Edward Jones Payouts

Varies SIGNIFICANTLY. 

Probably of more importance is how many NEW AUM per year. 

However somewhere around 25 million is probably the avg that you are looking for to bring home 100k (before taxes).

Fish,

     As Gad said, it could vary greatly.  If that 50 million is in A-share Mutual Funds, that will generate a mere $50K annual income at Jones. I do know an ex-Jonsers who had just $40 million but it was a large stock book and he was doing $400 K gross which works out to be $152000 pre-bonus annually.  So each book composition will determine what the income level is.  Bottomline to you is that the payout works out to be 38% of new business generated plus any residual income you might have in your book, and since you are new, that would probably be $0.00!!

38% of what???

38% of the incentive given to Jones for the fund?

What is a typical kickback?  2%?

Kickbacks, incentives...

Fish, these are terms that teamsters are more used to working with. We professionals in the industry do not get "Kickbacks" and it is extremely insulting to hear our compensations referred to as such.

Ask yourself this question... If the big boys aren't hiring right now, why do you suupose that is?

What if it's because they see a very tough market ahead where the chances of staying in this business is slim and they don't want to risk their capital right now? Then what are you saying? That you know better than they do?

Now, it could be that the BOMs are keeping their offices open on the chance that they might recruit in somebody from the other offices, but Wachovia's "Blow off to the upside" in that arena seems to have quieted the markets there for now (We all hope that WS isn't making the mistake that Pru made before the last bear market!).

Might also be that they were put off by your manner in particular (asking about kickbacks and incentive programs etc) You might want to try to wait this period out and give it a better run (after you've smoothed off your own edges a bit) half way through the next recession. BOMs will be more willing and have more office space available to take a risk on timing your entrance right at the midway point. Plus, Don't Settle! If you truely think that Merrill is the best place to be then why would you put yourself through the wringer at Jones? (Or anyplace else for that matter.) It doesn't say much for you or your self respect that you see yourself as worth so little that you'd sell out to the first buyer that made an offer. 

38% of GDC. I know the local rep really well.  She says she gets 40% of yearly GDC, and then Jones gives her support money for her office, corporate benefits, etc, so she figures it ends up being around 50% when all is said and done..........

She has a $40 million book and does $125,000 a year in GDC, so a lot of 12B-1s............

I had roughly 28 million when I left Jones. I think my income my last full year in 2005 was just north of 100K, however, I brought in a lot of new business. One of the many ways Jones differs from the wires is that at the wires its all about AUM (managed money) vs. at Jones its all about NEW Aum that will drive your income (at least when I was there)

Best of luck to you!

Thank you for addressing the question with regards to the AUM.

I am extremely nervous about the possible change in employment and from what I have gathered on this site it can be a stuggle.  I wish I had made this move years ago.  I have three kids all under the age of 7 and live in California which is not cheap.  Providing for my family is #1 so I do not really care which firm I work for as long as I can be productive.

My biggest hurdle will be doing the constant sales.  I tend to focus much on performance and research of investment vehicles.  I have done well for myself, but that has been limited to just two years of personal investing.

I do appreciate the forum and I do want to thank those that take the time to help those that need it.

Fish,

Three kids and you're going to jump into a business with a 90% failure rate? Because providing for your family is number 1?

Why don't you just open a restaurant? Especially if you don't know how to cook.

have you ever watched the movie Glengarry Glenn Ross? Do you think that hard work is all it takes to be a "Closer"? Shelly worked HARD and knew every trick in the book and did NOT take no for an answer and yet he was on the balls of his ass because sometimes that's the way sales is. You cannot push a string!

Sometimes we do things in this life that close doors to us. We party instead of studying in college. We get mad at the coach and quit the football team. We have too many drinks at the Christmas party. We have three kids before we have a career. Lots of things are done today that alter who and what we can become as a result.

That's where you are. I don't want to be the wet blanket but I don't think this is a wise move for you. Not at this time anyway.

There are lots of other opportunities in this world, go be a reverse mortgage salesman (there is an industry that is going to grow, and what they are allowed to rape these people for is amazing!) for example. This industry has come through a bull market and is more likely to see a down turn now than a continued uptrend. We see it at every top, when people want to jump in and make some of that easy money that brokers make. It's like real estate speculators last year (we actually had a thread not long ago about how you can never lose in real estate). That's what you are, a late jumper, and Jones is willing to give you a shot because if you fail then they'll plug the next guy into your slot and then the next guy and the next guy, each adding to the dead AUM in the branch.

You want help, here's help, Do Something Else!

Fish, it sort of sounds like you are doing this for the money.  If that is the case, your situation may not be ideal.  You can do it for the money if you are 23 and have no expenses.  With 3 young kids, living in CA, you might be in  for a rude awakening.  And you might spend your last nickel doing it.  If you can support your family on savings for 3 years, by all means jump in.  But if you have 3-6 months saved up, I would not risk my family on this bender.

You have to REALLY want to do this.  You have to REALLY want to sell, talk to people, and not spend time "analyzing" stocks, asset allocations, performance, etc.  You will educate yourself right out of business.

I do not know how to respond to that post.

There are a couple of things I can not shake:

1.  I think I have the proper skill set to excel in this business.  I actually feel that coming in during a possible flat market would be great.  It would weed out the average and I think I will be better than that. 

2.  I do not know if it matters when I get in.  I am looking at this as a career.  If I struggle it will be now or later, I do not think the state of the market will make a huge difference.

I am trying to appreciate the above response.  I can not figure out if it is an effort to be helpful or just rude.  I will assume that you are trying to be helpful and I will ignore the attitude.

The above was not a response to broker24.  It was to the previous post.

Fish,

Do you have sales experience?  Can you handle rejection? Can you live off $40k for year 1 and 2, and then possibly less in y3 and 4?

I know that I’m a broken record, but if one needs to make money in the 1st year, a good insurance agency is the way to go. 

" I think I have the proper skill set to excel in this business.  I actually feel that coming in during a possible flat market would be great.  It would weed out the average and I think I will be better than that.  "

You ask about "Kickbacks" Then you say that you have the skill set to excel. A flat market? How about a down market? And you're sure that this would weed out the people who have been doiing this for years so that you can shine as someone better than that.

And you have the ballz to "Ignore the attitude"!?

"I do not know if it matters when I get in.  I am looking at this as a career.  If I struggle it will be now or later, I do not think the state of the market will make a huge difference."

Which proves that point number one is a fabrication of a deluded mind! How can it not matter when you get in? How can it not be easier during a market when things are going up than when they're going down? I've sold in up markets and I've sold in down markets, I'll tell you, it's easier in up markets!

An advisor's job is to advise, and I'm advising you that this is not the right time and Jones is not the right place (because it's not the right time). Go do something else for a while until we've gone through a bear, then you'll want to look at the career (my guess, however is that you won't because then you'll have seen your own portfolio go down and you'll figure that there is no way to make money in the stock market. How do I know this? Because I've been in this business for over 20 years and i know how investors feel at different points in the cycle.

It's a very common mistake of people to think, once they've made some good investments, that this job is a piece of cake.

Yes it's rude of me to lay a dump on top of your birthday cake right after you made a wish. Yes it's rude. I'm sorry, I'm being rude, but I still think you'll be better off not eating that cake! 

As was said before, if you have 3 YEARS of living expenses saved up, then you may want to look into this. If you do NOT have that kind of money saved, then do NOT do this.  Also, do NOT listen to the "here's what I did in production my second year..." crap from any Jones people.  My interviewer told me he made $200,000 his fourth year in the business. I realize now that he must have meant gross, but he portrayed it as net.

Given your situation I would recommend NOT taking the Jones job. Take it from someone who has taken that job (with a newborn baby, and a spouse who did not work).

Did the person you met with explain their incentives to sell you on joining? 

[quote=Fish]

I am in what you might call "stage 3" of the interview process with Jones.  This is the only branch that is hiring in my area.  Morgan Stanley, Merrill, and AG Edwards are not currently looking for new FA so I guess I am stuck with EJ(but that might not be bad).

A couple of weeks ago I spoke with an EJ advisor and she stated she had $50mil AUM.  How much yearly income is usually generated from AUM with Jones? 

How much AUM would you need to bring in $100,000 a year?

Fish, this board is a microcosm of the rejection and ridicule you will face roughly 50 times per day (if you are good) in this business. 

Fish,

1st to answer your question:  The payout varies slightly based on what you are selling, but I usually averaged 37-38%.  The 40% number they will give you is accurate for most things, but stock trades and a few other things are usually lower, which lowers the % a bit.  Also, they take 1% off of the top for national marketing, so even if you only sold products with a 40% payout you would get 39%.  And you have probably $1,000/month expenses on top of that, which you pay out of your own pocket.  And after the health insurance subsidy goes away and you start paying for 100% of your health insurance, you will understand why so many people are clamoring for socialized medicine.  So really you are netting quite a bit lower than the 40% figure they quote.

2nd, Whomit may not be the most tactful poster, and I may quibble with a few points, but for the most part he is correct and is giving you good advice.  I had a similar family situation when I started, but it was at the beginning of a bull market.  I also had substantial other money to fund my hobby for a few years until I started making money.  If I had to feed my family on my paycheck for the 1st 3 years I would have been forced to quit and take a job paying more $$.

I hate to be negative, because this can be a very emotionally and financially rewarding career.  However, unless you have either substantial savings you are willing to part with or a spouse with a good job, you should not even consider this with little kids at home relying on you to provide for them.  Even if you do, I would think twice.  Most people fail, and if you blow through $100,000 savings first, that will be very difficult to regain.  I know several people who have moved on to other careers who would have far better off financially had they never heard of Edward Jones.

I don't think I answered the right question above, sorry.  

When you are in a fast growing mode, maybe 10-25 million, you will probably gross 1% of your AUM, not from management fees, but primarily in new business generated from new clients and adding investments for existing clients.  Earlier on you should have a higher %, from what I saw the % is lower as your AUM rises.

15 million in AUM translates to about $150,000 gross.  38% of that is $47,000.  After expenses, you will be making about $30-40,000.  I'm going from memory here, but that's probably where most people 2-3 years out are.  You have to be at the top of the heap at EDJ to be making $100,000 in your first 5 years.  It happens, but rarely without assistance.

[quote=EDJ4now]

Fish,

1st to answer your question:  The payout varies slightly based on what you are selling, but I usually averaged 37-38%.  The 40% number they will give you is accurate for most things, but stock trades and a few other things are usually lower, which lowers the % a bit.  Also, they take 1% off of the top for national marketing, so even if you only sold products with a 40% payout you would get 39%.  And you have probably $1,000/month expenses on top of that, which you pay out of your own pocket.  And after the health insurance subsidy goes away and you start paying for 100% of your health insurance, you will understand why so many people are clamoring for socialized medicine.  So really you are netting quite a bit lower than the 40% figure they quote.

Just to clarify - the 1% National Sales contribution is capped at $250/month regardless of production.  Also, the medical subsidy is now extended out to 42 months, as are the added milestone bonuses ($7,000 net every 7 months).

2nd, Whomit may not be the most tactful poster, and I may quibble with a few points, but for the most part he is correct and is giving you good advice.  I had a similar family situation when I started, but it was at the beginning of a bull market.  I also had substantial other money to fund my hobby for a few years until I started making money.  If I had to feed my family on my paycheck for the 1st 3 years I would have been forced to quit and take a job paying more $$.

I hate to be negative, because this can be a very emotionally and financially rewarding career.  However, unless you have either substantial savings you are willing to part with or a spouse with a good job, you should not even consider this with little kids at home relying on you to provide for them.  Even if you do, I would think twice.  Most people fail, and if you blow through $100,000 savings first, that will be very difficult to regain.  I know several people who have moved on to other careers who would have far better off financially had they never heard of Edward Jones.

I think this is probably the case anywhere you start from "scratch".

[/quote]

The one thing I will say about starting out with Jones, that has changed over the past few years; if you do "well" (meaning meeting/exceeding expectations, which is not a stretch), the milestone bonuses, new account bonuses, 1st year salary, and medical subsidy (on top of commissions) should keep you in the game long enough to survive and make it.  To make these kickers, you really don't have to produce that much.  If you can't hit these numbers, you probably would not be cut out for ANY firm in this industry.  Getting clients is getting clients, regardless of where you are - it takes the same set of skills.

Also, the firm is making a huge effort to avoid "scratch" starts, so many new advisors are getting some assets to start (though not everyone).

Nonetheless, it is very difficult to make it in this business.  I have seen a LOT of people come and go in this industry, and I have not been around that long.  For most, it's because they just didn't realize what it would take to make it, or didn't realize it was all about sales (despite being told repeatedly).

First I will start by saying that I currently work for Edward Jones and am one of the few left who were among the first to go on the new pay scale.  I have been there through everyone of the changes.  I have been very fortunate so far, as business has been great (always being above 100% and segment 3, 60k or more in production over a 4 month period, in 13 months).  I am very familiar with the different pay scales (old vs new) as I was working for Jones in a different role before I ever became an advisor (not a BOA by the way).  I have also had mulitple conversations with GP's including both of the one's incharge of new ir/fa retention/recruitment and the p&l's.  After reading Broker's comment there definitely needs to be some clarification. 

Just to clarify - the 1% National Sales contribution is capped at $250/month regardless of production. 

The 1% National Sales deduction from your NET commissions is capped at $250/month but lets do some quick math. 

$250/1% = $25000 Net Commissions for one month so . . .

$25000/40% (which I know the max you can get is 38.6% but for easy math) = $62500 in Gross Commissions for one month so . . .

If you are consistently grossing $62500 and only coming home with approx. 25k before taxes what is another $250 that Jones takes from you.  I do understand you are probably getting profitability bonus of pretty good amounts but does it out way what an Indy guy would end up with . . . I don't know? never been indy before.  Realistically speaking if you are under 10 years with Jones you are not consistently grossing 62500 so go ahead and count on an additional 1% being taken out of your net commissions. 

Also, the medical subsidy is now extended out to 42 months, as are the added milestone bonuses ($7,000 net every 7 months).

The one thing I will say about starting out with Jones, that has changed over the past few years; if you do "well" (meaning meeting/exceeding expectations, which is not a stretch), the milestone bonuses, new account bonuses, 1st year salary, and medical subsidy (on top of commissions) should keep you in the game long enough to survive and make it.  To make these kickers, you really don't have to produce that much.  If you can't hit these numbers, you probably would not be cut out for ANY firm in this industry.  Getting clients is getting clients, regardless of where you are - it takes the same set of skills.

The milestone bonuses he is referring to work there way up to $7000.  They start at $1000 with you reaching your can sell date.  Between week 23-25 (I know the EJ material reads week 17 but it does not work out that way) or so you can earn a $4000 bonus.  At month selling 9 it is 5k and in month 15, 22, 29, and 36 it is 7k.  On paper and at first read this sounds great but in practice, not so much.  You must be exceeding expectations not meeting/exceeding (99% will get you a bonus check of $0).  Also you qualify for them one month, earn them the next month, then are paid for them the following month.  Let me explain, you begin selling Jan. 1 so Oct. 1 you have been selling for 9 months.  At Jones your perfomance screen would not indicate you have been selling for 9 months until the end of the Oct. selling month or the beginning of Nov.  You would qualify for your bonus in Oct., earn it in Nov. (if your performance is 100% or better in the month of Nov.) and be paid your bonus in Dec.  For people raising families it becomes very frustrating when you think you are getting a bonus and then you find out you are not paid on it until next month.  Fortunately I have hit everyone so far however my classmates from training have not.  The latest number I heard from IRD/FARD, now I guess, with reguards to the milestone bonuses was that about 1 in 3 are recieving them.

The new account bonuses I won't go into them as much detail for sake of time but just know that most people NEVER get them.  They have put so many rules, qualifiers, or fine print in reguards to these just don't count them for the sake of your income.  If you get them, more power to you, but I only know one person who has gotten it more than once and most have not even gotten it once.  

The salary depends on where you are living.  They have broken the states down into a grid and based upon where you are is how much you get paid.  The important thing to note here is that every four months your salary decreases and will go to $0 after one year not two like the wirehouses.  My salary was $21800 in case you were wondering.

Your insurance is still high even though they cover a portion of the cost for your first 42 months.  

With all that said I don't want to sound negative because Edward Jones does do some positive things for their new advisors.  First Broker was right in saying that they are making a very strong attempt to make sure there are as few people that start from scratch as possible which means you are more than likely going to get some assets given to you for FREE . . . no sweat equity!!!(This is a very good thing!!! Most places won't give you assets unless you have atleast proven yourself!)  They aslo give you money in the form of $2k to spend on supplies and marketing materials before you even have sold anything!!  Keeps you from having to front even more of your savings.  There are positives and negatives to every place you work, just like erything in life.  I just want to make sure that if someone is joining a firm that they fully understand what they are getting into and aren't just hearing things in a way that makes everything sound like gravy, down the road to be frustrated by disappointment and discouragement.

very well stated blogme.  I was at Jones from 3/06 until 6/07 and you summarized nicely.  new accounts bonuses were far and away the closest thing to impossible to attain.  hated opening 15 accounts and getting $0 bonus from it.  the milestone bonuses are definitely reachable.

And right before I left the said (at a regional meeting) that their goal was for there to be NO MORE new/new starting out with 0 assets and working out of their home-is this true?

Ironhorse, why did you only last 1 1/4 years with Jones?

I understand these new FA incentives also apply to transfer brokers.  I know a lady who brought over a $30 million book into an existing office and is hitting all her milestones, new account bonuses, and is qualifying for every trip.  Very Nice!

[quote=theironhorse]very well stated blogme.  I was at Jones from 3/06 until 6/07 and you summarized nicely.  new accounts bonuses were far and away the closest thing to impossible to attain.  hated opening 15 accounts and getting $0 bonus from it.  the milestone bonuses are definitely reachable.

And right before I left the said (at a regional meeting) that their goal was for there to be NO MORE new/new starting out with 0 assets and working out of their home-is this true?
[/quote]

And right before I left the said (at a regional meeting) that their goal was for there to be NO MORE new/new starting out with 0 assets and working out of their home-is this true?

Yes this is true.  They are giving incentives to FA's even if they are just letting someone work out of there office.  Obvisiously the incentives increase if assets are included.

Some great info on the posts.  Really appreciate it.

Right now I am in a struggling mortgage practice...getting harder every day. 

Unfortunately, I will not be able to start with a lot of $$$.  I have my house on the market and will hopefully rent for at least two years.  In addition I will have no debt so monthly expenses will be less. 

It seems Jones will let me work a little on the side, so I am hoping to sub teach 2 days a week for a little extra cash.

It seems that 15 mil should be my 1st year goal.  That will at least generate some income with a good base to start. 

For the record, I do believe that I will make $$$ for my clients in any market unless I am handtied by Jones.  I do not think that I am better than anyone but I do feel that I can be highly structured and systematic with the investing that will perform in all markets.

Fish,

What makes you think that Jones will let you sub-teach during the school week when you should have your butt in the office working?  You are their employee and theywill expect you to be working for them.  They don't care if you're not making enough money to live on, just work harder.  If you want to make more money, just increase your production.  If you want to eat this month just  make an additional 10 contacts per day (on top of the 25-35 they aleady want you to make).  Sounds to me like you're throwing yourself into a sinking boat.  If you believe you'll have to sub-teach to make it, you've already lost.

All of this is to be done in-between the segment one meetings you'll have to attend and the call sessions and the mentoring sessions and the "The RL wants to impress you with how much money you can make" meetings.  Then there are the broadcasts you'll have to watch and the contact logs you'll have to fill out, and the calls from the home office asking "WHat the heck are you doing?"  So you see, Fish-out-of-water, they'll have enough to keep you busy and you won't have time to work part-time to make any extra money (cause you sure won't be making it at Jones).  You, the newby will be watched and scrutinized and will not be allowed to sub at your local elementary school.

Well yes, it sounds like you are a wonderful planner. I’m sure your tale

will inspire thousands to hand over their assets for you to manage…geez.



-----------------------



Some great info on the posts. Really appreciate it.



Right now I am in a struggling mortgage practice…getting harder every

day.



Unfortunately, I will not be able to start with a lot of $$$. I have my

house on the market and will hopefully rent for at least two years. In

addition I will have no debt so monthly expenses will be less.



It seems Jones will let me work a little on the side, so I am hoping to sub

teach 2 days a week for a little extra cash.



It seems that 15 mil should be my 1st year goal. That will at least

generate some income with a good base to start.



For the record, I do believe that I will make $$$ for my clients in any

market unless I am handtied by Jones. I do not think that I am better

than anyone but I do feel that I can be highly structured and systematic

with the investing that will perform in all markets.

[quote=Fish]

It seems Jones will let me work a little on the side, so I am hoping to sub teach 2 days a week for a little extra cash.

It seems that 15 mil should be my 1st year goal.  That will at least generate some income with a good base to start. 

[/quote]

Fish, you have very unrealistic expectations.  First, Jones will NOT let you do anything on the side.  If you try to sneak it in and they find out, you will be fired and could lose your license because you are required to disclose that info to the NASD.

Second, even working full time, working your ass off, unless you have a few rich uncles, you will have nowhere near $15,000,000 in your first year at Jones, probably not your 1st 2 years.  I seriously doubt 1% of new hires at EDJ have that after the first year, unless they are working in their Dad's office.

Do your kids a favor and take your head out of the clouds before you do serious harm to your family financially.

[quote=Fish]

Some great info on the posts.  Really appreciate it.

Right now I am in a struggling mortgage practice...getting harder every day. 

Unfortunately, I will not be able to start with a lot of $$$.  I have my house on the market and will hopefully rent for at least two years.  In addition I will have no debt so monthly expenses will be less. 

It seems Jones will let me work a little on the side, so I am hoping to sub teach 2 days a week for a little extra cash.

It seems that 15 mil should be my 1st year goal.  That will at least generate some income with a good base to start. 

For the record, I do believe that I will make $$$ for my clients in any market unless I am handtied by Jones.  I do not think that I am better than anyone but I do feel that I can be highly structured and systematic with the investing that will perform in all markets.

[/quote]

Fish, you been smokin' somethin'.

No I am clean.

I left Jones (after moving from an insurance co w/a b/d) because I went independent.  Jones is a good place to start, they focus all FA energy on the most important thing(s), contacts.  But in my situation I made a mistake going there in the 1st place.  I had 4-5 years of investment/insurance selling experience, and respected the opinion of 2-3 people who steered me to Jones.  I wanted to see the investment field from an investment company per se instead of an insurance company.  Quickly discovered it was not for me.

Fish, given your situation, do NOT take the Jones job.

I'm not saying this because I have anything against Jones in particular, but in the first four or five months alone, even if you do knock the cover off of the ball, you will be making poverty level wages (while you study, and the first few months of production).

And forget teaching part time, I don't see how Jones would go for that unless you were running a profitable office (which is basically impossible in the first couple of years).

OK.  I have gotten some feedback and do appreciate it much.  I have heard a lot about how I should not go into the business.  What other options are there?  Insurance??  Getting on with an Indy Firm???Eventually, I want to get involved in asset management but I could wait.

This is where I am at.  I currently own and operate a mortgage lending business which at this time is tough.  Leads are OK but guidelines are changing so fast I am losing programs left and right.  I do think that the mortgage market is in an over-correction state and will normalize in a couple of months.  I currently have an insurance license and I have a local company that wants me to come in and handle life and annuity sales. 

I know I could make double/triple the money combining the mortgage and insurance, but I feel the long term goal would be financial planning and a more residual income. 

If I need to take a hit financially it makes more sense to me to do it now rather than later.

Why throw away what you currently have to start from zero? 

Chances are that the local insurance company works with an independent broker dealer right now to offer investments or at least VAs.  If not, it would be easy to add.  Get in with them selling insurance, keep your mortgage business, and then work with them to get your securities license.  You can do it all as an independent without starting over.

[quote=Fish]

OK.  I have gotten some feedback and do appreciate it much.  I have heard a lot about how I should not go into the business.  What other options are there?  Insurance??  Getting on with an Indy Firm???Eventually, I want to get involved in asset management but I could wait.

This is where I am at.  I currently own and operate a mortgage lending business which at this time is tough.  Leads are OK but guidelines are changing so fast I am losing programs left and right.  I do think that the mortgage market is in an over-correction state and will normalize in a couple of months.  I currently have an insurance license and I have a local company that wants me to come in and handle life and annuity sales. 

I know I could make double/triple the money combining the mortgage and insurance, but I feel the long term goal would be financial planning and a more residual income. 

If I need to take a hit financially it makes more sense to me to do it now rather than later.

[/quote]

Fish, I would stick with what you are doing and try to get on with an insurance firm or independant shop.  Maybe you could partner on the insurance and mortgage side with an indy office.  I don't know.  But I would not leave what you are doing to go to Jones.  You would get frustrated, as it sounds like you are anxious to make money quickly and make a move.  You would probably stay 6 months, then leave when the income you need doesn't materialize.

Bump…


What was the outcome to this? Interesting that he was looking to join at the end of 2007. Not knowing the next couple years would be rough.


I hope it all worked out!