Negotiating Initial wage with Edward Jones
Hey guys, first off I just accepted a position Edward Jones, and I had a very specific question. Does anyone know of anyone who has been able to successfully negotiate a higher hourly rate for the Study for Success Program, and KYC?
It seems to me like it would be negotiable since it is supposedly based on your previous work.
I scoured this forum pretty extensively and could not find an answer to this question, so if it has been discussed before I apologize.
Also, in my scouring I have realized that there are a few very vocal haters of Edward Jones in these forums. I understand why you hate them, and I respect it. But I am looking for some legitimate help, so if all you are going to do is trash talk Edward Jones you’re really wasting your time. I know why you hate them, and all you do is repeat yourselves over and over again in every thread.
I hope you are asking purely out of curiousity if you’ve ALREADY ACCEPTED…but yes, it is negotiable - or at least it was in my case. What wasn’t negotiable despite my attempts was the contract (i.e. the non-solicit covenant and the training costs, etc.). Thanks to this board I quickly learned these items were more or less common in the industry and decided to accept.
It's also important to note that you will be paid overtime 2-5 hours a week for the at least the first 8 weeks so that's kind of nice. If you' haven't accepted and are looking to increase your rate - good luck!Well I suppose I haven’t technically accepted. They sent me the packet, but I haven’t sent it back yet. So any tips on negotiating with them? I’m fresh out of college, so I don’t have much leverage.
Fresh out of college? Is that with or without work experience? I know guys that held legit 8-5 m-f jobs during college while going to night class and they got hired at a higher rate because they had PROFESSIONAL experience of some sort. If you didn’t work or just worked at Kinkos/Starbucks/Gas Station, I wouldn’t expect much. It also depends heavily on your location. Answers to the above variables are needed to determine if you’re getting a fair rate or not. Only you have the answers. Just having a 4 year degree isn’t that big of a deal because tons of GREAT salespeople (that’s what we are at jones really) are without “higher education.” If you truly believe you deserve X number of dollars per hour or year, then try to build a case and contact your hiring contact person in St. Louis. Doesn’t hurt to ask, just make sure you have something to back you up, you know?
No, I have no professional work experience. Do you think its worth it to ask? I’m getting $9.72/hr, and it just seems really low to me.
When I started in 2000, they paid 1500 per month while you studied for the series 7 and 63,now 66, and increased you to 2000 per month. When you got your can sell you got the salary plus commissions. In addition you received 50 for new funded accounts. The salary was taken away after one year. I thought that it was much better now based on some recent posts. you might research some old posts for more accurate starting salary info. I can't believe they still are paying 1500 dollars per month which is about what 9,72 per hour equates to for 40 hours per week.
You’re fresh out of college with no professional work experience and you think you deserve a higher pay than what they are offering?!?!
It's this exact sense of entitlement that causes so many young brokers to fail.I agree with SNAG, bottom line you are starting at the bottom. You are going to starve for a couple of years. This the reason that you need some serious cash stashed. They don’t care who you are unless you are coming from a major competitor, in which case they will find a significant office to give just to get bragging rights, You are a beginner so just accept it and plan on it.
One additional thing that I might prepare you for is that if you expect any classy treament during your training sessions, forget it. I almost quit when I went to KYC because the rooms were so tiny(and two in a room) and food was so bad that I could not believe I was working for a Wall street firm. I don’t know anything about Tempe, but be prepared for les than first class accomodations if you go to St. Louis. You really are a second class citizen until you reach at least segment 3.
Tell Jones that you will accept nothing less than a room at the Ritz for training, a salary of 10,000 per month and all the caviar that you can eat…
Come on man, no work experience and you are complaining about 9.72 an hour. Prove yourself and then make some money for the value that you provide. Good luck!!I started in 2/07…this is my second career…I worked in a Bank for 10 years but never was licensed or worked in the market…keep in mind that i also work in a very high income area…they started me at $37k (decreasing each quarter until 1 year when it disappears)…plus the bonus structure mentioned throughout this thread. Didn’t think it was negotiable but then again, I realized I was getting a pretty good deal…oh btw…studying was something like 12-14 bucks/hour…
Thanks for the replies. I never said that I deserved more, or ritzy treatment, but if I could get more, why wouldn’t I?
DrayCoxx ,
Some ideas to perhaps review in your thought process. I am currently in the process of being interviewed by several Financial Firms. I am a Career Changer and currently have a Management and Sales fucntion with my employer. In all cases , if I was to accept a position , I would be earning less than my current annual income. Here are my thoughts/opinions : 1) Your interviewed with EJ , 2) You went throught the process and 3) A verbal offer was made and to confirm the firm forwarded the Offer Of Employment. Now you think is the time to see if you can squeeze a few more dollars from them????? Not a brillant career move or tactic. Let me review , you are just out of college , no professional work experience and you are bringing what assets to the firm? I do not want to sound harsh....this is very similar to new hires that I have been involved with: 1) Higher Income , 2) More Vacation Time , 3) Better Benefit Packages and 4) Perks....my comment to them is rather simple PRODUCE for the company and then we can discuss these matters. Do what you wish and I do wish you all the best BUT I do suggest that you produce results before asking for something that you have not yet earned.Many of these people have an interesting take when they are critcal of you expecting to earn more than $9.72 per hour. When I was just out of college, I would have had a difficult time accepting a wage that I could have made by working at a fast food restaurant as a high school drop out. Granted, you will have the opportunity to earn some commissions, but I can’t blame you for having a sense of “entitlement” since you have shown the ability to complete a task that many people have not been able to complete by successfully finishing school. I would think of you as a small cap growth stock. Just because you haven’t necessarily had recent earnings doesn’t mean that the market won’t offer you a higher price for your shares because of the potential growth opportunities you present in the future.
We pay our interns more then 9.72 per hour.
I don’t see how you aren’t making at least 30K a year base.
Interesting comments … Anyone new to a company such as EJ or similar should consider this as an apprenticeship … the rewards will come later on, when they prove they can made the grade. In my opinion, new inexperienced graduates are not entitled to the same as a seasoned professional who has a proven record of success.
The only thing a new graduate can show is that they managed to get through college, this is not the same as running your own business and showing a track record of success.What?! Tell me you're kidding. When you are fresh out of college, you are literally at the bottom. Your "potential" means nothing besides you just got hired. The failure rate is so high, it is what it is. So you did well in your sociology class...does that give you good potential? How does graduating college mean that you should have a sense of entitlement? If he didn't graduate college, his chances of getting hired are less than that of a sperm living in a hot tub. He has no experience. I'm really hoping your post was sarcastic.Many of these people have an interesting take when they are critcal of you expecting to earn more than $9.72 per hour. When I was just out of college, I would have had a difficult time accepting a wage that I could have made by working at a fast food restaurant as a high school drop out. Granted, you will have the opportunity to earn some commissions, but I can’t blame you for having a sense of “entitlement” since you have shown the ability to complete a task that many people have not been able to complete by successfully finishing school. I would think of you as a small cap growth stock. Just because you haven’t necessarily had recent earnings doesn’t mean that the market won’t offer you a higher price for your shares because of the potential growth opportunities you present in the future.
Dray,
I would negotiate. I wouldn't want $9.72 or some crappy first year salary. This salary stuff is so backwards to my way of thinking. We get paid to produce. That's it. Instead of asking for more salary, I would try to negotiate for less in exchange for a higher commission rate. This is the wrong business if you want to get something for nothing. You either have an employer mentality or an employee mentality. You need an employer mentality to succeed. You sound as if you are ready to think of yourself as a Jones employee. I hope that I'm wrong for your sake.[quote=anonymous]
Dray,
I would negotiate. I wouldn't want $9.72 or some crappy first year salary. This salary stuff is so backwards to my way of thinking. We get paid to produce. That's it. Instead of asking for more salary, I would try to negotiate for less in exchange for a higher commission rate. This is the wrong business if you want to get something for nothing. You either have an employer mentality or an employee mentality. You need an employer mentality to succeed. You sound as if you are ready to think of yourself as a Jones employee. I hope that I'm wrong for your sake.[/quote]Whoa, once the commissions start kicking in I have no problem working my ass for money that I EARNED. But this hourly wage that I am talking about is during the 4 month training period, where I CAN'T sell anything, or make any other income of any kind. This $9.72/hr is all I have to live on, and it does seem really low to me.
To put it into perspective, the minimum wage here is $8.07. I currently make $12.37/hr working at the university dining center. SO getting hired by Edward Jones, for my career I am taking a significant decrease in salary. I do understand that it will increase significantly later on, much more than I would ever make at the dining center, but still $9.72/hr for 4 months ridiculously low to me.
I don't think that because I have a college education I deserve more or anything. I think people with professional experience should definitely make a higher wage, and the only person I should be making more than is someone who dropped out of college, and has no professional experience. Regardless though, I still think $9.72 is low.
To people saying it is too late to negotiate, I am curious why you think that? I just got the hiring packet, and I haven’t signed anything yet. SO right now they have extended the offer, and I haven’t accepted yet.
I don’t know when a better time would be. They flat out refused to talk about an hourly wage before, saying that it is based on location, and experience, and they don’t calculate it until they decide to offer someone a job.
So there is no way I could have negotiated it before since I didn’t know what it would be. So I don’t see how this could possibly be too late since I haven’t had an opportunity to until now.
Here is a strange, but perhaps useless piece of advice I got from someone early on. Tell the Travel Department you are a smoker (doesn’t matter if you are or aren’t) and you will get your own room at the hotel. Otherwise you will need to bunk with someone else when you go to KYC. As for the salary, you may wish to reconsider the whole thing and go out and get some work and life experience first. It is a tough business, and most people that try to take it for their first job don’t survive (some do). All of your work (and probably family since they will be your first clients) will end up with their assets at Jones while you go off and decide what to do with your life. That is not Jones slamming, it would be the same advice I would give anyone at any firm. Go off and live, learn, and have fun. Come back in 5 years if you are still interested.
If the financial world is your interest, start at a bank with a decent salary and a 9-5 schedule. See if you like the industry before you spend 14 hours a day for the next 5 years.Draycoxx, I don’t know how the Jones system works, but I agree with you that if you have to work for them for 4 months and can’t earn anything, $9.72 is too low. What do you do for 4 months? If you take the studying seriously, you can pass your exams in 30 days.
"If the financial world is your interest, start at a bank with a decent salary and a 9-5 schedule. See if you like the industry before you spend 14 hours a day for the next 5 years." I couldn't disagree more with this one. Going to the bank and taking a 9-5 salary job will teach him how to be an employee and will give him virtually nothing in terms of a useable skill to become a successful advisor. A much better career move would be to get an outside sales job of some sort. (Draycoxx, I'm not giving you that advice. I'm just saying that it's better experience than being at the bank.)[quote=new_indy]Here is a strange, but perhaps useless piece of advice I got from someone early on. Tell the Travel Department you are a smoker (doesn’t matter if you are or aren’t) and you will get your own room at the hotel. Otherwise you will need to bunk with someone else when you go to KYC. As for the salary, you may wish to reconsider the whole thing and go out and get some work and life experience first. It is a tough business, and most people that try to take it for their first job don’t survive (some do). All of your work (and probably family since they will be your first clients) will end up with their assets at Jones while you go off and decide what to do with your life. That is not Jones slamming, it would be the same advice I would give anyone at any firm. Go off and live, learn, and have fun. Come back in 5 years if you are still interested.
If the financial world is your interest, start at a bank with a decent salary and a 9-5 schedule. See if you like the industry before you spend 14 hours a day for the next 5 years.[/quote] I have a tendency to agree. When you get out of college you are totally clueless about the different types of careers available within an industry. A good entry level job can help you understand the different types of options available. Rather than a bank, I would perhaps suggest you look into a company like Charles Schwab or other similar type of investement company. They usually have a need for quality candidates that don't need to earn too much. I guarantee, their entry level jobs for college grads will at least pay 30k per year and maybe more. You will earn your salary throughout your training. If you work at a company like that, they will sponsor you for licenses, and your will probably have a job where you have to place trades all day for investors that call on the phone. The advantage of this type of job is you get exposure to different types of trades, products, strategies, etc., while you are on the job. You will get the type of training that you simply cannot get at a sales job because your job will be to immerse yourself in the daily activities of successful investors instead of just trying to sell something. For a next step, most of these companies have jobs where you are trying to capture rollover assets or uncover new investments that they may want to bring to the company. This is where you can develop your sales skills. For example, TIAA-CREF has internal CFPs that try to get their plan participants to work with them on financial plans. They use the retirement plans they administer to solicit the participants. From there, you can start thinking of pursuing a more entrepreneurial career as an individual FA and use the investing skills you learned. I guarantee you that Edward Jones will always be there with these opportunities and you may find that after you have had some industry experience, you want to work somewhere different. If you try and fail out now, you may not get another opportunity down the road. Furthermore, I guarantee if you have the experience above, you will have a MUCH larger training salary than $9.72 per hour. I would suggest embracing third party recruiters to get jobs with investment companies. I have found that a good recruiter can get my foot in the door of a company where I may not have had the opportunity sending a resume through the website directly to the company. On a different topic, in the long run this is a 100% commission career. In the short run while someone is building contacts and getting trained, successful companies seem to think that the best way to attract quality talent is to pay them a salary that is competetive with what they could potentially earn in other careers in the market. There seems to be two general types of opportunites out there (non indy) from what I have seen: 1. Attract a young, low paid candidate with a large natural market, sign up friends and famly, rinse and repeat 2. Pay experienced candidates, expect results You are not going to attract people in the second group unless you pay. No successful professional is going to live in their parent's basement until those commission checks start to roll in.Akkula, your posts need a disclaimer that say, “I have never worked as a financial advisor. I’m just guessing.”
"You will get the type of training that you simply cannot get at a sales job because your job will be to immerse yourself in the daily activities of successful investors instead of just trying to sell something." This may be true, but the skill that is needed to succeed in this career is sale's skill. Actually, even more than sale's skills, prospecting skills will guarantee success. Internal sales won't cut it. If someone actually picks up enough investing skills, there is no reason for them to become a financial advisor.Dray, to EDJ’s, you’re just another warm body in the pipeline. They probably have 50 other applications sitting and waiting in your area. What leverage do you have? If they say no…to your request, what are you going to do. You have no assets, no history of performance, no “top salesman at Klinko car sales”. Is Smithbarney or Merril or Wachovia or some boutique firm making an offer? If I have the ave in your area at 9.75 per hr and you start wanting to negotiate…I would say “Well Dray, let me think on this and get back to you.” I would then pick up the other applications and see if I could get someone to take your place and never callback. You have no leverage, but you have the right to negotiate…so if you think you’re really worth more than the offer, to sit on your but and study…well then by all means…tell them bspears said stick the offer up their ass…good day.
I’m going to tell you that if you are worried about what you are going to make for the next 4 months, then you shouldn’t be looking at a career at Jones. For a 22 year old kid, yes, you are still a kid at 22, 4 months is meaningless. You’re lucky if you can keep a girlfriend that long. If you do enough searching on this site, or PM Miss Jones who, you can get a better idea of what you could be making your first FULL year. Not just the first 4 months. I think the stats are something like Mid $50K range on average for your first year. So, negotiate if you want. See if they’ll throw you a bone. But don’t throw away a great opportunity over a couple hundred bucks a month. Tell them I give them permission to take some money out of the 60% they take from my commissions and give it directly to you.
Dray, first congrats on getting the offer at EJ. A lot of great advice here for you to think about. One of my short stories and my 2 cents worth.
10 years ago I was offered a sales postion at a large Fortune 500 company with no prior sales experience. I did have about 15 years of business experience, however. The company put me through an aggressive interview schedule, and I was finally made an offer. The starting salary was a little low, I thought at the time, so I called the hiring manager and said that I felt that due to my past business experience (I reinforced my accomplishments at that time.), I thought that $X amount would be a fair starting base salary. My knees were shaking, though, and I would have taken the job regardless. He was silent then started laughing and said that they could do that amount. He also said that he had a feeling that I presented a good sales case, and felt that I was going to be his #1 rep. I actually came in #3. I'm not sure if you could negotiate with EDJ or not. I know I didn't, because I expected a low rate. But, you have to wonder what would be the answer if you tried. . . . . Best of luck and let us know.[quote=cerpen]
10 years ago I was offered a sales postion at a large Fortune 500 company with no prior sales experience. I did have about 15 years of business experience, however.[/quote]
Cerpen, I think that statement is what separates you from Dray. I think bspears is right, your just another body in the pipline. If not you, then someone else.
Take the crappy pay for 4 months of training, and live on the cheap. After that, your pay is up to you.
[quote=Insideman] [quote=cerpen]
10 years ago I was offered a sales postion at a large Fortune 500 company with no prior sales experience. I did have about 15 years of business experience, however.[/quote]
Cerpen, I think that statement is what separates you from Dray. I think bspears is right, your just another body in the pipline. If not you, then someone else.
Take the crappy pay for 4 months of training, and live on the cheap. After that, your pay is up to you.
[/quote] That may be the right risk for you, and it may not. EDJ (and many others) washes out a lot of people. As everyone is saying, if you have warm body, you will have a job there. Don't let people make you feel like you should be grateful for them offering you a job. As I previously mentioned the risk they are taking on you, you would be taking the same type of risk on them. Perhaps, if you take the job, you will be rich. It is also very likely that you will fail. The lower amount of promised money by them has you taking more of the risk and them taking less risk. Hopefully you will be rewarded for the risk you are taking. You also need to look at opportunity cost. If you don't take this job, do you have other opprotunities that you would not be able to take if you work for Jones? Are you factoring in lost opportunity into your decision? You should look at the risk/reward potential of the job just like you would have a client review the same data when selecting an investment opportunity.
Yes, I totally agree that the circumstances are different. But, I wonder if Drey has any college credentials or achievements that he can use to combat his negotiations? He could try something like: “I was class President for x amount of years” or “I was chosen out of X amount of individuals to become President of the school editorial”. Anything that would show drive or initiative? I know my previous HR department would entertain salary negotiations of recent college grads if they could prove accomplishments while attending college. I think you would agree that the majority of companies today lowball potential new hires. Anyway, worth a try. I would be curious if EJ would give him what he asked if he attempted to negotiate?
I agree with the low ball offers, but they’d be stupid not to try. Especially for the amount of risk involved.
On the flip side, if they were to start you at, say, like 75K a year. You don’t have as much of an insensitive to work tirelessly.
Hi All …
I went through this forum … & found it really informative …
I need honest advice from all you experts out there …
I have recently moved from UK … where i was working as a dapt manager & did well … so I managed to get the same offer from Staples in Canada… though at a lower salary than uk … the Salary offered is $ 30,000 pa… with 4 quarterly bonus … which can make it to about 36,000.
Meanwhile i also got offer from Edward Jones as financial advisor & I’m in there last process of hiring …
My question is … whether i should opt for Edward jones opportunity or stick with Staples where i’ll have a slow growth at the rate of 10% pa as far as salary is concerned & my position.
How lucrative is financial advisors job with EJ ?
Do people make the compensation that they have mentioned in there FA Booklet ?
What is your opinion looking at the Credit Crunch in the market ?
'll appreciate all your genuine answers …
Regards,
Veer
While I completely agree with Ice, I’ll answer your original question. Yes, people do often make the money they talk about in the brochure. It really wouldn’t be that difficult to surpass the $36k figure you might see at Staples.
You phrased it correctly in your post. The EDJ FA position is an opportunity. Opportunity usually is accompanied by risk. The risk is that you might not make what the brochure says. The risk is that we will have events like the credit crunch that you have to deal with. With that said, the more risk you take, the bigger the reward typically. It's a choice you have to make whether to keep punching the clock at $15 an hour or take the risk to start your own business and throw the thought of punching a clock out the window. I'm a little biased, but I think if you have any inkling of wanting to do something besides work retail, EDJ is a great place to start (and end) a career. But, it's a lifestyle, not a job. PM me if you have other questions. Oh yeah, on the credit crunch. This too shall pass. If you want to be an EDJ FA, do it, regardless of the current econimic environment.Hi Icecold … Yeah i did get your response … thanks for taking out time …
Yeah when i moved to Canada … I was particularly interested in a job
where i can progress with my efforts n skills … I did well with
Staples in UK … but feel that working in the store, your growth is
stagnant to a store manager level …
My concern about EJ started as i read few posts where people were struggling to have there own office even after a year ???
& EJ opens multiple office in the same region … How fair is that
? I dont mind doing a door knocking initially… I’m new to this
country & dont want to get shattered …
I want to know Do there model works the way it is shown in there brouchure ??
Thanks & Regards,
Veer
Hurray I just passed my series 7 today. That shows you the lack of experience that I have. However, I am pretty sure that staples will be there if you don’t make it as an FA. I actually want to be an FA thats why I am actually working towards becoming one. If you want to be an FA go for it. If not work at staples.
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We hate Edward Jones for good reason. I have a million $$$ acount with them. Used to be 1.3 million, but they lost a good portion to bad investments. Then, to add insult to injury, they gave my million $$$ acount to a trainee who doesn't even know hor to make trades (she had to ask me.) Then she fucked it up so badly I was on the help line for hours undoing the mess. Now, dividends are not posting to my account. She refused to look into it, then told me I was too much trouble as a client and she would like to see me leave Edward Jones. In my opinion, EJ needs to go out of business. It is a scam. There needs to be some serious warnings to seniors: this company is out to rip you off.
Now I am left with thee options: go with one of many wall street "fiduciaries," put the million into an annuity, or do it myself. I'm tempted to do it myself, but I think doing a great job of investing is sort of like flying a fighter jet while being under attack. However, I have yet to find a wall streeter I would hand my million to.
If you love working for a company that preys on the old and naive, go ahead and join EJ. Once there, you will be told to lie, cheat and steal in order to make commissions. You will be so desperate, you will do just that. However...and this is what I am going to do once I leave this lunatic company, is file a number of complaints. With the better business bureau, with the SEC, and with FINRA. I may not stop there. I might hire a lawyer and sue for the missing $100,000.
I may not win any of these complaints, but they will be on record as having been made. And all the FAs involved in churning my account or in misplacing dividend payments will be named.
So go ahead and get paid minimu wage to work for a dishonest company. You might be involved in the next SEC scandal.
Yes, I hate EJ with very good reason. Bunch of lying thiefs. They would also be great in the mafia. Start asking too many questions about those misplaced dividends, and you will end up at the bottom of the East River with cement boots.
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