Leaving EDJ before Can-Sell

Helpfull. Thanks

If you go to a competitor, they may come after you.  If you do something other than financial services, they will probably let it go.

If you drop your licenses, they will NOT go after you.  Just call your ATL and tell them you just cannot do this job.  However, you don’t actually have your license yet (that doesn’t come until Eval/Grad), so, you are home-free.  I believe you are not financially strapped until you actually get your can-sell date.  And even after that, they will only come after you if you try to go to a competitor with your licenses.  But don’t quote me on any of this.

_popupControl(); So you have decided that it is too hard and not much fun to do the cold walking thingy.  How are you going to feel about doing cold calling on the phone?  The deafening silence after the prospect hangs up on you isn't going to feel great either.  You are prospecting, not socializing.  Talk to your prospects!!  How in the world do you expect to get through life if you have to have a 'buddy' around you all the time?

Get over it.  Or as Feris said...grow a pair.  We ALL had to go through the prospecting part and we are ALL still prospecting.  That is part of being in this business.  The good news is that as you become more and more sucessful, the cold prospecting is less of your business and more clients will come from referrals.  This business is tough.  Man up.

Babbling is " right on the money " with comments. If you can’t prospect face to face , it won’t be anymore pleasant over the phone. At 22 , perhaps you just aren’t ready , not a crime and maybe the industry is not for you?

Hi tooyoung:

I wish everything was handed to me on a silver platter to.


Tooyoung, its sounds like you haven’t even tried man. That nonsense about getting yourself fired and seeing a head shrinker is flat out comical and sad my friend. Take the training you have received an TRY…TRY !

You are communicating the actions of failure. With this approach you will never succeed at anything you do. You passed all the tests, so you obviously have some kind of intelligence.

I've interviewed many, many college kids and they all think getting the degree after four years of partying means they are now entitled to a trouble-free life. The real world wants results first, before it gives a damn how you're feeling.

[quote=jtorgerson]

I've interviewed many, many college kids and they all think getting the degree after four years of partying means they are now entitled to a trouble-free life. The real world wants results first, before it gives a damn how you're feeling.

Getting a note from a shrink???  This is a new one for me.  Seems if you used that type of creativity to WORK you would be just fine.  If you go elsewhere in the industry, you owe training costs.  Period.  Although you could try getting a note from your mommy, that one worked in grade school.

Kid - at this point, your best bet is to quit and go find a nice salaried job outside the industry.  Jones won’t go after you.  I would imagine even if you tried to get hired by a bank in a non-securities job, but “park” your 7, Jones would come after you.

TooYoung,

Isn’t it kind of funny to see all these college grads saying they graduated with 4.0’s at the top of their class with some cum laude title?  That stuff wouldn’t even impress me at all if I was interviewing them.

Man up and get better at talking to people…of course it sucks but the longer you stay the less you are out door knocking.  Or quit be a failure and leave more clients for the rest of us.

[quote=Ferris Bueller]4) Grow a sack, man up and do the cold walking, be a success and make lots of money.[/quote]

Have to agree with Ferris, I don’t work for EDJ and never have but I’ve been around long enough to know that the successful people never do things that are “comfortable” at least at first.  Put in your time and I think you’ll be happy, what do you have to lose?

You can’t be trained to overcome your emotions?



That just sounds like an excuse to be lazy. Look, if it’s not working for you, look at alternative methods.



Use the brain you have (which you graduated Summa Cum Laude with) and put that same dedication an energy in to building a book. Really.



Go through the posts on these boards. There are a lot of smart, hard-working people here that can help. Read posts from guys like Spaceman Spiff, Morphius, The Judge, Roadhard. Also, look at alternative ways to earn business.



By the way, people overcome their emotions all the time. Overcoming your fear is courage. Courageous people win the war.



And if your upset by the people giving you some “tough” advice on here, suck it up.



My advice: Take a knee, drink some water, suck it up and DRIVE ON!

Ouch. I suppose after rereading my post I deserved some of that. I cannot blame you for making assumptions, as all you know of me is a single post. But it is also unfair to prejudge me so harshly. There’s a psychological theory known as the fundamental attribution error, in which when one makes a mistake, they blame it on their situation, but when they see someone else make a mistake, they tend to blame it on the person. For example, a man is speeding and cuts you off – many would think this guy is an asshole. It doesn’t cross most people’s minds that perhaps his wife is in labor, or he’s late for the most important meeting of his life, etc. etc.



Anyway, like I said, I don’t blame you guys. But it is unfair to assume that I need to grow some nuts and go balls to the wall and get through this. I have been doing that my entire life. I was raised in the inner city, where crime and poverty were as normal as the french eating cheese. In my life, I have witnessed my father’s dead body after he committed suicide in his apartment when I was 14, because he was an alcoholic and tried to rape a little girl and lost everything he had in life (and no, I don’t feel sorry for him). At that point, I was forced to work full-time while struggling through high school so I could pay some of the bills. I’ve been through points without water, electricity, or food for months at a time. I’ve eaten raw onions because there was nothing else left. I’ve been stabbed for lunch money. I was privileged enough to witness my friend get shot in the chest and die as he bled on the street. I am fortunate enough to have a lesbian for a mother, I suppose my dad really did something to her mind. I’ve had 3 friends die from drug overdoses, and more than 5 become victims of crack cocaine addictions, which left them as itchy, homeless, feigns.



But I did what you guys suggest. I grew some balls, and got through it. I put myself through high school, and eventually college, on my own sweat and money. I have been going at it full speed since early childhood, and to be honest, it is really unnecessary for you all to assume that I am some hand-me-down smart kid with good grades in school who doesn’t want to work. I know what life is like. I am not that smart, I busted my butt to get those grades while working full-time so I could have the opportunity to better myself; something that I was not fortunate enough to just be born into. I pray to God every night to rid my mind of the things I have been privy to, but I kept moving forward.



I do not know what it is about door knocking that hits me so hard. You are right, I should just do it like I have done my entire life. But after 3 or 4 days of it, something hit me. Whether it be connected to my past or a newfound feeling, it is debilitating. Perhaps the feelings of loneliness were the last straw for my mind after all it has seen, but I swear to you all, I do keep trying. And I keep failing. It hurts me more to know that I am going to fail for what seems like such a minute reason after everything I have done to get myself here, than anything else I have ever experienced. It is tearing me apart. I keep trying, and I keep failing. I did not cry when I saw my father’s body, yet tears stream down my cheeks over this.



I am sorry to have offended you all by being a failure, but rest assured, it’s not something I make a habit of. And for those that offered some answers, thank you very much… I now realize everything I have worked for is going to be taken away by a haunting past. Enjoy your lives, I’ll go back to being an anonymous reader. I wish you all great success.



Kudous   

[quote=snaggletooth]Isn’t it kind of funny to see all these college grads saying they graduated with 4.0’s at the top of their class with some cum laude title?  That stuff wouldn’t even impress me at all if I was interviewing them.

I am sorry to have offended you all by being a failure, but rest assured, it’s not something I make a habit of. And for those that offered some answers, thank you very much… I now realize everything I have worked for is going to be taken away by a haunting past.

Tooyoung, sorry about your dad. I realize your have gone through a lot. So have many other people. For most what you have gone through just fuels their desire to succeed.

You have to look at your journey and relate it to climbing a ladder/mountain. Would you climb up it 95% of the way and look back and say “wow Ive come far, didnt realize how scared I was so I better climb back down”?

No. You’ve already done the hard parts. You owe it to yourself to soldier on a find TRUE confirmation that you cannot make it…like your boss telling you to take a hike.


Quit now and you surrender your hard work.

You’re right. This isn’t the job for me, and I have tried to come to terms with this. It sucks. But I was trying to find my way out, because for one excuse or another, this isn’t where I belong. It is not the door slams that bother me, it is the few hours that pass where not a single door is opened to me. That’s what begins to eat me alive. After what it took to get here, I finally feel like I need to slow down and enjoy my life a little more than I’ve allowed myself to. And this thought has probably come at a horrible time. I am burnt out, and at this point, just want to sit at a desk and be subjected to someone telling me what to do for a change. Its sad, but a newfound truth. I just don’t think there is a way out that won’t destroy me.

[quote=jtorgerson][quote=snaggletooth]Isn’t it kind of funny to see all these college grads saying they graduated with 4.0’s at the top of their class with some cum laude title?  That stuff wouldn’t even impress me at all if I was interviewing them.

You’re right. This isn’t the job for me, and I have tried to come to terms with this. It sucks. But I was trying to find my way out, because for one excuse or another, this isn’t where I belong. It is not the door slams that bother me, it is the few hours that pass where not a single door is opened to me. That’s what begins to eat me alive. After what it took to get here, I finally feel like I need to slow down and enjoy my life a little more than I’ve allowed myself to. And this thought has probably come at a horrible time. I am burnt out, and at this point, just want to sit at a desk and be subjected to someone telling me what to do for a change. Its sad, but a newfound truth. I just don’t think there is a way out that won’t destroy me.

snaggle, I really appreciate your post. That is exactly how I feel right now. My problem is, with a degree in accounting/finance, I don’t see myself leaving the industry. I know that brokerage is not where I belong, at least not at this stage in my life. But if I go work for Vanguard as someone who does nothing but answer questions on the phone about their funds, doesn’t that still count as “in the industry”? They require a 6 and 63 for the position, so I am assuming that job is something EDJ would come after me for. I would not be selling, but I would be discussing.



I enjoy the markets and almost everything finance-related, which is why I obtained my degree in it. The dilemma I am going through is that I want to work in the industry, but I do not believe I can handle brokerage at this stage in my life. I want to have weekends off, and to be able to hang out with friends, or watch the football game, etc. I haven’t been able to do that for way too long, being in school during the days and working at nights/weekends. At this point, I am willing to settle for 30k a year to sit in a chair answering a phone for a while, as long as I get to smile every so often.



Will they really come after me if I am not selling for another firm? I mean, Vanguard is a mutual fund… they aren’t a brokerage per se, but they still count?

Kid,

You have come to just part of what we all go through…that is the journey of life. If you have done your soul searching and concluded that this is NOT where you want to be then that is your choice.

I have a question…

How do Firms like EDJ get away with a $75k clause of recourse no matter the length of service or training?  I mean in all reality they probably never even come close to putting that much money into someone in their first year, let alone the first few months.  I mean, why don’t the just have you sign a waiver saying that you will owe them $1 meeeeellliioooon dollars if you don’t stay with them for 3 years and work in the industry to make it more clear they are just ripping you off? 

Man that sucks. But remember: everybody’s got something. Some people have cancer, some people are missing limbs. I’m willing to bet 90 percent of the people on his board had to work full time (and overtime) to pay for school. Not to down you, but you sound like someone who has never given up. My previous advice stands.



Listen, if you truly dont want to do it anymore, then leave with dignity. Tell them straight up, thank them for the opportunity and try and get a job as an analyst. I think that is the path you should take. There is nothing academically harder than the CFA exam. If prospecting is troubling you now, move forward. This will be hard in a different way.

[quote=tooyoung]I am in desperate need of some guidance.

TooYoung,



While I think 70k is slightly high, the firm does put a lot into you. Also remember you’re paying for stuff that lead directly to you being hired, a portion of your SST’s salary, your trainers in stl, your flights, hotel, food, your salary, what the GPs would have made if you stayed, etc. But since you havent even done eval/grad, its unlikely they have paid all that much.



Saul- welcome back buddy! i thought you got smashed up in the mosh pit at the Ron Paul rally.

75k does seem high, but here’s my understanding:



The $75,000 is what they can sue you for if you goto a competing firm under a noncompete clause.



They actually estimate $100,000 in training expenses over the next 3 years, which they charge you for on a backward pro-rata basis. For some reason, although I am only a few months in, that means I have to pay more. For every year you work, it goes down by 1/3, and is eliminated at the end of your third year. So, the more they actually spend, the less you owe them, and the less they spend, the more you owe them.



I called one of my bosses and left a message. Here’s the the rest of my life cheers



P.S. Saul4Paul, that was one of the most inspirational posts I have read to-date. Thanks

Keep in mind, you can argue that going to work at a schwab or vanguard is not competition since you would essentially be a salaried order taker, not a competitive salesperson.  You would not be making outbound calls nor marketing to obtain new clients.  Bottomline, if you aren’t cut out to “sell”, not even Jones would want you, let alone a real firm.

[quote=tooyoung]
I called one of my bosses and left a message. Here’s the the rest of my life cheers



[/quote]


What did you leave on the voicemail ? Your 2 weeks notice ?

[quote=OldLady]Kid - at this point, your best bet is to quit and go find a nice salaried job outside the industry.  Jones won’t go after you.  I would imagine even if you tried to get hired by a bank in a non-securities job, but “park” your 7, Jones would come after you.

Haha, I left a message asking him to give me a call back when he gets a few moments to talk…



And as far as the licensing, I have been told that since I have not reached my “Can-Sell” date as of yet, I am not registered yet… meaning no matter what, I am going to lose them one way or another? I had passed the 7 in the middle of may, and the 66 at the end of may. Should I expect to retake them anyway, and since I am not trying to transfer the licensing, would this make a difference in EDJ trying to execute me?



Again, you ladies and gentlemen have been incredibly helpful. I am eternally grateful.

Tooy, dont break up with him over the phone lol.

These things are better handled face to face. You may need a reference one day and you want your last employer to respect you to the utmost.

Its much harder for someone to stick it to you when you look them in the eye…unless he’s a ruthless SOB then you SOL.

While many of the contributors to this forum have been blunt and direct that doesn't mitigate the truth of what they have said.  The heart and soul of success in this business is prospecting.  With time it transitions to referrals but knocking doors is a necessity.

Just quit!  If you spent as much time working on building your business as you did looking for ways out of the system, you might be a success.  But from the looks of it, you are just looking for some way to CYA.  Having served as a visiting vet and donated my time (weeks) away from my business trying to help folks like you get started, just to have you quit becasue it got a little “lonely” really chaps my hide.  You’ve had trainers, mentors, ATL’s, Study for Succes trainers all expend their time and EJ $ to help you and you want to walk cuz it’s lonely.  Grow up!  Life is hard and it’s not always fair.  Take your blanket and your bottle and your silver platter with you to whoever you think is going to hold your hand and coddle you

Wow chief, a little harsh dontcha think?  If you and Jones really want to continue to pay for someone that A: may not make it, and B: will probably leave after 3 years anyway, then go for it.  Isn’t that part of the Jones investment philosophy anyway?  Throw money at a losing proposition and hope things work out ok…DCA it’s down 20%… buy more it’s on sale… buy more cuz our home office says to…  Cut the kid some slack.  Haven’t you ever taken a job and found out you it wasn’t the right fit for you?

By the way, if it didn’t improve your P&L and give you a shot at more LP offerings, you probably wouldn’t care one way or another about mentoring, being a visiting vet, etc…  It is a little difficult to appear altruistic when you get paid on the back end for your efforts.  As I recall, the trainer, mentor and ATL could have pulled the plug at any time on the kid.  Why shouldn’t he be concerned about the non-compete contract?  It’s a farce anyway.  Whatever Jones lossed on the deal is just a cost of doing business and cutting losses.

chief. that was pretty cold blooded. read one of his later posts - i think he gets it that life is tough.

I appreciate you guys sticking up for me, but he is right. I have wasted valuable resources. On the bright side, I am brave enough to quit without wasting anymore. I have come to terms with myself that although this is an excellent opportunity, it isn’t for me. At least not at this point in my life.



I really appreciate what you guys do as vets and mentors chief. I appreciate it enough to disallow myself from wasting anymore of EDJ’s time.



Instead of this excellent opportunity, I am going to end up behind a desk making 30k a year. And I am doing this because I understand that I do not have enough left in me at this point to succeed. You should be thanking me.



Enjoy your unfounded self-pity.

Lots of people jump in the deep end and THEN find out they cant swim lol.


Chalk it up to one of lifes trials and tribulations.

"A negative attitude is like a rocking chair, it gives you something to do without getting anywhere"



I’m sure that was said by some famous guy that I cannot cite.

Was I harsh? Maybe.  Was I blunt? Yes.  I understand he has had a tough life.  We all have had a tough life at some point. I am the ninth of 10 kids, put myself through college, earned money with work-study program in college.  I sold my high-school class ring for food and had to cut back to two-meals a day in college because I couldn’t afford three.  After attending classes full-time in the mornings, playing a collegiate sport full-time in the afternoon, and then going back to the dorms at night to clean the bathroms and showers of my fellow dormmates.  I got through (not summa cum laude but over 3.0).   I have walked streets doorknocking in the dead of winter when it is 10 degres outside trying to support a wife and kids. Have I thought about leaving Jones? Yes, several times.  Have I? No.  Because I am in a great position.  I am my own boss with a nice office and nice clients.  I have gone on trips around the world to places I never thought I would see.

I hear you chief, but I have to echo icecold.



You certainly aren’t a business owner. To be honest, I’m wondering how Jones can get away with even saying that - it is quite a bit misleading.



His issue was that he wanted to leave. Some of us were trying to tell him to tough it out. He made it clear it just wasn’t a fit for him. Not everyone wants to be the relationship person in this business. He may be a brilliant money manager (why I told him to pursue the CFA).



Being an advisor/broker/planner isn’t the be all end all and neither is Jones. But I think the kool-aid drinkers do think so.



As for asking for help - no one is going to doorknock for him.



I already mentioned that everyone has had a rough life. And each person bears their burden differently. I just got a say, his life has SUCKED.



The office I’m planning on moving to when I transition is nice too - a lot bigger, and a lot cheaper. I asked the landlord how much he charges Jones v. how much it costs the branch - 50% more. I also have nice clients who I plan on taking with me. My wife and I take trips around the world all of the time - I take the Jones cash and turn it into something better. And I don’t have to deal with insufferable GP’s and other sanctimonious Jones brokers who were handed their books.



I think you would do yourself and your family a favor if you looked at leaving. Just a thought.

Chief,



I appreciate your concern for me (Jones?) wholeheartedly. However, I have been chugging along my entire life as a loner. They say that you become your surroundings. The entire argument of understanding human psychology is nature vs. nurture, or, your environment vs. your genetics. My environment was chaos and despair. My heart goes out to everyone of those children born into that world, because society probably will not let them leave. I succeeded when not a single person I have had the privilege of being acquainted to has. Why? Because I literally cut myself off from every last one of them. Ever told your best friend that you grew up with and share nearly every aspect of life, that you can’t be around them anymore until they change?



I did, and I surrounded myself with what I considered to be successful people. Success breeds success, and here I am. But I have sacrificed human nature to get here. And to me, Jones’ model of business was asking me to continue to be alone. I do apologize that I did not realize this sooner… I honestly had forgotten how much comrade meant to me, and should mean to everyone. I am not a loner by nature, I love people. I surround myself with people. However, at 22, I lack people to share childhood stories with or someone that I can even remotely relate to. So, at this stage of my life, I’d like to build some real relationships. Perhaps in 10 years I will feel as close to these people as I had to my best friend Adam, who shared the experience of poverty, the deaths of our fathers, and the evil that permeates the city along side of me – and together we got through it. But in order to discontinue merely “getting through”, I had to make decisions to “get out”.



Again chief, I am eternally grateful for your concerns for both your company as well as myself. It is noble to get angry and defend your company when others seem to be hurting it – that is true loyalty, and I envy you. The fact of the matter however, is that I have not found that place for me.



Magician, I had never thought of obtaining a CFA or CFP. But I truly appreciate you mentioning it, because I have spent a few hours researching what is needed to acquire these licenses. I have learned that Vanguard has their own CFP training courses. What is the difference between the CFP and the CFA, when related to real-world experiences?

And 22 year olds come to this forum and ask “Why won’t most firms hire me at 22?”

[quote=MISS JONES]Likely you (Ice) will not win a trip or win a bonus this year but most of our new FA’s do… and 50% of all our FA’s win a trip TWICE a year… That is not the norm anywhere else.

[quote=iceco1d][quote=chief]

See above your post Miss J.

Raise your hands if you want to spank miss J on the butt........

tooyoung - if you’re up for moving, look at the opportunities of working for Jones at the HQ.   You already have your licenses, which opens a few more doors for you at HQ.  You’re obviously smart, driven, and focused, otherwise you wouldn’t be where you are today.  Get your feet wet with a quality company for a few years, then see what else the world has to offer you.  Maybe you’ll discover that you really do belong in a Jones office somewhere.  Who knows.  I promise you a phone call from your RL to the right people in the home office will make a transition easier for you.  And it would be cheaper for Jones to hire you than to have to go to the trouble of suing you for training expenses.  If you want more info PM me and I’ll be glad to help.  

There’s a list of trips.  There are a limited number of spaces on each excursion, so the desirable ones fill up pretty quickly.  So, if you really want to go to Borneo, Malaysia you’d better be quick to win.  On the flip side, if you win, the worst, IMHO, place you could get stuck going is Breckenridge, CO for a ski trip.  That would suck. 

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2. You are correct that we are W2 employees but we do run our branches the way we want to as long as we are legal, profitable and ethical…

We don’t run branches the way we want. Are you kidding me?



We run our branches the way we want inside the EDWARD JONES UNIVERSE. Outside of that, the rhetoric is that it’s bad, “not good for the client”, or not the “Jones way”.



Seriously, bathing in the kool-aid may create a profit and decent way of life for your family, but is it TRULY the best thing for your clients? I get sick of that mantra. “We’re the only ones who do it this way.” Jones says “this is the way you do things”.



I had a client in my office tonight, worth around $5mil. Just for kicks, I asked a few people around the region what they would do with him. Anybody care to guess what EVERY one of them said?

By the way, Jones trips have JONES people on them. Take the cash and go where there is no “Farewell dinner”.



No offense to Spiff, B24, Borker, Miss Jones and any other friendly Jones people.

We are basically a wirehouse with one-broker offices, no on-site BOM, and a unique “culture”.



Let’s move on.

See above your post Miss J.

[quote=snaggletooth]See above your post Miss J.

What kinda FA really thinks those trips are free?  You pay for them with lower payouts.  That is why you pay taxes on them at the end of the year.  That fact alone should make any FA reconsider whether they are really happy or just brainwashed drones.

Why is it that Jones FAs are brainwashed clones, but MS, ML, UBS brokers are successful, professional advisors? 

Ummm… perhaps because you are brainwashed drones?  If not, feel free to contact your home office and ask them if you can think for yourself for awhile…

Just too hard to resist…I think it falls under the category of never ask a question if you don’t want an answer…

I have heard the brainwashed comment many times…I am not brainwashed but I know many other Jones FAs that are.  I think the main reason it is made is because of the heavy sales in American Funds by new FAs.  For me American only consists of 20% of my book while others is closer to 80%

I’m gonna go completely off the board here.

 You’re 22 years old, right out of college with no real office experience let alone industry experience and the market is crap for prospecting…  any respectable BOM would have pointed out each of those factors to you during your interview while politely turning you down and suggesting taking a more traditional sales oriented path and trying to follow the FA path later in life.

Now that you are licensed, you may as well try to cope for a while.  Have you considered talking to your BOM about putting the program on hold and becoming a sales assistant, operations personnel, financial consultant, etc.  The firm retains you, you get industry experience and sale experience and maybe in a few years you’ll be in a better position to try the FA route again, if that’s what you should choose to do.

You can retain your licenses if you quit, but you need to become employed by a bd within a year to retain your 66 and 2 years for the 7 and that could be pretty hard considering… In addition, I think you would have to prove yourself pretty incompetent in order to not be held responsible for your contractual agreement and in that case, your licenses could absolutely be removed.

The firing thing, well, if you keep moral at the current level, you might just get there, but is that what you really want?

I apparently shouldn’t have stopped reading after the first page… oops. 

Ummm… perhaps because you are brainwashed drones?  If not, feel free to contact your home office and ask them if you can think for yourself for awhile…

A shot on my vocabulary and intelligence?  I expected more from you spiff…

Sorry, too much caffeine this morning.  My apologies for taking a shot at your intelligence. 

That is a valid point, however, those firms you mentioned all signed the Broker accord with the understanding that brokers move on.  Not everyone fits into the square hole.  Because of the way Jones is set up, a compliance nightmare, you have to standardize your companies approach.  There is no thinking outside the box because you don’t have the resources to control things that aren’t standardized.  Think about it honestly for awhile and you will see what I mean.

New_indy, if an intervention doesn’t work…use a rubber mallet…