Career Changer Here

No…It will take you at least 5 years to replace your income. 5 UGLY MOFO years!!! Stay in IT!

I SAY GO FOR IT.  If the temporary decline in income won’t kill you or anyone else who depends on you, then why stay in a career that you constantly are stressed over.  Not to say you won’t be stressed and work harder that you ever have in your life as an advisor.  You have to have a passion for being an advisor and the willingness to persist unrelentlessly.  If you really want it, you’ll do what it takes and live with temporary pain.  I’m in your exact position also.  I’m changing career and my income will go from $90K to maybe about $40K.  Its going to depend on the wirehouse, which I’m still waiting to hear from.  Plan for this significant change carefully, work hard and the rewards will be worth it.

There is probably no good reason you would be happy in this business, unless you have a unique situation that will create some regular inflows of money. Do you really want to call people all day and night, and beg to explain why you are the guy who can solve there financial concerns. Dude...it is a painful process, I know I must sound like Mr. negative, But it's not a real exciting business. Iv'e said it before, if you were able to get into a situation where you were Doing a sweet Goodnight program through Jones or taking over a book, or have some fairly passive way to make money, I would say DO IT! To try and prospect and build a book that will pay you any money,....It just takes a long long time. The guys you may hear of or know who make alot of money in this business (A LOT = $300,000 yr or more)have either paid dues for a long time, fell into a good situation, or had a niche that may not necessarilly work for you. And if an income of $150,000 is "good enough for you" There are a hell of alot easier ways to make that than in this biz.

I know I know, there will be responses that will argue this, but if you ask MOST guys who are in the business 2,3,4 or 5 years, honestly?!?!?, I think they would tell you the same thing.  

BTW, Door knocking sucks. If you live in Mayberry, and you and your wife were the homecomming King and Queen, and your daddy is a minister on sundays at the local church,(and he also runs the family hardware store) and your mom is the #1 real estate agent in town -again this year, and oh yea.... you saved the towns number one citizen from drowning when you were 17.......OK Maybe you will get enough clients over a few years to matter. If your in a busy area with competition, and don't really know anyone.....your screwed!

Your is you’re not your - jeeeeeeeeez

huh?

I believe D Gaddy meant:  “…your screwed!” should be “…you’re screwed!” as you’re=you are.  But I believe we all got yore point–that it’s a bia o tch to survive in this bi-ness.  On a happier note, it’s not that hard to thrive (relatively to the avg job) if you survive.

Are you comfortable with the prospecting method?  Door to door?  25 names a day and 125 a week entered into a computer system?  If you want to build your business the way you think is best, try Raymond James.

I am very comfortable knocking on someone’s door, or going into a business and introducing myself. I just never got enough results in 18 months of doing it, to keep me interested. At some point…you have to get to eat the carrott.

Thanks everyone, just feeling so confused.

I guess I will try the door2door for the survey part just to see for
myself if could do it.  However the money thing is a big issue,
you folks seem to tell it like it is (good thing) however reading and
talking to some folks they made it seem like I would probably be making
150k in my second year. 



Knocking on doors I don’t think that will happen



Money is an issue now because I am 40ish, 2 kids (6&3) a wife and a MTG.



whew, I am glad I found this board though.



Will keep you guys posted if you like



spetropo

With your given situation, you will not make 150k your second
year.  Very few make anything even remotely close to that. 
Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you. 



You can do whatever you want, but the only reason I am even trying this
is because I am 23 years old and can live off scraps, work 14 hour
days, and still have the energy to go out at night and pick up some
females



I don’t think I could manage the stress of trying to support a family
as a struggling FA.  If you can pull it off you are a better man
than I. 



From what I have seen in my office, the older trainees (40+) are having a much harder time than the others. 

Scorpio is dead on. I have a buddy who is with Jone 10 years now, makes all the trips, has some LP, is a pretty dilligent guy,....he makes about 150k per year, and it aint smooth! It's 40 gross for one month or two, then 15 gross, or 10, then 25 gross. ANYONE who is telling you 150K in 2 years, is either trying to recruit you, or is not in the business. I do know a Jones guy who probably made 150k in his 3 rd year,......he also started with 40 million AUM, has an existing office in Jones town  USA.

I started in the business 3 1/2 yrs ago, I'm 38 w/ 2 kids, It is very difficult to switch into this career in your late 30's (if I had to make the decision again at 35, I would not do it, i do wish I started 15 years ago). I look around at guys in my firm who are 2-3 yrs younger than me, they have been here for 15 years and are making $500,000 yr. talk about a frustrating situation. The good thing is, if your young, and you can survive, the payoff is truly 2nd to none!!!

Please, PM me if you want to go further into discussion.

It makes my blood boil when I here of managers or recruiters inflating the numbers. People are making life altering decisions based on info they gather, and when a Jones guy who needs to get a couple of hires to make a diversification trip, tells a 40 year old guy w/ 2 kids making 90K, that he will be at 150K in year 2, that's BS. It's no different than if I told a client to expect 50% returns in the market.

I will wrap up with this. Once you get to a point in this career, where you are making enough money to comfortably pay your bills month in and month out, you can begin to build a more ideal book, and you can look to increase your business by 10, 20, 30 percent a year. At least at this point you are not desperate, and the big number will come, down the road. At that point, I don't know of too many ventures, businesses or professions, where you can work 30 hours per week, make 250K plus, not get phone calls at night or on weekends (Yea Realtors are making tons of dough lately, but they are a slave to the clients schedule). But to get there,.....you will be entering a profession where you are dealing with the thing that is nearest and dearest to peoples hearts......THERE MONEY!!!!! It's not like selling a service, product, pharmaceuticals, or widgets, you know,... if you sell widgets, you are presenting to people all day that need to buy widgets,..it's alittle easier. In our career, we are constantly approaching people who are not in the market for our service. It just is NOT an easy thing to get people to hand over the reins to their finances, and it's perfectly understandable.  

With your given situation, you will not make 150k your second year.  Very few make anything even remotely close to that.  Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you. 

You can do whatever you want, but the only reason I am even trying this is because I am 23 years old and can live off scraps, work 14 hour days, and still have the energy to go out at night and pick up some females

I don’t think I could manage the stress of trying to support a family as a struggling FA.  If you can pull it off you are a better man than I. 

From what I have seen in my office, the older trainees (40+) are having a much harder time than the others. 

I have to disagree loud and clear.

Many firms will not hire the 20 somethings.  They have no past work relationships, neighborhood relationships, wealthy friends, etc.  They have to cold call to bring in clients becauser they have no networks - - and so they fail.

If you are 40 with kids, you probably already have 1000s warm relationships (or you should if you are thinking about starting in this business).

I think it is tough for someone in their early 20s out of college to get a 401k rollover (or any account) from someone.

Maybeeee must be young,

It's not so much the age / experience thing. The issue for me, and I am guessing spetropo, is I came from a career (Business owner) where I was actually making pretty decent money, but like any ambitious guy I wanted more. Where I was making 100 - 125 and working crazy hours, I saw my friends in the financial businesses (Leasing, wholesaling and brokers working reasonable hours, and making 250 + ). For the past 3 years I have made 40,000 - 50,000. It's frkn painful. At 38, with 2300 mortgage and 2 kids That obviously cannot continue. And like I said before, being surrounded by guys your own age making 5 - 10 times what you are.....bites.

The fact that somone is older, and has contacts from prior experience  does not make a significant difference. They see you in a new career. "Oh yea, Joe works for ML now, let's roll our SB account over to him" NOT.

We have hired at least 6 college grads and 23 yr olds into the ML POA program within the last year, so the big firms do hire younger people. This group is used to not making money, so a salary of $30,000 is an increase to them. I actually believe it is a little easier for them to get by financially. But you are right, it is hard for younger people to gain trust amongst prospects. It is not easy for anyone....who is building the business from scratch.

Not young.  MBA in Finance.  Years in a financial position at a big firm.  It has not been a hard transition for me.  BUT, I have always treated EVERYONE with respect.  I am in general, just a nice person, good friend, good neighbor, good employee, you name it.  People like me and I like people.  They trust me.

If you can say the same, join the business, the rewards are great.  If not, you are wasting your time.

That doesn't mean I can sit back.  I still prospect my butt off.

Most problems in this business are from a lack of prospecting.

Oh, just for the record, I think knocking on doors stinks!!!!!!

Let Ed Jones have at it.  It is NOT one of the major prospecting methods at Raymond James.  I mean it is your business and you can do that if you want, but no one tells you how you must prospect.  You find the best fit for you.

Face to face is best for me.

Moneyadvisor,



It is kinda funny how my situation is similar to what yours was, WOW.

This door knocking thing with EDJ has me so bummed, everyone I talk to
and ask them the “what would you if I knocked on your door” question
basically tells me that they would close the door right back up. 
These are people that I know so I can imagine that the folks that I do
not know maybe will slam the door rather than close it :).  I have
talked to a few other folks at SSB and MS and nothing has come up
yet.  Funny thing though, my broker/friend left Morgan last week
and went to Bear Sterns.  Maybe I can get an in at Bear Sterns.



Gonna keep trying, may even try the door thing for the survey just to
prove to myself that I could (i think LOL).  It is also the money
now, I have enough cash and with the EDJ 1st year salary to hold us at
around my current take home salary.  Originally from talking to
EDJ and thinking I can make 150 in the second year, 90 would even be
good, I figured I was golden.  Howeve, Thankfully to some of the
post here I can 't see the promised salary possible in such a short
time. 



Thanks so much to all of you folks. Will keep you posted if you like



Thanks again

Wow great posts.  Thanks..

Sounds like a diverse networked 29er is the right age. :)

There are a lot of "nice guys" who have come into the business.....and then failed out. Most of the succcessful brokers in my office are actually miserable pricks! Go figure?

Door knocking, I have done a ton of it,...I can count on one hand the number of people who were nasty to me, it's not that!!  It just takes forever to build a relationship this way, before you actually turn a door knock prospect into a client!!!

Spetropo - If Jones was offering you a Goodnight, or you had a potentially profitable future arrangement in the investment business,....I would say doit!!, but as a scratch broker...to build your own book?.....It takes a long time.

It is also the money now, I have enough cash and with the EDJ 1st year salary to hold us at around my current take home salary.  Originally from talking to EDJ and thinking I can make 150 in the second year, 90 would even be good, I figured I was golden.  Howeve, Thankfully to some of the post here I can 't see the promised salary possible in such a short time.

One of the things you need to know is how the payout structure of Jones actually works.  Sure, you might be able to gross 150K in your second year, but the key word here is gross.  Net is a different story.  Your payout of the gross will be something like 35% and from that you will also be responsible for some of the ordinary office expenses such as postage, advertising, office supplies, toner. Then there is the fact that your health insurance is not subsidized in any way by Jones. Given the size of your family expect to spend at least $600.00 a month. You will be paying full boat on that.  Subtract the payroll taxes and other expenses, your net net is going to be more like 15 - 20%.   That 150K begins to look more like at best 30K.  Please do the math for yourself!!!

The other thing you need to know is, that although they say you will get bonuses after a profitable office, the cards are severely stacked against you in becoming profitable.  Deducted from your p/l is not only the cost of your BOA (assistant) salary and benefits, your benefits and payout are also deducted from profit. The more you make the more they deduct. I have never seen such a screwy system and I was a commercial lending officer for years before switching careers so I have seen some screwed up bookkeepping systems in my time. There are other charges on the p/l such as sattelite, rent, donations for national advertising and the list goes on.  You have no control over these expenses as you would if you were truely running the office as you see fit. 

Door knocking is their way of getting you launched.  Throw you into the pool, so to speak, and see if you can sink or swim. I know many Jones people who do not door knock after their initial years.  They really don't care how you make the money as long as you make it. So, that really  isn't much of an issue.

If you have a good cushion of reserves to last you for several years and you can make a go of it, then as many can attest, Jones can be a good starting point for a longer career.  Many ex Jonesers, like myself, have gone on to independent offices with firms like LPL, Raymond James, and other smaller idependent companies.  There are hundreds of them out there.

One last word of advice.  In the beginning, this career will just eat up your time. All of it.  Family time is going to take a hit and if your wife and kids aren't able to cope with this, the stress can be very bad for your marriage.

BL makes a good point about Gross vs. Net. I think the bottom line for you, is to BE CAREFUL. Especially when you have a family, and you are leaving a good paying job. i'm not crazy about the idea of you relying on back up resources to supplement your first few years (I sold a company when I started, and have exhausted my savings).

 I would  decide A) Do you want to be an investment professional, or are you choosing this career for its lucrative nature. B) What income level would you be satisfied at, if you never made more. Finally, this really is a great career, and the service we provide is greatly needed (and always will be), it's just extremely tough in the beginning. Sometimes it seems like Everbody is a financial Advisor. Everyone you talk to pretty much will be already working with someone, or their sister works for the bank, or they do it themselves........People don't know you or trust you.

Hello,



Everyone, I have been getting calls from my recruiter asking me if I
set up my face to face.  It looks as if I will probably end the
process today.  Taking a huge cut in salary to a very iffy
increase even with a 2 year outlook would be a significant strain on my
family life.  Combine this with the given, that quality family
time would be very limited already with a change into this career.



I will keep looking and would still like to get into the financial
service business.  I also do not think I can do the residential
door 2 door knocking that EDJ requires.  I had attended a David
Lerner seminar and they were giving 75k a year during the first year
training, unfortunatly I lacked sales experience so they did not
consider me as workable candidate.



I really want to thank everyone here that helped and offered
advice.  I feel it was a blessing to come across these boards and
especially you folks before I had made a very big mistake.  I will
keep on plugging away so do not be suprised if I come back with more
questions soon.



Thank you all very very much

Spetropo

Spetropo -

I truly think you are making a good decision. If the circumstance were different, and you were going to inherit a book of business, I would say you had some opportunity. But, to start from scratch....I would not do it. Good luck!!

[quote=spetropo]Hello,

Everyone, I have been getting calls from my recruiter asking me if I set up my face to face.  It looks as if I will probably end the process today.  Taking a huge cut in salary to a very iffy increase even with a 2 year outlook would be a significant strain on my family life.  Combine this with the given, that quality family time would be very limited already with a change into this career.

I will keep looking and would still like to get into the financial service business.  I also do not think I can do the residential door 2 door knocking that EDJ requires.  I had attended a David Lerner seminar and they were giving 75k a year during the first year training, unfortunatly I lacked sales experience so they did not consider me as workable candidate.

I really want to thank everyone here that helped and offered advice.  I feel it was a blessing to come across these boards and especially you folks before I had made a very big mistake.  I will keep on plugging away so do not be suprised if I come back with more questions soon.

Thank you all very very much
Spetropo

[/quote]

Lerner sucks more than EdJones.  You're better off staying away from them....

Why are you not looking at the reputable houses like RayJay?  Go to their website and submit your resume.

Maybeeeee-

no matter where this guy goes, he is going to have a battle on his hands for the next 5 years. He is 40 w/ 2 kids making a decent living. I guess if he just absolutely loved this business (which most new people think they love stocks and bonds, and hate prospecting - that's why so many fail miserably, It's not that they can't manage money, it's that they can't bring in accounts, and produce), he could get licensed and do a part-time gig on the side, maybe as a fee based planner. Unless his dad is giving up his 100 million dollar book at a B/D I would pass on this opportunity. If you were single and 25......different story.

Regardless of the firm you are with, the ONLY guys I have ever seen, or heard of making a good amount of money quick ($125,000 + in 2 years or so) have a unique situation. I am not talking about chop shop, product pitchers either. I am sure there are a few 18 year old kids working for JT Moran, out in Long Island, slinging crap. I don't think Spetero is interested in that.

Spetropo,

Leaving a 90k job to get in this business in this bear market. You like inflicting Pain on yourself and more importantly your family???

HEED EVERY WORD MONEYADVISOR HAS SAID.

The emotional anguish I have put myself and my family thru has been terrible for the last two years since I have been in this business.



It’s a Very Low Probability business. Wife and two kids, I beg you to stay out until a roaring bull market.

Not a question of Who can do it or You can do it. Just a matter of how long your savings and fortitude will last.

Sonny

[quote=SonnyTheBull]Spetropo,
Leaving a 90k job to get in this business in this bear market. You like inflicting Pain on yourself and more importantly your family???
HEED EVERY WORD MONEYADVISOR HAS SAID.
The emotional anguish I have put myself and my family thru has been terrible for the last two years since I have been in this business.

It's a Very Low Probability business. Wife and two kids, I beg you to stay out until a roaring bull market.
Not a question of Who can do it or You can do it. Just a matter of how long your savings and fortitude will last.
Sonny[/quote]

This thread is very disconcerting for me.  So I'll pretend I didn't read it.

Yesterday I got an offer at ML that I am just about to accept.  I'll be leaving a $90K job, trying to support a wife and 2 kids and the office manager set a $30M AUM bogie in 2 years.

I think I'll grab a beer, go read the positive posts again, and reread Nick Murray's "The Excellent Investment Advisor".

No, don't do that.

Sit down and REALISTICALLY plan how you could bring in that amount of assets in two years.  At RJ it is 4M your first year and 10M your second.  Even we have a high fall out rate.

It is because people don't PROSPECT or that they prospect little fish.

If you have a plan, and lots of good prospects you will make it.

What kind of salary are they giving you?  What kind of payout will you get as a trainee?

Salary and bonus will be close enough to my past salary to keep the lights on.  Payout is standard ML trainee payout.  100% commission based at 19th month following go-live.

Rainmaker, I am just about to graduate from the Merill poa program. It's a great firm! first, be prepared.......if they are paying you close to 90K - You will be under the microscope! 30 million in 2 years......Unless you are rolling in the family trust account of 20 million, it's very unlikely.

It's hard to comprehend if you have not been in this business before. But,......sometimes, it does not matter how hard you work, or how optimistic you are, or how motivated........you can only accelerate the trust factor so much, before a prospect will hire you to manage their money. The dumbest people will resist you because they don't use rationale, and they don't trust you. The smart wealthy people (first of all have been prospected to death), and those that will talk to you, will wait 12 months to do anything. Of course, you will get some accounts, but 30 million is highly unlikely.......read some of the other posts, this subject has been discussed.

Again, I am thanking all here for the advice and opinions.  The
EDJ recruiter told me that they will close my file and no hard
feelings.  I guess maybe somewhere deep inside I had hoped for the
"hey Steve, we have an office with X amount of business already we
wanted you to take over".  But, I am back almost where I started
but not disappointed thanks to you guys.



I truly think I made the right decision with the help of the folks here
and wish you all the best.  I will be back should maybe another
offer comes down the pike.  I am curious though now to see how
long the EDJ guy in my area sticks it out since from what he told me
had been in the same boat.



Thanks all