Northwestern Mutual

NML (or as they wanted to be known NMFN) is pretty much as cultish as
Ed Jones.  I might be the only person in history to have worked
for both of them.  I would not recommend anyone go to NML,
ever.  You will not only be a life insurance agent, but a NML
agent, meaning you will ONLY sell Northwestern Mutual policies. 
You will be about as captive as they come.  There are SO many
reasons I would advise you to go elsewhere, but can go into detail via
PM if you want.  

I would like to contradict theironhorse’s statement. NMFN has a great training program and this is where there is value to working there. At NMFN you will learn to sell, and therefore it is a great place to go if you are new to the industry. They have a good product platform and if it’s your niche, that’s great. If you don’t like working there, at least you learned to sell and you can take that skillset to another firm/wirehouse.

But why waste time there selling proprietary products?  I highy
doubt anyone trying to build a true planning practice would fit the nml
"niche."  You can find the same quality of training at many other
places.  My opinion is that what he/she learns on the selling side
will not be worth what is given up in the culture.  He will spend
his whole time trying to figure out whether a whole life policy truly
does fit every situation as they say, and then never be able to take
those client policies with him when the realizes he had been doing
wrong.

I spent a year as an NMF intern in college.  It is very cultish.  They teach you that their whole life product is the end all be all of financial solutions, and to give people the opportunity to purchase it is a of the highest calling.

You are not truly captive at NWM.  There are quotas of Northwestern you must meet, but you are not captive in that you can use outside products through a third party brokerage...in fact, many agents in the office I interned at were FORCED to use other products at times due to Northwestern's ultra stringent underwriting.  They simply had to be appointed with another insurance brokerage that could shop out the policies for them.  By the way, this was always a dirty little secret...everyone had to do it, but you NEVER talked about it in a "public setting" because not selling Northwestern was viewed by management like selling snake oil instead of holy water.

I could go on and on, but I have to meet with some folks.  Hope this helps.

new2it, I don't know why you would put ameriprise in the same basket as nylife, & nwmutual.  I'm a franchisee of amp, so I'm biased.

ameriprise is not captive, except for their annuities although their VAs are some of the best in the industry from what I've seen, for expense and investment choice.

There's a focus on comprehensive financial planning, and the firm has the most CFPs of any firm in the world.  what sort of Licensing/Credentials are you expected to get at NWmutual or NYlife?  I really don't know, but it seems that noone from NWMutual that I compete with even has a series 7, let alone a 66.  I did meet a NYLife guy who had a CFP designation, though.

Also, at ameriprise you "own" your practice and clients, as a franchisee, although that probably wouldn't be true for a person starting out and going through their training program, which seems to have a negative image.  I would recommend working for a successful franchisee that will hire you to take over his "smaller" clients.

I think the question is, do you want to be a financial advisor (your title at ameriprise after you get the licenses), or an insurance salesperson?

Sorry, I don’t mean to say that those companies only sell insurance, and ameriprise only helps clients with financial planning.  nothing is ever that cut & dried, of course.

[quote=Big Taco]

Also, at ameriprise you “own” your practice and clients, as a franchisee, although that probably wouldn’t be true for a person starting out and going through their training program, which seems to have a negative image.  I would recommend working for a successful franchisee that will hire you to take over his “smaller” clients.

I think the question is, do you want to be a financial advisor (your title at ameriprise after you get the licenses), or an insurance salesperson?

[quote=Big Taco]Sorry, I don't mean to say that those companies only sell insurance, and ameriprise only helps clients with financial planning.  nothing is ever that cut & dried, of course.[/quote]

AMEXSUX and you know it.  Is it not bad enough that you had to sell all your friends and family crappy VULs and Riversource funds?  Why would you try to tell this person that Ameriprise is a financial planning firm.

You need to go to RJ, AGE, SB, UBS,or ML.  They will treat you well, if you have the stuff.

And since when does Ameriprise "own" their book?  That is an outright lie.  You cannot take your clients and start your own practice at another firm if you like.  Ameriprise will hunt you like a dog and throw all of their lawyers at you.

The firms above have all signed an agreement that if their FAs want to leave, they can do so and take their clients.  That is how confident they are about their FAs staying.

Ameriprise ?  You don't even get a computer there.

[quote=vbrainy]

The firms above have all signed an agreement that if their FAs want to leave, they can do so and take their clients.  That is how confident they are about their FAs staying.

[/quote]

LOL, I doubt Mother Merrill would like her children taking their clients with them.

NYL and NWM are two of the greatest companies in the country in any industry.  They have been around for 150 years with top notch 3rd party ratings.  Their products are excellent.  Both companies have some reps who make 7 and 8 figure incomes.   Mutality is important when it comes to insurance.  I think very highly of both of these companies.  However, as a rep, they have a huge drawback...

Only their reps can sell their products.  This is an advantage when you are in competition.  "I can sell his product, but he can't sell mine."  On the other hand, if you look at your career, this is a HUGE negative.  At some point, you will probably make a company change for one reason or another.  Maybe, you'll want to go independent.  Maybe, you want to switch B/D's.  Maybe... The reason doesn't matter.  The problem is not only can't you service your existing clients, but there is no way to convert their insurance policies.  

NYL and NWM agents make lots (most?) of their money by selling term insurance and then converting the policies to permanent insurance over time.  Conversions are very easy sales that are very profitable.  When you leave, there is no way to convert these policies, thus you may be leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table.

(Although I speak very highly of these companies on the insurance side, I can't do so on the investment side.  I just don't know enough to speak positively or negatively.)

provide some feed back about every day life at NW Mutual. as some people have mentioned, the company does have a cultish feel.  After all, how does a company get agents to pay their own way to Milwaukee in the summertime.   The key, though, is the local agency.  This is at least equally important as the company.

Do not take a job at any of the firms that you have mentioned without interviewing also with Guardian and Mass Mutual.   Mass Mutual especially has the positives without the negatives, but the local agency still is what matters.

My comments "apply to" P2.  I'm a franchisee.  it's what about 70% of ameriprise financial advisors are.  the focus of my particular firm is fee based asset management and comprehensive planning. 

I agree with you on P1, as I alluded to in my previous post.  about 30% of amp advisors are P1. 

I was not discussing P3.

I am currently working at NMFN and I like it so far. I really think when it comes to them, your experience will all depend on what kind of office you’re in. Mine happens to be a great working environment and they provided excellent training. I chose this route because I dont have a large natural market, and certainly none of any high net worth. Its much easier to make it in the insurance field your first few years than it is at a wirehouse. As for the comment that NMFN agents dont have series 7s or CFP designations, that is not true. There are many CFPs at my office and I am currently studying for my 7. Dont get me wrong, they do emphasize insurance over investments, especially the first 6 months (actually they dont even allow you to obtain your licenses until after 6 mos). But after that you can make your business how you see fit. I too interviewed at Ameriprise, but turned them down after being told that I would have to pay all exam costs out of pocket and that I would have to share computers with other new reps. No thanks.

do NOT go work for an insurance company. go to a wirehouse and get trained properly.

[quote=vbrainy]

[quote=Big Taco]Sorry, I don't mean to say that those companies only sell insurance, and ameriprise only helps clients with financial planning.  nothing is ever that cut & dried, of course.[/quote]

AMEXSUX and you know it.  Is it not bad enough that you had to sell all your friends and family crappy VULs and Riversource funds? 

Do we know each other?  I hope not.  but If we did, you would know that I don't sell much VUL.  Also, most of the investment products I recommend go through a filter, then further objective analysis.  I offer my clients as much objectivity as I am capable of.

Why would you try to tell this person that Ameriprise is a financial planning firm.

maybe because it has the most Certified Financial Planners of any firm in the world?

You need to go to RJ, AGE, SB, UBS,or ML.  They will treat you well, if you have the stuff.

are those the 5 national firms that you HAVEN'T failed at yet?

And since when does Ameriprise "own" their book?  That is an outright lie.  You cannot take your clients and start your own practice at another firm if you like.  Ameriprise will hunt you like a dog and throw all of their lawyers at you.

and now you're calling me a liar?  it's standard practice for an advisor to sell his/her practice.  And when did I write that the practice can be sold to external companies?  Take a breath, try to get some oxygen to your remaining brain cells, and read for comprehension.

a practice can be sold to any other P2 advisor.  There are about ten thousand of them out there, all across the country.  It's not difficult for advisors to sell, usually.  Also, ameriprise is pretty good about already having the apparatus in place to help valuate and facilitate the selling/buying process.  it's pretty seamless, and doesn't require the ACATing, haggling, waiting, that comes with client transfers between firms.

Are there firms out there that hand over a book of business to a competiter on a velvet pillow?  how about with no account transfer fees?  I really don't know, so I'm asking.  maybe you should ask more questions when you don't know what you're talking about, vbrainy.

The firms above have all signed an agreement that if their FAs want to leave, they can do so and take their clients.  That is how confident they are about their FAs staying.

sure.

Ameriprise ?  You don't even get a computer there.

No, ameriprise doesn't send me a new thinkpad every year.  I have to buy that myself.  they also don't pay my rent, staff's salaries, nor buy my supplies, etc....

[/quote]

vbrainy, you act like you got up and smoked a few bongs today.

The same old tired, pissing contest about whose ka ka smells, and doesn't.

Can't you see you are being victimized at a broader level?

[quote=Big Taco][quote=vbrainy]

[quote=Big Taco]Sorry, I don't mean to say that those companies only sell insurance, and ameriprise only helps clients with financial planning.  nothing is ever that cut & dried, of course.[/quote]

AMEXSUX and you know it.  Is it not bad enough that you had to sell all your friends and family crappy VULs and Riversource funds? 

Do we know each other?  I hope not.  but If we did, you would know that I don't sell much VUL.  Also, most of the investment products I recommend go through a filter, then further objective analysis.  I offer my clients as much objectivity as I am capable of.

Why would you try to tell this person that Ameriprise is a financial planning firm.

maybe because it has the most Certified Financial Planners of any firm in the world?

You need to go to RJ, AGE, SB, UBS,or ML.  They will treat you well, if you have the stuff.

are those the 5 national firms that you HAVEN'T failed at yet?

And since when does Ameriprise "own" their book?  That is an outright lie.  You cannot take your clients and start your own practice at another firm if you like.  Ameriprise will hunt you like a dog and throw all of their lawyers at you.

and now you're calling me a liar?  it's standard practice for an advisor to sell his/her practice.  And when did I write that the practice can be sold to external companies?  Take a breath, try to get some oxygen to your remaining brain cells, and read for comprehension.

a practice can be sold to any other P2 advisor.  There are about ten thousand of them out there, all across the country.  It's not difficult for advisors to sell, usually.  Also, ameriprise is pretty good about already having the apparatus in place to help valuate and facilitate the selling/buying process.  it's pretty seamless, and doesn't require the ACATing, haggling, waiting, that comes with client transfers between firms.

Are there firms out there that hand over a book of business to a competiter on a velvet pillow?  how about with no account transfer fees?  I really don't know, so I'm asking.  maybe you should ask more questions when you don't know what you're talking about, vbrainy.

The firms above have all signed an agreement that if their FAs want to leave, they can do so and take their clients.  That is how confident they are about their FAs staying.

sure.

Ameriprise ?  You don't even get a computer there.

No, ameriprise doesn't send me a new thinkpad every year.  I have to buy that myself.  they also don't pay my rent, staff's salaries, nor buy my supplies, etc....

[/quote]

[/quote]

amerijoke is an insurance company disguised as a "financial planning firm"

do NOT go work for an insurance company. go to a wirehouse and get trained properly.

Go to a wirehouse and get trained to take over assets, but learn virtually nothing about insurance.

Go to an insurance company and get trained to sell insurance, but learn virtually nothing about taking over assets.

What's the best career route?  It really depends on the individual.  The fact that I sell lots of insurance, for instance, makes a wirehouse a terrible place for me since the business would go through the grid.  I also like that my payout is much higher than it would be at a wirehouse.

It's also much easier to make a good living in the early years on the insurance side.  Is this a concern for the original poster?  Personally, I would have failed if I had to meet the wirehouse hurdles when I started my career.

All your insurance goes through the grid?  Is this because you are
wirehouse and not indy?  I will say you def want to learn about
insurance(s), but stay clear of the insurance companies themselves.

theironhorse, you misread my post.  I said that at a  wirehouse the insurance business would go through the grid.   

[quote=trisyn]I chose this route because I dont have a large natural market, and certainly none of any high net worth. Its much easier to make it in the insurance field your first few years than it is at a wirehouse.[/quote]

Isn't the first requirement of the NWMFN interview to bring in a list of 200 of your "closest" friends?

You will be embarrased at the end of a couple months (which is as long as you'll last) when you see the havoc you have wreaked on your uncles' and former coworkers' portfolios by selling them expensive and worthless ULs and whole life. You are nothing but an insurance salesman and don't forget it.

a couple of corrections: yes we are told to come up with a list of people from our natural market. But never are we forced or encouraged to call on them. My list was way less than 200…didnt matter. And on the topic of ULs, we are taught that they are not right for most clients, especially VULs and as a matter of fact, we just started carrying these products. I dont mind people saying negative things about the company, just please get your facts straight before doing so.

Oh and you are not asked to bring in a list during the interview, it is only after you’ve gone through training.

... the havoc you have wreaked on your uncles' and former coworkers' portfolios by selling them expensive and worthless ULs and whole life. You are nothing but an insurance salesman and don't forget it.

farotech, if you believe your post, you lack of knowledge is an embarrassment.  I have NEVER run across a Northwestern Mutual client who owns a UL policy.  Also, a GOOD life insurance salesman makes a much more positive difference in the lives of their clients than an asset gatherer.  Most people are underinsured and additionally, it is rare that I come across someone  who would not benefit from owning some whole life insurance. 

Trisyn, embrace being an insurance salesman.  You make a difference.

So insurance selling is noble. Then don't label yourself a "financial representative" or whatever, because your job is to do one thing: sell whole life to get max payout.

There used to be an entire site (nmsucks.com) that documented the horrific treatment of NM Mutual and the shoddy "financial advice" (i.e. buy insurance) that NM Mutual gives out. It appears that the site has been taken down. 

farotech, again, your lack of knowledge continues. 

If a Northwestern person can't use a title like "financial representative", then I guess that a wirehouse rep should only be using the title "asset gatherer". 

The truth is that some people at wirehouses concentrate on insurance and some people at insurance companies concentrate on investments.  Plenty of people have well rounded practices despite their place of employment.  Northwestern is like any other company.  They have some excellent reps and some terrible ones.

A website means nothing.  Someone can start a website "Farotech Sucks", it doesn't make it true.  The Northwestern Mutual website got taken down because the person behind the site was a fired employee.  The site was his attempt to solicit lawsuits against the company.  He lost a lawsuit for tens of millions of dollars and the court forced him to take down his bogus site.

I am not a Northwestern Mutual agent.

There are plenty of insurance salesmen at wirehouses. However, those same reps have the ability to sell any fund in the world, whereas NW Mutual reps can sell, what, one family? That's what bugs me about insurance salesmen. Their job is to push whole life insurance, yet they represent themselves as financial advisors, even when they have limited fund families (or just one fund family) to choose from. Most of them can't even sell individual stocks and bonds, or etfs, or anything else but insurance and mutual funds. Someone who can't even sell the vast majority of financial products is not a financial advisor.

another correction: although we have 5 preferred fund families, we are free to choose from thousands of funds. Those with 7s (which makes up a large part of my office) do sell individual stocks and bonds. Like i mentioned in my previous post, there is a significant emphasis put on insurance (LI, DI, LTC) but once you are licensed, you are free to run your business as you like with whatever product you see fit.

farotech, Argue any point that you'd like, but use accurate information.  Northwestern Reps, like reps of any B/D can sell any fund in which their B/D has a selling arrangement.  I know very little about their B/D, but I can tell you that I've been in competition with their reps and the clients have had varied fund holdings and stocks and bonds. 

Their job is to help their clients and make as much money as possible.  This seems to be pretty identical to a wirehouse rep.

[quote=anonymous]

Their job is to help their clients and make as
much money as possible.  This seems to be pretty identical to a
wirehouse rep.

I am in 100% agreement that the core business of NML is selling insurance. 

"An NML reps job is to help the company make as much money as possible. Making money for clients and themselves is "purely incidental" as SEC says." 

What are you trying to say?  It is the same for all registered reps.  I don't know of any registered rep who has as their #1 goal to make money for their B/D.  Many have the goal of doing what is in their clients' best interest.  Others have the goal of doing what is in their own best interest.   Never have I met an RR that is trying to maximize B/D profit.

"NML reps main line of work is selling NML's participating WL."

As a blanket statement, it simply isn't true.  It depends on the specific rep.  It is true for many reps.

They also rep for NML's proprietary funds and insurance products.

That's true, but they also rep for non-proprietary fund and non-proprietary insurance products.

I would GUESS that NML reps who are properly licensed could work on a fee basis through their corporate RIA.

I'm not trying to defend them, but we should be posting accurate information.  Most people at insurance company B/D's are insurance salesman.  Most people at wirehouses are asset gatherers.  However, what most people do doesn't have much relevance.  It's about the individual and what the individual does.  I know someone at a wirehouse who only sells insurance.  I know someone at an insurance B/D who only gathers assets.  I know plenty of people at both who concentrate on fee-based financial planning.

[quote=farotech]

There are plenty of insurance salesmen at wirehouses. However, those same reps have the ability to sell any fund in the world, whereas NW Mutual reps can sell, what, one family? That's what bugs me about insurance salesmen. Their job is to push whole life insurance, yet they represent themselves as financial advisors, even when they have limited fund families (or just one fund family) to choose from.

This is the difference between being a "captured agent" and an independent who can contract with just about anyone they want and an agent at a B/D with selling agreements with many insurance companies.  This also one of the main reasons I utimately chose the independent route for my business.

Most of them can't even sell individual stocks and bonds, or etfs, or anything else but insurance and mutual funds. Someone who can't even sell the vast majority of financial products is not a financial advisor.

I find that a good insurance agent can provide some very valuable financial advice on strategies, that the client will not get from their investment representative.  Buy sell funding, estate equalization, wealth transfer techniques etc which are all typically funded by insurance products.  You don't see very many representatives at broker dealers approaching clients on these issues.

It's unfair to say that just because someone doesn't sell stocks, bonds and ETFs they are not doing financial planning.   There are people who hold a series 7 and are definitely NOT financial planners.

I work for Northwestern but am likely going to a wirehouse soon as I feel it is an important step in my career development. However, I would like to know if Dust Bunny is correct with wealth transfer techniques and if a NM agent can do a GRAT? Thanks for your help.