Is there any agreement in place?

When you get hired by a wirehouse you have arrived at the top of the heap, so why leap?

Everything else is a step down.

Based on earlier discussions on these boards, wirehouses sometimes require the signing of an agreement that training costs are to be reimbursed to the firm if the FA leaves for another firm during the training program period.  According to other posters, these agreements are usually not enforced if the FA fails and is let go.

[quote=opie]Based on earlier discussions on these boards, wirehouses sometimes require the signing of an agreement that training costs are to be reimbursed to the firm if the FA leaves for another firm during the training program period.  According to other posters, these agreements are usually not enforced if the FA fails and is let go.[/quote]

Correct.

These agreements are rarely enforced unless your departure is abusive in nature.

Also, if you jump to another firm the new firm will usually indemnify you from claims of this type.  This is an easy concession to negotiate.

The definition of an “abuse” of the system varies widely and there are no guarantees.  Like I’ve said in my other posts on this subject, I’m not a lawyer and I can only comment on what I’ve observed.  But it’s important to note that recruiters help thousands of brokers change firms every year, and virtually all of them have a non-complete issue that must be managed.

What if the person wanted to skip off to do something totally different that is not in the realm of financial planning?  Perhaps some type of client service job or investor relations-type gig?

[quote=Arizona Bay]What if the person wanted to skip off to do something totally different that is not in the realm of financial planning?  Perhaps some type of client service job or investor relations-type gig?[/quote]

Let's see, do I want to be a stockbroker, get an investor relations gig or answer phones at Yahoo?

Arizona, you need to try to figure out what you want to be when you grow up.

There's too much heavy lifting just getting into the investment sales arena to blow it off because you really want to be a customer service agent.

NASD, that's why I said hypothetical because it is purely out of curiosity.  I'm just trying to figure out how everything works and what the controls are that prevent people from exploiting the system.  I'm not interested in becoming a customer service agent or anything of the sort. 

The company I’m being sponsored only gives you a signing bonus (enough to cover the first round of testing & recommended study materials) AFTER you’re fully licensed, assuming you finish within the given time frame. It’s been very difficult getting licensed and not getting paid to do bitch work.

That's why people try so hard to get jobs at the big wirehouses. They do not leave you high and dry like that. They give you EVERY opportunity to pass the tests WHILE being paid.

By the way, love the sn AZ Bay. Must have fantastic taste in music.

[quote=wlooney]

That's why people try so hard to get jobs at the big wirehouses. They do not leave you high and dry like that. They give you EVERY opportunity to pass the tests WHILE being paid.

By the way, love the sn AZ Bay. Must have fantastic taste in music.

[/quote]

Which companies pay you while studying? I've heard from other people that they get paid for the licenses but olny the first round. Most of those people end up failing 2-3 times and having to wait the 180 days to take it for the fourth time.

wirehouses will pay you a salary while you are studying for your licenses.  You will be doing other things within the branch as well as they prepare you for production.

From your earlier post, it sounds like Ameriprise.

Begs the question. I interviewed at Ameriprise today. And as the branch
manager was making his pitch, he said the company gives a $1,500
signing bonus if you pass the series 7. But you’re not an employee
until you pass the test. I was thinking it would almost be worth it to
eat the test costs, get your license and look for work elsewhere.

Is that possible?

You don’t get your signing bonus with Ameriprise till after you pass your Series 66. They can’t hire you without being fully licensed. I’d be cautious with the testing, people take it lightly and fail multiple times. Even if you study your ass off you still risk failing. I passed my Series 7 on the first try but failed the S. 66 twice now. I studied hard but that test is very very tricky.

[quote=hubbabubba]

wirehouses will pay you a salary while you are studying for your licenses.  You will be doing other things within the branch as well as they prepare you for production.

From your earlier post, it sounds like Ameriprise.

[/quote]

I hear that AXA also does the signing bonus as Ameriprise, only they call it a reimbursement for your testing fees. This reimbursement only covers the first round of tests though. Also, the base salary is lower for AXA according to friends.

I’m not taking the test lightly. My intial question was, “If you pass
your tests, could you reject the signing bonus, eat the costs of the
test and look elsewhere with your licenses?” Not that I’m planning to
do any of this. I’m interviewing at other firms also. I was just
curious if someone could do that. It seems that Ameriprise would be
vulnerable to something like that by not offering you a better package
to start. 

Ameriprise does it this way b/c people would get their licensing through them and then bolt, according to a manager I’ve talked to.  I don’t see why someone could not jump ship, but then it does look bad. 

That’s interesting. I agree it would look bad. But I never knew that was the reason they did it.

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity

No problem

[quote=gonzojoel]I'm not taking the test lightly. My intial question was, "If you pass your tests, could you reject the signing bonus, eat the costs of the test and look elsewhere with your licenses?" Not that I'm planning to do any of this. I'm interviewing at other firms also. I was just curious if someone could do that. It seems that Ameriprise would be vulnerable to something like that by not offering you a better package to start.  [/quote]

A friend of mine told me that once you're fully licensed you can always jump ship. He said there are companies that make you sign a contract but there will be companies willing to buy out the contract if you sign with them. Don't take my word for it though, I'm just repeating what a friend told me.

[quote=slkgirl]

A friend of mine told me that once you're fully licensed you can always jump ship. He said there are companies that make you sign a contract but there will be companies willing to buy out the contract if you sign with them. Don't take my word for it though, I'm just repeating what a friend told me.

[quote=JCadieux] [quote=slkgirl]

A friend of mine told me that once you're fully licensed you can always jump ship. He said there are companies that make you sign a contract but there will be companies willing to buy out the contract if you sign with them. Don't take my word for it though, I'm just repeating what a friend told me.

[/quote]

Slkgirl-

Your friend is correct.  You can always try to jump ship after you are licensed.

However, it's rare that another firm would show interest in you unless you have proven yourself at your original firm.  It's important that you present yourself in the best possible light (experience, performance, potential) and licensure is just a small part of that.


[/quote]

I'm trying to get fully licensed with the firm sponsoring me. I've heard that certain companies won't even hire you if you failed your Series 7 or 66 even once. My friend was working at Merril but was let go when he failed his Series 66. Some of the supervisers have failed either the Series 7 or 66 twice and are still working there.

[quote=slkgirl]

I'm trying to get fully licensed with the firm sponsoring me. I've heard that certain companies won't even hire you if you failed your Series 7 or 66 even once. My friend was working at Merril but was let go when he failed his Series 66. Some of the supervisers have failed either the Series 7 or 66 twice and are still working there.

[/quote]

How would you know that Merrill supervisors failed exams?

Merrill is just one of the firms that will terminate a rookie broker for failing any exam along the way.

It's called having standards of expectation and high quality firms have high standards.  There are exceptionally high quality firms that will terminte a potential hire if they cannot hit at least 80 on the Series 7.

It's just a way of measuring how bright and how motivated the individual is.  Personally I think it's way too easy and was very disappointed when the need for math skills was all but eliminated.

Do you suppose those who are terminated did not know that they were taking a high stakes test?

[quote=slkgirl]

I'm trying to get fully licensed with the firm sponsoring me. I've heard that certain companies won't even hire you if you failed your Series 7 or 66 even once. My friend was working at Merril but was let go when he failed his Series 66. Some of the supervisers have failed either the Series 7 or 66 twice and are still working there.

[/quote]

You got a shovel for that bull?  How did these guys get to be managers without being licensed?  Yes, you will get dropped if you fail your 7 or 66 and rightfully so.  You're getting paid to study, your job is to advise clients and it's pretty hard to advise when you don't know what you're advising about. 

At a firm like Merrill there are lots of people around who have supervisory responsibility who did not come up through the sales force.

It is true that a lot of them failed various exams--there are often operations managers in branches who took Series 7 several times.  That they did not get fired is irrelevant--they get licensed so that they can be a "signature" in the branch when the BOM is away.

Our firm had a lot of branches managed by men and women who came up through all sorts of career paths--it was not at all uncommon for somebody to be hired as a young person in the cage and work their way to BOM.

Being in production does not teach you much about how the business operates--and if you're not the lead dog the view never changes.

Many trainees don’t realize that this isn’t college any more.  That’s a
big reason behind the trend towards experienced trainees.

Isn’t it funny that the firms with higher expectations also tend to
have higher success rates?  That’s because they invest more in each
trainee.

There are really two factors at play here:

Actually you don't have to be lucky to be allowed to study at work--most firms I am familiar with expect you to do that about 80% of the time.

The rest of the time you'll be doing odd jobs around the office--not so much to abuse you as to get you familiar with the way things work.

Even answering the phone can be a learning experience.

If all that is really expected of you is to pass the exams, and you're being paid to study, it's not unexpected that you'd be fired if you're not bright enough to accomplish such a basic challenge.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=slkgirl]

I'm trying to get fully licensed with the firm sponsoring me. I've heard that certain companies won't even hire you if you failed your Series 7 or 66 even once. My friend was working at Merril but was let go when he failed his Series 66. Some of the supervisers have failed either the Series 7 or 66 twice and are still working there.

[/quote]

My friend was working for Merril for a year and his supervisor said he failed the Series 66 twice. He was let go because he didn't pass the series 66 on his first try and they wouldn't let him retest.

How would you know that Merrill supervisors failed exams?

Merrill is just one of the firms that will terminate a rookie broker for failing any exam along the way.

It's called having standards of expectation and high quality firms have high standards.  There are exceptionally high quality firms that will terminte a potential hire if they cannot hit at least 80 on the Series 7.

It's just a way of measuring how bright and how motivated the individual is.  Personally I think it's way too easy and was very disappointed when the need for math skills was all but eliminated.

Do you suppose those who are terminated did not know that they were taking a high stakes test?

[quote=entrylevelFA][quote=slkgirl]

I'm trying to get fully licensed with the firm sponsoring me. I've heard that certain companies won't even hire you if you failed your Series 7 or 66 even once. My friend was working at Merril but was let go when he failed his Series 66. Some of the supervisers have failed either the Series 7 or 66 twice and are still working there.

[/quote]

You got a shovel for that bull?  How did these guys get to be managers without being licensed?  Yes, you will get dropped if you fail your 7 or 66 and rightfully so.  You're getting paid to study, your job is to advise clients and it's pretty hard to advise when you don't know what you're advising about. 

[/quote]

The supervisor passed on his third attempt at the Series 66. Next time you should read my response before jumping to conclusions. I never said he didn't eventually pass the exam, just said he failed the Series 66 twice.

What job did your friend lose as a result of failing the 66?

He was supposed to be an advisor for Merrill since he was almost fully licensed. From what I remember they were paying him pretty well for whatever he was doing. During the time he was getting licensed he was studying for his CPA. We don't talk as much these days since he's working at PWC and you know they have hectic work hours.

Was he supervised by a branch manager–or somebody in a call center or other non-branch environment?

[quote=NASD Newbie]Was he supervised by a branch manager--or somebody in a call center or other non-branch environment?[/quote]

He worked for an actual branch. Other than that I dont know all the details. You sure respond fast to all the forums!

[quote=slkgirl]

[quote=NASD Newbie]Was he supervised by a branch manager--or somebody in a call center or other non-branch environment?[/quote]

He worked for an actual branch. Other than that I dont know all the details. You sure respond fast to all the forums!

[/quote]

It comes from being a transaction oriented broker and being able to watch several things at once.

If a Merrill BOM failed Series 66--and a lot of them did--they cannot be terminated because they were already in their job.

It is not unfair to establish standards for new hires that are different than those who are already on board.

Additionally, it's been several years now.  When the 65 and 66 first came out there was not good study material.  That is not the case these days--if you fail any NASD or NASSA exam you really didn't try, and it's hard to put a happy face on that lack of effort.

[quote=NASD Newbie][quote=slkgirl]

[quote=NASD Newbie]Was he supervised by a branch manager--or somebody in a call center or other non-branch environment?[/quote]

He worked for an actual branch. Other than that I dont know all the details. You sure respond fast to all the forums!

[/quote]

It comes from being a transaction oriented broker and being able to watch several things at once.

If a Merrill BOM failed Series 66--and a lot of them did--they cannot be terminated because they were already in their job.

It is not unfair to establish standards for new hires that are different than those who are already on board.

Additionally, it's been several years now.  When the 65 and 66 first came out there was not good study material.  That is not the case these days--if you fail any NASD or NASSA exam you really didn't try, and it's hard to put a happy face on that lack of effort.

[quote=joedabrkr]
So you were a transaction oriented broker?  I thought that was several decades ago, and only for a short time.

Which was it, Newbie, were you a transaction oriented broker or a successful member of management?

You're starting to mix up your cover stories, chum.
[/quote]

Not at all Joebee--I developed the ability to multi task as a transaction oriented broker--used those skills thorughout my life and am using them today as I flip back and forth from legging into some Google combos and discussing the industry with the boys and girls who waste time on this forum.

By the way, it was less than twelve hours ago that you swore you would "post around" me--whatever that means.

You could sooner turn back the night.

If I were to use "those skills thorughout my life" my life, I would be a failed broker like you. 

You need to stop correcting grammar and spelling if you can't live up to your own standards. 

Sorry, I cut and paste poorly. 

"those skills thorughout my life" my life, 

The second 'my life' should be deleted. 

[quote=baylorjoyce1]

Sorry, I cut and paste poorly. 

"those skills thorughout my life" my life, 

The second 'my life' should be deleted. 

[/quote]

Typos are not grammar mistakes--didn't they teach that at Baylor?

<?:namespace prefix = o ns = “urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office” /><o:p>

You don't use spell check????!!!!!

You blame it on typos, but I think due to your reputation on here we all will choose to believe you are an incompetent idiot. 

Don't be a douche and then expect for people to give you some slack. 

[quote=baylorjoyce1]<o:p>
</o:p>

You don't use spell check????!!!!!

 [/quote]

I have spent several weekends in Waco--it was like spending a lifetime in hell.

And how was your time at the David Koresh lovefest?

[quote=hubbabubba]

And how was your time at the David Koresh lovefest?

[/quote]

Nah, I was playing golf in Palm Springs when that all came down.

One thing about Wall Street is they know where to hold their meetings.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

I have spent several weekends in Waco--it was like spending a lifetime in hell.

[/quote]

Newbie,

what were you doing in Waco?? That is just pure torture for a New Yorker visiting Waco.