AGE/WB Defection--not rumor

I am leaving tomorrow. Wish me luck.

Good luck brokerman.  May The Force be with you!

Left several weeks ago. Couldn’t be happier.

The path of least resistance (staying and seeing what shakes out) seems to be real attractive to me. We’ll see how it goes.

Good luck to all of you guys/gals no matter what you did or will do.

There's an announcement on Stifel's website now about John and Jim Lee if you wish to read it.

I left earlier this month for Raymond James.  Look for the pace of the AGE exodus to pick up as the August 31 retention package declaration deadline approaches…

There was a Dow Jones' piece today comparing both firms' compensation packages/production/AUM et al. Also some speculation as to what the final comp plan would look like (some headhunter chimed in).

For those of you who are still on the fence and have interest, e-mail me if you want at [email protected]. I don't want to post the article here (TOS violations).

FD: I am not with WB. I am not with AGE. I am not a headhunter. I am not with LEHman, either. I do hope you all enjoyed last week's upgrade (by LEHman) on RIMM. 20% in a week or less in a nice trade in anyone's book!

Have a great weekend one and all.

I like Ferris' idea of splitting the upfront money of the fcs that leave. It will never happen but it's nice to think about.

What I want to know is how is the AGE/WB combo going to increase the average production of us lowly AGE guys. We average 350k, they average 666k. Any ideas?

What I want to know is how is the AGE/WB combo going to increase the
average production of us lowly AGE guys. We average 350k, they average
666k. Any ideas?

 That’s easy. IF you happen to be one of the average ones (any of the 4000 + AGE FC who do $350k or less (@$350k is the MEAN, the MEDIAN is more like $290), you will have your payout cut to the point that you will either 1) Work like hell to get your production up above @$400k so you can be back where you were pre-merger 2) Downsize your home, your car, your eating habits and, probably your wife, or 3) You will continue to work to grow your business to get it to $400k and beyond, but do it with a firm that values you (even as a $300-$350 “lowlife” and shows you that your business is profitable by letting you actually keep the fruits of your labor.
 So, as you can see, WB will raise the average production of AGE brokers by, mostly, squeezing them out. Look on the bright side, those who are left will be among those with a higher average production!
 P.S. Bobby and yourself are welcome to my share of the retention package, as I have no desire to get into that bed to begin with.
 

Did you mean Ferris (not Bobby) as far as the sharing?

I think a certain fc from Rochester put it best. How do you know if B is better than A until you see what A is like?

GG,
 Yeah, I guess I meant Ferris. If Danny wants to add my retention dollars to a pool shared by those who stay, that’d be fine by me. (I’m sure Danny would do that for you newest members of the family).
 Your question reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite movies, “Well, I don’t know any lepers either, but I’m going to run out and join one of their F-in’ clubs.”
 I have no desire to work for a giant wire house (I mean, bank) and, I’ve seen the Pro Formas from the independent alternative(s). I’m a small business man, not a huge conglomerate employee; but hey, that’s just me. Good luck to you all!

[quote=Gordon Gekko]

I think a certain fc from Rochester put it best. How do you know if B is better than A until you see what A is like?

So I guess he lied when it was asked if he was paid and he said no. Using the top guys and gals as a benchmark probably has little to do with the fcs doing 350k. However, I think they were being honest.

Personally, I think Danny said it best in one of his first speeches to us. He used words to the effect of, The way this business is going, there will, at some point, only be two alternatives, Merrill or WB.
 That absolutely floored me. It also got me thinking about alternatives. I noticed, right off, that the independent side of the business had seemed to have completely slipped Danny’s mind.
 GG, you seem to have talked yourself into staying and accepting whatever they choose to give you. I honestly wish you all the luck in the world.
 

maybe ny fc didn’t get paid, but a guy who has it down to about 4 hours a day isn’t moving anyway. 

and who is to say Raymond James won’t get taken out tomorrow?

Several large brokers left AG last week and jumped to RJ.  This was in the Sarasota/Port Charlotte area of FL.  The amount of defections are increasing quickly. 

As more advisors leave AG the remaining brokers are realizing they are part of a sinking ship.  This merger is going to be a mess. 

you may be right.  It could happen.  However if it did they would have to keep RJ or LPL on an indy high payout structure similar to Finet with WS.  I could see WS going after RJ at some point.

Longer term I see a continued trend of dual registration (brokerage/RIA) at the indy’s.  The large wires will need to adopt this at some point to retain/attract fee based indy reps.  If not they’ll jump to full RIA with Schwab or Fidelity. IMO this wave is about 5-7 yrs down the road.  The reps turning to a larger fee based business will always have options and be desired by all firms. 

The other trend after these firms consolidate will be reduction of reps.  CFP’s will be mandatory and production requirements will be large.  (again 5-7 yrs)

my above post was response to Gekko, the quote didn’t show up.

You are right the defections are increasing.  I left AGE after a long tenure with the firm.  I would rather been there for life because it used to be a really good firm. How can anyone stay when you can't believe a word anyone says in upper management!  I don't know if this is true but I have been told that Wach only expects to keep about 40% of the current force.

we have got few AGE people at ferris baker watts in the last few weeks

I think speculation about anything (fc retention, payouts, etc.) is a joke seeing that nothing is changing for another year. If things stink at that point, the FBW/RJF alternative will still be there.

Thinking that AGE was the only client-first culture out there is misguided. Fc's, regardless of employer/top-management, will follow their instincts (client first or yield to broker).

Exactly Gordon…I am w you…another year to build business/prepare clinets if things dont got well…pick up assets from those that jumped early, and if things dont suck guess what we didnt jump from the frying pan into the fire like these guys are now…if they do we can still leave…whats the rush? Havent had a single person in my 15 person office leave as of yet

Havent had a single person in my 15 person office leave as of yet.

Get back to us on Tuesday. With the long Holiday weekend approaching I have a feeling that a lot of FA's, regardless of the firm, are going to be cashing massive checks and changing the address on their business cards...

In case anyone cares (All together now, “We don’t!!”) I plan to leave by February, '08. This will give a chance to build out a killer office space and find top notch support staff and not rush. It will also get me out before WB can have any money to hold over my head (I am forgoing the Loan Bonus option). Perhaps others have a similar time line in mind. So there may be a lull in attrition for a few months. Again, I’m sure you all care…

I am considering moving myself and have an interest in sharing my circumstance for feedback. Been with AGE for 6 years.. Now I am 30 yrs old and forced to look at my next 30 years with a Major Wirehouse. By default WB, or by choice considering ML. Just because it is pertinant : I will do 500M+ this year w/ 60MM in assets and I am struggling with the "stay or go" delema. Main reason for the consideration is , I am having trouble with the WB brand. After polling clients over the past weeks it is evident that they do too. Will our clients understand the difference between Wach Sec..and the WB broker who tried to sell Mom the annuity when she went in to renew her CD??  While I understand that clients do business with their advisor in most cases because of the advisor. However, I believe a strong brand certainly helps at least initially.

I know the guys at ML are not working any harder or any smarter. But their numbers speak for themselves. On average a ML FA has more assets, revenue, gross, avg acct size..the list goes on.. Trying to keep the ENORMOUS amount of their offer from clouding my judgement.  However, given my circumstances the move is really looking good..I can't imagine a better time.. Any opinions? Understand indy is not for me..  I spend too much time outside the office, hate dealing with the details and like the leverage of an office environment.

Also where do look for info on how to move the right way?

I left AGE after many years in large part because of the self-enriching act of betrayal by Bagby, who was complicit in (if not the architect of) the sellout to a bank-controlled enterprise.  The retention plan, especially the "they'll-never-have-to-pay-most-of-it" deferred element, wasn't an incentive to me.  I'd rather do business in a pleasant and competent environment with less ambiguity (and with a larger recruitment bonus) than in a setting of operational and compensation cloudiness (with a retention plan that was trumpeted as industry-leading prior to its unveiling only to be revealed as a minimal effort upon its actual disclosure).

I've retained virtually all of my A and B clients who I wanted to retain.  They do business with the FC and not the firm.  Believe it or not, many if not most were unaware of the merger.  (They have their own lives to worry about and probably don't ever read those statement inserts or keep up with M&A developments.)  What did I tell my clients?  By noting that the AGE name would be going away, that a bank and its agenda would ultimately be the controlling parent of the new firm, that Ben Edwards was given a standing ovation at the shareholders meeting after voicing his displeasure with the merger, and that, acting in what I felt were my clients' and family's best interests, I had chosen to transition my practice to a firm that in my view provided a level of visibility, cultural comfort and professional capability that was important to THEIR advisor, clients UNDERSTOOD.  After all, as many of you know, a good percentage of households in any book have experienced a job change in the past seven years.  To members of those households, I joked that I was jealous of that they had changed jobs and that I hadn't -- and they offered their congratulations just as I offered mine to them in the past.

Be not afraid.  There is life after AGE.  Talk to other firms to assess whether they offer you a good professional fit.  Take the time to prepare your spreadsheets according to the protocol agreement.  It's a time-consuming effort, but well worth it.  (This is a spreadsheet you can take with you that lists your clients' names, addresses, phone numbers and account titles/types (but not account numbers).  Your new B/D will provide further details on the do's and don't's.  Find out what transition services your new B/D can offer.  Ensure that they cover (reimburse) transfer and termination fees.  It's powerful to let clients know that they won't have to incur a charge just because you decided to change firms.  AGE will send out a strong-toned letter promising various charges should the client choose to leave.  DOZENS of clients have commented how unprofessional / intimidating the letter came across.   Also, it's important to let clients know that their accounts can transfer over in-kind.  Many don't understand what in-kind means, so I explain that they won't have to sell their investments and then re-buy them -- that everything just transfers over as-is.  The "what happens to my investments" questions is perhaps their most important concern.

Good luck to all.  Some believe that by staying they'll pick up assets from departing FCs.  After seeing their treasure of assigned accounts ACAT themselves away after spending the better part of an unproductive week trying to retain those assets, some will "get" that their clients will be just as loyal as those of the departed FC.

Hint:  Leave later in the day on a Friday, preferably before a long weekend, to minimize the chance that your accounts can be called or have a mailing sent to them the same day.  You can only call your accounts one at a time.  If your AGE accounts are divided up among a half dozen or so FCs, your asset-hungry former colleagues can cover more ground more quickly.  You want your "new firm" announcements and account transfer forms to be in the mail on Friday afternoon for Saturday delivery -- and plan to call late on Friday and all day Saturday to advise your valued clients of your move.  Then make sure your clients fill out and return their forms right away -- or preferably come in to have you assist them with the paperwork.  Shoot for a 75% paperwork-received rate three weeks after you move with the remainder that you want coming over within the next month. 

Also, consider the timing of your move with the payment of trails and fees.  AGE brokers might prefer to depart in a month when such payments are minimal.  Consider, too, the timing of your ACAT submissions.  Accounts will be frozen for a few days.  Try to time the ACATs so as not to disrupt monthly payouts, MAPs or other automated processes.  Clients will appreciate your effort to minimize disruptions to their routines.

Hope this has been beneficial to those considering a transition.

That was a very helpful post FL Broker I agree with all you said.

25% have left my former AGE office, I know for sure that a 500k  producer will be leaving tomorrow prior to the long weekend. I suspect more will follow in the coming months.

I concur with Ferris - I am not leaving now but that is a great guideline if I do.

Kudos FL Broker. Thanks for the time it took to share that. To all you AGE stalwarts, don’t count on sitting back and picking up new A & B clients when one of us leaves. Those who leave prepared will leave only the dregs, to whom you are more than welcome. You’ll want to brush up on when all those C client dividend checks go out, because they’ll be calling you EVERY dividend period asking where the check is the day BEFORE it is supposed to be paid. 

YHYW -

yep.

FL Broker- where did you go if you feel comfortable mentioning it?

2 Brokers in Richmond AGE Left last Friday.  Went to Keegan.

[quote=Rusty]

2 Brokers in Richmond AGE Left last Friday.  Went to Keegan.

[/quote]

Morgan Keegan appears to be busting out, growth-wise. They just absorbed a Smith Barney office that closed, in my general area. They appear to be a decent lot.

Morgan Keegan in Richmond is a step up (small) form

Anderson and Strudwick. LOL!

[/quote]

Morgan Keegan appears to be busting out, growth-wise. They just absorbed a Smith Barney office that closed, in my general area. They appear to be a decent lot.

[/quote]

Add them to the list of "soon to be acquired." Go there and you'll just be going thru this ordeal again in 2 yrs

As long as you're laughing why not tell us what is wrong with Anderson Strudwick?

How about Scott and Stringfellow--do they suck too?

Davenport and Company?

What makes you qualified to make statements like the one above?

[QUOTE]

Morgan Keegan appears to be busting out, growth-wise. They just absorbed a Smith Barney office that closed, in my general area. They appear to be a decent lot.

[QUOTE]

Add them to the list of "soon to be acquired." Go there and you'll just be going thru this ordeal again in 2 yrs

[/quote][/quote]

Who do you think owns Morgan Keegan now?

Lady’s Choice (Isn’t that a tampon brand??),
 Didn’t admin just boot you AGAIN today and ask us to “out” you to admin. if you show up again? I have no desire to do so, but it seems odd that you’re so desperate to post here.

It’s not odd. It’s pathetic.

Haven't you heard? 

There is a conspiracy to get the goods on the posters here and turn them into the SEC.

Just because you're paranoid does not mean that they are not out to get you.

I am with a regional. IM me and i will tel you the in’s and out of davenport, anderson, FBW

Come -n- get me! I am a 100% purely legitimate, honest, and complaint free Financial Advisor.
 Now, back to you…Put Trader, DAtoo, DAtwo, Needs Advice. What’s your excuse?

S&S- nothing really wrong with them except BB&T didn't/doesn't know what to do with them. Some good research.

Davenport- Is your blood blue enough!

A&S-Where failed bank brokers go to stay in the business. one big error from going out of business (No insult meant to bank brokers)

Is Branch Cabell still in Richmond?  It was another blue blood firm--may have been acquired by Davenport.  I used to play golf with their CEO in the early '90s--he died.  Seems like his name was Mason New, but I can't recall right now.

As for A&S--you're right, they are marginally capitalized and the management team is a bit lacking in luster, even though they're good guys as men.

[quote]

I guess people will go to great lengths not to have to talk to you.

[/quote]

That is what passes for clever among the sophomoric set.

[quote=Ferris Bueller] [quote=Lady's Choice] I used to play golf with their CEO in the early '90s--
he died. [/quote]

I guess people will go to great lengths not to have to talk to you.[/quote]

has anyone heard anything about Ferris Baker Watts?

Ask Aldo…he went there…

I recruit for them.  What would you like to know?

I was told of a few more defections from AGE to SB and MS today in the STL

area.

More defections…Branch Manager and partner + 2 admin leave Ballantyne, NC office for SBarney…1mm+ team…Walkallovia just got Walkallovaia…

Fee based CLT:

They were not a 1 MM team and only one admin left with the team

Not counting today (if there were any), there have been 8. EIGHT brokers in

the entire AGE system that have left because of the merger.



8



So what.

EIGHT brokers in

the entire AGE system that have left because of the merger.

 Amazing, a guy who knows every single AGE broker and has real-time updates of their employment status!
 Your data is laughably flawed. You will get pummeled off this site with this type of nonsense.

nyhavn17:



Chairman’s Council + Crest Club = 1mm+



Got back to math class.

just think of the opportunity for the remaining fcs when somone that large leaves. 20% retention x 100 - 200 million.

GG,
 Always remember the 80/20 rule. Those departing Fc’s will leave the bottom 20% of their book that accounts for statistically none of their production, but created virtually all of their headaches.

[quote=YHWY] EIGHT brokers in


the entire AGE system that have left because of the merger. </

span>Amazing, a guy who knows every single AGE broker and has real-

time updates of their employment status! Your data is laughably flawed.

You will get pummeled off this site with this type of nonsense.<span

style=“font-weight: bold;”>



[/quote]



Why would I have to know every single broker? Did you read what you

typed before you hit the enter button? You assume too much, young

padiwan, in particular you assumed that I’m not in direct contact with

people who make it their business to know exactly how many have left to

the exact number.



I can’t wait to get pummeled out of here with your feather weight fists

and your complete lack of inside information.

STFU,
 You are absolutely wrong that eight brokers have left AGE since (or “because of” the merger. I don’t care who you are or what position you think you’re in, I know all I need to know already.
 If you keep posting stupid, incorrect data, you will continue to hear about it.

As far as what is happening with John Lee... Looks like AGE is dragging him into court.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2007/09/03/story2 .html

You know all you need to know already because it’s convenient for you and

that’s all you want to hear.



Go ask your regional, your BOM, hell go ask someone in branch

administration. Then you’ll have a clue. At least about this.

I’ve seen 6 leave myself because of the merger so I am guessing 8  is a little (ok a lot) low.

There is no logical reason to leave because of the merger, unless you were going to have to relocate or end up working for a manager with whom you did not get along.

As of now it is not known which offices might be consolidated, and who the ultimate managers will be.

So, it is not impossible that not a single broker left AGE because of the merger.

The reasons to leave are becasue of self interest.  Money is being thrown around and it's easy to justify the move to clients when you cite the merger.  Clients will feel too poorly informed of the mechanics of a merger to challenge the decision and will generally go along.

There are going to be a number of clients who have accounts with both Wachovia and AGE.  The truth in the pudding with that group will be which of the "advisors" they decide should inherit the other guy's share of their account.

It would not surprise me if the AGE guy didn't win more often than not.

I’ve already spoken with 3 clients that also have WB accounts and want me to

take them over post merger.

Sorry “admin”. You, STFU, strike me as the typing-teacher type.

No doubt AGE management--along with WS management--is doing all they can to curtail attrition.

That does not change the FACT that it is not possible to point to the merger itself as a reason to leave.

Too little of what will ultimtely happen is known at this time.

I, personally, have reason to make the merger a reason to leave. I am in SW FL and most of my clients are retired blue-collar types. They have seen their beloved local banks be consumed by the nationals (Wachovia, for the most part). They have gutted the local “culture” of the banks (installed such large staffs that the clients no longer have consistent contacts there) and have nickel and dime’d them to death with fees. These client HATE Wachovia. They now see the same thing (in their perception) about to happen to their beloved regional brokerage. My client (en mass) have  have implored me not to stay with Wachovia post merger. Would you agree that that is a compelling reason to leave? 

[quote]

I, personally, have reason to make the merger a reason to leave. I am in SW FL and most of my clients are retired blue-collar types. They have seen their beloved local banks be consumed by the nationals (Wachovia, for the most part). They have gutted the local "culture" of the banks (installed such large staffs that the clients no longer have consistent contacts there) and have nickel and dime'd them to death with fees. These client HATE Wachovia. They now see the same thing (in their perception) about to happen to their beloved regional brokerage. My client (en mass) have  have implored me not to stay with Wachovia post merger. Would you agree that that is a compelling reason to leave? 

[/quote]

You are not much of a salesman if you can't convince your clients that in the financial business it is good--even great--to be working with the second largest brokerage in the world.

There is a huge difference between having your checking account and perhaps a loan with a small "friendly" bank and having your brokerage account with a small "friendly" broker dealer.

I do not believe that your clients are begging you to change firms.  Clients do not see it as their role to suggest to their "financial adivsor" what business cards that "advisor" should carry.

I think you're a tiny producer who is using this turmoil as an excuse to make a change.

I don't find anything wrong with that, by the way.  It's just that in an environment like this it grates on me to hear anything less than an honest explanation for one's actions. 

We had 5 leave in the next office north of me last week alone…that is one office!

1 broker just left my branch of 20 or so fc’s. 4 more (all producing 500k plus) just left a branch of about 15 fc’s in another part of town. I wonder how many will take off in the coming months. This is probably just the beginning.

Quincey,
 You’re right, I should eat whatever sh*t-sandwich WB chooses to feed me and waste sales presentations on my clients just to get them to do the same.
 I think you are terrified of the coming changes (ie payout cut, 410(k) slash, unhappy clients re: money fund rates, etc.) but are too unsure about yourself to take charge of your own career. That’s fine, but please don’t project all of your insecurities onto the rest of us.
 Most of us here are entrepreneurs, not employees, who are always looking for a better situation for ourselves and our clients.
 On the bright side, I’m sure your BOM loves you, you’re a real Rah-Rah company man (this, surely, allows him to overlook your sub-standard production to some extent).
 Your last post was textbook “Methinks thou dost protest too much.”
 Good luck to you. Just think, in just 11 short years, you’ll have your whole retention bonus. That’s something to shoot for!
 

[quote]

Quincey,
 You're right, I should eat whatever sh*t-sandwich WB chooses to feed me and waste sales presentations on my clients just to get them to do the same.

[/quote]

Role play with me. Tell me why it is in my best interest to not have my brokerage account with the world's second largest broker/dealer backed by a huge bank and all their financial resources.

What is the schidt sandwich I will be eating if I have an account with Wachovia Securities?

How does one "waste" a sales presentation?

That sounds like you consider even talking to your clients to be a waste of your time.  Is that because it takes you away from playing message board loudmouth?

For AGE fcs who stick it out at WB, I think their books will grow faster and so will their production. FCs who leave will probably do fine as well. Things are black or white on this board but in reality not so much. 

Crisis (WB buys AGE) = risk (the unknown) + opportunity (pick up assets).

My gosh, what did they do with a green briar to make them stay.  It sounds absolutely painful.

I think they wined and dined them with a Greenbriar!

Role play with me.
 No. I’ll give you facts, though.

Tell me why it is in my best interest to not have my brokerage account
with the world’s second largest broker/dealer backed by a huge bank and
all their financial resources.
 Because, Wachovia (including Securities) is, at their core, a bank. This will result in clients getting much lower interest rates on cash and many more account related fees. These things are part and parcel of banks and are expected of the bank by its shareholders. Also,
 Wachovia does have proprietary funds (Evergreen, which are dogsh*t) and there will, inevitably, be some degree of pressure to use these funds, otherwise they wouldn’t have a proprietary line of products at all.

How does one “waste” a sales presentation?
 I use sales presentations to make money. In fact the first sales presentations I make after the transition to indy will make me a 93% payout.

 Quincy, you’re free to do what you want (as am I) but it strikes me as odd that you fight so desperately with those who choose to leave. It would seem to indicate some other underlying concern on your part.

The sky isn’t falling.
 Certainly not. That’s why I’m so surprised that some are so eager to argue with us (apparently few) who have chosen to leave.

[quote]

Tell me why it is in my best interest to not have my brokerage account with the world's second largest broker/dealer backed by a huge bank and all their financial resources.

 Because, Wachovia (including Securities) is, at their core, a bank. This will result in clients getting much lower interest rates on cash and many more account related fees. These things are part and parcel of banks and are expected of the bank by its shareholders. Also,
 Wachovia does have proprietary funds (Evergreen, which are dogsh*t) and there will, inevitably, be some degree of pressure to use these funds, otherwise they wouldn't have a proprietary line of products at all.

[/quote]

The "pressure" to use proprietary funds is not applied to the client--it's applied to the "advisor."  Are you saying that you are so weak that you have to not even be around something for fear of falling victim to it?

The securities side of Wachovia is remarkably autonomous.  There many acquisitions--Wheat, Prescott, First Union, Bache and now AGE--have provided them with a HUGE pool of talent and experience.  The bank side has been, and will continue to be, a very happy owner without being a micromanager.

In this business access to capital is what it is all about.  Wachovia is now the second largest broker/dealer on earth.  Merrill is larger by most traditional measures--but Merrill does not have the access to capital that Wachovia Securities enjoys.

There is NO REASON for a client to flee a relationship with the world's second largest brokerage firm, and when they open their August statements they are going to wonder if leaving AGE for LPL is a smart idea when they can simply allow themselves to be absorbed by the second largest brokerage house in the world.

The importance of the broker/dealer is never appreciated in a rising market because a rising tide raises all ships--but in a falling market clients are going to stare at their dwindling accounts and will wonder aloud if their mistake is not allowing their account to be held by one of the firms with a recognizable name and reputation.

Okay, Quincy, either you are a BOM who’s doing anything he can to retain branch brokers and production to get that BIG FAT manager bonus (including trolling websites), or you’ve put blinders on and swallowed the AGE corporate line hook, line and sinker. Either way, best of luck to you. I’m still leaving (and taking ALL of my A and B clients with me). Sorry.
 

[quote]

Okay, Quincy, either you are a BOM who's doing anything he can to retain branch brokers and production to get that BIG FAT manager bonus (including trolling websites), or you've put blinders on and swallowed the AGE corporate line hook, line and sinker. Either way, best of luck to you. I'm still leaving (and taking ALL of my A and B clients with me). Sorry.

[/quote]

I have no doubt that Wachovia can get along without eleven accounts--but will you be able to when they wake up and think that they made a mistake by not staying with the world's second largest broker/dealer and all that it offers?

Again, Quinc, VERY curious that you care so much.
P.S. The feeling of loss will be mutual, trust me.

Just think, when you're an indy you can sleep late then get up and play with Internet forums in your jammies!

No mean branch managers setting standards like showing up at the office at least once a week.

Pretty soon you can be just like Joedabrkr and play with your kids all day using your home's equity buildup like an ATM.

Man, Quinc, you may want to seek help. Seriously, how can you POSSIBLY care so much that some brokers are leaving AGE/WB? You are actually trying (failing, of course, but trying) to personally insult someone who has chosen to leave. You may want to spend a few moments in self-reflection because that’s obviously where your real problem lies.
 Just trying to help, buddy.

I couldn't care less if you or anybody else changes firms.  The entire industry is actually a giant game of musical chairs.

What I am saying is that you're being dishonest when you say it is the merger that motivates you to become an independent.

What motivates you is that you're barely making it at AGE and the idea of working out of a closet at home and keeping 90% is the only real chance you have for long term survival.

So you're using the occasion of the merger as the excuse to make the move now.  You can tell your clients that it's best to do it now and don't have to explain that the real reason is that you'll be gone by the end of the year if you don't get an accelerated payout.

I know more about this than you do, including more about what motivates those of your ilk than those of your ilk know.

Quinc, you have no idea what my “ilk” is.
 Have I thought about going indy before the merger? Yes. Would I have done so without the merger? Probably not. I would have stayed with AGE for my whole career (another 20 years or so). Since AGE is going bye-bye, it has proven a catalyst for me. It will get my clients and myself into a superior situation (regardless of propaganda) for the next 20 years. Your anger and made-up scenarios about me really are an obvious case of projection on your part. Let Quincy worry about Quincy, to paraphrase what we say to out 4 & 6 year old daughters.

What a surprise...another thread ruined by Putsy.

He's not allowed to post at regreps.com

[quote]

Quinc, you have no idea what my "ilk" is.
 Have I thought about going indy before the merger? Yes. Would I have done so without the merger? Probably not. I would have stayed with AGE for my whole career (another 20 years or so). Since AGE is going bye-bye, it has proven a catalyst for me. It will get my clients and myself into a superior situation (regardless of propaganda) for the next 20 years. Your anger and made-up scenarios about me really are an obvious case of projection on your part. Let Quincy worry about Quincy, to paraphrase what we say to out 4 & 6 year old daughters.

[/quote]

I am not worried about you at all.  What I am seeking from you is an honest acknowledgement that you are not going to leave the nest because of the merger.

I am of the opinion that in this merger there are still too many unknowns for any intelligent conclusions that it is in a rep's, or their cient's, best interest to move on.

So the merger is not a catalyst, instead it's an excuse.

Do you disagree?

Putsy,
 Congratulations, you’re getting a little better at disguising yourself. Your unnatural NEED to be here and to try to prove your superiority (when you’re anything but) will always be your dead giveaway, though.
 You know nothing about this merger, nor do you know anything about the indy channel. You are a pitiful old man whom we own. I wonder if admin. is working today?

I can say that I am sticking with AGE/WB but it adds to the stress level when the branch starts to break apart. When half of a small branch leaves, it leaves the other half reeling. Does anyone else see this happening?

GG,
 I think all we can do is use our common sense at this point. My area shakes out like this: we are in a small-market area; there are now two AGE branches (both about 1/2 full) and one Wach. Sec. office, about 1/3 full with ultra low producers within about 7 miles of each other. Do you think that WB is going to keep three offices, three branch managers and about twenty empty offices (This doesn’t even count future attrition due to the merger) going forward?
 Since WB refuses to announce anything for a year, I think we can extrapolate some accurate information.

My situation is different, big market but no other age/wb in a booming part of town.

GG,
 That’s cool. Hopefully your branch dynamic can stay as it is. That’s one less thing to have to be concerned about.

we are actually looking forward to getting some bigger WB fc’s in our office. We’ve had a lot of defections lately and it’s amazing how they can turn an otherwise boring friday afternoon into full-blown chaos.

GG,
 I do find it interesting that you’re seeing so many guys actually walk out the door already. I can’t believe that’s a good sign. (As you know, and, I’m sure don’t care) I’m leaving and there are at least three others in my branch of 8 that are seriously thinking about going, but non of us will actually depart for a couple of months while we make final arrangements. The fact that you’re seeing exodus already is actually quite disturbing for the merger’s success, at least as far as holding on the the #2 (or 3, or 4  for that matter) largest retail brokerage spot is concerned.
 I know of about ten that have left, but not right from my own office.

It’s probably not a good sign for WB shareholders if this turns into a trend for bigger producers. 4 of the 6 were below 400k tt in my case. I agree, to move so soon indicates some degree of jumping the gun. Maybe the Aug. 31 date spooked people with the retention bonus election.

good posts guys.  I know our BoM was on high alert yesterday and a bit nervous, but we lost nobody.  Again, I know of a few going in the next 6 weeks though.  It takes time to get space if going indy, or to get a book in order before jumping to another wire. 

What is starting to annoy me if I was going to stay is the WS ads (those are ok), followed by the WBank ads (not ok) on TV that push the bank reps.  I live in a suburb of one of the largest cities in the country that WBank will be expanding into.  At the end of the day WB/WS will promote the system, not you.  For me and many others its just time to stake our own claim.

The options for leaving are large with every major firm here in town, including WS, and about 200 total wire reps/indy & private CFPs in town. Very affluent area and all the local Indy reps I’ve talked with do just as well if not better than  the average wire rep. 

Richmond VA AGE - 3 gone now another guy left friday for Ferris Baker

is that Richmond branch big? I would think WS might be persona non grata in Richmond.

[quote=Rusty]Richmond VA AGE - 3 gone now another guy left friday for Ferris Baker[/quote]

I know this will raise someones hackles but, what kind of producers were they? Trainees, Pres. Council?

veteran guys. Would rather not comment on exact production, but not

pikers.

Well, as captain obvious would say, it’s apparant that management has lied about the number of defections.  It will be interesting to see the total number that left yesterday.

I told a wholesaler that morning that friday would be a big day for fcs leaving. Little did I know it would be in my own back yard.

Ferris Baker Watts seems to be nabbing some guys. Does anyone hear anything negative about them (other than m&a bait for a bigger fish)? I've been pitched all the positives (high payout, they leave you alone, esop, etc.).

"is that Richmond branch big? I would think WS might be persona non grata in Richmond"

Richmond complex should do about 36-38 million.

YHWY

"Because, Wachovia (including Securities) is, at their core, a bank. This will result in clients getting much lower interest rates on cash and many more account related fees. These things are part and parcel of banks and are expected of the bank by its shareholders. Also,
 Wachovia does have proprietary funds (Evergreen, which are dogsh*t) and there will, inevitably, be some degree of pressure to use these funds, otherwise they wouldn't have a proprietary line of products at all."

Evergreen has NEVER been pushed on WS advisors. No pressure at all.Can't speak to the bank branches. American funds are more popular and there are not any Evergreen in any of the MF fee programs.

Now i have a question. What kind of fees does AGE have

Hydeho,
 AGE has the following fees, $40/yr IRA fee (w/$50/yr max for multiple IRA’s per person). $120/yr. for our “all bells & whistles” cash account, including detailed tax reporting, unlimited check printing and writing, debit/Visa card, auto-bill-pay, free unlimited direct deposit, lower margin rates, etc. (We also offer a completely free cash account (that 95% of my clients use) that includes unlimited check writing (checks must be for $250)). Most importantly neither of these accounts discriminate on account size for interest rate. Everyone gets a current rate of about 4.8% on money market cash.
 These are all of AGE fees (other than outgoing transfer fees (which are lower than all of our competitors)) And a new $100 fee if a client requests certs issued and mailed. That’s it, Hydeho. Now, let’s hear all about how WB is less expensive for the client.

You will find not one WB FA that agrees with the tiered MM rates. Either they will change due to the merger or the lawsuit. or not.

many just use either the institutional MM or a good MF money mkt.

No fees on any account with household value of $250K plus FA gets a 10% discretionary pool to waive fees. Covers most A,B and even some C clients

Command acct $125(full service checking/asset managemwnt

IRA acct $50

Investment acct $60

Not lowest on street but not highest.

ACAT fee $95

Hydeho,
 Thanks for your candor. Honestly, I can’t imagine WB changing their tiered MM rates. This was cited since day one of the merger announcement as one of the the single largest cash-cows WB is capturing (along with the seldom mentioned 2 million sq ft of prime office space in St. Louis (debt free) and the @$2,000,000,000.00 AGE holds in debt-free cash.).This is what I mean about a bank mentality. Time will tell, though. As always, best of luck to all involved.

[quote=Quincy Teacher]

[quote]

I, personally, have reason to make the merger a reason to leave. I am in SW FL and most of my clients are retired blue-collar types. They have seen their beloved local banks be consumed by the nationals (Wachovia, for the most part). They have gutted the local "culture" of the banks (installed such large staffs that the clients no longer have consistent contacts there) and have nickel and dime'd them to death with fees. These client HATE Wachovia. They now see the same thing (in their perception) about to happen to their beloved regional brokerage. My client (en mass) have  have implored me not to stay with Wachovia post merger. Would you agree that that is a compelling reason to leave? 

[/quote]

You are not much of a salesman if you can't convince your clients that in the financial business it is good--even great--to be working with the second largest brokerage in the world.

There is a huge difference between having your checking account and perhaps a loan with a small "friendly" bank and having your brokerage account with a small "friendly" broker dealer.

I do not believe that your clients are begging you to change firms.  Clients do not see it as their role to suggest to their "financial adivsor" what business cards that "advisor" should carry.

I think you're a tiny producer who is using this turmoil as an excuse to make a change.

I don't find anything wrong with that, by the way.  It's just that in an environment like this it grates on me to hear anything less than an honest explanation for one's actions. 

Didn't see this mentioned earlier on any thread:

Morgan Stanley picked up 2 fairly senior AGE advisors 3 weeks ago (Sean Quinn and Harvey Siegel).

Putsy, do you see the irony in demanding honesty when you have in fact
had a different screen name every day for the last 2 weeks?
 As we’ve learned, Putsy has no real experience dealing with investor clients. In fact, he scorns those of us who do that for a living. It should come as no surprise that direct client feedback is something to be ignored at least or “corrected” at best, in his opinion. After all, he’s an order of magnitude smarter that all us FA’s, imagine how dumb he thinks our clients are.

I guess I don’t understand why there is such an uproar over the Money Market Rates issue…it is my understanding, if you have clients (at WS) that want to hold cash as an investment, you can simply go out and buy them a money market fund that pays a competitive rate.

The only downside to the client, is that incoming cash (from dividends and interest) will not automatically sweep into the clients money market fund…you, the broker, will have to drop a ticket.

This is a minor pain in the a$$ and I guess if you didn’t stay on top of it, it could cost your client a few dollars in money market dividends, but it’s not that big of a deal…

I think people who are saying that is THE REASON to leave AGE/Wachovia are using it as an excuse.

AGE had a net loss of 72 FC’s in July.

I think people who are saying that is THE REASON to leave AGE/Wachovia are using it as an excuse.

 Name one person here who cited the Money Market screw-job as THE REASON to leave.

the market market is just one of the differences, not a reason.  And it will be a pain to drop a ticket for every account over $250 in cash when you have over 500 accounts like most good sized reps. 

I don’t doubt that 72 number and suspect it picks up after this past holiday weekend. That being said, I am sticking. I think the stronger branches from a management standpoint will stick and the squirrelly ones will get picked apart.

the market market is just one of the differences, not a reason.  And it will be a pain to drop a ticket for every account over $250 in cash when you have over 500 accounts like most good sized reps. 

Trades are not written up on tickets. Entered on Smartstation. Tickets are so ..well..yesterday

The 72 who left AGE in July was from one of our inside publications.  

Do we even bother having the monthly meetings with Bob any more? I don’t even pay attention.

Per an article today in Investment News, it's up to 150 now (headhunter the source of that number). Be advised headhunters do have a bit of an agenda to "fan the flames." They get paid if they manage to persuade brokers to jump ship.

I don't wish to violate RR's TOS policies by posting links to competitors' articles. There are also comments about the John and Jim Lee departure but nothing about the TRO filed against John. Also no other brokers/advisors mentioned by name.

[quote=Hydeho]

the market market is just one of the differences, not a reason.  And it will be a pain to drop a ticket for every account over $250 in cash when you have over 500 accounts like most good sized reps. 

Trades are not written up on tickets. Entered on Smartstation. Tickets are so ..well..yesterday

As one of those brokers who left in July (600m +) I should point out something no one has talked about yet. Due to this merger all of the institutional types are “Dead Meat”. Their clients very well may have Wach accounts as well, who do you think will win a turf battle as to whose accounts they are.  As you know you can not have more than one broker at AGE.  As soon as the merger is finalized, or just before, they will lhave to leave in mass.

You can have as many brokers at AGE as you want. I have clients that use me for bonds and another old friend of theirs in Fl for stocks.

In addition I think that the 72 "defections" is not accurate as many are also failures from training and retirees, not to mention a few older guys that dropped dead last month.

[quote]

As one of those brokers who left in July (600m +) I should point out something no one has talked about yet. Due to this merger all of the institutional types are "Dead Meat". Their clients very well may have Wach accounts as well, who do you think will win a turf battle as to whose accounts they are.  As you know you can not have more than one broker at AGE.  As soon as the merger is finalized, or just before, they will lhave to leave in mass.

[/quote]

I think that is backwards.  AGE was a very well established and respected firm--Wachovia was less respected.

I bet that the institutional clients will chose their AGE broker as their favored broker in the combined firm.

For those clients who really do not have a preference the two reps can establish a rep number that splits the income the account generates into any percentage they would like to use.

This is a merger that has the less respected firm buy the more respected firm and the lessons of the past do not apply.

This is a merger that has the less respected firm buy the more respected firm and the lessons of the past do not apply.

 This is a post written to a respected FA by an completely disreputable poser moron. The lessons he (the latter) attempts to impart do not apply.

I suggest that you actually talk to an institutional broker and then reconsider your opinion. I have talked to many and I don’t know of a one who is not at least looking if not in the final stage of leaving.

wow - you go away for a weekend and it all breaks loose here. Didn't anyone just go out and enjoy the three day weekend with their families?

Okay back to business. I was with AGE for 20 years, left in May (pre-merger) Don't remember the last time I didn't make President's or Chairman's and was a BOM for nearly a decade. That being said I don't traffic in rumor or inuendo. What the merger has done is force a lot of folks to re-examine their business model and take control of it. Second largest means nothing to 100% of my clients. My folks want to know how they will be treated by me and the firm I affiliate with, period.

So the following is directly from inside from a trusted friend intimately involved in the merger.

1) Technically it may be a merger; but Home Office folks feel like its more of a takeover. (re:back office job losses)

2) Best practices so far has meant WS wins all ties. To date not a single AGE policy has taken precedence over a WS. (don't expect the same generous 401(k) contribution you've grown accustomed to.)

3) Since the date of the merger announcement 270 FCs have left. On average 30-35 a week.

4) Regional Management re-alignment is coming in the next 45 days, perhaps as early as Sept. 15th. Who stays and who goes should be very interesting. Current AGE Regionals are particularly vulnerable because WS/AGE is not going to sit around and wait for another John Lee event. It only makes sense  that they would want their folks in place to mind the store in the coming weeks and months.

5) The other shoe drops - in the coming weeks there will be some other big name defections regardless of the action taken against John Lee. (okay so that kinda borders on rumor - I'd like to say more but don't want to potentially injure those planning to leave)

6) If I were still there, I would be biding my time,  collecting two more fee-based months of production, my manager's bonus, and my FC sales bonus, and whatever 401(k) contribution they grant  - while putting together my exit strategy for March of '08. Time is your ally in a move such as this and who knows maybe you will like the new company - I wouldn't have.

 I could not be happier that I left when I did. My move was certainly of the 80/20 variety and we've kept over 90% of our revenue base. Having spent nearly my entire career there, it was tough to go, but if I had the choice I would absolutely do it exactly the same way again.

Best wishes to those who stay or decide to leave. Tough to go wrong if your client is foremost in your decision-making process.

Rj hired 2 big AGE Reps.  The first was an AGE rep from the Houson area with 425mm in assets.  The second began his career at AGE in 1977 and has over 150mm in assets.

When this all started WB stated they would not loose more than 3% of AGE reps.  Here we are 90 DAYS after the announcement and AGE has lost about 4%+-.

Here is another idea.  If I were to leave my firm today for WB the would ask me to sign a 7 year contract and pay me about 120% package.  Why would someone at AGE "sign" an 11 year contract for 1/2 of that???????????

If you are at AGE and not currently at least TALKING to area branch managers from MS, UBS, ML, RJ or whoemever you are an idiot.

Hey Tarpon, an idiot is someone who spells lose "loose". Also, I think the exact wording was 3% "regrettable" attrition. And no, I don't have a big kool-aid moustache.

I am not talking to these bozo recruiters/managers until I want to move. How are they going to differentiate themselves other than the upfront bonus money%?

The thing about using the term “regrettable attrition” is you can define it any

way you want. I have seen several departures from AGE in the STL area in

recent weeks and only one was below club level.

Hey, if I leave WB, they would probably not regret my attrition.  However, I am sticking.

Dudes, I am just bored and am interested to hear what other AGE guys are saying. It's funny how WB fc's could give a flying you-know-what about all of this. I think the guy who posted something to the effect of "do what's right for the client" said it best. To jump now, how do you know if A is better than B (stolen from a prominent AGE FC course).

GG,
 As you may recall, I’m an AGE guy who is not staying. I plan to go indy very early next year. WB may well be a good fit for many AGE brokers. I think those for whom it will be the best fit are those who have more of a wirehouse mentality to begin with. Wachovia Securities is now a wirehouse. Any debate on this subject is semantic at best.  I’m sure you’ll prosper at WB if your heart is in it. I, personally, can’t get behind the idea of a pay cut (at my production level (@$310 T12 midway through year 6), indy-sized ticket charges, and almost double minimum ticket amount for payout.

[quote=Gordon Gekko]

Hey, if I leave WB, they would probably not regret my attrition.  However, I am sticking.

Dudes, I am just bored and am interested to hear what other AGE guys are saying. It's funny how WB fc's could give a flying you-know-what about all of this. I think the guy who posted something to the effect of "do what's right for the client" said it best. To jump now, how do you know if A is better than B (stolen from a prominent AGE FC course).

[quote=shredder][quote=Gordon Gekko]

Hey, if I leave WB, they would probably not regret my attrition.  However, I am sticking.

Dudes, I am just bored and am interested to hear what other AGE guys are saying. It's funny how WB fc's could give a flying you-know-what about all of this. I think the guy who posted something to the effect of "do what's right for the client" said it best. To jump now, how do you know if A is better than B (stolen from a prominent AGE FC course).

[/quote] [/quote]

Sorry about previous message, operator error. Couldn't agree more.  We have until Feb 2009 to make an INFORMED decision. One not based on opinion and innuedo.

With all due respect for the gentleman from New York, how can you stay at “A” when you know so little about it.



If a firm tried to lure you away from your current firm but could not
tell you how you would get paid or what the products and services would
be or even if your branch would even exist in a few months, how would
you respond?

Once again we dont know any of the items you mentioned…payout, ticket charges etc…jump now before you know makes no sense…again I say wait to see what happens, get one more 401k depsosit, bonus, take a year or so of the loan bonus and gather and prepare clients for a potential move and take a check then…if things work out to your liking you can still stay and pick up clients from those that jumped ship prematurely…that is still my take…there is no fire…well unless u listen to the recruiters…sounds like you bought what they are selling hook lne and sinker…a year from now assuming AUM and prod growth you will get a bigger package a year of AGE payout and some of the loan bonus.