Choosing an EJ location
I’m at the point in the EJ application where I am about to start doorknocking for 20 surveys. They are asking me for the location I’d like to operate in.
I presently live in PA, near the NJ border. I'm thinking that I'd like to operate in the central NJ region since it will have a larger household income than PA. It's about a 55 minute drive to get there, though. I don't mind the drive, but is the time lost commuting worth the higher income area? My zip code has a median household income of $55,500. The area I have staked out in NJ has a median household income of $79,600. Seems like a no brainer to me but I thought I'd ask a wizened hand or two before I committed to an area with EJ. And while I have your ear, to potential clients, does one firm have better name recognition and brand appeal than another? I am also interviewing with ML, which seems to would have more instant name recognition and cache with potential customers.How did you go from not in the industry to doorknocking for the application overnight?
That’s too far . You want to live close enough to your office so you can get to the office easily in the evenings on Saturday. You also want to live near your clients so you are part of the community and (ideally) can bump into your prospects at the store or the Little League field. That’s why I think small towns are best for the Jones model.
I would look for a growing, small town with a strong downtown where you can establish a presence. Better still, find such an area where you can get a Legacy or goodnight or take over a failing office. Starting from scratch out of your home is damn near impossible.I echo Buyandforget, get to know some established reps with books when you are studying and see if they would be willing to give you assets.
I didn't. I started the application process with Jones and ML before Thanksgiving. I wish it was that fast! Seems like it's taking forever.How did you go from not in the industry to doorknocking for the application overnight?
Did you apply at MS? Had a friend who started at Jones, hated it, and is now doing real well at MS, more of a cushion, in terms of salary, but higher goals,
[quote=buyandhold]That’s too far . You want to live close enough to your office so you can get to the office easily in the evenings on Saturday. You also want to live near your clients so you are part of the community and (ideally) can bump into your prospects at the store or the Little League field. That’s why I think small towns are best for the Jones model.
I would look for a growing, small town with a strong downtown where you can establish a presence. Better still, find such an area where you can get a Legacy or goodnight or take over a failing office. Starting from scratch out of your home is damn near impossible. [/quote] Are you saying that a new advisor operating out of his house from scratch (as the opportunity is pitched by EDJ) will have little chance of success? How do you find out about these "failing" offices or other such "leg ups"? Were most successful offices started by people who were given a leg up? And finally, since this is the rest of my working life I am talking about here, are you successful and how did you do it?[quote=buyandhold]That’s too far . You want to live close enough to your office so you can get to the office easily in the evenings on Saturday. You also want to live near your clients so you are part of the community and (ideally) can bump into your prospects at the store or the Little League field. That’s why I think small towns are best for the Jones model.
I would look for a growing, small town with a strong downtown where you can establish a presence. Better still, find such an area where you can get a Legacy or goodnight or take over a failing office. Starting from scratch out of your home is damn near impossible. [/quote] Are you saying that a new advisor operating out of his house from scratch has little or no chance of success? How does one find out about these "failing" offices or other "leg up" opportunities? And finally, are you successful and how did you do it?I would agree with what BH said. You want to be part of the community. You jsut can’t do that being an hour away. And don’t get too hung up on houshold income. You need to be more concerned with employment, a thriving business community, etc. Sometimes you can make out best in an industrial-type town where there are a lot of long-term employees with a few big employers. Some of my biggest rollovers (high 6 and low-7 figures) are from people that never made over 100K in their life (and some made FAR less than that). They are easier to target and their 401K balances are typically higher. Also look at demographics. If the demographic is young and high-paid, that’s not always best for someone just starting in the business. You want rollovers from 401K’s from the 50+ crowd. Those are most advisors’ bread-and-butter unless you have a lot of wealthy business owners in the area. You want to be doing little dinners/seminars at night, seeing people around town on weekends, etc. Make sure people are staying in the area and not moving away. Remember, you don’t need 5,000 clients, you only need a few hundred with decent money.
[quote=Squash1]
Did you apply at MS? Had a friend who started at Jones, hated it, and is now doing real well at MS, more of a cushion, in terms of salary, but higher goals,
[/quote] Will MS or ML higher a new advisor with no industry experience or licenses? I researched AGE and RJ and they seemed to want previous experience. My start date with EDJ is 2/2. I have two weeks to make sure I am making the right decision. I hate the career I am in (cars), but I have averaged a six figure income for 9 years. It drives my wife nuts because she thinks I should be happy since I am successful. Problem is, the auto industry is full of mooches and scammers. Not sure it will be different anywhere else, but at 44 I am willing to take the risk. Any input is appreciated.[quote=maddmatt][quote=buyandhold]That’s too far . You want to live close enough to your office so you can get to the office easily in the evenings on Saturday. You also want to live near your clients so you are part of the community and (ideally) can bump into your prospects at the store or the Little League field. That’s why I think small towns are best for the Jones model.
I would look for a growing, small town with a strong downtown where you can establish a presence. Better still, find such an area where you can get a Legacy or goodnight or take over a failing office. Starting from scratch out of your home is damn near impossible. [/quote] Are you saying that a new advisor operating out of his house from scratch (as the opportunity is pitched by EDJ) will have little chance of success? How do you find out about these "failing" offices or other such "leg ups"? Were most successful offices started by people who were given a leg up? And finally, since this is the rest of my working life I am talking about here, are you successful and how did you do it? [/quote] Yes. New/New's have little chance of success. Sorry. Yes, most successful offices were started by people given a leg up, because most FA's that actually MADE IT were given a leg up. For the REALLY successful people, it almost didn't matter, but most had some advantage (great network from past career, well connected, etc.). In most cases (not all) of a very successful FA (at every firm), there is a "story" behind it.[quote=Squash1]
Did you apply at MS? Had a friend who started at Jones, hated it, and is now doing real well at MS, more of a cushion, in terms of salary, but higher goals, [/quote]
Ya know, I've been considering them. I found the location of a MS office that I was interested in. Maybe I'll drop in this afternoon and introduce myself. God only knows ML is taking their time. I know they have a lot of things going on right now but I am at least getting some motion from EJ. Everytime I ask hte ML guys they say they're waiting for things to shake out corporate-wise and that they'll know soon.[quote=B24][quote=maddmatt][quote=buyandhold]That’s too far . You want to live close enough to your office so you can get to the office easily in the evenings on Saturday. You also want to live near your clients so you are part of the community and (ideally) can bump into your prospects at the store or the Little League field. That’s why I think small towns are best for the Jones model.
I would look for a growing, small town with a strong downtown where you can establish a presence. Better still, find such an area where you can get a Legacy or goodnight or take over a failing office. Starting from scratch out of your home is damn near impossible. [/quote] Are you saying that a new advisor operating out of his house from scratch (as the opportunity is pitched by EDJ) will have little chance of success? How do you find out about these "failing" offices or other such "leg ups"? Were most successful offices started by people who were given a leg up? And finally, since this is the rest of my working life I am talking about here, are you successful and how did you do it? [/quote] Yes. New/New's have little chance of success. Sorry. Yes, most successful offices were started by people given a leg up, because most FA's that actually MADE IT were given a leg up. For the REALLY successful people, it almost didn't matter, but most had some advantage (great network from past career, well connected, etc.). In most cases (not all) of a very successful FA (at every firm), there is a "story" behind it.[/quote] And you are with EDJ? Tell me, should I contact my recruiter and bring these issues up at this time? How does one go about asking for a "leg up"? Almost 10 years ago I started in the auto industry knowing nothing about it and no connections. I worked my rear end off and made it to Finance Director inside of 5 years. My understanding of this position with EDJ is that if I employ the same work ethic, with their training, I could expect similar success. What makes the FA position so much harder than other sales fields?You're leaving a six figure income to possibly starve or fail as an FA because you don't like the mooches around you? Knocking on doors in the rain seems like a better option? You're nuts. Your wife is right, listen to her.It drives my wife nuts because she thinks I should be happy since I am successful. Problem is, the auto industry is full of mooches and scammers.
[quote=B24]Yes. New/New’s have little chance of success. Sorry.
Yes, most successful offices were started by people given a leg up, because most FA's that actually MADE IT were given a leg up. [/quote] Then why would they even bother hiring / paying / training new guys without making sure they got a leg up or had millionaire friends and family? Ehh, yer bringing me down.The difference between selling cars and investments is in cars, the people come to you. You will have opportunities to sell from the people who walk in. Brokers have to create the demand that gets people to walk in. The hardest thing about being a new broker is getting a potential client to walk thru the door.
wow, I agree with everything the other guys have said so far, especially B24, pick your location based on a thriving community, I made the mistake early on and still regret it, “this town needs and enema.”
oh and yes, new new=foodstamps and fired inside 8 mo's. it sucks... hard, a lot of really good people and really good friends of mine, that would have made great brokers couldn't hack it new new... something like 10% make it past 3 years, and I think thats a high number based on what i've seen. get a goodknight, or get a different job, you'll thank yourself down the road.You're leaving a six figure income to possibly starve or fail as an FA because you don't like the mooches around you? Knocking on doors in the rain seems like a better option? You're nuts. Your wife is right, listen to her.[/quote] Obviously, there is more to the story. The main thrust is that I hardly ever see my wife or kids and it will never change. 20 years from now I could be in the car business making the same money and still not have my weekends off. I had to take a job an hour into the country with a $30K paycut just to get home at a decent hour. So, knocking on doors in the rain excites the hell out of me if I have the opportunity to be home at a decent hour with the potential to have much more freedom down the road. Of course, the guys on this forum are crapping me out pretty good right now.[quote=maddmatt] It drives my wife nuts because she thinks I should be happy since I am successful. Problem is, the auto industry is full of mooches and scammers.
[quote=UNDERMINDED]wow, I agree with everything the other guys have said so far, especially B24, pick your location based on a thriving community, I made the mistake early on and still regret it, “this town needs and enema.”
oh and yes, new new=foodstamps and fired inside 8 mo's. it sucks... hard, a lot of really good people and really good friends of mine, that would have made great brokers couldn't hack it new new... something like 10% make it past 3 years, and I think thats a high number based on what i've seen. get a goodknight, or get a different job, you'll thank yourself down the road.[/quote] How do I get a "goodknight"?maddmatt:
Don't let them "crapp you out". But listen to what they are saying. It is a very tough industry to be successful in, even with assets or an office. From what little we know of you it seems that you might have the skill sets (read selling ability) to be successful and yes you eventually will be able to see your wife and kids and not work crazy hours. So there are some benefits. I remember being recruited by Jones and hearing how great it was and also how hard it was going to be. I didn't TRULY UNDERSTAND how hard it is. Started new new, 7 years and two of the worst bear markets later, still plugging away though. Good luck in search of your new endeavor. Oh, you need to talk to the Regional Leader of the area you are thinking of being in and talk to him about open offices or possible Goodknights.[quote=jkl1v1n6]maddmatt:
Don't let them "crapp you out". But listen to what they are saying. It is a very tough industry to be successful in, even with assets or an office. From what little we know of you it seems that you might have the skill sets (read selling ability) to be successful and yes you eventually will be able to see your wife and kids and not work crazy hours. So there are some benefits. I remember being recruited by Jones and hearing how great it was and also how hard it was going to be. I didn't TRULY UNDERSTAND how hard it is. Started new new, 7 years and two of the worst bear markets later, still plugging away though. Good luck in search of your new endeavor. Oh, you need to talk to the Regional Leader of the area you are thinking of being in and talk to him about open offices or possible Goodknights. [/quote] Thank you for the pep talk. Even after all these years I find salespeople can be fairly insecure at times. I have tremendous motivation to succeed. Just want a mental "leg up".Yeah, I would agree. The posts suddenly seem to have turned from "it's hard work" to "it's not possible".Of course, the guys on this forum are crapping me out pretty good right now.
[quote=maddmatt][quote=B24][quote=maddmatt][quote=buyandhold]That’s too far . You want to live close enough to your office so you can get to the office easily in the evenings on Saturday. You also want to live near your clients so you are part of the community and (ideally) can bump into your prospects at the store or the Little League field. That’s why I think small towns are best for the Jones model.
I would look for a growing, small town with a strong downtown where you can establish a presence. Better still, find such an area where you can get a Legacy or goodnight or take over a failing office. Starting from scratch out of your home is damn near impossible. [/quote] Are you saying that a new advisor operating out of his house from scratch (as the opportunity is pitched by EDJ) will have little chance of success? How do you find out about these "failing" offices or other such "leg ups"? Were most successful offices started by people who were given a leg up? And finally, since this is the rest of my working life I am talking about here, are you successful and how did you do it? [/quote] Yes. New/New's have little chance of success. Sorry. Yes, most successful offices were started by people given a leg up, because most FA's that actually MADE IT were given a leg up. For the REALLY successful people, it almost didn't matter, but most had some advantage (great network from past career, well connected, etc.). In most cases (not all) of a very successful FA (at every firm), there is a "story" behind it.[/quote] And you are with EDJ? Tell me, should I contact my recruiter and bring these issues up at this time? How does one go about asking for a "leg up"? Almost 10 years ago I started in the auto industry knowing nothing about it and no connections. I worked my rear end off and made it to Finance Director inside of 5 years. My understanding of this position with EDJ is that if I employ the same work ethic, with their training, I could expect similar success. What makes the FA position so much harder than other sales fields? [/quote] Matt, I do work at Jones. I am not trying to bring you down or make shit up. I just wish I sort of understood better from the beginning what the road would be like. It was all roses when I was hired. Nothing but up. I just want you to udnerstand what it will be like. It's NOT just about hard work or long hours, it's about the RIGHT activity and a great deal of luck. You could be super successful in this business working 6 hours a day. Or you could work 18 hours a day and fall on your face. It doesn't matter how could a salesperson you are if you have nobody to sell to.C’mon, I was looking for a chuckle. 4 hours into a thread titled “choosing an EDJ location” and no chinese restaurant comments? No dry cleaners comments? Is everyone else that busy today?
[quote=B24][quote=maddmatt][quote=B24][quote=maddmatt][quote=buyandhold]That’s too far . You want to live close enough to your office so you can get to the office easily in the evenings on Saturday. You also want to live near your clients so you are part of the community and (ideally) can bump into your prospects at the store or the Little League field. That’s why I think small towns are best for the Jones model.
I would look for a growing, small town with a strong downtown where you can establish a presence. Better still, find such an area where you can get a Legacy or goodnight or take over a failing office. Starting from scratch out of your home is damn near impossible. [/quote] Are you saying that a new advisor operating out of his house from scratch (as the opportunity is pitched by EDJ) will have little chance of success? How do you find out about these "failing" offices or other such "leg ups"? Were most successful offices started by people who were given a leg up? And finally, since this is the rest of my working life I am talking about here, are you successful and how did you do it? [/quote] Yes. New/New's have little chance of success. Sorry. Yes, most successful offices were started by people given a leg up, because most FA's that actually MADE IT were given a leg up. For the REALLY successful people, it almost didn't matter, but most had some advantage (great network from past career, well connected, etc.). In most cases (not all) of a very successful FA (at every firm), there is a "story" behind it.[/quote] And you are with EDJ? Tell me, should I contact my recruiter and bring these issues up at this time? How does one go about asking for a "leg up"? Almost 10 years ago I started in the auto industry knowing nothing about it and no connections. I worked my rear end off and made it to Finance Director inside of 5 years. My understanding of this position with EDJ is that if I employ the same work ethic, with their training, I could expect similar success. What makes the FA position so much harder than other sales fields? [/quote] Matt, I do work at Jones. I am not trying to bring you down or make shit up. I just wish I sort of understood better from the beginning what the road would be like. It was all roses when I was hired. Nothing but up. I just want you to udnerstand what it will be like. It's NOT just about hard work or long hours, it's about the RIGHT activity and a great deal of luck. You could be super successful in this business working 6 hours a day. Or you could work 18 hours a day and fall on your face. It doesn't matter how could a salesperson you are if you have nobody to sell to. [/quote] My questions were serious questions. I have read many of your posts and I have found you to be fairly honest. I was surprised by your post that basically told me to forget about it unless I had some "easier" path to follow. However, I do understand what you are saying and I appreciate it. At this juncture, not being one to tuck my tail between my legs and run, I am curious as to how one can get an advantage. I e-mailed my Regional and asked about a Goodknight position. Are there any other paths I could take that will get me down the road faster? I am all about getting help. I have enough humility to know that my timing could be way off and I could fall flat on my face. Any and all suggestions are welcomed and appreciated.Choose a place where you want to grow a business, period. You will spend more time there than at your home anyway, might as well be where you want.
And, this is for Hulk...make sure you don't choose an office (when you get the chance) next to a dry cleaner, chinese food restaurant, head shop, dairy farm, etc, etc, etc...Put some thought into your location. It’s one thing that is difficult to change.
In my situation I picked a small commuter town. During the real estate boom the town was robust and seemed like a gold mine in the making. After the real estate bubble popped the trades slowed down. Because the town is somewhat limited, having the trades slow down was disastrous for business. When gas went up to $ 4 a gallon the town almost started acting like it was going away. What I realized after a few years is my town isn’t really a town. It’s an artificial construct of fragmented commuters. There is no town center.
I know the dogma that you can make it in any town. I guess in theory you can. Pick a town with a natural town center and some history. try to find a town with more than one industry. In my town everything was Real Estate and Construction based. The firm acts like this shouldn’t matter. I guess it wouldn’t if I were a magician.
The best way to get a good deal is to interview with lots of different firms. There are differences between firm A and firm B. However, what really matters is “making it”. Don’t listen to the phony machismo about how anyone can do well. My firm likes to post stories about rookies and how well they are doing. then you look them up on Broker check and find out they worked at a different firm for ten years before coming over.
Also, bear in mind the large brokers don’t really care if you wash out. They will most likely cannibalize your accounts if you do. If I could do it again I would work under someone in an independent outfit if possible. It helps to be mentored. I got a friend in an Indy shop with a book smaller than mine. His numbers are down too but at least he doesn’t have someone breathing down his neck saying do more business now.
Business is easy to get when you don’t need it and surprisingly tough to get when you do need it. Get the best deal you can. It’s all psychological. The business is always high pressure but if you reduce the odds of it becoming a vice grip your odds of success increase dramatically.
It’s mostly hard work but with a luck factor. You don’t want to hit a Bear market like this in Segment 2 or 3. It’s cool in Segment one because all you have to do is prospect everyday. In Seg 4 or 5 you have a large enough book to survive.
I love how the firm beats everyone up and acts as if the worst market since 31 has nothing to do with it. I think I can survive. If I don’t they can all kiss me where the sun don’t shine because I’m burning out on the koolaid.
Everyone telling you this is the hardest job you will ever do is right.
Anyone saying you are almost assured failure without assets/gk/failed office takeover is wrong. This is common sense. Chicken or the egg. If everyone fails without "free" assets or accounts who made it to give away those accounts to begin with? Goodknights, Legacy Offices, etc. are a relatively "new" concept at Jones. The first 2000 to 3000 of us made it and we got nothing. I would also say I disagree that you can work incredibly hard and still fail. I have been with Jones for 20 years and I have not met or trained one FA that truly did the work and still failed. They say they did but that is crap. People fail because they won't do the work. True, it is the hardest work you will ever do but most will not do it. You are going to hear all kinds of excuses but the truth is the people that work the hardest (Saturdays, Christmas Eve, New Years Eve, 7:00 at night) succeed. Others blame the man. This is a hard job. This is not a difficult job. It is hard at all firms. Pick one you like. Do the work.ytrewq,
I don't know where to start. I disagreed with so much of your post. First of all, you started 20 years ago! No Do Not Call list, and I assume that you are in a town of less than 100,000. I have yet to meet a truly successful (1M+) Jones IR who isn't in a small or medium size town (away from a metro area). I'm guessing that when you started, you were one of maybe two games in town. I bet the bank didn't really even compete with you. Maybe I'm wrong. Also, your chicken and egg theory is flawed. When I left Jones, I had over $20M+ in assets. If I had gone into a different industry (ie, "failed"), I would have left ALL of those for the guy taking over my office. That would have been a HUGE leg up for him. I got so tired of guys who had been with Jones 10+ years, and due to region restructuring, very few other IRs knew their story, so they talked like they had built everything themselves. When I first met my regional leader (I was a new/new), he told me about how hard it had been to get started, and how he had lived on his gas card for months, etc. It wasn't until almost three years later did another IR tell me that he had taken over an office, and that he was actually a transfer broker from another firm! He acted like he was a new/new who had made it, and he was not. People can "do the work" and still fail. My regional leader (yep, the same one) was fond of saying "IR's always quit just before they would have been successful." What a stupid statement. He has no idea of when they would have been successful, but I bet they knew that their mortgage and credit card bills were late, and had they stuck around they may have REALLY failed (bankruptcy, etc.). Saying that you've never seen someone "do the work" and still fail is like saying that you've never seen someone who "really studied" fail a test. It's a hindsight statement (ie, if they failed they must not have done the work, or if they didn't fail then they really did the work). For the guy looking at Jones, good luck. It's a good firm and will train you right. Try and get an open office, or a goodknight. I would not recommend setting up in a fast growing suburb. Stick with a stodgy small or medium size town. Work like crazy.Well, that's very encouraging for me because that is how I operated in the mortgage business for the last 5 years. I worked Saturday. I put in hours calling clients on Sunday. I once had a client dump another broker and go with me because I cold called him on a national holiday. He said anyone that determined to get business is the guy he wanted in his corner. I worked from home and made calls every night until 9pm. My clients knew they were allowed to call me at home anywhere up until 10. I fielded calls from clients standing on line for rides when I took my family to DisneyWorld. My wife didnt even mind. I am not a punchclock guy. When there's work to be done, I do it. When the phone rings, I'm working, no matter what time or day of the week. This is how I have lived for the last five years and I didn't mind it at all. Maybe I can do this.You are going to hear all kinds of excuses but the truth is the people that work the hardest (Saturdays, Christmas Eve, New Years Eve, 7:00 at night) succeed.
ytrewq,
Spoken like a true Ed Jones 20 year vet. You forgot two things: Work two years like you never thought you could, live the rest of your life like you never thought you would. And Be happy that this job is hard because if it wasn't everyone would be doing it. Both of them pure B.S.
This is not to be a personal attack to you but I've heard this so many times I want to puke. I know of ONE IR/FA in my old region in the past 10 years that has actually started as a true new/new that has made it. All of the other guys must have not done the work. SUUURRRE. The go to response when someone doesn't make it. There are no other FA's starting new/new in the past two years. BTW of those that "failed" at Jones a few are out of the business sure, others are doing very well with other firms. Need a little luck too. Don't give me the you create your own luck from the activities you do line either.
I, like a couple of posters I’m seeing here, am a “new/new”. I will be starting with the study program this summer after I retire from my current employer, and this has been an interesting thread for all the perspective.
I know hard work, accepting a challenge, not quitting, and long hours as much as anybody, and I'm going to give this new profession all I have, but I will have my limits. I have spent too many months and years away from my family now, and I can tell you that I will NOT be talking with clients on Christmas Eve, New Years, Sundays, or while waiting for a ride at Disney. You can be wildly successful and wealthy, but when the day you come home to share the excitement and your family has a life completely separate of you, it won't matter. Long hours and Saturdays, no problem, but there has to be a balance with what is truly important. If this is a recipe for failure, I would question ones definition of success.[quote=jkl1v1n6]
ytrewq,
Spoken like a true Ed Jones 20 year vet. You forgot two things: Work two years like you never thought you could, live the rest of your life like you never thought you would. And Be happy that this job is hard because if it wasn't everyone would be doing it. Both of them pure B.S.
This is not to be a personal attack to you but I've heard this so many times I want to puke. I know of ONE IR/FA in my old region in the past 10 years that has actually started as a true new/new that has made it. All of the other guys must have not done the work. SUUURRRE. The go to response when someone doesn't make it. There are no other FA's starting new/new in the past two years. BTW of those that "failed" at Jones a few are out of the business sure, others are doing very well with other firms. Need a little luck too. Don't give me the you create your own luck from the activities you do line either.
[/quote] I've heard excuses like yours so often I want to puke. It is human nature to rationalize failure as the result of anything but our own behavior. Although I can't prove it, I bet most on this site bemoaning the unfairness of the "man" or the "system" or "luck" are 1: NOT succeeding. 2: NOT even close to working as hard or as many hours as those who do not complain and are succeeding. This applies to all firms. IndyOne. I do not have enough time to dispute your post this morning. I will disagree with all of your "excuses" some other time. Let the complaining begin.ytrewq,
I appreciate your insight as a seasoned vet.... but you should aknowledge that things are probably more than a little different now, the 150,000 reg. reps 20 yrs ago is just under 400,000 now, and in 05' it was almost 600,000. 20 yrs ago there was 1 jones office in my thriving community, now there are 4 in a failing failing community. The process is different, the requirements are different, a lot can change in 20+ yrs. You obviously know how to run a successful business, you know how to train FA's, and build your book. But we don't know for certain if you started today, that you'd be around in 6 months, there's just no measurement for that.[quote=ytrewq][quote=jkl1v1n6]
ytrewq,
Spoken like a true Ed Jones 20 year vet. You forgot two things: Work two years like you never thought you could, live the rest of your life like you never thought you would. And Be happy that this job is hard because if it wasn't everyone would be doing it. Both of them pure B.S.
This is not to be a personal attack to you but I've heard this so many times I want to puke. I know of ONE IR/FA in my old region in the past 10 years that has actually started as a true new/new that has made it. All of the other guys must have not done the work. SUUURRRE. The go to response when someone doesn't make it. There are no other FA's starting new/new in the past two years. BTW of those that "failed" at Jones a few are out of the business sure, others are doing very well with other firms. Need a little luck too. Don't give me the you create your own luck from the activities you do line either.
[/quote] I've heard excuses like yours so often I want to puke. It is human nature to rationalize failure as the result of anything but our own behavior. Although I can't prove it, I bet most on this site bemoaning the unfairness of the "man" or the "system" or "luck" are 1: NOT succeeding. 2: NOT even close to working as hard or as many hours as those who do not complain and are succeeding. This applies to all firms. IndyOne. I do not have enough time to dispute your post this morning. I will disagree with all of your "excuses" some other time. Let the complaining begin.[/quote] Could you point out the excuses I made. I am having trouble finding them. But then again since I chose to leave Jones I must be a failure, and am failing to see my excuses so plainly laid out in the post.[quote=jkl1v1n6][quote=ytrewq][quote=jkl1v1n6]
ytrewq,
Spoken like a true Ed Jones 20 year vet. You forgot two things: Work two years like you never thought you could, live the rest of your life like you never thought you would. And Be happy that this job is hard because if it wasn't everyone would be doing it. Both of them pure B.S.
This is not to be a personal attack to you but I've heard this so many times I want to puke. I know of ONE IR/FA in my old region in the past 10 years that has actually started as a true new/new that has made it. All of the other guys must have not done the work. SUUURRRE. The go to response when someone doesn't make it. There are no other FA's starting new/new in the past two years. BTW of those that "failed" at Jones a few are out of the business sure, others are doing very well with other firms. Need a little luck too. Don't give me the you create your own luck from the activities you do line either.
[/quote] I've heard excuses like yours so often I want to puke. It is human nature to rationalize failure as the result of anything but our own behavior. Although I can't prove it, I bet most on this site bemoaning the unfairness of the "man" or the "system" or "luck" are 1: NOT succeeding. 2: NOT even close to working as hard or as many hours as those who do not complain and are succeeding. This applies to all firms. IndyOne. I do not have enough time to dispute your post this morning. I will disagree with all of your "excuses" some other time. Let the complaining begin.[/quote] Could you point out the excuses I made. I am having trouble finding them. But then again since I chose to leave Jones I must be a failure, and am failing to see my excuses so plainly laid out in the post. [/quote] <<<>>> Since you left Jones, but you are still "plugging away", what would you suggest? Is there another firm you would recommend over EDJ? Also, how successful have you been since you left Jones as compared to your success at Jones? What is the control factor here? These are serious questions. A sincere reply is always appreciated.[quote=maddmatt][quote=B24][quote=maddmatt][quote=B24][quote=maddmatt][quote=buyandhold]That’s too far . You want to live close enough to your office so you can get to the office easily in the evenings on Saturday. You also want to live near your clients so you are part of the community and (ideally) can bump into your prospects at the store or the Little League field. That’s why I think small towns are best for the Jones model.
I would look for a growing, small town with a strong downtown where you can establish a presence. Better still, find such an area where you can get a Legacy or goodnight or take over a failing office. Starting from scratch out of your home is damn near impossible. [/quote] Are you saying that a new advisor operating out of his house from scratch (as the opportunity is pitched by EDJ) will have little chance of success? How do you find out about these "failing" offices or other such "leg ups"? Were most successful offices started by people who were given a leg up? And finally, since this is the rest of my working life I am talking about here, are you successful and how did you do it? [/quote] Yes. New/New's have little chance of success. Sorry. Yes, most successful offices were started by people given a leg up, because most FA's that actually MADE IT were given a leg up. For the REALLY successful people, it almost didn't matter, but most had some advantage (great network from past career, well connected, etc.). In most cases (not all) of a very successful FA (at every firm), there is a "story" behind it.[/quote] And you are with EDJ? Tell me, should I contact my recruiter and bring these issues up at this time? How does one go about asking for a "leg up"? Almost 10 years ago I started in the auto industry knowing nothing about it and no connections. I worked my rear end off and made it to Finance Director inside of 5 years. My understanding of this position with EDJ is that if I employ the same work ethic, with their training, I could expect similar success. What makes the FA position so much harder than other sales fields? [/quote] Matt, I do work at Jones. I am not trying to bring you down or make shit up. I just wish I sort of understood better from the beginning what the road would be like. It was all roses when I was hired. Nothing but up. I just want you to udnerstand what it will be like. It's NOT just about hard work or long hours, it's about the RIGHT activity and a great deal of luck. You could be super successful in this business working 6 hours a day. Or you could work 18 hours a day and fall on your face. It doesn't matter how could a salesperson you are if you have nobody to sell to. [/quote] My questions were serious questions. I have read many of your posts and I have found you to be fairly honest. I was surprised by your post that basically told me to forget about it unless I had some "easier" path to follow. However, I do understand what you are saying and I appreciate it. At this juncture, not being one to tuck my tail between my legs and run, I am curious as to how one can get an advantage. I e-mailed my Regional and asked about a Goodknight position. Are there any other paths I could take that will get me down the road faster? I am all about getting help. I have enough humility to know that my timing could be way off and I could fall flat on my face. Any and all suggestions are welcomed and appreciated. [/quote] Matt, I am not trying to talk you out of it. What I AM trying to do is bring a sense of reality to the job that more new FA's need before they sign. I guess I am trying to "scare you straight" before you start (at any firm). This is a hard business. It is not for the faint of heart, and there is a real chance of failure. I have seen too many FA's work real hard, but do the same dumb stuff over and over because they just don't "get it". It's not necessarily their fault, they either just don't know how to sell, or can't connect with people very well. But then I also see people with lots of potential that stop working hard much too soon in the process. You CAN make it work. To be honest, a samll Goodknight plan (say $5mm) will only give you a leg up for the first 6-12 months. After that, a good, hard working new FA will blow away someone given a little leg up that's not pushing it. Yes, there are stories of people given $20,30,40mm books, but those are less common than everyone thinks. I wish you luck, just remember to not let up until you have enough assets to walk in the door and put your feet up on the table and make a living (hint: it's a long time).[quote=B24][quote=maddmatt][quote=B24][quote=maddmatt][quote=B24][quote=maddmatt][quote=buyandhold]That’s too far . You want to live close enough to your office so you can get to the office easily in the evenings on Saturday. You also want to live near your clients so you are part of the community and (ideally) can bump into your prospects at the store or the Little League field. That’s why I think small towns are best for the Jones model.
I would look for a growing, small town with a strong downtown where you can establish a presence. Better still, find such an area where you can get a Legacy or goodnight or take over a failing office. Starting from scratch out of your home is damn near impossible. [/quote] Are you saying that a new advisor operating out of his house from scratch (as the opportunity is pitched by EDJ) will have little chance of success? How do you find out about these "failing" offices or other such "leg ups"? Were most successful offices started by people who were given a leg up? And finally, since this is the rest of my working life I am talking about here, are you successful and how did you do it? [/quote] Yes. New/New's have little chance of success. Sorry. Yes, most successful offices were started by people given a leg up, because most FA's that actually MADE IT were given a leg up. For the REALLY successful people, it almost didn't matter, but most had some advantage (great network from past career, well connected, etc.). In most cases (not all) of a very successful FA (at every firm), there is a "story" behind it.[/quote] And you are with EDJ? Tell me, should I contact my recruiter and bring these issues up at this time? How does one go about asking for a "leg up"? Almost 10 years ago I started in the auto industry knowing nothing about it and no connections. I worked my rear end off and made it to Finance Director inside of 5 years. My understanding of this position with EDJ is that if I employ the same work ethic, with their training, I could expect similar success. What makes the FA position so much harder than other sales fields? [/quote] Matt, I do work at Jones. I am not trying to bring you down or make shit up. I just wish I sort of understood better from the beginning what the road would be like. It was all roses when I was hired. Nothing but up. I just want you to udnerstand what it will be like. It's NOT just about hard work or long hours, it's about the RIGHT activity and a great deal of luck. You could be super successful in this business working 6 hours a day. Or you could work 18 hours a day and fall on your face. It doesn't matter how could a salesperson you are if you have nobody to sell to. [/quote] My questions were serious questions. I have read many of your posts and I have found you to be fairly honest. I was surprised by your post that basically told me to forget about it unless I had some "easier" path to follow. However, I do understand what you are saying and I appreciate it. At this juncture, not being one to tuck my tail between my legs and run, I am curious as to how one can get an advantage. I e-mailed my Regional and asked about a Goodknight position. Are there any other paths I could take that will get me down the road faster? I am all about getting help. I have enough humility to know that my timing could be way off and I could fall flat on my face. Any and all suggestions are welcomed and appreciated. [/quote] Matt, I am not trying to talk you out of it. What I AM trying to do is bring a sense of reality to the job that more new FA's need before they sign. I guess I am trying to "scare you straight" before you start (at any firm). This is a hard business. It is not for the faint of heart, and there is a real chance of failure. I have seen too many FA's work real hard, but do the same dumb stuff over and over because they just don't "get it". It's not necessarily their fault, they either just don't know how to sell, or can't connect with people very well. But then I also see people with lots of potential that stop working hard much too soon in the process. You CAN make it work. To be honest, a samll Goodknight plan (say $5mm) will only give you a leg up for the first 6-12 months. After that, a good, hard working new FA will blow away someone given a little leg up that's not pushing it. Yes, there are stories of people given $20,30,40mm books, but those are less common than everyone thinks. I wish you luck, just remember to not let up until you have enough assets to walk in the door and put your feet up on the table and make a living (hint: it's a long time).[/quote] I appreciate the honesty. I know this market is out of whack. I have been in Financial Services for 20 years. I have never seen such a mess. When I start thinking I must be out of my mind to start a new career and I want to fall back on my current position I get feedback from people I know and trust with many years of life experience telling me this is a great time for me to make the change. In fact, I have not had a single person look at me crosseyed. Either they know I will succeed because they know me or they are afraid to tell me I'm crazy because they love me. So, I turn to forums such as this for a more clinical unbiased viewpoint. My selling ability and work ethic are not my concern. My main concern is that this market isn't saturated and that my timing might be way off. I do have another question for you: I live in a city without about 75K people. I am north of DFW by about 35 miles. There are currently 8 Jones reps in my city. This is 1 rep for every 9K people. This seems a tad saturated to me. What are your thoughts on this?I've said it before and I'll say it again. Jones is a good place to start, but if you start out totally new/new it will be hard. I'd be looking for a place with assets to start, doesn't matter which firm. Problem is that will be very hard to come by right now. If I read a post of yours correctly you have 20 yrs in Fin Serv. maybe look at a bank or credit union.
My financial success is a little better then when I was at Jones but not too much. My personal success is a world apart. I'm not as stressed out, I'm debt free, I don't have to work weekends or nights unless I choose to. I spend a lot of time with my family and I'm much happier when I'm doing it due to the lower stress levels. That to me is my measurement of success.
maddmatt,
Listen to B24, he's keeping it real and he is still there. Sounds like he is one of the Vet's that actually cares about all the newer brokers coming in to Jones.
From my experience Jones doesn't believe in markets being saturated.
[/quote]
My main concern is that this market isn't saturated and that my timing might be way off. I do have another question for you: I live in a city without about 75K people. I am north of DFW by about 35 miles. There are currently 8 Jones reps in my city. This is 1 rep for every 9K people. This seems a tad saturated to me. What are your thoughts on this?[/quote] I don't know if saturation is ever an issue. My town of 81,000 has a ML office with at least 40 brokers in it and I doubt any of them worry about saturation. There are also banks and other wirehouses and independents -- probably the same in your town. You can't control that. There are gas stations on every corner and lots of people make livings owning gas stations. So it is in our business, except the barriers to entry are higher and the dropout rate higher. Jones is probably well known in your town and that will help.[quote=jkl1v1n6]
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Jones is a good place to start, but if you start out totally new/new it will be hard. I'd be looking for a place with assets to start, doesn't matter which firm. Problem is that will be very hard to come by right now. If I read a post of yours correctly you have 20 yrs in Fin Serv. maybe look at a bank or credit union.
My financial success is a little better then when I was at Jones but not too much. My personal success is a world apart. I'm not as stressed out, I'm debt free, I don't have to work weekends or nights unless I choose to. I spend a lot of time with my family and I'm much happier when I'm doing it due to the lower stress levels. That to me is my measurement of success.
[/quote] I agree on your assesment of what success is. Success can mean many different things to many different people. I imagine Bernie Madoff doesn't feel too successful right now. Are you suggesting I work for a bank or credit union? Never thought of a credit union as an option. I actually like the Jones business model. Years ago I made a decent living running Medicare Supplement leads until the government restructured our commissions. So, the door to door thing doesn't bother me a whole lot. I also have many contacts in the auto industry. I feel as if I could make a good run of it. Knowing what people in the industry are going through right now is a tremendous benefit. I'll say this much: if there were rose colored glasses on my face prior to reading this forum, there aren't any now.New/News, be prepared to work out of your house for the next 15 mos. rpior to getting in your office, I have started new and it’s tough, trust is the biggest barrier. Month one two and three after can sell the whole "I’m looking for a good location/waiting on leasing negotiations etc. is fine; but by month 6 or 7 it’s OLD! to you…to your clients…to your prospects… I am doing OK all considered, but IT SUCKS be prepared for frustration being a regularity as a new new.
As an aside, I actually think having Jones offices close by is an advantage; it gives you a possible placeto meet until your office is complete, your prospects will more readily recognize and respect the brand, and if you are working hard and a seg 5 takes notice he/she may bring you in out of the cold, at the least a legacy(office sharing) possibly a goodknight (asset and office sharing). I am in a small town of just under 3k population. next closest office is approx. 15-20 min. away. It's tough to be the long term door-to-door stockbroker, Good luck! Just some insight from the trenches DC[quote=maddmatt]
I appreciate the honesty. I know this market is out of whack. I have been in Financial Services for 20 years. I have never seen such a mess. When I start thinking I must be out of my mind to start a new career and I want to fall back on my current position I get feedback from people I know and trust with many years of life experience telling me this is a great time for me to make the change. In fact, I have not had a single person look at me crosseyed. Either they know I will succeed because they know me or they are afraid to tell me I'm crazy because they love me. So, I turn to forums such as this for a more clinical unbiased viewpoint. My selling ability and work ethic are not my concern. My main concern is that this market isn't saturated and that my timing might be way off. I do have another question for you: I live in a city without about 75K people. I am north of DFW by about 35 miles. There are currently 8 Jones reps in my city. This is 1 rep for every 9K people. This seems a tad saturated to me. What are your thoughts on this? [/quote] There are now 3 Jones reps in my town of about 12,000. There are also 7 at AGE/WACH/WF, 6 at SB, 4 at Merrill, 6 at MS, a handful of indy advisors, many insurance guys that also do investments, and 7 banks, all that have one or two investment reps. And there is still more than enough assets out there. But probably more than 65% my clients aren't even in my zipcode, so how do you actually measure? I bet if you ask most advisors, they will tell you that at least 50% of their clients are not in their own zipcode. Bottom line, are there enough people out there within a 50-mile radius? How many companies are in your area that people commute to? How many of your potential clients have co-workers (i.e. referrals)? Don't get hung up on how many people are in town unless you live in a rural community without ties to the outside communities. But heck, some of our best producers live in those type of towns.B24, what are the liguid investable asset projections for the town of 12k? just curious. Seems like alot of brokers for such a small community
DC - what’s it like to be the only Jones guy in town? Within that same 15-25 minute drive in my area there are, oh, 35 other Jones FAs. Wanna trade offices?
Jones figures a zip code with at least $750 million of liquid investable assets will support an office. If B24 has 3 Jones guys that's about $2.25 Billion in dollars out there to go get and that doesn't include any other zip codes in that area. If there are say 40 investment guys in town that do investments only, that's $56 million to split between them all. In a town like that if you have even a bit above that average, you're living a pretty good lifestyle. Probably as good as all of the doctors and attorneys in town. You're goal is to just make sure you work your tail off to get your chunk of those assets.Spiff nailed it. But my point was that the majority of my clients aren't even in my office's zipcode. And I would suggest that it's the same thing for most other brokers. So my "true" territory is more like my county, which has 250,000 people (100,000 households). I would say 85% of my clients, give or take, are within my county. The reported LNIA's in my county are about $35Billion. So I live in a rather wealthy area. And I think 35B's can be split among a few of us. And there are (I think) 8 Jones FA's in my county.B24, what are the liguid investable asset projections for the town of 12k? just curious. Seems like alot of brokers for such a small community
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]DC - what’s it like to be the only Jones guy in town? Within that same 15-25 minute drive in my area there are, oh, 35 other Jones FAs. Wanna trade offices?
Jones figures a zip code with at least $750 million of liquid investable assets will support an office. If B24 has 3 Jones guys that's about $2.25 Billion in dollars out there to go get and that doesn't include any other zip codes in that area. If there are say 40 investment guys in town that do investments only, that's $56 million to split between them all. In a town like that if you have even a bit above that average, you're living a pretty good lifestyle. Probably as good as all of the doctors and attorneys in town. You're goal is to just make sure you work your tail off to get your chunk of those assets. [/quote] And you don't even need a high school diploma to get into the game.Saw a story in the WSJ about Jones today. The line “high fees and conservative investments” didn’t sound very favorable. How do you Jones guys deal with these types of objections?
Our fees are no higher than anybody elses. ... And by conservative investments, he means we don't get into things like commodities or options or margin trading. That's generally a point in our favor with prospects.Saw a story in the WSJ about Jones today. The line “high fees and conservative investments” didn’t sound very favorable. How do you Jones guys deal with these types of objections?
maddmatt
I am with jones and almost 2yrs out of the gate. Here is my 2 cents. Year one selling not as hard as you think, you are working your tail off and getting a salary, very small but you aren't starting at zero. Year two, that salary is gone and the pressure to produce and survive mounts. I have found that the lows in this biz are really low, but all it takes is one day to turn them around. As long as your lows are getting higher rather than lower, you should be fine... can't say enough about just doing the work and keeping it positive between the ears. Good luck to you at whatever firm you choose, it will be 10 times as hard as you think it will be, no matter how much you read these forums.Got another question for you Jonesers: Will they mind if I do my survey allotment at the local mall instead of door to door? Snowing here this weekend with record cold coming next week.
I would think they shouldn't care, it not only demonstrates an ability to introduce yourself to people but to do so in a potentially hostile environment. Whaddya think?[quote=Potential]Got another question for you Jonesers: Will they mind if I do my survey allotment at the local mall instead of door to door? Snowing here this weekend with record cold coming next week.
I would think they shouldn't care, it not only demonstrates an ability to introduce yourself to people but to do so in a potentially hostile environment. Whaddya think?[/quote] No, you can't solicit at a mall. They have no soliciting rules. .... It also sounds as if you're trying to get around the basic job, which is introducing yourself to potential investors at the door. If you can do it another way, great, but that's the Jones formula. Doorknocking in the snow and cold is not fun, but it's not that difficult. Lots of people work outside in the winter. There will be harder things in your future.No, just trying to get around the weather. Personally I don't understand why Jones doesn't a dopt a two-fold strategy of doorknocking and phone coldcalls. Guys have made fortunes working the phones, its proven to work. So why subject your workforce to the rigors and indignity of doorknocking in the snow and rain? It can't be good for morale.It also sounds as if you’re trying to get around the basic job, which is introducing yourself to potential investors at the door.
No, just trying to get around the weather. Personally I don't understand why Jones doesn't a dopt a two-fold strategy of doorknocking and phone coldcalls. Guys have made fortunes working the phones, its proven to work. So why subject your workforce to the rigors and indignity of doorknocking in the snow and rain? It can't be good for morale. [/quote] Good one. Thanks for making me smile. Cold calling? I will have to look into that. None of us have ever considered that before. The rigors of doorknocking? Ha. Geez, you walk around for few hours introducing yourself to potential clients, then go back to the office to call the people you met the previous week. It can be discouraging, but it's not really hard. Now if I had to tote around a jackhammer for 10 hours in the freezing weather, like my old man, that would be rigorous. PS: When it snows, I put on some boots. Same when the bs starts getting thick.[quote=buyandhold]It also sounds as if you’re trying to get around the basic job, which is introducing yourself to potential investors at the door.
Go to businesses and talk to the owners instead of residential. And I don’t mean the stores at the mall - I mean local businesses - shops, restaurants, etc. that have local owners. You can talk to the managers too.
[quote=buyandhold]Good one. Thanks for making me smile.
Cold calling? I will have to look into that. None of us have ever considered that before.[/quote] Why the sarcasm? Did I imply no one had ever thought of cold calling before? [quote=buyandhold]The rigors of doorknocking?[/quote] Yeah, the rigors. I would say making a phone call is easier than walking around in 25 degree weather while it's snowing (like it is right now), wouldn't you? [quote=buyandhold] Now if I had to tote around a jackhammer for 10 hours in the freezing weather, like my old man, that would be rigorous. [/quote] I guess if your old man ever logs in, he'll have the right to ridicule me for calling doorknocking rigorous. Seriously, I don't want to be contentious. If you don't have something constructive to say, please spare me the mindless jeering and derision. Doorknocking is more rigorous than phone calling. That's a fact, not an opinion.Good idea. Thanks for the constructive response, B24.Go to businesses and talk to the owners instead of residential. And I don’t mean the stores at the mall - I mean local businesses - shops, restaurants, etc. that have local owners. You can talk to the managers too.
[quote=Potential]
Why the sarcasm?I don’t mean anything personal. But you’re thinking too much. They want to see if you have the moxie to go out and do 25 surveys before they hire you. And they want to know if you can commit to doorknocking. If you can do it some other way, great, but that’s the Jones recipe, and it works. Do businesses if you want, it’s probably better than homes. But you are going to have to physically get in front of people, no matter what the weather.
And no, doorknocking is not particularily rigorous. Personally I would much rather walk around and talk to people, even on a cold day, than sit in the office pounding the phone.
I was hired by Jones, and will be starting this summer. I looked at the door knocking a bit differently; I wanted to see what it would take for me to do it, what the responses/reception would be, and if I saw myself doing this for the foreseeable future.
As far as the subsequent interview goes, the gentleman barely looked at them. You could write anything in the sheets and nobody would honestly know. Do the door knocking under the conditions you will have to when your paycheck depends on it, and it may answer more questions for you than the forum. Just the .02 from someone who has yet to even start training.[quote=Potential][quote=buyandhold]Good one. Thanks for making me smile.
Cold calling? I will have to look into that. None of us have ever considered that before.[/quote] Why the sarcasm? Did I imply no one had ever thought of cold calling before? [quote=buyandhold]The rigors of doorknocking?[/quote] Yeah, the rigors. I would say making a phone call is easier than walking around in 25 degree weather while it's snowing (like it is right now), wouldn't you? [quote=buyandhold] Now if I had to tote around a jackhammer for 10 hours in the freezing weather, like my old man, that would be rigorous. [/quote] I guess if your old man ever logs in, he'll have the right to ridicule me for calling doorknocking rigorous. Seriously, I don't want to be contentious. If you don't have something constructive to say, please spare me the mindless jeering and derision. Doorknocking is more rigorous than phone calling. That's a fact, not an opinion.[/quote]Please say rigroes, instead of rigors. Thanks.
[quote=Potential][quote=buyandhold]Good one. Thanks for making me smile.
Cold calling? I will have to look into that. None of us have ever considered that before.[/quote] Why the sarcasm? Did I imply no one had ever thought of cold calling before? [quote=buyandhold]The rigors of doorknocking?[/quote] Yeah, the rigors. I would say making a phone call is easier than walking around in 25 degree weather while it's snowing (like it is right now), wouldn't you? [quote=buyandhold] Now if I had to tote around a jackhammer for 10 hours in the freezing weather, like my old man, that would be rigorous. [/quote] I guess if your old man ever logs in, he'll have the right to ridicule me for calling doorknocking rigorous. Seriously, I don't want to be contentious. If you don't have something constructive to say, please spare me the mindless jeering and derision. Doorknocking is more rigorous than phone calling. That's a fact, not an opinion.[/quote]I'm not from EJ and a conversation about their methodology is foreign to me, might as well be written in German/ But for sure. despite your intentions, you are being contentious.
[quote=Chuck]maddmatt
I am with jones and almost 2yrs out of the gate. Here is my 2 cents. Year one selling not as hard as you think, you are working your tail off and getting a salary, very small but you aren't starting at zero. Year two, that salary is gone and the pressure to produce and survive mounts. I have found that the lows in this biz are really low, but all it takes is one day to turn them around. As long as your lows are getting higher rather than lower, you should be fine... can't say enough about just doing the work and keeping it positive between the ears. Good luck to you at whatever firm you choose, it will be 10 times as hard as you think it will be, no matter how much you read these forums. [/quote] Appreciate the heads up. The article in WSJ also stated the average Jones rep. earns $65K a year, yet the interviewer at Jones told me it was $299K. I imagine somewhere in between is the truth, but it does matter how accurate these numbers are. If $65K is accurate, that seems a tad low. Unless they meant 1st year and neglected to say that. Any ideas?HAHAHA the guy who told you $299k was sniffing glue. There are only 4 FA’s in my region pulling down 299K and I think 1 of them is well below that right now. 65k probably is accurate but you have to keep in mind, that number includes the couple thousand >2yrs FA’s who are making 35-50k. After 4 yrs you should be pulling down about 100-120k. The average in my region is probably around 175k. Just think of it this way, Top Producers is anything over 500k gross. Thats only 200k net. There were only like 258 Top Producers last year.
food for thoughtAverages don’t mean diddly. I can say for certain that the average for the firm is much higher than 65K. But it is certainly NOT 299K. If I could venture a guess, I would say it is somewhere in the 125K range. Keep in mind, though there are like 12,000 FA’s, about half of them started in the past 5 years, so it’s a very young company, in terms of tenure. And also, 65K net does not even equate to a profitable office (you need to be somewhere around 85K net to be profitable, even though it’s more a function of gross production and expenses).
I would guess the article was talking more about someone in their first few years or something.Spiff nailed it. But my point was that the majority of my clients aren't even in my office's zipcode. And I would suggest that it's the same thing for most other brokers. So my "true" territory is more like my county, which has 250,000 people (100,000 households). I would say 85% of my clients, give or take, are within my county. The reported LNIA's in my county are about $35Billion. So I live in a rather wealthy area. And I think 35B's can be split among a few of us. And there are (I think) 8 Jones FA's in my county.[/quote] Spiff/B24... My location has 460mm L.I.A., Jones currently has almost 5%mkt share currently, competition in town is negligeable (ins. salesmen). Good or bad situation overall, considering apparently the assets are lower than usual? Thanks![quote=DCnew]B24, what are the liguid investable asset projections for the town of 12k? just curious. Seems like alot of brokers for such a small community
460mm is a small zip code, but I have to assume that you pull clients (or can) from other markets. If you are looking at the Market Share report from Jones, keep in mind, those are just zip codes. Most of us pull clients from well beyond our own zip code. So look at all the zips that you pull clients from and add them up. I would guess it’s a much bigger number.
Just look at your market share. 5% of 460mm is only 23mm. So the other Jones guys must be pulling market share from other zips.[quote=B24]Averages don’t mean diddly. I can say for certain that the average for the firm is much higher than 65K. But it is certainly NOT 299K. If I could venture a guess, I would say it is somewhere in the 125K range. Keep in mind, though there are like 12,000 FA’s, about half of them started in the past 5 years, so it’s a very young company, in terms of tenure. And also, 65K net does not even equate to a profitable office (you need to be somewhere around 85K net to be profitable, even though it’s more a function of gross production and expenses).
I would guess the article was talking more about someone in their first few years or something.[/quote] I thought $65K sounded low. Of course, I don't plan on being average, but these numbers do help a person assess an opportunity. If the average doctor only made $35K a year I doubt very many people would pay for medical school. I have heard for years that the average stockbroker made around $58K per year. Taking the bank reps and newbies I figured this to be a six figure opportunity or higher for a hustler. I can see the first two or three years will be an ass whipping. I am amazed at the recent growth at Jones. Is this a good or bad thing?[quote=UNDERMINDED]HAHAHA the guy who told you $299k was sniffing glue. There are only 4 FA’s in my region pulling down 299K and I think 1 of them is well below that right now. 65k probably is accurate but you have to keep in mind, that number includes the couple thousand >2yrs FA’s who are making 35-50k. After 4 yrs you should be pulling down about 100-120k. The average in my region is probably around 175k. Just think of it this way, Top Producers is anything over 500k gross. Thats only 200k net. There were only like 258 Top Producers last year.
food for thought[/quote] Makes sense. Thanks for the input.$65K is probably what they pay the backoffice people in St Louis…
I read that the average home office person only makes $36k. That kinda sucks.
The average home-office person answers the phone and gives out information they pull off the system. Not to discredit them, but there are lots of entry-level employees at the home office.
This is a quote from some Edward Jones material..."The average yearly earnings for Edward Jones Financial Advisors with 7 or more years' tenure who are meeting expectations is $203000..."
According to most of the reps I've spoken with first year earnings usually average from 45K-55K depending on production. I guess if you consider the Pareto Principle, the top 20% generally make 80% of the total income. My GUESS would be that if you actually did a weighted average of all Jones reps...a cross section of reps might look something like this: top 5% make 300K or more, next 10% make 150K-300K, middle 50% make 75K-150K, and the rest make less. Of course, this is complete conjecture and has no basis in reality. Just a guess based on intuition. My contention is that the few top guys are skewing the average a lot more than the multitude of bottom guys. Anyone in any type of sales is familiar with this type of distribution of wealth. As a result, I take everything I "hear" with a grain of salt. I'll find out soon enough how much I'll make as a Jones rep...I was just hired!Congrats!..I’m still thinking about it, but I wish you all the best.
Good Luck to you Fud Box!
Thank you much! Looking forward to the day when I know what I don’t know, so I can ask you guys some intelligent questions.
[quote=Fud Box]
This is a quote from some Edward Jones material..."The average yearly earnings for Edward Jones Financial Advisors with 7 or more years' tenure who are meeting expectations is $203000..."
[/quote] That $203,000 almost certainly includes bonuses, trip values, profit sharing, etc.I went to the mall over the weekend and got 38 interviews in 2.5 hours. It was like shooting fish in a barrel, only 3 people I approached didn't want to interview. Do you think EJ will care (or even check) that I didn't do it door-to-door? I'm thinking about going back out and getting another 20 door-to-door, just in case.As far as the subsequent interview goes, the gentleman barely looked at them.
Potential,
The surveys would be fine for the interview, but I HIGHLY recommend you go back out in a higher end neighborhood, preferably comparable to the potential office location and door knock for YOUR sake, and make sure your willing to do this long term. Just a little advice Oh, and 3-7 are usually prime hours.I noticed about the hours. I went at 1:30 and got four answers in 26 knocks.
[quote=DCnew]Potential,
The surveys would be fine for the interview, but I HIGHLY recommend you go back out in a higher end neighborhood, preferably comparable to the potential office location and door knock for YOUR sake, and make sure your willing to do this long term. Just a little advice Oh, and 3-7 are usually prime hours. [/quote] I know this wasn't directed at me, but I might have to take this advice anyway!As I understood the EDJ website and pdf file - they (the marketing dept) have already pre-selected several locations for new FA’s. Which would be fine for me, because I’ve been to several provinces in Canada and I haven’t really decided where I want to retire to…I digress, does EDJ pick or advise new FA wrt locations?
They ask you where you would like to establish yourself and the market analysis department checks if there is room there for you. I have been told I can pick whatever area I wish and an alternative one if the primary is not available. However, everyone I have talked to at EJ has been trying to persuade me to set up shop where I live. I dunno. If I had to say which would be more predictive of a lucrative career with EJ, I'd have to say that working a territory with twice the median household income of my neighborhood far outweighs any benefit of "running into potential clients at the supermarket and little league field." I'm happy to play Mr. Main Street financial advisor and knock on doors if they like. But asking me to ignore basic math and common sense is a bit much. Where are you more likely to find people with money to invest? A neighborhood with a median household income of $87,000 a year or one with $42,000?does EDJ pick or advise new FA wrt locations?
I am wrapping up SFS with EDJ and just received a wire from Market Analyis. They are giving me a choice of two intersections (2 mile radius) to choose from. One of the intersections is downtown, and in close proximity to the banks. The other intersection is centered closer to the regional hospital, and also has some retirement communities (snowbird parks-no solicitation signs abound). Both intersections have some overlap with each other (2 mile radius). The total community is +/- 50K. Knowing what you guys know now, which one would you choose and why?
Hank, I’m in the same boat as you and just picked my location a few days ago.
I can't tell you which one to pick, that's up to you I can tell you how I made my decision. After reading these forums and talking to Vets their best advice was go for an established area with a good mix and density of bus. and res. One side of my city (suburb of a big city) is overloaded with new (less than 3 year old) homes and new retail. Some are really nice others are entry level. I did my preemployment doorknocking exercise here and about 75% have moved there in the last two years (before the housing bubble burst). So they're really feeling the mental pinch. On the other hand, and the hand I went with, is the more diverse side of town. Less retail but more prof. small bus. and alot of older established neighborhoods. It's not the current hot spot but the people here are the ones with the lake houses and are on the old golf course. Also, there are newer developments that have sprung up over the last ten years to fill the gaps. I felt it was more stable, offered a better diversity of res and small bus. Plus, the intersection just happened to be right outside my subdivision (one of the new ones). That means I can be door knocking (oh, i mean making face-to-face contacts ) and then be home in a couple minutes!Believe it or not, what you read is true. Making F2F contacts in an area where you live, possibly go to church, kids go to school, etc. is a HUGE advantage. The higher income areas also have increased competition. This is a forum, so I am just sharing my own personal experience with you. The rate of success is about 15%. There is about a 10% loss of FAs that don't pass the Series 7. Some KYC classes lose 50% of those during Field Foundations as you make F2F contacts. Between Eval/Grad and PDP, there is about another 50% loss.
This is also an industry where people are looking for any reason to sue you. You have to disclose everything, everything. A small mistake can kill you (or really hurt) even if it is made by your BOA.
It's been said here already, it's really difficult and no matter how much you read, you won't fully understand until you are in the middle of it.
Think of the beach at Normandy....
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