Managed Money

   Probably Not.

[quote=Tough Questions]

What is the challenge if you are simply raising money for somebody else to manage?

Why should I, as an investor, need your services when there are several thousand mutual funds for me to choose from on my own?

If I spend a weekend in the library reading Morningstar, Money Magazine and a few other things could I not do as good a job as you could at choosing a family of mutual funds?

[/quote]

You sir, are a legend in your own mind and probably can do anything you PUT your mind to.

I bet you wouldn't even need to read morningstar....just utilize your superior intellect......

We have no interest in you and will not respond to you PUT.

[quote=Tough Questions]

What is the challenge if you are simply raising money for somebody else to manage?

Why should I, as an investor, need your services when there are several thousand mutual funds for me to choose from on my own?

If I spend a weekend in the library reading Morningstar, Money Magazine and a few other things could I not do as good a job as you could at choosing a family of mutual funds?

[/quote]

If all you're trying to do is put together a list of the recent "hot dots" in mutual funds with no mind towards correlation of the funds to each other, no consideration of overlapping holdings and investment styles and strategies, no concern over future volatility and no consideration of the goals you’re really investing for, by all means, go to the library.  <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

the fact that people will typically buy high and sell low is why advisors are around

[quote=NeverShort]

If all you're trying to do is put together a list of the recent "hot dots" in mutual funds with no mind towards correlation of the funds to each other, no consideration of overlapping holdings and investment styles and strategies, no concern over future volatility and no consideration of the goals you’re really investing for, by all means, go to the library. 

[/quote]

Anybody reading this forum knows that there are no education requirements and that the qualification exams can be passed with virtually no effort.

Consequently why could the average person not be more effective at choosing their own funds and save several percentage points in return?

What do you do for your fee that a bright man or woman cannot do on their own?

Consider this.

Somebody who reads this board finds young people hailing each other with celebrations of how little they are educated and how low they score on their qualification exams, while also pretending to be professionals.

What are the adults supposed to think?

[quote=Tough Questions]

Consider this.

Somebody who reads this board finds young people hailing each other with celebrations of how little they are educated and how low they score on their qualification exams, while also pretending to be professionals.

What are the adults supposed to think?

[/quote]

Put, we adults feel you -- no matter how ancient your chronological age -- are infantile of mind. 

Re RR exams, the horse is dead; quit beating him.  You don't get it, you will never get it.  You're still just upset about all the people in our business who scored lower than you, and have succeeded much greater than you.  Get over it.

 Do you hunt for your own food? I am sure someone as capable and as smart as yourself would not need a grocery store to provide you with something that any person with two legs and a little effort could go out and do their self. Let me guess, you probably built your own form of transportation as well. You probably learned how to build gasoline motors on weekends reading Motor Trend in the library.

Now that was entertainment!!!

[quote=mrad]Now that was entertainment!!![/quote]

But the question remains unanswered.

Is it possible that you young people are this generation's buggy whip makers.  That you are going to spend your days trying to convince people that they should pay you to do something that they can do themselves?

How many of you figure that smart people--those with money to invest are smart--are not aware of the fact that there are such things as no load funds?

How many of you figure that smart people--those with money to invest are smart0--are not aware of the fact that if they do want some advice and counsel that there are fee only financial planners?

I suggest that the death knell for this industry was first heard when the decision was that the job no longer required native intellect.

With full knowledge of how it makes me sound like a "....and we used to walk through the snow to school" type.

When I was hired we took IQ tests to determine how smart we were, not if we were dumb enough to not become bored by the mind numbing routine of talking about mutual funds.

When we wrote we actually tried to spell things correctly, and we knew to capitalize the first word of a sentence.

And when somebody said that we had to take a test to prove what we knew we wanted to smoke that thing instead doing enough to barely pass.

The industry has "dumbed down" and the reason that it happened is because it's going out of business.

The day of the Internet has arrived.  The day of the fee only planner  has arrived.  Even the NYSE is dying.

The brokerage firm is dead, long live the brokerage firm.

Put, why won’t you go away. 

 Just because we are young does not make us stupid.

 If you beleive that no-load companies are are not in it to make a buck, then you are not a smart person. Last time I checked VanGuard was not a non-profit organization.

Fee only planners will sell you mutual funds as well. And you wont be paying less.

[quote=Cruiser]

Fee only planners will sell you mutual funds as well. And you wont be paying less.

[/quote]

Tell me how that works.  How does a fee only planner get more of my assets than their hourly fee?

As for the comment about being young and therefore stupid.  It's a sad commentary on our society, but yes it is a safe conclusion to determine that young people are stupid.

Well, not stupid I suppose--but ignorant.  It's got to do with leveling the playing field.  It is impossible to make everybody in a society smart, but it is possible to make them equally as ignorant.

Just stop teaching things.

Tell me something.  If you are not taught that water is composed of two hydrogen molecules and one oxygen molecule how will you come to know it?

What happens in a society when kids who were not taught something become the teachers?  How can a teacher teach what they don't know themselves?

[quote=Tough Questions]

[quote=NeverShort]

If all you're trying to do is put together a list of the recent "hot dots" in mutual funds with no mind towards correlation of the funds to each other, no consideration of overlapping holdings and investment styles and strategies, no concern over future volatility and no consideration of the goals you’re really investing for, by all means, go to the library. 

[/quote]

Anybody reading this forum knows that there are no education requirements and that the qualification exams can be passed with virtually no effort.

Consequently why could the average person not be more effective at choosing their own funds and save several percentage points in return?

[/quote]

The same reason that can be attributed to most failures..."lack of motivation".

Usually there is a secondary cause that limits motivation such as lack of education or lack of time.

[quote=menotellname]

The same reason that can be attributed to most failures..."lack of motivation".

Usually there is a secondary cause that limits motivation such as lack of education or lack of time.

[/quote]

Yet investors are supposed to put their faith in individuals who brag about being unmotivated and uneducated?

Earlier you suggested that we don't ask professionals how they scored on various tests, and I agree we don't.

Do you suppose a patient would get up and leave an examining room if the doctor were to say, "....and I graduated last in my class and scored the minimum acceptable grade on my medical boards."

Again I ask, what is worthy of being celebrated when one barely accomplishes a goal?

Should a parent praise a child who brings home all D's because there are no F's?

Tough Questions-Avg mutual fund investor averages 2.6% while market returns over 10%… I guess do it yourself really works. Why don’t you ask yourself a real tough question… Why has my life turned out like this, I can’t even get people I have never met to pay attention to me much less the people I work with ?////

[quote=noggin]Tough Questions-Avg mutual fund investor averages 2.6% while market returns over 10%.... I guess do it yourself really works. Why don't you ask yourself a real tough question.... Why has my life turned out like this, I can't even get people I have never met to pay attention to me much less the people I work with ?////[/quote]

Please source the stats.

Why should an investor pay you a percentage of his assets every year when he can pay a fee only planner a few hundred  dollars once?

pathetic old man… It truly does depict you as a lonely man with few hobbies when you are constantly being removed from this site yet you insist to sneak back into the building wearing a new set of wig and glasses… 26 posts in your first day using this creation… move on with your life… your posts have been amusing but you need to let it go…

I answered your question, now answer mine…

[quote=noggin]I answered your question, now answer mine....[/quote]

Which is?

[quote=Tough Questions]

[quote=mrad]Now that was entertainment!!![/quote]

But the question remains unanswered.

Is it possible that you young people are this generation's buggy whip makers.  That you are going to spend your days trying to convince people that they should pay you to do something that they can do themselves?

How many of you figure that smart people--those with money to invest are smart--are not aware of the fact that there are such things as no load funds?

How many of you figure that smart people--those with money to invest are smart0--are not aware of the fact that if they do want some advice and counsel that there are fee only financial planners?

I suggest that the death knell for this industry was first heard when the decision was that the job no longer required native intellect.

With full knowledge of how it makes me sound like a "....and we used to walk through the snow to school" type.

When I was hired we took IQ tests to determine how smart we were, not if we were dumb enough to not become bored by the mind numbing routine of talking about mutual funds.

When we wrote we actually tried to spell things correctly, and we knew to capitalize the first word of a sentence.

And when somebody said that we had to take a test to prove what we knew we wanted to smoke that thing instead doing enough to barely pass.

The industry has "dumbed down" and the reason that it happened is because it's going out of business.

The day of the Internet has arrived.  The day of the fee only planner  has arrived.  Even the NYSE is dying.

The brokerage firm is dead, long live the brokerage firm.

[quote=blarmston]pathetic old man… It truly does depict you as a
lonely man with few hobbies when you are constantly being removed from
this site yet you insist to sneak back into the building wearing a new
set of wig and glasses… 26 posts in your first day using this
creation… move on with your life… your posts have been amusing but
you need to let it go…[/quote]



couldn’t have said it much better mysefl…

[quote=Tough Questions][quote=Cruiser]

Fee only planners will sell you mutual funds as well. And you wont be paying less.

[/quote]

Tell me how that works.  How does a fee only planner get more of my assets than their hourly fee?

As for the comment about being young and therefore stupid.  It's a sad commentary on our society, but yes it is a safe conclusion to determine that young people are stupid.

In the name of all that's holy, I just can't believe how absolutely arrogant and condescending you are!  Then again, I shouldn't be surprised at comments like this coming from a dusty old gasbag like you...

Well, not stupid I suppose--but ignorant.  It's got to do with leveling the playing field.  It is impossible to make everybody in a society smart, but it is possible to make them equally as ignorant.

Just stop teaching things.

Tell me something.  If you are not taught that water is composed of two hydrogen molecules and one oxygen molecule how will you come to know it?

Ummmm....read a book?  Pay attention in class?  No, Put, despite the nasty stories you've read in The Enquirer whilst waiting in line to purchase your lobster and Mogen David wine, not every school in the country is failing in its mission.

What happens in a society when kids who were not taught something become the teachers?  How can a teacher teach what they don't know themselves?

I did answer his question on the first page - people sell low and buy high. 

It was also followed up by someone stating that the average person made 2.6% compared to the markets 10%.

How are these not answers? 

And to the person who stated that Put make his own engines - well he told me that it is a moronic position to hold and that anyone can do it. 

Fair enough - but to be a mechanic requires the same things it does to be a broker - some classes, a liscense,a place to do business, and provide service to the public.

Who wants to guess what Put's name will be tomorrow?

[quote=Tough Questions]

The same reason that can be attributed to most failures..."lack of motivation".

Usually there is a secondary cause that limits motivation such as lack of education or lack of time.

Yet investors are supposed to put their faith in individuals who brag about being unmotivated and uneducated?

If the investors themselves have less motivation and/or education than the advisor...yes!!!

Earlier you suggested that we don't ask professionals how they scored on various tests, and I agree we don't.

Points for me.

Do you suppose a patient would get up and leave an examining room if the doctor were to say, "....and I graduated last in my class and scored the minimum acceptable grade on my medical boards."

I doubt it.  Very few people have the gumption to do that.  Fewer still have the gumption, time, motivation, and financial resources to develop a new professional relationship.

Again I ask, what is worthy of being celebrated when one barely accomplishes a goal?

When one barely accomplishes a goal...THEY STILL ACCOMPLISH THE GOAL!!!  It doesn't matter if my team wins the Super Bowl in double overtime on a fluke play or if they dominate and win by 40 points.  The celebration is still very similar.

Should a parent praise a child who brings home all D's because there are no F's?

There is a subtle yet distinct difference between passing and not passing.  If the D is a passing grade then there is a level of distinction that separates it from the F.  I wouldn't call it "praise" or a cause for celebration but I can tell you that there would be better "vibes" for bringing home a D than a F.

Part of it is a horse and pony show.  It’s still largely a sales
job.  You don’t sell the steak, you sell the sizzle.  You
have to make people think that you add sufficient value to cover the
cost of your services.  (Though this is rarely the case.)



Personally, I agree with what was put forth by the original
poster.  That’s why I think that in the future as the “asset
gathering” matures the boom will be lowered on financial
advisors.  But that’s another subject.



Fortunately for everyone around here, there are plenty of people who
don’t know a single thing about investing and are easily confused and
overwhelmed by the many options available to them.   I talk
to people all the time who have no idea in which direction to go.



Sure, anyone can invest on their own.  People can fix their own
cars, too.  Install their own gutters.  Trim their own trees.

Wow stating that people dont need guidance. Donald Trump states "fincancial advisors are critical to his financial prosperity."

Also what is the average debt for Americans. The land of 300k mortgages... The land of high credit card debt.. The land of new cars and lack of savings..

To me there is no better place on the earth to teach and guide others how to be financially responsible. Also showing them a clear game plan for them to meet their goals. Maybe this is sending little Billy to college. Maybe this is living off of their investment income when they are 65.. Maybe this is to not worry about debt when they are 50.. On a daily basis I meet people who are so confused about basic finance.

Maybe these people are political, historical or english majors. Not all of us are business savey! 

As you can see I am not an english major. :)

I look at Americans and see a society of people who are over weight and in debt. Paying billions for health pills, diet tricks and low carb products.

Now the baby boom generation is scard because the govn may default on Social Security. So scard the bs dems talked them out of private accounts (unions and all govn employees use these) into accepting their $1000 monthly payment.

Now I am a patriot who serves my country at every level. I am extremly proud of who we are and what we do, but the average American is letting me down.

On a good note if they will spend billions on diet pills they will spend billions on financial advice and consulting.

[quote=executivejock]On a good note if they will spend billions on diet
pills they will spend billions on financial advice and
consulting.[/quote]



There’s one born every minute, right?



Have you seen those get-rich-quick informercials for “Wizetrade” or
whatever they call it?  It is the most disgusting thing I’ve ever
seen in my life.  Telling people that it is so easy to make money
in the market just by following their color-coded trading
suggestions.  Only a real fool would buy in to that garbage.

The main downfall of hourly financial planners is that (and this is the case with any service in any industry), the customer has to see value in the service before they’ll pay just to talk to someone.



I’ve taken millions, and thousands in commissions, from such people who didn’t see the value in going to the Ameriprise Jackass down the street. I don’t charge for my initial consultation, instead making my money by showing the client how I add value, recommending appropriate investments, and making commission on those investments. No one will pay for a service unless they see value first. I get in front of someone and show how I can add value, and my close ratio (and I’m not some dickhead who doesn’t explain commission) is over 90%.

[quote=tedstriker]The main downfall of hourly financial planners is that (and this is the case with any service in any industry), the customer has to see value in the service before they'll pay just to talk to someone.

I've taken millions, and thousands in commissions, from such people who didn't see the value in going to the Ameriprise Jackass down the street. I don't charge for my initial consultation, instead making my money by showing the client how I add value, recommending appropriate investments, and making commission on those investments. No one will pay for a service unless they see value first. I get in front of someone and show how I can add value, and my close ratio (and I'm not some dickhead who doesn't explain commission) is over 90%.[/quote]

Behold what is called whistling past the grave yard.

You cannot pick up a publication that focuses on this industry without encountering articles dealing with the decline of the commission based business.

The folks that Ameriprise approach may be reluctant to pay them for a "plan" but it's ridiculous to think that there are not tens of thousands of fee only planners  out here who are earning millions and millions of dollars at the clip of $125 per hour for nothing more than their advice.

As an adult human being can you not grasp the allure of dealing with an advisor who does not have a vested interest in seeing you buy Fund A instead of Fund B?

Really, seriously?  You actually cannot see the lure of a fee only planner?

You're kidding, right?

I have a question for you PUT. Let's supposed I was fired and had my licenses suspended, could I become a fee-based planner without my licenses?

[quote=Terminator]

I have a question for you PUT. Let's supposed I was fired and had my licenses suspended, could I become a fee-based planner without my licenses?

[/quote]

What licenses?  Were they suspended or did they simply lapse because you did not practice for a couple of years?

Wake up Put, can't you read!!!  I clearly said suspended. Look at the posts, you even copied into your posts and you still don't get it.

Boy, are you stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[quote=Terminator]

Wake up Put, can't you read!!!  I clearly said suspended. Look at the posts, you even copied into your posts and you still don't get it.

Boy, are you stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/quote]

If you get fired your licenses are suspended because you are not working for an NASD member.  After being suspended for two years they will lapse.

Then there is another issue.  The NASD can suspend your licenses while you are working.  Depending on the "sin" you may or may not be barred from having any job while your license is suspended.  When it happens in our firm, and it does, we can on occasion simply reassign the individual rather than cutting him free.

For example, we may make him a runner on the floor of the NYSE for three months while he waits out the suspension.

You're the one who doesn't know what you're talking about.  Get your facts down before you waste my time again.

Put, why his it so hard for you to read my post. You didn't answer my question.

Once more slowly..... If my licenses are suspended, can I still work as a fee based planner?

Did you get this time, MORON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[quote=Terminator]

Put, why his it so hard for you to read my post. You didn't answer my question.

Once more slowly..... If my licenses are suspended, can I still work as a fee based planner?

Did you get this time, MORON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/quote]

I really have to go--but you need to tell us what licenses you lost?

As you can see, Put is no match for the great "Terminator."

I laugh at you foolishness, PUT!!!!!!!!

You are a neophyte, Ha, ha!!!!!!!

[quote=28 July][quote=Terminator]

Put, why his it so hard for you to read my post. You didn't answer my question.

Once more slowly..... If my licenses are suspended, can I still work as a fee based planner?

Did you get this time, MORON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/quote]

I really have to go--but you need to tell us what licenses you lost?

[/quote]

Less than an hour--that's what's great about NYC, you can get out, get it done, get back.

OK, let's get to this.

First.  I asked about suspended or lapsed because it is possible to be fired--the term terminator used--without losing your licenses.  You could be fired because you were not producing, you could be fired because your broker dealer closed their office in your town.  It is possible to be fired and still be qualified to do everything.

Or you you could be fired because you were a rogue broker.  Normally that happens like this.  The NASD suspends your license then, because  you cannot work, your firm fires you.

Terminator--who is actually Joedabrkr--was playing a game of gotcha and I was simply turning it around on him.

The other issue is who lifts your licenses.  Most of you will have a 6 and 65 or a 6 and 66 pairing.  These are NASD licenses.  The 6 or 7 allows you to earn commissions from selling things--it is a federal license.  The 65 or 66 qualfies you in the states and to act as an Investment Advisor Representative or IAR.

These licenses can be suspended by the NASD, and if they are you will be ineligible to work for an NASD member firm while they are suspended.  Most suspensions are for 90 days, but they can go on for as long as a year.  If the NASD thinks you should nto be in the biz period they will "bar you for life" rather than suspend you.

Now, let's suppose you were in fact barred for life.  Could you become a fee only financial advisor.  It is my believe that the sad answer is yes.  The reason is in the buraucracy.

You see, the NASD is who barred you, but if you don't work for an NASD member they have no control over what you do.  So you could open up "Ajax Planning" and become a fee only financial advisor.  Some states may restrict your ability to do this without a state mandated license but I am relatively sure that the SEC will not--unless you go across state lines with your cilentele.

In any case since you are not involved with a Securities Dealer--meaning you don't earn commissions--the National Association of Securities Dealers has no power to control your business or life.

So to answer Terminator's question.  Yes, if you are suspended by the NASD you can still become a fee based financial planner.  You may have to relocate to a state that does not have as a state rule that you must hold an NASD license, but there are states that do not.

I thank Put Trader for sending me an email about this while I was gone to the store.  It's a shame that he doesn't post here any longer, he's one smart cookie with a lot of good information for those who are interested in learning about this stuff.

Most of you will have a 6 and 65 or a 6 and 66 pairing.<<Previous Post

My bad, it should be 6 and 65 or 7 and 66 pairing.

[quote=Seven 28][quote=28 July][quote=Terminator]

Put, why his it so hard for you to read my post. You didn't answer my question.

Once more slowly..... If my licenses are suspended, can I still work as a fee based planner?

Did you get this time, MORON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/quote]

I really have to go--but you need to tell us what licenses you lost?

[/quote]

Less than an hour--that's what's great about NYC, you can get out, get it done, get back.

OK, let's get to this.

First.  I asked about suspended or lapsed because it is possible to be fired--the term terminator used--without losing your licenses.  You could be fired because you were not producing, you could be fired because your broker dealer closed their office in your town.  It is possible to be fired and still be qualified to do everything.

Or you you could be fired because you were a rogue broker.  Normally that happens like this.  The NASD suspends your license then, because  you cannot work, your firm fires you.

Terminator--who is actually Joedabrkr--was playing a game of gotcha and I was simply turning it around on him.

I am absolutely NOT Terminator.  I have not found it necessary to constantly change my screen name and post under different aliases because I keep getting banned.  Unlike YOU Put Trader. You really should consider seeking professional help...there are plenty of good therapists in NYC.  Perhaps you should seek one of them out?

The other issue is who lifts your licenses.  Most of you will have a 6 and 65 or a 6 and 66 pairing.  These are NASD licenses.  The 6 or 7 allows you to earn commissions from selling things--it is a federal license.  The 65 or 66 qualfies you in the states and to act as an Investment Advisor Representative or IAR.

These licenses can be suspended by the NASD, and if they are you will be ineligible to work for an NASD member firm while they are suspended.  Most suspensions are for 90 days, but they can go on for as long as a year.  If the NASD thinks you should nto be in the biz period they will "bar you for life" rather than suspend you.

Now, let's suppose you were in fact barred for life.  Could you become a fee only financial advisor.  It is my believe that the sad answer is yes.  The reason is in the buraucracy.

You see, the NASD is who barred you, but if you don't work for an NASD member they have no control over what you do.  So you could open up "Ajax Planning" and become a fee only financial advisor.  Some states may restrict your ability to do this without a state mandated license but I am relatively sure that the SEC will not--unless you go across state lines with your cilentele.

In any case since you are not involved with a Securities Dealer--meaning you don't earn commissions--the National Association of Securities Dealers has no power to control your business or life.

So to answer Terminator's question.  Yes, if you are suspended by the NASD you can still become a fee based financial planner.  You may have to relocate to a state that does not have as a state rule that you must hold an NASD license, but there are states that do not.

I thank Put Trader for sending me an email about this while I was gone to the store.  It's a shame that he doesn't post here any longer, he's one smart cookie with a lot of good information for those who are interested in learning about this stuff.

I am NOT terminator.  I have no need to post under another screen
name.  Unlike yourself, Seven 28 a.k.a. Put Trader, I am not
constantly changing names because the last one was banned.