Finding clients before designations

If you think you’re gonna gain people’s confidence with a bunch of letters after your name, you are dead in the water.

For those who have not been following along--Knucklehead is proud of the fact that he was not smart enough to pass Series 7, that he screws everybody he can with high juice annuities, and that he will never be able to get a CFP because he doesn't have the requisite background.

That he denigrates anything and everything that bears the earmarks of a successful financial professional is not unexpected.

Pay attention to nothing--as in NOTHING--he has to say.

He’s already forgotten much more than you’ll ever know.

Wildcat, it has been my personal experience that the subject of designations almost never comes up.  The best way to instantly have credibility is to get referrals from well respected people.

I generally concur w/NASD’s assessment above about

knucklehead/dirk…except that his comment above does ring

true.

[quote=anonymous]Wildcat, it has been my personal experience that the subject of designations almost never comes up.  The best way to instantly have credibility is to get referrals from well respected people.[/quote]

I disagree, and I think their imporance is going to become even more critical in the coming years.

We're reading about the "group" Bill Singer is trying to start to open the business up to the bandits and thieves.

A very similar grassroots effort could be started to develop the image that the only people who can be trusted are those with CFP designations.  I am amazed it hasn't happened already.

Saying that not having a CFP is not a disadvantage is akin to trying to prove a negative--when you don't get a deal you are rarely told that the reason was because you didn't have something.

But when you do close a deal it may very well be because your business card said CFP after your name.  People do notice your card, they notice things like titles and professional qualifications.  Only those without such things on their cards will swear that they don't matter.

What I've never thought was very good is "Assistant Vice President," which seems more like an insult than a reward.

I agree…to some extent the personal finance press pukes are already pushing the CFP as minimum standard gospel…they may not be the best people to give advice, but people read it.  All things being equal, it’s obviously better to have a respected designation.

What I've never thought was very good is "Assistant Vice President of Paperclips," which seems more like an insult than a reward.

Forgive me for the editorial license...I just couldn't help myself...

Agree with your premise...assistant vice seems a redundant insult...

I have a CFP tm  and am a  CFA and I have found both of the
designations useful.  The CFP tm helps with the general HNW retail
business, especially when working with estate and tax planning
issus.  The CFA has been valuable in that we target large assets
pools and we run private portfolio’s.  Discouraging the pursuit of
such designations is just not right.    

[quote=rightway]Discouraging the pursuit of such designations is just not right.[/quote]
Ida know, Philo thinks that guy used to be a genius.

[quote=Indyone]

What I’ve never thought was very good is “Assistant Vice President of Paperclips,” which seems more like an insult than a reward.

Forgive me for the editorial license...I just couldn't help myself...

Agree with your premise...assistant vice seems a redundant insult...

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Indyone]

What I've never thought was very good is "Assistant Vice President of Paperclips," which seems more like an insult than a reward.

Forgive me for the editorial license...I just couldn't help myself...

Agree with your premise...assistant vice seems a redundant insult...

[/quote]



You rock!
[/quote]

You two yo-yos would kill to have my deal.

I'm sixty-one and drawing a rare defined benefits pension of close to $300,000 per year--in addition to my (so far) excellent run with Google strips, straps and straddles and a semi impressive 401(k) that I let my wife fool around with.

She keeps telling me about the Fortune Brands she bought at 36.  When she does I ask her how the Boston Chicken is working out.

What you boys have to remember is that I'm the expensive overhead that you whine about--but see if you can arrange your life in such a way that when you're my age you'll be able to have a pension that pays you more than you're making now.  You should be able to do that, right--after all you're world class financial advisors, right?

A bit of news based on a dinner conversation last evening.  The wife is coming around to the idea that we leave the Big Apple--Hilton Head or Amelia Island are attractive, but we like to travel so much we will probably just buy a condo somewhere so we can simply close it up and hit the road most of the year.

Atlanta more than likely--got lots of friends there and from what I hear they have an airport.

She, more than me, hasn't wanted to leave because of things she does--minor league patron of the arts type stuff mostly--but we both especially love our bus ride up to 96th and B'way and our stroll back to midtown several nights a week--even in the dead of winter.  Well, in winter we ususally get off the bus in the 80s 'cause that wind can rip you a new one on certain days.

Sometimes we ride the subway to Christopher Street, have dinner in the Village, and stroll back up Sixth Avenue to Midtown.

We both worry that if we get away from the walking we won't get enough exercise--but I keep reminding her that those walks almost always involve stopping off somewhere for an ice cream, or a chunk of something that tastes good but is the epitome of "A moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips."

Have you ever walked though Central Park in a gentle rain?  Nothing beats it.  New York is a fantastic place when you don't have to ask yourself if you can afford to do what you'd like to do--and I'm not talking about putting on a tux every weekend and going to some big deal.

But when there's thirty live theaters going within a ten minute walk of your house--well, your apartment--and there's Central Park, and Lincoln Center, and Rockefeller Center, and the Yankees, and tennis, and pizza on every corner what is there not to love?

But we've been here long enough--like the swallows there comes a time to go home.

NYC real estate is still hot as fire--we should be able to sell our place up here and buy a place down South for what we made in profit alone in the city so nice they named it twice.

Yep, being in charge of ordering paper clips was a horrible gig.  You should be so lucky.

[quote=NASD Newbie][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Indyone]

What I've never thought was very good is "Assistant Vice President of Paperclips," which seems more like an insult than a reward.

Forgive me for the editorial license...I just couldn't help myself...

Agree with your premise...assistant vice seems a redundant insult...

[/quote]



You rock!
[/quote]

You two yo-yos would kill to have my deal.

I'm sixty-one and drawing a rare defined benefits pension of close to $300,000 per year--in addition to my (so far) excellent run with Google strips, straps and straddles and a semi impressive 401(k) that I let my wife fool around with.

She keeps telling me about the Fortune Brands she bought at 36.  When she does I ask her how the Boston Chicken is working out.

What you boys have to remember is that I'm the expensive overhead that you whine about--but see if you can arrange your life in such a way that when you're my age you'll be able to have a pension that pays you more than you're making now.  You should be able to do that, right--after all you're world class financial advisors, right?

A bit of news based on a dinner conversation last evening.  The wife is coming around to the idea that we leave the Big Apple--Hilton Head or Amelia Island are attractive, but we like to travel so much we will probably just buy a condo somewhere so we can simply close it up and hit the road most of the year.

Atlanta more than likely--got lots of friends there and from what I hear they have an airport.

She, more than me, hasn't wanted to leave because of things she does--minor league patron of the arts type stuff mostly--but we both especially love our bus ride up to 96th and B'way and our stroll back to midtown several nights a week--even in the dead of winter.  Well, in winter we ususally get off the bus in the 80s 'cause that wind can rip you a new one on certain days.

Sometimes we ride the subway to Christopher Street, have dinner in the Village, and stroll back up Sixth Avenue to Midtown.

We both worry that if we get away from the walking we won't get enough exercise--but I keep reminding her that those walks almost always involve stopping off somewhere for an ice cream, or a chunk of something that tastes good but is the epitome of "A moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips."

Have you ever walked though Central Park in a gentle rain?  Nothing beats it.  New York is a fantastic place when you don't have to ask yourself if you can afford to do what you'd like to do--and I'm not talking about putting on a tux every weekend and going to some big deal.

But when there's thirty live theaters going within a ten minute walk of your house--well, your apartment--and there's Central Park, and Lincoln Center, and Rockefeller Center, and the Yankees, and tennis, and pizza on every corner what is there not to love?

But we've been here long enough--like the swallows there comes a time to go home.

NYC real estate is still hot as fire--we should be able to sell our place up here and buy a place down South for what we made in profit alone in the city so nice they named it twice.

Yep, being in charge of ordering paper clips was a horrible gig.  You should be so lucky.

[/quote]

Thanks for sharing that with us. I feel a lot closer to you.

[quote=knucklehead]

Thanks for sharing that with us. I feel a lot closer to you. [/quote]

You're welcome.  If I  had known how much you care I would have invited you to mass today--I did the collection plate drill.  We could  have used a generous soul such as yourself.

http://www.actorschapel.org/

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=knucklehead]

Thanks for sharing that with us. I feel a lot closer to you. [/quote]

You're welcome.  If I  had known how much you care I would have invited you to mass today--I did the collection plate drill.  We could  have used a generous soul such as yourself.

http://www.actorschapel.org/

[/quote]

My dad is Jewish and was asked to do the collection basket-on-a-pole at St. Patrick's in NY. He was glad to help, but noone told him that making a dontation to the basket is voluntary, so he just kept standing there until people gave in and threw something in the basket.

[quote=knucklehead]

My dad is Jewish and was asked to do the collection basket-on-a-pole at St. Patrick's in NY. He was glad to help, but noone told him that making a dontation to the basket is voluntary, so he just kept standing there until people gave in and threw something in the basket. [/quote]

Damn Knuckle, it sounds like your father is even dumber than you.  Who could not know that making a church offering is voluntary?

Do you know your mother, or were you found on the steps of a Temple?

Nasty, it all sounds nice, but really, I'm fine.  I've just opened my solo(K) and will dump about half the max in this year, and start maxing it out next year, assuming a very modest amount of growth (I know, I know, the bottom is falling out and next year I'll be destitute).  Will I have $300K/year in retirement?  Don't know.  I'm comfortable that I'll have more than enough.

The AVP of paperclips was something I just couldn't resist and besides, it wasn't really directed at you.  I think even Joe acknowledges that you were probably at a rank of VP.

All,

Appreciate the comments.  One more question for those in the camp that think a designation is a benefit in gaining clients...

Assuming it takes me from now to the normal period to gain my CFP (and the CFA is three years off, by nature), what's a proactive method, in your opinion(s), to building a book of business pre-designation?

[quote=Wildcat_02]

All,

Appreciate the comments.  One more question for those in the camp that think a designation is a benefit in gaining clients...

Assuming it takes me from now to the normal period to gain my CFP (and the CFA is three years off, by nature), what's a proactive method, in your opinion(s), to building a book of business pre-designation?

[/quote]

If you need to be a cfp to build a book, how can you build a book without being a cfp? Now that I think about it...how did I build a book without being a cfp? Oh, yeah. I remember...I worked hard, figured out what people and wanted and sold it to them. Gosh, I'm smart.

I am in the group that thinks CFP status is a good idea.  However, it really won't make any difference to the relative success of your prospecting methods.

The CFP is not a magic bullet that will feed qualified prospects into your office.  In other words, you will need to use the same prospecting methods before and after you are certified.

There are any number of ways (cold calling, seminars, networking, etc.) that are used by many folks to prospect.  My advice to you is to try a couple methods and find the one that works best for you.

Your next step is to work hard over the coming years to prospect with the goal of getting qualified people into your office that will ultimately become clients.  If you think this sounds like a long and tedious process, then I've succeeded in explaining the reality of the business for a newcomer.

Bottom line - CFP is still a great idea, but it does not (and never will in my opinion) replace the need for hard work in building a business.

[quote=Proton]

I am in the group that thinks CFP status is a good idea.  However, it really won't make any difference to the relative success of your prospecting methods.

The CFP is not a magic bullet that will feed qualified prospects into your office.  In other words, you will need to use the same prospecting methods before and after you are certified.

There are any number of ways (cold calling, seminars, networking, etc.) that are used by many folks to prospect.  My advice to you is to try a couple methods and find the one that works best for you.

Your next step is to work hard over the coming years to prospect with the goal of getting qualified people into your office that will ultimately become clients.  If you think this sounds like a long and tedious process, then I've succeeded in explaining the reality of the business for a newcomer.

Bottom line - CFP is still a great idea, but it does not (and never will in my opinion) replace the need for hard work in building a business.

[/quote]

I can do hard work - no problem!  Thanks for the advice...

The keys to success in this industry fall in this order.

1)Prospecting ability
2)Sales ability
3)Knowledge (a distant 3rd)

People with prospecting ability, but no sales ability or knowledge can do everything joint work and make a fortune.  People with knowledge, but no prospecting ability end up as paraplanners making $50,000.

It probably takes 500 hours to study for the CFP (just a guess).  In 500 hours, you can walk into 5000 businesses or make 25,000 phone calls.  What's a better use of your time...working or studying?

This is a very tough business.  Time spent studying is going to hurt your chances to survive.  Spend all of your time working on the tasks that will guarantee your survival.  Once your survival is guaranteed, then you can spend the time getting designations.

There is a saying that goes like this:

Work Smart Rather Than Hard

Those who are advising that having a CFP designation is not necessary are those who cannot get a CFP designation so they are trying to convince you to join them at the lower end of the spectrum.

Don't do it.  Getting the CFP designation is going to become a minimum standard for credibilty and when it does those who don't have it will fade into the background.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

There is a saying that goes like this:

Work Smart Rather Than Hard

Those who are advising that having a CFP designation is not necessary are those who cannot get a CFP designation so they are trying to convince you to join them at the lower end of the spectrum.

Don't do it.  Getting the CFP designation is going to become a minimum standard for credibilty and when it does those who don't have it will fade into the background.

[/quote]

NASDY, I'm a CPA with a Master's in Accounting. People don't care about the letters after my name. They care whether or not they like me and if I'm telling the truth. People can SENSE the truth when they hear it.

[quote=anonymous]

It probably takes 500 hours to study for the CFP (just a guess).  In 500 hours, you can walk into 5000 businesses or make 25,000 phone calls.  What's a better use of your time...working or studying?[/quote]

Perhaps the solution is to not study during hours when you could be prospecting......

[quote=knucklehead]

NASDY, I'm a CPA with a Master's in Accounting. People don't care about the letters after my name. They care whether or not they like me and if I'm telling the truth. People can SENSE the truth when they hear it. [/quote]

First I don't believe you regarding the CPA and Masters.  You're too dishonest and focused on taking the short cuts for that to be true, but it's also irrelevant.

The fact is that the industry is grasping at logical steps to develop a more professional image.

With the ongoing attack on the NASD being discussed on another thread the industry has even more compelling reasons to dump the uneducated.

Because of the one firm one vote rule at NASD things like education requirement can never pass--however, what can happen is an organization such as SIA (which is big firm driven) could start an "Investor Education" program that delivers the message that if your broker does not have the CFP designation they are not to be trusted.

Put ads like that in widely distributed retail financial mags, in the WSJ, in Investors Daily, and on talking head shows such as Fox's Business Block and you will reach about 90% of the retail investors.

Next get the Investment Company Institute on board.  If the ICI--which represents the mutual fund industry--establishes a rule that their members may only allow CFP licensed representatives to earn trails not having a CFP becomes damn near fatal.

It's crazy to think that Wall Street is going to lose its power and prestige to the sleazy members of the NASD--and if they're going to fight that they might as well fight for other things as well.

The industry needs to purge itself of people who are unable to obtain a CFP--the biz needs people without CFPs like it needs a dose of clap.

Is that why you were forced out?  Because you didn’t have a CFP or because you had (have?) the clap?

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=knucklehead]

NASDY, I'm a CPA with a Master's in Accounting. People don't care about the letters after my name. They care whether or not they like me and if I'm telling the truth. People can SENSE the truth when they hear it. [/quote]

First I don't believe you regarding the CPA and Masters.  You're too dishonest and focused on taking the short cuts for that to be true, but it's also irrelevant.

[/quote]

You crack me up.

"Perhaps the solution is to not study during hours when you could be prospecting......"

It sounds good, but I'm just curious, when are these hours?

There might come a day when the CFP is needed, but today is simply not that day.  I know a lot of million dollar producers, but only one has a CFP and he became a million dollar producer before he got his CFP.

A new guy simply can't afford to spend time doing things other than prospecting. 

The only people who are impressed with cfp’s are other cfp’s.

[quote=knucklehead]The only people who are impressed with cfp’s are other cfp’s. [/quote]



No, this is not true.  Many people begin their search for an
advisor by making this the first screen.  Having the designation
helps and certainly can never ever do any harm. 

[quote=anonymous]

"Perhaps the solution is to not study during hours when you could be prospecting......"

It sounds good, but I'm just curious, when are these hours? [/quote]

That would be after 8PM and before 5AM. Let me guess, you're cold calling at those hours, right?

[quote=anonymous]

There might come a day when the CFP is needed, but today is simply not that day.  I know a lot of million dollar producers, but only one has a CFP and he became a million dollar producer before he got his CFP. [/quote]

You might want to look into when they started their careers (these million dollar producers you know). There's a world of difference in the biz today and for people begining now than the biz the guys starting even as recently as ten years ago saw.

[quote=anonymous]

A new guy simply can't afford to spend time doing things other than prospecting. 

[/quote]

You find me someone prospecting 24 hours a day and we'll talk. Until then, whether you as a non-CFP like it or not, it's a worthwhile use of time when you aren't Prospecting.

BTW, I read through the last "top dog" type article in the trades and was struck by how few of those guys lacked the CFP designation and how not a single one carried an insurance designation on their cards.

'Just saying...

[quote=knucklehead]The only people who are impressed with cfp's are other cfp's. [/quote]

Funny, the only people that dismiss them are people in the industry that don't have them. I've yet to see a client who didn't think it was a plus and I've yet to a consumer-focused article that played it down....

Mikebutler, I agree that if a new guy has some time between 8:00 P.M and 5:00 A.M. he can study.  I'm not arguing that it's not worthwhile.  I'm arguing that a new person has so much other stuff on their plate that taking time to get letters after their name will decrease their chance for success.

The odds are so stacked against a new guy succeeding.  All of his time during the day needs to be spent seeing people and fighting to see them.  This means that the evenings must be spent getting work done.

I know that CFPs feel that the designation is so important.  I can just speak for myself that the subject almost never gets broached and my practice is almost exclusively business owners.   I am not anti-cfp and will be sitting for it next year.  I'm just not expecting it to have any impact on my practice,........but I might be wrong, thus I'm getting it.

[quote=anonymous]

I'm not arguing that it's not worthwhile.  I'm arguing that a new person has so much other stuff on their plate that taking time to get letters after their name will decrease their chance for success.

[/quote]

I’m two months into the POA program at ML.  I’ll be sitting for the CFP in March which is about a week after I go production and start needing to gather AUM.  So far I believe that what I’ve been learning will be helpful to me when I do finally get out there.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

--WM

[quote=WealthManager][quote=anonymous]

I'm not arguing that it's not worthwhile.  I'm arguing that a new person has so much other stuff on their plate that taking time to get letters after their name will decrease their chance for success.

[/quote]

I’m two months into the POA program at ML.  I’ll be sitting for the CFP in March which is about a week after I go production and start needing to gather AUM.  So far I believe that what I’ve been learning will be helpful to me when I do finally get out there.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

--WM

[/quote]

Nothing wrong with that.  If you have base salary, it's not a bad idea.

However, if you're an independent and need the cash now, I'd start selling ASAP.  Afterall, it would be unfortunate to go through all of that education when relationship building is what drives your business. 

[quote=WealthManager][quote=anonymous]

I'm not arguing that it's not worthwhile.  I'm arguing that a new person has so much other stuff on their plate that taking time to get letters after their name will decrease their chance for success.

[/quote]

I’m two months into the POA program at ML.  I’ll be sitting for the CFP in March which is about a week after I go production and start needing to gather AUM.  So far I believe that what I’ve been learning will be helpful to me when I do finally get out there.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

--WM

[/quote]

Come to think of it, you can study and network/prospect at the same time.  Planting seeds and enhancing relationships pan out overtime.  So, you can do that now. 

WealthManager, if you can get the CFP now, that is good.  It just doesn’t make sense when you have to produce and fighting like hell to stay in the business.

A funny thing happened today...I netted an even $4,000.00 today. $50,000 ticket paid at 8%, not subject to the grid.

Not a huge day, but not bad either. The funny part is that I did it without being a CFP. How can that be, you ask? It's nothing short of a miracle.

[quote=knucklehead]

A funny thing happened today…I netted an even $4,000.00 today. $50,000 ticket paid at 8%, not subject to the grid.

Not a huge day, but not bad either. The funny part is that I did it without being a CFP. How can that be, you ask? It's nothing short of a miracle.

[quote=knucklehead]

A funny thing happened today…I netted an even $4,000.00 today. $50,000 ticket paid at 8%, not subject to the grid.

Not a huge day, but not bad either. The funny part is that I did it without being a CFP. How can that be, you ask? It's nothing short of a miracle.

[quote=rightway] [quote=knucklehead]

A funny thing happened today...I netted an even $4,000.00 today. $50,000 ticket paid at 8%, not subject to the grid.

Not a huge day, but not bad either. The funny part is that I did it without being a CFP. How can that be, you ask? It's nothing short of a miracle.

[/quote]

No, not a miracle.  This is your job, and you get paid for it.  There are no CFP tm certificants taking those trades from you.   There is no doubt people can do well without any designations at all...but that is no reason to NOT pursue them.  There are benefits, both personal and professional, of getting them so putting them down is just a waste of time.
[/quote]

Waste of time and money could be a reason, couldn't it?

[quote=knucklehead][quote=rightway] [quote=knucklehead]

A funny thing happened today...I netted an even $4,000.00 today. $50,000 ticket paid at 8%, not subject to the grid.

Not a huge day, but not bad either. The funny part is that I did it without being a CFP. How can that be, you ask? It's nothing short of a miracle.

[/quote]

No, not a miracle.  This is your job, and you get paid for it.  There are no CFP tm certificants taking those trades from you.   There is no doubt people can do well without any designations at all...but that is no reason to NOT pursue them.  There are benefits, both personal and professional, of getting them so putting them down is just a waste of time.
[/quote]

Waste of time and money could be a reason, couldn't it?

Have you factored in the opportunity cost of diverting your focus? STudying could cost me over $100,000 in lost income! Also, I'm a Master's level accountant. I already feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I don't need a trademarked logo after my name.

anon-

I hope that you aren't saying that it takes 500 hours of study time for the exam alone.  If someone needs that many hours to pass the exam, they should find another profession. 

If someone went through a 'program', to obtain the education requirement they would have to go through 6 classes (some programs have more, but only 6 is required).  They would probably be once a week for 12 weeks and a 3 hour class.  So thats 36 hours per class in attendance alone, & 216 total classroom hours for the entire curriculum. 

Even then, if you need to put in an additional 284 hours of study time for the exam, that seems a little steep. 

If someone were to go and do the online program, they could get it done even faster and easier.  Point being, it's not that much work like people make it out to be.  If everyone knows thier stuff in this business like so many of your claim, this test should be a breeze and you should get it out of the way. 

I may have to agree with Newbie for once, I think that the CFP will be a minimum that most affluent people look for within the next 5-7 years.  Notice I said a minimum.  For youngsters with just a series 7 to be running around, that can be a scary thought. 

The only substitute for credentials is probably experience.  And a good bit of it. 

ribsnwhiskey, I'm just guessing at the study time.  However,  500 hours only equates to 3 months of full time studying.  I'm talking total time to prepare for the exam including classes.

I get asked about the CFP about 3-4 times a year.  I think that I've only been asked once in the last 6 months.  The question never comes from an affluent client.  It seems like the question only comes from DIY type people who have read an article in "Money Magazine" or something similar on 'traits to look for in a financial advisor'

About 5 years ago, I considered getting my CFP because the question was starting to be raised about once a month.  I felt that it would become more of an issue every year.  Curiously enough, the subject seems to come up less frequently each and every year.

The prospects and clients who see no value in the CFP tm designation
will be just fine working with those sales reps without it…so they
will NOT ask about it.  Those prospects and clients that DO value
it will likely never even meet with someone who does not have the
designation…therefore those without never see these people and never
be asked the question.



I am surprised so many people are actively AGAINST the darn thing. 

[quote=knucklehead]

Have you factored in the opportunity cost of
diverting your focus? STudying could cost me over $100,000 in lost
income! Also, I’m a Master’s level accountant. I already feel all warm
and fuzzy inside. I don’t need a trademarked logo after my name.

[quote=rightway] [quote=knucklehead]

Have you factored in the opportunity cost of diverting your focus? STudying could cost me over $100,000 in lost income! Also, I'm a Master's level accountant. I already feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I don't need a trademarked logo after my name.

[/quote]

Why waste the time with a masters in accounting?  That education can and should be learned in real life situations, not in some school books.  Talk about a waste of time and money.
[/quote]

I can schmooze with CPA's...I'm in the club. YOU can't do that.

Nice “club”.  Trust me sport, I don’t need to “schmooze” (whatever
value that adds) with any more CPA’s.  We disagree.  Good
luck and good selling.

[quote=rightway]Nice "club".  Trust me sport, I don't need to "schmooze" (whatever value that adds) with any more CPA's.  We disagree.  Good luck and good selling. [/quote]

Here's the answer...more value than the silly cfp trademark.

[quote=knucklehead]

I can schmooze with CPA's...I'm in the club. YOU can't do that.

[/quote]

What a club. The professional world's equivalent of the High School math club, only slightly ahead, in charm, grace and wit to the insurance salesman’s club.

Say, that makes you a two time winner, eh?

I agree with Rightway, best of luck, knucklehead…

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=knucklehead]

I can schmooze with CPA's...I'm in the club. YOU can't do that.

[/quote]

What a club. The professional world's equivalent of the High School math club, only slightly ahead, in charm, grace and wit to the insurance salesman’s club.

Say, that makes you a two time winner, eh?

I agree with Rightway, best of luck, knucklehead…

[/quote]

Have you guys ever noticed that cpa's give referrals? Did you know that they like the idea that I'm in the club? It gives me an advantage. Jobhopper, how do YOU attract people? Tell them how you've had 10 jobs in 10 years?  

I was asked by a client yesterday what my qualifications are. I was upfront with him and told him I was as young as they come. He asked me "Are you a CFP?" I told him "no I'm not". He asked "Why in the **** would I do business with you?"

I replied simply with this: "There's a guy here who DOES have his CFP, is barely making ends meet and could get fired in a month. Do you want to help him out?"

Needless to say I got hung up on

The truth is there are CFPs out there failing whether people accept it or not. Having a CFP and an extensive vocabulary does not automatically qualify you as an insightful person.

Look at NASDY for proof. He has to prove his worthiness on a message board of all places. Makes it easier to not have to deal with real life.

[quote=anabuhabkuss]I was asked by a client yesterday what my qualifications are. I was upfront with him and told him I was as young as they come. He asked me "Are you a CFP?" I told him "no I'm not". He asked "Why in the **** would I do business with you?"[/quote]

I've paraphrased you here, but I thought it was important for some of the doubters to see this.  I'm a CPA/CFP® and to be honest, I don't know how much business it actually brings me, but I do believe that both help with credibility and there's no doubt in my mind that the extra credibility translates to more clients, more AUM, and more net.

Guess what, Dirk Knuckledragger, you'll never see the above-referenced client because you don't possess the necessary mark...and with your attitude, you're not much of a credit to the club either.

[quote=Indyone]

[quote=anabuhabkuss]I was asked by a client yesterday what my qualifications are. I was upfront with him and told him I was as young as they come. He asked me "Are you a CFP?" I told him "no I'm not". He asked "Why in the **** would I do business with you?"[/quote]

I've paraphrased you here, but I thought it was important for some of the doubters to see this.  I'm a CPA/CFP® and to be honest, I don't know how much business it actually brings me, but I do believe that both help with credibility and there's no doubt in my mind that the extra credibility translates to more clients, more AUM, and more net.

Guess what, Dirk Knuckledragger, you'll never see the above-referenced client because you don't possess the necessary mark...and with your attitude, you're not much of a credit to the club either.

[/quote]

I've made it this far without him as a client and I suppose I can muddle through the rest of my career without him, too. If he had asked me if I were a cfp, I would've told him that I was a CPA and that anyone with a GED can be a cfp.

Well I know you and I don’t agree on this, but I’ll maintain that it’s not exactly a GED-level test.

[quote=Indyone]Well I know you and I don't agree on this, but I'll maintain that it's not exactly a GED-level test.[/quote]

I don't disagree with you. However, there is no barrier to entry for eligibility to take the cfp quiz. You know that, already.

[quote=knucklehead][quote=mikebutler222][quote=knucklehead]

I can schmooze with CPA's...I'm in the club. YOU can't do that.

[/quote]

What a club. The professional world's equivalent of the High School math club, only slightly ahead, in charm, grace and wit to the insurance salesman’s club.

Say, that makes you a two time winner, eh?

I agree with Rightway, best of luck, knucklehead…

[/quote]

Have you guys ever noticed that cpa's give referrals? Did you know that they like the idea that I'm in the club? [/quote]

No doubt your "approach" to business attracts referrals from "the club" .     I envision and exchange like this one;

“ Say, Bob, that guy who says he’s a former CPA that’s been hanging around here, ever refer anybody to him?”

“What, are you joking? Have you ever heard him say anything even remotely professional about the people he deals with? Everything with that guy’s about what he’ll get paid shoving an annuity on them. You wanna put your clients, your career in front of that guy?“

“Good point. Say, any idea what he’s not a CPA now? Some ethical problem?”

[quote=knucklehead][

Jobhopper, how do YOU attract people? Tell them how you've had 10 jobs in 10 years?

[/quote]

Actually, I've had the one job (unlike you, jobhopper, thus no explanation’s been necessary) even though I've moved. Then again, since most clients have moved with me, it hasn't been an issue. As to how I get clients, it's mostly referrals from clients and other professionals. Seems being "part of the club" hasn't hurt, and a great feedback to the referrer from the new clients hasn't hurt either.

Perhaps it comes from looking to do what’s right for the client involved and not on commission rates and payouts. Just a guess…

anabuhabkuss,

I didn't quite understand your last post.  Can I assume that you meant prospect and not client.  Since you had to tell the person that you were young, I will also assume that this was simply a phone call and not an in person meeting.  Additionally, since your response to his question didn't mention a someone who referred you to him, I will assume that this was a cold call.  Therefore, even if you were old and a CFP, the odds are still that you would not have secured the appointment. 

A referral from a well respected person will get you in all of the time.   A designation (of any type) and $2 will get you a cup of coffee.

It is a disservice to anybody who is reading this stuff to suggest that it is unnecessary--or even ill advised--to obtain a CFP designation.

There is no way to prove a negative, so you'll never know how many clients you did not get because your business card did not reflect the qualification.

I agree that there is nothing stronger than a well regarded recommendation--but once again the negative comes into play.  Just as you can never know if you missed a client, you can never know if you missed a referal.

The only people who are disdainful of the CFP designation are those who are either too lazy, or not bright enough, to obtain it.

Soon the education requirement will kick in--then you can expect those without the education to really start to sneer at those who are educated.

The next step will be to convince the populus that only people who have qualified as CFPs should be trusted.  The Dallas Morning News had a feature on it within the last week or two--citing the remarkable lack of qualification among those who hold themselves out to be "experts," but are actually little more than con artists attempting to convince the naive that they, the naive, can't do the most basic of things themselves.

[quote=anonymous]

anabuhabkuss,

I didn't quite understand your last post.  Can I assume that you meant prospect and not client.  Since you had to tell the person that you were young, I will also assume that this was simply a phone call and not an in person meeting.  Additionally, since your response to his question didn't mention a someone who referred you to him, I will assume that this was a cold call.  Therefore, even if you were old and a CFP, the odds are still that you would not have secured the appointment. 

A referral from a well respected person will get you in all of the time.   A designation (of any type) and $2 will get you a cup of coffee.[/quote]

you wasted a lot of freaking time assuming anonymous.

no, he has been a client of the group I work with for 6 years who's trying to weasel his way out of fees he let accumulate for the last 3 quaters so he can get some stock certificates sent out to his mother. He thought having an attitude adjustment for the worse would get him what he wanted without having to get off his couch.

Streetmaven, There's a huge issue if I'm getting or not getting business based upon my business card.  I know CFP's who don't have the designation on their card.

Don't you think that if someone wanted to know whether I am a CFP, they would ask?  I get asked more often if I am a CPA than whether I am a CFP.   In general, the public doesn't know the difference between CFP and some garbage designation that came out last week.  I'm not disdainful of it.  As I have mentioned, I will most likely sit next year.  I just don't see any indication as of right now, that my lost income from spending time studying for the exam, will be made up by additional revenue from having the letters.

anabuhabkuss, ok, what was the meaning of your post?

[quote=anonymous]

  I know CFP's who don't have the designation on their card. [/quote]

Yeah, right....

[quote=anonymous]

 As I have mentioned, I will most likely sit next year.  I just don't see any indication as of right now, that my lost income from spending time studying for the exam, will be made up by additional revenue from having the letters. [/quote]

I forgot, this is the guy that prospects 24/7 and therefore there aren't any hours during which study time doesn't displace making money. Yeah, that's the ticket. OTOH, isn't this the same guy who said he was studying for an insurance designation?

I wonder how studying for one costs prospecting time and studying for the other doesn't....

Mike, you need to work on your reading comprehension.  I work almost no evenings.  I'm not against getting the CFP.  I'm not against getting CLU/ChFC.   The classwork is identical except that the CLU/ChFC has more classes.  The knowledge is great to have.  I just don't think that the designations necessarily mean more business.  By all means, if you have the time to get them, go ahead and get them.   

I'm the guy who realizes that most people who get into this business fail.  I believe that they fail because they don't get in front of enough people.  Let's assume that it takes 500 hours of time to pass the CFP exam and someone can walk into 5000 businesses in this same time.  I contend that the person who walks into the 5000 businesses has a much better chance at surviving in this business.

Survive and then get designations to your heart's content.  A new guy needs to spend his time getting in front of clients.  This leaves evenings and weekends to get work done.  Time spent studying reduces a new guy's chance of success except for things that will help them make money today.    

So many new guys fail out of our business because they spend too much time studying and not enough time prospecting.  I've never met someone who didn't succeed because they spent too much time prospecting.  Yes, they have to study enough to pass the necessary exams.

[quote=anonymous] <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Mike, you need to work on your reading comprehension.  I work almost no evenings.  [/quote]

Hmmm, but studying for the CFP would cut into your income because it would take time from prospecting...you can't study in the evenings?

[quote=anonymous]I'm not against getting the CFP.  [/quote]

It's just an accident that your every comment on it is an attempt to diminish its value...

[quote=anonymous]I'm not against getting CLU/ChFC. [/quote]

I would hope not, since you've told us they you're studying for it. However, it's still a question as to how studying for the insurance designation doesn't take income away from you but studying for the CFP would...

 [quote=anonymous] The classwork is identical except that the CLU/ChFC has more classes.  [/quote]

Well, there is that 10 hour, two day capstone exam (with the roughly 50% pass rate) that the CFP has and the insurance designation doesn't. Kind’a makes you wonder about the real value of those classes if the end effect of the process is a 50% failure rate. Perhaps it means you could sleep walk though the classes…

[quote=anonymous]  I just don't think that the designations necessarily mean more business. [/quote]

I don't recall anyone making that claim. Could you tell us who that was?

 [quote=anonymous] Let's assume that it takes 500 hours of time to pass the CFP exam and someone can walk into 5000 businesses in this same time.  [/quote]

Let's assume that people are bright enough to study when they can't be prospecting...

[quote=anonymous]I contend that the person who walks into the 5000 businesses has a much better chance at surviving in this business. [/quote]

I content you've created a strawman argument...

 [quote=anonymous] A new guy needs to spend his time getting in front of clients.  This leaves evenings and weekends to get work done.  Time spent studying reduces a new guy's chance of success except for things that will help them make money today.     [/quote]

Again, no one arguing in favor of the strawman that you've created, that being that you should study when you COULD be prospecting or doing anything else that can pay you now.

BTW, it's interesting how you go back and forth between this line of strawman argument and the one where you claim clients don't even care about the designation...

Mike, studying for the CFP would cut into my income simply because I'm not willing to study in the evenings.  I don't work evenings because I choose to spend that time with my family.  Study time does effect my income regardless of what I am studying. 

I understand that you think that I'm making a strawman argument.  I agree that if someone has time to study, it is a good thing.  I'm in favor of the CFP for two reasons.  1)The knowledge is good.  2)Clients might care about it in the future.  I just don't think that enough clients care now to make it an endeavor more important than prospecting.

Regardless, I don't think that a new guy has time to study without seriously hurting his chance to succeed.  If someone wants to maximize their chance of succeeding, they must do nothing but see people and fight to see them during the day.  This means that all work must be done in the evenings.  This simply doesn't leave time for studying.  

Survive first.  Study 2nd.

As for the CFP exam being difficult, it is.  So what?  When you do planning for your clients, you get to do it open book and use experts to help.  Your clients want you to be able to get all of the answers.  They don't expect you to know all of the answers.

[quote=anonymous]

Streetmaven, There's a huge issue if I'm getting or not getting business based upon my business card.  I know CFP's who don't have the designation on their card.

Don't you think that if someone wanted to know whether I am a CFP, they would ask?  I get asked more often if I am a CPA than whether I am a CFP.   In general, the public doesn't know the difference between CFP and some garbage designation that came out last week.  I'm not disdainful of it.  As I have mentioned, I will most likely sit next year.  I just don't see any indication as of right now, that my lost income from spending time studying for the exam, will be made up by additional revenue from having the letters.

anabuhabkuss, ok, what was the meaning of your post?

[/quote]

You can't just "sit" for the exam unless you are a CPA or an Attorney.  Otherwise you need to complete a qualified course that consists of 5 different modules.  I did the course on a home study basis and it took 6 months (approx) for each module.    After this testing in November, you can't get the designation unless you have a BA. You can still sit for the exam and pass it, but must have a BA to get the magic C. F. P.

I don't have a BA because I quit college in my senior year over 20 years ago for personal reasons.  I could go back and get my degree in MesoAmerican Anthropology or Ceramics, both really helpful disciplines for our business (not hardly), but I don't want to.  So instead, I am studying my ass off to pass the test in November.    Even if I do end up having to go back to college and throw some pots and make glazes (which actually could be fun) the studying and reviewing has been beneficial to my being a being a better, smarter advisor.  

As time goes on and more and more Baby Boomers and THIER children retire or inherit, you will find that you will not be getting the cream of the crop of clients without a CFP designation and will instead be getting the leftovers. 

Your call.

[quote=babbling looney]

I don't have a BA because I quit college in my senior year over 20 years ago for personal reasons.  I could go back and get my degree in MesoAmerican Anthropology or Ceramics, both really helpful disciplines for our business (not hardly), but I don't want to.  So instead, I am studying my ass off to pass the test in November.    Even if I do end up having to go back to college and throw some pots and make glazes (which actually could be fun) the studying and reviewing has been beneficial to my being a being a better, smarter advisor.  

As time goes on and more and more Baby Boomers and THIER children retire or inherit, you will find that you will not be getting the cream of the crop of clients without a CFP designation and will instead be getting the leftovers. 

Your call.

[/quote]

What will happen if you don't pass in November?  Will you be denied the right to retest due to your lack of a degree?

If you were to go back why would you seek a degree in Pottery, or whatever, instead of one in a relevant area?

[quote=Knows Wall St.]

[quote=babbling looney]

I don't have a BA because I quit college in my senior year over 20 years ago for personal reasons.  I could go back and get my degree in MesoAmerican Anthropology or Ceramics, both really helpful disciplines for our business (not hardly), but I don't want to.  So instead, I am studying my ass off to pass the test in November.    Even if I do end up having to go back to college and throw some pots and make glazes (which actually could be fun) the studying and reviewing has been beneficial to my being a being a better, smarter advisor.  

As time goes on and more and more Baby Boomers and THIER children retire or inherit, you will find that you will not be getting the cream of the crop of clients without a CFP designation and will instead be getting the leftovers. 

Your call.

[/quote]

What will happen if you don't pass in November?  Will you be denied the right to retest due to your lack of a degree?

If you were to go back why would you seek a degree in Pottery, or whatever, instead of one in a relevant area?

[/quote]

You can re-test and pass. You just can't get the designation until you have a degree.  I imagine there is a time frame in which to get a degree.....or maybe not.  They probably haven't though that far ahead.

I plan to pass.

Why the Hell should I do anything like starting all over for a different BA when all I have to do is about 18 units to complete my Art/ceramics concentration degree?  If the CFP Board doesn't care what my degree is in, and they don't, then I don't either.  

As I have stated before, I think it's a ridiculous requirement UNLESS the degree is in something relevant.  Since I have been in the business for over 15 years, passed all the CFP courses over a 2 1/2 year time frame and they don't want to take my experience as any sort of a qualifier......screw-em.    If I don't pass, maybe I should get a degree in Computer Game Design.  That would be fun as well, and makes about as much sense as a degree in Art or French Renaissance Literature qualifies a person for the CFP.

babbling looney, I’ll be able to sit next year because I’ll have my CLU/ChFC.  I agree that the fact that you would have to go get your degree is a meaningless requirement for someone with your experience.

[quote=anonymous]babbling looney, I'll be able to sit next year because I'll have my CLU/ChFC.  I agree that the fact that you would have to go get your degree is a meaningless requirement for someone with your experience.[/quote]

It's all about having standards.  It's great that Wall Street is finally getting standards.

With luck within a generation it will be impossible to enter the business without a degree--as it should have been all along.

[quote=Knows Wall St.]

[quote=anonymous]babbling looney, I'll be able to sit next year because I'll have my CLU/ChFC.  I agree that the fact that you would have to go get your degree is a meaningless requirement for someone with your experience.[/quote]

I stand corrected on that.  Thanks.

It's all about having standards.  It's great that Wall Street is finally getting standards.

With luck within a generation it will be impossible to enter the business without a degree--as it should have been all along.

[/quote]

So, a degree in Wardrobe Design, or Women's Studies or Film History or Ceramics is an acceptable standard for being a stock broker?  I hardly think so.   If the standard is to be a meaningful and true standard then make the hurdle to entering the business something logical.  If not then, there is no purpose.

I agree, Babs...it's ridiculous to not require a relevant bachelor's degree.  I like the prerequisite of a four-year degree (we can only hope that this might actually shut Dirk up), but it should at least be in something business related.

...and BTW, I don't think you'll have any problems with the November test...you don't strike me as someone who scored 70% on her series 7 exam...on the 3rd attempt...

[quote=Indyone]

I agree, Babs...it's ridiculous to not require a relevant bachelor's degree.  I like the prerequisite of a four-year degree (we can only hope that this might actually shut Dirk up), but it should at least be in something business related.

...and BTW, I don't think you'll have any problems with the November test...you don't strike me as someone who scored 70% on her series 7 exam...on the 3rd attempt...

[/quote]

Thanks....91% on the first try BTW. 

[quote=babbling looney]

So, a degree in Wardrobe Design, or Women's Studies or Film History or Ceramics is an acceptable standard for being a stock broker?  I hardly think so.   If the standard is to be a meaningful and true standard then make the hurdle to entering the business something logical.  If not then, there is no purpose.

[/quote]

Ideally a degree in something relevant would be required, but a degree in anything is better than a degree in nothing.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

How can you all argue for pages with nothing to show for it?