Edward Jones # 1 again

Hey T 'n A,

Tell me, how you are in business for yourself at EDJ. 

BTW, Congrats on that statements award.  That's huge man.  Freakin un-real.

If you just had American Funds print them directly, you could cut out one extra name on them, making them that much easier to read.

Ex,



A little salt in the wound?



As your gross increased since you left Jones?



BPD

[quote=BigPayDay]Ex,

As your gross increased since you left Jones?

BPD[/quote]

Of course.

Is that bad?

What was it and what is it now?



BPD

BPD,

Is it about gross or net?  I always thought net is what paid my bills and fed my family - why don't you compare that?

[quote=BigPayDay]What was it and what is it now?

BPD[/quote]

You don't actually think it's rare for people to increase their revenue after leaving Jones, do you?

[quote=The Answer]

Sorta like Apple Pie and America. Edward Jones and #1.

Take a look:

http://www.investmentnews.com/article.cms?articleId=53879

TA

[/quote]

"Effectiveness"? You mean they print statements that show mutual fund kickbacks, contest points earned by the broker and the value of "touchdown" bonds?

MB,

Only Jones advisors increase their gross.  This slays me, they are actually bragging about statements.  Here's a question for the Jones advisors;

How do you conduct tax-loss harvesting for your clients?  or

How do you build a financial plan for your clients?  How about an estate plan? 
It seems to me that these are some metrics that matter, where are your surveys for them?

My gross, net, net/net and my AUM are all up since leaving Jones two years ago.

According to Edward Jones, I don't exist.  Brokers who leave only take half their book, make less money, and regret their decision.  Funny that there are so many like me--never been happier and good riddance EDJ.

[quote=BigPayDay]What was it and what is it now?

BPD[/quote]

Even anonymously, I dont like talking about myself. But since you asked,

I left Jones in seg 3. About 2 mos before and 2 mos after the move production was pretty low for me.  I timed my move so I had some things that I knew would hit when I was on the other side.  Haven't been ind. that long but by this time next month my gross would put me at or very near seg 4 #'s.  My pipe has stayed pretty full through the add'l contact with clients, new money, and inc referrals.  Clients have told me they are more comfortable with my new arrangement.

I told no clients I was moving, I just had some faith that the stuff I had in the pipe would still be there when I landed on the other side.  It was.

These are the only numbers I am going to share here so don't ask me for hard figures, AUM, or anything else.  I like my anonymity here.

You don't have to be a big producer to leave Jones, have a nice office and keep an admin full time w/ benes.  You just need to do your homework, put together a plan,  make the decision, and never look back.

Exdrone wrote: "Clients have told me they are more comfortable with my new arrangement."



Ex,



Exactly what is it that your client’s are more comfortable about?



BPD

[quote=BigPayDay]Exdrone wrote: "Clients have told me they are more comfortable with my new arrangement."

Ex,

Exactly what is it that your client's are more comfortable about?

BPD[/quote]

Some clients have told me they thought Jones was telling me what to sell.  They think being away from a large firm gives me more objectivity when recommending investments.  I'm no rocket scientist but this may have something to do with the recent rev sharing issues. I simply feel like I have more tools in my bag.

Ex,



So you’re firm doesn’t do revenue sharing? What firm is that?



BPD

10 REASONS I AM THANKFUL I LEFT EDWARD JONES......

10. FREEDOM

 9. HIGHER PAYOUTS ON MUTUAL FUNDS

 8. MANAGED ACCOUNTS / FEE BUSINESS

 7. MEANINGFUL SOFTWARE

 6. HIGHER PAYOUTS ON STOCK SALES

 5. HIGHER PAYOUTS ON ANNUITIES

 4. HIGHER PAYOUTS ON LTC

 3. HIGHER PAYOUTS ON LIFE INSURANCE

 2. PAYING A LOT LESS FOR COMPUTER SERVICES

 1. NOT HAVING TO WAIT TO GET A BONUS THREE TIMES  A YEAR IF THE GP'S SAY SO, SINCE WE GET PAID WEEKLY 

Bench Warmer,



It’s interesting that you didn’t mention your CLIENTs being better off. Are there any reasons your clients are thankful you left Edward Jones?



BPD

[quote=exdrone]

[quote=BigPayDay]Exdrone wrote: “Clients have told me they are more comfortable with my new arrangement.” Ex, Exactly what is it that your client’s are more comfortable about? BPD[/quote]

Some clients have told me they thought Jones was telling me what to sell. They think being away from a large firm gives me more objectivity when recommending investments. I’m no rocket scientist but this may have something to do with the recent rev sharing issues. I simply feel like I have more tools in my bag.

[quote=BigPayDay]Bench Warmer,

It's interesting that you didn't mention your Clients being better off. Are there any reasons your clients are thankful you left Edward Jones?

BPD [/quote]

YES,  They are happy that they don't have to put up with JERKS LIKE YOU AND DOUG "3 MIL" HILL AND HIS STUPID NEWSLETTERS ...But since you asked here are the TOP 10 REASONS MY CLIENTS ARE GLAD I LEFT EDWARD JONES:

10. My clients also like the FACT my FIRM wasn't hit for 75 million in fines and facing close to 1 Billion in CA settlement.........

  9. FEE BASED BUSINESS (NO I WON'T EDUCATE YOU ON WHY IT'S BETTER THAN A SHARES) MY CLIENTS LOVE IT

  8. WHEN MY CLIENTS COME IN IT IS FOR SERVICE, NOT SELLING THEM THE "FLAVOR" OF THE MONTH LIKE YOU STILL DO...........DO THEY STILL HAVE THOSE SATURDAY PROMOTIONS, LIKE SELLING A "STOCK" or  'BOND" or A PARTICULAR "MUTUAL FUND"  OH, YEA BFD, THAT'S REALLY TAKEN CARE OF YOUR CLIENT ISN'T IT? Do you think they don't know it?

   7. BY THE WAY MY CLIENTS DO READ THE "WSJ" SO THEY ARE VERY PLEASED I LEFT..........They relate to the articles.

    6.  The don't have a nebie that Edward Jones put in my old Office, that's still wet behind the ears

   5.  They really love our customer statements, it really smokes Edward Jones statements

   4.  They love our financial plan, that is reinforced every quarter when we have our review

    3. They love that we don't bug them with unecessary crap that is mailed in their Quarterly statement.

     2. They LOVE NOT PAYING HIGH COMMISSIONS........

     1. THEY LOVE THE FACT THERE IS MORE THAN ON IR IN OUR OFFICE, AND ALL OF OUR STAFF IS LICENSED SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO CALL SOME DIM WIT IN ST. LOUIS TO GET AN ANSWER...... 

 HAPPY THANKSGIVING

Player,



What is your favorite kind of fee business?



- Fee in lieu of commission



- Mutual fund wrap



- Seperately managed accounts



Inquiring minds want to know.



BPD

[quote=BigPayDay] [quote=exdrone]

[quote=BigPayDay]Exdrone wrote: "Clients have told me they are more comfortable with my new arrangement." Ex, Exactly what is it that your client's are more comfortable about? BPD[/quote]

Some clients have told me they thought Jones was telling me what to sell.  They think being away from a large firm gives me more objectivity when recommending investments.  I'm no rocket scientist but this may have something to do with the recent rev sharing issues. I simply feel like I have more tools in my bag.

[/quote]

Ex,

So your firm doesn't do revenue sharing? What firm is that?

BPD[/quote]

Many firms have revenue sharing. MOST firms don't have such a small list of fund families that are part of the revenue sharing program, don't have such a massive percentage going to a single member of that list AND don't run year long contests or have payouts where production based on using members of the revenue sharing list get special treatment.

See the diff'?

Correct Mr Butler.

Sorry Sniper, but we have a revenue sharing agreement with over 25 fund families, not just the “preferred” families. Last I looked, Capital Guardian was getting the majority of EVERYONES money, not just Jones. Don’t know anything about " year long contests" or special treatments by using the “preferreds” matter of fact, you don’t know about any of that either. but, it did read well!

SPecial treatment is access to Jones IR's at most meetings and div trips that vendors pay a signifigant amount for.  When was the last time a Columbia wholesaler spoke at a Jones regional meeting? How about AIM?  How about Franklin prior to them becoming preferred?

Contests are six months long not a year and they are gross production driven in different categories. 

That's nice that Jones has so many revenue sharing agreements in place.  Do all vendors make annual payments to Jones for assets on the books?  Answer is no.  Only the preferred ones do.  Also the P&L credit that increases the IR's bonus is based upon preferred family revenue sharing only.   80 million per year is the largest revenue sharing as a percentage of total revenues of any firm in the industry.

I'm taking off...have a good 4 day weekend.   

Zacko, you’d be surprised how little the vendors pay towards the trip. Very little I have seen the numbers. Have a great Thanksgiving!

I would like to take the occasion of Thanksgiving to thank Guest 1,Big Pay Day, Player and Zacko. I come to this board daily and watch the banter. GOOD STUFF. Very entertaining.  It is very similar to listen to my buddies drink beer and debate who is the greatest quarterback of all time Elway or Montana. (personally I love Marino however I realize he is not the greatest due to no rings, but I digress) I speak in my opinion knowledgeably about Jones and life away from Jones as I recently left. Simply put Jones is a great firm and on some levels I still defend them. However, they do not have the platforms and products available that others do and this is a fact. What is also a reality is that what they do offer is sufficient for many clients if the representative is sharp. I am being literal to all of you I think it is funny, cost efficient entertainment so I hope all parties stay engaged in the debate. I have to also say I think Zacko has very sharp insight to the forum. Happy Thanksgiving.

Zacko- Your comment about P&L credit is very outdated, you might want to check it out. Have  a great Thanksgiving!

[quote=Guest1]Sorry Sniper, but we have a revenue sharing agreement with over 25 fund families, not just the "preferred" families. Last I looked, Capital Guardian was getting the majority of EVERYONES money, not just Jones. Don't know anything about " year long contests" or special treatments by using the "preferreds" matter of fact, you don't know about any of that either. but, it did read well![/quote]

If they have over 25 agreements, why does Jones only list their rev sharing agreements for the preferred 8 on their website?

[quote=Guest1]Sorry Sniper, but we have a revenue sharing agreement with over 25 fund families, not just the "preferred" families. Last I looked, Capital Guardian was getting the majority of EVERYONES money, not just Jones. Don't know anything about " year long contests" or special treatments by using the "preferreds" matter of fact, you don't know about any of that either. but, it did read well![/quote]

Do answer Ex-drone's question about why only eight firms were listed. If you have some evidence that Capital Guardian is taking the same percentage from every firm as they are at Jones, provide it. And yes, contests for trips, and a special status given towards production done with the "preferred families".

[quote=zacko]

Contests are six months long not a year and they are gross production driven in different categories. 

[/quote]

Thanks for the update. "Sales contests" just aren't things that clean, professional organizations conduct.

MB,



You’ll be happy to know that EJ doesn’t have a diversification contest anymore. It is called a diversification program. There, is that better?



BPD

Ex, Jones only list the preferred because that is where the percentages are. Look at Merrill, SSB or any other relevent firm, they only list the top contributors. They ALL have over 20+ agreements.

Mike, grow up! Jones offered "special" contest points for a total of 3 months. Big mistake, they saw that and dropped it. 3 months out of 20 years is pretty trivial. Are you previous Jones? Qualify for any trips?

[quote=Guest1]Zacko, you'd be surprised how little the vendors pay towards the trip. Very little I have seen the numbers. Have a great Thanksgiving![/quote]

Guest1

Then what happens to the excess commissions you don't see?

Ask anyone that has left Jones, it's not just that the (90 to 95%)payouts are higher, but the actual commission is higher...........and were does that go........to GPs'S

You are very naive, according to your postings....................Check out the FACTS

[quote=BigPayDay]MB,

You'll be happy to know that EJ doesn't have a diversification contest anymore. It is called a diversification program. There, is that better?

BPD[/quote]

Aside from changing the event's name, was anything else done? Are there still trips for those that complete the "program"? Does completion of the "program" affect reps' income?

Nothing wrong with winnings trips...but don't try to call it something else.  Diversification Program?

Well, I put 100k in C shares for the day and a 70k VA so Im outta here. 

Zack,

You may not be staying at the Westport but if you keep screwing your clients with C shares then THEY will be.

Oracle,

You are clueless.  Your comment shows it.  6% of net amount invested in full A share is nearly a 7 year breakeven with a C share as far as fees.  I actually take a pay cut for quite some time when I use C shares.  Reason I use C shares is two fold.  One: it allows us multi-family flexibility if we need to change funds and move to another family.  I know at Jones, moving to another A share would be your choice.  How can you think rationally when you have different payouts on A vs C?  You have trained yourself to think that A is better--when indeed they are not in many cases.

Secondly, as an advisor--I am being paid annually for the advice and service me and my office staff provide.  My responsibility (or liability)doesn't end--it begins with an investment purchase--as should my compensation. 

I still use A shares for larger breakpoints.  I have a choice--you don't.  So, it is you who is not doing right by your client.  I don't blame you however--it's the way you have been trained.

[quote=zacko]

Oracle,

I still use A shares for larger breakpoints.  I have a choice--you don't.  So, it is you who is not doing right by your client.  I don't blame you however--it's the way you have been trained.

[/quote]

Zacko is being very gracious in calling you trained, I think brainwashed definitely applies here.  And that signature of yours, wow.  I think we've got a real thinker here.

A Jones "IR" is often so conditioned that to what Jones preaches as being gospel.  They are trained to see Jones as the "Answer" and most other firms as less than ethical.  What a shame to not have an orginal thought.

Multi family flexibility would have been a nice benefit to the EDJ
Putnam and Goldman clients when they blew up—if they would have had C
shares.  These train wrecks didn’t bother my local Jones wizard
though, he just had his clients pay another “A” share load when he
churned them to another “preferred” fund family member. 



Oracle, btw, “A” share expenses for many of Hartford and Goldman funds
(my local EJ/IR’s favorites)are 1.41 to 1.45/year (Hartford-advisor,
cap app, div/gro: & Goldman-aggr grw, grw opp1.41-1.52/yr).
vs.  “C” share American funds-(am bal, wm, amf 1.40-1.45). 
So why pay any load to go with Goldman or Hartford when you can buy an
American Fund C share instead?  Oh yeah, I forgot, you get an
upfront commiss for the A share, don’t you?  Qualify for a special
trip, er “program”?



Oracle, as long as EDJ is selling pricey fund families like Hartford
and Goldman with A share expenses in the 140-150 bs pts range, bashing
Zacko for a C share ticket-well, it certainly proves you’ve picked the
wrong name for this forum. 

Cerb,



You will be dissapointed to know that the American Fd C share converts to an R share after 10 years. 12b1 goes from 1.00 to .25. Why is it that if C shares are so good for the client that they will not allow you to put in more than $500k?



When does a $100k order in C shares start to cost more than $100k in A shares?



Speaking of Goldmann, They along with Lord Abbett were just added to the EJ managed money platform.



What great firm are you affiliated with Cerb?



BPD

BPD,

For 500k: We use fee based accounts for that size or we use A shares providing we can do it with just a few families to reach signifigant breakpoints.  But I'd tend to opt for fee based as you gain more flexibility.  I guess you could go either way in an IRA since cap gains wouldn't be an issue.  I also don't use American Funds either. 

100k in an A share is 3.75%  so....if a C shares is 75bps more expensive than an A share it comes close to 5 years on the breakeven.  Many clients will hold a fund five years...many will not.  Most will want those funds invested in the market for longer than five years so having the flexibility to move makes sense.

Example..lets say that you were in Lord Abbett Affiliated....and you were looking for an alternative for it since it has been performing poorly for the last few years...where you gonna go in Lord Abbett?  But, in a C share--the sales charge is a non-issue when moving to another family.

I'm not saying that C shares are the only way to go--what I AM saying is that at Jones--the payout is so low at 30% that it's not a viable option for you to use (C shares) EVEN IF happens to best suit your particluar client.  So, you force yourself to fall in love with the A share for all clients.  That's not fair to the IR nor is it fair to the client.  Fainess would be the same payout on ALL share classes so you--the advisor can choose what best suits your client without influence.  That's independence.

Are we really supposed to take a survey seriously when Jones’ reps rate their 1970s (are they still on Colecos or is it Windows 95 now?) high and claim they have little pressure to sell specific products (perhaps there’s no pressure to not going on the Amway trip?)?

MikeButler,



Just one question for you.



Then why are you so jealous of Edward Jones?



BPD

[quote=BigPayDay]MikeButler,

Just one question for you.

Then why are you so jealous of Edward Jones?

BPD[/quote]

Looks like that's going to be the lame response to every post that knocks the legs out from under Jones' propaganda 

It’s a fairly simple question. I have tried to answer your questions.



BPD

bpd,

no you are just spouting the cult ... I mean company line(s)

EdJones654,



The company cult that is part of your screan name, you mean?

And what great firm are you affiliated with?



BPD

BPD,

One can despise the firm without being jealous of it.  One thing that seems to irritate many is the sef righteous attitude many Jones brokers have about their firm vs the rest of firms in our industry.  Any one with a brain knows that there are good advisers at all firms just as there are bad ones.  However, I remember the regional meetings where the message that other firms are evil and the brokers there are basically out to screw the client over through the excessive use of B shares or VA's or you name it.

I know there is a lot more scrutiny of a VA or B share order here at LPL than there was at EDJ.  The self righteous, pious attitude at Jonesis totally unfounded.

Congrats on the reward.  But the animosity toward Jones is not out of jealousy, but a backlash from the attitude expressed by people like your friend Oracle. 

On that note, if A shares and breakpoints are the only answer, than every Jones broker should eat their own cooking and put all their personal money into one fund family.  If I wasn't in the industry I would gladly pay a little extra to have a diversified portfolio that wasn't all fished out of the same pot.

Ex,

So can you sell A share annuities?

No.

Why not?

[quote=The Answer]

Ex,

So can you sell A share annuities?No.

Why not?

[/quote]

No, TA my b/d does not have A share annuities.  I honestly couldn't tell you why.

My clients however do have access to a no-load annuity with an M&E of 65pbs.  Of course there is also an advisory fee.  But here, the advisor gets to determine that fee. It can be as low as 50pbs so you can decide how much service you offer and what your advice is worth. 

Now I'm no math genius but I do know that the total fees for the no-load annuity are more than the M&E of the typical A share annuity, buy my client did not pay a load to aquire this annuity.  So in a few years when those darn insurance companies come up with some new feature, that may benefit my client, they will pay nothing to 1035 into a new contract.  Yours on the other hand will pay another load.

Now Mr A share, why dont you tell me how many diff fund families you have money with in your 401k?

Arguing product with a Jones broker is getting more like a college grad teaching a 1st grader to read.

[quote=exdrone]

BPD,

One can despise the firm without being jealous of it.  One thing that seems to irritate many is the sef righteous attitude many Jones brokers have about their firm vs the rest of firms in our industry.  Any one with a brain knows that there are good advisers at all firms just as there are bad ones.  However, I remember the regional meetings where the message that other firms are evil and the brokers there are basically out to screw the client over through the excessive use of B shares or VA's or you name it.

I know there is a lot more scrutiny of a VA or B share order here at LPL than there was at EDJ.  The self righteous, pious attitude at Jonesis totally unfounded.

Congrats on the reward.  But the animosity toward Jones is not out of jealousy, but a backlash from the attitude expressed by people like your friend Oracle. 

On that note, if A shares and breakpoints are the only answer, than every Jones broker should eat their own cooking and put all their personal money into one fund family.  If I wasn't in the industry I would gladly pay a little extra to have a diversified portfolio that wasn't all fished out of the same pot.

[/quote]

WELL SAID..........

As for BFD, maybe we should all call you: HE HATE ME  understand this is not personal, it's the self righteous attitude projected from Edward Jones the FIRM thru Drones, like you guest1, Oracle, etc that can NEVER ADMIT, your Firm has screwed-up, everyone does, but Jones just never admits it..........

[quote=exdrone] [quote=The Answer]

Ex,

So can you sell A share annuities?No.

Why not?

[/quote]

No, TA my b/d does not have A share annuities. I honestly couldn’t tell you why.

My clients however do have access to a no-load annuity with an M&E of 65pbs. Of course there is also an advisory fee. But here, the advisor gets to determine that fee. It can be as low as 50pbs so you can decide how much service you offer and what your advice is worth.

Now I’m no math genius but I do know that the total fees for the no-load annuity are more than the M&E of the typical A share annuity, buy my client did not pay a load to aquire this annuity. So in a few years when those darn insurance companies come up with some new feature, that may benefit my client, they will pay nothing to 1035 into a new contract. Yours on the other hand will pay another load.

Now Mr A share, why dont you tell me how many diff fund families you have money with in your 401k?

BPD,

I am aware of muti manager VA's.  These are the kind of comments that cause animosity toward you and your ilk

"But here, the advisor gets to determine that fee. What ever we can get away with. You'd be silly to do it at .5% and the bluer the hair the higher the fee. We don't really service these accounts any differently than a non-wrap account."

I has nothing to do with jealousy.  Believe me I am not jealous.  Now why don't you or your cronies answer my question:

How many different fund families to you have money with inside your 401k?

If A shares and break points are the only answer, every client with less than 1 mill should only own funds from one family.  If it is good enough for them it should be good enough for you too.

Ex,



So then how axactly do you determine how much you charge for a wrap account?

I'll tell you how I do it, when you tell me how many different fund familes you own.

Ex, don't be surprised if he eats his own cooking...his 401(K) is probably all in American Funds...

Ex,



Call me a simpleton if you want to. Here’s my mix in my 401k as well as deferred compensation plan:



20% CIB

20% AMF

20% CWGI

20% GFA

10% NPF

10% New World



If it ain’t broke, why should I fix it.



Now, answer the question.

Wow...think I'll go buy a lottery ticket...

BPD...AMF?!! WOOF!  Third Avenue Value might be an appropriate replacement...that's all the help I'm giving you...you want any more assistance, you'll have to pay me for it.  I would let GFA stand, but that's about it...

BPD,

I have clients keep fixed income and cash in a brokerage acct where no annual fee is charged.  I have the m hold equities and funds in an advisory acct where I charge from 1.25 -.9% per year.  I'm still pretty new at thea advisory side of the business but have been building it up over the last couple of months.

As far as service I provide for the fee.  I am doing quarterly reviews and financial plans updated annually.  Next quarter I am flying 3000 miles to meet with client to complete a comprehensive fin plan and meet with his estate planning attny.  That will end up costing me a few bucks as well as cost me 3 days of production.  I never could have delivered that level of service at Jones.  I guess if I were just selling American Funds they could just as easlily do business with their local Jones broker, but that is not my thing.

If your book of business looks anything like your 401(k), how can your firm possibly reward you with a "diversification" trip twice a year?

P.S. I know reps at Jones that use VA's because they are the only multi manager platform at Jones.  What are your thoughts on that?

Indyone,

I was shocked but you were right.  BTW, BPD cant buy that fund.  It is not offered through his firm.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pi?s=TAVFX

That's a shame...Marty Whitman is a fine value manager and I've sure got him running part of my retirement account.

BTW, I was pretty sure that was the case, as the ONE account that moved to EDJ instead of following me out of the bank told me that they had to sell Third Avenue Value to make the move, along with several other of my best performers.  The customer was fed a line of sh*t about how they could hold the same funds at Edward Jones without paying my management fees.  The Jonser also told my client that I would probably move around a lot and asked him if he wanted to go through the transfer mess each time I decided that I wanted a better deal for me...what a lying jackass.  By the time they realized what had really happened, the damage was done.  The customer assured me that going forward, I would get the new money...he still likes the unethical Jones jackass and doesn't want to hurt his feelings.

...just one of many reasons that I would never work at EDJ and have no respect for the local Jones reps I have to deal with...

indyone,

isn't it funny when you hear a jones advisor on this site counter one of us with the is it all about the money?  I wonder why that advisor would slam your old client of one fund and into another - that too is why  I despise that firm and 99% of the advisors that work w/ them.

exdrone & csmelnix- I find in my practice that I am a lot more comfortable offering PZFVX and CVGRX rather than TAVFX.  Both of those funds are in my top 25 rankings. I hope you are having a wonderful holiday season, my best to you and your families!

noggin,

I know you well and still find your wit amusing.

BR

Noggin,

I appears that you do look outside the Jones box when advising clients.  How do you reconcile the fact that your payout is dramatically reduced when offering anything but A shares, and you clients have a much harder time reaching breakpoints when you use multiple fund families?

Do you just suck it up yourself and recommend C shares? or Do you diversify with A shares?

exdrone- That reduction in payout I do not like, however, if a C share is the most correct for that client that is the direction we go. It may cost me in the short run but in the long run I believe it to be the right thing to do. It is really hard to put a client in A shares if they tell you it may be quite some time before they reach a breakpoint, so I don’t like to do it.

noggin,

Thanks for responding.  When I was at Jones I pretty much did the A share thing to reach breakpoints.  With the few clients who simply did not want to pay the load, I used C shares and multiple families, always preferreds though.  Even with the preferreds I really felt good about puting those portfolios together.  I couldn't imagine doing the research of finding the best funds and either not being able to sell them or taking a pay cut to get clients diversified.  Jones doesn't even give you any real help with the research.  Sounds crazy but kudos to you for doing it.

90/90/90 (A, B, C) = payout I receive as an indy on all share classes.  It should be the same since I know my client and my firm doesn't. 

Being free to choose what I feel is best for my client without regard to a change in payout or some ridicoulous firm policy is especially liberating when having been at Jones.  I couldn't imagine going back there or even why someone would want to stay there when the indy channel exists in it's current form.

Zacko- If you want to go that route, You have to pay a ticket charge I don’t… Do you drop 1K orders for C shares?? Probably not because you would owe money on that trade.

Noggin..Your kidding me right?  Is that what they tell you at Jones? 

On small trades I will often DCA the $$ in so there is no ticket charge.  There is no ticket charge on SWPS on either buys or sells or for exchanges.  ALso, you can NEVER owe money on a mutual fund ticket because of a ticket charge.  You net out at zero...

If you did the math at most RJFS  practices you would find their net/net before office overhead such as rent, utilities, etc--at about 79-82%.  Mine was 81% this year.  My over head brought me down to 65% or so before taxes.  ANd, that's with a a fair amount of advertsing.  I could easily get it to 67-68% if I backed off on the advertising.

BOTTOM LINE--MOST OF YOU GUYS STILL AT JONES SPOUTING THE COMPANY LINE OR SAYING YOU HAVE "EXPLORED" IT and THE GRASS IS GREENER AT JONES COULDN'T BE MORE WRONG.  GOING INDY IS SIMPLY THE BEST PERSONAL AND BUSINESS MOVE YOU CAN MAKE...PERIOD

To find the smallest flaw in the indy channel and proclaim "It's better at Jones..I knew it all along"--just shows how far removed you are from reality.  Here are the facts IMHO, if your a 150k producer stay at Jones.  If your a 200k producer...it could go either way.  If your above 250k...it's noticeably better as an indy.  If your like me and did 700k this year...I took home about 12k NET more home per month than I did at Jones.  And those numbers are conservative as I write alot of shi t off.

Zacko- I was just playing with you. No need to blow a blood vessel… Gosh, don’t you have a sense of humor??

Noggin,

Not upset--just pointing out some facts that may help others.

It's that most people at Jones have no clue about what it's like as an indy and they base their opinion upon hearsay that comes from EJ Management or from un reliable third party info. 

It's cool man..

Better known as KOOL AID…

BigPayDay,    Per your 12/2 post:

Uh BPD, let’s reread your prospectus. C shares convert to R shares? I don’t think so. Try C to F. 



And I’m not disappointed at all about the conversion.  If the
client wants to buy a C share, this is a fair deal for them and for
me.  AF’s expenses are low, overall their returns have been
reasonable, they give us great service, so I can live with the drop at
10 years.  We have other fund companies with c shares that we
should get 200 bips a year in commiss to break even,ie-manager
turnover, bad performance, cap gain payouts, etc.



If the client is looking at 100k, they’re going to be shown all their
options, (fee, c, a) I’m probably going to do my best to steer them to
the A share for the breakpoint and the lower A share expenses.  In
the end, it’s their choice.  That being said…



What I would really like to do is to thank you and all your fellow
Jones buddies for your adoration of the “A” share.  What I call
the “bad” A share. Not the good A share, but the bad one. You know, the
one where the client’s paid a load, the performance has been crappy and
the expenses are 120 to 150 bips a year.  VanKamp, Goldman &
Federated have a bunch of these beauties and I LOVE them.  I just
put my AF C share with NO load, 1 yr cdsc &  10 yr CONVERSION
TO LOWER fees against the “BAD” A share with LOAD & HIGH expenses
that are NOT going down after 10 years.  Usually just showing the
prospect the extra fees/$$ they will be paying in years 11-15 after our
C share fees drop vs. the BAD A share is enough to get the ACAT
paperwork started.  If not, I just hand them the calculator and
have them figure out how many dollars they paid in “load” for their BAD
A share.   Conversion bother me? Naw. My secret wish is that
Weddle narrows your preferred families down to just Goldman, Fed &
Van Kamp and you open 20,000 offices.  I’ll retire 5 years early.



Per your comment on adding Goldman and LA to the EJ managed money
platform – well, it’s just stunning after all the abuse we’ve received
from EJ posters on fee accounts and C shares. Fee &  C shares
are screwing our clients but managed money is ok? what…?



I am not with a great firm.  I am with RJFS.  If I left for
another firm, I would never consider them great either. RJ clears my
trades, hopefully keeps me compliant &  provides backoffice
support.  The firm’s just a necessary tool.   You & I,
Zacko & Oracle, EJ, wirehouse or Indy, and all the other posters on
this board, you know we are the magic.  We are  the ones that
make great things happen for our client’s lives.  The more any of
us hide behind or depend on the persona of our firm, the less our
clients will see our greatness.  Our choice.



Merry Christmas everyone, Cerb







Cerb

OUTSTANDING…CERB

Cerb,

Nice words. 

On the C share conversion here's a little math....Let's say you build up 20 million over several years of working with American Funds C shares.  Which could be easily done if your doing a decent business.  20 million will generate $200k gross or about 190k NET if you are indy.  Are you prepared to have your net decline to only 40k or so?  Aprroximately a 150k DROP?  You will be working just as hard and servicing your clients with the best your town has to offer.  And also assuming the same responsibility AND liability as previously...so why the cut in pay?

Be fair to your client, but be fair to yourself at the same time.

I have taken my last hair cut on commissions, I earn them the old fashion way, with effort and results, and great customer service, and I will not apologize for getting paid very well for what I do for my clients, atleast now as an advisor, if they make more, I make more, and what's wrong with that?

If we loose money for our clients we might loose them, but again as an advisor, my income drops if their investments go down, and what's wrong with that?  

Let em all eat cake.............................