Ameriprise
Any thoughts on the offerings/system, etc?
what would you like to know specifically?
Anything about the firm. I see different things on the boards but most of them pretty negative. I hear they promote a bunch of idiots through management because everyone else leaves. Is it really that bad? Can someone do business there or is it amature hour?
You can do business there. Its like Edward Jones (to give you an appropriate analogy since you’ve probalby heard alot more about them on this board) in a way because they used to hire 1,000,000 people per year hoping a few gems would stick. Now they hire only career changers and advisors moving over from different firms. I wouldn’t recommend it as a place to start your career because their/our proprietary products suck and unless you at a certain level you can’t go outside for insurance products. Management is a joke, but as long as you are able to drown it out and not let them influence you in any way you would be fine.
Ick... 3rd, you strike me as a pretty standup guy/gal. Why do you put up with this?You can do business there. Its like Edward Jones (to give you an appropriate analogy since you’ve probalby heard alot more about them on this board) in a way because they used to hire 1,000,000 people per year hoping a few gems would stick. Now they hire only career changers and advisors moving over from different firms. I wouldn’t recommend it as a place to start your career because their/our proprietary products suck and unless you at a certain level you can’t go outside for insurance products. Management is a joke, but as long as you are able to drown it out and not let them influence you in any way you would be fine.
Ick... 3rd, you strike me as a pretty standup guy/gal. Why do you put up with this?[/quote] I'm in the P2 world now...no management. Those just starting out now will have to start on the employee side in P1. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy with the way its structured now.[quote=3rdyrp2]You can do business there. Its like Edward Jones (to give you an appropriate analogy since you’ve probalby heard alot more about them on this board) in a way because they used to hire 1,000,000 people per year hoping a few gems would stick. Now they hire only career changers and advisors moving over from different firms. I wouldn’t recommend it as a place to start your career because their/our proprietary products suck and unless you at a certain level you can’t go outside for insurance products. Management is a joke, but as long as you are able to drown it out and not let them influence you in any way you would be fine.
how about bonds, annuities, managed money, 401ks. my fear is some kind of requirement to do fin plans or your out
They want you to do financial plans. In P1 your payout will be determined by 3 things (Assuming its still the same structure as when I was in P1): % of target financial plans, % of target clients acquired, % of total GDC. They all play an equal 1/3 in determining it. In P2 the payout isn’t determined by plans, but the bonus payout will be determined by plans only, up to an additional 7%. And you need to sell about 110 plans to qualify for that.
The bond desk is getting better, you get one choice of annuity company but that number goes to either 2 or 3 in Q1 of next year. They haven't told us what companies though. Managed money is good, the SPS platform gives you ALOT of flexibilty with all securities, although no options. There is a good choice of 401(k) providers to use also.I left in 2006, came in under the IDS days, and was an original p2. The forever changing direction of the corporate office and how our comp/expenses were calculated was just too much. I drank the kool aide since 1993 but decided to leave in 2003. It took until 2006 before I could get out from under it, in the client’s best interest.
I was successful there, but just did not want to pay for services I did not require, nor did I want. Mgmt was never in my hair, I made them too much lol. But when the name on the paycheck manufactures products, that is a conflict not only in compensation and earnings for the firm, but ethically. Koolaide only goes so far and quasi-independent was not for me. I prefer to "hire" a b/d rather than be hired by one. To each his own!my intention is to take 2 checks then go independant. i think if this looks viable, and the money they offer is good, i will take the deal and then in 7 years look for another one. any idea what they pay a 250-300k producer upfront?
I am not certain why you would go there unless you are nearing retirement and need the pension and health benefits due to issues of chronic illness. The production level you suggest may not be what you earn obviously. you have “production” at 300k but earn 40% of that? I do not think they will pay you anything but promise you something better…a lambs hook comes to mind. If you are in discussions now, request the P2 UFOC (Uniform Franchise Offering Circular). Find the section on “Forebearance”. This is your get out of jail step by step criteria to avoid litigation should you ever leave the brand. You are not permitted to leave the “brand” so to speak under any platform, and go to Securities America.
Be very careful. I received many accounts over the years while there from folks who came in from other firms and did well for 2 years, and were out of the biz after 5. I suggest you watch the movie; "The Firm". While there is not a mob, the realization that Cruise had when he learned his fate will be the same feeling you will have. Remember that the best face is put forward by the those you deal with. The reality is after your book has transfered and the honeymoon is over, you are just going to have to put in the extream work that is compliance and paperwork, with slow and unreliable technology, telephone back office from Guam who have broken english and long wait times. Once you leave P1 and begin to pay franchise fees, tech fees, OSJ fees, EO fees, et al....40% of your time will be spent chasing paper....even with staff. I left that ever-changing corporate direction and reduced expenses by over 40%, increased revenues by 85% and cut my work in the office time to 25 hours a week. Did I mention I did this by reducing clients by one third? I run the same fee based business, do very little commission product and I did not replace the insurance I had placed? The difference is the GDC is not industry standard there, no matter what they tell you. You will get a % of GDC as payout on a reduced GDC standard, then get that applied to a scorecard, and that scorecard can and does change every year. The changes imposed by the metrix can totally change and force you to unwind your practice to another strategy to maintain. As a planning company mantra, how do you plan your practice when the methods change every 2-3 years. Be very careful.I have to be honest…most of what you just said flew right past me.
I do get that Firm feeling. My buddy got let go from MS and went there. He is leaving. He used to have to go to bowling events and team building things all the time when he started.I can’t disagree with Amp at all.
However, going forward, the platform, technology, and research (especially for the P1) are adopted from HRBFA. From what they keep telling us, they bought us to adopt our culture. They have admitted candidly that what they did in the past was a mistake and will not sustain future growth. From my understanding, P1 was just a factory to get a newbie to P2 as past as they could. From what we've been told, that will not be the case at all in the future. HRBFA had about 1000 brokers. About 500 new brokers have been recruited since the start of 2009. Combine that with the maybe 1000 brokers that were in P1 and the new brokers and their existing attitudes are the majority. Once again, this is what we are told (we're still in a wait and see until Oct.), we aren't required to sell any financial plans("just another arrow in your quiver"), we'll have 3-4 vendors for VA's (of course, Riversource being one of them), life insurance is mainly Riversource with limited John Hanc*** and Genworth. It sure isn't perfect as I already feel more of a "sales" atmosphere. That part somewhat reminds me of when I was Ed Jones. I can live with the VA's and the Life Insurance...and I could care less about American Funds. I think this quote made from one of our higher ups about the intergration sums up what direction the P1 is going, "It will take our brokers (referring to HRBFA) maybe a month to learn how to do financial plans; It will take 5-7 years for yours to learn options." I'm not advocating the firm at all. I'm only relaying what I know.I was told the HR Block side was more open arch and a better platform with more resources.
You are correct. Fee based or transactional doesn’t matter to them. We aren’t being pushed one way or another. Of course, ask me again in Novermber.
One other limitation and this is one that chaps me, only because I've done so well with them in first half of '09, is we are no longer able to solicit leveraged ETF's (i.e., UCO). However, many firms are doing that because too often the broker and the client don't understand them.as for compliance, you will find that the compliance decisions being made are ULTRA conservative, and papers filed and copied for several departments. When it all boils down, under the “current” suitability standards, the firm (AMPF) will always be error free, it is the rep who did wrong. So while the knee-jerk reaction to FINRA’s save thyself from myself mentality, AMPF will most likely review the bottom line rather then enable you to do what is right. Once the dust settles, ETF leverage will be available, just alot of justifications before hand.
[quote=Piker34]
However, going forward, the platform, technology, and research (especially for the P1) are adopted from HRBFA. From what they keep telling us, they bought us to adopt our culture. They have admitted candidly that what they did in the past was a mistake and will not sustain future growth. [/quote] HRBFA was wholely unprofitable (thats why HRB dumped it). AMPF is and always has been highly profitable. Why would a company adopt an unprofitable business model in lieu of one that was highly profitable??? Anyone know by chance what AMPF is offering recruits to P1?News article today said that Ameraprise is going to buy the equity and fixed income funds of Columbia. Blackrock is going to buy the money market funds.
I read that too. I told the Columbia wholesaler a few weeks back that with the merger, his group or the ML sales force would get sold, since BOA only really needed infrastructure since they clear(ed) through NFS. We had a good laugh, but wow.
[quote=etj4588][quote=Piker34]
However, going forward, the platform, technology, and research (especially for the P1) are adopted from HRBFA. From what they keep telling us, they bought us to adopt our culture. They have admitted candidly that what they did in the past was a mistake and will not sustain future growth. [/quote] HRBFA was wholely unprofitable (thats why HRB dumped it). AMPF is and always has been highly profitable. Why would a company adopt an unprofitable business model in lieu of one that was highly profitable??? Anyone know by chance what AMPF is offering recruits to P1?[/quote] It was unprofitable because HRB bought Olde Discount for $800 million in 2000 and changed the name to HRBFA. Then HRB never put any money (no exaggeration) into the brokerage arm. It's kind of hard for 1000 brokers to foot an $800 million bill. Once that $800 million was finally paid (2007 or 08), we started being profitable. Of course, once that payment was gone, we were for sale. RBC, Stifel, and others were in line but Ameriprise was willing to pony up for the tax leads/access to the offices. Once again, this is second hand... From what we were told, P1 was unprofitable for Ameriprise. The idea they have going forward is to attract experienced advisors to the P1 side. They couldn't do that before. Edit to note: I don't know off the top of my head what they are offerring P1 recruits, but I do know they will buy an indy book for 1-2x T-12 depending on the source of the revenue. Size doesn't matter...so if you're in a certain midwest state known for corn and want to sell, PM me.[quote=Piker34]
It was unprofitable because HRB bought Olde Discount for $800 million in 2000 and changed the name to HRBFA. Then HRB never put any money (no exaggeration) into the brokerage arm. It's kind of hard for 1000 brokers to foot an $800 million bill. Once that $800 million was finally paid (2007 or 08), we started being profitable. Of course, once that payment was gone, we were for sale. RBC, Stifel, and others were in line but Ameriprise was willing to pony up for the tax leads/access to the offices. [/quote] Look at the numbers again. The writedowns from the purchase cost each year were not the only losses. HRBFA was not a profitable division for HRB - if they were, HRB would have held on to it. And HRB did put money into it, not a hell of a lot, but they did some by expanding the platform, technology, etc.. Sorry, not in a midwest corn state. Trying to figure out how much they might offer a wirehouse guy doing $500K fee-based.AMP will offer something in this range to a primarily fee based advisor in the $500k range:
Upfront 25-30%
6 month asset transfer bonus 25% range
18 month production bonus 25-30% range
fixed payout 50% on revenue first year
Each piece has a 7 year note attached to it.
Pretty stiff obligation for a guy who can get twice this money or much more on a 9 year deal all over the place.
I’ve seen an offer that my buddy got and been told it’s pretty much the same for anyone in their target range of $200k and up on the PI side. Be advised… the offer is super complicated and it’ll take an attorney to comprehend it.
PII indy side is a bit different but follows similar logic, just smaller numbers I’m told.
Don’t slay me if I’m wrong today… these are numbers from March timeframe.
[quote=etj4588][quote=Piker34]
It was unprofitable because HRB bought Olde Discount for $800 million in 2000 and changed the name to HRBFA. Then HRB never put any money (no exaggeration) into the brokerage arm. It's kind of hard for 1000 brokers to foot an $800 million bill. Once that $800 million was finally paid (2007 or 08), we started being profitable. Of course, once that payment was gone, we were for sale. RBC, Stifel, and others were in line but Ameriprise was willing to pony up for the tax leads/access to the offices. [/quote] Look at the numbers again. The writedowns from the purchase cost each year were not the only losses. HRBFA was not a profitable division for HRB - if they were, HRB would have held on to it. And HRB did put money into it, not a hell of a lot, but they did some by expanding the platform, technology, etc.. Sorry, not in a midwest corn state. Trying to figure out how much they might offer a wirehouse guy doing $500K fee-based. [/quote] I don't disagree about the profitability. Maybe money wasn't quite the correct terminology. What made the HRBFA experiment fail was lack of integration into the tax offices among other things. Moot point now. I'm not defending. That being said, I liked the platform. I liked the open arch. I liked our research, bonddessk, fixed income new issues (especially preferreds), variety of equity linked CD's, etc. I will fully admit, when we found out Ameriprise was buying us, I started looking for office space and BD's. Riversourse VA's and financial plans are the only thing that came to mind and figured they would push us to sell them. So far, they (Ameriprise) are saying some of the right things. However, every day is a new day.[quote=Piker34]
I don't disagree about the profitability. Maybe money wasn't quite the correct terminology. What made the HRBFA experiment fail was lack of integration into the tax offices among other things. Moot point now. I'm not defending. That being said, I liked the platform. I liked the open arch. I liked our research, bonddessk, fixed income new issues (especially preferreds), variety of equity linked CD's, etc. I will fully admit, when we found out Ameriprise was buying us, I started looking for office space and BD's. Riversourse VA's and financial plans are the only thing that came to mind and figured they would push us to sell them. So far, they (Ameriprise) are saying some of the right things. However, every day is a new day. [/quote] I always feared that the tax integration wouldn't work and it didn't because there are two different mindsets at play - those of the advisors and those of the tax pros - very very different mindsets. I hope things do work well at AMPF, the Olde culture was a lot of fun (so I heard).Financial plans are not a requirement, just encouraged since that is what they advertise.
Also, someone said they dont do options... That isnt true. I do quite a bit of them.Updated.AMP will offer something in this range to a primarily fee based advisor in the $500k range: Over $499,999:
Upfront 25-30% 40%
6 month asset transfer bonus 25% range 50 bps
18 month production bonus 25-30% range 100% production bonus based on months 7-18 as long as you do 60% of recruited T-12
fixed payout 50% on revenue first year 52% enhanced payout on first 3 years
Each piece has a 7 year note attached to it. Production and upfront bonuses carry a 7 year obligation
Pretty stiff obligation for a guy who can get twice this money or much more on a 9 year deal all over the place.
I’ve seen an offer that my buddy got and been told it’s pretty much the same for anyone in their target range of $200k and up on the PI side. Be advised… the offer is super complicated and it’ll take an attorney to comprehend it. This I couldn’t tell you as I have not seen a contract.
PII indy side is a bit different but follows similar logic, just smaller numbers I’m told.
Don’t slay me if I’m wrong today… these are numbers from March timeframe.
[quote=etj4588][quote=Piker34]
However, going forward, the platform, technology, and research (especially for the P1) are adopted from HRBFA. From what they keep telling us, they bought us to adopt our culture. They have admitted candidly that what they did in the past was a mistake and will not sustain future growth. [/quote] HRBFA was wholely unprofitable (thats why HRB dumped it). AMPF is and always has been highly profitable. Why would a company adopt an unprofitable business model in lieu of one that was highly profitable??? Anyone know by chance what AMPF is offering recruits to P1?[/quote]This is terribly incorrect and misinformed.
[quote=etj4588][quote=Piker34]
It was unprofitable because HRB bought Olde Discount for $800 million in 2000 and changed the name to HRBFA. Then HRB never put any money (no exaggeration) into the brokerage arm. It's kind of hard for 1000 brokers to foot an $800 million bill. Once that $800 million was finally paid (2007 or 08), we started being profitable. Of course, once that payment was gone, we were for sale. RBC, Stifel, and others were in line but Ameriprise was willing to pony up for the tax leads/access to the offices. [/quote] Look at the numbers again. The writedowns from the purchase cost each year were not the only losses. HRBFA was not a profitable division for HRB - if they were, HRB would have held on to it. And HRB did put money into it, not a hell of a lot, but they did some by expanding the platform, technology, etc.. Sorry, not in a midwest corn state. Trying to figure out how much they might offer a wirehouse guy doing $500K fee-based. [/quote]again, incorrect. *sigh*
HRBFA was sold because the guy running HRB at the time was trying to figure a way to free up desperate cash to purchase the HRB tax offices back from a franchisee in Texas. To clarify, for the past N years, the HRB tax offices in Texas where not owned by HRB corp! The old man in charge of franchising the tax offices would never let up and it took the sale of Mortgage and HRBFA to get the cash. HRB Bank made significantly less money than either of those divisions but stayed. Think about it.
The numbers are there and do not lie. The production HRBFA's 1000 advisors made matched the same numbers AMP's 10,000. The average production per AMP advisor was in the low 100ks. AMP's own CEO shared this info with us.
In the end, they were buying out their competition. You see, HRBFA's roots CAME from AMP. Nobody knows that. Their names escape me atm, but two gentlemen left the AMP model and took what didn't work at the time and changed it around to form HRBFA. Warren Buffet;s advice.
Regarding Buffett's advice, is that in reference to buying the competition or the two gentlemen going to block and taking what didn't work and changing it?
any idea on where they are regarding marketing budget. they threw around 2% on trailing 12. i go to an office today to look at things and presumably i will see an offer after that.
they asked me to sign something which i have refused. i told them look at my info through nasdr.org. were others asked to sign something (credit check, etc…)?
Most places, especially the financial industry, do a credit check before hiring you. I don’t remember signing anything to authorize it though, I thought they just did it.
Word on the street is that AMP P1 will only have 4 annuity carriers.
Hartford, two others, and of course Riversource. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the two others was Genworth. Bye, bye JNL, Ohio, TransAmerica
Here’s the kicker…
Wholesalers can no longer visit the reps in the branch. Except, of course, for Riversource wholesalers.
This is what I’m hearing. Can anyone confirm?
[quote=etj4588] Word on the street is that AMP P1 will only have 4 annuity carriers.Hartford, two others, and of course Riversource. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the two others was Genworth. Bye, bye JNL, Ohio, TransAmericaHere’s the kicker…Wholesalers can no longer visit the reps in the branch. Except, of course, for Riversource wholesalers.This is what I’m hearing. Can anyone confirm?
[/quote]
That’s pretty much on target from what’s been said. I don’t think they have formally said which will be the other carriers. Rumor has it is that Hartford will not be one of them, but who knows. However, you will be able to service existing contracts, make additional payments, and receive trails as long as Ameriprise has a service agreement with them. That list will more than likely encompass most annuity business on the books at HRBFA. I’ll update when I find out more.
As far as the wholesaler thing, you’re spot on. But how are they going to truly regulate that? And how many advisors will not continue existing relationships because of it?
P1 AND P2, or just P1? How is this enforced, and why would they do this? Do they not think this would decrease newer advisors ability to learn about available products as well as learn about HOW the products work?Word on the street is that AMP P1 will only have 4 annuity carriers.
Hartford, two others, and of course Riversource. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the two others was Genworth. Bye, bye JNL, Ohio, TransAmerica
Here’s the kicker…
Wholesalers can no longer visit the reps in the branch. Except, of course, for Riversource wholesalers.
This is what I’m hearing. Can anyone confirm?
[quote=3rdyrp2]
P1 AND P2, or just P1? How is this enforced, and why would they do this? Do they not think this would decrease newer advisors ability to learn about available products as well as learn about HOW the products work? [/quote]From what I heard, just P1. They will do it because they want the reps to sell Riversource only. Sort of blows a huge hole in anabuhabkuss' theory about AMP adopting HRBFA's culture and business model doesn't it???
I heard P1 could add to existing k’s but would not receive additional commissions only trails. Also, if the wholesalers can’t enter branch or meet with FA’s they will stop focusing on AMP and that should force reps to use Riversource more.
http://www.fa-mag.com/component/content/article/7-news/4306.html?Itemid=40
“Few things are more important to investors than getting unbiased advice from their financial advisors,” Robert Khuzami, director of the SEC’s Division of Encorcement, said in a prepared statement. “Ameriprise customers were not informed about the incentives its brokers had to sell these investments.”Still West of Wall Street?
[quote=Amp2Indy2006] http://www.fa-mag.com/component/content/article/7-news/4306.html?Itemid=40
“Few things are more important to investors than getting unbiased advice from their financial advisors,” Robert Khuzami, director of the SEC’s Division of Encorcement, said in a prepared statement. “Ameriprise customers were not informed about the incentives its brokers had to sell these investments.”Still West of Wall Street?[/quote] Wow Amp2Indy you posted this in several spots. You need to add a disclosure that this happened from 2000 to 2004 and you were still a part of the Amp team. Thanks buddy
[quote=etj4588] [quote=3rdyrp2]
P1 AND P2, or just P1? How is this enforced, and why would they do this? Do they not think this would decrease newer advisors ability to learn about available products as well as learn about HOW the products work? [/quote]From what I heard, just P1. They will do it because they want the reps to sell Riversource only. Sort of blows a huge hole in anabuhabkuss' theory about AMP adopting HRBFA's culture and business model doesn't it???[/quote] I have not heard of this and would be surprised to see this happen.
[quote=tcblock][quote=etj4588] [quote=3rdyrp2]
P1 AND P2, or just P1? How is this enforced, and why would they do this? Do they not think this would decrease newer advisors ability to learn about available products as well as learn about HOW the products work? [/quote]From what I heard, just P1. They will do it because they want the reps to sell Riversource only. Sort of blows a huge hole in anabuhabkuss' theory about AMP adopting HRBFA's culture and business model doesn't it???[/quote] I have not heard of this and would be surprised to see this happen.[/quote] It already has happened. Heard if from the wholesalers themselves!
I do know for a fact that annuity wholesalers (whomever we pick) will NOT be allowed in our offices.
I also know for a fact that Columbia wholesalers will be allowed no matter what…they will be an Ameriprise Company
[quote=etj4588]
[quote=3rdyrp2]
P1 AND P2, or just P1? How is this enforced, and why would they do this? Do they not think this would decrease newer advisors ability to learn about available products as well as learn about HOW the products work? [/quote]From what I heard, just P1. They will do it because they want the reps to sell Riversource only. Sort of blows a huge hole in anabuhabkuss' theory about AMP adopting HRBFA's culture and business model doesn't it???[/quote]
It did blow a hole. The whole thing turned into chaos and as much as I knew that, realistically, what was going on would result in them imposing riversource on us, I did not expect it given how the acquisition/merger was dealt with. Lesson learned.
I'm still in the biz, icecold. I come in to read but don't feel the need to engage with all the **** swinging that goes on here. I'm not with Ameriprise anymore. Working on what happens next. I'm 95% sure I'm going independent.
Run while you still can. amp will only be a good value proposition for the leaders. Indy is the only true way to go!!!
I don’t work for Ameriprise. I had an interview with them two months ago. I liked the manager. This is a former Block office. I don’t know about P1 or P2. We spoke to someone in Minneapolis. The annuity part is true. They only allow 4. One of them is Lincoln, I think Hartford, Riversource, and I forget the other. I don’t sell annuities, so that doesn’t affect me. What did is that I put people into managed accounts, and I manage. The Ameriprise guy in Minnesota said that we could not buy American funds in a managed account. That blew them out of the water. My first thought was…“what else don’t you guys allow…?” Today, I heard from a former AGE broker who is over there. And he claims there are a lot unhappy campers. Even WFA doesn’t restrict products. At least not yet. To me Ameriprise is a closed shop insurance company. No Thanks!
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