makes me much better informed to make a choice. I am comparing two options. One has a bunch of red flags and the other one has fewer. I think it's wonderful that the Jones guys think they are far superior to the wirehouses. On the other hand, why are there so meany threads about people leaving Jones? I haven't met a single person who has left a wirehouse for Jones, yet I have seen the opposite.
I agree that I should focus on studying for exams and updating my contact list. Jones has made it clear that they don't care about my contact list and it's hard to focus on studying when i can't get the 3-year/$75,000 contract out of my head.
I'm still amazed by all the Jones people telling me how I will fail. Why would I want to start with a company with this attitude? This is MUCH different than the attitude, "90% of people in this industry fail. Be warned. Unless you do XYZ, you will most likele fail. If fact, even if you do XYZ, you still may fail." Jones guys here make it a personal attack instead of a helpful warning"
[quote=BioFreeze]I think your perception of the value of your 10,000 contacts is quite distorted.
[/quote]
I think your perception of my perception of the value of my contacts is quite distorted.
You are lacking two key pieces of information to make such a statement.
Good luck MBA2FA! I think you’ll need it!
I could be wrong, as I’ve been wrong a few times before, but I’m pretty sure you’re not allowed to not only solicit business but even talk about recommending to open an account with you unless you are licensed with that state. So if you’re contact list includes say, 20 people that you think may want to do business with you, MSSB is going to require you get licensed with those states before doing ANYTHING with them. If you tell them you’ve got the most contacts on your list in Pennsylvania, and they pay for the license there and you are only able to close one account for $50,000, they will probably be a little pissed an not give you the benefit of the doubt next time you ask if they can license you in another state. Most of the time when a firm pays for licensing of a new state its because a client moved away from a state you’re licensed in, you have a relative in a different state that has confirmed they’ll be a client, or you are a vet with a proven track record of closing big accounts. If they will pay for your licenses for that many states as a newbie with no financial experience then more power to you, but I think the odds are against that.
Correct me if I'm wrong again, but as an employee you are not allowed to pay for the licenses out of your own pocket, right? Good luck though![quote=3rdyrp2] I could be wrong, as I’ve been wrong a few times before, but I’m pretty sure you’re not allowed to not only solicit business but even talk about recommending to open an account with you unless you are licensed with that state. So if you’re contact list includes say, 20 people that you think may want to do business with you, MSSB is going to require you get licensed with those states before doing ANYTHING with them. If you tell them you’ve got the most contacts on your list in Pennsylvania, and they pay for the license there and you are only able to close one account for $50,000, they will probably be a little pissed an not give you the benefit of the doubt next time you ask if they can license you in another state. Most of the time when a firm pays for licensing of a new state its because a client moved away from a state you’re licensed in, you have a relative in a different state that has confirmed they’ll be a client, or you are a vet with a proven track record of closing big accounts. If they will pay for your licenses for that many states as a newbie with no financial experience then more power to you, but I think the odds are against that.
Correct me if I’m wrong again, but as an employee you are not allowed to pay for the licenses out of your own pocket, right?
Good luck though![/quote]
3rd - When I was at Jones, they paid for them, then said, if you weren’t making any money in that state, they would take it out of your paycheck. Then I think they said they would pay for them.
MBA said that MSSB was open to him being licensed in multiple states. Whether that’s just some slick HR talk, who knows?
I built my business at Jones mainly by out of state clients. And really, that’s mostly how I continue to build it.
[quote=Moraen] [quote=3rdyrp2] I could be wrong, as I’ve been wrong a few times before, but I’m pretty sure you’re not allowed to not only solicit business but even talk about recommending to open an account with you unless you are licensed with that state. So if you’re contact list includes say, 20 people that you think may want to do business with you, MSSB is going to require you get licensed with those states before doing ANYTHING with them. If you tell them you’ve got the most contacts on your list in Pennsylvania, and they pay for the license there and you are only able to close one account for $50,000, they will probably be a little pissed an not give you the benefit of the doubt next time you ask if they can license you in another state. Most of the time when a firm pays for licensing of a new state its because a client moved away from a state you’re licensed in, you have a relative in a different state that has confirmed they’ll be a client, or you are a vet with a proven track record of closing big accounts. If they will pay for your licenses for that many states as a newbie with no financial experience then more power to you, but I think the odds are against that.
Correct me if I’m wrong again, but as an employee you are not allowed to pay for the licenses out of your own pocket, right?
Good luck though![/quote]
3rd - When I was at Jones, they paid for them, then said, if you weren’t making any money in that state, they would take it out of your paycheck. Then I think they said they would pay for them.
MBA said that MSSB was open to him being licensed in multiple states. Whether that’s just some slick HR talk, who knows?
I built my business at Jones mainly by out of state clients. And really, that’s mostly how I continue to build it.[/quote]
I don’t think is was slick HR talk. When I presented my business plan, I prefaced this portion with, “if permitted, I will prospect contacts here, here and here.” Yes, I have contacts in 50 states, and no, they will not pay for 50 states for a newbie. Most of my valuable contacts are in about 10 states. Given that the state registration fee varies, we agreed to look at everything on a state by state basis. Of course, they will not continue to pay for licenses if it’s not profitable.
I can live with starting out with only a license in my current state (plenty of business here), but I think it would be foolish to neglect the state where I did business for five years and got my MBA (huge aumni association and lots of personal contacts).
[quote=MBA2FA] [quote=Moraen] [quote=3rdyrp2] I could be wrong, as I’ve been wrong a few times before, but I’m pretty sure you’re not allowed to not only solicit business but even talk about recommending to open an account with you unless you are licensed with that state. So if you’re contact list includes say, 20 people that you think may want to do business with you, MSSB is going to require you get licensed with those states before doing ANYTHING with them. If you tell them you’ve got the most contacts on your list in Pennsylvania, and they pay for the license there and you are only able to close one account for $50,000, they will probably be a little pissed an not give you the benefit of the doubt next time you ask if they can license you in another state. Most of the time when a firm pays for licensing of a new state its because a client moved away from a state you’re licensed in, you have a relative in a different state that has confirmed they’ll be a client, or you are a vet with a proven track record of closing big accounts. If they will pay for your licenses for that many states as a newbie with no financial experience then more power to you, but I think the odds are against that.
Correct me if I'm wrong again, but as an employee you are not allowed to pay for the licenses out of your own pocket, right?
Good luck though![/quote]
3rd - When I was at Jones, they paid for them, then said, if you weren't making any money in that state, they would take it out of your paycheck. Then I think they said they would pay for them.
MBA said that MSSB was open to him being licensed in multiple states. Whether that's just some slick HR talk, who knows?
I built my business at Jones mainly by out of state clients. And really, that's mostly how I continue to build it.[/quote]
I don't think is was slick HR talk. When I presented my business plan, I prefaced this portion with, "if permitted, I will prospect contacts here, here and here." Yes, I have contacts in 50 states, and no, they will not pay for 50 states for a newbie. Most of my valuable contacts are in about 10 states. Given that the state registration fee varies, we agreed to look at everything on a state by state basis. Of course, they will not continue to pay for licenses if it's not profitable.
I can live with starting out with only a license in my current state (plenty of business here), but I think it would be foolish to neglect the state where I did business for five years and got my MBA (huge aumni association and lots of personal contacts).
[/quote] MBA, I think if you just approach it positively, and can prove that you can leverage your out of state contacts, nobody at Jones will have a problem. As some have mentioned, I think they (as would most wirehouses) are probably leary of licensing someone in dozens of states that you may never actually do business in. As it stands, they put quite a bit of money into the start up of each FA, so costs are obviously an issue. But I am licensed in about 9 states, and some of those I no longer do business in (or maybe not even enough to warrent a license), and I have never even been questioned about it. They went through a a process a while ago and asked people to review their licenses to make sure it still made sense to maintain them. I have cancelled a few of mine where it didn't make sense (transferred client to local branch). I have never paid a dime in licensing fees at Jones. But also remember, you are dealing with individuals. When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer. Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer. If you choose to stay, just go about it like a business and you'll be fine.
"When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer. Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer."
B24, thank for all of your input. I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones. The FA’s in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things. There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side. I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).
Sometimes, it’s nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer. I have yet to find that person at Jones. In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum. I learn stuff, then go back to FA’s and ask, "Is this true?"
I must say that I appreciate this forum overall. The personal attacks are a bit annoying. I’m not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it. For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.
Fun fact of the day: If you take out the period of September 19th through October 26th of last year, the Dow is actually positive 200 points since January 25th of 2008.
...and if my Aunt had balls he'd be my Uncle!Fun fact of the day: If you take out the period of September 19th through October 26th of last year, the Dow is actually positive 200 points since January 25th of 2008.
You haven't really been personally attacked. Ask Wind, he will tell you about personal attacks. People assume you will fail because it's a statistical likelihood. I sat in a class with 13 people, none of which thought they were going to be in that 90% that wouldn't make it. Sure enough, they failed out for one reason or another. People are trying to help you be realistic, they tell you to plan on failing because it is likely, no matter who you are.“When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer. Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer.”
B24, thank for all of your input. I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones. The FA’s in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things. There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side. I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).
Sometimes, it’s nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer. I have yet to find that person at Jones. In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum. I learn stuff, then go back to FA’s and ask, “Is this true?”
I must say that I appreciate this forum overall. The personal attacks are a bit annoying. I’m not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it. For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.
You haven't really been personally attacked. Ask Wind, he will tell you about personal attacks. People assume you will fail because it's a statistical likelihood. I sat in a class with 13 people, none of which thought they were going to be in that 90% that wouldn't make it. Sure enough, they failed out for one reason or another. People are trying to help you be realistic, they tell you to plan on failing because it is likely, no matter who you are. [/quote] Besides, when the most important part of your "business plan" is your list of 10,000 contacts spread through 4 different continents, that's not "quick business". By that I mean you can't just call them up, tell them you're a newly minted prized gem with Morgan Stanley and expect a lot of them to open accounts and transfer their life savings. Especially when these people will all know your brand new to the industry and you are roughly an average of 2,000 miles away from most of them. Either 1. You're HNW crowd will have an advisor, 2. They prefer to have a local guy that can have an appt. from time to time to look at things, 3. Will be uncomfortable starting this type of professional relationship with someone who's brand new, or 4. Won't mind opening an account and thinks "If this guy can do well at selling pharmaceuticals, I'm sure he can get me to a successful retirement!". #4 will be few and far between, my friend, but the key is there will definitely be some that open an account to help you out. That's a fact, its just a matter of how soon they'll do it, and how many choose to do it. And there will be a wine and dine period between 1st phone call and rollover time. You may need to fly out to Wichita once or twice to take your Finance 701 professor to a steak dinner in order for him to pull the trigger and remind him that no, you weren't sleeping in class that one day because you were bored, you just accidentally took Nyquil instead of Dayquil beforehand.[quote=MBA2FA]“When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer. Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer.”
B24, thank for all of your input. I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones. The FA’s in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things. There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side. I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).
Sometimes, it’s nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer. I have yet to find that person at Jones. In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum. I learn stuff, then go back to FA’s and ask, “Is this true?”
I must say that I appreciate this forum overall. The personal attacks are a bit annoying. I’m not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it. For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.
You haven't really been personally attacked. Ask Wind, he will tell you about personal attacks. People assume you will fail because it's a statistical likelihood. I sat in a class with 13 people, none of which thought they were going to be in that 90% that wouldn't make it. Sure enough, they failed out for one reason or another. People are trying to help you be realistic, they tell you to plan on failing because it is likely, no matter who you are. [/quote][quote=MBA2FA]“When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer. Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer.”
B24, thank for all of your input. I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones. The FA’s in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things. There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side. I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).
Sometimes, it’s nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer. I have yet to find that person at Jones. In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum. I learn stuff, then go back to FA’s and ask, “Is this true?”
I must say that I appreciate this forum overall. The personal attacks are a bit annoying. I’m not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it. For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.
Okay, call me sensitive, but when people are placing bets on whether or not I will wash out in the first 12 months, I take kind of personally.... I don't go crying to my mom, but I do find it annoying.
[Side note: I once had a manager receive multiple anonymous death threats on another industry forum. She returned home from a business trip and found printouts of the threatening forum threads nailed to her front door. Now that's what I call a threat]
As mentioned in multiple past posts, I am quite well aware of the industry failure rate. I don't think it's possible to make it to the offer stage with multiple firms without a healthy respect for the challenges of this industry.
The context of how people address my probable failure serves to me as an indication as to whether someone is trying to be helpful or just being conflictive.
For example, if someone were to say, "Your 10,000 contacts will probably be worthless because...." or "Don't rely on your past success in business because this industry is totally different. I once knew a guy like you who failed because...."
When someone says something like, "You are an idiot and a loser. I guarantee you will fail," what is the value in that? How does that help me in any way?
Granted, there are not many people like this, but I have noticed that there are a handful of people on here that jump from thread to thread hurling insults and worthless comments at everyone.
Unfortunately for EDJ, there seem to be a disproportionate number of their FA's on here who seem downright angry. All of the ones I have met in person seem very pleasant and exhibited no antisocial behavior, but maybe they release their alter-ego on this forum at night. Who knows?
I get the impression that there are some people here that enjoy seeing others fail (build up sense of self importance, I guess), while others are genuinely interested in helping others.
As a former sales manager, I knew that a certain percentage of my people would fail out, but I did everything I could within reason to set them up for success. Sure some of them failed and I had to fire them, but it wasn't because I set up an expectation for failure.
As far as statistics go, the BM at my local MSSB branch claims to have a 100% success rate with new hires for the past 5 years (several have gotten pissed off and quit, but none have washed out). Does this mean I have 100% chance of success? Unfortunately, I think not.
The truth lies somewhere in the middle. As with financial markets, past results are no guarantee of future results. In fact, nobody knows for sure if I will make it... not me, not you, not EDJ, not MSSB. All anyone can do is look at success indicators that may indicate a higher probability of success. The MSSB BM is basing his decision on 25 years personal experience, six structured interviews, past work experience and performance reviews, mutliple tests to measure intelligence, financial ability, sales ability, and personality, review of a business plan, education, mutliple reference interviews, etc. I find it interesting that someone who has never met me and has worked at EDJ for a year thinks he is better qualified to assess my chance of success than the management team at the MSSB Branch with over 40 years combined experience.
Ed Jones survey ranking as #1 is not a compliment to Ed J as much as it’s a condemnation of the business and players in this environment as a whole.
You haven't really been personally attacked. Ask Wind, he will tell you about personal attacks. People assume you will fail because it's a statistical likelihood. I sat in a class with 13 people, none of which thought they were going to be in that 90% that wouldn't make it. Sure enough, they failed out for one reason or another. People are trying to help you be realistic, they tell you to plan on failing because it is likely, no matter who you are. [/quote][quote=SometimesNowhere][quote=MBA2FA]“When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer. Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer.”
B24, thank for all of your input. I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones. The FA’s in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things. There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side. I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).
Sometimes, it’s nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer. I have yet to find that person at Jones. In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum. I learn stuff, then go back to FA’s and ask, “Is this true?”
I must say that I appreciate this forum overall. The personal attacks are a bit annoying. I’m not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it. For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.
Thanks for the Input below. Much more constructive than "I guarantee you will fail. I have considered much of what you have said.
Besides, when the most important part of your "business plan" is your list of 10,000 contacts spread through 4 different continents, that's not "quick business".
Fortunately, I have very few int'l contacts. Most are in major metro areas. The most important part of my business plan is NOT the list. In fact, I was originally just looking at buying lists or using corporate directories, etc. Then I thought, "Wait, these guys have phones. These guys have money. Isn't it worth a simple phone call? I should hope my close rate would be at least equal to cold calling.
By that I mean you can't just call them up, tell them you're a newly minted prized gem with Morgan Stanley and expect a lot of them to open accounts and transfer their life savings. Especially when these people will all know your brand new to the industry and you are roughly an average of 2,000 miles away from most of them. Either
1. You're HNW crowd will have an advisor,
Isn't this the case with all HNW people? Are you saying t is't even wor a try?
2. They prefer to have a local guy that can have an appt. from time to time to look at things,
Agreed. I took a pointer from Judge on this one (500 day war). I was only going to target a few cities I like to visit, so I can go in for appts from time to time. However I do have several contacts in IT that do everything remotely and wouldn't do a physical appointment if I begged them.
3. Will be uncomfortable starting this type of professional relationship with someone who's brand new,
Again, won't I have this problem with anyone I call? I haven't talked to some of these contacts in 2-3 years (my failure to keep in touch can be saved for another discussion), so they don't have to know how new I am. No, I won't lie, but I don't have to announce my newness.
or 4. Won't mind opening an account and thinks "If this guy can do well at selling pharmaceuticals, I'm sure he can get me to a successful retirement!".
I think I'll close about 1 account with this approach. After I close my wife, I'll need to switch approaches. I think it would be wiser to sell people on trust, quality of service, etc. Pharma has nothing to do with financial services (duh). The only thing I can really "sell" about my past is to claim "30% of the MBA grads at my school go into the financial sector because our financial education is so great. While most of them go into investment banking, I decided to go into retail because I don't want to help stupid corporations. I want to help hard-working individuals like you.... or something like that"
#4 will be few and far between, my friend, but the key is there will definitely be some that open an account to help you out. That's a fact, its just a matter of how soon they'll do it, and how many choose to do it. And there will be a wine and dine period between 1st phone call and rollover time. You may need to fly out to Wichita once or twice to take your Finance 701 professor to a steak dinner in order for him to pull the trigger and remind him that no, you weren't sleeping in class that one day because you were bored, you just accidentally took Nyquil instead of Dayquil beforehand.[/quote]
[quote=MBA2FA]
[quote=SometimesNowhere][quote=MBA2FA]"When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer. Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer."B24, thank for all of your input. I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones. The FA’s in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things. There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side. I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).Sometimes, it’s nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer. I have yet to find that person at Jones. In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum. I learn stuff, then go back to FA’s and ask, "Is this true?"I must say that I appreciate this forum overall. The personal attacks are a bit annoying. I’m not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it. For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.[/quote]
You haven’t really been personally attacked. Ask Wind, he will tell you about personal attacks.
People assume you will fail because it’s a statistical likelihood. I sat in a class with 13 people, none of which thought they were going to be in that 90% that wouldn’t make it. Sure enough, they failed out for one reason or another. People are trying to help you be realistic, they tell you to plan on failing because it is likely, no matter who you are. [/quote]Okay, call me sensitive, but when people are placing bets on whether or not I will wash out in the first 12 months, I take kind of personally… I don’t go crying to my mom, but I do find it annoying.[Side note: I once had a manager receive multiple anonymous death threats on another industry forum. She returned home from a business trip and found printouts of the threatening forum threads nailed to her front door. Now that’s what I call a threat]As mentioned in multiple past posts, I am quite well aware of the industry failure rate. I don’t think it’s possible to make it to the offer stage with multiple firms without a healthy respect for the challenges of this industry.The context of how people address my probable failure serves to me as an indication as to whether someone is trying to be helpful or just being conflictive.For example, if someone were to say, “Your 10,000 contacts will probably be worthless because…” or "Don’t rely on your past success in business because this industry is totally different. I once knew a guy like you who failed because…"When someone says something like, “You are an idiot and a loser. I guarantee you will fail,” what is the value in that? How does that help me in any way?Granted, there are not many people like this, but I have noticed that there are a handful of people on here that jump from thread to thread hurling insults and worthless comments at everyone.Unfortunately for EDJ, there seem to be a disproportionate number of their FA’s on here who seem downright angry. All of the ones I have met in person seem very pleasant and exhibited no antisocial behavior, but maybe they release their alter-ego on this forum at night. Who knows?I get the impression that there are some people here that enjoy seeing others fail (build up sense of self importance, I guess), while others are genuinely interested in helping others.As a former sales manager, I knew that a certain percentage of my people would fail out, but I did everything I could within reason to set them up for success. Sure some of them failed and I had to fire them, but it wasn’t because I set up an expectation for failure.As far as statistics go, the BM at my local MSSB branch claims to have a 100% success rate with new hires for the past 5 years (several have gotten pissed off and quit, but none have washed out). Does this mean I have 100% chance of success? Unfortunately, I think not.The truth lies somewhere in the middle. As with financial markets, past results are no guarantee of future results. In fact, nobody knows for sure if I will make it… not me, not you, not EDJ, not MSSB. All anyone can do is look at success indicators that may indicate a higher probability of success. The MSSB BM is basing his decision on 25 years personal experience, six structured interviews, past work experience and performance reviews, mutliple tests to measure intelligence, financial ability, sales ability, and personality, review of a business plan, education, mutliple reference interviews, etc. I find it interesting that someone who has never met me and has worked at EDJ for a year thinks he is better qualified to assess my chance of success than the management team at the MSSB Branch with over 40 years combined experience. [/quote]
MBA has a point.
However, I wouldn’t say people on here enjoy watching other people fail.
A couple of counterpoints though MBA. The MSSB BM is also in management. If he was in this industry 25 years as a broker, he would have more credibility. There are people who seem like they will succeed in this industry but don’t, and others that on paper look like the crap you just stepped in, but end up being million dollar producers. There is no “magic formula” for determining who will succeed.
I wish you the best of luck (I have beer riding on it), and like someone said you will probably need it. Not because of your background. Not because of your attitude. Simply because so many do need that luck. I have not worked in other fields much (other than military and security), but I’m pretty sure this is the most difficult way to make a living in the country. It is also the most rewarding.
Hopefully you’ll give us some updates. And in one year’s time, I’ll have volt FedEx some good Austrailian beer (not that Foster’s crap B24 drinks). Then you can come by and have 20 calories of one beer.
3rd - it’s easy to get soured on Jones kool-aid, especially if they don’t give you the good batch.
I did all my interviews within a few days and was given an offer the same day as my last interview. It took another week to check refs. A friend of mine, it took him two months. Different for everybody.
Sidebar:
I am not just a Foster's drinker. I drink Guiness, Beamish, Sam (several varieties), a couple of IPA's, and actually Michelob (not that Ultra crap though). I HATE light beers, I won't even SMELL a fruit-flavored beer, and I'll drink an occassional Corona at a barbeque or on the beach. We had a party last week, and my wife went and bought beer (without my knowledge). She bought Bud Light Lime and Michelob Ultra. That was a big disappointment.[quote=B24] Sidebar:
I am not just a Foster’s drinker. I drink Guiness, Beamish, Sam (several varieties), a couple of IPA’s, and actually Michelob (not that Ultra crap though). I HATE light beers, I won’t even SMELL a fruit-flavored beer, and I’ll drink an occassional Corona at a barbeque or on the beach.
We had a party last week, and my wife went and bought beer (without my knowledge). She bought Bud Light Lime and Michelob Ultra. That was a big disappointment.[/quote]
Excellent taste then my friend. Glad to hear you don’t drink Foster’s
True, but most of the time when people are calling from a list or don't know anyone personally they have no idea if you are new or if you've been doing it 20 years. They call it "fake it til you make it". Pretend you've been there for a quarter-century, the only one who knows the truth is you, your mom and your co-workers. Thats just why I was thinking that would be a tough approach with someone who was a recent colleague or knows more about your past than a stranger would. I think in the long run the contacts will be a strong point, though.
3. Will be uncomfortable starting this type of professional relationship with someone who’s brand new,
Again, won’t I have this problem with anyone I call? I haven’t talked to some of these contacts in 2-3 years (my failure to keep in touch can be saved for another discussion), so they don’t have to know how new I am. No, I won’t lie, but I don’t have to announce my newness.
I’ll be around. This forum is like a bad addiction.
As far as the BM’s assessment ability goes, I would hope that with significant experience managing multiple brokers, he would gain insight as to what good looks like. Maybe he was a terrible advisor, but has the ability to identify people that will be successful.
One of my professors in business school co-authored the McKinsey book on corporate valuation and taught classes on M&A. Has he ever personally been responsible for any large Mergers or Acquisitions? Nope. Can he spot a bad deal a mile away? Yup! Do corporations pay him tons of money for his insight? Yup. Get where I am going with this?
Incidentally, the BM and ABM both started out as advisors, so they aren’t completely ignorant.
As far as the “Luck” factor goes, this concept extends far beyond financial services. We actually did a case study on it in business school. There are numerous examples of almost identical people and businesses… some fail and others are wildly successful and nobody knows why. What people do know is that the successful people/organizations exhibit common traits. Without these, failure is almost inevitable.
There is a great Harvard Business Review Article called “Resilience” that explains some factors very well. The book “Tipping Point” by Malcomb Gladwell also offers some interesting insight.
So as to the bet. To get your beer, do I have to make it a year past my start date or a year in production? Since volt is convinced I am that stupid, perhaps he should throw in a jar of vegemite if I pass my Series 7.
BTW, how do I prove I really made it a year? I see lots of people accusing others of being liars. Suspiscion will be even higher is there’s beer on the line.
[quote=B24]Sidebar:
I am not just a Foster's drinker. I drink Guiness, Beamish, Sam (several varieties), a couple of IPA's, and actually Michelob (not that Ultra crap though). I HATE light beers, I won't even SMELL a fruit-flavored beer, and I'll drink an occassional Corona at a barbeque or on the beach. We had a party last week, and my wife went and bought beer (without my knowledge). She bought Bud Light Lime and Michelob Ultra. That was a big disappointment.[/quote] Have you tried Sam Smith's Nut Brown Ale?That's a very unfortunate name for a beer.Have you tried Sam Smith’s Nut Brown Ale?
[quote=noggin][quote=B24]Sidebar:
I am not just a Foster's drinker. I drink Guiness, Beamish, Sam (several varieties), a couple of IPA's, and actually Michelob (not that Ultra crap though). I HATE light beers, I won't even SMELL a fruit-flavored beer, and I'll drink an occassional Corona at a barbeque or on the beach. We had a party last week, and my wife went and bought beer (without my knowledge). She bought Bud Light Lime and Michelob Ultra. That was a big disappointment.[/quote] Have you tried Sam Smith's Nut Brown Ale?[/quote] Are you making a gay joke? If so, that's not cool man.Wow, didn’t know Sam Smith’s Nut Brown Ale is such a sensitive subject to you guys. It still is an unfortunate name.
Incidentally, the BM and ABM both started out as advisors, so they aren’t completely ignorant.
The book “Tipping Point” by Malcomb Gladwell also offers some interesting insight.
BTW, how do I prove I really made it a year? I see lots of people accusing others of being liars.
[/quote]
Couple of points MBA
- BM and ABME started as advisors. Like I said, if they could have made it as advisors, they still would be.
- Malcolm Gladwell is a tool. He started two failed businesses and couldn’t make it playing hockey, so he blames it on his birthday (read the book “Outliers”). He’s a clown, please don’t listen to anything he says.
- You can prove it by blotting out your real name and sending a copy of your production snapshot to me and volt. I have no problem providing you my email address.
- I will then give volt my office address, you guys can come and we’ll drink to your future success. Volt has shown he is willing to admit if he’s wrong, I have no doubt he would this time.
[quote=MBA2FA]
I’ll be around. This forum is like a bad addiction.
As far as the BM’s assessment ability goes, I would hope that with significant experience managing multiple brokers, he would gain insight as to what good looks like. Maybe he was a terrible advisor, but has the ability to identify people that will be successful.
One of my professors in business school co-authored the McKinsey book on corporate valuation and taught classes on M&A. Has he ever personally been responsible for any large Mergers or Acquisitions? Nope. Can he spot a bad deal a mile away? Yup! Do corporations pay him tons of money for his insight? Yup. Get where I am going with this?
Incidentally, the BM and ABM both started out as advisors, so they aren’t completely ignorant.
As far as the “Luck” factor goes, this concept extends far beyond financial services. We actually did a case study on it in business school. There are numerous examples of almost identical people and businesses… some fail and others are wildly successful and nobody knows why. What people do know is that the successful people/organizations exhibit common traits. Without these, failure is almost inevitable.
There is a great Harvard Business Review Article called “Resilience” that explains some factors very well. The book “Tipping Point” by Malcomb Gladwell also offers some interesting insight.
So as to the bet. To get your beer, do I have to make it a year past my start date or a year in production? Since volt is convinced I am that stupid, perhaps he should throw in a jar of vegemite if I pass my Series 7.
BTW, how do I prove I really made it a year? I see lots of people accusing others of being liars. Suspiscion will be even higher is there’s beer on the line.
[/quote]
If you can’t start making your point in under 100 words you won’t last a month much less a year. Spare us the books bro.
You’ll pass the 7, you’ll brag, and then… welcome to the insanity. I’m a man of my word, hope you are … 1 year from your can sell date we can use a third party source like B24 to confirm you are still active. Mmmmm beer!
[quote=Moraen]Incidentally, the BM and ABM both started out as advisors, so they aren’t completely ignorant.
The book “Tipping Point” by Malcomb Gladwell also offers some interesting insight.
BTW, how do I prove I really made it a year? I see lots of people accusing others of being liars.
[/quote]
Couple of points MBA
- BM and ABME started as advisors. Like I said, if they could have made it as advisors, they still would be.
- Malcolm Gladwell is a tool. He started two failed businesses and couldn’t make it playing hockey, so he blames it on his birthday (read the book “Outliers”). He’s a clown, please don’t listen to anything he says.
- You can prove it by blotting out your real name and sending a copy of your production snapshot to me and volt. I have no problem providing you my email address.
- I will then give volt my office address, you guys can come and we’ll drink to your future success. Volt has shown he is willing to admit if he’s wrong, I have no doubt he would this time.
[/quote]
This works too, it would be my pleasure.
I can admit when I am wrong too. Jones guys aren’t all bad.
I don’t think I’ll brag if I pass the 7. That’s just a ticket to the game. I’ll brag if I make it to the end of year three.
We can all meet at Caesars Palace. Volt is buying.
(I kept it under 100 words. Are you impressed?)
I was thinking Vegas, but I’m flexible.
[quote=iceco1d]Are we talking Caesar’s Palace…Vegas? or AC?[/quote]
Road trip!
I’m good for either Vegas or AC. I’ll buy the 10th round if volt, ice and MBA pick up the first nine.
[quote=Mike Damone][quote=noggin][quote=B24]Sidebar:
I am not just a Foster's drinker. I drink Guiness, Beamish, Sam (several varieties), a couple of IPA's, and actually Michelob (not that Ultra crap though). I HATE light beers, I won't even SMELL a fruit-flavored beer, and I'll drink an occassional Corona at a barbeque or on the beach. We had a party last week, and my wife went and bought beer (without my knowledge). She bought Bud Light Lime and Michelob Ultra. That was a big disappointment.[/quote] Have you tried Sam Smith's Nut Brown Ale?[/quote] Are you making a gay joke? If so, that's not cool man.[/quote] Not a gay joke but the responses have made me laugh on a Friday morning.....Tom Milt called me when I placed a 400k in mutual fund buys with a non-preferred fund company. He told me that “an IR of my level should have used a preferred family” and that LP was coming out soon. I hear Jones had to put him on the payroll again because he was being hauled into court so frequently.
I want to leave Jones. It’s been a year. Drank the kool-aid, wrong flavor for me. Anyone elaborate on the legal ramifications for leaving and going independent?
Read your contract.
Or do a search.
My LP thanks you.
I want to leave Jones. It’s been a year. Drank the kool-aid, wrong flavor for me. Anyone elaborate on the legal ramifications for leaving and going independent?
Hope you have around $5000 to pay off Jones' lawyers. You have a non-solicit agreement for about a year (if Jones was smart they'd make it two years - a year isn't long enough).
Dude, just tough it for the next two years. Start planning your exit NOW.
Spiff - Your LP would have been a lot better off if they never hired him in the first place.
If Spiff were a producer over 300K, he would be more upset with the fact that his bonus was used on a rep who couldn’t make it.
Since he is still fighting to make 200K GDC, he only is worried about his bond in drag which he got for working in home office teaching reps like the one who is thinking about leaving how to sell a mutual fund that kicks back to his management. Before he retorts that all firms do it...I thought I would beat him to it....Tough crowd. I don’t want to pay the $$ so I probably will stay until my time comes. My numbers are exceeding exp so it’s not like I’m struggling with that aspect of it.
BTW- I’m a woman not a dude.
BTW- I’m a woman not a dude.
Dude.
What flavor do you like to taste, KW ?
Where’s Spears to ask if she’s hot?
tsk…tsk…down boys.
What flavor do you like to taste, KW ?
nice one Ron!
True, but then she may have been the next Wann Robinson or Troy Nelson. You just never know.Spiff - Your LP would have been a lot better off if they never hired him in the first place.
Never heard of Wann… isn’t Troy’s dad well connected(some law firm or something)…
There is a guy up in washington, who used to be a trainer(professional sports) who is real good too.
[quote=BigCheese]If Spiff were a producer over 300K, he would be more upset with the fact that his bonus was used on a rep who couldn’t make it.
Since he is still fighting to make 200K GDC, he only is worried about his bond in drag which he got for working in home office teaching reps like the one who is thinking about leaving how to sell a mutual fund that kicks back to his management. Before he retorts that all firms do it...I thought I would beat him to it....[/quote] Wow, a personal attack. Nice. I don't ever remember telling anyone about my production. How do you know that you're anywhere close to what my numbers are? The fact that I didn't say "My bonus thanks you"? Those folks who have been around here for a while know that I frequently use that phrase to folks like this one who are talking about leaving. I'll make sure from now on that I say "My LP and my bonus thank you". Happy now? And BTW, my "bond in drag" kicked out 16% last year. 24% the year before that. 23% the year before that. Do you want me to go on? I have to go back to 1988 to get down to only 15%. Bond in drag...idiot.Spiff who is the guy in washington?
Wann is a big producer down in FL. I think Troy's dad was an insurance guy, so he may be well connected. But, you don't do $3 mil GDC 11 years in just based on dad's connections. I'm not sure who that is in Washington.Never heard of Wann… isn’t Troy’s dad well connected(some law firm or something)…
There is a guy up in washington, who used to be a trainer(professional sports) who is real good too.
Is Wann the guy who has the converted Dr.s office. where he has like 3 BOAs and he only steps in for a minute?
The flaws in the Jones system have been documented ad nausem (spelling?). It is interesting that Jones goes after reps if they leave in the first few years for repayment of training costs, etc…
You would think they would spend the money to help the reps after a year or so (once they had hit Seg 3), rather than spend it to recover training costs when they leave for greaner pastures. Once you hit Seg 3 you can't make enough money to survive long term, and you are left alone to ultimately leave in one way or another. Some takes 3 some 5 years and for me it was almost 9 years and after hit Seg 4 (supposedly making it). Now that I have been indy for almost 3 years, I can say without hesitation that Jones reps that really want to stay in this biz for 20 years have to make the decision to leave that firm. Their model isn't built for producers in bad markets, its built for growth of new reps regardless. If Spiff and B24 realize that once they are 300K producers they are funding the growth and getting nothing for it.I think the guy in washington is an RL… pretty sure he is in top 10% of firm
come on spiff look him up on the GP page.
I was looking on the directory for GP's from WA. None of their bios mention anything sports trainer related. Sorry. Maybe some of the other guys can fill in that blank. Sorry, I tried.
That was David Lane. He oversees the Goodknight department now. Yes, he had like 5 offices, with clipboards on each door. Steps in, talks to the client, etc. I think he was like a 2mm+ producer. He also had a drive-through drop box for checks where clients could drop checks off. Like it or not, I think he was pretty innovative for a "one man shop". But at that level, the Jones model just falls apart. You can't run your business that way. You need to have additional licensed staff to service smaller clients. However, I think the optimum situation is to jettison off all your smaller cleitns, and just focus on your bigger clients. He did several goodknight plans, and I think most of his office was ultimately split up by the time he left. I'm sure he made a killing doing all those Goodknights. It's pretty lucrative.Is Wann the guy who has the converted Dr.s office. where he has like 3 BOAs and he only steps in for a minute?
[quote=BigCheese]The flaws in the Jones system have been documented ad nausem (spelling?). It is interesting that Jones goes after reps if they leave in the first few years for repayment of training costs, etc…
You would think they would spend the money to help the reps after a year or so (once they had hit Seg 3), rather than spend it to recover training costs when they leave for greaner pastures. Once you hit Seg 3 you can't make enough money to survive long term, and you are left alone to ultimately leave in one way or another. Some takes 3 some 5 years and for me it was almost 9 years and after hit Seg 4 (supposedly making it). Now that I have been indy for almost 3 years, I can say without hesitation that Jones reps that really want to stay in this biz for 20 years have to make the decision to leave that firm. Their model isn't built for producers in bad markets, its built for growth of new reps regardless. If Spiff and B24 realize that once they are 300K producers they are funding the growth and getting nothing for it.[/quote] I agree. If your goal is to be a career small-producer, Jones is not a great place to stay (nor are any of the wirehouses). They just suck too much from you for what you are producing. You can be much more (financially) efficient as an indy at the sub-450K production level. Of course, it depends on the type of practice. If you have a high-transaction, low average account practice with a lot of clients, Jones is actually not a bad place. They have the systems in place to handle a lot of clients (contact management, integrated software, most expenses are paid by firm, etc.). However, if you are an RIA with less than 100 clients, you can have a small office and a part-time assistant and cut your overhead dramatically versus being at Jones.That was David Lane. He oversees the Goodknight department now. Yes, he had like 5 offices, with clipboards on each door. Steps in, talks to the client, etc. I think he was like a 2mm+ producer. He also had a drive-through drop box for checks where clients could drop checks off. Like it or not, I think he was pretty innovative for a "one man shop". But at that level, the Jones model just falls apart. You can't run your business that way. You need to have additional licensed staff to service smaller clients. However, I think the optimum situation is to jettison off all your smaller cleitns, and just focus on your bigger clients. He did several goodknight plans, and I think most of his office was ultimately split up by the time he left. I'm sure he made a killing doing all those Goodknights. It's pretty lucrative.[/quote] Wann is the dude where it is set up like a Dr's office. My field trainer went through training with him. David Lane was a machine also but he inherited over 100mil from a guy who is now an American Funds Regional Wholesaler, Tom something.[quote=Squash1]Is Wann the guy who has the converted Dr.s office. where he has like 3 BOAs and he only steps in for a minute?
I want to talk about beer again…
Has anyone ever had the Rogue Hazelnut Brown Nectar? It will change your life!That was David Lane. He oversees the Goodknight department now. Yes, he had like 5 offices, with clipboards on each door. Steps in, talks to the client, etc. I think he was like a 2mm+ producer. He also had a drive-through drop box for checks where clients could drop checks off. Like it or not, I think he was pretty innovative for a "one man shop". But at that level, the Jones model just falls apart. You can't run your business that way. You need to have additional licensed staff to service smaller clients. However, I think the optimum situation is to jettison off all your smaller cleitns, and just focus on your bigger clients. He did several goodknight plans, and I think most of his office was ultimately split up by the time he left. I'm sure he made a killing doing all those Goodknights. It's pretty lucrative.[/quote] Wann is the dude where it is set up like a Dr's office. My field trainer went through training with him. David Lane was a machine also but he inherited over 100mil from a guy who is now an American Funds Regional Wholesaler, Tom something.[quote=B24][quote=Squash1]Is Wann the guy who has the converted Dr.s office. where he has like 3 BOAs and he only steps in for a minute?
[/quote]
Yeah, you're probably right. I just remember David Lane giving a talk a few years ago when he talked about how he ran his office, and it was just like a doctor's office. But you're right, he inherited a lot (although I will say that he grew it from like 100mm to around 300mm, which is no small feat). And Wann Robinson did grow it from scratch (or maybe he was somewhere previously, but he did not inherit a big office). I want to say he's like 25 years in.
fixed.[quote=B24][quote=Squash1]…Tom something Bartow.
Bond in drag…idiot.
Spiff- Wow. Now that is a good example of a personal attack. Why don't you tell us a little about your performance? Are you out of Seg 3 yet? If not then your production is south of 300K and guess what you don't get a bonus even if the brackets weren't at 0. If you produced at 300K+ and your bonus was 5-10% of your comp, you would be more concerned about growing the firm at your expense. But since you aren't you always bring back how good LP is (and you didn't earn it in the field). I know 18% return on 10-20K is alot of money to you. I may be an idiot in your eyes (probably because the truth hurts). You my friend should consider politics, you are awesome representation of telling half-truths. And since you clearly excel at communication (how many posts per week do you average?) you should be in line for GP (behind family of course) if your political career fails.Bartow is the guy that really should get credit for that office in Paducah but he won’t because everyone can’t stand to be in the same room with him. As far as experiences, you really should have taken a Top Gun workshop from him…
Correct on both accounts. He’s a great old-school broker teacher. But he’s a d!ck. Good story (or bad story). Went to one of his workshops a few years ago in our region. I think it was sponsored by American Funds (which is where he now works). There were about 45 of us there. He yells at this guy for coming in 30 minutes late. I mean yells at him. The guy says (and he was rather new, and telling the truth) “I apologize, but I had to bring my wife to her chemo treatment this morning, and I had to wait and bring her home because we are new to the area and she had no other way to get home” (I am para-phrasing, but those were almost his exact words).
I sh!t you not. That sort of soured the rest of the day.[quote=B24] Correct on both accounts. He’s a great old-school broker teacher. But he’s a d!ck. Good story (or bad story). Went to one of his workshops a few years ago in our region. I think it was sponsored by American Funds (which is where he now works). There were about 45 of us there. He yells at this guy for coming in 30 minutes late. I mean yells at him. The guy says (and he was rather new, and telling the truth) “I apologize, but I had to bring my wife to her chemo treatment this morning, and I had to wait and bring her home because we are new to the area and she had no other way to get home” (I am para-phrasing, but those were almost his exact words).
Nice. I believe it.
[quote=B24]Correct on both accounts. He’s a great old-school broker teacher. But he’s a d!ck. Good story (or bad story). Went to one of his workshops a few years ago in our region. I think it was sponsored by American Funds (which is where he now works). There were about 45 of us there. He yells at this guy for coming in 30 minutes late. I mean yells at him. The guy says (and he was rather new, and telling the truth) “I apologize, but I had to bring my wife to her chemo treatment this morning, and I had to wait and bring her home because we are new to the area and she had no other way to get home” (I am para-phrasing, but those were almost his exact words).
I sh!t you not. That sort of soured the rest of the day.[/quote] Yeah I can believe that. I went to a workshop with him when he was with American Funds and some of the veterans were standings in the back chatting quietly. He called them out and said, "What, you guys to smart to pay attention?" Total jagoff. And he is like 5 ft 1.johnny two times. johnny two times.
He’s got my respect. For the people willing to do the work he’d be willing to work with them and give them constructive criticism and for those that made excuses he had no sympathy.
FWIW, Ron … if you’ve got the balls to be talking while a featured speaker is addressing the newbies, you deserve to get your damned a$$ handed to you. Serves them right and I applaud Bartow for doing it.
Tom Bartow is a closet gay.
I don't care what the guy has done or what he has built. He is a straight up jag off.
The large dog producer in Washinton… Brian Duffy maybe?
Yes Bartow started "David Lane's" Paducah office in the early 1980's, built it to $80-100mm, went to StLouis about 1988-89, as a GP. David Lane, pretty fresh from college had been some early star and was moved from Murray, KY to Paducah. To his credit, Lane took over something big and established and did nothing other than run faster with it and grow it bigger for many many years. Speculation is that being a (per Jones) giant dog producer with one or two (?) divorces under his belt he probably had some huge child support obligations that could be somewhat mitigated by trading in his huge annuity (the verb , not the noun) office for a nice big addtional slug of Gee Pee. Bartow's epilogue... Being the consumate little man Napoleon Bartow got into some pissing contest with John Bachmann and stormed out of the firm. Bachmann's perpective reportedly (and rightfully so) was "Don't let the screen door hit you in the ass on your way out the door, Tommy."Nah, wasn’t Duffy… I can see the guys face… His house was profiled in magazine because he redid the whole thing(massive house from what I remember)… Maybe it was Oregon, but I am pretty sure it was Washington(seem to think he lives by some microsoft execs)… Damn…
[quote=Juck Phones]The large dog producer in Washinton… Brian Duffy maybe?
Yes Bartow started "David Lane's" Paducah office in the early 1980's, built it to $80-100mm, went to StLouis about 1988-89, as a GP. David Lane, pretty fresh from college had been some early star and was moved from Murray, KY to Paducah. To his credit, Lane took over something big and established and did nothing other than run faster with it and grow it bigger for many many years. Speculation is that being a (per Jones) giant dog producer with one or two (?) divorces under his belt he probably had some huge child support obligations that could be somewhat mitigated by trading in his huge annuity (the verb , not the noun) office for a nice big addtional slug of Gee Pee. [/quote] I heard the same thing about David Lane and the whole divorce thing. Not sure how divorce settlements work, but I would think the income kicked off by the partnership shares would be considered income. Let's say they gave him $1mm in GP, that would turn into 500K or so per year in income. Less than what he was making in Paducah, but nothing to scoff at. Of course, I have NO idea how much GP he got. I just know he was probably netting $1mm or more in Paducah.Divorce laws are different in every state. If he were half as smart as an idiot, he would have at least gotten a prenup after the first divorce.
Child support is mandated by the state, so there’s no way around that. But it usually doesn’t amount to half of what someone is making.
Also, courts look at all sources of income with the exception of disability. This means passive and active. GP, LP, dividends - it all counts.
If you own a business and are funneling personal expenses through it, child support guidelines (usually and are usually taken into consideration for alimony) disallow certain expenses (car, insurance, etc.). If it is not specifically used to RUN the business, then it can be disallowed.
Yeah, I am sure there was some advantage to it for him. Maybe they even made some sort of “arrangement” for future comp or something. Or maybe he just wanted to get out of Dodge (or Paducah). I just can’t think of a reason why i would trade in a $1mm income, with nobody looking over your shoulder, to go sit in a cube in St. Louis with 10 hour days and 10 other GP’s looking over your shoulder.
[quote=BigCheese]Bond in drag…idiot.
Spiff- Wow. Now that is a good example of a personal attack. Why don't you tell us a little about your performance? Are you out of Seg 3 yet? If not then your production is south of 300K and guess what you don't get a bonus even if the brackets weren't at 0. If you produced at 300K+ and your bonus was 5-10% of your comp, you would be more concerned about growing the firm at your expense. But since you aren't you always bring back how good LP is (and you didn't earn it in the field). I know 18% return on 10-20K is alot of money to you. I may be an idiot in your eyes (probably because the truth hurts). You my friend should consider politics, you are awesome representation of telling half-truths. And since you clearly excel at communication (how many posts per week do you average?) you should be in line for GP (behind family of course) if your political career fails.[/quote] No, I don't think I will tell you about my production. It means nothing to anyone but me and my family. I'll tell you that I don't get invited to the managing partners conference, but I'm not on goals either. Make whatever assumptions you'd like from there. I didn't earn my LP in the field. I've never said that I did. I'm proud of the work that I did while I was in the home office, but my timing couldn't have been worse for getting LP in the field. Actually I timed it pretty poorly on both sides. If LP were what I was looking for, I should have waited another 5-6 months to leave HQ because I probably would have received more LP than I got. Too bad for me. Then my branch wasn't profitable enough to get more LP when the last offering came out a few years ago. Actually, I think you're an idiot not because of the attack on me or the comment about the LP, but more because of your assertation that the "flaws in the Jones system have been documented ad nausem". The only place I've ever seen anything "documented" about flaws in the EDJ system are here in this forum. And those are usually written by folks like yourself who have left Jones for some reason or another. I would hardly call that a strong case for documentation. You have a difference of opinion with the way that EDJ is and should be managed. That doesn't mean that your statements "Once you hit Seg 3 you can't make enough money to survive long term" and "Jones reps that really want to stay in this biz for 20 years have to make the decision to leave that firm" are at all factual. How do you know what it takes to pay my bills? I could make $20K gross a month for the rest of my life and be just fine. There are a ton of Jones reps who have been in this business for 20 years or more. I think every one of them would make a very valid case against your theory. Tell me what model IS built for brokers in bad markets. Our "flawed" model has brought in tons of assets and advisors during this downturn. While a lot of advisors were worried about the name on their door or the 40% drop in their fee based paycheck, Jones FAs were out there ringing doorbells, calling clients, and starting new relationships. How is that not a platform built for advisors in a bad market? So, see, you're not an idiot just because of your bond in drag comment or your comments about my production, along with B24, but because of the things I outlined above. As for my communication skills - thanks for the compliment. I would think that basic typing skills, spelling, sentence structure, and basic interpersonal communication skills would be a standard skill set for someone in this business, but evidently not: "Some takes 3 some 5 years and for me it was almost 9 years and after hit Seg 4 (supposedly making it)." What?Spiff-
You are amazing. You have only seen negative things on this forum? How about WSJ, or maybe Forbes, or how about your St. Louis Business Journal. Are all publications outside of this forum foreign to you? I ask a simple question and you continue to act by attacking me. What's wrong with coming out with your numbers. How can I take you seriously if you only gross 150K and come off as the great Jones messiah. Now if you were a larger producer, perhaps what you continue to say might have some punch. Proofreading only happens with client or company communications not these forums. Continue to expect grammar issues.Here is a conspiracy theory for you…! I think BigCheese is Windy…now…follow me here…if he were smart (which we know he is not)…Windy knows that five minutes after starting to post, we all know who he is…the best way to avert that would be to attack Spiffy, since we know that Spiff was his only champion!
And we can take it one step further. Maybe he let Spiff know in a PM that he will be doing this to get himself back on the forum without suspicion...i'm just sayin ;)Spiff-
As for your question regarding a model built for bad markets. Simply put, that's a model that allows you flexibility. Flexibility is described many ways, but in a nutshell taking advantage of long/short positions, or non-traded REITS, or managed futures or other asset classes that don't correlate to the stock/bond markets. Or how about SBA loan pools that are backed by the government (ratings are typically AAA) that are not interest rate sensitive. I could go on and on. It's not just a fee-based plan with mutual funds. All of these opportunities and I am sure many more aren't yet available to you and probably never will be. The street knows your limitations, and someday if you ever look outside the Jones box, you will see an incredible opportunity that you missed. Spiff- For years I have been relatively patient offering some realistic pros/cons about Jones. I have more experience with Jones as an FA than you, I have independent experience prior to and after my 9 years with Jones. You just haven't a clue.BigCheese came clean when I started.
I am footsoldier. Now think for a moment originally a footsoldier working for the man to...The Man aka Big Cheese. A Disclaimer...I had to change ID's because of computer problems. It was just easier and at my age I prefer not having to tax my mind...unless I have had a Maker's and Coke or two![quote=BigCheese]BigCheese came clean when I started.
I am footsoldier. Now think for a moment originally a footsoldier working for the man to...The Man aka Big Cheese. A Disclaimer...I had to change ID's because of computer problems. It was just easier and at my age I prefer not having to tax my mind...unless I have had a Maker's and Coke or two![/quote] I know you aren't Windy...I was just playin...a sad attempt at humor, since we don't have DJ to mess with anymoreOh, I see. The validity of my posts is in direct correlation with my production. OK. So, if I told you I grossed $275K last year, I’d have more validity than if I grossed $250K? How much validity would I have if I grossed $425K? See, how can I take you seriously if you’re going to only judge me based on my production. I didn’t do that to you. I called you an idiot well before I knew anything at all about your production. And I still don’t care about your production numbers. I could say something like, if you tell me yours I’ll tell you mine, but then I’d doubt that your numbers are real and then I’d lie about mine because I’d figure that you would too, and we’d be back at square one. I’d rather just have a debate with you and leave production out of it.
The WSJ has written an article about the flaws in the EDJ system? I remember the revenue sharing stuff from a few years ago, but I'm evidently oblivious to the numerous other articles they have written about why Jones is bad and that everyone else is good. Same thing with Forbes or the STL Biz Journal. You're going to have to give me some assistance on this one. I searched the websites of all three of the publications you mentioned and didn't find a single article about the flaws in the EDJ business model. If you've seen one that discusses the flaws in the management of EDJ and their business model, I'd love to see it. I think I understand why you believe that there are flaws in the model, however. It was a misunderstanding on my part of what we were talking about. You were talking about the performance expectations of the clients and the tools you utilize to acheive them. Thus your comments about futures, SBA loans, and other non correlating asset classes. You are under the impression that because I don't have the ability to utilize different INVESTMENTS, that the entire business model that EDJ uses is flawed. So, you have a difference in opinion with the way Jones manages money, as if that has anything at all to do with the way we grow our business, manage our relationships, or work with our clients. You believe that the average investor out there should be utilizing a covered call strategy or buying non traded reits. See, I'm more concerned they're leaving their cash sitting in the bank earning them .01% than if they can cover a loss on BAC stock with a covering option. But that's evidently the way you want to run your business. That's fine. I don't. But that has nothing to do with EDJ. I happen to like the simplistic approach that EDJ uses. So do my clients. They have a difficult time understand a UIT or an ETF, much less a non traded REIT. I just want them to understand that they need to earn better than what they can on a CD so they can retire on time or pay their bills 10 years from now. I want them to understand that having 100% of their money in one local utility stock is a bad idea. I'll let guys like you worry about educating them on the virtues of short selling. And I'm OK with knowing that I'm not the guy for them if they want to do that with their money. Of course the street knows my limitations. Good thing my clients don't. I can't tell you how many times a client has called and asked me to take a short position in a stock. Oh, wait. Yes I can. ZERO. However, here on this forum, I'm told every day that my options at Jones are limited. That's not news to me.I would like to see “Big Cheese” post links to these articles that he is
referring to.
The American Funds wholesaler (aka big EJ producer) was Tom Bartow.
Tom Bartow is an idiot. He pulled his sorry-ass Napolean act on me. I called him out man to man in a hotel lobby during my time at Jones and left him speechless. He was about 2 seconds away from getting knocked out when he smartened up. I didn’t give a damn that I was 20 years the guy’s junior and towered over him by almost a foot. He just needed to have his ass kicked. I have zero respect for such a poser.
David Lane took over the office in 1989-90. Look at a chart of the S&P from that time until 2000. If you were smart enough to get your car started every morning it grew to $300 million easy. He's not half the genius he's made out to be in the EDJ world. Wann Robinson is a megalomanial sociopath. (Spiff runs to get dictionary!) Try losing a chin or two, you fool!Google David Lane for an appeal review on Lane’s divorce settlement. Some interesting reading about prenups, the value of GP, and the purported burnout rate of GP/RL’s.
I read John Wooden’s book again recently and realized Bartow’s presentations from the mid 00’s was a bunch of recycled stuff he probably read in the same book. I know he is allegedly “friends” with Wooden, but I don’t know to what extent.
[quote=Soothsayer]Tom Bartow is an idiot. He pulled his sorry-ass Napolean act on me. I called him out man to man in a hotel lobby during my time at Jones and left him speechless. He was about 2 seconds away from getting knocked out when he smartened up. I didn’t give a damn that I was 20 years the guy’s junior and towered over him by almost a foot. He just needed to have his ass kicked. I have zero respect for such a poser.
David Lane took over the office in 1989-90. Look at a chart of the S&P from that time until 2000. If you were smart enough to get your car started every morning it grew to $300 million easy. He's not half the genius he's made out to be in the EDJ world. Wann Robinson is a megalomanial sociopath. (Spiff runs to get dictionary!) Try losing a chin or two, you fool! [/quote] What's the deal with Robinson? I don't know anything about him, other than him being a pretty big producer.The content is blocked from our office PC's.Google David Lane for an appeal review on Lane’s divorce settlement. Some interesting reading about prenups, the value of GP, and the purported burnout rate of GP/RL’s.
You really should read the appeal review of David Lane's divorce settlement. Enlightening to say the least.....
And funny… I bet his wife is hot, because why else would you marry someone with a high school degree working at the local hotel(maid). She is about to get a nice slap in the face of reality…
By the way according to court documents your GP isn’t worth what you think it is…
[quote=tqspygame] And funny… I bet his wife is hot, because why else would you marry someone with a high school degree working at the local hotel(maid). She is about to get a nice slap in the face of reality…
By the way according to court documents your GP isn’t worth what you think it is…[/quote]
Old girl (Paula) got the shaft. Pre-nups (no matter how they are worded) are only supposed to cover income and assets at the beginning of the marriage. If there is a significant change (such as going from making $160k/yr to $1MM/yr), then that increase is considered marital.
$12k/ month for three years? $3k in child support? That’s crap. And the GP value seems a little low.
The GP is either worth what Lane’s lawyer said it is which makes LP worth almost nothing because GP isn’t owth much or it is worth a lot more and Lane is really a good family man.
Once again, a legend in the firm.......Why does it matter what they SAY it’s worth? All that matters is what it’s paying you. The lawyer could argue that it’s worth 12 bucks, but if it’s paying you 40-60% returns every year, who cares?
LP worth almost nothing? There is really very little basis in that comment. The lowest return on LP shares in the past 30 years is like 15% (in 1988), with the average being about 20%, and a guarantee of 7.5%. Although 2009 may go on record as the lowest ever (currently 12.5%). My assumption is that their claim is that the GP shares are not worth as much as what they are paying, since (like most private partnerships) to be a General Partner, you must be an active manager of the firm. Therefore a portion of that return is really "earned income", not simply returns on an investment. I can't see the document, so it's tough to comment, but I am sure he has a good lawyer that specializes in this kind of stuff. But to say GP isn't worth much, and LP is almost worthless is just a silly, inflammatory comment.[quote=B24]Why does it matter what they SAY it’s worth? All that matters is what it’s paying you. The lawyer could argue that it’s worth 12 bucks, but if it’s paying you 40-60% returns every year, who cares?
LP worth almost nothing? There is really very little basis in that comment. The lowest return on LP shares in the past 30 years is like 15% (in 1988), with the average being about 20%, and a guarantee of 7.5%. Although 2009 may go on record as the lowest ever (currently 12.5%). My assumption is that their claim is that the GP shares are not worth as much as what they are paying, since (like most private partnerships) to be a General Partner, you must be an active manager of the firm. Therefore a portion of that return is really "earned income", not simply returns on an investment. I can't see the document, so it's tough to comment, but I am sure he has a good lawyer that specializes in this kind of stuff. But to say GP isn't worth much, and LP is almost worthless is just a silly, inflammatory comment.[/quote] Ease up bro. Tonight google the info and read it and then respond tomorrow. Let me know if you think differently after you read the appeal, fair?Spiff-
I am an idiot for continuing to converse with you, that's for sure. You can't produce, only talk about it. I grossed 308K and netted 210K. I am not a huge producer but I didn't have to gross 500K to net it so maybe I might be a notch above an idiot. You can articulate well and often, if I were your manager I would recommend a few more outbound calls so you don't go in the red, again. You can have your 20K LP netting you 20% (4 f___ grand) and I'll take my 25% higher payout (last year I kept 75K I would have given the almighty GP that you would have paid if you grossed the same)and keep it for me and my family. And if I choose I will grow my company, not put huge dollars in GP's pockets. Oh and I can and frequently do offer clients the ability to hedge their losses. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with them taking a portion of their profits if they so choose. My compliance officer seems to agree that it's important to be able to offer clients choice. Can you do this Spiff? You can only offer what Jones feels is appropriate? Doesn't it challenge you not to be able to determine what is right/suitable for your clients? The reason I left Jones was because of management. I didn't trust them to look out for my clients interest first. I found they were most concerned about themselves and they cared little about the client and even less about the advisor.[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
I read the appeal. The GP estimation is low, IMHO. I don’t have any accounting basis for that, so it is simply my educated guess.Lawyers, absent a forensic accountant, don’t have a clue as to what stuff is worth. My LP is worth exactly what I put into it. If I have $50,000 in LP and I decided to cash out or leave Jones, they’d cut me a check for $50,000. I would assume that GP would work the same way. Since there aren’t any supporting documents in the PDF to see how they got to the $270K figure, I would have to assume that there is more to the story than some attorney randomly assigning the value of his GP to such a low figure.
With that said, I agree with B24. The comment about GP not being worth much and LP being almost worthless is one of the more ludicrous statements I’ve ever seen here. It’s not even a logical statement to make. GP’s have to sell out of their partnership at a certain age or when they leave the firm. Why would any of them invest in something that could be worth substantially less than what you’ve put it at any given time? It’s not a stock, so the value doesn’t fluctuate like stock. It’s not even a bond whose value fluctuates with the change of interest rates. There is no supply and demand curve. It is what it is. Jones says you want $X in partnership, you’re going to pay $X to get it. Like I said, there’s more to the story than what you read in that opinion. [/quote]
Here’s how these things work. Plaintiff and Defendant hire experts. They present their opinion to the court. The court decides which opinion is more valid.
The expert that is believed to be more credible by the court wins. My guess is, David Lane hired a VERY credible witness to tear apart how GP works and valued it considerably lower than it was worth. The fact that he only had to pay $60k in attorneys fees leads me to believe that she didn’t have a very good attorney or expert.
[quote=BigCheese]Spiff-
I am an idiot for continuing to converse with you, that's for sure. You can't produce, only talk about it. I grossed 308K and netted 210K. I am not a huge producer but I didn't have to gross 500K to net it so maybe I might be a notch above an idiot. You can articulate well and often, if I were your manager I would recommend a few more outbound calls so you don't go in the red, again. You can have your 20K LP netting you 20% (4 f___ grand) and I'll take my 25% higher payout (last year I kept 75K I would have given the almighty GP that you would have paid if you grossed the same)and keep it for me and my family. And if I choose I will grow my company, not put huge dollars in GP's pockets. Oh and I can and frequently do offer clients the ability to hedge their losses. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with them taking a portion of their profits if they so choose. My compliance officer seems to agree that it's important to be able to offer clients choice. Can you do this Spiff? You can only offer what Jones feels is appropriate? Doesn't it challenge you not to be able to determine what is right/suitable for your clients? The reason I left Jones was because of management. I didn't trust them to look out for my clients interest first. I found they were most concerned about themselves and they cared little about the client and even less about the advisor. [/quote] Do I find it challenging not to be able to determine what is right/suitable for my clients? I wasn't aware that I wasn't doing that. See, all of the clients that I've talked to said they wanted to retire, spend money, put kids through college, etc. NONE, let me say that again, NONE of them have said anything about puts, calls, spreads, straddles, hedge funds, etc. I have one guy that asks me about gold. That's it. I'm sure that there are some people out there that I won't ever work with because they think they need someone like you because fancy strategies are an absolute minimum that they'll accept in their portfolios. Um...OK. That's maybe, what, 1 out of 100 families? I'll take those odds. I'm not so sure if I went indy that I'd change my money managment style all that much. I like it the way it is. Who ever told you that we can't take profits? Maybe your fingers got ahead of your brain waves with that one. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. And as for hedging your losses, I never said that I didn't believe it was important. It's just not important for me to do it the same way you do. As for my production, my LP, and your assumptions, you can keep banging that drum if you want. I'm not dancing along. Not because I can't keep up, but because I choose not to. Congrats on a $308K year. I'm happy for you. BTW, I'm not the one talking about production. You are.I'd agree with that assessment. Another way to look at it is if he really didn't have that much GP at the time. He hadn't yet come into the home office yet and was still working in KY. The $1 mil would have probably been close to what he was getting in commission, bonuses, and GP combined. From what I understand the GPs in the field don't get as much GP as those in HQ do, because they're also still producing. Just a guess.
Here’s how these things work. Plaintiff and Defendant hire experts. They present their opinion to the court. The court decides which opinion is more valid.
The expert that is believed to be more credible by the court wins. My guess is, David Lane hired a VERY credible witness to tear apart how GP works and valued it considerably lower than it was worth. The fact that he only had to pay $60k in attorneys fees leads me to believe that she didn’t have a very good attorney or expert.
Do I find it challenging not to be able to determine what is right/suitable for my clients? I wasn't aware that I wasn't doing that. See, all of the clients that I've talked to said they wanted to retire, spend money, put kids through college, etc. NONE, let me say that again, NONE of them have said anything about puts, calls, spreads, straddles, hedge funds, etc.
Your clients (typically less sophisticated) only know what you tell them. And because you can't offer them you either steer the conversation away or tell them to go elsewhere. You can't offer non-correlated assets. While I was at Jones from 1998-2006 it was A share mutual funds and a little MAP if the clients really wanted to step out... Now you do have advisory and if one could look back at our threads years ago, you were advocating that it wasn't really necessary. Now, the montra is recurring revenue. Lp is the greatest thing since sliced bread, yet someone of your tenure, wouldn't have enough to make a difference, but its a point to remind us of. My reason for asking your gross was to get a reference. Do you really walk the talk? I am guessing not, but then again, I am an idiot who has been in the biz longer and apparently been more successful.I'd agree with that assessment. Another way to look at it is if he really didn't have that much GP at the time. He hadn't yet come into the home office yet and was still working in KY. The $1 mil would have probably been close to what he was getting in commission, bonuses, and GP combined. From what I understand the GPs in the field don't get as much GP as those in HQ do, because they're also still producing. Just a guess. [/quote] I am willing to bet there was an "agreement" that David would get additional GP at some point in the future (IOW they deferred his GP award), thus lowering his current assets. It was a win/win for him and the firm. The firm gets to split up a 300mm office into who know how many parts, and David gets to retain much of his assets until some point in the future.[quote=Moraen]
Here’s how these things work. Plaintiff and Defendant hire experts. They present their opinion to the court. The court decides which opinion is more valid.
The expert that is believed to be more credible by the court wins. My guess is, David Lane hired a VERY credible witness to tear apart how GP works and valued it considerably lower than it was worth. The fact that he only had to pay $60k in attorneys fees leads me to believe that she didn’t have a very good attorney or expert.
[quote=BigCheese]
Do I find it challenging not to be able to determine what is right/suitable for my clients? I wasn't aware that I wasn't doing that. See, all of the clients that I've talked to said they wanted to retire, spend money, put kids through college, etc. NONE, let me say that again, NONE of them have said anything about puts, calls, spreads, straddles, hedge funds, etc.
Your clients (typically less sophisticated) only know what you tell them. And because you can't offer them you either steer the conversation away or tell them to go elsewhere. You can't offer non-correlated assets. While I was at Jones from 1998-2006 it was A share mutual funds and a little MAP if the clients really wanted to step out... Now you do have advisory and if one could look back at our threads years ago, you were advocating that it wasn't really necessary. Now, the montra is recurring revenue. Lp is the greatest thing since sliced bread, yet someone of your tenure, wouldn't have enough to make a difference, but its a point to remind us of. My reason for asking your gross was to get a reference. Do you really walk the talk? I am guessing not, but then again, I am an idiot who has been in the biz longer and apparently been more successful. [/quote] Yes, my clients are typically less sophisticated. News flash - most people in this country haven't got a clue how to handle their money. Of course they're unsophisticated. I, and most of my Jones counterparts, work with simple people. They have simple needs, simple goals, and simple minds. For most of them if I mentioned the phrase hedge fund, they'd think I was talking about a bank account for their landscaping needs. I understand that I work at EDJ, there are limitations, and therefore I won't be able to offer my clients the same kind of fancy scenarios that you do. I'm OK with that. I can make a good living keeping my life, and my client's portfolios, very simple. You'll probably forever have to wonder if I'm a bigger producer than you. I don't plan on caving in on posting my production numbers. Never have never will. You say it's a point of reference. For whom and for what? Why don't you ask B24 what his numbers are? Or rankstocks? Or Moraen? Or ice's? I respect all of those guys, but I haven't got a clue what their production numbers are. It doesn't matter to me. Those guys post some good stuff. I don't always agree with them, but not because they don't make as much jack as I do. I don't agree with them because they have different opinions than I do. For everyone out there following this thread between foot and myself, if you would do him a favor and before you post your comments, make sure you put your 12 month trailing GDC for him to see. That way he knows whether or not to pay attention to you or not. Just FYI, if you're under $250K, don't even waste your time. You're not worthy of his time or attention.Spiff-
This is only directed to you because of the enormous amount of posts and opinions that you have. Ice is close, but he at least admits he is new. You continuously pontificate either to refrain from doing the work (my guess...waiting for them to walk in the door) or to at least have someone listen to you since you must not have enough clients (given the time you have on this forum) or prospects to talk to.
If you showed a little balance in your posts once in a while I wouldn't be challenging you. It's not about your production as much as your naive position regarding Jones. You simply have no clue and attempt to puff your chest every time you can, acting as if you actually have experience. You just know how to bend over for GP's with the hope one day that you can be just like them.
What a pitiful existence.[quote=BigCheese]Spiff-
I am an idiot for continuing to converse with you, that's for sure. You can't produce, only talk about it. I grossed 308K and netted 210K. I am not a huge producer but I didn't have to gross 500K to net it so maybe I might be a notch above an idiot. You can articulate well and often, if I were your manager I would recommend a few more outbound calls so you don't go in the red, again. You can have your 20K LP netting you 20% (4 f___ grand) and I'll take my 25% higher payout (last year I kept 75K I would have given the almighty GP that you would have paid if you grossed the same)and keep it for me and my family. And if I choose I will grow my company, not put huge dollars in GP's pockets. Oh and I can and frequently do offer clients the ability to hedge their losses. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with them taking a portion of their profits if they so choose. My compliance officer seems to agree that it's important to be able to offer clients choice. Can you do this Spiff? You can only offer what Jones feels is appropriate? Doesn't it challenge you not to be able to determine what is right/suitable for your clients? The reason I left Jones was because of management. I didn't trust them to look out for my clients interest first. I found they were most concerned about themselves and they cared little about the client and even less about the advisor. [/quote] That is glorious. Congrats to you on getting to that point of freedom and efficiency.[quote=BigCheese]
Spiff-
This is only directed to you because of the enormous amount of posts and opinions that you have. Ice is close, but he at least admits he is new. You continuously pontificate either to refrain from doing the work (my guess...waiting for them to walk in the door) or to at least have someone listen to you since you must not have enough clients (given the time you have on this forum) or prospects to talk to.
If you showed a little balance in your posts once in a while I wouldn't be challenging you. It's not about your production as much as your naive position regarding Jones. You simply have no clue and attempt to puff your chest every time you can, acting as if you actually have experience. You just know how to bend over for GP's with the hope one day that you can be just like them.
What a pitiful existence. [/quote] WTF? Spiff is awfully balanced on his viewpoints of Jones.My point was simply this: If GP is not worth a lot then LP which derives it’s value from the GP must be worth a lot less than I have been led to believe or David Lane really shafted his ex-wife with the cooperation of the home office by giving him less GP with an understanding to increase it significantly in the future…
Which is it?anon - thanks
BC - I have plenty of clients and prospects to talk to. Enough to do what I want to do in your all important gross commission column. Again, my numbers, my goals, my business. But thanks for worrying about me anyway. So, how do I know you're telling me the truth about your production numbers? And what do you think you've gained by telling us what it is? The guys out there grossing $500K now think you're just a punk kid. The noobs might think you're the bomb because you hit $300K and that they want to be like you someday. Others, like me, might think, man, only $300K? I would have thought the way he talks that he would have been a lot further along right now. That's not even Seg 4 territory. 9 years with Jones, indy experience before, 3 years after, That's not all that impressive. So why is it better for ice to be at the level of posts that he is, but not me? Especially as a new guy, why isn't it exponentially worse for him to be at my level (actually 50% past it) after not even two years of being here? That just doesn't make sense. But, does that make ice any more credible than me? Speaking of credibility, where are those articles you referenced before? You know the Forbes, WSJ, STL Biz Journal articles that documented the flaws in the EDJ business model? We can continue to have this stupid little back and forth, but if your goal is to prove me wrong, then by all means, get to it.To be fair I think he was attempting to make the case that it wasn’t worth as much to her as it was to him. Either way I found the talk about RL burnout to be interesting. I haven’t see that much RL turnover but I am very disconnected from Jones these days.
Spiff I just liked the percentage he was getting. I wasn’t raving about the overall production.
[quote=noggin] My point was simply this: If GP is not worth a lot then LP which derives it’s value from the GP must be worth a lot less than I have been led to believe or David Lane really shafted his ex-wife with the cooperation of the home office by giving him less GP with an understanding to increase it significantly in the future…
Which is it?[/quote]
The latter. As well as having a good expert witness to drop the value of that GP. My guess is it’s a combination of the two. But really, do you expect anything less?
My guess is GP is worth a LOT more than the case let on. It’s far more likely that the home office was complicit in shafting Paula Lane.
That doesn’t so ethical now does it Spiff. Reducing the value of GP so a less-educated divorcee would receive less support. It sounds like the firm is protecting their nest egg and ultimately David Lane.
What a great firm. I am sure all firms would do the same (thought I would beat you to it the classic response).Let me qualify. I would do the same thing for a valuable employee. Withhold a bonus. Delay the granting of an equity interest. Reduce payout, etc.
We don’t know the whole story. Perhaps she was giving the pool boy a good polishing. Or let one of her dirty hotel bellhops hit it right nasty-like. And he should have to pay for that?
The less-educated divorcee is not producing for the firm. Divorce isn’t about fairness. Come to think of it, neither is marriage.
Spiff-
I am not afraid or embarassed by numbers. They are what they are. Gross is difficult these days, but not impossible, I actually got a committment to place 200K in a couple of REITS today (14K gross) so I am feeling pretty darn good. I expect my revenue to jump to 500K by next year. I am doing marketing in a big way and referrals are starting to pick back up. My average household is now over 400K, without having any stated minimums. My numbers aren't outstanding, but they are definitely clients for life that generate it. 25% is recurring (Reits are not recurring revenue). So while I am no superstar, I am building my business and will look forward to the day that you and I can go toe-to-toe. Until then I have to assume you are struggling like alot of my friends at Jones grossing 18K per month. Putting on a good face, but in reality, you are struggling to survive ( I know I don't know you...but I know others like you in Segment 3 and they are struggling to make it). When you net 200K, let's talk. I think today that would be 600K gross in your lonely world. So far, all I can find are articles that talk about how dirty Jones was during the revenue sharing debacle. Since LPL also participates in revenue sharing I will refrain from posting those wonderful reminders of how great Jones is. Maybe I should post your 10K showing all the ways Jones Financial makes money on your revenue and doesn't trickle a dime down to you or should I remind you of the haircut you get on annuities or C shares. Oh lets talk about the bonus system...you aren't receiving any yet because your revenue isn't high enough to matter. You are smarter than most Jones brokers, maybe that's why I keep trying to get you to see that there is another viewpoint.[quote=Moraen] [quote=noggin] My point was simply this: If GP is not worth a lot then LP which derives it’s value from the GP must be worth a lot less than I have been led to believe or David Lane really shafted his ex-wife with the cooperation of the home office by giving him less GP with an understanding to increase it significantly in the future…
Which is it?[/quote]
The latter. As well as having a good expert witness to drop the value of that GP. My guess is it's a combination of the two. But really, do you expect anything less?
My guess is GP is worth a LOT more than the case let on. It's far more likely that the home office was complicit in shafting Paula Lane.[/quote] Moraen, It would make no difference to the ex wife if he got GP or not. Think about this.... She cannot own GP. It is converted to cash. However, if he had the cash available to buy the GP to begin with, she would have gotten 1/2 of the cash anyway. If he had to borrow the money to buy the GP she should have said "no thanks". She would have assumed 1/2 of the loan but then gotten her share in cash which she would have paid on her 1/2 of the loan she assumed. Splitting currently owned GP is a different matter. Current value is face value. I don't think you need an expert witness for that. Of course you could always argue the present value of the GP earnings (or whatever the cash is invested in for that matter). I bet an ex wife would just take the cash. Mine sure as hell did. Am I missing anything here? I did not Google David Lane's divorce so I do not know any of the specifics.
I'd agree with that assessment. Another way to look at it is if he really didn't have that much GP at the time. He hadn't yet come into the home office yet and was still working in KY. The $1 mil would have probably been close to what he was getting in commission, bonuses, and GP combined. From what I understand the GPs in the field don't get as much GP as those in HQ do, because they're also still producing. Just a guess. [/quote] I am willing to bet there was an "agreement" that David would get additional GP at some point in the future (IOW they deferred his GP award), thus lowering his current assets. It was a win/win for him and the firm. The firm gets to split up a 300mm office into who know how many parts, and David gets to retain much of his assets until some point in the future.[/quote] B24, Isn't GP both an asset and a liablility? Unless of course you have the cash to pay for it already? If that is the case wouldn't you already have the asset? I can understand the arguement of delaying income (the IRS has rules against this). I don't understand how delaying the use of a current asset to purchase another current asset changes a balance sheet? If I am correct (been wrong before) then how (or why) in the world would Jones be participating in this if it had ZERO effect on Lane's actual current networth?[quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=Moraen]
Here’s how these things work. Plaintiff and Defendant hire experts. They present their opinion to the court. The court decides which opinion is more valid.
The expert that is believed to be more credible by the court wins. My guess is, David Lane hired a VERY credible witness to tear apart how GP works and valued it considerably lower than it was worth. The fact that he only had to pay $60k in attorneys fees leads me to believe that she didn’t have a very good attorney or expert.
qwerty (ok, ok, ytrewq). Aren’t you a GP? I was hoping you would chime in. It seems you know more about the GP than the rest of us (I have very little knowledge of it). How is it given? How much is given when it is offered?
I’ve never had to deal with something as complicated as Edward Jones GP/LP. I’ve testified in three divorce cases and in one case, there was a partnership for an engineering business. The value of the partnership in this case was equal to projected cash flows (based on past ten years revenue).
I have no idea why Jones would participate in it if it were as you state. I’m just saying I would if I had a valuable employee, I’d try to help that guy out. I also don’t know anything about how much GP is ever offered. It always seemed very complicated when it should really be simple.
Ice - Spiff was talking about how he respects you no matter what your production numbers are.
Who says Jone’s does not have heavy hitters? Damn that dude was making some cash!
What does Spiff"s view of the world have to do with Effay’s battle to move his book? I’m glad Spiff doesn’t take his production numbers as seriously as others on the forum. Rock on Effay!
Moraen,
You are exactly right. The net present value is the sum of the discounted future cashflows (pretty suspect on the brokerage world right now eh?). Problem is that GP\LP awarded (in the future) is an asset and a liablility. I am going to make one prediction. All of us here are much more interested in his divorce than he is. Question for you Moraen....Why is divorce so expensive. Because it is worth it!!!! I know. Lame over used joke. I would love to hear about your experience testifying in divorce court. On the one hand I think I could be a great asset to the side I "represent". On the other hand I can imagine one hell of a fight. Not sure I want in other peoples' personal business. Your opinion?Saying someone is “stealing” their clients is a bit of a stretch. I doorknocked them, returned phone calls and serviced them. If you want to retain clients, maybe they should have found a suitable replacement with industry experience. I left EDJ last year and I’m glad they put a bump of a log in my old office; makes the competition all the easier.
I left EDJ last year after 11 years as a segment 5 LP to go Independent. They never pushed any fund. If anyone thinks different, I would welcome proof.
However, they are a bunch of slow witted brokers, with fat wives and lame stories about "family" and "the free trips". Not so free when you pay taxes on a so called free trip. To think that someone can't afford to buy a plane ticket when they net $30k per month and have $8k in expenses is ridiculous.I left last year. This is standard practice for many people who leave. I would take it on a person by person basis. The guy who replaced me has been quiet and hasn't said anything bad; I've done the same in return. I also think EDJ goes after the guys who leave later more aggressively than the early departures.
No matter, you'll do just fine. I wanted them to leave me alone to go my seperate way and they did. I now see how much smarter and better equipped LPL is to handle clients needs and the advisors in my new peer group outshine what I left behind.[quote=ytrewq] Moraen,
ytrewq,
The first time testifying was hell. There wasn’t much to fight over and when it was over, there was even less. About 95% of divorce cases don’t go to court, but when they do, it is nasty. The first time I testified, the attorneys I was working for didn’t prep me. The opposing counsel tore me to pieces.
The second two times I prepped myself (with a little help from the attorneys. The key is to make sure your exhibits are ironclad and attractive (Huge charts help the judge).
The first time, it was actually the client who hired me (I know I said I was working for the attorneys, but technically I was working for everyone at that point). You should only have the attorney hire you. That way, you don’t have to talk about anything and everything, just what the attorney wants you to.
Because you are at Jones and can receive no compensation for this (correct me if I’m wrong), I’m not sure exactly how it would work. Experts are supposed to be paid, but it may help you out a little because then you have no bias one way or another on the outcome of the trial (no conflict of interest from wanting the larger share of the 401k for instance). Opposing counsel will certainly nail you there.
Anyway, it’s fun, interesting work. I have been getting about one every two months or so and it’s pretty lucrative as an RIA (about $10k a case).
Jones does not allow us to be expert witnesses, even unpaid. Most likely, it’s so that if we F’up, we don’t drag Jones’ name down with it. Although it would be a neat niche to get into, I think I understand Jones’ position on not wanting us to get into that stuff. I haven’t heard of many wirehouse brokers being allowed to do that either.
In that case ytrewq and B24, I know a guy who can get you started on your own RIA
Your name got brought into the conversation because you post a lot. I know it is because you spend a lot of time in teacher's lounges and have nothing else to do if there aren't any teachers there. You're credibility is still what it was before. At least with me.I’m confused. Am I more or less credible than I was before this conversation? Actually, I’m most interested in discovering how I became part of the discussion; is it because of my big, um, “post count?”
[quote=BigCheese]Spiff-
I am not afraid or embarassed by numbers. They are what they are. Gross is difficult these days, but not impossible, I actually got a committment to place 200K in a couple of REITS today (14K gross) so I am feeling pretty darn good. - Congrats on a good day. I'm not afraid or embarassed by numbers either. If I was, I'd find myself another job. You are exactly right, they are what they are and they are more difficult these days to make than they were before. You got a committment for a $200K REIT order and I signed ACAT paperwork for a $300K Advisory Solutions transfer. I guess we both had a good day. I expect my revenue to jump to 500K by next year. I am doing marketing in a big way and referrals are starting to pick back up. My average household is now over 400K, without having any stated minimums. - I also expect my revenue to jump. I'm doing a lot of marketing also, by way of some sporadic doorknocking of old prospects, phone calls, seminars, mailings, etc. My average household isn't as big as yours, but all of the accounts I've brought in recently have been really good ones. People that I should be able to work with for the rest of my career. My numbers aren't outstanding, but they are definitely clients for life that generate it. 25% is recurring (Reits are not recurring revenue). So while I am no superstar, I am building my business and will look forward to the day that you and I can go toe-to-toe. Until then I have to assume you are struggling like alot of my friends at Jones grossing 18K per month. Putting on a good face, but in reality, you are struggling to survive ( I know I don't know you...but I know others like you in Segment 3 and they are struggling to make it). When you net 200K, let's talk. I think today that would be 600K gross in your lonely world. So far, all I can find are articles that talk about how dirty Jones was during the revenue sharing debacle. Since LPL also participates in revenue sharing I will refrain from posting those wonderful reminders of how great Jones is. - So, there's no documentation about how bad the Jones business model is? Hmmm...what do you think that means? Maybe I should post your 10K showing all the ways Jones Financial makes money on your revenue and doesn't trickle a dime down to you or should I remind you of the haircut you get on annuities or C shares. Oh lets talk about the bonus system...you aren't receiving any yet because your revenue isn't high enough to matter. - You can post the 10-K link if you want. I've read it already. I understand how the EDJ model works and what the pros and cons are. I don't work for an indy firm. It's an apples and oranges comparison. I'm comfortable with the way Jones works. There may be some day that I decide to leave EDJ. You'll probably be one of the first guys I PM with questions. You are smarter than most Jones brokers, maybe that's why I keep trying to get you to see that there is another viewpoint. - At least we can agree on something. I know there is another viewpoint. But it's your opinion that your situation is better than mine. I would guess that if you asked any of the Jones vets on this board you'd find that we all stay at Jones for different reasons. I may like the culture. Rankstocks may be so comfortable that he doesn't need to do anything different to be happy. Money isn't everything. You are more than welcome to voice your opinion. You are more than welcome to continue to believe what you want about me. We will probably have this discussion again someday. [/quote]SD- how long were you there?
Never mind. I figured it out!
[quote=sd_broker]
I left last year. This is standard practice for many people who leave. I would take it on a person by person basis. The guy who replaced me has been quiet and hasn't said anything bad; I've done the same in return. I also think EDJ goes after the guys who leave later more aggressively than the early departures.
No matter, you'll do just fine. I wanted them to leave me alone to go my seperate way and they did. I now see how much smarter and better equipped LPL is to handle clients needs and the advisors in my new peer group outshine what I left behind.[/quote] Hey SD, congratulations! Last year when...before, during, or after last fall's global meltdown? I think we could say it was a pretty freaked out market last year- how did you assuage your client's freakedoutness and get them to transition with you? How were you able to minimize EJ's aggressive hired gun attorneys from pursuing you with TROs etc? Did they send you the standard threat letters? Care to share your transition percentages and how happy you are with your transition? As always, what would you have done differently? thank you JPI left during October on a day the market fluctuated 10%. Thankfully I had exchanged most client stock MF’s into MMK’s the previous couple of months. This allowed clients time to decide what the wanted to do. People were still freaked out and wanted to know why I had left and if the firm was going down in flames. I said no, but that I had found a better opportunity and that I had come to the decision over a period of 5 or 6 months. I went through the reasons (tired of volunteering, recruiting, training newbies who failed). I also wanted more investment choices and platforms to help protect their savings. Even though I did not know what specifically I would be implementing, I wanted choices.
Every night was hell and I felt very unsure about everything including my choice and our profession. Through all of this I just kept calling people to explain why I left and telling them what their options were. I did myself a couple of favors; talking to my KRC's the day I left, taking my awesome assistant with me and having a fantastic new office. I received no TRO's and only a single letter. I did not make any of the mistakes people do when cutting corners (copying sensitive client info...). I was prepared a week ahead. Of the 70 clients I asked to transfer with me, 65 came over within 2 months. A couple are still considering it, but I am not actively calling them. You don't want everyone and the relationship is more important than the assets. I didn't even mail tombstone letters to some $1m plus accounts because they were difficult to deal with. The best thing I ever did for my career was joining EDJ, and the second best was leaving them. I've never been happier with a decision (although moving that $$ into cash before Lehman Brothers ranks a close second). The only thing I would change was the VOIP service we tried to use for outgoing faxes. Get a regular phone line and a good fax machine. I fixed this problem within 5 days, but it created a lot of double work...Source URL:https://www.wealthmanagement.com/forums/whats-firms/ej-1