UBS biz plan evaluation
Greetings,
I just finished a few stages of the inteview process with UBS (phone interview and in-branch testing). I am moving on the last two steps of the hiring process - branch interviews and business plan evaluation. Does anyone know much about that last requirement? What do they expect from that business plan? A biz plan can really vary in depth and complexity...
Any insight will be very helpful. Thanks in advance for your tips.
Goldfish go....
[quote=goldfish05]
Greetings,
I just finished a few stages of the inteview process with UBS (phone interview and in-branch testing). I am moving on the last two steps of the hiring process - branch interviews and business plan evaluation. Does anyone know much about that last requirement? What do they expect from that business plan? A biz plan can really vary in depth and complexity...
Any insight will be very helpful. Thanks in advance for your tips.
Goldfish go....
[/quote]Yep they will want to know how many rich friends and relatives you have that you can suck into their proprietary products before they fire you.......
Unfortunately that is incorrect. Possible CEG worldwide might Shed some light on the subject for you.
Good Luck they have some awesome Swiss chicks that work there.
Not much in the way of proprietary products although they have some impressive interpretations of the market as it relates to "value"
Lots of great articles on the CEG worldwide website. Thanks babyfat.
Regarding getting your rich friends and families, I don't think there is one single company that does not do that. The only difference is whether they would give you a fair price (i.e. salary) in return...
Thanks for both of your insights!!!
Goldfish go go
I had a phone interview, went into a branch now I have to do some testing. The chick that took care of me was sweet
[quote=joedabrkr]
[quote=goldfish05]
Greetings,
I just finished a few stages of the inteview process with UBS (phone interview and in-branch testing). I am moving on the last two steps of the hiring process - branch interviews and business plan evaluation. Does anyone know much about that last requirement? What do they expect from that business plan? A biz plan can really vary in depth and complexity...
Any insight will be very helpful. Thanks in advance for your tips.
Goldfish go....
[/quote]Yep they will want to know how many rich friends and relatives you have that you can suck into their proprietary products before they fire you.......
[/quote]
Do they hire regular folks that don't have many rich friends?
[quote=SaySo]
Do they hire regular folks that don’t have many rich friends?
[/quote]
That’s strike three.
The brutal, unvarnished, truth is that if you get an offer from any
major firm you should look at the man or woman who made that offer and
tell yourself that you’re looking at somebody who just made a hiring
mistake.
Strike one–you’re too young
Strike two–you have no selling track record
Strike three–you don’t know anybody with money
What part of this do you not get?
[quote=Put Trader] The brutal, unvarnished, truth is that if you get an offer from any major firm you should look at the man or woman who made that offer and tell yourself that you're looking at somebody who just made a hiring mistake.[/quote]
Just like every manager that hired you.
[quote=Put Trader] Strike one--you're too young[/quote]
You're too old. And just plain fugly.
[quote=Put Trader] Strike two--you have no selling track record[/quote]
Neither do you, putty boy. You're a failed planner.
[quote=Put Trader] Strike three--you don't know anybody with money[/quote]
Neither do you. The men you see while watching TV at your adult day care center don't count.
[quote=Put Trader] What part of this do you not get?
[/quote]
Have you ever actually sold anything, puttyndacrack? (selling your soul to the devil doesn't count)
Roger,
In order to disagree with me you have to believe that being young is not a disadvantage. Is that your position?
In order to disagree with me you have to believe that having zero sales
experience is not a disadvantage. Is that your position?
In order to disagree with me you have to believe that the absence of a network is an advantage. Is that your position?
Are you incapable of grasping how ridiculous you are?
[quote=Put Trader]Roger,In order to disagree with me you have to believe that being young is not a disadvantage. Is that your position?In order to disagree with me you have to believe that having zero sales experience is not a disadvantage. Is that your position?In order to disagree with me you have to believe that the absence of a network is an advantage. Is that your position?Are you incapable of grasping how ridiculous you are?[/quote]
Every disadvantage you mention can be overcome by a top gun producer, with a fiery desire to succeed.
You do not possess said fiery desire. You exhibit a mean streak as wide as your experience is narrow.
"A negative thought is a downpayment on an obligation to fail." - John Savage
This is how I can tell you're a failed planner. You spew venom and negativity like a snake.
[quote=Roger Thornhill]
Every disadvantage you mention can be overcome by a top gun producer, with a fiery desire to succeed.
[/quote]Nonsense. At least in the securities industry.
Now, in insurance all you have to be able to do is ask things like, "Mr. Johnson, have you ever had diabetes…?"
That can be done by a young man or woman out of school and in so doing
they can develop the age that allows them to at least possibly be
credible, it allows them to develop confidence in their selling
abilitiy (even though it’s really order taking), and it allows them to
walk into Morgan Stanley with a network of sorts, their insurance
clients.
How many times do I have to tell you that the website is mind numbingly sophomoric.
Tell me what is wrong with my suggestion to SaySo. I suppose you’re high on something so I’ll repeat it.
SaySo should go to work at a first rate insurance company–where they
can learn to hone their selling skills in an environment where
credibility is not really very imporant. Then at age 35 or so, if
they’ve succeeded at insurance, they’ll be a Smith Barney branch
manager’s wet dream.
Where am I wrong?
[quote=Put Trader]Where am I wrong? [/quote]
Everywhere.
As I said, immaturity coupled with raw stupidity strutting its stuff like a peacock.
And to think you what passes for a top gun producer.
[quote=Put Trader]Roger,
In order to disagree with me you have to believe that being young is not a disadvantage. Is that your position?
In order to disagree with me you have to believe that having zero sales
experience is not a disadvantage. Is that your position?
In order to disagree with me you have to believe that the absence of a network is an advantage. Is that your position?
Are you incapable of grasping how ridiculous you are?
[/quote]
Put, have you heard of a SWOT Analysis? If not you can google it.
As young as I may be, I have lived in two countries, came to the US
alone at 18, speak 4 languages, hustled my way thru college, graduated
Summa Cum Laude, and have had to fight for everything I have.
These are my words, but for what they are worth, I believe the key to
success in any business is the ability to channel your strengths to explore all
opportunities, identify your weaknesses and work to eliminate or control them,
and turn threats into opportunities to grow and advance personally and professionally.
Failure is NOT an option. If someone fails, AGE, LACK OF FORMAL SALES EXPERIENCE, AND LACK OF WEALTHY CONTACTS, become the EXCUSE, not the cause of failure.
SaySo.<o:p></o:p>
[quote=Roger Thornhill]
[quote=Put Trader]Roger,In order to disagree with me you have to believe that being young is not a disadvantage. Is that your position?In
order to disagree with me you have to believe that having zero sales
experience is not a disadvantage. Is that your position?In order to disagree with me you have to believe that the absence of a network is an advantage. Is that your position?Are you incapable of grasping how ridiculous you are?[/quote]
Every disadvantage you mention can be overcome by a top gun producer, with a fiery desire to succeed.
You do not possess said fiery desire. You exhibit a mean streak as wide as your experience is narrow.
“A negative thought is a downpayment on an obligation to fail.” - John Savage
This is how I can tell you’re a failed planner. You spew venom and negativity like a snake.
[/quote]Roger,
I agree with your statement 100%
[quote=SaySo] Put, have you heard of a SWOT Analysis? If not you can google it.
As young as I may be, I have lived in two countries, came to the US alone at 18, speak 4 languages, hustled my way thru college, graduated Summa Cum Laude, and have had to fight for everything I have.
These are my words, but for what they are worth, I believe the key to success in any business is the ability to channel your strengths to explore all opportunities, identify your weaknesses and work to eliminate or control them, and turn threats into opportunities to grow and advance personally and professionally.
Failure is NOT an option. If someone fails, AGE, LACK OF FORMAL SALES EXPERIENCE, AND LACK OF WEALTHY CONTACTS, become the EXCUSE, not the cause of failure.
SaySo. [/quote]
I'm making my prediction today: SaySo will be successful in this business.
[quote=Roger Thornhill]
[quote=SaySo] Put, have you heard of a SWOT Analysis? If not you can google it. As
young as I may be, I have lived in two countries, came to the US alone
at 18, speak 4 languages, hustled my way thru college, graduated Summa
Cum Laude, and have had to fight for everything I have.These are my words, but for what they are worth, I believe the key to success in any business is the ability
to channel your strengths to explore all opportunities, identify your
weaknesses and work to eliminate or control them, and turn threats into
opportunities to grow and advance personally and professionally.Failure is NOT an option. If someone fails, AGE, LACK OF FORMAL SALES EXPERIENCE, AND LACK OF WEALTHY CONTACTS, become the EXCUSE, not the cause of failure.SaySo.<o:p></o:p> [/quote]
I’m making my prediction today: SaySo will be successful in this business.
[/quote]In what business? Insurance? Perhaps. Securities? No way.
Now, in addition to being too young, with no network and no selling
experience we have a kid who has only been in this country for a
handful of years.
It is admirable and all that when a person can reach down by their boot
straps and pull themselves up–this is America and all that.
However, securities sales is unlike anything I can think of.
Insurance sales is actually little more than order taking–people have
100% sales resistance to insurance until they wake up one day and
realize that they need insurance on their life as well as their car and
their home. Anybody who is alive can take an insurance
application once the client has decided to buy–and no matter how many
top gun producer techniques you’re not going to be able to move
somebody from point A to point B unless and until they’re ready.
The insurance industry is known for hiring the functionally illiterate
among us, the young, and the plaid sport coat hale fellow well met
types.
By comparison securities is actually the fine art of persuation.
In the back of people’s minds is the nagging knowledge that they need
to do more in the area of saving and investing. Unlike life
insurance where the client knows that he needs “X” dollars of
insurance, with securities he or she feels somewhat lost and in need of
professional advice.
The largest sums of money–at the retail level–are controlled by
successful middle aged people. Predominantly white and well
educated.
It is a fact of life–genetics or something–that middle age people
have no faith in 25 year olds. You know it, I know, all God’s
children know it. The other day I stated that Ms. Babbling Looney
would probably admit that when she was 27 she would not have had the
credibility to make it, and she agreed.
There is nothing–NOTHING–that a 25 year old can do to gain credibility except get to be 35, or even 40.
Anybody who disagrees with me is a fool. Kids should be told that
they need to go sell something such as insurance unitl they’re in their
mid thirties.
The danger in not doing so is burning out and getting a reputation as a
faillure in the business. Suppose SaySo actually does encounter
an idiot manager who offers him or her a job. They will have a
U-4 record.
Now, since the odds are 99% that SaySo will fail at this age the U-4
will have a termination date. They call it a U-5.
SaySo will have to do something with their life so let’s say that he or
she walks into your office and since he or she can breath one a cold
mirror and it will fog up you give him or her a job.
Let’s further say that he or she can actually sell insurance–it’s as
easy as falling off a log, all you have to do is make appointments and
then keep them–so after about ten years he or she is the still young
age of 35 and they meet the branch manager of a local Morgan Stanley
office. That manager suggests that with their success at
insurance they might be able to make it in securities so they offer him
or her a job.
Put a smile face on the entry from ten years earlier–the previous employment, the previous testing, the previous failure.
[quote=Put Trader]
[quote=Roger Thornhill]
[quote=SaySo] Put, have you heard of a SWOT Analysis? If not you can google it. As
young as I may be, I have lived in two countries, came to the US alone
at 18, speak 4 languages, hustled my way thru college, graduated Summa
Cum Laude, and have had to fight for everything I have.These are my words, but for what they are worth, I believe the key to success in any business is the ability
to channel your strengths to explore all opportunities, identify your
weaknesses and work to eliminate or control them, and turn threats into
opportunities to grow and advance personally and professionally.Failure is NOT an option. If someone fails, AGE, LACK OF FORMAL SALES EXPERIENCE, AND LACK OF WEALTHY CONTACTS, become the EXCUSE, not the cause of failure.SaySo.<o:p></o:p> [/quote]
I’m making my prediction today: SaySo will be successful in this business.
[/quote]In what business? Insurance? Perhaps. Securities? No way.
Now, in addition to being too young, with no network and no selling
experience we have a kid who has only been in this country for a
handful of years.
It is admirable and all that when a person can reach down by their boot
straps and pull themselves up–this is America and all that.
However, securities sales is unlike anything I can think of.
Insurance sales is actually little more than order taking–people have
100% sales resistance to insurance until they wake up one day and
realize that they need insurance on their life as well as their car and
their home. Anybody who is alive can take an insurance
application once the client has decided to buy–and no matter how many
top gun producer techniques you’re not going to be able to move
somebody from point A to point B unless and until they’re ready.
The insurance industry is known for hiring the functionally illiterate
among us, the young, and the plaid sport coat hale fellow well met
types.
By comparison securities is actually the fine art of persuation.
In the back of people’s minds is the nagging knowledge that they need
to do more in the area of saving and investing. Unlike life
insurance where the client knows that he needs “X” dollars of
insurance, with securities he or she feels somewhat lost and in need of
professional advice.
The largest sums of money–at the retail level–are controlled by
successful middle aged people. Predominantly white and well
educated.
It is a fact of life–genetics or something–that middle age people
have no faith in 25 year olds. You know it, I know, all God’s
children know it. The other day I stated that Ms. Babbling Looney
would probably admit that when she was 27 she would not have had the
credibility to make it, and she agreed.
There is nothing–NOTHING–that a 25 year old can do to gain credibility except get to be 35, or even 40.
Anybody who disagrees with me is a fool. Kids should be told that
they need to go sell something such as insurance unitl they’re in their
mid thirties.
The danger in not doing so is burning out and getting a reputation as a
faillure in the business. Suppose SaySo actually does encounter
an idiot manager who offers him or her a job. They will have a
U-4 record.
Now, since the odds are 99% that SaySo will fail at this age the U-4
will have a termination date. They call it a U-5.
SaySo will have to do something with their life so let’s say that he or
she walks into your office and since he or she can breath one a cold
mirror and it will fog up you give him or her a job.
Let’s further say that he or she can actually sell insurance–it’s as
easy as falling off a log, all you have to do is make appointments and
then keep them–so after about ten years he or she is the still young
age of 35 and they meet the branch manager of a local Morgan Stanley
office. That manager suggests that with their success at
insurance they might be able to make it in securities so they offer him
or her a job.
Put a smile face on the entry from ten years earlier–the previous employment, the previous testing, the previous failure.
[/quote]
Hi Put,
Good points. So selling insurance worked for you when you were 25, right?
Besides, if I’m not a match to MS, ML, SB, … I can always become a
successful manager at AEFA… or whatever name they have then. Look at
the upside, I’ll have plenty of time to write on forums.
Interesting thread.
I see the points in both sides, but favor puts views. I look back at my careers and realize that there were times when I did not have the the knowledge or contacts to kick some butts in the security field. Also it seems to takes a few years for ones circle of influence to develope into solid investors. People who could potentially buy securites and make you some commissions.
Now without sales experience and any network of potential customers the odds are in favor of failure.
I do think reguardless of age it takes failure for one to get the valuable experience to succeed. So if a young man or woman with a clear goal and strong mentor gives it their all the chance of success is fair at best.
Now at the same time what mentor is going to hire a young man, with no sales experience and limited (if any) established network? I would not and I am not that experienced.
I have always thought I was a solid networker. I think there is a skill to it. Join organizations where you can learn from leaders and network. Examples are Toastmasters, Fire Depts, Reserve forces, Lions Club, Rotary Club, sports club or a investment club. My point is you have to be diverse and flexible.
Maybe I am wrong, but I think the chance of success with a limited sales exp, networking skills and personal development beyond college is low... Maybe this is why 9 out of 10 fail after a year.? OF COURSE NOT IMPOSSIBLE.
Also with the diversity I dont think it hurts to have some experience in another career field. Then one could have the knowledge to talk to professionals in that career field.
I think this is a great place for young bulls to learn from the old bulls.. I am a young bull and I dont want anyone to be offended by my comments.
[quote=executivejock]
Interesting thread.
I see the points in both sides, but favor puts views. I look back at my careers and realize that there were times when I did not have the the knowledge or contacts to kick some butts in the security field. Also it seems to takes a few years for ones circle of influence to develope into solid investors. People who could potentially buy securites and make you some commissions.
Now without sales experience and any network of potential customers the odds are in favor of failure.
I do think reguardless of age it takes failure for one to get the valuable experience to succeed. So if a young man or woman with a clear goal and strong mentor gives it their all the chance of success is fair at best.
Now at the same time what mentor is going to hire a young man, with no sales experience and limited (if any) established network? I would not and I am not that experienced.
I have always thought I was a solid networker. I think there is a skill to it. Join organizations where you can learn from leaders and network. Examples are Toastmasters, Fire Depts, Reserve forces, Lions Club, Rotary Club, sports club or a investment club. My point is you have to be diverse and flexible.
Maybe I am wrong, but I think the chance of success with a limited sales exp, networking skills and personal development beyond college is low... Maybe this is why 9 out of 10 fail after a year.? OF COURSE NOT IMPOSSIBLE.
[/quote]Exectutivejock,
Thanks for the insight. I have no problems with ctriticism, in fact, I ask for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism all the time. I admire those who teach, and am eager to give my 2 cents when possible.
I appreciate your comments, mainly because you were polite and seem interested in helping. Mr.Put seems to be in the field for quite some time, so I asked his advice.
Put could have said, "no, I don't want to help you." Which is fine, it's a right he has. He could have said that the odds are against me which is fine, because I KNOW they are. But to say that I WILL FAIL, based on 3 days' worth of writing from me, doesn't make sense.
I have been offered positions with EVERY single financial services company I have applied so far. Apparently they all seem to see a POTENTIAL, which is why they are banking on me. They could wait 10 years and then try to entice me to join with a big sign on bonus, but some are wise to try it with a smaller investment (a small salary) and a longer investment horizon (3-5 years).
Put has very good points 90% of the time, that's why I read his threads. But Roger, and so many others do too.
I thank you for your interest, and wish you luck.
[quote=SaySo]
Put could have said, “no, I don’t want to help you.” Which is fine,
it’s a right he has. He could have said that the odds are against me
which is fine, because I KNOW they are. But to say that I WILL FAIL,
based on 3 days’ worth of writing from me, doesn’t make sense.
[/quote]
Three days of reading SaySo posts and thirty some odd years of
experience. I have said that you have four strikes against
you–young, no experience, no network, and a naturalized citizen if a
citizen at all.
The way it works is this–young people can make it if they have a network. Nothing else helps.
You can be as amibitious as anybody–you can make phone calls till
you’re blue in the face–but at the end of the day you’re still going
to find that adults don’t think of you as an adult, and the money is
controlled by adults.
Another HUGE liability you’re going to have is what I asume is going to
be an accent. Even if you conjugate verbs correctly people on the
other end of the phone are judging you, “Sounds Young!”, "They’re a
Negro, " “She’s a woman,” "He’s not an American."
In order to open an account you’re going to have to find somebody who
doesn’t care that you don’t know your ass from your elbow when it comes
to life experiences, who doesn’t care that you cannot drop the name of
a single person they know as a referal, who doesn’t care that you sound
like your giving a canned sales pitch, and who doesn’t care that you’re
not an American at a time when America is at war with much of the rest
of the world.
What part of you’re the textbook example of failure can you not grasp?
[quote=SaySo]
[quote=executivejock]
Interesting thread.
I see the points in both sides, but favor puts views. I look back at my careers and realize that there were times when I did not have the the knowledge or contacts to kick some butts in the security field. Also it seems to takes a few years for ones circle of influence to develope into solid investors. People who could potentially buy securites and make you some commissions.
Now without sales experience and any network of potential customers the odds are in favor of failure.
I do think reguardless of age it takes failure for one to get the valuable experience to succeed. So if a young man or woman with a clear goal and strong mentor gives it their all the chance of success is fair at best.
Now at the same time what mentor is going to hire a young man, with no sales experience and limited (if any) established network? I would not and I am not that experienced.
I have always thought I was a solid networker. I think there is a skill to it. Join organizations where you can learn from leaders and network. Examples are Toastmasters, Fire Depts, Reserve forces, Lions Club, Rotary Club, sports club or a investment club. My point is you have to be diverse and flexible.
Maybe I am wrong, but I think the chance of success with a limited sales exp, networking skills and personal development beyond college is low... Maybe this is why 9 out of 10 fail after a year.? OF COURSE NOT IMPOSSIBLE.
[/quote]Exectutivejock,
Thanks for the insight. I have no problems with ctriticism, in fact, I ask for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism all the time. I admire those who teach, and am eager to give my 2 cents when possible.
I appreciate your comments, mainly because you were polite and seem interested in helping. Mr.Put seems to be in the field for quite some time, so I asked his advice.
Put could have said, "no, I don't want to help you." Which is fine, it's a right he has. He could have said that the odds are against me which is fine, because I KNOW they are. But to say that I WILL FAIL, based on 3 days' worth of writing from me, doesn't make sense.
I have been offered positions with EVERY single financial services company I have applied so far. Apparently they all seem to see a POTENTIAL, which is why they are banking on me. They could wait 10 years and then try to entice me to join with a big sign on bonus, but some are wise to try it with a smaller investment (a small salary) and a longer investment horizon (3-5 years).
Put has very good points 90% of the time, that's why I read his threads. But Roger, and so many others do too.
I thank you for your interest, and wish you luck.
[/quote]
I hate to tell you, but the reason you're getting so many offers is that most of the 'major' firms are having a hard time filling all their seats, especially at the entry level. Their training programs have a success rate of less than 50% two years out, and so they keep spitting out failed producers, who leave behind empty desks and a small book(er pamphlet) of orphan clients.
That's why they have to keep hiring, to replace those whom have failed. That's why you've gotten so many offers. That, and the fact that maybe you're a well above average candidate.
If you're going to take the leap, find a successful mentor who is willing to help you. Don't count on your firm's training or your peers to help you get by.
[quote=joedabrkr]
I hate to tell you, but the reason you’re getting so many offers is
that most of the ‘major’ firms are having a hard time filling all their
seats, especially at the entry level. Their training programs
have a success rate of less than 50% two years out, and so they keep
spitting out failed producers, who leave behind empty desks and a small
book(er pamphlet) of orphan clients.
That’s why they have to keep hiring, to replace those whom have
failed. That’s why you’ve gotten so many offers. That, and
the fact that maybe you’re a well above average candidate.
If you’re going to take the leap, find a successful mentor who is
willing to help you. Don’t count on your firm’s training or your
peers to help you get by.
[/quote]
Joe, you’ve been around a wirehouse. Have you ever heard of firms
running background checks BEFORE a job offer is accepted?
This is an interesting business in that you cannot practice it unless
you’re licenensed and you cannot get licensed immediately–so if
somebody comes along who you want offer them the job, then check them
out. If they don’t check out they haven’t gotten licensed yet
anyway so all you’ve done is invest a few bucks in their rookie base.
My point is this. I am convinced that SaySo is severely
misreading the tea leaves–it’s like a pimple faced kid who smiles at
the prettiest girl in school and she smiles back. He goes home
that night convinced that she is wanting to have sex with him because
she did not tell him to phuck off.
Also drawing upon your wirehoues experience. Do you disagree with
me that there is a critical age where the elusive “credibility” happens
and unless you’re there you’re pissing into the wind to even attempt
the business? As I write this it occurs to me that you’re a
wirehouse failure, and the chief reason may be because you started too
young. So I guess I’ll not know if you agree or not–but you
should.
Drawing upon your experience. Do you think that people listen to
you on the phone and make instananeous decisions? Do you think a
foreign accent is a positive when prospecting?
Gotta go, Putete and a honey do deal. But not to worry I’ll be back.
[quote=joedabrkr]
[quote=SaySo]
[quote=executivejock]
Interesting thread.
I see the points in both sides, but favor puts views. I look back at my careers and realize that there were times when I did not have the the knowledge or contacts to kick some butts in the security field. Also it seems to takes a few years for ones circle of influence to develope into solid investors. People who could potentially buy securites and make you some commissions.
Now without sales experience and any network of potential customers the odds are in favor of failure.
I do think reguardless of age it takes failure for one to get the valuable experience to succeed. So if a young man or woman with a clear goal and strong mentor gives it their all the chance of success is fair at best.
Now at the same time what mentor is going to hire a young man, with no sales experience and limited (if any) established network? I would not and I am not that experienced.
I have always thought I was a solid networker. I think there is a skill to it. Join organizations where you can learn from leaders and network. Examples are Toastmasters, Fire Depts, Reserve forces, Lions Club, Rotary Club, sports club or a investment club. My point is you have to be diverse and flexible.
Maybe I am wrong, but I think the chance of success with a limited sales exp, networking skills and personal development beyond college is low... Maybe this is why 9 out of 10 fail after a year.? OF COURSE NOT IMPOSSIBLE.
[/quote]Exectutivejock,
Thanks for the insight. I have no problems with ctriticism, in fact, I ask for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism all the time. I admire those who teach, and am eager to give my 2 cents when possible.
I appreciate your comments, mainly because you were polite and seem interested in helping. Mr.Put seems to be in the field for quite some time, so I asked his advice.
Put could have said, "no, I don't want to help you." Which is fine, it's a right he has. He could have said that the odds are against me which is fine, because I KNOW they are. But to say that I WILL FAIL, based on 3 days' worth of writing from me, doesn't make sense.
I have been offered positions with EVERY single financial services company I have applied so far. Apparently they all seem to see a POTENTIAL, which is why they are banking on me. They could wait 10 years and then try to entice me to join with a big sign on bonus, but some are wise to try it with a smaller investment (a small salary) and a longer investment horizon (3-5 years).
Put has very good points 90% of the time, that's why I read his threads. But Roger, and so many others do too.
I thank you for your interest, and wish you luck.
[/quote]
I hate to tell you, but the reason you're getting so many offers is that most of the 'major' firms are having a hard time filling all their seats, especially at the entry level. Their training programs have a success rate of less than 50% two years out, and so they keep spitting out failed producers, who leave behind empty desks and a small book(er pamphlet) of orphan clients.
That's why they have to keep hiring, to replace those whom have failed. That's why you've gotten so many offers. That, and the fact that maybe you're a well above average candidate.
If you're going to take the leap, find a successful mentor who is willing to help you. Don't count on your firm's training or your peers to help you get by.
[/quote]
Joe,
Thanks for the opinion. I agree that there are many seats to fill from wash-outs. In light of the disadvantages pointed by Put, does it make a difference whether starting at Morgan or AGE?
Does a big wirehouse adds credibility? Why would they hire, in Put's words, sure failures?
[quote=Put Trader]
[quote=SaySo]
Put could have said, “no, I don’t want to help you.” Which is fine,
it’s a right he has. He could have said that the odds are against me
which is fine, because I KNOW they are. But to say that I WILL FAIL,
based on 3 days’ worth of writing from me, doesn’t make sense.
[/quote]
Another HUGE liability you’re going to have is what I asume is going to
be an accent. Even if you conjugate verbs correctly people on the
other end of the phone are judging you, “Sounds Young!”, "They’re a
Negro, " “She’s a woman,” “He’s not an American.”
[/quote]
Thanks again for your interest Put.
Do you think there’s place for a niche FA? For the growing Hispanic market, for example? Or small and mid-size minority niche?
Does it make a difference between MS or AGE for a young candidate?
[quote=SaySo]
Thanks again for your interest Put.
Do you think there’s place for a niche FA? For the growing Hispanic market, for example? Or small and mid-size minority niche?
Does it make a difference between MS or AGE for a young candidate?
[/quote]
I believe that minorities who succeed are prone to seeking opportunities to not consider themselves to be minorities.
In other words, I believe that a foreign born doctor is so proud of
himself that he will want to expand on how well he is fitting into the
general population that he will seek out native Americans as his
accountant, lawyer, insurance agent and stockbroker.
I believe that Hispanics who refuse to speak English are not the ones
who have investable assets–so the abilty to speak Spanish is not a
skill that transfers to Wall Street. Again, it would to
insurance, but nto to Wall Street.
You might be able to get an amigo to realize that he needs life
insurance to take care of his family–but you’re not going to convince
him that he needs to do more than that.
Go back to basic financial planning–the financial pyramid.
What’s at the bottom? Insurance–the most basic of basics.
That’s all that the most people can afford–especially
miinorties. Why in the world a Negro or other minority decides to
bypass that incredibly logical, and natural market, and attempt to play
with the upper crust is amazing and amusing.
This country has been caught up in a frenzy of diversity. Merrill
Lynch actually has a diversity department. It’s insane, but it’s
there.
OK so let’s diversify Wall Street. We could do it by hiring more minorities and women–done.
We could also do it by enticing more minorities to become our
customers. Well, how are we going to do that when they don’t have
enough income to pay for the basics such as life insurance?
Again, do not make the mistake of thinking that selling life insurance
is the same thing as selling securities–one is a bare minimum and the
other is out of reach except for about 10% of the population.
Within that 10% you find that every 1,000 people break down to 990
white people with college educations, 2 white people without college
educations, 2 Negroes with college educations, two Asians regardless of
education. The other four are a hodgepodge of immigrants who work
hard.
If you’re one of the four immigrants who work hard that’s great–but
work hard at making the money yourself rather than a salesman trying to
convince them to let you invest it for them–they’re going to want to
get a natural born American for that.
SaySo–you said that you graduated Summa Cum Laude. I’ll start by
expressing my doubts–but cyberspace is a wonderful place and you might
be.
If you are why in the world are you not out there getting a real job
instead of seeking to become a peddler, albeit it a high class peddler?
[quote=Put Trader]
***Snipped Negativity, Bigotry, and Racism***
If you are why in the world are you not out there getting a real job instead of seeking to become a peddler, albeit it a high class peddler? [/quote]
Maybe he wants to achieve more in life that you did, puttyndacrack.
[quote=Put Trader]
[quote=SaySo]
Thanks again for your interest Put.
Do you think there’s place for a niche FA? For the growing Hispanic market, for example? Or small and mid-size minority niche?
Does it make a difference between MS or AGE for a young candidate?
[/quote]
I believe that minorities who succeed are prone to seeking opportunities to not consider themselves to be minorities.
[/quote]
So you’re saying that because an immigrant succeeds he will shun away
from other minorities; in essence ‘begging’ a white broker to accept
his money? Hardly plausible.
[quote=Put Trader]
In other words, I believe that a foreign born doctor is so proud of
himself that he will want to expand on how well he is fitting into the
general population that he will seek out native Americans as his
accountant, lawyer, insurance agent and stockbroker.
[/quote]
Millions of immigrants can only wish it was that easy to "blen into"
the general population. I have an acquaintance who owns a 7-Eleven
store (worth over 500K). He makes a decent 6 figure income, but even if
he tried, he wouldn’t fit into the “general population”, he would still
be an “outsider”, a “damn immigrant!”
[quote=Put Trader]
I believe that Hispanics who refuse to speak English are not the ones
who have investable assets–so the abilty to speak Spanish is not a
skill that transfers to Wall Street. Again, it would to
insurance, but nto to Wall Street.
[/quote]
I beg to differ. Cuban-Americans are among the wealthiest communities
in NJ, and they won’t do business with anyone looking down on them for
choosing to speak whatever language they want.
[/quote]
[quote=Put Trader]
Why in the world a Negro or other minority decides to
bypass that incredibly logical, and natural market, and attempt to play
with the upper crust is amazing and amusing.
[/quote]
So the “upper crust” is a “whites only” club? Are we still in the 50’s?
[quote=Put Trader]
This country has been caught up in a frenzy of diversity. Merrill
Lynch actually has a diversity department. It’s insane, but it’s
there.
[/quote]
Could it be that Merril Lynch knows something Put doesn’t?
[quote=Put Trader]
Well, how are we going to do that when they [immigrants] don’t have
enough income to pay for the basics such as life insurance?
[/quote]
Put, do all whites have enough to pay for those basics? Isn’t this a more socio-economic, rather than ethnic, phenomenon?
[quote=Put Trader]
Within that 10% you find that every 1,000 people break down to 990
white people with college educations, 2 white people without college
educations, 2 Negroes with college educations, two Asians regardless of
education. The other four are a hodgepodge of immigrants who work
hard.
[/quote]
Are these numbers based on US Census? or Put Census?
[quote=Put Trader]
SaySo–you said that you graduated Summa Cum Laude. I’ll start by
expressing my doubts–but cyberspace is a wonderful place and you might
be.
[/quote]
Not that I need to prove it to anybody, but my GPA was 3.9, from a well known state university.
[quote=Put Trader]
If you are why in the world are you not out there getting a real job
instead of seeking to become a peddler, albeit it a high class peddler?
[/quote]
You don’t seem proud of your profession. Do you wish you could go back
and start over again with a “real job” (whatever that means)?
[quote=SaySo]
So you’re saying that because an immigrant succeeds he will shun away
from other minorities; in essence ‘begging’ a white broker to accept
his money? Hardly plausible.
[/quote]
Nobody has to “beg” a broker to accept their account. My thesis
is that the immigrants who excel are inclined to want to be considered
an American, not a hyphenated American.
They will look upon others with a wary eye. In your case, you’re a mere child who has been in the country for a few years.
What in the world could you know abut the confusing world of Wall Street?
[quote=SaySo]
[quote=Put Trader]
Well, how are we going to do that when they [immigrants] don’t have
enough income to pay for the basics such as life insurance?
[/quote]
Put, do all whites have enough to pay for those basics? Isn’t this a more socio-economic, rather than ethnic, phenomenon?
[/quote]
Of course not, I thought you said you had a 3.9 GPA.
But there are very very few immigrants in this country who have been
able to grab the brass ring and have disposable income as a result.
There is a sizeable Cuban population in this country–but what portion
of them are able to invest? How about buying life insurance, what
portion of them do you think have enough money to buy life insurance?
Why would you think that you’re going to be able to succeed by appraoching such a miniscule portion of the population?
I don’t think you’re Cuban–I’m not sure if you’re even Hispanic–but
whatever country you are from has a certain number of fellow
immigrants. They need, and can afford, dozens and dozens of
things that are higher on their “I want” list than mutual funds.
[quote=Put Trader]But there are very very few immigrants in this country who have been able to grab the brass ring and have disposable income as a result.[/quote]
First, you need to have your hand on said brass ring to be able to discuss how one gets to the top. You're still deep down in the valley, wishing you owned some binoculars to spot the rest of us on our trek.
Again, puttyndacrack is ignorant of history. This nation was built by immigrants.
People who arrive newly on our shores, as a rule, do better than the natives (Souce: Stanley, Danko), when it comes to first generation affluence.
Perhaps this is why you are a bigot -- pathetic, neurotic jealousy of those immigrants that do better than you.
Do you think there's place for a niche FA? For the growing Hispanic market, for example? Or small and mid-size minority niche?
Yes, there is definitely a niche market. I know one woman broker in the SF Bay area who deals almost exclusively with Chinese clientele. She does very very well because she can communicate with her clients, especially the older ones who don't speak English. She is the same ethnicity as them and they trust her. She, on the other hand speaks English fluently, having been born and raised here and can connect with non ethnic clients as well.
As to your age being a factor, I have to agree somewhat with Put (but not completely). A young person can make it in securities, but it is very tough. Older clients, who generally are the larger investors, will not be as comfortable with a 20 something, more comforatable with a 30 something, and very willing to do business with a 40 something. I changed from a banking career to securities when I was in my low 30's. I feel that I am the perfect age right now. Old enough to be an authority figure to the younger clients, old enough to be able to relate to my older clients and a contemporary of every one else.
It would be a shame to see a talented and eager young broker get burned out because he tried to run before he could walk.
Another suggestion for Say So is to become a bank broker. Get your feet wet, build relationships with clients and build a network of connections in a more friendly environment. Do this for a few years, then when you have suitable experience and maturity, transition to a wirehouse or other platform.
Best of luck to you.
[quote=babbling looney]As to your age being a factor, I have to agree somewhat with Put (but not completely). A young person can make it in securities, but it is very tough. Older clients, who generally are the larger investors, will not be as comfortable with a 20 something, more comforatable with a 30 something, and very willing to do business with a 40 something. I changed from a banking career to securities when I was in my low 30's. I feel that I am the perfect age right now. Old enough to be an authority figure to the younger clients, old enough to be able to relate to my older clients and a contemporary of every one else. [/quote]
Age is only a factor if the advisor is trying to do everything on their own. If they work with mentors - veterans that have been around a while - this negates the age factor.
I started selling securities when I was 22, and I closed six figure rollovers my first month (one client was 55, the other was 61), even without a mentor. Once I paired up with a veteran, I was off to the races.
I remember my first six figure ticket. I had just sold health insurance to the guys wife. The husband was retiring from Asplundh that month, and had $479,000 in his 401(k). It had been less than two weeks since I passed my Series 6 & 63 (the 7, 24, 26, 65 came later).
He asked me if I dealt with investments, I said yes. He then asked me what I would do with that lump sum. I asked half a dozen questions, and made a recommendation, drawing 6 circles on a legal pad (essentially, DCA from a GNMA fund into 5 other funds that covered varous asset classes), to show him a picture. To put things in perspective, at the time I did this, many QPs only had 3-5 funds to choose from, he only had three.
I'd never made this presentation, only seen it done one time, by one of my managers.
It's one of those moments where the ability to recall what someone had drawn and said came in handy, because at the time, I really had no idea what I was doing.
He looked at what I drew, looked at me, then went over to his desk and picked up a box of papers. From it, he pulled several binders, a few stapled reports, and more literature than anyone would want to read, from all the major wirehouses and several local firms.
He says to me "This is what I've received from everyone else I've talked to. Nobody ever drew me a picture, much less explained to me what they meant in terms I can understand. All they give me are these printouts and reports, with fancy charts with words I don't understand. What you said makes sense. When can I come to your office?"
I pulled out my daytimer, made the appointment.
Two days later, he arrived at the office, met my manager, completed the paper work, and the process began. That's when I learned that it can take 90 days for a rollover (when you're young, you want immediate gratification, and I'll admit, I had spent the commissions in my mind while I was driving home from my appointment that day).
One of the problems with judgemental heuristics is that many people make the systematic error "Since I did not (or could not) do it, then others will not (or can't) do it, either."
That's an argument that is all to easily dismissed, especially by those that HAVE done it.
Would someone please pat this D!ckwad on the back so he goes away!!! What a loser!!! This guy just reeks of polyester!!!
[quote=BlahBlahBlah]
Would someone please pat this D!ckwad on the back so he goes away!!! What a loser!!! This guy just reeks of polyester!!!
[/quote]
Putty doesn't have anything else to do, so he's going to be around until somebody runs over his carcass and puts and end to it.
[quote=Roger Thornhill][quote=BlahBlahBlah]
Would someone please pat this D!ckwad on the back so he goes away!!! What a loser!!! This guy just reeks of polyester!!!
[/quote]
Putty doesn't have anything else to do, so he's going to be around until somebody runs over his carcass and puts and end to it.
[/quote]
I was talking about you Thornhill!!!
[quote=Put Trader]
[quote=SaySo]
[quote=Put Trader]
Well, how are we going to do that when they [immigrants] don’t have
enough income to pay for the basics such as life insurance?
[/quote]
Put, do all whites have enough to pay for those basics? Isn’t this a more socio-economic, rather than ethnic, phenomenon?
[/quote]
Of course not, I thought you said you had a 3.9 GPA.
[/quote]
You mean to say income is directly related to ethnic background?
[quote=Put Trader]
But there are very very few immigrants in this country who have been
able to grab the brass ring and have disposable income as a result.
[/quote]
Following your “only 10% of the population can invest” (which may
be right), all that’s needed is 10% of immigrants on that same
position.
[quote=Put Trader]
There is a sizeable Cuban population in this country–but what portion
of them are able to invest? How about buying life insurance, what
portion of them do you think have enough money to buy life insurance?
[/quote]
That was an example. How about Mexicans (are they ALL day-laborers?)
[quote=Put Trader]
Why would you think that you’re going to be able to succeed by appraoching such a miniscule portion of the population?
[/quote]
I think niche is the way to go.
[quote=Put Trader]
I don’t think you’re Cuban–I’m not sure if you’re even Hispanic–but
whatever country you are from has a certain number of fellow
immigrants. They need, and can afford, dozens and dozens of
things that are higher on their “I want” list than mutual funds.
[/quote]
I’m not Cuban or Hispanic. But unlike many, I have a profound respect
for their culture, language, and financial needs. Why can’t (or
shouldn’t) they be able to plan their kids’ college education, or
retirement?
[quote=babbling looney]
Do you think there’s place for a niche FA? For the growing Hispanic market, for example? Or small and mid-size minority niche?
Yes, there is definitely a niche market. I know one woman
broker in the SF Bay area who deals almost exclusively with Chinese
clientele. She does very very well because she can communicate
with her clients, especially the older ones who don't speak English.
[/quote]
Thank you.
As to your age being a factor, I have to agree somewhat with Put (but not completely). A young person can make it in securities, but it is very tough.
[/quote]
Thank you for the advice. I also think it's very hard to succeed
when you're in your 20's. But I think I can bring something to the
table that a 30-something may not: hunger and humility.
I also worry about getting burned at a wirehouse (MS) and loosing
faith in the business. I wonder if starting at a regional firm, with a
respected training program (AGE) would make more sense.
Any thoughts?
[quote=babbling looney]
It would be a shame to see a talented and eager young broker get burned out because he tried to run before he could walk.
[/quote]What would be the motivation behind a branch manager offering a position to an eager, but young candidate? Does he want his orphaned clients (as few as they may be)?
[quote=babbling looney]
Another suggestion for Say So is to become
a bank broker. Get your feet wet, build relationships with
clients and build a network of connections in a more friendly
environment. Do this for a few years, then when you have
suitable experience and maturity, transition to a wirehouse or other
platform.
Best of luck to you.
[/quote]Thank you. Noted.
[quote=SaySo]
Thank you for the advice. I also think it’s very hard to succeed
when you’re in your 20’s. But I think I can bring something to the
table that a 30-something may not: hunger and humility.
[/quote]
Perhaps you can tell those of us who are older how humility is an asset in the "selling game?"
For that matter, it would be interesting to hear how somebody like
you figures being “hungry” is a benefit that somehow disappears with
maturity?
By that I mean this. You’re telling us that thirty year old
people are less qualified than you becuase you are hungry–let me tell
you something, child. Hungry is a $2,000 per month mortgage, a
wife who would like to be able to stay home with two kids and a third
on the way. Hungry is aging parents wanting to come live nearby,
but without a place to live or the money to afford it. Hungry is
braces on your teenage daughter’s teeth.
You are twenty-five and you’re hungry? If so don’t tell
anybody in a hiring process because it will paint you as a flake.
[quote=SaySo]
I also worry about getting burned at a wirehouse (MS) and loosing
faith in the business. I wonder if starting at a regional firm, with a
respected training program (AGE) would make more sense.
Any thoughts?
AGE is not a regional firm in the sense that it’s a step down from the
national firms. Regional firms are places like Janney Montgomery
Scott in your part of the country.
I’ve about decided that you don’t have any of the skills necessary to
succeed–asking for advice on an Internet forum paints you as being
dull as a butter knife and your refusal to acknowledge common sense is
childish.
[quote=SaySo]
What would be the motivation behind a branch manager offering a
position to an eager, but young candidate? Does he want his orphaned
clients (as few as they may be)?
[/quote]
I still say you don’t actually have offers–you think you do because
some manager said, “We’ll let you know.” You’ve said in other
areas–here and at that ridiculous site–that you have not
actually gotten an offer, that they said they’d write to you but it’s
been two weeks and you’re wondering.
There are managers who find it very difficult to laugh you out of their
presence, or to throw away your resume while your watching, so they
tell you “I’ll be in touch” or "I’ll keep your resume in my active
file."
When you’re 25 you have no way of knowing this stuff–but trust me, I do know what I’m talking about.
Put, if I didn’t believe you had something to bring to the table, I would read or respond to your threards (that’s humility, keep talking to someone of value, that has tried many times to make me look “childish”).
I stand corrected that hunger (for success) is not reserved for younger people; another example of humility, admiting a mistake in public.
I don’t happen to life for writing on this forum (which is very
resourceful, by the way); even though I have been very active these
past couple of days, and plan to remain moderately active.
[quote=Put Trader]
I still say you don’t actually have offers–you think you do because
some manager said, “We’ll let you know.” You’ve said in other
areas–here and at that ridiculous Top Gun site–that you have not
actually gotten an offer, that they said they’d write to you but it’s
been two weeks and you’re wondering.
There are managers who find it very difficult to laugh you out of their
presence, or to throw away your resume while your watching, so they
tell you “I’ll be in touch” or “I’ll keep your resume in my active
file.”
[/quote]
As for not having an offer yet, I have had 3 - NY Life, AXA, and AEFA; all of which are waiting for my answer.
I also have an offer, in my hands, from Morgan Stanley; with a start date and a salary defined (avove their FA minimum).
Sometimes, knowing too much makes you rush to conclusions (I didn’t want to say I had the letter to judge the forum’s opinion).
One more time, thanks for the input Put.
[quote=BlahBlahBlah]I was talking about you Thornhill!!![/quote]
"Jealousy is the tribute mediocrity pays to success." - Joe Gandolfo, CLU, Ph.D.
You reek with envy. Poshyol ty!
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