Cfp

I'm also in the process of taking courses through American College.  I'm disappointed I can't take in person because no one near me offers it.  Having recently graduated from college, I like the amount of overlap i've had.  While time consuming, I think it will pay off when I can put some sweet letters after my name.  Plus its all paid for by BofA with love.

What a waste of time.

I obtained my CFP 11 years ago and did not really think it did much for me at the time.  In hindsight it made me think differently than other advisors and that was priceless.  Also, in light of the changes in the industry I have to say that out of all the licenses and designations I have that is the one that is the one helping me out the most right now.  On that note, to all who are going for it or thinking about it, GO FOR IT!!

As long as you do not use it as an excuse to not sell it cannot hurt you to have it.

It's funny how those who don't have it think it's such a waste.

I've had mine for about five years and while I can't say it's made me a boatload of money directly, it has (1) helped with credibility, (2) got me a few larger accounts, and (3) helped me do a better job for my clients.  It's not going to sell for you, but it's a myth that CFPs are just small producers.  I've met plenty who are million$+.  I'm not a big producers by wirehouse standards, but my April gross is just over $39K thus far...and I get to keep 90% of it.

There are 6 CFP's in my office and I outproduce each of them (inlcuding Mr flag waving indy above).  They are analytical and can't produce to save their lives.  Your experience may vary of course.  I spent the time gathering assets instead of studying for a test.  For me, it worked.

I''m already doing my fair share of "producing", i'm just taking it a step farther.

I never pretended to be the big man on the hill, but if I were guessing, I would say that the average poster on this forum is not at $40K for April, especially not less than a third into the month.  Getting a CFP doesn't have to compete with getting assets as I doubt too many assets are gathered after 9pm at night.  Study then if you're a workaholic.

If you don't want an advanced designation, that's fine too.  I'm just not buying that getting a CFP hurts your ability to produce.  I think you have some people that get it because they can't produce and are hoping it will help them in that regard.  In this business, if you can't sell, the CFP will not cure that.

[quote=Ronnie Dobbs]

I start my CFP coursework in 2 weeks. Jones gave me an exception to go ahead with the CFP instead of the AAMS. Pretty excited....

[/quote]

A close friend of mine is a CFP who does in the neighborhood of $4,000,000 gross per year. He is a founding member of a large team. 3 of them are CFP's. The $4MM gross is only his. The team has a planning focus and as a unit they do about $13MM t-12. i am definately not saying that they put out these numbers because or even partly because, of their designation. But there has always been an undertone on this board that CFP's are generally pikers who don't know how to build a business, and thats bullshit. I know plenty of CFP's who are pikers and I know plenty who are Million plus producers.

I'm a CFP, not a million dollar producer. (i dont have to be, because I'm indie so at $500k i make more than a million gross does at a wire.). But there is no doubt in my mind that a lot of my clients (not all)  look at me differently because of it. I'm sure there are plenty of non CFP folks on the boards who are as good or even better planners than me (well, not better). But guess what - in our business, perception is reality.

One more thing - anyone who doesnt think a CPA places no value on a CFP designation when considering where to refer, is a fool.

I get a kick out of guys who never took the CFP who say it is worthless.  How would they know?  If you never sat in a meeting and talked to a client about the value of the CFP and seen their reaction you have no idea the value.  I believe the CFP helps me close business because I am a sales person first with the CFP, and I know how to sell the CFP to clients and prospects.  I agree 100% if a guy is analytical with no sales skills the CFP will not help close a whole lot of business, but if you are a producer the CFP will help.

Besides, how can getting any education be a waste of time when you’re professional is all about knowledge and being able to articulate it to clients?  Take the test then tell me it’s a waste of time, some people do and I respect that opinion but not from someone who has not done it.  If PremierAdvisor had ever picked up a book before he would also realize a sample size of six small time advisors in his office is not exactly a compelling argument. 

What the CFP did for me was to be trained to see what clients need in  a unbiased way, versus being trained to sell products!

[quote=Sportsfreakbob]

A close friend of mine is a CFP who does in the neighborhood of $4,000,000 gross per year. He is a founding member of a large team. 3 of them are CFP's. The $4MM gross is only his. The team has a planning focus and as a unit they do about $13MM t-12. i am definately not saying that they put out these numbers because or even partly because, of their designation. But there has always been an undertone on this board that CFP's are generally pikers who don't know how to build a business, and thats bullshit. I know plenty of CFP's who are pikers and I know plenty who are Million plus producers.

I'm a CFP, not a million dollar producer. (i dont have to be, because I'm indie so at $500k i make more than a million gross does at a wire.). But there is no doubt in my mind that a lot of my clients (not all)  look at me differently because of it. I'm sure there are plenty of non CFP folks on the boards who are as good or even better planners than me (well, not better). But guess what - in our business, perception is reality.

One more thing - anyone who doesnt think a CPA places no value on a CFP designation when considering where to refer, is a fool.

[/quote]

I just started an RIA practice in conjunction with a regional CPA firm.  When I made my pitch the first thing out of their collective mouths was whether I was a CFP designate.  I was able to get the deal done (money talks), but I think if I was just asking for referrals, I would definitely have hit a stone wall.

[quote=Ronnie Dobbs]

I start my CFP coursework in 2 weeks. Jones gave me an exception to go ahead with the CFP instead of the AAMS. Pretty excited....

[/quote]

I call BEE ESS!

Experience
Because CFP® certification indicates to the public your ability to provide financial planning without supervision, CFP Board requires you to have experience in the financial planning process. Three years of full-time relevant personal financial planning experience is required.

The CFP board allowes for people to sit for the exam, you just can't use the designation until you have the 3 years experience.  I know several people I took the classes with that passed the exam but had to wait unitl they earned more work experience.

Windy, is Jones paying for the whole thing or just allowing you to work on the CFP instead of the AAMS out of your own pocket?

What about the CLU and ChFC?  I've heard the combination is more in depth and valuable with regards to production as the CFP --

[quote=LA Broker]

Windy, is Jones paying for the whole thing or just allowing you to work on the CFP instead of the AAMS out of your own pocket?

[/quote]

Jones is paying for it. The AAMS is required to move to Segment 4. I was in the middle of the AAMS, called home office because I had a question. When I called, i was told that because of my production, that I was wasting my time with the AAMS and they wanted me to start the CFP course and drop the AAMS. They called my regional leader and someone else, and gave me special permission.

To Everyone Else - I'll have been working for Jones for 2 years in a few months. By the time I'm done with the course and sit for the exam, i'll have the 3 years.

The CFFP does not state that you need to have three years experience to sit for the CFP exam.  ANYONE can sit for the exam (if they have taken an approved study course).  3 years experience is a requirement to earn your certification.  Just like a Bachelors degree and the education requirements.

It's similar to how the CPA works.  You can take the exam, but are not a licensed CPA until you fulfill your 3 years (which actually varies by state).

[quote=gettingstarted]

What about the CLU and ChFC?  I've heard the combination is more in depth and valuable with regards to production as the CFP --

[/quote]

I think someone lied to you. The CLU/ChFC requires two more American College classes which anyone with an IQ above room temp can knock out in short order. What makes the CFP unique is the requirement to pass the 2 day, 10 hour capstone exam, an exam with a 50% pass rate. It proves that, at least during the period of the exam, you've mastered the material and can apply it,  that you haven't just "spec and dumped" the info as you can with the prereq classes.

I can tell you from 10+ yrs experience in the industry, the CFP makes a HUGE difference for clients. As a CFP, you approach the client's total situation, find gaps in their plan, and then advise on intial steps, continuing to deepen the client relationship and expand the products and services through the relationship.If you aren't an AAMS at a minimum, you a just a broker. To clients, you are sales, sales, sales. Keep smiling and dialing for the next transaction.

As an AAMS or CFP, you demonstrating competence beyond brokering, and clients experience a difference in your approach. Invest in yourself and your skills, clients will invest in you.

Bottom line: CPAs or Attorneys do not refer to series 7 brokers, they refer to competent, experienced advisors. Client invest with advisors, transact with brokers. Build a balanced biz doing both, and I promise your biz will grow.

Well you have me convinced now.  I'm going to sign up for a CFP class.

How quickly can one reasonably get through the coursework?  If you did the self-paced studying, is 6-9 months too quick?  I have typically heard 18 months.

depends on your area...someplaces have online or classroom courses which take 18months, which I did..

others offer executive certificates that can be doen in 9 months..but those usually require you go 4 hours a night, once a week, for 9 months straight..

Florida State offers a good online program, self paced, reasonably priced (5-6k)..I did in in 24 months, passed the exam the first time.

go to cfp.net, search for approved course providers

[quote=careerFA]

depends on your area...someplaces have online or classroom courses which take 18months, which I did..

others offer executive certificates that can be doen in 9 months..but those usually require you go 4 hours a night, once a week, for 9 months straight..

Florida State offers a good online program, self paced, reasonably priced (5-6k)..I did in in 24 months, passed the exam the first time.

go to cfp.net, search for approved course providers

[/quote]

I am familiar witht he providors, process, etc.  I am just curious though, for the ones that offer self-paced learning (versus the online classroom style), would 6-9 months be enough time?  I have a very busy life (kids, work, , etc.), and I would rather bust a nut for 7 or 8 months, rather than stretch the thing over 2 years.

I realize the AAMS does not really compare too well, but I passed that with virtually no studying at all.  I would need to look at the materials and see how new some of the concepts would be for me. 

4 hours a week for nine months really isn't all that bad when you really think about it. 

Right, 4 hours a week would be cake.  But my point is, would that be enough study time to pass the tests?  I have heard they estimate 100 hours of study time per course (6 courses), so that would be 600 hours of study time, 8-10 hours per week,  that's where the 12-18 months comes from.  I'm just curious if anyone has squeezed it into 6-9 months.

you can pass the AAMS based on industry experience, that won't cut it on the CFP....The material is deep, the topics tested are broad, you can complete the 9 mo program, and study like a bandit for 3 months and get done in a year. High rate of failure there, that's why only 40% pass the first time through.

Take your time, absord the material, it will serve you well in your career. Its the gold standard for sales and financial planning..the CHfc and CLU are more insurance focused...

when's the last time a Chfc explained alpha or helped you put-call collar a concentrated equity position? They didn't, they tried to sell you a VUL

A CFP should be the bare minimum in this industry. i love it when I position a letter of engagement with a client and they looked puzzled. "Why are you asking me all these questions when my broker doesn't"

Oh, and before anyone says anything, yes, CFP's can sell!

[quote=Mr.Blonde]

A CFP should be the bare minimum in this industry. i love it when I position a letter of engagement with a client and they looked puzzled. "Why are you asking me all these questions when my broker doesn't"

[/quote]

I've gotten that response a ton and I don't have, nor ever plan on, sitting for the CFP.  Why should I be forced to study for something I don't need and my clients don't care about?

[quote=Mr.Blonde]

Oh, and before anyone says anything, yes, CFP's can sell!

[/quote]

But generally, they don't.

[quote=deekay]

[quote=Mr.Blonde]

Oh, and before anyone says anything, yes, CFP's can sell!

[/quote]

But generally, they don't.

[/quote]

No they don't have too the client understands the need.

That is the difference between a sales clerk and a professional.

Only 60,000 people in the United States have a CFP. Every client i have that walks in my door, knows what it is and has respect for it. If it does anything, it separates you from every other broker/advisor who is trying to sell them something. They honestly believe you aren't just trying to sell any old investment to them....Thats my experience...

By the way....Almost Seg 4 ladies.....

Remind me what the seg 4 rolling average is?

Your can sell was Dec 15th 2008. That puts you at LOS = 16 months. I think seg 4 is 27k-ish for 4 month rolling. Not sure if there is an LOS requirement. If all this is true and you acquire your CFP, which you will not "technically" be able to use for 20 months, you should seriously think of going out on your own. I think Jones may hold you back. Have they decided to offer you LP yet?

p.s. congrats

I got shot down when asked about the ChFC...  the ChFC requires the exact same courses as the CFP plus 3 more electives.  Why is it not more complete designation - the test?  Seems the CFP has just been branded better to the consumer...

[quote=N.D.]

Your can sell was Dec 15th 2008. That puts you at LOS = 16 months. I think seg 4 is 27k-ish for 4 month rolling. Not sure if there is an LOS requirement. If all this is true and you acquire your CFP, which you will not "technically" be able to use for 20 months, you should seriously think of going out on your own. I think Jones may hold you back. Have they decided to offer you LP yet?

p.s. congrats

[/quote]If that's all true, it's impressive as hell and yes, you'll probably outgrow Jones sooner than later.

Of course, we all know you can say anything on the internet...;-)

[quote=N.D.]

Your can sell was Dec 15th 2008. That puts you at LOS = 16 months. I think seg 4 is 27k-ish for 4 month rolling. Not sure if there is an LOS requirement. If all this is true and you acquire your CFP, which you will not "technically" be able to use for 20 months, you should seriously think of going out on your own. I think Jones may hold you back. Have they decided to offer you LP yet?

p.s. congrats

[/quote]

Thanks. Yes it is all true. I have about a year until i can actually test for the CFP and use the designation. Thats why they wanted me to go ahead with the studying, because the CFP coursework takes roughly a year to complete. Once i'm done with the coursework and take a few weeks to review I should be sitting at 3 years exactly.

As far as LP, I have not been offered any. I've been volunteering alot with things such as College Recruiting and doing interviews, etc...Not sure if I will get LP or not. Probably not, but oh well.

Does Jones do financial planning? What do you see as the greatest benefit of the CFP? Does Jones let their IRs charge for planning fees? I was under the impression you guys could charged commish for products sold and recently added some fee based accounts, what about any other sources of income? Can you charge planning fees, hourly, retainers? What about away accounts such as a 401k or discount brokerage account that allows option trading since Jones does not?

The greatest benefit of the CFP is the marketing aspect.  Clients and COI's generally view it is the standard in the industry in terms of designations (regardless of that as a fact). 

Unfortunately, the whole CFP process is very self-serving to the CFP community.  It started as a "good ole boys" designation.  It used to be easy to get - you just took the courses - no exam.  Well, the good ole boys decided that in order to keep their "club" exclusive, they would implement the exam to keep people out.

On top of that, much of the content REQUIRES you to take the courses.  You literally CAN'T pass the exams, regardless of how good you are or how much you know, because some of the content is CFP Board "opinion".  In other words, it's "their" accepted methodologies.  Personally, I don't agree with all of their methodologies. 

I think you can become a "GREAT" planner/advisor through self-education.  There are so many resources out there to teach you the best way to do things, and as we all know, there are literally a thousand different ways to come to the same answer (i.e. solving your client's financial needs/objectives).  You don't need to spend $4000 on courses and exams in order to implement the financial planning "wheel".

Full disclosure, I plan on getting my CFP, as it is the industry standard.  It is purely for marketing purposes.  I just don't think it will really help me do a better job with my clients.

[quote=B24]

Right, 4 hours a week would be cake.  But my point is, would that be enough study time to pass the tests?  I have heard they estimate 100 hours of study time per course (6 courses), so that would be 600 hours of study time, 8-10 hours per week,  that's where the 12-18 months comes from.  I'm just curious if anyone has squeezed it into 6-9 months.

[/quote]

I think it would depend on the individual.  I coasted through my Series 7 study program, logged half the recommended study time and scored a 96.  Then again, I had a BBA in Finance and 15 years in financial industry experience going for me.  While I am in no way implying that these two tests are comparable, I would think that the same concept applies.

Also, if you are going to do it, do it now!  They are about to tack an additonal 40 hours to the study requirements starting in 2012.

[quote=joelv72]

Also, if you are going to do it, do it now!  They are about to tack an additonal 40 hours to the study requirements starting in 2012.

[/quote]

So, you're basically admitting the CFP is for marketing purposes and NOT for the knowledge one will gain.  Yet more confirmation why the CFP should NOT be a required designation.

Joel,

I agree, I know that they are increasing the requirements in 2 years.  One of the reasons I want to do it now.

So I will repeat the question...

Does Jones do financial planning? What do you see as the greatest benefit of the CFP to a Jones IR? I was under the impression you guys could charged commish for products sold and recently added some fee based accounts, what about any other sources of income? Can you charge planning fees, hourly, retainers? What about away accounts such as a 401k or discount brokerage account that allows option trading since Jones does not?

[quote=deekay]

[quote=joelv72]

Also, if you are going to do it, do it now!  They are about to tack an additonal 40 hours to the study requirements starting in 2012.

[/quote]

So, you're basically admitting the CFP is for marketing purposes and NOT for the knowledge one will gain.  Yet more confirmation why the CFP should NOT be a required designation.

[/quote]

The 40 extra hours are not really educational in nature.  From what I have read, it is this industry's version of clinicals.  If you have been doing this for a while, WTF do you need that for?

[quote=N.D.]

So I will repeat the question...

Does Jones do financial planning? What do you see as the greatest benefit of the CFP to a Jones IR? I was under the impression you guys could charged commish for products sold and recently added some fee based accounts, what about any other sources of income? Can you charge planning fees, hourly, retainers? What about away accounts such as a 401k or discount brokerage account that allows option trading since Jones does not?

[/quote]

We use Sungard Fianncial Planning Suite.  So yes, we offer financial planning, but cannot charge for it like a fee-only planner.  It is basically used in conjunction with implementing the plan for either fees or commissions, like most wirehouses.

Ok so how many ways can Jones produce income? I assume it only comes with a transaction or advice fee on AUM. What are all the various ways a Jones guy can produce income?

ND, not sure what you don't understand.  We are just like all the wirehouses...commissions and/or fees for investments, insurance & annuities, CD's, etc., banking products, mortgages, etc. 

The only thing we can't do is charge a "planning fee".  Wish we could, but we can't.  But I don't think most of the wires or major B/D's (other than Ameriprise) do that anyway.

I have no idea what the wires do so I cannot compare them to you guys.

Can you all do 401k plans? Do you count that as AUM in the office or out? One of the advantages we have at Ameriprise is the fact we can charge for planning, therefore we can pretty much charge for advice with practically anything as a goal. Several of our clients have away accounts that cannot be transferred in nor can we become broker of record. For these clients we have a planning relationship letting us provide advice on away accounts.

At the end of the day, I am trying to get an idea of all the ways an FA can generate revenue and which firms will let them run a business using a majority if not all of these ways. I think Ameriprise may have a broader range of possibilities but I do not know every business model. If you know of a list I would appreciate you pointing me in that direction. But for know I am just asking.

Windy,
17 months is the fastest POSSIBLE to hit seg 4
5 in new
4 in 1
4 in 2
4 in 3
and then to hit seg 4 your gross for the last 4 months would have had to have been over 108k.
You are 16 months in yet you said 2 years. Unlicensed training doesn’t count. You are either full of it, or I expect to see a bronze statue of you next time I’m in StL

The question is:  what are you looking to accomplish with this "financial plan"?

[quote=skljkajdsj]Windy, 17 months is the fastest POSSIBLE to hit seg 4 5 in new 4 in 1 4 in 2 4 in 3 and then to hit seg 4 your gross for the last 4 months would have had to have been over 108k. You are 16 months in yet you said 2 years. Unlicensed training doesn't count. You are either full of it, or I expect to see a bronze statue of you next time I'm in StL[/quote]

Who cares?  He's doing well, and half the time I don't know exactly how many months I've been in business, I just blurt something out.  So 14, 16, 24, who cares.  Maybe he's already hitting seg 4 numbers and is just waiting for the month that he qualifies.

[quote=Ronnie Dobbs] 

By the way....Almost Seg 4 ladies.....

[/quote]

Maybe Jones does hire people who can't read.....Thats ok though. I reposted it for you..I said ALMOST Seg 4.....Regardless...I'll be there

The CFP board has won the marketing war in many ways.  The American College is doing better, but the CFP is way ahead right now.

Here's the rub:

 - Do you want to VOLUNTARILY submit to another SRO?

 - The new requirements require that you submit a financial plan prior to certification as a CFP.  Now, do you think that you do planning that will pass the smell test of the CFP board?  Do you think they're SMART enough to recognize a good plan when they see one?

The CFP has been marketed as an INVESTMENT designation.  But the investment module is the same between CFP and ChFC.  There is NO difference in the investment module between the two.  But the CFP is marketed to the investment firms while ChFC is marketed to insurance firms.  This is why the "ChFC will recommend a VUL" comment has some validity.

Neither will help you sell more as they don't have a marketing component.  They will BOTH help you to recognizeadditional opportunities to work with your prospects and clients.

Here's what a CFP is:  http://www.americanfenceassociation.com/Members/CertifiedFenceProfessional/tabid/99/Default.aspx

If you want a designation that will actually help you with sales skills and marketing, you'll want to check out the FSS from The American College.  The letters don't mean jack.  But the designation content will help you in a great deal.

duplicate post

I disagree that a CFP won't help you serve your clients. It helps you to take a step back, evaluate their total situation, and then propose solutions across a range of needs. Prior to having the CFP, I was transactional and feature-benefit dumping when making recommendations. Now, I develop a comprehesnive strategy that enables me to touch that client across investments, insurance, and education planning, enabling me to strengthen the relationship and make that client sticky.

If you go for the quick commish or transaction, you are leaving too much on the table. Clients value a CFP's approach. My practice took off when I started applying the CFP principles and my value proposition discussed the comprehesnive approach.

Get the CFP or get out of the industry, because the coming industry regulation will force your hand.

[quote=careerFA]

I disagree that a CFP won't help you serve your clients. It helps you to take a step back, evaluate their total situation, and then propose solutions across a range of needs. Prior to having the CFP, I was transactional and feature-benefit dumping when making recommendations. Now, I develop a comprehesnive strategy that enables me to touch that client across investments, insurance, and education planning, enabling me to strengthen the relationship and make that client sticky.

If you go for the quick commish or transaction, you are leaving too much on the table. Clients value a CFP's approach. My practice took off when I started applying the CFP principles and my value proposition discussed the comprehesnive approach.

Get the CFP or get out of the industry, because the coming industry regulation will force your hand.

[/quote]

I do all this and don't (and won't) get my CFP.  I run circles around the plans that many CFPs have dumped on my clients.  Does that make me less of a professional?  

I agree with Deekay.  I already do this.  The C FP financial planning process is nothing unique or mysterious.  Most firms preach the process anyway. 

I do agree with you that if you were previously just a transactional "broker", and want to learn how to become more of a "holistic" planner, their process and education gives you a great track to run on.  But many of us already adopt this process.

You may be right, though.  The industry is evolving, and eventually credentials may be required to some degree.

[quote=deekay]

[quote=careerFA]

I disagree that a CFP won't help you serve your clients. It helps you to take a step back, evaluate their total situation, and then propose solutions across a range of needs. Prior to having the CFP, I was transactional and feature-benefit dumping when making recommendations. Now, I develop a comprehesnive strategy that enables me to touch that client across investments, insurance, and education planning, enabling me to strengthen the relationship and make that client sticky.

If you go for the quick commish or transaction, you are leaving too much on the table. Clients value a CFP's approach. My practice took off when I started applying the CFP principles and my value proposition discussed the comprehesnive approach.

Get the CFP or get out of the industry, because the coming industry regulation will force your hand.

[/quote]

I do all this and don't (and won't) get my CFP.  I run circles around the plans that many CFPs have dumped on my clients.  Does that make me less of a professional?  

[/quote]

YES. Professionals have degrees and designations, doctors, lawyers, dentists. Get with it and adjust. Since you run circles aroud CFP's, passing the exam should be a cinch.

[quote=Mr.Blonde]

[quote=deekay]

[quote=careerFA]

I disagree that a CFP won't help you serve your clients. It helps you to take a step back, evaluate their total situation, and then propose solutions across a range of needs. Prior to having the CFP, I was transactional and feature-benefit dumping when making recommendations. Now, I develop a comprehesnive strategy that enables me to touch that client across investments, insurance, and education planning, enabling me to strengthen the relationship and make that client sticky.

If you go for the quick commish or transaction, you are leaving too much on the table. Clients value a CFP's approach. My practice took off when I started applying the CFP principles and my value proposition discussed the comprehesnive approach.

Get the CFP or get out of the industry, because the coming industry regulation will force your hand.

[/quote]

I do all this and don't (and won't) get my CFP.  I run circles around the plans that many CFPs have dumped on my clients.  Does that make me less of a professional?  

[/quote]

YES. Professionals have degrees and designations, doctors, lawyers, dentists. Get with it and adjust. Since you run circles aroud CFP's, passing the exam should be a cinch.

[/quote]

As Gordon Ramsey has already stated, I don't want to become a member of another SRO.  It certainly isn't about passing a damn test.  If/when I so choose, I will go the CLU/ChFC route.  More comprehensive course load, more focused on what I enjoy (risk management), and limited politics.  

By the way, did you know the life insurance industry invented the concept of financial planning, and not the stock brokers of the world?  Seems to me I would be better off sticking with the original rather than a knock-off.

A professional is someone who possesses expert knowledge on a topic,  adheres to annual contiuning education and a code of conduct, and handles their clients with a fiduciary approach.

You are not less a professional, but your clients may not be viewing you as a professional. Perception is reality, no matter what circles you may be running.

The suitability standard is under tremendous pressure. Why would you not want your value proposition communicate the fiduciary approach to planning, or do you want to continue to be a Fabulous Fab and hunt widows and orphans?

Wait.....wasn't Bernie Madoff a fiduciary?  I fail to see how imposing the fiduciary standard will turn a crook in to a noble professional.  Either you have ethics or you don't.  It's that simple.

CFA, you are right, perception is reality.  That was my earlier point - the CFP is needed for many of us as a marketing tool, not a planning tool.

Madoff claimed his advisory business was incidental to his primary business as a market maker. A agree, ethics are everything, I'm just arguing that being a trsuted advisor with your clients requires an approach different than a suitability standard approach.

The CFP is not a marketing tool only. Its an established brand, known to clients. When you meet a prospect, they don't know you. Would you rather too the horn of the CFP or the horn of I'm FINRA RR....

I'm telling you, my business took off when I became a CFP. My approach was different, client perceptions changed.

CFA, I agree with you.  Perception goes a LONG way with clients.  My point was that having the LETTERS after your name made a bigger difference than the knowledge it gave you.

Little off topic, but since this thread is active I figured I would ask a related question.  I am planning to sit for the CFP this summer and have yet to order my study guides.  I will be doing the online and guides themselves (no time to dedicate to a week long crash course) and wondered which study guides are recommended.  Dalton, Kier, American College, others?

You're going to study for 2 months for the July sitting?  Pretty aggressive.  Good luck.

I'm a glutton for punishment.

[quote=gettingstarted]

I got shot down when asked about the ChFC...  the ChFC requires the exact same courses as the CFP plus 3 more electives.  Why is it not more complete designation - the test?  Seems the CFP has just been branded better to the consumer...

[/quote]

The American College prerequisites are easy. A reasonably smart chimp could pass them one by one and in the end, take away very little. Adding three more classes to that list means little. That's not the challenge.

The challenge is the comprehensive exam at the end of the CFP process that only has a 50% pass rate. (doesn’t say much about the prereqs, does it, if only 50% of the people that pass them can then pass the exam) THAT’S the big difference, you have to prove you’ve mastered the material and can apply it.

The whole “it’s a marketing designation” really sounds like the rallying cy of someone who knows they wouldn’t end up on the right side of that 50% pass rate.

double post, deleted

[quote=deekay]

[quote=Mr.Blonde]

Oh, and before anyone says anything, yes, CFP's can sell!

[/quote]

But generally, they don't.

[/quote]

That's just the sort of thing people who know they couldn't pass the exam say. Check the "Top 100 Independent" and "Top 100 Wirehouse" advisors lists, you'll see plenty of people with genuine professional designations after their names, like CFP.

[quote=Conrad Dobler]

[quote=deekay]

[quote=Mr.Blonde]

Oh, and before anyone says anything, yes, CFP's can sell!

[/quote]

But generally, they don't.

[/quote]

That's just the sort of thing people who know they couldn't pass the exam say. Check the "Top 100 Independent" and "Top 100 Wirehouse" advisors lists, you'll see plenty of people with genuine professional designations after their names, like CFP.

[/quote]

And I know of plenty professionals that make waaaaaaaaaaay more than folks like Ron Carson and Ira Walker and don't have the CFP.  What's your point?

My POV is the CFP do not help you sell. You can either sell or you cannot sell the CFP has nothing to do with it. What the CFP does do is give you credibility. This is not to say that you cannot be credible with out the CFP. I have my CFP, it has not made me a better sales man, but I do think that it has made me a better Financial Planner.

[quote=JackBlack]

My POV is the CFP do not help you sell. You can either sell or you cannot sell the CFP has nothing to do with it. What the CFP does do is give you credibility. This is not to say that you cannot be credible with out the CFP. I have my CFP, it has not made me a better sales man, but I do think that it has made me a better Financial Planner.

[/quote]

Nobody, myself included, is arguing against the education the CFP (or CLU/ChFC) offers.  What I am against is the CFP BoG lobbying to make the mark the entry level in this profession.  In my opinion, they want to become another SRO in the same vein as the SEC and FINRA.  And my opinion is that the CFP BoG has completely lost sight of their original values - as a center of knowledge.  

Hell, I may sit for the actual exam once I've finished my studies.  But as it stands, I will not use the mark.  I will gladly use (for now) the CLU/ChFC marks.  Although, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to move in on the territory the CFP BoG has already marked off.

[quote=deekay]

Hell, I may sit for the actual exam once I've finished my studies.  But as it stands, I will not use the mark.  I will gladly use (for now) the CLU/ChFC marks. [/quote]

It couldn't be clearer, you realize you couldn't pass the exam.

[quote=Conrad Dobler]

[quote=deekay]

Hell, I may sit for the actual exam once I've finished my studies.  But as it stands, I will not use the mark.  I will gladly use (for now) the CLU/ChFC marks. [/quote]

It couldn't be clearer, you realize you couldn't pass the exam.

[/quote]

At this point, no.  I haven't finished the material.  Which is to say I need to revisit it.  When prepared, would I pass the exam?  Abso-fecking-lutely.

By the way, congrats on your CFP.  You're qualified to do the same exact sh1t I do.  Toast yourself, Corky.  You must be very proud.

[ To the admin - it seems when you post then edit, the original post stays on the board as a double post. Which this was before i edited

[quote=careerFA]

Madoff claimed his advisory business was incidental to his primary business as a market maker. A agree, ethics are everything, I'm just arguing that being a trsuted advisor with your clients requires an approach different than a suitability standard approach.

The CFP is not a marketing tool only. Its an established brand, known to clients. When you meet a prospect, they don't know you. Would you rather too the horn of the CFP or the horn of I'm FINRA RR....

I'm telling you, my business took off when I became a CFP. My approach was different, client perceptions changed[/quote]

What you are saying is that the CFP IS a marketing tool. "Thats what creating an established brand, known to clients", is - its marketing.

My opinion is that it is both. I think there is a lot in the CFP curriculum that you have to learn, that most RR's will never use. Unless i am a fee only planner, i am not talking to any of my clients about 1260 properties, or other such bullshit. But it does give you a pretty deep knowledge about tax concepts, estate planning, investing (MPT) and how they all meld together and are all related.

At the same time, its a marketing tool, because as was said already, perception is reality.

I have the CFP, i am glad i got it, but i know what it is and what it isnt.

Question for CareerFA - what did you do, in terms of marketing AND creating a process, to leverage your CFP Designation that helped you get growth that you might otherwise not have gotten.

[quote=deekay]

[quote=Conrad Dobler]

[quote=deekay]

Hell, I may sit for the actual exam once I've finished my studies.  But as it stands, I will not use the mark.  I will gladly use (for now) the CLU/ChFC marks. [/quote]

It couldn't be clearer, you realize you couldn't pass the exam.

[/quote]

At this point, no.  I haven't finished the material.  Which is to say I need to revisit it.  When prepared, would I pass the exam?  Abso-fecking-lutely.

By the way, congrats on your CFP.  You're qualified to do the same exact sh1t I do.  Toast yourself, Corky.  You must be very proud.

[/quote]

Wow, the lack of confidence thing is going to do you in.

Pass the exam, then you can tell me what you're qualified or not to do.

In response to sports-freak bob:

Previosu to the CFP, I was transactional. Once I completed the program, I turned all my transactional clients into fee based, explaining the benefits, and then began to see more referrals from existing clients due to a comprehensive approach.

The CFP was a tool to leverage my business and develop my client base more effectively. I never marketed it per se, it just happened to increase my business. The CFP board does the marketing, I do the planning.