Struggling

You won't make it with 2 Million amigo.  Try AT LEAST 5 million to be scraping the bottom of the barell and this is with one of those great 2 year salary packages hoping that you reach 12 million by end of year 2.  Needless to say you wont be making much money at those levels.

Are you working for a real firm?  You should know this stuff before you get on the phones newkid.

Working for MS currently. I think I would classify them as a “real firm”.

newkid,

What are your income goals?Are you on a salary with ML currently?2 mil in fee accounts will definitly starve your wife and children to death( net $10,000 for the year @ 1%, after a 50% payout), but 2 mil as an independent can yield $140,000 net to you in equity index annuity commissions. Furthermore, the cross selling opportunities are tremendous.Go where the money is. Keep it simple. Make a legacy for yourself, not some big wirehouse. Have the courage to follow your dreams, and choose the path of least resistance.

Call business owners- offer market returns with no market risk-something they aren't being beat over the head with like stock picks, etc.offer to stop by, they say sure, profile them at meeting and find out what problems they have and offer solutions at a 2nd appointment.

Good luck

[quote=Lakers]

but 2 mil as an independent can yield $140,000 net to you in equity index annuity commissions.

[/quote]

One must never underestimate how sleazy those who prowl this business can be.

Whenever somebody stresses how much you can make in fees check to see if you still have  your watch.

http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/equityidxannuity.htm

[quote=newkid]Anyone have any advice on prospecting, I have been cold calling and trying to network but it just seems that no one wants to listen to me.

I am hoping to have 2mm under management in my first year? Is this a realistic expectation?
[/quote]

Your expectations are way too low. At MS you should be gathering 6-10M per year.

<SPAN =bold>NASD Newbie, failing to see where you are adding value to this thread, as usual.

Lakers, I have no sage advice to offer other than this: keep doing what you know you have to do, whether it be cold calling, door knocking, seminars or whatever.  Just when things seem darkest, business will come out of nowhere.

Progress in our business is rarely a straight line graph.  Rather, it's more like a series of hockey sticks, indicating sudden spurts and plateaus.  When you get down, as indeed you seem to be now, talk it over with friends in the business who are NOT, I repeat, NOT negative criers of doom.  It helps.

Best of luck to ya!

Oh, and one more thing…pay no heed to NASD Newbie.  He knows nothing, and frequently proves it.

My apologies, Lakers.

The above was intended for Newbie.

[quote=Philo Kvetch]Oh, and one more thing...pay no heed to NASD Newbie.  He knows nothing, and frequently proves it.[/quote]

OK Philo, why don't you instruct the assembled on how an Indexed Equity Annuity is going to work.

I'll tell you what, just correct my thinking.

I deposit $100,000 which is reduced to $93,000 by the sales charge.

I am in an indexed annuity with, let's say, an 80% participation.

Let's suppose the index drops 15% this year.  Since I am only an 80% participant my portfolio will only drop by 80% of 15% or 12%--so my $93,000 is now $81,840. 

The next year the index rises by 10% but since I'm only an 80% participant my increse is only 8%--so now my $81,840 is $88,387.

We could do this mental masturbation for a number of years, but the reality is that because of the huge 7% juice taken right off the top, plus the annual invasion of principal for fees of various sorts, and the only really good deal about these things is that the sales weasel gets 7% off the top.

Where am I wrong--especially with the weasel part?

Whaddya bet they're sold buy guys who take the market action from September of 1982 to September of 1987, smear some grape jelly on the dates, seal the chart in plastic and talk about "...this is what would have happened in a recent five year period....."

Sold BY guys not sold BUY guys.

It's the suckers who buy.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=Philo Kvetch]Oh, and one more thing...pay no heed to NASD Newbie.  He knows nothing, and frequently proves it.[/quote]

OK Philo, why don't you instruct the assembled on how an Indexed Equity Annuity is going to work.

I'll tell you what, just correct my thinking.

I deposit $100,000 which is reduced to $93,000 by the sales charge.

I am in an indexed annuity with, let's say, an 80% participation.

Let's suppose the index drops 15% this year.  Since I am only an 80% participant my portfolio will only drop by 80% of 15% or 12%--so my $93,000 is now $81,840. 

The next year the index rises by 10% but since I'm only an 80% participant my increse is only 8%--so now my $81,840 is $88,387.

We could do this mental masturbation for a number of years, but the reality is that because of the huge 7% juice taken right off the top, plus the annual invasion of principal for fees of various sorts, and the only really good deal about these things is that the sales weasel gets 7% off the top.

Where am I wrong--especially with the weasel part?

Whaddya bet they're sold buy guys who take the market action from September of 1982 to September of 1987, smear some grape jelly on the dates, seal the chart in plastic and talk about "...this is what would have happened in a recent five year period....."

[/quote]

So what's your point?

You want to screw old ladies with EIAs now, instead of your usual practice of screwing old ladies with long term bonds?

You're despicable, Put.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=Philo Kvetch]Oh, and one more thing...pay no heed to NASD Newbie.  He knows nothing, and frequently proves it.[/quote]

OK Philo, why don't you instruct the assembled on how an Indexed Equity Annuity is going to work.

I'll tell you what, just correct my thinking.

I deposit $100,000 which is reduced to $93,000 by the sales charge.

I am in an indexed annuity with, let's say, an 80% participation.

Let's suppose the index drops 15% this year.  Since I am only an 80% participant my portfolio will only drop by 80% of 15% or 12%--so my $93,000 is now $81,840. 

The next year the index rises by 10% but since I'm only an 80% participant my increse is only 8%--so now my $81,840 is $88,387.

We could do this mental masturbation for a number of years, but the reality is that because of the huge 7% juice taken right off the top, plus the annual invasion of principal for fees of various sorts, and the only really good deal about these things is that the sales weasel gets 7% off the top.

Where am I wrong--especially with the weasel part?

Whaddya bet they're sold buy guys who take the market action from September of 1982 to September of 1987, smear some grape jelly on the dates, seal the chart in plastic and talk about "...this is what would have happened in a recent five year period....."

[/quote]

IF you understood EIA's, which you don't, you would know that if the market falls, you would still be at $100,000. The commissions are 9-10%, not 7%. Also, I get paid that 10% at a 100% payout rate, plus .25% in marketing reimbursement. Pretty neat, ain't it?

[quote=cranky sob]

IF you understood EIA's, which you don't, you would know that if the market falls, you would still be at $100,000. The commissions are 9-10%, not 7%. Also, I get paid that 10% at a 100% payout rate, plus .25% in marketing reimbursement. Pretty neat, ain't it?

[/quote]

So, the investor gets his participation percentage of any increases in the index value, but does not suffer if the market pulls back?

If I give you $100,000 and the market goes straight down for three years then goes up in the fourth year will I be ahead at the end of the fourth year because of the increase in the fourth year?

Or am I still down because of the first three years--and the only way I'll get my $100,000 back is if I don't cash out until some later date?

I’m not an expert on all EIAs, but the ones that I’ve seen typically guarantee a return somewhere in the neighborhood of 1-6% with caps built in monthly. In 2004, the market was flat for 10 months and then picked up 10% (ish) Nov and Dec. With a 2% cap and an 80% participation rate they were looking at a return of less than 4% for a year when the market did 10%. If a broker is really looking out for their clients IMO these should not be sold and replaced with a fixed annuity - I can guarantee 5.6% on a 10 yr annuity - why would I buy a 20 yr surrender EIA that will likely average 2-5%. I have seen 20% surrenders on some of this junk. – Where’s Dirk? I’m sure he’ll straighten me out.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=cranky sob]

IF you understood EIA's, which you don't, you would know that if the market falls, you would still be at $100,000. The commissions are 9-10%, not 7%. Also, I get paid that 10% at a 100% payout rate, plus .25% in marketing reimbursement. Pretty neat, ain't it?

[/quote]

So, the investor gets his participation percentage of any increases in the index value, but does not suffer if the market pulls back?

Yes.

If I give you $100,000 and the market goes straight down for three years then goes up in the fourth year will I be ahead at the end of the fourth year because of the increase in the fourth year?

Your value doesn't go down. However some of the companies will not guarantee a 100% return of value if the market performance never goes up.

Or am I still down because of the first three years--and the only way I'll get my $100,000 back is if I don't cash out until some later date?

[/quote]

I don't sell these things, but my understanding is that you do not have any negative performance if the index you are tied to goes down.  They have a participation rate of the performance, some are 80%, some are 100% with a cap of anywhere between 3 and 6%

For instance if the index performance was 10% and you are at a 100% participation and your cap is 4% then your 100,000 annuity will recieve a a 4,000 increase.  If the next year the index perfoms at a -1% your account value is still 104,000.  Some of the annuities credit the performance on a quarterly basis. Some of them are point to point, some of them average the index (they call it smoothing  ) and then credit that amount.

The sales charge is not taken out of the annuity (at least in the ones that have been shown to me by the wholesalers) just like any other fixed annuity.

What if the market doesn't ever ever ever go up?  I think some of them have a guaranteed return of some percentage of the initial investment less a certain initial percentage.  They say the guaranteed return is 3% and then don't really clarify that that is 3% over the lifetime of the annuity, not compounded annually.  If the market never ever went up over the 5 or 10 years of the contract the client could come out with less money than they started with. This loss is to compensate the company for the index trading that they are doing with the entire portfolio of annuities. Like any annuity the client must hold to the maturity or have a surrender penalty.

I don't like EIAs because there are too many moving parts and they are very difficult to explain fully to the client.  If they are that risk adverse they should not be in this product which really only performs in a rising market environment.  Plus it doesn't perfom very well. 

I also really don't like EIAs because they are improperly and often fraudulently sold to people who don't understand what they are by greedy insurance sales people who don't really understand investing in the first place.  They give us all a bad name.

If you are going to bitch about this product, you might want to actually know a little bit about it.

"If you are going to bitch about this product, you might want to actually know a little bit about it."

Good point, BL.

But why limit the comment to one product?  For all the bitching this pimple does, I haven't seen any evidence that he actually understands (or even tries to) anything.

[quote=babloony]

"If you are going to bitch about this product, you might want to actually know a little bit about it."

[/quote]

When you are in a college class if the professor asks you to explain something do you assume he doesn't know?

Or would you think of it as a way to get the student to discuss it so that the discussion can be disected into right and wrong components?

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=babloony]

"If you are going to bitch about this product, you might want to actually know a little bit about it."

[/quote]

When you are in a college class if the professor asks you to explain something do you assume he doesn't know?

Or would you think of it as a way to get the student to discuss it so that the discussion can be disected into right and wrong components?

[/quote]

What would you know about right and wrong?

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=Philo Kvetch]Oh, and one more thing…pay no heed to NASD Newbie. He knows nothing, and frequently proves it.[/quote]

OK Philo, why don’t you instruct the assembled on how an Indexed Equity Annuity is going to work.

I’ll tell you what, just correct my thinking.

I deposit $100,000 which is reduced to $93,000 by the sales charge.

I am in an indexed annuity with, let’s say, an 80% participation.

Let’s suppose the index drops 15% this year. Since I am only an 80% participant my portfolio will only drop by 80% of 15% or 12%–so my $93,000 is now $81,840.

The next year the index rises by 10% but since I’m only an 80% participant my increse is only 8%–so now my $81,840 is $88,387.

We could do this mental masturbation for a number of years, but the reality is that because of the huge 7% juice taken right off the top, plus the annual invasion of principal for fees of various sorts, and the only really good deal about these things is that the sales weasel gets 7% off the top.

Where am I wrong–especially with the weasel part?

Whaddya bet they’re sold buy guys who take the market action from September of 1982 to September of 1987, smear some grape jelly on the dates, seal the chart in plastic and talk about “…this is what would have happened in a recent five year period…”

[quote=bankrep1]

2. you're wife hates you
3. you're broke so you can't afford to leave your house and do anything fun

[/quote]

One of those you're is correct.  Which one is it, moron?  Are you so dumb that you can't even use them in the same time frame and realize the mistake?

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=babloony]

"If you are going to bitch about this product, you might want to actually know a little bit about it."

[/quote]

When you are in a college class if the professor asks you to explain something do you assume he doesn't know?

Yes. If, during the lectures, he is using examples that clearly indicate that he really doesn't understand the function or rational behind the topic in which he is trying to present himself as an expert.

Or would you think of it as a way to get the student to discuss it so that the discussion can be disected into right and wrong components?

I would if the professor would actually shut up once in a while and listen with an open mind.    No offense.  We can all learn from each other here.  I really appreciate the threads on the option strategies

I would think all 3 are correct

[quote=babbling looney]

When you are in a college class if the professor asks you to explain something do you assume he doesn't know?

Yes. If, during the lectures, he is using examples that clearly indicate that he really doesn't understand the function or rational behind the topic in which he is trying to present himself as an expert.

[/quote]

Who presented themselves as an expert.  Certainly not me.  I tossed up an illustration and invited people to point out where I was wrong.

Somebody did that in a civil manner, and they get a grade of A+.  You did it in a less civil manner and you get a B -.

The resident genius--"Earnings always go up"--gets an F.  Not only did he not explain it, he has never explained anything.

And then there's Philo--so consumed with envy that he cannot see straight.  He gets a "Withdrew Failing."

[quote=babbling looney]

Or would you think of it as a way to get the student to discuss it so that the discussion can be disected into right and wrong components?

I would if the professor would actually shut up once in a while and listen with an open mind.    No offense.  We can all learn from each other here.  I really appreciate the threads on the option strategies

[/quote]

I am all ears when it comes to this annuity stuff.  I have never claimed to be an expert at it and it's all been introduced since my days when it would have been important to know.

Now tell me again why I would want an investment that I have to hold for ten years, that invovles a 10% chop, that is probably going to underperform just about everything that is available.

Oh, because it's guaranteed.  I get it--just like if I keep my checkbook in my pocket and walk out of your office.

Do you people really consider yourselves to be worth your fees when all you do is fixate on guarantees that are so low that your clients will never be able to retire?

"Earnings always go up" said last night that he is going to not get an account because the guy realizes that he needs to compound at a better than 8% clip.

That is not available now--but it might be in a year or two.  Meanwhile in a frenzy to screw your clients you shove them into annuities of various sizes and shapes by focusing on two things--a pathetic guarantee and the biggest juice available to you.

If you lock my money up for ten years, and I"m 55 years old now how in the hell am I going to be able to take advantage of greater opportunities later.

Why not save the annuities until they are really too good to turn down, instead of being the only thing you can sell sombody that promises to give them their money back?

If you were your client would you buy your line of bullschidt?

I don't sell EIAs. I said that in my previouse snarky post. They suck. I have a couple of clients who own them from previous brokers, and they are a pain in the butt to explain every year when they get their statements.  You don't want to own one.

I've already told you there isn't a commission deduction. No chop. At least in the ones that I know about. Your illustration is so incorrect and your assumptions obvious that you do not understand this product at all. 

Understanding it doesn't mean I like it either, however. In fact by understanding it correctly and being able to explain how it works, I am better able to talk someone out of buying an EIA that was presented by Joe Plaid the insurance salesman.

You will forgive me if I conclude that if the salesman makes 10% of my investment I am going to be paying it in a lower rate of return.

Something to do with no free lunch.

NASD



When you consider the insurance company is going to have your money for 10-20 years it’s really not that much.



If you look at a 5 year EIA the commissions are 4-5%

[quote=NASD Newbie]

You will forgive me if I conclude that if the salesman makes 10% of my investment I am going to be paying it in a lower rate of return.

Something to do with no free lunch.

[/quote]

Well... of course.  But that isn't the same thing as a sales charge up front, or a chop in value of your initial investment.  I explain that the reason you are not getting the full market performance in an EIA is that the insurance company is buying puts and calls on the index.  They really aren't investing the the actual index underlying securities.  All this trading is costly and that is why you don't get the actual performance.  If the index earns 15% you don't get that. You get whatever the negotiated spread or participation is.     The insurance companies make out like bandits when the market is good and when the market is bad they don't do as well. 

Who really makes the big  money in an EIA......doh....the insurance company of course.  Why else did they manufacture such an animal.

You also get a lower rate of return than the actual performance of the securities in a mutual fund too.  Somebody has to get paid for all of the management etc.  No free lunch anywhere!

Newbie,

It is very obvious you don't know anything about indexed annuities or our business. Why don't you get off this board? You don't belong here. Go some place else. You're not wanted here. You're an A$$. That's the bottom line.

I second that

[quote=babbling looney]

You also get a lower rate of return than the actual performance of the securities in a mutual fund too.  Somebody has to get paid for all of the management etc.  No free lunch anywhere!

[/quote]

Buy 500 Google at 403.50                  - 201,750
Write 5 Jan 08 460 calls at 62         &nbs p; +  31,000
Buy 5 Jan 08 400 puts at 56         &nbs p;   -   28,000
Commissions        & nbsp;         & nbsp;         & nbsp;      -      &nbsp ;100
Net Investment        &n bsp;         &n bsp;         &n bsp;-  198,850

The cost per share is $397.70

The worst case scenario is you sell the 500 shares for 200,000 by exercising the puts, minus a $40 commission--so there is no possible loss and the minium gain is $1,110.

The maximum profit occurs if the stock is higher than 460 and you sell it for $460--or 230,000 minus a commission of $40--so the maximum gain is 31,110.

How much would $198,000 be worth in a variable annuity if the client wants to get out after 17 months?

But what about percentages?

OK, $31,110 is only 15% of the initial investment of 198,850 and it will take roughly 17 months to realize it--so on an annual basis the maximum gain is approximately 11%

What is the maximum annual percentage gain in an EIA?

How about this line of thinking.

Since there is no risk why not use margin?  If you do the cash required drops to only $97,875--but you will have to pay about 8,000 in margin interest over the next 17 months.

So your 1,110 minimum profit becomes a maximum loss of about $7,000 or roughly 7% over the 17 months or 5% per year.  Not as good as no risk, but not the end of the world either.  This trade will return a minimum of about $91,000 at the 17th month.  What would be the guaranteed value of $97,000 stuck in a VA at the 17th month?

On the positive side the $31,110 maximum gain is reduced to about $23,000 by the margin interest.  That is roughly 23% over 17 months or about 16.5% annualized.

What is the maximum one can realistically expect from a mutual fund, much less an annuity with all the penalties, in only 17 months?

Why in the world would you allow a client to tie up $100,000 for 17 months for a $50 commission and no trails?  You won't.

How would you like to have a plaintiff's attorney take you through a series of questions designed to ask why you did not have your client's best interest at heart?

"Why did you choose to lock Mr. Johnson's money into a product that had massive surrender charges rather than invest in such a way that a worst case would be that he would recoup about 93% of his investment in only 17 months?

"When rates of return are low, as they were in the summer of 2006 did it not make sense to avoid at all cost investing in such a way that Mr. Johnson could not gain access to his money for years without signficant penalties?

"Is it not true that the reason you made the recommendations that you did to Mr. Johnson is because your earnings on what you did sell him was in the thousands of dollars, while if you had made the recommendation Mr. NASD Newbie has shown you would have resulted in no more than $50 in commissions.

"Is that not the real truth to this whole sordid affair?  You put your greed ahead of my client's best interest?  Is that not true????

"Gentlemen of the panel.  I respectfully request that you award my client return of their principal, plus 10% interest, plus $25,000,000 for mental anguish and as a way of sending a message to securities sales people everywhere than they must focus on their clients instead of themselves.

"Thank you.  We rest."

whats hapeens if GOOG gaps down to $300 share after missing earnings..?

"offer market returns with no market risk"

I can't believe that nobody beat up on Lakers for the above quote. 

The quote is patently false and he won't stay in business if he ever puts that in writing.  

EIAs are a fixed annuity and there is no reason to expect one to perform better than a traditional fixed annuity.  They are only appropriate for the client who wants a fixed annuity, but would like the chance to possibly earn more than a traditional fixed annuity.  However, there is no reason to expect an EIA to outperform any other fixed annuity.  An EIA can't legally be talk about as an investment.  One cannot invest in an EIA.  An EIA can be used as a savings vehicle.

NASD, you seem to know a lot about many subjects, but not annuities.  ( FYI from a different thread:  VAs with living benefits can be invested 100% in equities and still have the guarantee.)

[quote=Rugby]

whats hapeens if GOOG gaps down to $300 share after missing earnings..?

[/quote]

You sell it for $400 per share because you own a put option.  If you have not studied for Series 7 that is a fair question--if you have you should be so ashamed that you go sit in the garage with the car running but the garage door closed.

Stock goes to $300 scenario is:



500 shares of google at $300 = 150,000      -51,750

Premium collected for writing call         &n bsp;+31,000

Cost of Puts & Commissions        & nbsp;         & nbsp;         & nbsp;    -28,100



Value of put option                           +50,000



Net result                                      +1,150



NASD,



Option strategies such as this do offer low risk opportunities, however, the chance it will be worth 2,000 or the minimum is pretty good.



$2000 is a 1% gain over 17 months. Why did you not just buy a CD & use the interest to purchase calls (your own EIA), you would probably make more money than you would with the above strategy.

Good question, bankrep.

The answer, of course, is that when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Put has made some money on GOOG over the last months, so he is now the world's leading authority on options.

Pathetic, actually.  But not uncommon for someone with his nature to resent his betters.

[quote=bankrep1]
Why did you not just buy a CD & use the interest to purchase calls (your own EIA), you would probably make more money than you would with the above strategy.

[/quote]

Because there is no larger sucker bet than buying both puts and calls--straddles.

Because 80% of options buyers lose at least some money.

The reason to buy the stock is because if it doesn't move you still have the stock and can do the strategy again.  Adjust the parameters and hit the max gain the next time.

I ask again. How much would $100,000 put into a Variable Annuity be worth if I wanted to take it out at the 17th month?

What penalties would I suffer?

Is the point of being a finanical advisor to recommend the most suitable investment choice for the client, or to maxmize the fees and commissisons?

I didn’t say straddles I said buy calls with the interest again and again and again. You cannot lose money my strategy. It is exactly the same thing the insurance company does.



As far as the VA goes that depends on if you do an A share, B share, C share etc. It also depends on the performance of the investment you selected. If you might touch the money within a year or two, I would put you in a C share annuity (No CDSC), does that answer your question.

Oh yeah since I have answered your questions why 't you answer mine about the living benefit, there was a nice article written by Nick Murray that happened to agree with me that I just read

[quote=bankrep1]I didn't say straddles I said buy calls with the interest again and again and again. You cannot lose money my strategy. It is exactly the same thing the insurance company does.

As far as the VA goes that depends on if you do an A share, B share, C share etc. It also depends on the performance of the investment you selected. If you might touch the money within a year or two, I would put you in a C share annuity (No CDSC), does that answer your question.[/quote]

How about pentalties coming out after only 17 months?  Will I get 100% of my money back after only 17 months?

What if I don't know if I'll need my money.  I might, but I don't know.  Is an annuity a good place to put it?

Why don't you have your client's buying CDs and using the interest to buy calls on a big index--say the OEX?

That's an easy two step dance--why put them into something that has a lot of moving parts like an annuity?

[quote=bankrep1]Oh yeah since I have answered your questions why 't you answer mine about the living benefit, there was a nice article written by Nick Murray that happened to agree with me that I just read[/quote]

Ah, Nick Murray--give him a few bucks and he'll show up anywhere and say anything.

In an entertaining way.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=bankrep1]I didn't say straddles I said buy calls with the interest again and again and again. You cannot lose money my strategy. It is exactly the same thing the insurance company does.

As far as the VA goes that depends on if you do an A share, B share, C share etc. It also depends on the performance of the investment you selected. If you might touch the money within a year or two, I would put you in a C share annuity (No CDSC), does that answer your question.[/quote]

How about pentalties coming out after only 17 months?  Will I get 100% of my money back after only 17 months?

C share annuity = no CDSC = no early withdrawal penalty.  Whether you will get 100% of your money back depends on the sub accounts you have invested in.  There is no way I would suggest a VA annuity to someone who has not made the commitment to leave the investment in for longer than 17 months.  In fact I wouldn't suggest you invest in a mutual fund either. 

What if I don't know if I'll need my money.  I might, but I don't know.  Is an annuity a good place to put it?

If you are so unsure as to if you are going to need your money and this risk adverse I would suggest you do not invest and put your money in a CD.....or better yet a Folgers coffee can in the back yard. That way you can go and play with your money any time you want to.

Why don't you have your client's buying CDs and using the interest to buy calls on a big index--say the OEX?

Interest on CDs is paid at maturity.  Do you want to have the clients wait a year or more to do this strategy?  Maybe they should just be in a Money Market account at the Bank. What kind of returns do we get on those deposits.  Seriously.  I haven't checked the bank rates in a few weeks.

That's an easy two step dance--why put them into something that has a lot of moving parts like an annuity?

EIAs no, but for a portion of a client's LONG TERM investments I don't think that a VA is always inappropriate.  If the client is sophisticated enough to understand puts and calls then this would be a viable strategy.  

 [/quote]

How about pentalties coming out after only 17 months? Will I get 100% of my money back after only 17 months?



Your in such a hurry, I said 0 penalties in a C share annuity



What if I don’t know if I’ll need my money. I might, but I don’t know. Is an annuity a good place to put it?



Maybe, maybe not



Why don’t you have your client’s buying CDs and using the interest to buy calls on a big index–say the OEX?



Because I know they will have better returns with mutual funds even inside a VA if they want a guarantee



That’s an easy two step dance–why put them into something that has a lot of moving parts like an annuity?

Just because you don’t understand it, doesn’t mean it’s complicated. I could explain a VA in 5 minutes if someone already understands how mutual funds work.

[quote=babbling looney] [quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=bankrep1]I didn’t say straddles I said buy calls with the interest again and again and again. You cannot lose money my strategy. It is exactly the same thing the insurance company does. As far as the VA goes that depends on if you do an A share, B share, C share etc. It also depends on the performance of the investment you selected. If you might touch the money within a year or two, I would put you in a C share annuity (No CDSC), does that answer your question.[/quote]

How about pentalties coming out after only 17 months? Will I get 100% of my money back after only 17 months?

C share annuity = no CDSC = no early withdrawal penalty. Whether you will get 100% of your money back depends on the sub accounts you have invested in. There is no way I would suggest a VA annuity to someone who has not made the commitment to leave the investment in for longer than 17 months. In fact I wouldn’t suggest you invest in a mutual fund either.

What if I don’t know if I’ll need my money. I might, but I don’t know. Is an annuity a good place to put it?

If you are so unsure as to if you are going to need your money and this risk adverse I would suggest you do not invest and put your money in a CD…or better yet a Folgers coffee can in the back yard. That way you can go and play with your money any time you want to.

Why don’t you have your client’s buying CDs and using the interest to buy calls on a big index–say the OEX?

Interest on CDs is paid at maturity. Do you want to have the clients wait a year or more to do this strategy? Maybe they should just be in a Money Market account at the Bank. What kind of returns do we get on those deposits. Seriously. I haven’t checked the bank rates in a few weeks.

That’s an easy two step dance–why put them into something that has a lot of moving parts like an annuity?

EIAs no, but for a portion of a client’s LONG TERM investments I don’t think that a VA is always inappropriate. If the client is sophisticated enough to understand puts and calls then this would be a viable strategy.

[/quote]

[quote=bankrep1]

That's an easy two step dance--why put them into something that has a lot of moving parts like an annuity?
Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's complicated. I could explain a VA in 5 minutes if someone already understands how mutual funds work.

[/quote]

Just what the world needs a illiterate punk who thinks he knows something.

I have forgotten more about variable annuities than you will ever know--and my question stands.

Why not just buy CDs and purchase calls with the interest--make your own EIA?

After all, the market always goes up so it's a sure way to riches.  No?

And by the way, please learn how to properly use the words your and you're before the end of the day.

[quote=babbling looney]

If the client is sophisticated enough to understand puts and calls then this would be a viable strategy.  

[/quote]

How sophisticated do you have to be for a variable annuity to be appropriate?

For that matter how sophisticated does one have to be to understand puts and calls?

As for using interest on CDs to buy the OEX.  Is it possible to know in advance how much interest you will be earning on a CD?

If so, why could that sum not be used to buy the OEX?  Surely your not saying that all the money the client has is what they used to buy their CD?

Why doesn't everybody do that--buy CDs for safety of principal and buy OEX calls for capital growth?  As "Earnings Always Go Up" hereafter referred to as EAGU--pronounced ego--has told us the market always goes up so that seems like as riskless a strategy as there could be.  Guaranteed return of principal and explosive growth opportunities.

When you have a winning plan it's so easy.  I guess EAGU must be really rich.  Don't you think?

No, stupid, you do not understand VAs.

Nothin' worse than a moron who thinks he's intelligent.

You’re supossed to read this, I don’t do EIA’s:



Because I know they will have better returns with mutual funds even if that’s inside a VA (if they want a guarantee)



You made it clear you don’t know how an EIA works and you refuse to offer any insight into why you think a VA with a living benefit within an IRA is a bad idea, so how do we know you really know more than I forgot.



I have not hidden my infinite wisdom about annuitties even though I don’t feel compelled to answer to you I find it, well satisfying to debate with you & tear apart your stereotypical answers



You sound like the guy who writes in our metro paper. He wrote VA’s are bad bad bad, then one day I open the paper and it says with my blessing I had my wife purchase a VA, now I know I have been telling you these are bad, but now they are good.



You see he finally read one of my many letters or emails that explained why a VA could be helpful, I doubt he even knew about living riders. How it could help someone who is risk adverse or financially uneducated (99.9% of our country) remain invested during a market downturn & achieve long term gains. He probably heard about surrender charges & high commissions and formed an opinion which was obviously wrong and dumb.    

[quote=bankrep1]

I have not hidden my infinite wisdom about annuitties even though I don't feel compelled to answer to you I find it, well satisfying to debate with you & tear apart your stereotypical answers

[/quote]

Why do you suppose the NASD and the SEC have dozens of investigaors and attornies on their staffs for the express purpose of fighting annuity fraud?

What is considered the fastest growing investment fraud in the United States?

Do the critics "just not get it?"  That punks like you, idiot who can't even write an error free sentence, get it but nobody else does.  Is that your point of view?

I think the NASD and SEC have to crack down annuity fraud, because anytime money comes into the picture people will do almost anything to get it. The fact is annuitties do pay high commissions and that probably is not going to go away.



I have seen a 90 year olds entire life savings be invested in a EIA with a 20 year CDSC (why do these products even exist)



I have seen 20 year olds with VA’s & people with high risk tolerances have VA’s in their IRA (Both big no no’s somebodys going to be fined & barred)



I think that is why they are cracking down. Not when they’re used for what they’re supposed to be used for. Kinda of like B shares, I know a guy who got fined for sticking 700K in B shares, he complained about it, and I asked him why he didn’t put it in A shares, he said the guy didn’t want to pay a load upfront (OK), why didn’t he put it in C shares. His answer was I have to eat (wrong answer) next.



I think the NASD and SEC should raise the bar on who can call themselves a financial advisor & who can sell investment products. A bit of education would go a long way I think.



As far as my grammar and typing skills I will say I just don’t spend enough time to go back and structure my sentences properly. You’re the only one whose ever cared and since it pisses you off, well I will continue to just type and not go back and correct things.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=cranky sob]

IF you understood EIA's, which you don't, you would know that if the market falls, you would still be at $100,000. The commissions are 9-10%, not 7%. Also, I get paid that 10% at a 100% payout rate, plus .25% in marketing reimbursement. Pretty neat, ain't it?

[/quote]

So, the investor gets his participation percentage of any increases in the index value, but does not suffer if the market pulls back?

If I give you $100,000 and the market goes straight down for three years then goes up in the fourth year will I be ahead at the end of the fourth year because of the increase in the fourth year?

Or am I still down because of the first three years--and the only way I'll get my $100,000 back is if I don't cash out until some later date?

[/quote]

You are typical of any NASD putz. You don't understand things that you have an opinion about.

Newkid,

I doubt you'll read this, since your thread has degraded into an EID love/hate fest after the second or third post, but here it goes anyway.

First of all, fix yourself some strong coffee and plan to read through some old posts for a couple of hours. You'll have to wade through a lot of (uhhh) stuff, but there are some good marketing tips within the previous posts.

Second, you have to realize that your current marketing plan hasn't worked, isn't working now, and continuing it will only get you fired. (This will establish the proper frame of mind.)

Third, whatever plan you implement, make sure you build on what you've achieved, so far. No sense in reinventing the wheel.

Fourth, establish a pipeline of qualified prospects. Generally, they should be divided into groups. For example, Group 1 would be qualified prospects you've contacted once, Group 2 would be those you've contacted twice, and so on. One marketing book for FA's stated that you can close 80% of those qualified prospects you've contacted 8 times. (Although that percentage is unrealistic {in my opinion}, aiming for it can only build your business.) So, maybe use 8 contacts as your cut-off point.

However, if you're past the point of building your business and you need to start bringing in assets now (i.e., only a couple of months away from being fired), get ready to cold call for 12-14 hours a day, Saturdays and Sundays. Pick only 1 or 2 investment products, become an expert in them, and start calling business owners. If you're located on the west coast, get in at 5-6 AM and start calling the east coast and work your way west and vice versa. 

(Yeah, yeah, I know. Calling on Sundays? A lot of businesses are open on Sundays. Determine which ones are and call them.)

Good luck!

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=bankrep1]

I have not hidden my infinite wisdom about annuitties even though I don't feel compelled to answer to you I find it, well satisfying to debate with you & tear apart your stereotypical answers

[/quote]

That punks like you, idiot who can't even write an error free sentence, get it but nobody else does.  Is that your point of view?

[/quote]

I love the irony!  

In the exact same sentence that NASD IDIOT complains that someone can't write an error free sentence he makes AT LEAST one error.

Can you find it little man?  Do I need to point it out for you?

Thanks for the advice doberman,

I think that it is hard for anyone to get some good quality business in a market like this. I guess it is the dog days of summer.


Oh NASD newbie isn’t ‘investigaors’ supposed to be spelled 'investigators’

I suppose that University of Michigan degree in Financial Engineering is finally paying off.

Newkid,



Summer is tough, but if you work hard you can still pull in business. Also you’re lining up fall prospects. It is all about the pipeline.



Are you still in Michigan?

[quote=bankrep1]Newkid,

Summer is tough, but if you work hard you can still pull in business. Also you're lining up fall prospects. It is all about the pipeline.

[/quote]

And as we all know, earning always go up and as a result the market always goes up.

What, me worry?

You can’t start a sentence with And, even if it’s capitalized. Also the word is earnings not earning.

Noone cares about grammer on a message board, so get off your high horse. We all make mistakes when typing these messages.

[quote=newkid]Anyone have any advice on prospecting, I have been cold calling and trying to network but it just seems that no one wants to listen to me.

I am hoping to have 2mm under management in my first year? Is this a realistic expectation?
[/quote]

You work at MS, your goal is that low and you survived the 50% cut of trainees? Why do I doubt this...

I recently started at MS and if you focus on 2MM you won’t be looked at as a “success” by your managers. My sales manager at our office suggest a goal for year one should be around 10MM, with the 4MM (minimum to keep yourself in the leaders tier) being the bare minumum. Not sure if that’s what you wanted to hear, but hope it helps.