Changes at MS

ummm… thanks??? These are things we have all known for 2 months…

I like the changes so far.  Morale has improved.  How do you think Gorman will decide on branch closings and consolidation?  Profitability or proximity to other branches?  He has said over and over that there will be no more cuts, only natural attrition.  Do you buy into it? 

I've wondered about the office closings. Sure, closing an office or two, in a city with multiple offices is easy. What about closing an office with the nearest other office being 100 miles away? Do the brokers of the closed office commute? Work out of their home/car?

If it were me, I'd change firms.

if i were you, i wouldnt have posted such a stupid comment



Think in terms of common sense, if your branch is profitable and in an
area which produces good business, you will most likely be fine. 
If you are in an area which is not up to the new MS standards, it will
close.  Chances are, if they close your branch and the closest
branch is 100 miles away, you are
better off at another firm.  But if you were a profitable broker
(not talking about 250 in gross) they will keep you on and you can do
whatever you want.  I mean, they arent going to just close
branches and get rid of big producers, that would be ridiculous. 
If you truly are a good broker with a good book and a good business…a
top notch business, you will be fine.

[quote=MWD123]I like the changes so far.  Morale has improved.   [/quote]

NO! NO! NO! NO!

What are you talking about? Kristen French has at least a dozen more scare articles lined up where she quotes recruiters (now, they wouldn't have an agenda, would they? ) and a college professor (wtf?) to tell the tale of how awful it is at MS and how everyone is scared to death, jumping ship and shorting the shares of the company stock. 

Seriously, did someone from MS piss in her Weaties? 

Diplomaticos:if i were you, i wouldnt have posted such a stupid comment

-------------------------------------

Hey DIP, it wasn't a comment, it was a question. No comprende ENGLISH?

Maybe, you can enlighten me, since my QUESTION (not comment) was so far below your "presumed" level of intelligence. Have you witnessed the closing of a brokerage office housing multiple brokers, with no other office within a reasonable driving distance? Did a few. most, or all the brokers transfer to the new office? Did the firm enforce their noncompete clause against those brokers who left? Did the brokers who stayed have to work out of their home/car most of the time?

Next time I post, I'll precede any question with the word: "QUESTION" and then highlight the question mark "?", so there's no mistaking it for a question. Comprende? 

Oh, and if you have no personal experience with the situations posed in the above questions, I suggest you think FIRST before posting your STUPID comments.

you must do so much gross to talk to someone that way.



"If it were me, I’d change firms."



I am sorry, I didnt think that was a question, usually when someone
puts a period at the end of a sentence it is a comment.  I dont
know.  The way you talk, you must be a really really really big
producing broker.

what do you guys see as far as MS taking on new trainees?

[quote=SethDavis]what do you guys see as far as MS taking on new trainees?[/quote]

Yes, they are hiring a “limited number” of trainees.

But they’re also having a difficult time retaining the good ones.

[quote=JCadieux] [quote=SethDavis]what do you guys see as far as MS taking on new trainees?[/quote]

Yes, they are hiring a "limited number" of trainees.

But they're also having a difficult time retaining the good ones.
[/quote]

You mean a hard time keeping the successful trainees onboard? What do you base that on?

yes, and do either of you feel that MS will be actively recruiting now or in the near future?

[quote=SethDavis]yes, and do either of you feel that MS will be actively recruiting now or in the near future?[/quote]

They're actively recruiting producers, but there will be very few trainee slots to be filled, however.

…MORE CUTS YESTERDAY…

[quote=frumhere]...MORE CUTS YESTERDAY...[/quote]

I must have missed them, what sort?

They've been bringing over some big teams recently.  Check who's moving.  MS is paying big bucks and fixing many of the issues they had previously.  No one's perfect, but it's a step in the right direction.

Gorman will have them on the recruiting warpath.

more regional positions

[quote=frumhere]

more regional positions

[/quote]

Ahh, the dust settling from the cuts in regions and districts....

[quote=mikebutler222]

[quote=JCadieux]

Yes, they are hiring a “limited number” of trainees.

But they’re also having a difficult time retaining the good ones.
[/quote]

You mean a hard time keeping the successful trainees onboard? What do you base that on?

Of the past 6 hires into our training program, 5 have been from MS here in town. And 4 of them are actually good and will probably make it…

[quote=JCadieux]

[quote=mikebutler222]

[quote=JCadieux]

Yes, they are hiring a “limited number” of trainees.

But they’re also having a difficult time retaining the good ones.
[/quote]

You mean a hard time keeping the successful trainees onboard? What do you base that on?

[quote=JCadieux] [quote=mikebutler222]

[quote=JCadieux]

Yes, they are hiring a "limited number" of trainees.

But they're also having a difficult time retaining the good ones.
[/quote]

You mean a hard time keeping the successful trainees onboard? What do you base that on?

[/quote]

Successful trainees keep calling and asking me to help them find better jobs.
[/quote]

They're "success", but they want a "better job"? You mean in a bank channel so they don't have to build a book? What are their criticisms that they want "better"?

Having said that, just what are the odds that a recruiter doesn't have an agenda when talking to brokers about what's "better" elsewhere...

[quote=blarmston]Of the past 6 hires into our training program, 5 have been from MS here in town. And 4 of them are actually good and will probably make it...[/quote]

You hire people from other firms to enter your training program? Is it something tracked for people who already have their licenses or is it back to square one?

When we hire people from other firms if they don't already have a serious established book they go through a "transition program" to learn about firm specific products and procedures. Is that the sort of thing you're talking about? Either way, they're not called trainees and it isn't called a traingin program.

Been lurking around for a while. MikeButler222 seems to have a good grasp on the industry and MS in particular.

And yes recruiters have an ajenda.

I recruit first and second quentile brokers for Smith Barney nationally.

Actually I am surprised this board allows blatent self serving comments.

Smith Barney unlike Merrill Lynch refuses to pay recruiters for trainees, I can not add much to new brokers comments or concerns.

[quote=Biasedrecruiter]

Been lurking around for a while. MikeButler222 seems to have a good grasp on the industry and MS in particular. 

[/quote]

The check is in the mail 

Is anyone excited about the outlook of this business?

Is anyone excited about the outlook of this business?

ABSOLUTELY.

MB222- it depends on their tenure. We have had MS guys come right in and start producing based on LOS and we have others who enter our training program....

[quote=fritz]Is anyone excited about the outlook of this business?[/quote]

Oh yes

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=JCadieux] [quote=mikebutler222]

[/quote]

Successful trainees keep calling and asking me to help them find better jobs.
[/quote]

They're "success", but they want a "better job"? You mean in a bank channel so they don't have to build a book? What are their criticisms that they want "better"?

Having said that, just what are the odds that a recruiter doesn't have an agenda when talking to brokers about what's "better" elsewhere...

for the life of me, i still don’w know why anyone would use a recruiter.  if someone is doing 250k in 4ys los, they could just call the branch themselves.  why the need for the middleman?

[quote=frumhere]for the life of me, i still don'w know why anyone would use a recruiter.  if someone is doing 250k in 4ys los, they could just call the branch themselves.  why the need for the middleman?[/quote]

I can hear the record needle scratch across the record. 

Trust me, I am not trying to be a jerk.  I just don’t know why to ever use one.  Any recruiting is a courtship process.  We are all in sales and therefore would/could/should ask enough questions before moving to get a feel for the manager.  Furthermore, most of us started as trainees with 0AUM and took the job and it did not matter is the guy was a raving lunatic.

I agree, frum.  If you're a first quintile producer at a wire and the other BMs in the area don't know who you are, something is wrong with that picture. 

The fact of the matter is that any rep can simply pick up the phone and call across the street to Merrill, UBS, whoever - and make the jump and negotiate the same deal themselves for the most part.  There are a few situations where a recruiter may help, but it's a small percentage of the time (usually 2nd and 3rd quintile for wires). 

I do most of my work in moving OSJ groups to one specific independent BD that would be considered small to mid-sized.  Great story, great benefits for reps that want to make that jump.  At MS, you're going to know what is going on (generally) at ML, SB, etc. 

…thanks…

Something goes round and round in my head; "a fool who represents himself"

No, you will not get the same deal if you pick up the phone yourself, unless you have a previous relationship with the BM. Some BM do not even know what they can do within their own firm.

[quote=Biasedrecruiter]

Been lurking around for a while. MikeButler222 seems to have a good grasp on the industry and MS in particular.

And yes recruiters have an ajenda.

I recruit first and second quentile brokers for Smith Barney nationally.

Actually I am surprised this board allows blatent self serving comments.

Smith Barney unlike Merrill Lynch refuses to pay recruiters for trainees, I can not add much to new brokers comments or concerns.

frum--I sorta see your point, but isn't that like saying, "why should any investor use a broker/advisor to pick a mutual fund for him?  You could just use Morningstar or ______ to learn all you need to know." 

If ALL you do ALL day is talk about deals, firms, offices, moving, etc., it stands to reason you'd know more than the amateur, which in this case is you and me.  And if the cost doesn't come out of your pocket, why WOULDN'T you use a recruiter?

The bottom line is this - a recruiter who thinks that reps can’t do this without them is a fool.  I am here to assist and educate on opportunities.  Plain and simple.  Maybe I work with better BMs or something, but I have never had to “coach” them on what the FA wants the deal to look like or how to approach that subject.  They are usually smart enough to figure that out on their own and partner in with corporate when appropriate.  The others have no idea what the hell they’re doing if they don’t know to think outside the box to land a producer that’s the right fit for the company.

[quote=Cowboy93]

If ALL you do ALL day is talk about deals, firms, offices, moving, etc., it stands to reason you'd know more than the amateur, which in this case is you and me.  And if the cost doesn't come out of your pocket, why WOULDN'T you use a recruiter?

Joedabrker: You would probably like to swap tax returns with me.

well, if either of you recruiters can place me (a noob) in a local MS or AGE branch, please do!

[quote=JCadieux] [quote=mikebutler222][quote=JCadieux] [quote=mikebutler222] <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

You mean a hard time keeping the successful trainees onboard? What do you base that on?

[/quote]

Successful trainees keep calling and asking me to help them find better jobs.
[/quote]

They're "success", but they want a "better job"? You mean in a bank channel so they don't have to build a book? What are their criticisms that they want "better"?

Having said that, just what are the odds that a recruiter doesn't have an agenda when talking to brokers about what's "better" elsewhere...<?:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" />

[/quote]

I'd have to check my records, but I'm pretty sure 100% of our placements out of MS last year went into other wirehouses.  My practice is over 90% wirehouse, and probably higher than that at the trainee/transition level.  These successful trainees are leaving Morgan for the same reasons as other successful brokers:  Better support and less chaos.

[/quote]

Oh spare me. People who know anything about the biz know going from one wirehouse to another won't get you "better support and less chaos". People leave for one of three reasons; 1) A CHECK 2) Personal issues with management 3) They leave voluntarily before they leave INvoluntarily. There's a fourth, far less common, personal reasons, but that usually involves having to relocate for family reasons.

[quote=JCadieux]

My point is that the number of calls from Morgan Stanley FAs at all levels has skyrocketed in the past year. [/quote]

Between people trying to take advantage of the press coverage, those trying to avoid the cuts from last Summer and the rare old-time DW guy scared to death of being anything other than a stock-of-the-day jockey, I don’t doubt it. Then again, that ship has sailed.

I know two guys that jumped last Summer, when Mack (who, btw, was welcomed back by brokers) returned. Both said it was for the check and the press coverage gave them the “cover” they needed with clients as a reason. One also held a long simmering issue with a particular manager (not a BOM) and this made it all easier.

[quote=JCadieux]

But headhunters in this industry have a big incentive  to help you find a firm where you'll be successful and happy.  We don't get paid unless you place AND STAY for at least six months. 


[/quote]

ROFLMAO, SIX MONTHS? How often does someone not last six months? I’m sorry, pal, and I admire your willingness to speak up, but I have to say that’s all a steamy pile of  Tyco. You guys cash that check and never look back.

I get call after call from you guys each with the same patter, talking about how everyone tells them how horrible it is at my current firm, how it’s going to be sold, how there will be another MASSIVE round of cuts, etc.,  and how Nirvana waits right around the corner at the local UBS/SB/ML/Wachovia Office where THEY really know how to take care of brokers. It’s such a scam. It doesn’t even seem to matter if THOSE guys are currently in the paper over some scandal or another, they’re still better than sliced bread.

There will be some differences among the wires - individual branch culture, some minor tech advantages (or disadvantages).  Payouts will be fairly similar (with the exception of Wach.'s unique plan).  Different reps will respond differently to them.  ML is a great firm, but not right for everyone - same with SB, UBS, etc.

Other than that, it's same s#!t different day. 

[quote=SethDavis]well, if either of you recruiters can place me (a noob) in a local MS or AGE branch, please do![/quote]

When we talk about recruiting transitions/trainees, we’re usually talking about people with experience but no book to move.  Branch managers pay us to find trainees with good track records and an above-average shot at making it.  I don’t know about the other recruiters here, but my firm usually don’t work with candidates that don’t already have a Series 7 and some related experience.

As a true beginner you’re probably better off cold calling your local BMs and making a pitch directly.  Build a business plan before you call and make it part of your pitch.  It’s a long shot, but they’ll respect you for having the guts to call.  If your business plan is solid, then you’ve got a shot.

This is especially true in the case of AGE, since they don’t work with multi-firm headhunters like us.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[quote=Biasedrecruiter]Joedabrker: You would probably like to swap tax returns with me.[/quote]

Maybe.

I rather doubt it.

You know what they say about those who assume?

joe - looks like someone has challenged you to a my @#$% is bigger than your @#$% contest. 

Is anyone else reminded of an ambulance chasing attorney when you read posts by BrokerRecruit or JCadeiux? Maybe it is just me… wait… I hear sirens.

just you greenblob, just you

Go back and read my posts, Kool-Aid chugger.  When have I solicited someone on the board?  Do I have my contact info posted at the bottom of my posts or in my profile? 

Read some of my last posts, especially on this board.  When have I told someone they need a recruiter?

Spend more time working on your reading comprehension and less door-knocking, smart guy.

[quote=BrokerRecruit]

Do I have my contact info posted at the bottom of my posts or in my profile? 

Read some of my last posts, especially on this board.  When have I told someone they need a recruiter?

JCadieux-

I have no problem with you having your info on the board and my comments were by no means an attack on you.  Simply a shot back at Incredible Hulk regarding his assumptive comments regarding my motives in being a contributor to the forum.

Hulk is an idiot... Another new poster running onto this forum posting ridiculous comments without knowing cr$p about the business. Personally, I welcome BR and Jcad's comments, as it is always interesting to gain a greater feel for the marketplace....

[quote=Incredible Hulk]Is anyone else reminded of an ambulance chasing attorney when you read posts by BrokerRecruit or JCadeiux? Maybe it is just me... wait... I hear sirens.[/quote]

Are you silly?  I think most of us (that have any sense) appreciate the way BrokerRecruit, JCadeiux, and rrbdlawyer (Bill Singer) interact on this board.  They answer our questions (within reason), give us insight from their field of expertese, and their input may keep us from making mistakes in the future.

My hat's off to them.

Awwww, thanks guys! 

[quote=exEJIR]

Are you silly?  I think most of us (that have any sense) appreciate the way BrokerRecruit, JCadeiux, and rrbdlawyer (Bill Singer) interact on this board.  They answer our questions (within reason), give us insight from their field of expertese, and their input may keep us from making mistakes in the future.

My hat's off to them.

[quote=JCadieux] [quote=exEJIR]

Are you silly?  I think most of us (that have any sense) appreciate the way BrokerRecruit, JCadeiux, and rrbdlawyer (Bill Singer) interact on this board.  They answer our questions (within reason), give us insight from their field of expertese, and their input may keep us from making mistakes in the future.

My hat's off to them.

[/quote]

For eleventy kabillion dollars?

Thanks for the compliments, y'all.   Your checks are in the mail.
[/quote]

[quote=blarmston]

Hulk is an idiot... Another new poster running onto this forum posting ridiculous comments without knowing cr$p about the business. Personally, I welcome BR and Jcad's comments, as it is always interesting to gain a greater feel for the marketplace....

[/quote]

ditto.  high fives for blarm!

[quote=BrokerRecruit]

joe - looks like someone has challenged you to a my @#$% is bigger than your @#$% contest. 

[/quote]

Sadly my @#$% really isn't that impressive.  I didn't score so well in the genetic lottery on that front.

My 'tax return' as he puts it, is just fine.  I'm completely happy with it.  It's private and don't share it with anyone but my spouse.  But he had to open that door a crack and I couldn't let it pass without comment.  Having said that, I'm secure enough at my own success in life that I'm not taking the bait to carry this any further.

I figured you wouldn’t.  I think the editors (or whoever oversees this forum) should enlist a very thorough screening process for new members.

[quote=BrokerRecruit]I figured you wouldn’t.  I think the editors (or whoever oversees this forum) should enlist a very thorough screening process for new members.[/quote]

Nah, characters like Hulk and Big Easy and CPAFP add color.  The moderators have at times imposed censorship and I didn’t like it at all.  I like the idea that folks can speak their minds.

And whom may I ask would you allow to make comments here?

It was made in jest - that's all.  Opinions are like @$$holes - everyone has one and everyone should feel free to speak it. 

I look at old Putsy when he was on this board.  A lot of what he said was crap, but it instigated a lot of debate and good feedback from others.

joe - did you like the number eleventy kabillion dollars?

Great:;

Was afraid of the background check

And English major Joe. I am felmale. You referred to me as male.

You know what you and they say about ass uming?

Opinions are like @$$holes - everyone has one and everyone should feel free to speak it. 

-------------------

I thought it was, "...everyone has one and they all stink."  Oh, never mind, that was for excuses, not opinions.

Hi all,



    I’m new to the forum. I couldn’t find any other posts really addressing

this topic, but if I missed them, I apologize.



    I’ve just had a 2nd round interview for the position of Wealth

Managment Analyst at MS. I understand what the job function is, but I still

have a few questions that I’m hoping someone with any MS experience, or

specifically WMA experience, could answer.



1) Unlike other BB firms, MS doesn’t hire analysts for Private Wealth

Management, only associates. With the corporate changes at MS, is the

WMA position turning into the equivalent of a PWM analyst at other firms

(as far as compensation, competition, and prestige)?



2) In the geographic area that I’ll be working, a registered 1st year

financial sales assistant earns a base salary of roughly 40K. A financial

analyst earns a base salary of roughly 55K. This is the 75th percentile,

which i’m assuming MS is a part of. Since WMA seems to be a

combination of the 2 jobs, what pay can I expect? Also, this is a 1 year

position, what type of signing bonus and/or end of year performance

bonus is there?



3) This is my first corporate job. I know it’s a bad idea to bring up salary

before an offer is discussed. When is an appropriate time? This is a job

that I definitely want, but it will be very hard to say yes if the salary is in

the high 30’s/low 40’s. The cost of living here is extremely high, and the

hours for this job are much longer than those of a typical rookie broker.

(They said 60 hrs/week is likely for the first year). I think this justifies a

salary closer to that of the financial analyst’s, but I don’t want to ruin my

chances by fighting for more $$$.



Any and all insight would be appreciated.



Thanks.

The WMA position has nothing to do with PWM, in terms of job function or prestige. WMA is a branch position in, gasp, plain-old retail. You will probably be able to make $50,000 if you negotiate properly. You will help Morgan Stanley’s “wealth advisors” with marketing and presentations (materials).

Rookie brokers, including me, work much more than 60 hours a week. That is a disrespectful comment.

[quote=Biasedrecruiter]

Great:;

Was afraid of the background check

And English major Joe. I am felmale. You referred to me as male.

You know what you and they say about ass uming?

Nearly all trainees have been failing, so the WMA position was created to make registered assistants that may some day become advisors. It is not a hot advisor training program. It is not a advisor training program!

ugh… this job gets worse and worse the more I hear about it. Is there any

upside to it?

The upside for the few that really make it is $400-$800k a year doing something that is like nothing else on earth.

"Like nothing else on earth", Well said.

Playing 3B for the New Yankees is..."like nothing else on earth".  With the upside to make the $10-$25 Million.

The fact of the matter my friend is that MS is redifining itself as we speak.  Retail, PWM, Asset Management, the whole comapny.  I think the only certain thing is that John Mack will take home a nice check this year.  After that all bets are off.  You can make money anywhere, you can be happy or miserable anywhere, and you can work as long and/or as hard as you want...even if you're a "Rookie Broker".  The great thing about this country is we have choices.

Another thing MS brokers can count on is paying for Purcell’s personal secretary for life at $1.9 Million.

[quote=BrokerRecruit]

Go back and read my posts, Kool-Aid chugger. When have I solicited someone on the board? Do I have my contact info posted at the bottom of my posts or in my profile?

Read some of my last posts, especially on this board. When have I told someone they need a recruiter?

Spend more time working on your reading comprehension and less door-knocking, smart guy.

Proof, please?