Whan an Annuity?

Jul 17, 2005 7:39 pm

This is supposed to be a learning forum.  It would be fun for one
of the insurance types to explain to the stockbroker types when an
annuity is the appropriate product for a client to buy.




Jul 17, 2005 8:29 pm

[quote=Put Trader]This is supposed to be a learning forum.  It would be fun for one of the insurance types to explain to the stockbroker types when an annuity is the appropriate product for a client to buy.


[/quote]

When you get an insurance license, we'll share that with you.

Jul 17, 2005 8:35 pm

[quote=annuity guy]

[quote=Put Trader]This is supposed to be a
learning forum.  It would be fun for one of the insurance types to
explain to the stockbroker types when an annuity is the appropriate
product for a client to buy.


[/quote]

When you get an insurance license, we'll share that with you.

[/quote]

Pretend I'm a client.  The question does not require a license, all I asked was when an annuity is an appropriate product for the client.

Surely there is a situation where an annuity is better than anything else available to the client?  I understand that in your limited world an annuity is all you can shove down the client's throat--but is that action every the absolulte best choice of all the products that the client could buy?
Jul 17, 2005 8:38 pm

It’s best because it’s what I believe in the most.

Jul 17, 2005 8:40 pm

[quote=annuity guy]It’s best because it’s what I believe in the most. [/quote]



But what about what is best for the client?  Do you insurance types not give a schidt about your clients?

Jul 17, 2005 8:57 pm

The subaccounts in the annuity that I use produce returns that are superior to retail mutual funds, the indices, and stocks. The only thing better is what YOU do for YOUR clients. My clients are more interested in putting more money in their pockets than what got them there.

I will concede, however, that many annuities suck. If you're gonna use mutual fund subaccounts that underperform the market, an annuity makes no sense. I've seen people sell the guarantees as the reason to buy the annuities. In my opinion, the guarantees are a waste of money.

Jul 17, 2005 9:02 pm

[quote=annuity guy]

The subaccounts in the annuity that I use
produce returns that are superior to retail mutual funds, the indices,
and stocks. The only thing better is what YOU do for YOUR
clients. My clients are more interested in putting more money in their
pockets than what got them there.

I will concede, however, that many annuities suck. If you're gonna use mutual fund subaccounts that underperform the market, an annuity makes no sense. I've seen people sell the guarantees as the reason to buy the annuities. In my opinion, the guarantees are a waste of money.

[/quote]

Gosh you'd think that such a great annuity would be known to somebody besides you--whose is it?

If the guarantees associated with an annuity is a waste of time what is the benefit?
Jul 17, 2005 9:07 pm

[quote=Put Trader] [quote=annuity guy]

The subaccounts in the annuity that I use produce returns that are superior to retail mutual funds, the indices, and stocks. The only thing better is what YOU do for YOUR clients. My clients are more interested in putting more money in their pockets than what got them there.

I will concede, however, that many annuities suck. If you're gonna use mutual fund subaccounts that underperform the market, an annuity makes no sense. I've seen people sell the guarantees as the reason to buy the annuities. In my opinion, the guarantees are a waste of money.

[/quote]

Gosh you'd think that such a great annuity would be known to somebody besides you--whose is it?

If the guarantees associated with an annuity is a waste of time what is the benefit?
[/quote]

It's known to a lot of people. It was the best selling VA in 2004.

Read my last post, again, for the benefit.

Jul 17, 2005 9:11 pm

One more thing…you are boring me to death. I’m not interested in selling you on the idea of variable annuities. I love what I do and I make more money than I can spend. It doesn’t get any better than that.  I’m done on this thread.

Jul 17, 2005 9:11 pm

Best selling where?  I have a feeling it’s in the corners of your mind.



In any case, are you saying that the best selling VA had side funds that were exceptional performers?

Jul 17, 2005 9:27 pm

I put my clients into variable, fixed or equity indexed annuities when it may be appropriate.  I consider that the circumstances, needs and time horizon of each as an individual case.

For variable annuities the client needs to be very aware of the extra costs for the benefits and guarantees and wiegh the value of the benefits against the loss of performance of the subaccounts if they were held outside of the annuity.  Some benefits and downsides are:

Death guarantee: beneficary will recieve at least return of principle, or a step up in value to the highest quarterly or annual anniversary of the contrat, the current market value or a predetermined compounded rate (5 to 7%) whichever is greater.  May or may not be a benefit to the beneficary if the gain in the contract is too high and they are in a higher tax bracket.  If wealth transfer is the aim, then life insurance, if they can qualify, is a much better vehicle for that goal.

Living benefits: for those clients who plan to take an income stream from their annuity in the future and want to hedge their bets against poor market performance. For example if you hold the contract for 10 years and then annuitize over a 10 yr or longer period you will annuitize the lump sum of the greatest of those items listed in the death benefit.  So if the market goes to hell in a handbasket and you hold the contract for 10 years you can be guaranteed to have an amount to annuitize that is approximately twice your original deposit (rule of 72 at 7% guarantee)

Controlled payout:  clients with kids that are flakes, have untrustworthy spouses or have handicapped children like this benefit. You can predetermine that your beneficary will NOT get a lump sum, but rather an income stream for a predetermined period of time or life span.  Some people don't have trusts with formal trustees or other legal means of doing this.  Sometimes they do have a trust but it is one of those schlocky insurance scam trust mill pieces of crap that accomplish next to nothing.

Tax deferral: obviously this is not necessarily always a benefit, as the deferred capital gains (that are taxed at a lower rate now) are treated as ordinary income when distributed.  However for a high net worth client who has maximized his retirement plan caps and still wants to put large (note I said large) sums aside for future retirement income stream this can be a good tax strategy.

Some of the companies offer a bonus for deposits in the first few years, but you need to watch out for those and examine them closely because the internal costs (m&e and benefit charges) are higher and essentially negate the bonus effect.

Fixed annuities are a joke right now because the rates are so low. A client would be better off in a short term bond or even a cd at these rates.  Equity indexed annuities are really only good for those extremely risk adverse clients who want to take a chance on the upside of the index(s) without having risk of losses.  Frankly right now I don't think that they are a very good idea right now as the internal guaranteed rate of return is less than a bond or cd and they have extremely long surrender periods as a rule.  There are some exceptions to this, but then the participation in the market cap or gain is very much reduced.

Thanks for asking 

Jul 17, 2005 9:37 pm

Putsy, you are the millionaire Forex Gump found cutting the lawn at the
local college. He was the hero on the grid-iron, in the foxhole, and
leading the flock cross-crountry in search of their own smiley faith.
Maybe because you were gifted with a higher IQ, the irony of your story
turns out to be whom you chose to love. Forrest longed for his Jenny
and stayed the course. You chose a career and stayed the course. What
do you call the result of your tempestuous love affair with her? I am
hopeful that at some point you’ll smile at the memories and wish others
well with their own.



I can share again with you something I noticed that struck me as
different between you and the Forrests of the world (this is the see
the tree opportunity): They don’t judge themselves by what others
think. Sure they get their feelings hurt. Others will succomb to life’s
axe. It’s their capacity to measure themselves against the gift of the
moment that I admire. 



Putsy, you were dumb not to play the game with me. Don’t be a fool and
assume that I expected you to take the bait. No hooks bubba, I brought
the shrimp traps for you.



I know your momma didn’t raise no fool, so stop being so stupid with
your compulsions. As Forrest’s momma said “Stupid is as stupid does.”








Jul 17, 2005 9:38 pm

[quote=babbling looney]Fixed annuities are a joke right now because the rates are so low. A client would be better off in a short term bond or even a cd at these rates.  [/quote]

I'm putting new money into a Fixed Annuity crediting 5.38%, with top ratings (A++, Aa1, AAA).

Jul 17, 2005 9:47 pm

I'm putting new money into a Fixed Annuity crediting 5.38%, with top ratings (A++, Aa1, AAA

Name it.   I'll bet it is one with a bonus up front, and you are quoting the yield for the entire contract to term and not the actual crediting rate.  Also what is the surrender schedule?  If it is anything over 5 years, you have just locked your client into a subpar interest rate in a rising interest rate environment and no way for them to get out of the contract without surrender charges.

You will have some very angry clients in a few years when they can get 6% on a short term cd or quality bond and then they are stuck with a sucking 4.5% crediting rate with limited liquidity.  I know.  I had pissed of clients in the early 90's and I will never never fall into that trap again.  Sure it is easy to make the sale now because 5% looks good......now.

Never sell the rate.

Jul 17, 2005 9:54 pm

Note the four responses.



1. Annuity guy says annuties are best because it’s what he can sell.



2. BabblingLooney makes a sales presentation of sorts, filled with good points–some debateable, but good nonetheless.



3. Mojo tells a story about Forrest Gump



4. picks up on BabblingLooney’s point that fixed annuities are stupid, and announces that he sells fixed annuities.





Jul 17, 2005 10:05 pm

[quote=babbling looney] Name it.   [/quote]

If you really knew annuities, you'd know the company. 

Yes, there is a 1% premium credit, but that is NOT reflected in the current yield, which I stated. That current yield is credited to 101% of the premium paid in the first year.

Jul 17, 2005 10:07 pm

That current yield is credited to 101% of the premium paid in the first year.

Ah... I see... an equity indexed annuity.

Jul 17, 2005 10:11 pm

[quote=babbling looney]Never sell the rate.[/quote]

You're making another systematic error, because of your judgemental heuristics.

I always sell the rate. Current yield, yield to maturity at current rates, and yield to maturity at guaranteed rates, after intensive due diligence on historical crediting in comparison to the industry as a whole, and alternative investments in similar risk classes (i.e., CDs).

My firm's been in business since 1922. We've never had to apologize to a client, but several of the founders wrote the book on due diligence.

I've never had to apologize to a client personally for any fixed annuity I sold them (and I was selling them when current yields were in double digits....what were you doing then?).

Jul 17, 2005 10:13 pm

[quote=babbling looney]Ah... I see... an equity indexed annuity. [/quote]

Nope. Not even close. The design is much older than 36 years (the age of the oldest index linked annuity contract). This design has been around over 100 years. There weren't any indices back then, sugar.

Jul 17, 2005 10:26 pm

I try to avoid women who Cannot Understand Normal Thinking, but I do enjoy pulling the carpet out from under them.


She's more challenging than puttyndacrack, and she knows more than he ever has, she just doesn't know how much she doesn't know yet. It's a common characteristic of youth. He's just an old fossil that awaits his burial. The time fast approaches for him, I think. People with that much hatred in their heart rarely make it to life expectancy.

Jul 17, 2005 10:47 pm

[quote=Put Trader]Note the four responses.



1. Annuity guy says annuties are best because it’s what he can sell.



2. BabblingLooney makes a sales presentation of sorts, filled with good points–some debateable, but good nonetheless.



3. Mojo tells a story about Forrest Gump



4. picks up on BabblingLooney’s point that fixed annuities are stupid, and announces that he sells fixed annuities.





[/quote]



Putsy, your question is a sucker’s bet. You’re lucky I at least gave

you a nice story. BabblingLooney gave it to you from her encyclopedia

of knowledge. It was a polite answer to a stupid question.



Fedex me all the usual doc’s for your personal finances (we’ll provide

you a “new client” package with specific details) and my team will

review your current situation. We will make a decision and respond

within 48 hours if there is likely to be a good fit for the both

of us working together for the long-term future. In the mean

time, we will both have time to determine if our attitudes work well

together, while we get to know each other.



It would take three people about 8 hours each to identify whether this

individual fits our criteria for an ideal client. It takes longer if we

are talking about a family office or most privately held companies. An

annuity is not an unusual request from individual clients. We take the

wide-angle lense approach and try to accept or reject it as a good fit.





There you are Putsy, two different answers to the same stupid question.



Gameboy, it appears your life energy points still need replenishing

after the spanking and scare I gave you at the end of last week. You

are somewhere above a peep-show and below a silent film for style

points. I think I’ll need to turn on the sat radio to keep the whole

thing working.



Thanks for all the laughs.

Jul 17, 2005 11:30 pm

Note the responses:



Ms. Looney suggests that, er Roger, is selling the highly questionable Equity Indexed Annuity.



Roger says she is wrong without explaining why, or what it is that he is claiming to sell if not an Equity Index Annuity.



The Annuity whore invents a word designed to insult women and tosses it

into the mix in his normal way–pulling all of his intellect together

into a six word sentence.



Then Mojo jumps in an volunteers to do something if I Fedex him my

financial statement. One wonders if he does not have a fax, or

the ability to receive .pdf files.



Yep, three insurance guys in search of a clue.



Jul 18, 2005 12:07 am

[quote=Put Trader] 
Then Mojo jumps in an volunteers to do something if I Fedex him my
financial statement.  One wonders if he does not have a fax, or
the ability to receive .pdf files.



Yep, three insurance guys in search of a clue.

[/quote]



Knobby Walsh, with your insurance license we could let one of the three
stooges take a nice siesta. I do need to check my shemp-traps.

Jul 18, 2005 12:19 am

[quote=Mojo]

[quote=Put Trader] 
Then Mojo jumps in an volunteers to do something if I Fedex him my
financial statement.  One wonders if he does not have a fax, or
the ability to receive .pdf files.



Yep, three insurance guys in search of a clue.

[/quote]



Knobby Walsh, with your insurance license we could let one of the three
stooges take a nice siesta. I do need to check my shemp-traps.

[/quote]



Let me tell you something Mojo.  In your crazed attempt to better
me, or to be funny (whatever it is) you’re trying way too hard.



I’m very bright and the subject of your efforts and I don’t get it–no doubt those with even less interest don’t even try.

Jul 18, 2005 12:25 am

Note, the Note the responses:



Ha Ha. I am trying to figure out the voice of your character Putsy.
It’s a cross between Burl Ives (“Big Daddy” Politt)) and that guy who
did the intro for The Untouchables (TV) doing the lead up for each
episode.



I have a question I know you’ll like. It’s just around the corner. Easy
to answer. Hard to validate without the goods in hand. A real SVP show
stopper. Looks like you’re almost drunk enough to ask for it.

Jul 18, 2005 12:33 am

[quote=Mojo]Note, the Note the responses:



Ha Ha. I am trying to figure out the voice of your character Putsy.
It’s a cross between Burl Ives (“Big Daddy” Politt)) and that guy who
did the intro for The Untouchables (TV) doing the lead up for each
episode.



I have a question I know you’ll like. It’s just around the corner. Easy
to answer. Hard to validate without the goods in hand. A real SVP show
stopper. Looks like you’re almost drunk enough to ask for it.

[/quote]



See what I’m talking about–I’m the subject, I have a vested interest
in grasping what you’re trying to say and I just don’t grok it.



It’s really bad message boarding when one of the posters is incapable of getting the other to understand–try English.

Jul 18, 2005 12:54 am

[quote=Put Trader] I'm very bright [/quote]

Bright people don't need to tell everyone, because everyone can tell just by reading what they write.

Nobody thinks puttyndacrack is bright. He's just another raisin faced bigot that is on the December end of a pathetic existence.

Jul 18, 2005 12:57 am

Most my posts are basically background chatter.



For most people, the reasons they come to boards like these is to
relax, commiserate, and indulge in some basic easy exchanges or
commentary. Your rap is redundant. Each scratch only exaggerates your
tainted opinions. I think people enjoy my psycho-babble and the liberal
public spankings I give you. If you don’t get it, who cares. Most
people don’t “get” you either. I am providing  some balance to
your posturing.  I’ll give you a  little tip Putsy: You and I
both know that we wont be here much longer. I bet you a slice of pie
that I leave before you do.




Jul 18, 2005 12:59 am

[quote=Mojo]Most my posts are basically background chatter.

For most people, the reasons they come to boards like these is to relax, commiserate, and indulge in some basic easy exchanges or commentary. Your rap is redundant. Each scratch only exaggerates your tainted opinions. I think people enjoy my psycho-babble and the liberal public spankings I give you. If you don't get it, who cares. Most people don't "get" you either. I am providing  some balance to your posturing.  I'll give you a  little tip Putsy: You and I both know that we wont be here much longer. I bet you a slice of pie that I leave before you do.


[/quote]

Do you have cancer or something?

Jul 18, 2005 1:12 am

Nope. I am just giving him something to add to his fantasy island
episode this evening. I am waiting for the night he overdoses on the
slow-gin (or dementia to advance) and the probable posts as Marcus
Welby, MD, complaining about HMO’s and the caliber of doctors today to
start showing up. His bedside manner should be worth keeping around for
next season. 

Jul 18, 2005 1:26 am

[quote=Mojo]



I bet you a slice of pie
that I leave before you do.



[/quote]



Ah, a wager made in heaven.



Before you go be sure to let us know what you think of writing things
like “Booty Call” and putting links to your professional website on the
page?



Is that the mark of a professional in your opinion?

Jul 18, 2005 1:51 am

When <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />the client doesn’t feel comfortable in a managed portfolio, and wants or needs the guarantees.  

<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

It’s a love hate thing with annuities but I use them. I don’t like the tax issues, and not being able to get the money if the market goes down. You should be able to plan around any CDSC I think most who buy them don’t understand all the moving parts and or the rep who sold them. Certainly older clients that are utilizing strategic methodologies vs say tactical might be suitable.  

Current market conditions i.e. flat yield curve the market is just unwilling to take more risk for long term to get say 4.3 when the can get 3.8 short term. I don’t believe the flat curve is actually indicating bad times ahead rather an anomaly maybe sentiment is having a greater effect than we care to realize.

Jul 18, 2005 2:36 am

[quote=Put Trader] Before you go be sure to let us know what you think of writing things like "Booty Call" and putting links to your professional website on the page?[/quote]

It sounds like poor ol' puttyndacrack has never had a booty call in his life. I am not surprised. People who exhibit as much negativity as putty does aren't on the speed dial of hot chicks. He's not on the speed dial of anyone, actually. He's just a poor ol' crusty raisin, waiting to die.

Jul 18, 2005 4:09 am

Why is everybody concerned with the yield on annuities?  How about doing some planning with annuities?  Do a Google search for "insurance", "annuity", and "arbitrage".

Pikers...

Jul 18, 2005 4:48 am

[quote=Put Trader]

[quote=Mojo]



I bet you a slice of pie
that I leave before you do.



[/quote]



Ah, a wager made in heaven.



Before you go be sure to let us know what you think of writing things
like “Booty Call” and putting links to your professional website on the
page?



Is that the mark of a professional in your opinion?

[/quote]



Putsy, quid pro quo?



I agree to answer your question honestly and you agree to answer mine
with complete candor. Simplicity. No smoke and no mirrors. Just plain
english. We could ask Sra. Loony if she would agree to pick a number
between one and one hundred. The closest to the number gets to chose
who goes first. Or we could default to the old standard “Beauty before
age.”




Jul 18, 2005 4:49 am

[quote=menotellname]Why is everybody concerned with the yield on annuities?  How about doing some planning with annuities?  Do a Google search for “insurance”, “annuity”, and “arbitrage”.

Pikers...[/quote]

I'm not concerned. It is what it is.

The search you mention will pull up sites that discuss mortality swaps. I've been doing those for years, when they made sense.

I first learned of them from one of the books that really changed my practice, well over a decade ago.

Jul 18, 2005 5:30 am

[quote=menotellname]

Why is everybody concerned with the yield on
annuities?  How about doing some planning with annuities?  Do
a Google search for “insurance”, “annuity”, and “arbitrage”.

Pikers...

[/quote]

Why is everyone so concerned about the disproportionate amount of blacks in non-combat units? How about doing some urban planning? Do a Google search for "gay marriage", "Civil Liberties Act of 1964", and "HIV/AIDS and Down Low."

Mensa (Senorita, mis amigos le encantan escuchar su nombre en espanol - Muchas gracias "genius")...

Buena suerte.
Jul 18, 2005 11:02 am

[quote=Mojo]



I agree to answer your question honestly and you agree to answer mine
with complete candor.



[/quote]



As I have said before, I am not going to engage in a game of twenty questions, or even one question, designed as a "Gotcha."



What is on the table is a question regarding your sense of
professionalism.  What is also on the table is my answer to the
same question.



Essentially all I am asking is if you agree with me or not. 
Surely you’re able to come up with something along those lines–it’s
not that hard, you either do or your don’t.



How about this.  If you can explain how linking your business
practice to something such as that “Booty Call” piece is a sign of a
mature, clear thinking, adult let me know–otherwise I will conclude
that you too agree that it’s anything but a sign of mature, clear,
thinking adult.



Fair enough?

Jul 18, 2005 11:09 am

[quote=Mojo]
slow-gin 
[/quote]



It’s “Sloe Gin” and damn does it bring back memories of The Cutest
Little Thing In The Metroplex, a yellow 1965 Impalla convertible, and
lonely Texas roads late at night.



Or was it the honest to God nympho with a Rambler that had front seats that laid back all the way to the back seat?



When they say you can never go back, it’s both factual and a damn shame.

Jul 18, 2005 1:11 pm

[quote=Mojo] [quote=menotellname]

Why is everybody concerned with the yield on annuities?  How about doing some planning with annuities?  Do a Google search for "insurance", "annuity", and "arbitrage".

Pikers...

[/quote]

Why is everyone so concerned about the disproportionate amount of blacks in non-combat units? How about doing some urban planning? Do a Google search for "gay marriage", "Civil Liberties Act of 1964", and "HIV/AIDS and Down Low."

Mensa (Senorita, mis amigos le encantan escuchar su nombre en espanol - Muchas gracias "genius")...

Buena suerte.
[/quote]

...said the white male, racist, homophobic.

Jul 18, 2005 1:28 pm

[quote=Put Trader]

[quote=menotellname]

...said the white male, racist, homophobic.

[/quote]


Why are "They" so intellectually vacant that all they can muster is "Why you be a racist dats what you be?"
[/quote]

I had to handle something in Detroit--sorry for the half assed post.

Mojo was mocking you, numbnuts.  Why is it that stupid people always kneejerk react like you did?
Jul 18, 2005 1:51 pm

[quote=Put Trader] [quote=Put Trader] [quote=menotellname]

...said the white male, racist, homophobic.

[/quote]


Why are "They" so intellectually vacant that all they can muster is "Why you be a racist dats what you be?"
[/quote]

I had to handle something in Detroit--sorry for the half assed post.

Mojo was mocking you, numbnuts.  Why is it that stupid people always kneejerk react like you did?
[/quote]

modern psychology shows that affect is actually highly regular and that it is cognition that introduces unpredictability into behavior. Unconscious behaviors generally occur in fully predictable patterns unless consciousness overrides them. As a result, humans are less predictable than rats. 

Jul 18, 2005 2:05 pm

Why is everybody concerned with the yield on annuities?  How about doing some planning with annuities?

The problem is that many insurance agents and some brokers who are desperate to make sales will sell the rate, instead of the benefits or planning uses, because it is easy.  The clients, especially the older ones who are also desperate right now for income, hear the rate and take the hook. 

Mortality swaps have nothing to do with this topic of why and when an agent would offer an annuity to clients. Roger's tactics when confused about how to conduct a logical discussion is to throw irrelevant terminoligy into the air.  ........I swear to God, the next time I watch North By Northwest, I'm rooting for the plane to take off Cary Grants head.

There are plenty of appropriate situations to recommend annuities and many more when it is not appropriate. In case no one remembers, this is the rookie sub-board.  It's too bad that a discussion that could have been of value has descended into insults, pull my finger jokes and now racism. 

Jul 18, 2005 2:15 pm

[quote=menotellname]

modern psychology shows
that affect is actually highly regular and that it is cognition that
introduces unpredictability into behavior. Unconscious behaviors
generally occur in fully predictable patterns unless consciousness
overrides them. As a result, humans are less predictable than rats.
 

[/quote]



What does that mean?  Surely you’re not saying that you object to the fact that humans are less predicatable than rats?
Jul 18, 2005 2:15 pm

[quote=babbling looney]Mortality swaps have nothing to do with this topic of why and when an agent would offer an annuity to clients.[/quote]

First, Meno brougth it up, not I, which makes you a woman who Cannot Understand Normal Thinking.

Second, the fact that you don't see how these subjects intertwine proves that you don't even know what a mortality swap is (and I'm not surprised, you've probably never heard of them, much less designed them and implemented them -- something I've been doing since long before the ink on your license was dry).

Perhaps you should go back to the bank from whence you came, little girl.

Jul 18, 2005 2:21 pm

[quote=Roger Thornhill]

(and I’m not surprised, you’ve probably

never heard of them, much less designed them and implemented them –

something I’ve been doing since long before the ink on your license was

dry).



[/quote]



Your webpage–it’s not even a real website–says that you’re 35 years

old. That would me that AT BEST you’ve been “around” since the

early 1990s.



Nothing but a bull market in life–the old gag line, “He was born on third base and thought he hit a triple.”

Jul 18, 2005 2:33 pm

the fact that you don't see how these subjects intertwine

Then why don't you 'splain it to us O Enlightened One.  How do mortality swaps and hedging mortality risk on a corporate and pension plan level affect the average agent in his/her recommendation and suitability review in the sales process.  When should average Joe agent take into consideration and explain what an insurance companies arbitrage of mortality risk is to Ma and Pa Fricket who are contemplating investing their life savings?  How will this impact their decision?

Jul 18, 2005 2:36 pm

[quote=Roger Thornhill]

First, Meno brougth it up, not I, which makes you a woman who Cannot Understand Normal Thinking.

[/quote]

Isn't it time for the moderator to step in an delete this post, and perhaps ban Roger?

Jul 18, 2005 2:38 pm

[quote=Put Trader] [quote=Roger Thornhill]

(and I’m not surprised, you’ve probably never heard of them, much less designed them and implemented them – something I’ve been doing since long before the ink on your license was dry).



[/quote]Your webpage–it’s not even a real website–says that you’re 35 years old. That would me that AT BEST you’ve been “around” since the early 1990s.Nothing but a bull market in life–the old gag line, “He was born on third base and thought he hit a triple.”[/quote]



His online CV says he “began his career in the financial services industry” (READ: started making coffee in Dad’s office) in 1991. The piker’s not only a liar, he’s a newbie liar.

Jul 18, 2005 2:55 pm

[quote=stanwbrown][quote=Put Trader] [quote=Roger Thornhill]

(and I’m not surprised, you’ve probably never heard of them, much less designed them and implemented them – something I’ve been doing since long before the ink on your license was dry).



[/quote]Your webpage–it’s not even a real website–says that you’re 35 years old. That would me that AT BEST you’ve been “around” since the early 1990s.Nothing but a bull market in life–the old gag line, “He was born on third base and thought he hit a triple.”[/quote]



His online CV says he “began his career in the financial services industry” (READ: started making coffee in Dad’s office) in 1991. The piker’s not only a liar, he’s a newbie liar.



[/quote]



Does your manager at Morgan Stanley know that you spend all day playing on the internet?

Jul 18, 2005 3:23 pm

[quote=annuity guy][quote=stanwbrown][quote=Put Trader] [quote=Roger Thornhill]

(and I’m not surprised, you’ve probably never heard of them, much less designed them and implemented them – something I’ve been doing since long before the ink on your license was dry).



[/quote]Your webpage–it’s not even a real website–says that you’re 35 years old. That would me that AT BEST you’ve been “around” since the early 1990s.Nothing but a bull market in life–the old gag line, “He was born on third base and thought he hit a triple.”[/quote]



His online CV says he “began his career in the financial services industry” (READ: started making coffee in Dad’s office) in 1991. The piker’s not only a liar, he’s a newbie liar.



[/quote]



Does your manager at Morgan Stanley know that you spend all day playing on the internet?



[/quote]





He sure does, Roger. And so does my manager at Merrill and my manager at Smith Barney, and my manager at UBS.



So, Roger, did you have a point?

Jul 18, 2005 3:31 pm

[quote=stanwbrown][quote=annuity guy][quote=stanwbrown][quote=Put Trader] [quote=Roger Thornhill]

(and I'm not surprised, you've probably never heard of them, much less designed them and implemented them -- something I've been doing since long before the ink on your license was dry).

[/quote]

Your webpage--it's not even a real website--says that you're 35 years old.  That would me that AT BEST you've been "around" since the early 1990s.

Nothing but a bull market in Brent's life--the old gag line, "He was born on third base and thought he hit a triple."
[/quote]

His online CV says he "began his career in the financial services industry" (READ: started making coffee in Dad's office) in 1991. The piker's not only a liar, he's a newbie liar.

[/quote]

Does your manager at Morgan Stanley know that you spend all day playing on the internet?

[/quote]

He sure does, Roger. And so does my manager at Merrill and my manager at Smith Barney, and my manager at UBS. 

So, Roger, did you have a point?

[/quote]

It's funny. Your IP address says nothing about ML, SB, or UBS. Only MS. I'm sure your manager is going to be proud when he sees how many posts you've done from the firm's server.

Jul 18, 2005 3:48 pm

[quote=Put Trader]

[quote=Mojo]



I agree to answer your question honestly and you agree to answer mine
with complete candor.



[/quote]



As I have said before, I am not going to engage in a game of twenty questions, or even one question, designed as a "Gotcha.“



What is on the table is a question regarding your sense of
professionalism.  What is also on the table is my answer to the
same question.



Essentially all I am asking is if you agree with me or not. 
Surely you’re able to come up with something along those lines–it’s
not that hard, you either do or your don’t.



How about this.  If you can explain how linking your business
practice to something such as that “Booty Call” piece is a sign of a
mature, clear thinking, adult let me know–otherwise I will conclude
that you too agree that it’s anything but a sign of mature, clear,
thinking adult.



Fair enough?

[/quote]



Yes. Fair enough.



I don’t completely understand the “Booty Call” link reference. I know
what a booty call is. If there is a place on the internet where one can
go and line up to make and recieve a “booty call” it should be a
runaway success. Why it would be linked to a professional website? It
doesn’t bother me enough to point, click and search to find out. You,
and your sycophantically motivated team, seem to be on the job cranking
out the details for the “white paper” - (a present for our resident
Senorita Mensa) - I look forward to what hopes to be a good read. Be
sure to reward the minions - maybe a night at a local rest stop, some
"sloe-gin”, and one classic Texas Rambler would be appropriate for a
deserving flock (please don’t send any white papers).



My sense of professionalism would not be found on a table that includes
a meal of stuffed-chickensheet, brandied duck and goose-livered pute’
dishes that serve to reconcile or satisfy a hunger for "outing"
someone.




Jul 18, 2005 3:49 pm

Annuity Guy,

Stanwbrowneye thinks I'm you, or you're me, or maybe he's just high.

Jul 18, 2005 3:55 pm

[quote=annuity guy][quote=stanwbrown][quote=annuity guy][quote=stanwbrown][quote=Put Trader] [quote=Roger Thornhill]

(and I'm not surprised, you've probably never heard of them, much less designed them and implemented them -- something I've been doing since long before the ink on your license was dry).

[/quote]

Your webpage--it's not even a real website--says that you're 35 years old.  That would me that AT BEST you've been "around" since the early 1990s.

Nothing but a bull market in Brent's life--the old gag line, "He was born on third base and thought he hit a triple."
[/quote]

His online CV says he "began his career in the financial services industry" (READ: started making coffee in Dad's office) in 1991. The piker's not only a liar, he's a newbie liar.

[/quote]

Does your manager at Morgan Stanley know that you spend all day playing on the internet?

[/quote]

He sure does, Roger. And so does my manager at Merrill and my manager at Smith Barney, and my manager at UBS. 

So, Roger, did you have a point?

[/quote]

It's funny. Your IP address says nothing about ML, SB, or UBS. Only MS. I'm sure your manager is going to be proud when he sees how many posts you've done from the firm's server.

[/quote]

Sure, Roger, you have my IP address AND it details where I am. Does it physically hurt to be such a putz, or is it just a constant dull headache sort of thing?

BTW, you figure doing this sort of thing causes people to forget your multiple personas and your "I get 7.5%" sense of ethics?

Jul 18, 2005 4:02 pm

[quote=menotellname][quote=Mojo] [quote=menotellname]

Why is everybody concerned with the yield on annuities?  How about doing some planning with annuities?  Do a Google search for "insurance", "annuity", and "arbitrage".

Pikers...

[/quote]

Why is everyone so concerned about the disproportionate amount of blacks in non-combat units? How about doing some urban planning? Do a Google search for "gay marriage", "Civil Liberties Act of 1964", and "HIV/AIDS and Down Low."

Mensa (Senorita, mis amigos le encantan escuchar su nombre en espanol - Muchas gracias "genius")...

Buena suerte.
[/quote]

...said the white male, racist, homophobic.

[/quote]

said the white male - Nope. At the barbershop they use the TLC and say that Mojo should be called "Latin Lover" (Has anyone started a study to check Down Low tendencies in black rats?)

racist - Mensan, please.

homophobic - Not a chance, Hobson. I enjoy men of all races choosing to ogle my body. Don't you?
Jul 18, 2005 4:02 pm

You don’t even know who you’re responding to anymore. Senility is taking hold of your brain!

Jul 18, 2005 4:05 pm

[quote=stanwbrown]

Sure,

Roger, you have my IP address AND it details where I am. Does it

physically hurt to be such a putz, or is it just a constant dull

headache sort of thing?



BTW, you figure doing this sort of thing causes people to forget your multiple personas and your “I get 7.5%” sense of ethics?

[/quote]



I do think it would probably be a good idea to avoid the site–he may have the ability to back out your IP address and

start to stalk you in the real world.



Dealing with this guy is like unwrapping an onion–layer after layer of

the same thing. Roger Thornhill is Rick Blaine, who is also in the real world, who appears to also be Annuity Guy on this

forum.



That whole TGP website got started back in December. If you

started such a site you’d have a few friends “join” in order to give it

some gravitas–but what if those friends were not contributing?



Next you’d join yourself, again and again and hold dialogs with yourself.



Kill him Mommy, Kill him.



I will Jason, I will.



As for calling him a putz–please, that’s a name reserved for me.

Jul 18, 2005 4:06 pm

[quote=babbling looney]Then why don't you 'splain it to us O Enlightened One.  How do mortality swaps and hedging mortality risk on a corporate and pension plan level affect the average agent in his/her recommendation and suitability review in the sales process.  When should average Joe agent take into consideration and explain what an insurance companies arbitrage of mortality risk is to Ma and Pa Fricket who are contemplating investing their life savings?  How will this impact their decision?[/quote]

I was right, you don't even know what a mortality swap is. Now you're talking about pension plans, which have nothing to do with mortality swaps. This subject is beyond your ability at this stage of your career.

Jul 18, 2005 4:07 pm

[quote=Put Trader] [quote=stanwbrown]

Sure, Roger, you have my IP address AND it details where I am. Does it physically hurt to be such a putz, or is it just a constant dull headache sort of thing?



BTW, you figure doing this sort of thing causes people to forget your multiple personas and your “I get 7.5%” sense of ethics?



[/quote]I do think it would probably be a good idea to avoid the site–he may have the ability to back out your IP address and start to stalk you in the real world.Dealing with this guy is like unwrapping an onion–layer after layer of the same thing. Roger Thornhill is Rick Blaine, who is also in the real world, who appears to also be Annuity Guy on this forum.That whole TGP website got started back in December. If you started such a site you’d have a few friends “join” in order to give it some gravitas–but what if those friends were not contributing?Next you’d join yourself, again and again and hold dialogs with yourself.Kill him Mommy, Kill him.I will Jason, I will.As for calling him a putz–please, that’s a name reserved for me.[/quote]



I think putty and stan are one and the same. Now he, or she, or it, is messaging itself.

Jul 18, 2005 4:10 pm

[quote=Roger Thornhill]

[quote=babbling looney]Then why don’t you 'splain it to us O Enlightened One. How do

mortality swaps and hedging mortality risk on a corporate and pension

plan level affect the average agent in his/her recommendation and

suitability review in the sales process. When should average Joe

agent take into consideration and explain what an

insurance companies arbitrage of mortality risk is to Ma and Pa

Fricket who are contemplating investing their life savings? How

will this impact their decision?[/quote]



I was right, you don’t even know what a mortality swap is. Now

you’re talking about pension plans, which have nothing to do with

mortality swaps. This subject is beyond your ability at this stage of

your career.

[/quote]



Amazing–mind numbing stupidity prancing around as if it were admirable.



Ms. Looney says that mortality swaps have nothing to do with annuities

and the decisions that need to be based and asks er Roger, to

explain himself.



er Roger, comes back with “Mortality swaps have nothing to do

with annuities” and then suggests that Ms. Looney was wrong suggesting

that they did.

Jul 18, 2005 4:11 pm

[quote=Put Trader] [quote=stanwbrown]

Sure, Roger, you have my IP address AND it details where I am. Does it physically hurt to be such a putz, or is it just a constant dull headache sort of thing?

BTW, you figure doing this sort of thing causes people to forget your multiple personas and your "I get 7.5%" sense of ethics?

[/quote]

I do think it would probably be a good idea to avoid the Top Gun Producer site--he may have the ability to back out your IP address and start to stalk you in the real world.

[/quote]

It's too late. I'm not a stalker, but, if I were Stan,  I'd be looking over my shoulder for a call from the home office to his branch manager. In fact, I'd probably tell him BEFORE he gets the call.

Jul 18, 2005 4:14 pm

[quote=Put Trader] er Roger, comes back with "Mortality swaps have nothing to do with annuities" and then suggests that Ms. Looney was wrong suggesting that they did. [/quote]


Mortality swaps involve the purchase of an annuity, but they have nothing to do with pensions. I can see that puttyndacrack has zero knowledge of these plans, either. Maybe putty is the same person as the looney chick?


Either way, I'm not. You really should get off the crack pipe.

Jul 18, 2005 4:15 pm

[quote=annuity guy]

It’s too late. I’m not a stalker, but, if I

were Stan, I’d be looking over my shoulder for a call from

the home office to his branch manager. In fact, I’d probably tell

him BEFORE he gets the call.

[/quote]





Ah, so the other day Roger linked us all to that thing from

the Man Show that he put on the TGP website wannabe.



Now comes Annuity Guy volunteering to provide information from the

inner workings of the website–proving that he too is , hair helmet and all.



It’s weird and getting weirder.

Jul 18, 2005 4:17 pm
Roger Thornhill:

Either way, I’m not. You really should get off the crack pipe.



Not right this second, but in a moment you will be. Tell me, is Sybil there?
Jul 18, 2005 8:04 pm

Annuities:

This is my first post. After reading the content it will probably be my last. As for when is an Annuity right. It depends on many factors but first and foremost it's the client's aversion to Risk that makes it the best choice. As for the type of annuity to offer that is up to the client also.

What products do you know of that allows a person to participate in the upside of the market with no downside. Premier Dex has had an 8.35% average annual return for the past 10 years. You do the math.

 It all depends on what the client wants.

Jul 18, 2005 8:47 pm

[quote=annuity guy][quote=Put Trader] [quote=stanwbrown]

Sure, Roger, you have my IP address AND it details where I am. Does it physically hurt to be such a putz, or is it just a constant dull headache sort of thing?

BTW, you figure doing this sort of thing causes people to forget your multiple personas and your "I get 7.5%" sense of ethics?

[/quote]

I do think it would probably be a good idea to avoid the Top Gun Producer site--he may have the ability to back out your IP address and start to stalk you in the real world.

[/quote]

It's too late. I'm not a stalker, but, if I were Stan,  I'd be looking over my shoulder for a call from the home office to his branch manager. In fact, I'd probably tell him BEFORE he gets the call.

[/quote]

You're not a stalker, eh Roger? But you'd happily drop a dime on someone if they were to disagree with you on a website? Gee, just what would that make you, besides a low-life?

BTW, I'm soooooo scared. 

Jul 22, 2005 3:25 am

Wow.. This started as a good concept. Learning something from these threads, but it turned into a ego attack.

I think people should start talking more about investment, economics and series 7 instead of others.

Its so sad when people talk about others... Even more so when its posting bs on the internet.