Any update on that LP offering?

geezus did he PAY someone to take that picture?

Nothing like being able to slide a quarter between one’s teeth sideways.  Ouch!

“What, me worry?”

Damn, Bachmann has a brother???

I never had anything against Jones before but now things have changed after seeing that…

Stop saying bad things about my Mom! It’s not her fault that she’s a little unattractive.

EX, funny timing. I had a deposit in my account today for the LP I did not get, $18,700. Yes, it is taxable but, I put up no cash for it. I like that IRR

not a bad deal!!!

[quote=Guest1]EX, funny timing. I had a deposit in my account today for the LP I did not get, $18,700. Yes, it is taxable but, I put up no cash for it. I like that IRR[/quote]

If you're excited about getting paid part of what you should be getting every month at the end of the year, then more power to ya.  Kind of reminds me of when my old bank lowered our grid and put in a "bonus program".

[quote=Guest1]EX, funny timing. I had a deposit in my account today for the LP I did not get, $18,700. Yes, it is taxable but, I put up no cash for it. I like that IRR[/quote]

Congrats Guest.  You should send the home office a thank you note for returning some of your hard earned money.

Since we are at the start of tax season I cant help but think these Jones IR's bragging about LP and bonuses are a little like those people who celebrate their tax refund.   It's like they think they are getting some kind of free gift,  when we all know they really just overpaid to begin with.

Gee EX, that should put my payout right up to the 53-54% after expenses. let’s see, profit sharing excess next week, bonus the week after that and NO I don’t get a tax refund. Likely pay more than you net though. I really doubt you are there on payout. INDY, your grid comment makes no sense at all. Care to try again?

53%?? That seems very high…43%?

Guest1…what is your profitability for the year on the P&L? How much overhead allocation? What did you get in bonuses?



(not jabs-real questions)



Thanks



CIB

[quote=Indyone]

[quote=Guest1]EX, funny timing. I had a deposit in my account today for the LP I did not get, $18,700. Yes, it is taxable but, I put up no cash for it. I like that IRR[/quote]

If you're excited about getting paid part of what you should be getting every month at the end of the year, then more power to ya.  Kind of reminds me of when my old bank lowered our grid and put in a "bonus program".

[/quote]

dude they just don't get it, do they?

CIB, profit was 380, don’t know bonuses offhand except for the third one that pays next week, 43k. Allocations I will look tommrw.

[quote=exdrone]

Since we are at the start of tax season I cant help but think these Jones IR's bragging about LP and bonuses are a little like those people who celebrate their tax refund.   It's like they think they are getting some kind of free gift,  when we all know they really just overpaid to begin with.

[/quote]

Guest,

On Wed LPL will deposit 13k into my bank acct.  Thats my 2 week net on a gross of about 15.  My first dep for Feb was 10k on a gross of about 12k. My overhead is about 4700/mo.  That makes my net  before taxes roughly 61%.  You may pay more in taxes than I net, buy you may have a little more time in the bus than my 6yrs also.

I guess we can start the pissing contest again...

[quote=Guest1]INDY, your grid comment makes no sense at all. Care to try again?[/quote]

OK...I'll try to keep the words at no more than six letters and two syllables each...

EDJ is just paying you part (a bit over half) of what you earn.  This "bonus" means they are paying a little more of YOUR gross back to YOU (and they keep the rest.)

That's my last attempt at explaining the obvious to you.  If you still don't get it, I'm sure you'll continue to be happy right where you are.

There's nothing limited about my partnership of one.

[quote=exdrone]Guest,

On Wed LPL will deposit 13k into my bank acct.  Thats my 2 week net on a gross of about 15.  My first dep for Feb was 10k on a gross of about 12k. My overhead is about 4700/mo.  That makes my net  before taxes roughly 61%.  You may pay more in taxes than I net, buy you may have a little more time in the bus than my 6yrs also.

I guess we can start the pissing contest again...[/quote]

I'm getting a higher net, ex...(27K gross-4K(LPL)-4.7K(OH)=67.7%...which is in line with my experience thus far also.  As production moves up, I expect that this percentage will be well above 70%.

You ever wonder why firms pay things like LP and stock options to advisors or in Jones' case IRs (that was for you player)?  It tends to happen when you become more valuable to them than they are to you.  The firm begins to realize that hey, we better make sure we do some things to keep this guy around as he brings us an awful lot of money.  I always view this in terms of leverage - am I leveraging my b/d or my b/d leveraging me?  For $.60 on the dollar I earn, I get what?  Compared to $.10 on the dollar I get what?  All things being equal I get the same at a minimum, but I own my business, control my exit strategy, have the ability to adjust to the needs of my client v forcing my clients to fit my model, have tremendous tax benefits as a business owner and have complete control to manage it. 
Better yet, I don't have to stay on the treadmill of adding more clients, more new money to avoid starting from zero every month. 

Do I want to be an employee or an owner????? hmmmmm?

Just curious G1, that 53% net is that after bonus to your BOA, paying 1/2 your postage, phone, marketing expenses, etc?  I believe you said it was but just wanted to make sure.

Ex, Indy, and Csm,

What is your overhead in terms of rent and assistant pay per mo?  What is your net/net percentage after that? 

My OH is about $3,800, and my net-net is in the mid to upper 60's.  Rent is $400/month for an office in an accounting firm and my part of the shared assistant averages about $1,500/month.

Indy, 

That would be low Im guessing.  From my research Im finding its hard to net/net 60% unless you have a situation like yours.  I'd like someone to show me a 60% or higher net/net when they are paying an experienced asst about $3200/mo and rent $1600/mo.  I would think thats about avg for a 10 year +.

Anyone ?

Jonzed,

My full time admin costs me 2900/mo(total cost with payroll taxes etc. processed by my cpa) with me paying 100% of health ins for her. 1000 for rent, 200 phone and internet ,50 for postage and FEDEX, 85 for contact manager(Salesforce.com @ 995/year= roughly 85/mo.) That gets me to about 4200 and the remainder is misc stuff like toner, paper, coffee, efax...

I am netting in the range of 68% as well.  A lot of this JZ depends on your business model and the way you manage your practice which was kind of my point.  Under your model, and I don't mean this to sound degrading, you pay your b/d $.60 for every dollar you earn I pay $.10 for every dollar.  In terms of what each of us gets from our b/d is arguably the same for the most part.  However, you are giving them 60% for them basically to manage your margins and to put that money in areas that may or may not make a difference to you locally.  I take the 90% and manage my own margins and spend it in areas that do affect my business locally.  So even if I net 53% or 40% where I lose the other % on expenses, I am determining where it goes and how to best allocate that.  This is the most significant difference between indy and employee.  Who do you want to manage your margins - you or your b/d?  If you want the b/d to do it stay an employee but if you believe you can do it better; indy makes more sense.

Jonzed, my overhead IS low, but that is by design in my independent start-up.  As I grow assets, my overhead will undoubtably grow also.  Let's say we use your numbers and tack on other overhead to bring the totals to say, $10,000/month, and let's say your production has grown to $50,000/month.  If we knock off 15% for your indy B/D, that brings you down to $42,500.  after $10,000 overhead, you are netting $32,500, or 65%.  If you double that production and add another $3,200 assistant, your net goes to 71.8%.  When I was doing due diligence, I spoke with a guy who was netting just under 80%.

To be honest, I don't see my overhead getting to $10,000/month, even if I reach $50,000/month.  If anything, I could see some of it dropping.  When I get to a production level that satisfies me, I'll most likely cut my advertising and marketing efforts.  Why do a seminar when you have all the clients you can adequately service?  Whatever the net number is, I'm confident that it will be far higher than it was at my former employer, but that wasn't even my primary reason for leaving.  Being in control of my business and not having to deal with corporate politics was my primary motivator.  I saw a survey when I was doing my due diligence that said only 26% or independent reps went independent primarily for the higher payout.

Now, I'll shut up and let the other guys answer...

Csm,

I understand what you're saying, but 2 things I can't change are my asst pay lower (unless I fire her and get a new one) and rent.  With that in mind, the most optimistic payout I can get to net/net is 56%. That is with RJ or LPL.  Believe me, I've turned this thing upside down shaken it up and then did it again.  The real question for a vet IR is: Do you think its worth the months of aggrevation going through this for about 12% higher payout.  I'm still trying to decide myself. 

The reason I am leaning to a yes is because: 

Ownership of book, more products (tons more which means could mean making more $), 1099 vs W-2, my own retirement plan, and other things Im not thinking of right now.

How do you account for the tax bene's of being 1099 in terms of $, has anybody got that figured out yet vs W-2?

Jonezd,

January numbers: Gross: $32,519, Net: $26,033 (80%)

My expenses for the month were $5,030.  There is another broker that I share overhead with so I spend about 5k/mo each month.  January net/net came to 65%.  I, too, was at Jones and for years I didn't believe the numbers could be true.  I left 13 months ago for RJFS and the payout has actually been higher than I expected.

I think the indy firms purposely show you conservatively what they think your payout numbers will be to some extent. 

Never having done FICA or payroll before, what program or service do you all use for this?

Jz

I started with Paychex but quickly realized that it wasn’t cost efficient (having just one employee).  My CPA handles it now for about half the cost of Paychex.

I use Quickbooks for all my checkwriting, including payroll.  Your CPA can help you set it up and it’s not expensive…$200 for the program and $200 for the annual tax table subscription.

[quote=Guest1]CIB, profit was 380, don't know bonuses offhand except for the third one that pays next week, 43k. Allocations I will look tommrw.[/quote]

Here's the math I'm struggling w/ myself...and I'm not getting bonuses or LP yet...

380k profit means AFTER "overhead allocations" Jones made 380k. I'm interested in the OA number because that should be enough to take care of STL and the GPs, etc. for at least you, and maybe a few newbies that aren't yet carrying their weight.

380k-129k bonuses-19k LP=232k. So AFTER the big OA number and everything they gave back, you still leave 232k! on the table.

I've tried to figure out how this is a good deal for the IR and really haven't been able to. Logically, shouldn't they give everything back to the IR after they cover "overhead"?

When I started to figure all of this out (by myself of course) I started to feel like my wife was cheating on me...

CIB

CIB,

I have suggested before that the GP's have the IR's paying for the firms growth through things like overhead allocation, inflated communications expenses(1400/mo) etc... Your numbers above reinforce that point perfectly.

[quote=Jonzed]

Csm,

I understand what you're saying, but 2 things I can't change are my asst pay lower (unless I fire her and get a new one) and rent.  With that in mind, the most optimistic payout I can get to net/net is 56%. That is with RJ or LPL.  Believe me, I've turned this thing upside down shaken it up and then did it again.  The real question for a vet IR is: Do you think its worth the months of aggrevation going through this for about 12% higher payout.  I'm still trying to decide myself. 

The reason I am leaning to a yes is because: 

Ownership of book, more products (tons more which means could mean making more $), 1099 vs W-2, my own retirement plan, and other things Im not thinking of right now.

How do you account for the tax bene's of being 1099 in terms of $, has anybody got that figured out yet vs W-2?

[/quote]

Dude it isn't about the payout, althought it is quite nice!

It isn't even about 'owning my book' so much, as depending upon what happens in the world it might not be so easy to sell.

It is, however, about FREEDOM....from policital b.s., and corporate imperatives pushed upon my by folks who have never been on the front lines.  Freedom to move on to greener pastures if my b/d doesn't fulfill their end of the bargain.

Some day, perhaps, you'll understand.  The water's great.  Dive in!

JDaB… couldn’t agree more.  Like I said, all things being equal I will take 40% or 53% payout and be totally free v 53% payout and being captive or have a model forced upon me.  In the end, that is what it’s all about in my mind.

CIB, here is the math. (numbers changed slightly to protect from the sleuths online)

gross 850,000

net 338,000

Bonus 129,000

P/S 9950

p/s excess 6160

483110/850000=56.8%

yes, subtract medical/out of pocket etc but I am still where I said I was. I did not include LP on which I have very little out of pocket expense on. LP for 2005 was over $40,000

 Oh yeah, I can not sell my book. Look around, neither can most of you.

I am done.

Guest,

Without your bonus, your payout is about 42%.  You have little control over the firms overall profitability so how can you compare your 56.8 to an independant 60%+ net.  If you average in the zero bonus years of the early 2000's how does your payout compare?  How did the GP's pay their bills when the firm was supposedly not profitable?

Look around neither can you?????

Guest 1 you got to stop believing everything they tell you from St. Louis.  On average there are 3 buyers for every seller.  One of the advisors I share space with has purchased 2 books w/i the last 6 years.  Another advisor I know a few miles away has done the same - it's more than doable.

Sonny,

You have a healthy skepticism that will serve you well regardless of your career direction (and political ideology).  That goodnight will probably materialize yet, but even when it does, do your thing and continue to refrain from the Kool-Aid.  I'd hate to see you turn into a BF or BPD clone...tjc is a much better example to follow.

indy

[quote=Guest1]CIB, here is the math. (numbers changed slightly to protect from the sleuths online)

gross 850,000

net 338,000

Bonus 129,000

P/S 9950

p/s excess 6160

483110/850000=56.8%

yes, subtract medical/out of pocket etc but I am still where I said I was. I did not include LP on which I have very little out of pocket expense on. LP for 2005 was over $40,000

 Oh yeah, I can not sell my book. Look around, neither can most of you.

I am done.[/quote]

So, how's it feel to leave $100,000+ on the table every year?

...and yes I can sell my book...but I'm in no hurry...I'm young and having fun...

[quote=SonnyClips]Man I keep getting told I have a Goodknight and it has now been four months and it has not materialized. I hit the numbers that I was told had to be hit yet they still leave me out of the loop. It is as if after training and the can sell date any semblence of order just disappears. I am less than pleased with these developments. I wish I could have made my continuing with EDJ contingent on this so I could leave now.

If the lp is as nonchalant as this Goodknight has been good luck. I tend to think they forget they are fcuking with your money.[/quote]

Sorry to hear you're having to put up with that B.S.  It's not just EJ my friend I had similar experiences at wires with unkept promises and changing standards.   It's ultimately all about what benefits them.

Keep your head down and keep working.  Best you can do is continue to build your pipeline and relationships in order to benefit you long term, and as well keep your profile good with the firm.  Easier said than done, I know.

Hang in there.

[quote=Guest1]

CIB, here is the math. (numbers changed slightly to protect from the sleuths online)

gross 850,000

net 338,000

Bonus 129,000

P/S 9950

p/s excess 6160

483110/850000=56.8%

yes, subtract medical/out of pocket etc but I am still where I said I was. I did not include LP on which I have very little out of pocket expense on. LP for 2005 was over $40,000

 Oh yeah, I can not sell my book. Look around, neither can most of you.

I am done.

[/quote]

Guest1...thanks for baring your soul. I worked from the "profit" number, though, because the profit sharing was expensed against you there. If you look at it from the OWNER's (GPs) side, it really seems they are getting a better deal than you (us). BTW, I've never considered selling the book an advantage to being Indy, it's more so the extra cash and freedom/control you get along the way.

"another point of view"..."I thank the writer"

CIB

Just got the copy of my old regions newsletter that they keep sending me for some reason.  It just happens to have an update on the LP offering and addresses the new GP thing.

New Plans for LP Offering and GP Ownership in 2006.

The financial-services industry continues to wait for clear requirements regarding revenue sharing, service fees, and other revenues related to mutual funds.  For Edward Jones, a clearer picture will allow the firm to estimate the impact of the requirements on future operations and the resulting effect on partnership and limited partnership offerings....

...If the industry requirements are favorable for proceeding, the offering will be made.  If not, then a new LP bonus pool will be created that will include those who accepted the 2003 offer as well as those added in 2006.  While it's speculative to estimate when an offer may be made, the goal is for the second half of the year....

...In addition, changes to general partner ownership were announced in December.  General Partnership capital was transfered from existing and retiring partners to those whose ownership should increase due to increased responsibilities and to others who were invited to become general partners for the first time.  Unlike a limited partnership offering, transferring GP capital from one person to another is not a securities offering because no new capital is raised.

Why did they explain that new GP ownership is not a securities offering?  I left some parts out of the full article but nothing added clarity to this question.  Am I reading too much into this, or is this Jones' subtle way of saying that they can't raise new capital?  What will come of a firm with pending litigation with possibly disastrous results, that can't raise capital?

EX, the partnership only has 100 pieces that = 100%. The firm can not offer more than 100% thus no new offerings of GP, they only trade hands. The LP is a security offering. They could raise as much as they wanted too with a new LP offering. IRs are still buying.

 Yes maybe IRs are still buying but you cant get a law firm to give a legal opinion on the lp offering that states its a good investment with all the pending litigation. Wake up!!!

[quote=FREE] Yes maybe IRs are still buying but you cant get a law firm to give a legal opinion on the lp offering that states its a good investment with all the pending litigation. Wake up!!![/quote]

This is basically what I was getting at.  I get that the GP thing is not a security offering, but why isn't Jones going ahead with the LP offering.  The notion that they can't do it because of uncertainty about M/F revenue sounds like pure bs.  They are still opening offices and spending money in spite of "uncertainty" in industry.  Aren't they really avoiding admitting that they cant do a securities offering because of pending legal issues related to Jones specifically and not the industry as a whole?

AMEN BROTHER DRONE LET THEM ALL HAVE ANOTHER GLASS OF KOOLAID

I think you also have to realize the GP has more liability than a LP so in order for some GP’s  not to have resposibility when the state of CA makes its ruling they had to realocate the GP units. It also gives more power to some GP’s. over others.

[quote=Guest1]

CIB, here is the math. (numbers changed slightly to protect from the sleuths online)

gross 850,000

net 338,000

Bonus 129,000

P/S 9950

p/s excess 6160

483110/850000=56.8%

yes, subtract medical/out of pocket etc but I am still where I said I was. I did not include LP on which I have very little out of pocket expense on. LP for 2005 was over $40,000

 Oh yeah, I can not sell my book. Look around, neither can most of you.

I am done.

[/quote]

Guest1, as usual you are full of crap, and you still can't add........

1. $ 850K (you didn't take my 100K bet?)

2. $ 338K = 40% (There are NO Jones IR's getting 40%, it is 38% (Does the word liar mean anything to you?) at 38% = $ 323 ?

3. Bonus 129K (This is 15% of your gross you are a liar, and anyone on here who has ever or is at Edward Jones knows it)   

4. PS $ 9,950 That is probably the first honest thing you have written 

I know of no Jones IR getting 56% if IR's received that much there would be nothing left for LP's and GP's so we all know this is total

I always said GUEST1 was a LIAR, and now you have proven it............

B U L L  C R A P!

Limited products, aweful payout and overhead expenses, and now no financial planning(like there ever was any).  Why would anyone who could afford to leave continue to stay?

Jones has handed any IR who has thought about leaving the perfect explanatin to their clients.  Keep that compliance memo that says you can not advertise any kind of planning or hold yourself out as a financial planner.  That is the best explanation for clients I have seen yet to explain why you left Jones.

Carpe Diem IR's !!!

Player, I understand that your bonuses were quite small while at EJ but that was due to your profit. Gross has little to do with the bonuses. It is all about the profit stupid. (That was for Lance)

[quote=Guest1]Player, I understand that your bonuses were quite small while at EJ but that was due to your profit. Gross has little to do with the bonuses. It is all about the profit stupid. (That was for Lance)[/quote]

So, let me understand.  You are saying that it is possible to increase your profit without necessarily increasing your gross revenue?  Does that mean that certain products give more profit/bonus to your branch than others?  Are you making recommendations to your clients with this inherent conflict of interest? 

In the words of your fallen comrade, 3 Mill Hill,"You are without a doubt the greatest salesforce in the world."

Ex, nice try. At this level of production yes you can enhance your profit. i.e. I have a rather large margin loan to a corporation, over 2mill that adds to the p/l. Are you still selling product? 

[quote=Guest1]Ex, nice try. At this level of production yes you can enhance your profit. i.e. I have a rather large margin loan to a corporation, over 2mill that adds to the p/l. Are you still selling product? [/quote]

Hard to imagine there would be any decent sized corporation stupid enough to use a margin loan from EJ as a source of capital.  I guess it goes to show you there are morons everywhere in this world......

[quote=Guest1]Ex, nice try. At this level of production yes you can enhance your profit. i.e. I have a rather large margin loan to a corporation, over 2mill that adds to the p/l. Are you still selling product? [/quote]

Did you realize that only $2/$1000 is credited to the P&L? What happens to the other 6+% that Jones gets?

Also don't you feel this does create a conflict of interest? Doesn't it encourage the IR to have a client take a line of credit rather than take a distribution of assets because he/she may get a bonus?? This is another WSJ article waiting to happen if you ask me.

[quote=Guest1]Ex, nice try. At this level of production yes you can enhance your profit. i.e. I have a rather large margin loan to a corporation, over 2mill that adds to the p/l. Are you still selling product? [/quote]

At that level of production almost any other firm would let you act as a financial advisor instead of an IR.

Carpe Diem IRs!!!

Guest1,

What about all your overhead?  1/2 postage 1/2 phone  25% 2nd BOA salary, advertisng etc..?  And your bonus is TEMPORARY as it is based on firm profit.

Need to count it all!

I did and last year as an indy I was close to you in gross and came out to 65% net/net (plus tax benefits galore adds at least 15-20k)  I don't count my free RJ stock either (up 50% last 12 months)

I have saved more money in the last 3 years as an indy than my previous ten at Jones.  It's not intentional...it just happened.  I live about the same lifestyle. Somehow, my takehome pay ends up net/net much higher than at Jones.  Maybe the tax benefit's add up to much more?  Maybe the Bush tax cut also helps...but Guest1, I think you need to re-add it again.  And, this time count it all. 

It's cool though--It's not ALL about the money.  I'm sure the warm fuzzy feeling inside you get when watching a sexual harrassment or inclusion video at the summer regional makes it all come together for you.  And your broad depth of product has to help as well.

Thank goodness for being indy--it really has been the best business move I have ever made BY FAR!

Hello I’m and ej rep and I sell “A” shares. Here’s your options mr. client, “a” share mutual funds or “a” share annuities. Buy and hold is the only way to lose your money and I’m so grateful for the 25 bps serivce fee so that I can service my 3500 clients. Is this a great company or what???

Hey ez$, let's at least be accurate here.

That's 39% of 25bps.

ezmoney- Aren’t you the one that takes that 25% at BofA? Now that’s a GREAT deal… I find it very difficult to take a bank broker seriously after all…

[quote=noggin]ezmoney- Aren't you the one that takes that 25% at BofA? Now that's a GREAT deal.... I find it very difficult to take a bank broker seriously after all..[/quote]

says the ej "ir" was looking to go a bank BD?

after realizing my mistake going to the bank I find it hard to take myself seriously.

Guys, can we get back to that damn picture that started this thread? I know there's some more good jokes/comments out there in regards to it.

[quote=compliancejerk]

[quote=noggin]ezmoney- Aren't you the one that takes that 25% at BofA? Now that's a GREAT deal.... I find it very difficult to take a bank broker seriously after all..[/quote]

says the ej "ir" was looking to go a bank BD?

[/quote]

When one looks it is usually to establish their value in the marketplace. Point taken, however.