Deals offered by firms

Around 400K T12, have heard offeres from Wells in the bank branch for 70% upfront, 60% backend.  Also heard Merrill 125% upfront 60% backend.  Do these sound competitve for those who have heard recently?

Those sound inline, however I would assume you should be able to also negotiate a higher guaranteed payout your first year, a title increase, and a expense account.  Given all the bad press constantly out there abot BAC and ML, I do not know why u would consider ML for 125% when MSSB is up to 140-150, and UBS is very competivitve.  If you were to go to Wells for that deal I would knock it down from 9 yrs to 7 yrs if u could. 

Wells Fargo was offering rising star package at 100% T12 plus three years 25% each on previous T12 production hurdles with 9 year term.  

Whitewater, are your numbers for Wells for the Wells Fargo Advisors side (wirehouse) or the bank side broker?  The numbers I put down were for the bank side, I know the wirehouse side pays higher but offers no leads.

Cutacheck, I agree probably better opportunities than Merrill right now.

Hands down, bank side is the way to go.  Just reading the offer RR Editor said in this topic sounds like the worst deal nyone would accept. 

Has anyone else from WFA heard that Wells is going to take the ISG brokers out of the bank branches and put them in separate offices?  I heard this and was told that they aren't going into PCG branches, but they are going to set up other offices for them.  This seems a little strange to me....  Anyone else have any insight into this?

I know in the larger metro areas they have private bank hubs where they move the larger bank producers around 1 million plus.  It is similar to a wirehouse setting. 

you have to be out of your mind to do that Merrill deal.

Wells offered me 90% upfront, 50% backend if I hit my numbers, grid of 35% for 12 months then grid. the payout more than anything scared me away.

Alby,  with 90% upfront I would assume you are a pretty strong producer.  Did u go back to the manager and tell him you want at least 40% the first year.  I can't imagine any manager screwing himself out of a new recruit because of payout.

This is probably a great deal for ML, but horrible for a broker.  Anyone who thinks deffered comp is attractive needs to talk to a ML broker who lost all of his deffered comp for the past 20 yrs becasue there stock is worth a tenth of what they received.  14 yrs is almost a career, and I know brokers who have left to go to 3 different firms in less than 14yrs.  In our business we dont own our clients, we rent them, and firms don't own brokers, they rent us.  They clearly are trying to own us and it will never happen.  No matter how hard they try to make a deal inticing nothing works better than the upfront.  Like all of my wealthy clients who are business owners, they build a business, build revenue, and sell it. No business owner would accpet a deal where they get money up front and the buysers say that if the company is still viable in 14yrs we will give you more money.  Who would aggree to that.   

I do the same thing.  I build my client base and sell it to the best bidder.  My loyalty is to my family, not firms or clients.  The reason 14yr deffered comp deal will never work is because you never know what can happen.  I may have to put 2 kids in colleg, or there could be a family illness, have a new child, all things that in the future could lead me to move firms.  If I got 500k up front and 500k in deffered, well if MSSB is going to offer me 500k to leave than why wait 14yrs. 

When people leave for a firm and get money, that is security, no matter what.  If you look around, it is so hard to save money these days, people are crazy to stay with a firm fr so long.   

RR Editor,  I am in the process of deciding whether to leave my firm or not.  I would love to hear your opinion as to what you would do if you were in my situation.  PM me because if i disclose to you my details, someone in my region will know exactly who I am because of my uniquie details.

CUTA,

I may go back to them on that basis, the point is the ISG grid is brutal under 300k. I currently do 500 +/-, hard to make up a lost 100-220k in gross

ALBY,

Most people who are dciding to leave always have that same concern.   Quite honestly, if you are very good at sales and closing you making up 100-200k in gross over the next 2-3 years is nothing comapred to what you will build in the long run.  You will look bakc and laugh at the fact that you even had that concern, and hopefull give the same advice to another young rising start whose trying to make it in the biz.  Rememebr you will also have 400k + in the bank.  Your next question should be, given the amount of gross I am doing now and all my current monthly living expenses, how long will it take me to save 400k.  Now u are really thinking. 

Wells Fargo Finet recruiter saying you can have your indy office with up to 60% of trailing (before grid) up front with 5 year contract. Additional 35% bonus if more than 40% of biz is fee based. 10% bonus if you move over 70% of existing book. 90% payout. Would take reps with 300 in current production.

Anyone doing business with them or familiar with their 1099 work arrangement? You have your own office, and make a five year commitment, and get 100% up front, is this a forgivable loan and how does that work for restrictions and taxes? You can renegotiate or move after 5 years.

Do they really send you business?  C'mon, it's not Christmas yet. What is the catch?

You are talking about FINET their independent side which they do not provide leads to.  They also don't provide leads for PCG.  They only provide leads to ISG. (Bank Channel)

There is a grid with FINET.  You get the 90% payout on managed products and fee if you do over a certain amt each month which I think is around 20k or so.  If you are under that any month you get a little bit lower payout.

If thats the case, than i would love to here from that recruiter or someone from Wells.  I would seriously consider going independant. 

LA BROKER, my numbers were for the wirehouse/PCG side.  You are correct the PCG side does not get feed leads.

PCG does get feed leads...It is called us the brokers giving our small accounts to the client service team.  What a frikkin joke.  Ben was rollin in the grave when he heard about that happening.

It did wind up being a good way of getting rid of some small dumba$$ clients with only 2k in the IRA.  But I will never give the CST another account even if it means taking it out to the parking lot with my manager.

I would consider going indie. It is a crap shoot on whether you will get leads, and I wouldn't wait around for it. I know plenty of losers...I mean brokers....who inherited their books, but I think those days are over.

[quote=cutacheck]

ALBY,

Most people who are dciding to leave always have that same concern.   Quite honestly, if you are very good at sales and closing you making up 100-200k in gross over the next 2-3 years is nothing comapred to what you will build in the long run.  You will look bakc and laugh at the fact that you even had that concern, and hopefull give the same advice to another young rising start whose trying to make it in the biz.  Rememebr you will also have 400k + in the bank.  Your next question should be, given the amount of gross I am doing now and all my current monthly living expenses, how long will it take me to save 400k.  Now u are really thinking. 

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You make some good points, but I sure wouldn't look at the 400k in your example as savings.  At least, a good chunk of it.  It sounds like you've moved in the past, so the following is of no surprise to you, but I think it should be kept in mind by readers of your post.  After your transfer, there will be a decent amount of time to bring your book over, and generally, you won't bring it all.  And while growth may eventually happen, you are usually focused on the transition for 6 months to a year.  Even after that, most advisors move lets say, 70% of production. 

All the while, the 400k loan is being forgiven each paycheck, on a 6 year contract, that would be an additional "taxable income" of over $5,500 a month, thus a net drag of something like 2k per month on cash flow. 

The point is, one should be prepared for a serious cash flow impact post-move.  That 400k can get whittled down pretty heavily by the tax burden and overall reduced cash flow. 

For what its worth, when I ran the numbers, I determined it was better to make one move, and a permanent one.  I went RIA, doubled my payout, and figure I'll make back the foregone upfront bonus in about 4 years, and then have the gravy forever more, without having to go through the life altering event of leaving my BD again. 

Best of luck whichever path each of you shall choose. 

Great post, Fly. Thanks for the thoughtful analysis.

Flyonwall, I think one of the attractive things about the upfront check is the time value of money.  If you take your 400K and get a resonable rate of return of 5% over 6 years you earn 120K, that pays a good portion of the taxes from the check.  Also, many FA's build up debt building their businesses and a check gives them the ability to pay that off sometimes at high interest rates.  I'm not saying Indy is not the best option, but for some a check can make sense. 

FINET 1099 QUESTION...

For each loan/ signing bonus you get the money upfront (if that is what is promised) and you get a 1099 for phantom income each year. Each month you get a schdule of what was paid down and what you owe.  At the end of the year you get a 1099 for net fees paid to your branch for production and another 1099 for portion of the note paid in that year.  It's a pretty good deal because unlike the wirehouse world your are a business owner.  You can legally implement tax stategies that benefit you and your practice to offset 1099 income...get a good accountant!

No leads but you do get a fair amount of call in questions.  I just happen to be the broker of the day every day.  I have picked up a 500K account this month for picking up the phone.  I use the WFA name. You also get alot of bank questions and mortgage questions. I refer them to the local.."store" to handle.  FINET is a pretty fair deal coming from PCG but I would also consider Raymond James and LPL.   FINET does not pay commisions on mortgages but does pay on asset back loans. If you are doing 400K and have alot of fee based business it's a great deal.  I hope this helps all. Good Luck.  My quote:  "Make a decision before it's made for you".  Bitching moaning and gossiping does not pay well...I tried it!