Firm rankings .. the way I see them

Bear Stearns ?

Bear Stearns? BSC?

Breakfast of Super Champions...that's what it is.

[quote=The Hunt]Bear Stearns ?[/quote]

+1 on Bear Stearns.

Agree on the the trash level.

Income and other facts not accurate on tier 2 firms. First problem, these firms aren't second tier, well, except for AGE. I would rate these firms as top tier, or if you'd like, top tier minus.

What exactly are your qualifications?  Which company do you work for?

[quote=ymh_ymh_ymh]

Bear Stearns? BSC?

Breakfast of Super Champions...that's what it is.

[/quote]

Well, they would be if they hadn't whored out their name for so many years allowing nasty little firms that did nothing more than clear through them to post their names on doors and stationary with "cleared through" under it, as if there was some genuine connection.  It was like Tiffanys letting pawn brokers use the name for a few bucks. For the money they made clearing they associated themselves with some of the worst elements of the retail trade. For that alone they’ll never be the equivalent of GS or LEH.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Ancient history, Mike.

Did you see Sue Craig's article on Goldie Lox today (page A1 of the Journal).

[quote=ymh_ymh_ymh]

Ancient history, Mike.

Did you see Sue Craig's article on Goldie Lox today (page A1 of the Journal).

[quote=ymh_ymh_ymh]

Ancient history, Mike. [/quote]

No, it isn't, and it happened under Cayne's watch

[quote=ymh_ymh_ymh]

Did you see Sue Craig's article on Goldie Lox today (page A1 of the Journal).

[/quote]

Yeah, it's really something. You're so far removed from our existance that it's like a local club champion, or maybe #50 in the PGA money list reading about Tiger's endorsement deals.

“You’re” should be “We’re”…

Advisors at SB or ML dont have 1/4 of the resources that GS and LEH do? Care to elaborate on that Dirty???

[quote=DirtyDeltaBro]
<o:p></o:p>

Qualifications: Consider yourself special.  These firms don’t extend offers to just anyone.

You must have a 4 year degree, and some professional accomplishment to be offered employment.  

I got hired at Morgan Stanley without a college degree, so JCadieux is correct.

Although Grammar Police would say that he is remarkable....I'm just a wirehouse flunky.

Mike, Morgan Stanley's "house mutual fund" scandals happened a lot more recently than Bear's AR Baron issues.

Joe, Bear's problems haven't quite been forgotten but they're in the distant past relative to issues other firms had.

[quote=ymh_ymh_ymh] <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Mike, Morgan Stanley's "house mutual fund" scandals happened a lot more recently than Bear's AR Baron issues. [/quote]

MS's mutual fund issues, bad as they were, (and they were awful) happened under another administration and didn't have the consequence of linking the firm's name to the sl*g of the industry for decades. They also managed to get caught up in the wave of many other firms mutual fund late trading scandals.

What makes it worse for BCS is that they play in another league, a league where connections and appearances mean much more than they do in the broad market of the retail brokerage world.   No, the wiff of whoring that fine name will stick with BCS for a long time, and GS and LEH won’t be quick to let them shower it off.

[quote=dude]

I got hired at Morgan Stanley without a college degree, so JCadieux is correct.

Although Grammar Police would say that he is remarkable....I'm just a wirehouse flunky.

[/quote]

At least you're not a margin clerk flunky like grammar police.

[quote=My Inner Child][quote=dude]

I got hired at Morgan Stanley without a college degree, so JCadieux is correct.

Although Grammar Police would say that he is remarkable....I'm just a wirehouse flunky.

[/quote]

At least you're not a margin clerk flunky like grammar police.

[/quote]

It is sad that firms like Morgan Stanley will hire the uneducated to represent them to their clients.

This industry should be out of reach of those without MBAs.

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone][quote=My Inner Child][quote=dude]

I got hired at Morgan Stanley without a college degree, so JCadieux is correct.

Although Grammar Police would say that he is remarkable....I'm just a wirehouse flunky.

[/quote]

At least you're not a margin clerk flunky like grammar police.

[/quote]

It is sad that firms like Morgan Stanley will hire the uneducated to represent them to their clients.

This industry should be out of reach of those without MBAs.

[/quote]

I don't see that happening until financial planning becomes a "need".  As of now, it is a "want" and salesmanship is more important than having an MBA. 

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone][quote=My Inner Child][quote=dude]

I got hired at Morgan Stanley without a college degree, so JCadieux is correct.

Although Grammar Police would say that he is remarkable....I'm just a wirehouse flunky.

[/quote]

At least you're not a margin clerk flunky like grammar police.

[/quote]

It is sad that firms like Morgan Stanley will hire the uneducated to represent them to their clients.

This industry should be out of reach of those without MBAs.

[/quote]

I'm not uneducated. 

Just because I don't have a piece of paper from a college doesn't mean that I'm not educated. 

It's called 'self directed learning'.  It's amazing what a library and/or a good bookstore can do for you.  You should visit one sometime Soon 2 B Back.

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]It is sad that firms like Morgan Stanley will hire the uneducated to represent them to their clients.[/quote]

I wonder if they'd hire a non-college gard today. I couldn't say, but I'll look into it.

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

This industry should be out of reach of those without MBAs.[/quote]

Nah, I have a Masters degree, but I can't see it as a minimum.....

or a non-college grad, even…

MS doesn't hire FA trainees without a college degree. Not only that, you still have to pass the 7 to move on, and college degree or not, some people just don't get it. A guy in my "class" who has a degree and was very educated and well spoken just got a 54. Needless to say he was shown the door. This attests to the idea that you don't need a college degree to be considered intelligent, not are you automatically deemed unintelligent when you do not possess such a degree.

Mike, Goldman Sachs thinks its own poop doesn't smell and they have always been "holier than thou." Their IPO spinning and analysts whoring those crappy tech stock firms they took public will never be forgotten nor will Abby Joseph Cohen shilling that piece of crap Enron less than a year before it imploded.

Goldman Sachs took Refco public last year and no one will ever forget what a dog that pig was. This year their biggest dog was Xethanol (XNL:Amex). They were lead manager on their SPO.

Lehman doesn't play the "holier than thou" game and never has. I was not happy with what Bear did 10 years plus ago and am very glad they no longer clear for bucket shops/boiler rooms. Penson's clearing for the penny stock boys (PNSN:NDAQ) these days. Great, let 'em have all of that biz they want.

All  firms have had their issues/scandals over the past 10 years. I am glad that mess with Bear is over. I am sure Morgan Stanley employees are glad Phil and his Dean Witter crew are long gone, too.

Have a nice weekend, Mike (everyone else over here, too)!

What is First Investors all about? I had a lady bring a million bucks to the bank and she wouldn’t sit down with me said she was going there to the manager. I would like some dirt if there is some.

[quote=bankrep1]What is First Investors all about? I had a lady bring a million bucks to the bank and she wouldn't sit down with me said she was going there to the manager. I would like some dirt if there is some.[/quote]

How can you claim to be a professional in this business without knowing what First Investors is all about?

[quote=bankrep1]What is First Investors all about? I had a lady bring a million bucks to the bank and she wouldn't sit down with me said she was going there to the manager. I would like some dirt if there is some.[/quote]

It's so nice to have little guys like you to serve the poor folks with your pie charts and fixed annuities. That way, we big boys don't have to mess with them. Why would someone with money sit down with a child at a bank? Banks aren't positioned in people's minds as a place to go to make money. It's where we put our play money for our checking accounts.

<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

I should have clarified myself a little better. 

I am ranking these firms according to who targets the highest net worth clients.  Make no mistake MS, ML, SB, are among the most elite in the business.  But you can solicit to a lower let worth clientele in comparison to Goldman or Credit Suisse.  The real root of this comparison is Private Wealth Management vs. Retail.  

As far as “1/4 the resources” comment goes:

I imagine dealing with such large amounts of money these PWM reps would have easier access to CPAs and Lawyers.  When you are a retail broker with Merrill, you have to develop your own network of professionals.  At Bear Stearns I think it’s a given that these resources are a phone call away.    Another difference can be seen in the training programs.  PWM is more a team effort where retail is more survival. 

Lastly what are my qualifications?

Lady, you don’t want to go down this road with me…

Bond Guy,

<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

Can you tell me more about going indy?  Why would you leave a wirehouse to go to RJ- I think that’s where you are working?  Not to discredit RJ, it’s a good firm, but I would think you would thrive more at a wire.

DirtyDelta

What gave you the impression that BG is affiliated with RJ?  I think he’s at a wirehouse…

[quote=DirtyDeltaBro]

<o:p> </o:p>

I should have clarified myself a little better. 

I am ranking these firms according to who targets the highest net worth clients.  Make no mistake MS, ML, SB, are among the most elite in the business.  But you can solicit to a lower let worth clientele in comparison to Goldman or Credit Suisse.  The real root of this comparison is Private Wealth Management vs. Retail.  

As far as “1/4 the resources” comment goes:

I imagine dealing with such large amounts of money these PWM reps would have easier access to CPAs and Lawyers.  When you are a retail broker with Merrill, you have to develop your own network of professionals.  At Bear Stearns I think it’s a given that these resources are a phone call away.    Another difference can be seen in the training programs.  PWM is more a team effort where retail is more survival. 

Lastly what are my qualifications?

Lady, you don’t want to go down this road with me…

[quote=DirtyDeltaBro]

Bond Guy,

<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

Can you tell me more about going indy?  Why would you leave a wirehouse to go to RJ- I think that’s where you are working?  Not to discredit RJ, it’s a good firm, but I would think you would thrive more at a wire.

DirtyDelta

[/quote]

I'm not indy, so I can't help you. Wires offer lots of support and a lot of ass chewing motivation. indy, you're it, chief, cook and bottle washer. Give advice and run the office.

There is no wrong answer. It's about lifestyle and personal choice.

AGE and Ray Jay and Edward Jones should all be grouped together,
Merrill to my knowledge has about the same resources as Goldman etc.
They even use some alternative investment vehicles, like hedge funds
etc. I think you should read more and post less dirty. 

Rook:<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

This is a place for rookies and others to have questions answered.  Needless to say, I don’t think I should post less.  I should post more.  I agree I do need to read more.   

 Joe:

You are totally correct. I don’t know for sure if SB has ¼ of the resources Goldman has.   That’s why I titled the topic “the way I see them”             

I do know managing an account worth 20 million is much more complicated than managing a account worth 200k.  I know that new Goldman rookies work in teams, where new brokers at ML work on their own.  Lastly, I have herd stories of the elaborate clientele appreciation events Goldman hosts.  Goldman Private Wealth Management reps will spend more on one individual client as opposed to a retail broker at SB.

I would think Goldman’s Private Wealth Management reps could generate the same production and AUM with 5 accounts, where reps at SB would need 10 accounts. Because of the larger value of those 5 accounts, there are more tax implications, trust, and estate issues.  So because of the large value of the accounts at Goldman, I would think their rookies have easier access to lawyers, and CPAs?      

Am I correct -Joe?

Ultimately, I started this post because I want to know what the difference is between my self and a rookie at Goldman, Credit Suisse, etc.

I know they come from better schools.  Their qualifications destroy mine.  But I really want to know if they have better on the job resources than I do ..  

Dirty Delta Bro     

[quote=ymh_ymh_ymh]

 I was not happy with what Bear did 10 years plus ago and am very glad they no longer clear for bucket shops/boiler rooms. [/quote]

Ymh, I don’t want to keep this thread running forever because most every firm has a skeleton or two, or three in the closet, but while we’re lauding BSC and whitewashing it’s record, I thought a follow-up would be worthwhile.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

It wasn't 10+ years ago, it wasn't just bucketshops like A.R. Barron (although that was the highest profile case and led to criminal charges) it was trashy little fourth tier firms that proudly put “cleared through Bear Stearns” on every surface they could print it on as if that gave them some legitimacy. Bear also took a massive hit in the mutual fund trading scandals, and as far as I can tell the corner offices are all intact. The wiff remains.

As to GS, I think you have them confused with Frank Quattrone’s CSFB when you’re talking about internet stocks, and Abby is about as good as it gets. If we’re going to trash her because a year before Enron collapsed she was a believer, you’re going to have to make room for about 95% of Wall Street in the that category, and you’ll have to include Forbes and Fortune mags as well. In fact, it would be interesting to know what BSC was saying about the big E.

Mike, Abby can't call tops or bottoms worth a flip and Refco and Xethanol were much more recent than mutual fund market timing. Goldman Sachs smells to high heaven, Mike.

PRUSec took the worst hit on mutual fund market timing and that's why the DOJ slapped a "deferred prosecution" agreement on PRUdential Financial.

[quote=DirtyDeltaBro]

  Their qualifications destroy mine.  But I really want to know if they have better on the job resources than I do ..  

Dirty Delta Bro     

[/quote]

You mean credentials, not qualifications, don't you?

Two things:

Better credentials don't matter. if they did I'd be selling shoes right now.

Secondly, the Goldmans of the world are going after a different market than most of us. They are fishing for the plus ten million prospect, while most of us are going for something less than that. Not that there's anything wrong with going after the super wealthy. It's just that the competition changes and goes to another level. For private wealth managers, this is were their bread is buttered.

As for on the job resources? Lets see:

You've got a brain, they've got a brain

You put your pants on one leg at a time, they put their pants on one leg at a time.

You've got ambition, they've got ambition

You've got self confidence, they've got self confidence

So let's add it up.... yep, you've got all the resources they have.

Get your pants on, use your brain, fortify that self confidence, and use that ambition to show those Goldman guys that there's a new sheriff in town.

Not the answer you were looking for, but still, a complete list of everything you need to be a success. Well... that and a decent pair of shoes.

There is something else--it's called, for lack of a more gentle term, class.

It comes with being well born, well trained, and well educated.  It comes from moving in the "right circles."

It all comes together in an adult who is "well mannered."  That means far more than knowing what fork to use when having dinner with the ultra rich--it's an attitude, it's how you shake hands, it's how you speak, and dare I say it's how you write.

The idea that a guy with tens of millions of dollars is going to form some sort of bond with Bob Broker who stumbled into this business because he was unable to get any other job is fiction.

The ordinary stock broker has a better chance of making it in the NBA than he would landing the ultra high net worth client.

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

There is something else–it’s called, for lack of a more gentle term, class.

It comes with being well born, well trained, and well educated.  It comes from moving in the "right circles."

It all comes together in an adult who is "well mannered."  That means far more than knowing what fork to use when having dinner with the ultra rich--it's an attitude, it's how you shake hands, it's how you speak, and dare I say it's how you write.

The idea that a guy with tens of millions of dollars is going to form some sort of bond with Bob Broker who stumbled into this business because he was unable to get any other job is fiction.

The ordinary stock broker has a better chance of making it in the NBA than he would landing the ultra high net worth client.

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

There is something else--it's called, for lack of a more gentle term, class.

It comes with being well born, well trained, and well educated.  It comes from moving in the "right circles."

It all comes together in an adult who is "well mannered."  That means far more than knowing what fork to use when having dinner with the ultra rich--it's an attitude, it's how you shake hands, it's how you speak, and dare I say it's how you write.

The idea that a guy with tens of millions of dollars is going to form some sort of bond with Bob Broker who stumbled into this business because he was unable to get any other job is fiction.

The ordinary stock broker has a better chance of making it in the NBA than he would landing the ultra high net worth client.

[/quote]

Within certain social circles, true. Generally, not true. At least not true based on my experience.

Many wealthy individuals were not born that way and are more than likely to give joeaveragebroker a shot at showing his stuff. As for the silver spoon crowd, it's case by case.

Looking at the list of top 100 brokers, how many came from wealth?

[quote=ymh_ymh_ymh]

Mike, Abby can't call tops or bottoms worth a flip [/quote]

Nobody calls tops or bottoms, don't be fooled. The bigger question is who is listened to, and Abby's top tier. BSC doesn't ever have a player on their roster in her league.

[quote=ymh_ymh_ymh] and Refco and Xethanol were much more recent than mutual fund market timing. [/quote]

You want to compare a $250MM fine paid in March of 2006 to a couple of IPO dogs? Refco was a case of CEO fraud that hit not just GS, but BoA and CSFB and it looks like GS wasted some money buying into XNL, but hardly crimes....

You really want to get into who's IPO'd the biggest dogs? I doubt BSC would shine next to GS on that count.

[quote=ymh_ymh_ymh]PRUSec took the worst hit on mutual fund market timing and that's why the DOJ slapped a "deferred prosecution" agreement on PRUdential Financial. [/quote]

Well, at least we all have "We're not as bad as Pru" to hang our hats on

That is not part of the biographies, but I personally know half a dozen of them, and they're all from the "right families," the "right schools," the "right side of town," and they all married into similar families.

Are there exceptions?  Sure, but the odds of a guy who doesn't move in the right circles having a chance to land the whales are just about nil.

For most people it would be easier to open four-thousand $10,000 accounts than one $40,000,000 account.

The rolls of failed brokers are loaded with people who washed out because they fancied themselves to be capable of opening the huge accounts and ended up having a termination conference with their manager.

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

That is not part of the biographies, but I personally know half a dozen of them, and they’re all from the “right families,” the “right schools,” the “right side of town,” and they all married into similar families.

Are there exceptions?  Sure, but the odds of a guy who doesn't move in the right circles having a chance to land the whales are just about nil.

For most people it would be easier to open four-thousand $10,000 accounts than one $40,000,000 account.

The rolls of failed brokers are loaded with people who washed out because they fancied themselves to be capable of opening the huge accounts and ended up having a termination conference with their manager.

Ultimately, the issue relates much more to knowledge, experience and credentials. Most of the wealth in this country is earned (I seem to recall one study saying that only 9% of the people with more than $5 million investment assets had inherited the money), so the truth is that having certain grace is not really that big of a deal.

However, one skill that is well developed with the acquisition of wealth is the ability to separate a truely hard working person from a bull***t artist. People who've made money generally understand enough about finance to determine whether the person whose sitting across from them knows what they're talking about. Most people putting themselves out as financial experts don't. The average broker lacks the knowledge and skill to be of much value to people with lots of money - they aren't very useful to the middle class. This is the challenge that the average wirehouse trainee must confront.

I recently constructed an excel spreadsheet for aone of my largest clients that analyzed the relative attractiveness of a pledged asset mortgage vs a conventional one and which factored in the potential for volatility in the pledged portfolio. (This is a CFO, with a consulting background with an MBA from a decent school.) After he reviewed it, he commented that this was why he transferred his account from MS PWM to me - that essentially this kind of work wasn't possible from MS because the advisors there didn't understand how to do this kind of work. They always gave him outputs from boiler-plate financial planning software that weren't flexible and they never really understood the basis of their recommendations.

I don't have an MBA and I didn't learn how to do this kind of stuff until I was on the job. I learned how to do it on my weekends and at night. The reality is that if you were smart enough to graduate college, you will be smart enough to learn how (on the fly) to create financial models on spreadsheets. But, most advisors don't want to do that because its hard and unpleasant and most lack the discipline to do something they don't like on their own. That's why they need a sales manager over their shoulder and why they resort to "Gorilla Marketing" strategies in order to get clients.

If you want to do UHNW business, its not about who you know or where you went to prep school - what matters is the work you do and the sophistication of your approach. Hard work, education, empathy and more hard work are what get you ahead in this business - and what will get you to the front of the class. 

Good post san fran.  <!–
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We are getting some excellent feedback on this forum.  Finally!!!!  We need more feed back like this and less of the D**k is B****R lingo.

 <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

“The average broker lacks the knowledge and skill to be of much value to people with lots of money - they aren't very useful to the middle class. This is the challenge that the average wirehouse trainee must confront.”

Your opinion, how long does it take to make the transition from trainee struggling to hit production goals to a useful broker.   ML says we should do it in 2 years…

[quote=san fran broker]

Ultimately, the issue relates much more to knowledge, experience and credentials. Most of the wealth in this country is earned (I seem to recall one study saying that only 9% of the people with more than $5 million investment assets had inherited the money), so the truth is that having certain grace is not really that big of a deal.

However, one skill that is well developed with the acquisition of wealth is the ability to separate a truely hard working person from a bull***t artist. People who've made money generally understand enough about finance to determine whether the person whose sitting across from them knows what they're talking about. Most people putting themselves out as financial experts don't. The average broker lacks the knowledge and skill to be of much value to people with lots of money - they aren't very useful to the middle class. This is the challenge that the average wirehouse trainee must confront.

I recently constructed an excel spreadsheet for aone of my largest clients that analyzed the relative attractiveness of a pledged asset mortgage vs a conventional one and which factored in the potential for volatility in the pledged portfolio. (This is a CFO, with a consulting background with an MBA from a decent school.) After he reviewed it, he commented that this was why he transferred his account from MS PWM to me - that essentially this kind of work wasn't possible from MS because the advisors there didn't understand how to do this kind of work. They always gave him outputs from boiler-plate financial planning software that weren't flexible and they never really understood the basis of their recommendations.

I don't have an MBA and I didn't learn how to do this kind of stuff until I was on the job. I learned how to do it on my weekends and at night. The reality is that if you were smart enough to graduate college, you will be smart enough to learn how (on the fly) to create financial models on spreadsheets. But, most advisors don't want to do that because its hard and unpleasant and most lack the discipline to do something they don't like on their own. That's why they need a sales manager over their shoulder and why they resort to "Gorilla Marketing" strategies in order to get clients.

If you want to do UHNW business, its not about who you know or where you went to prep school - what matters is the work you do and the sophistication of your approach. Hard work, education, empathy and more hard work are what get you ahead in this business - and what will get you to the front of the class. 

[/quote]

+1, excellent!!!!!!

Regarding San Francisco's comments--very well written and well considered.

I tend to disagree with the Pollyannish idea that all it takes is perseverance and creativity.  Certainly that is part of it, but handling people's money is a very sensitive task--and the more they have the more likely they are to be very discerning in their choices.

I use the word "class" to summarize a variety of traits that are absent in most people--it's not just the knowledge of what a finger bowl is for, it's an array of things.

This forum has witnessed a discussion of how to properly dress for this career--those with the class that I am speaking of know that it is never acceptable to suggest you're a financial professional if you're not wearing a dark suit.  Period.

Those with the class that I am speaking of know the difference between advise and advice.

Those with the class that I am speaking of do not excuse a lack of formal education with comments such as "This is a sales job, plain and simple."  Yes it's sales, but if you're not well spoken and able to write the language most clients will "pick up" on your inabilities and exclude you from consideration.

I think it's a poor use of an advice giving forum to suggest that the dull witted can make it in this business if they just try hard enough.

I think it's a poor use of an advice giving forum to suggest that the physically unattractive or poorly groomed can make it in the business, because they cannot.

I think it's a poor use of an advice giving forum to suggest that somebody who does not have an extraordinary network of contacts can survive long enough to gather enough assets to succeed.

I think it's a poor use of an advice giving forum to suggest that a married person who does not have an exceptionally strong marriage is going to be able to keep both the career and the marriage alive.

Finally I think it's a poor use of an advice giving forum to suggest that a young man or woman can generate confidence among those with money to invest--but can very likely convince lots of people to add to their life insurance coverage, open a retirement vehicle, or sell a 45 year old who has maxed out his 401(k) some tax advantages in a variable annuity.

The ranks of failed regsistered reps is littered with people who did not take time to consider the realities that I am pushing--based, of course on nothing more than thirty five years worth of watching the revolving door.

[quote=DirtyDeltaBro]

We are getting some excellent feedback on this forum.  Finally!!!!  We need more feed back like this and less of the D**k is B****R lingo.

 <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

“The average broker lacks the knowledge and skill to be of much value to people with lots of money - they aren't very useful to the middle class. This is the challenge that the average wirehouse trainee must confront.”

This is exactly what I am fighting with right now.  How did you manage to learn all of this, prospect, and open accounts?    [/quote]

Thanks everyone for your nice comments.

Its a difficult tightrope to walk, but what I did was:

In the first year, I read the books I was given in training (unlike most of my peers) and I also read at least one book a month (Intelligent Asset Allocator, Winning the Losers Game, etc). I also took an excel training class. I went to at least 2 networking events a week, cold called about 2 hours a day and 1 hour to "warm calling" leads I was given by the company (mostly crap). I had a pretty good idea of my niche market after about 6 mos.

In my second year, I started studying for the CFA - 2 hours a day (I hid from my sales manager while doing this - although he was a pretty cool guy anyway - just didn't believe in anything but cold calling.) I attended ALL of the firm's training classes held locally (free food and good information - management didn't seem to mind if it was firm training.) I read just about every trade journal for my niche's section on financial planning.

In my third year, I started reading lots of stuff on financial planning and my niche market (a decent chunk of books are available). One or so a week. I also started reading a lot about stock options on the web. (Part of my niche.)

In my fourth year, I studied longer and harder for the CFA Level 2 and did nothing else, but read a little bit here and there.

I finished the CFA level three earlier this year. Now, I read all of the major pieces from the firm's research (I'm in my fifth year) - I'm pretty busy right now (although, not TOO busy to post apparently). I am planning on taking the CFP test at some point in the future...

[quote=DirtyDeltaBro]Your opinion, how long does it take to make the transition from trainee struggling to hit production goals to a useful broker.   ML says we should do it in 2 years… [/quote]

IMHO, the ML has really studied this and I'm inclined to agree with their take on these matters.

SF Broker, the fact you're up and at your place of work at 0600 PST or at least up out of bed before the bell and functioning at 90% plus efficiency says a lot for you.

WORK ethic, unfortunately, is a 4 letter word for many in your profession.

Great posts....

[quote=ymh_ymh_ymh]

SF Broker, the fact you’re up and at your place of work at 0600 PST or at least up out of bed before the bell and functioning at 90% plus efficiency says a lot for you.

WORK ethic, unfortunately, is a 4 letter word for many in your profession.

Great posts....[/quote]

[quote=mktsystms]

I really like SF Broker's posts too, and strong work ethic has to be a given for anyone to succeed, no matter the industry.  But in regards to time of day, if you live on the West Coast, and you're in the investment business, the days start early. (The bond market opens at 5:30 am, PST.)
[/quote]

Try living in Hawaii.

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

[quote=mktsystms]

I really like SF Broker's posts too, and strong work ethic has to be a given for anyone to succeed, no matter the industry.  But in regards to time of day, if you live on the West Coast, and you're in the investment business, the days start early. (The bond market opens at 5:30 am, PST.)
[/quote]

Try living in Hawaii.

Wow, great posts.

[quote=AirForce]Wow, great posts. [/quote]

I would think that a guy in the Air Force would have known about the time zones.

Soon 2 B gone. We know time zones, but typically we are going east, SW Asia, instead of to Cali.

[quote=AirForce]Soon 2 B gone. We know time zones, but typically we are going east, SW Asia, instead of to Cali.[/quote]

Are you saying you can travel east to reach the west?  What's wrong with you, do you think the world is round?