One month

bang doors or bang phones…

Find someone who’ll buy an equity indexed annuity.

Go the top broker in the office and see if he would consider a junior partner. If no, then go down the list.

I agree with Chief…

[quote=Borker Boy]Find someone who’ll buy an equity indexed annuity.

yes.  that is why the cdsc charges usually start at 20% for year 1.

good God.

Can you imagine EVER recommending any other type of investment after being paid on one of these bad boys?  

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If you were starting brand new, no contacts, no rich family… and had 30 days to do $6K gross… what would you do…?

You should find another firm to work for.

Break it down. 6k gross is most likely two 100k accounts that you put into mutual funds at 3 percent gross.
It takes about two weeks to transfer an account and get it invested.
So you have two weeks to find a rollover or an orphaned account. In those two weeks, you have to meet the prospect, set an appointment and then convince them on the first appointment to move their funds. You can then do a second appointment while the money is on the way over to pick the investments.
So you would have to prospect like hell for two weeks and look exclusively for the guy who says, ‘Yeah, I have an old 401k that I need to roll. Here, let me show it to you.’

Or just sell some muni’s and some fixed annuities to people who have CDs coming due…

$240k @ 2.5% on some muni’s

$150K @ 3-4% on some fixed annuities.



Not that hard really, find some people with CDs coming due…

How goes it… I have landed 2 clients in the passed 3 days… Getting checks today for a total of $100K($75K and 25K) from some local banks that wanted to renew their CDs at 2.75% for 5 years… so we got two tax free bonds instead… yielding 6%… maturity 7 years…

You mean to tell me no one on this forum can do $6K gross(not net) in a month…kinda sad…

You mean to tell me no one on this forum can do $6K gross(not net) in a month…kinda sad…

[quote=etj4588] 

So it’s possible then… Some previous posters said not going to happen… i would think if you have 30 days(6 days more than a month, assuming you work saturdays) that you could generate $6k…



$85K in a Pru VA @ 7%(it would suck because no trail, but its gets him there)

$165k in a fixed annuity @4%(American General, Sun Life- both on a 5 year) and if he is indy that is $6k net…



$120K in funds with no breakpoints…



$6k divided by 30 days is $200/day… shouldn’t be too hard to get… But you will have to pound the phones, looking for low hanging fruit(CD buyers, people getting bad service and haven’t heard from their broker, etc…) challenging but not anywhere near impossible…



Second nobody has no connections, your family may not be the investing type, but they have friends, neighbors, neighbors friends…4th of July is coming up go to a couple of parties…

If I realistically only had 1 month, and had a few bucks to spend, I would send out 5000 rate cards with something attractive.  You are sure to get at least a .25% response.  That would mean 10-15 clients very quickly.  Even at 25K per account, that’s 250K+ right out of the shoot.  And chances are, at least one of those people would have 100K+ to put to work.  I bet one postcard mailing of 5000 cards would bring 500-700K quickly.

I would call anyone 55+ and start quoting tax free rates or fixed annuity rates… insured only… bound to get some people coming out of 5% CDs and looking at 2% to renew…

Ok, not brandnew, but with a deadpipeline. How are some of you doing production of $6K a month on new clients?

Private REIT’s.  Some paying 6-6.5% dividends.  Sell them on tax benefits (Not really great actually, but its sort of a tax strategy) and consistent dividends.  Don’t use companies that are highly leveraged or run the risk of cutting off dividends or slashing share value (Inland Western).  Pays you 5%. 

Yeah, just got finished reviewing my sister's accounts.  Her "friendly local home-town RIA" rolled all of her previous 401K money into an IRA (Individual Retirement Annuity) with a 12% over 12 year CDSC.  He also opened two roth's for her and my brother-in-law, and deployed the money 100% into a private REIT with a 16% CDSC.  If you ask me, this is why this industry has ended up where it is.  You guys are wolves in sheep clothing...

Our company doesn't allow us to offer annuities that have more than a 10 year surrender period.  I'm sorry she was put 100% into a REIT for the Roth's.  We are not allowed to put more than 10% of a clients net worth into private REIT's.  There should be more regulation at whatever firm the "friendly RIA" works at, I don't know how someone can get away with putting 100% of multiple accounts into REIT's. 

[quote=Hank Newbie]

Yeah, just got finished reviewing my sister's accounts.  Her "friendly local home-town RIA" rolled all of her previous 401K money into an IRA (Individual Retirement Annuity) with a 12% over 12 year CDSC.  He also opened two roth's for her and my brother-in-law, and deployed the money 100% into a private REIT with a 16% CDSC.  If you ask me, this is why this industry has ended up where it is.  You guys are wolves in sheep clothing...

Is this really that hard?



Land one $600,000 account and drop a ticket for C shares.

[quote=Moraen] [quote=Hank Newbie]

Yeah, just got finished reviewing my sister’s accounts. Her “friendly local home-town RIA” rolled all of her previous 401K money into an IRA (Individual Retirement Annuity) with a 12% over 12 year CDSC. He also opened two roth’s for her and my brother-in-law, and deployed the money 100% into a private REIT with a 16% CDSC. If you ask me, this is why this industry has ended up where it is. You guys are wolves in sheep clothing…

[quote=3rdyrp2]

Our company doesn't allow us to offer annuities that have more than a 10 year surrender period.  I'm sorry she was put 100% into a REIT for the Roth's.  We are not allowed to put more than 10% of a clients net worth into private REIT's.  There should be more regulation at whatever firm the "friendly RIA" works at, I don't know how someone can get away with putting 100% of multiple accounts into REIT's. 

[quote=Hank Newbie][quote=3rdyrp2]

Our company doesn't allow us to offer annuities that have more than a 10 year surrender period.  I'm sorry she was put 100% into a REIT for the Roth's.  We are not allowed to put more than 10% of a clients net worth into private REIT's.  There should be more regulation at whatever firm the "friendly RIA" works at, I don't know how someone can get away with putting 100% of multiple accounts into REIT's. 

[quote=Morphius] [quote=Moraen] [quote=Hank Newbie]

Yeah, just got finished reviewing my sister's accounts.  Her "friendly local home-town RIA" rolled all of her previous 401K money into an IRA (Individual Retirement Annuity) with a 12% over 12 year CDSC.  He also opened two roth's for her and my brother-in-law, and deployed the money 100% into a private REIT with a 16% CDSC.  If you ask me, this is why this industry has ended up where it is.  You guys are wolves in sheep clothing...

Hank, I thought the same thing but what’s so bad about a VA with an income guarantee? Now that I’m responsible for peoples money I think it’s okay to give up a % or two in performance to give them the peace of mind they’ll actually have money to retire on.

It is possible I have that wrong. It is a single advisor independent office. His name with “Wealth Mangagement and Retirement Services” after it and is incorporated as his own business. RIA, or whatever, my sister and brother-in-law had no idea how he was compensated until I let them know. Needless to say, they weren’t happy. She is stuck in that annuity until the CDSC at least comes down to a reasonable level. And depending on what I can dig up on the REIT, it may be the same there. Regardless of the fees, just the fact that he rolled a 401K for a 30 something year old woman into a variable annuity throws up red flags and sets off sirens to me.

[quote=Morphius] [quote=Hank Newbie] It is possible I have that wrong.  It is a single advisor independent office.  His name with “Wealth Mangagement and Retirement Services” after it and is incorporated as his own business.  RIA, or whatever, my sister and brother-in-law had no idea how he was compensated until I let them know.  Needless to say, they weren’t happy.  She is stuck in that annuity until the CDSC at least comes down to a reasonable level.  And depending on what I can dig up on the REIT, it may be the same there.  Regardless of the fees, just the fact that he rolled a 401K for a 30 something year old woman into a variable annuity throws up red flags and sets off sirens to me.

Those who bash advisors who put qualified plans into annuities are too shortsighted to see that tax deferral is not the only selling point of an annuity, or the only reason someone would be interested in investing into an annuity.

[quote=Hank Newbie][quote=Morphius] [quote=Hank Newbie] It is possible I have that wrong.  It is a single advisor independent office.  His name with “Wealth Mangagement and Retirement Services” after it and is incorporated as his own business.  RIA, or whatever, my sister and brother-in-law had no idea how he was compensated until I let them know.  Needless to say, they weren’t happy.  She is stuck in that annuity until the CDSC at least comes down to a reasonable level.  And depending on what I can dig up on the REIT, it may be the same there.  Regardless of the fees, just the fact that he rolled a 401K for a 30 something year old woman into a variable annuity throws up red flags and sets off sirens to me.

Those who bash advisors who put qualified plans into annuities are too shortsighted to see that tax deferral is not the only selling point of an annuity, or the only reason someone would be interested in investing into an annuity.

[quote=3rdyrp2][quote=Hank Newbie][quote=Morphius] [quote=Hank Newbie] It is possible I have that wrong.  It is a single advisor independent office.  His name with “Wealth Mangagement and Retirement Services” after it and is incorporated as his own business.  RIA, or whatever, my sister and brother-in-law had no idea how he was compensated until I let them know.  Needless to say, they weren’t happy.  She is stuck in that annuity until the CDSC at least comes down to a reasonable level.  And depending on what I can dig up on the REIT, it may be the same there.  Regardless of the fees, just the fact that he rolled a 401K for a 30 something year old woman into a variable annuity throws up red flags and sets off sirens to me.

Do you really think a VA inside a Roth IRA is the most efficient way for a 30 year old to save for retirement?  "Yes Mr. Advisor, I'd like to give up 3-4% per year for thirty years."  Don't need or want the death benefit or living benefit.  That's why they have life and disability insurance.  They need growth and tax deferral.  In 30 years when she retires then maybe but not now.  This is why annuity salespeople get a bad name.  Annuities are appropriate in certain circumstances but I will be hard pressed to believe this is best for her.

Me too...the account in question though was an old 401(k) rolled into a VA.  I have no idea of anything about this person, except she's a married female in her 30's.  I couldn't tell you if a VA is appropriate at all for her or not.  I don't condone anything the salesman did, considering the annuity we're talking about it one w/a 12 year CDSC and a REIT with a 16% surrender.  I've never heard of a REIT like that, so this guy has to be shady as hell.  The reason I asked about the living/death benefit is because although the investments are down 36% over the past year, the contract value may be much higher than that as long as the money stays in the annuity.  If I were Hank I'd ask his sister what made them decide to go with the annuity.  Was it the only option given to them?  They signed the paperwork so it'd be nice to know what made them decide "Yes, this sounds like a great idea for my old 401(k)".  Do you have that info, Hank? 

[quote=3rdyrp2]Those who bash advisors who put qualified plans into annuities are too shortsighted to see that tax deferral is not the only selling point of an annuity, or the only reason someone would be interested in investing into an annuity.

[quote=3rdyrp2]

Me too...the account in question though was an old 401(k) rolled into a VA.  I have no idea of anything about this person, except she's a married female in her 30's.  I couldn't tell you if a VA is appropriate at all for her or not.  I don't condone anything the salesman did, considering the annuity we're talking about it one w/a 12 year CDSC and a REIT with a 16% surrender.  I've never heard of a REIT like that, so this guy has to be shady as hell.  The reason I asked about the living/death benefit is because although the investments are down 36% over the past year, the contract value may be much higher than that as long as the money stays in the annuity.  If I were Hank I'd ask his sister what made them decide to go with the annuity.  Was it the only option given to them?  They signed the paperwork so it'd be nice to know what made them decide "Yes, this sounds like a great idea for my old 401(k)".  Do you have that info, Hank? 

You’re probably right. I can’t think of a situation where it would be appropriate for a 30 something woman, but didn’t want to make the generalization in case I wrong. I don’t agree with the idea that annuities were created with insurance company profit in mind. They are very much appropriate in many situations.

They are appropriate in many situations.  But if you think an insurance company is doing it out of the kindness of their heart, you’re wrong.  It’s a business and the purpose of the business is to make money.  Maybe they said “how can we better serve our customers and make money”  but if they couldn’t make money they wouldn’t do it.  We are talking about insurance companies here remember. 

He is new into the business and I take it she wants to do business with him but can’t right now.

I am not a big VA guy, but they certainly have their place, and those who dismiss them out of hand may be doing themselves and certain clients a disservice.

For example, neither jkl1V etc. or Hank Newbie seem to want to address the very common issue of dealing with clients whose risk avoidance is so strong that the only way they will stay invested in equities is to have the living benefits guarantee in most recent VAs.  That is why I said:
[quote=Morphius]  Forget the unnecessary tax deferral canard - today’s
VAs are all about living benefit guarantees. Ask those clients with
living benefit guarantees inside an IRA over the past year or so if
they wish they had been in mutual funds instead.   [/quote]
Living benefits are completely different than death benefits, Hank, so I’m not sure why you would say:
[quote=Hank Newbie]Thought about that too.  I feel soooo much better
knowing that if she dies, my brother-in-law will have that much
more money to blow on his next wife.[/quote]
Do you know what the living benefit is on your sister’s VA? 

Moving on.

[quote=jkl1v1n6]Do you really think a VA inside a Roth IRA is the most efficient way for a 30 year old to save for retirement?  [/quote]
The VA is in a traditional IRA, not a Roth.   REITS are in the Roths. 

[quote=jkl1v1n6]Don’t need or want the death benefit or living benefit.  That’s why they have life and disability insurance.  [/quote]
I don’t know about your client base but I have yet to meet many people who don’t “need or want” death benefit, or more death benefit, especially those who are rated or uninsurable, and none who don’t want the guarantee of living benefits.   The only issue is whether the cost is worth the benefit - many think it is.  Many are perfectly happy to pay an insurance premium in order to insure some portion of their assets.  Who are you to tell them that is not “efficient?” 

And disability insurance has nothing to do with the typical VA purchaser, and I’m not sure why you would even bring it up in this context.  Apples and oranges: two different tools, protecting two different things.

[quote=jkl1v1n6]They need growth and tax deferral.  In 30 years when she retires then maybe but not now.  [/quote]
Perhaps if you assume the client’s marginal tax rate will be lower in retirement - an assumption which may or may not turn out to be accurate, as we cannot know the future.  Ask your client if they think it is likely the tax rates themselves are likely to go lower or higher in the future, especially with all the new government debt we are leaving for our children to pay.  It’s certainly possible that you could be leading them to defer taxes only to find they will have a larger tax hit because of it.  It may not happen, but the point is we won’t know for a long time, so don’t be too quick to simply accept the common assumptions.  Think for yourself.

[quote=jkl1v1n6]This is why annuity salespeople get a bad name.  Annuities are appropriate in certain circumstances but I will be hard pressed to believe this is best for her.[/quote]
Any product misused can be a problem, but it’s equally wrong to say that a product itself is always and inescapably bad because some recommend or sell it when perhaps they shouldn’t.  Don’t confuse the product with the seller of the product.  If you take that approach, they should make cars illegal, and those who sell them crooks, as they kill thousands each year.  And don’t even get me started on motorcycles …

[quote=jkl1v1n6]I think you do have enough information.  Investor in
their 30’s with qualified money.  25-30 years before she will use the
money.  NO WAY a VA is appropriate.   [/quote]
That is an opinion, not a statement of fact.  For example, you give zero weight to the behavior modification value of VA living benefits, especially with the heightened fears people have over “losing everything” in these crazy markets.  If the only way to get her to invest in equities for long term growth is to use a VA with the higher costs they entail, and the alternative is cash or money market where she will lose real purchasing power, it is certainly appropriate.  It is only inappropriate if you assume that investors have the ability to invest and act rationally and without emotions.  The last year has once again shown the folly of that misconception with many clients.

Finally, I presume 3rdyrp2 (below) meant to talk about putting an annuity inside an IRA, and not vice versa. 

[quote=3rdyrp2]  
By bolding the word “annuity” you came across as someone who has a
problem with putting an IRA inside an annuity.  Most people who don’t
like the idea of an IRA inside an annuity use the reasoning of “Why
would we need an annuity if the IRA is already tax-deferred?”.  [/quote]

Yeah, just got finished reviewing my sister’s accounts. Her “friendly local home-town RIA” rolled all of her previous 401K money into an IRA (Individual Retirement Annuity) with a 12% over 12 year CDSC. He also opened two roth’s for her and my brother-in-law, and deployed the money 100% into a private REIT with a 16% CDSC. If you ask me, this is why this industry has ended up where it is. You guys are wolves in sheep clothing…

I echo morphius’ post… I used to be against all VAs(former Jones, i think we are programmed to believe they are bad) however as I have left them I find plenty of places to use them… Clients who need to be in equities but will never be without some guarantee. Clients who need the income because they didn’t save enough for retirement. There are tons more examples, as Morphius said, VAs need to be evaluated on a case by case basis…



Though they do get a bad rap because a lot of unqualified insurance guys sell them

[quote=Morphius] I am not a big VA guy, but they certainly have their place, and those who dismiss them out of hand may be doing themselves and certain clients a disservice.

For example, neither jkl1V etc. or Hank Newbie seem to want to address the very common issue of dealing with clients whose risk avoidance is so strong that the only way they will stay invested in equities is to have the living benefits guarantee in most recent VAs.  That is why I said:

Rather than get into an even more convoluted and hard to follow blow-by-blow response, jkl1v1n6, suffice it to say we do not share the same opinions on the VA issue or on client management. 

You concede that your reasoning is a large generalization based on opinion rather than fact, yet you are adamant that no 30 year old should ever buy an annuity, except in “EXTREME” circumstances which you have apparently never encountered. 

You apparently cannot conceive of any 30 year old legitimately being more - or less - risk averse that the typical 30 year old, and
see it as your duty to “explain away [their] irrational thinking.”  In this you confuse typical with rational: just because one person may be more risk averse than what may be typical, it does not necessarily follow that they are therefore irrational.

But I won’t waste my breath belaboring this.  Instead I’ll just repeat and emphasize what I said earlier:
[quote=Morphius]
I am not a big VA guy, but they certainly have their place, and those
who dismiss them out of hand may be doing themselves and certain
clients a disservice.[/quote]

I agree with everything that Morphius has said in this thread.

[quote=anonymous]I agree with everything that Morphius has said in this thread.

If you were starting brand new, no contacts, no rich family… and had 30 days to do $6K gross… what would you do…?

[quote=BerkshireBull] [quote=anonymous]I agree with everything that Morphius has said in this thread.

Putting the money into a fee based account and charging 1% a year will net me far more than the annuity.   The commission is nice, but it’s not about that.

And the commission is nice too

Do you work for free?

I am looking to do an additional $4k this by july 31st. Anybody have some ideas that are working in their market for drumming up new business/

4k by the end of July?? What is your year-end goal?

An additional $4K. not just $4K… I have mostly feebased accounts that pay quarterly but I am looking to add an additional $4k this month from non-fee accts.

Fixed Annuities are very competitive vs. CDs in my market.  Add onto that tax-deferral, creditor protection, and ability to annuitize, and it could be attractive to your conservative clients. 

What companies are you using?

It doesn’t matter.  You don’t know my market, I don’t know yours.  Go to your firm’s insurance department, get the one-pager on FA rates, compare to your local CDs.

Thanks…