Big Question

I think you’re ok.

[quote=nottheone]I also have been arrested 4 times.

No shot whatsoever.

Being arrested doesn’t imply guilt.
For example: A man has wife who is off her rocker…she throws herself down a flight of stairs and then calls the police claiming domestic abuse. The man gets arrested. Man did nothing wrong. Man beats the charges. Man still has an arrest record but no convictions.

Prato…that is why I think I should be given a shot. Granted, maybe that circumstance is a little extreme but it shows you can be arrested, have an arrest record, and do nothing wrong. I feel like my situations are a lot like this. A 4 time victim of my environment and circumstance. I always felt we should abide by the innocent until proven guilty aspect of the law.
Also, because a situation could have been avoided does not mean I’m guilty of committing the act. I just find it funny how being arrested and never convicted could hurt my chances(its not really funny but you get my point). That’s saying that because I was arrested, then I have some character issues that would make me a bad hire. I don’t get it.

But keep the replies coming, I appreciate ALL of your input.

Oh and I have only been put in handcuffs twice. The other two incidents were just notices to appear. (in reference to snaggs comment) Not that it matters I guess but just a little FYI.

Also, what if I am a more solid candidate than all the others? What if I am a person who would be an incredible asset to any one willing to hire me? I do not see the correlation between getting arrested w/ no convictions and being a less solid candidate. (do not get me wrong though, I do see a correlation between hiring someone who is irresponsible and worrying about the financial investment they will make on said candidate) I am not the one. That person is not me.

I have family and friends in this industry who are really successful (I know, who cares). My point being, what if I use them as references to attest to my character and integrity. Also, I know other successful professionals and such who would be more than willing to give a reference to any hiring manager attesting to the same. Would this have any impact?

Your taking the wife example far too literally…it was only meant to serve as a representation of what I meant when I said because you have been arrested does not mean you are guilty.

I just don’t understand what there is to explain. As a hiring manager, I would see this person (of course I’m biased) as an individual who has gotten the short end of the stick too many times. Nothing more, nothing less. Especially considering the nature of the charges anyway. These things happened in college, were fraternity related incidents, and there is nothing to suggest these are problems that I would find myself taking the heat for again anytime in the future.
I do agree however with your victims statement. My only problem hiring said person would be that fact that he allowed himself to be put in a situation that got himself arrested four times. That kind of person does not look like he has the ability to think on his feet and be savvy, something that is needed in this industry. I don’t think it would be a deal breaker for me though. (and I’m incredibly savvy but campus cops don’t care…they do what they want, how they want, and when they want-no remorse)

I feel almost as if I’m arguing with you and that really is not my intention. I understand your just trying to tell me how you feel about the situation. That is what I asked for and you did that, so thanks.
It just boggles my mind how some harmless things in college that never amounted to anything more than an arrest could be the reason why I am unable to fulfill what I had in mind when I set out for college to begin with.

Guys, I understand what your telling me. I also said nothing about not caring about the rules. I agree that rules should not be broken. However, being arrested is not necessarily indicative of rule breaking.
The fact remains that I got in trouble when I in fact was doing nothing wrong. The fact that I was not convicted on any of these charges is proof of that.
Like I said earlier, it seems like I will be labeled immediately, just by the fact I got arrested. So in essence, guilty until proven innocent.

Maybe that’s just how it works in this industry.

Joe…“would you like some fries with that?” Not necessary buddy. If this does not work out I can promise that I definitely won’t be
asking paper or plastic…or any other variation of the question that
those less educated, less intelligent, or in some cases less fortunate
will have to ask.
I worked my ass off in school and I did pretty well minus these few situations. Fraternity life was kind of crazy at my school; it was a top ten party school where most of the people were Greek. The cops came down on everyone really hard regardless of whether or not there was any evidence of wrong doing. It did teach me to network like a pro though. I always thought that would come in handy for this profession.

I guess this is going to start being like beating a dead horse. Someone tells me what I do not want to hear and then I say that is BS and ask again. I guess I got my answer. It depends…
Maybe more importantly…is there anyway that someone can see these circumstances and give me the benefit of the doubt or are they always going to automatically assume the worst?

I guess this is going to start being like beating a dead horse. Someone tells me what I do not want to hear and then I say that is BS and ask again. I guess I got my answer. It depends…

Your biggest issue isn’t your arrest record, it’s your age. You are very young and come off as such in your posts. For example; not taking responsibilty for your actions by saying things like the campus police had it out for you. OK, just because one really is paranoid doesn’t mean that people aren’t really out to get him. Which is my way of saying that even if it is true that police had a hard on against you and your frat brothers you sound wholly irresponsible in blaming them. Thus Prato calling you a victim.  Not seeing your part in the problem, you sound like my kids, who are about your age. “Yoh dad, the jerk cop pulled me out of a line of cars and let the other guys go!” Were you speeding? “Well yeah, but that’s not right!” notheone, you sound exactly like this. It’s a maturity thing. Not to worry, it will change rapidly now that you are out of school.

Hey man,



If it helps at all, I was hired at EDJ @ 22. I had a chance to ask why I was hired…



"Demonstrated Sales Experience, Confidence, College GPA, and Solid Communication Skills"



You mentioned that you had sales experience, what EDJ will look for is “rising responsibility/income”. Can you prove that?



Confidence… well, confident or not, I’m sure you could fake it with a few beers



College GPA… how did you do in school? Perhaps you can show “rising productivity” if your grades were slightly better your senior vs. freshman year etc.



Solid Communication Skills - I had accidentally mentioned an under-the-table job I had during an interview. As soon as I mentioned it, I was cut off and the woman informed me I just made and told me that she must direct me to compliance. I asked her what my chances were, and she said, “In my experience, not impossible. But close.” Anyway, I wrote a letter explaining my situation (some of the stuff in my other post) and related that to why I would avoid Uncle Sam, and them described how I have grown as a human and how I have proven that fact in my life. I got through, was hired, and, well, I am now taking a different route in life.



My letter was actually passed around. I’ve had a few random people in my course of training tell me, “I really liked your letter”. You have good written communication skills, so my advise would be to formulate yourself a 1-2 page essay explaining why you were arrested 4 times, admitting your mistakes, and showing how you are no longer that person. Perhaps someone will be willing to read it and give you a shot?



My 2 cents from my very limited experience.

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I just don’t understand what there is to explain. As a hiring manager, I would see this person (of course I’m biased) as an individual who has gotten the short end of the stick too many times.

I am not even going to address the other statements since my last post. I understand and am heeding what your saying. While it won’t stop me from still trying, at least I know I am in for an uphill battle.
Babbling, that is what you think and I understand you are entitled to that viewpoint. But like I have said so many times already, I do not feel it says anything about my character. Granted, maybe four times seems a bit excessive but some people are truly that unlucky. I can honestly say that two of those times, I had absolutely no business getting in trouble for, at all. The other two, while I didn’t do anything to really deserve getting arrested, I also put myself in a position where there was a likelihood that something bad could happen. Chalk it up to being young and dumb. Again though, your just validating what I said about guilty until proven innocent. I think it does matter that I have no criminal record, only arrests, but you seems to be in the party that feels otherwise. All the others things I have said still apply.

I also have really good friends. The problem is that the few that were not so good (ie did not have my best interest at heart as I did them), amongst the tons of those who were good friends, happened to be part of the reason I got in any trouble to begin with. A wolf in sheep’s clothes, if you will. You live and you learn. I think the biggest thing is that all of this is behind me. So now I look to moving forward.
I will do my best to get hired at one these great firms. If this does not pan out, my first inclination when thinking about a career path was law and I killed the lsat when I took it. So I will have no problem getting in to a great school. What is it that they say, “when one door closes, another door opens.”

Thanks for the advice. Sometimes blunt, sometimes harsh, but never misleading and I appreciate that.

I don’t think he gets accepting responsibility for his actions.  Last time I checked, the law is the law.  You follow it, you’re ok.  You break it, you get punished.

If you get arrested, whether guilty or not, 4 times by the age of 22, you are not just unlucky, you are stupid. Not [guilty] being the operative word…

It matters that you understand what I mean by unlucky:
I am living in the fraternity house and they are like apartment style buildings. If you are familiar with college campuses, you understand what I mean. I have a friend who is upstairs watching a movie with this girl (trying to get some but no such luck for him). The way our house works is that fraternity members have dibs on apartments but if we can not fill the house then an outsider (ie not affiliated person) can move in. This girl who lives on the seconds floor doesn’t really like our fraternity because we are very loud at night (she probably should have thought about that when moving in but whatever…that not important). She calls the cops about a noise complaint. Two of my other brothers are running around the house making all types of noise. I am in my room watching tv with my roommate. My buddy, after realizing he isnt going to get any, comes downstairs and while he is on his way down he is approached by police who tell him there is a noise complaint and tell him to return to his room. Mind you, he was not the cause. So, he is staying in my apartment that night…sleeping on the couch, and he makes his way down to my room. I am unaware any of this has happened. He decides to smoke a cigarette so he goes outside. I have a balcony area (I live on the first floor but it is still like an area outside my room that we can put patio furniture and stuff. He is telling me about this girl and how he didn’t get any and then tells me about the cops (maybe he made a reference to pork). Well, this whole time the cops are waiting in the hall area around the corner and then bum rush us. I get thrown to the ground as does he (mind you, I saw them coming and I put my hands behind my back when they told me, didn’t argue or anything like that). They booked us for disorderly conduct because “we” were told to go inside. I pay over 500 a month, which is expensive for college apartments and I am not allowed to be on my balcony, a floor below, and across the building from where this complaint is made? I’m stupid? I will always have this arrest on my record, even though I was guilty of nothing. My stories go on like this but maybe now you can grasp what I am saying.

It really is not so cut and dry and for someone who really has no experience with my situation (ie you have never been arrested), you can not really make a valid assessment. As someone who has not been arrested, you do not really know how stupid one must be to do so. I know that maybe sounds silly but the degree to which one must act out of line, or be perceived to act of line, can be so minute that you could have very well found yourself getting arrested when you were younger had you been 1 degree off. Like I said, I take responsibility because I could have created my own bad luck as you say. That, however, is not a testament to my character or integrity. Because I may have found myself in a compromising position, still says nothing about whether I actually did anything wrong. Which, according to my “criminal record,” is clearly stated by the fact that it is void of anything.

And I get taking responsibility for my actions. The fact that this will bar me from probably most places I have considered working is responsibility enough. I will continue to pay for my actions, or lack thereof, long after people stop responding to this post.

If your going to call to me stupid, your better of just not saying anything. You do not further the discussion or help it anyway. It is not even helpful criticism. It is attacking me as person and there is no need for that. I think I have been gracious about some of the assumptions made about myself (granted I came to you all asking you your opinions). Thats all I got…no clever sign off or anything like that

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Granted, maybe four times seems a bit excessive but some people are truly that unlucky. I can honestly say that two of those times, I had absolutely no business getting in trouble for, at all. The other two, while I didn’t do anything to really deserve getting arrested, I also put myself in a position where there was a likelihood that something bad could happen. Chalk it up to being young and dumb. Again though, your just validating what I said about guilty until proven innocent. I think it does matter that I have no criminal record, only arrests, but you seems to be in the party that feels otherwise. All the others things I have said still apply.

Apples and oranges babs…and you say when I blow up someones retirement plan. I don’t expect that will happen if the necessary precautions are taken. A lot can change relatively quickly. I am far from the person I was during my those days when all these things happened. I can hedge my future clients investments against risk but as for my past, it is already done.

I am not making excuses…I am telling how it is. Your right though, I should have just locked myself away in an effin ivory tower and done college like that. I am not about making excuses but there are two sides to every story. If telling my side means I am making an excuses than so be it.

Additionally, I did not begin to assess any ones situation other than my own. I made a comment about snaggs because he offered me that information. I don’t begin to know or make assumptions about anyone and neither should you. When I originally asked this question, it wasn’t to find out if you thought I was making lame excuses, if I was naive, or any of the other assumptions you would like to make. It was simply to know if this would stop me from working in this industry. Jumbled in everyone’s rants, I see the answer rather clearly. So I will be working my tail off to make sure I get to where I want to be. I am not whining about my situation. It sucks. However, it is what it is. My question has always been, giving that it is what it is, would there be a possibility?

I guess this is my fault that you feel this way but I as I have no real desire to go into the specifics of each individual situation, not that it would matter anyways, I will take what your saying in stride.

Again, contrary to my tone, I do appreciate everyones input. Instead of answering the various questions that I have asked though, some would rather judge me and take hits at me regarding my character. It’s cool, I just do not see the need.

Instead of answering the various questions that I have asked though, some would rather judge me and take hits at me regarding my character. It’s cool, I just do not see the need.

[quote=nottheone]

A 4 time victim of my environment and circumstance…

[/quote]


Well being that you dont wanna “go into specifics” on the charges, you are leaving yout situation open to various interpretations.


If one of your friends were busted instead of you Id bet $100 you’d call yourself “lucky” because you didnt get caught. But you got busted so now you just call yourself a victim.


If you burn your hand on a stove, you dont turn around and do it again. You created your own environment friend. If it were a one time thing Id maybe see it your way. But 4 times before the age of 21/22 ?

No buddy, I wouldnt trust you with clients hard earned money and wouldnt touch you if I were a hiring manager.

Like I said, its cool. I am not taking it personally at all. It is almost as if you want conflict with me. I said I appreciate your opinion. I also said in my 2nd to last post that I think I have been gracious about some of the assumptions made about
myself (granted I came to you all asking you your opinions).

I am not bothered, I just felt it was unnecessary but do what makes you happy. Who am I to judge?

I understand exactly when given that scenario but rarely are there two people so closely matched like that for the few jobs (because these places hire classes) at a specific branch. One candidate is usually different than the other in some way. Maybe I went in with all the confidence in the world, looking sharp as usual and joe was dressed like a slub and did not know how to talk to people (he actually seemed pretty introverted). What then?

It was never my intention to really get into the details of my situation because I have been around here for a while and I know how things get. I really just wanted an answer which, many times, I have gotten.

Also, I am not an idiot. Everything else being exactly identical, I would hire Joe. My point was to find, at what point do I not look like such a bad candidate?

What if the truth about Joe is that while he has never been arrested, he likes to build bombs or smoke crack in his spare time only he has never gotten caught so he has no record. Now who is the better candidate? Joe, because he is able to hide it so well or myself because while I realize there were some dumb things that happen in the past, they are exactly that, IN THE PAST …as in behind me??

I read it in another post so im going to use it here because it applies:
“Conflict is like a rocking chair, in the end it gets you nowhere” It was something like that.
Point being, write what you would like, but if your what your going to say does not further the discussion, but only to flex your fingers, its probably not necessary and there are better ways to waste your time.

Thanks again!

I feel like a broken record…being arrested does not imply guilt…being convicted does!

[quote=nottheone]I feel like a broken record…being arrested does not imply guilt…being convicted does!
[/quote]

Were you caught drinking alcohol under the age of 21 ? Yes or no.

If I burn my hand on the stove  that is visibly turned on once, my fault. If I am walking next to the stove and there is water on the floor and I slip and try to grab something to stop my fall, I burn my hand on the stove (diff. circumstances-accident perhaps). I am cleaning the kitchen and was told the stove was turned off so I failed to pay additional attention to whether it was on or not and while wiping it down I ignite the sponge or paper towel and I get burned. (that time it was being me being careless or it was me trusting someone when I should have made certain for myself) I tried to think of a fourth scenario but I do not really feel like it. The point is you can make the same mistake more than once and learn your lesson every time and still wind up with the same outcome. I may have been a little careless in my past. Most of the times I got in trouble it was me taking the wrap for someones elses bad behavior. Stupid, I know especially because I shouldn’t have put myself in those situations. (at least I have no criminal record)

I know myself though, which none of you do. I know who I am and being arrested before, while it may speaks volumes to you all, says nothing about who I am. I get defensive (im cool with it but I get defensive) because if you all knew me you would be saying entirely different things. This is however the sentiment of pretty much everyone here so it will be probably be the same sentiment I can expect from someone hiring me who knows as little about myself as you all do. I will just have to work my ass to prove to those who will have the incredible opportunity to hire someone such as myself, it will be well worth their investment.

Thanks for all your time and effort in “guiding me” guys and gal.

Very much appreciated!!

Were you caught drinking alcohol under the age of 21 ? Yes or no.
No
They suspected that I was drinking underage…maybe they were right but maybe they weren’t …the charges were dropped. That should be all that matters!

So how are you guys doing?
First post so here goes:
I had a really big question. I am trying to get into this industry but was curious how my past might come back to haunt me. Let me hit you all with some background:
       I am 22 and just graduated from college recently with a degree in finance (which I know does not mean much but just giving the details). I have 5 years of sales experience. I also have been arrested 4 times.

Before you all start to tell me how irresponsible I am you should know the details concerning my arrests.

I have been arrested four times for silly college fraternity things like underage drinking, open house party,and 2 disorderly conducts. I have never been convicted on any of these charges because in actuality, I did nothing wrong. The police on our campus had it out for fraternity members and I was the unlucky stool who took the fall. Like I said though, I have never been convicted and all the charges against me have been dropped. I did a diversion program once but besides that I had a solid lawyer. Even though I have never been convicted though, all of these arrests theoretically (because I do not know for certain) would appear on my FBI background check that they do, right? Or is that FBI background check just a ruse to get you to divulge information about yourself? I know on my regular background check nothing comes up because I have already looked. I have a clean criminal background they say.

I am not a liar. I also consider myself a person of honesty and integrity so if asked, I wouldn’t want to lie. I also know how much I want this job and do not want to taint my image by saying too much.

Would a place like Merrill or Smith Barney take me even though I have been arrested before? Normally I would think no, but I believe I have extenuating circumstances (like I did not do anything to really deserve these charges to begin with).

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated

Thanks a ton!!

dude, enough with the “i didn’t do anything wrong, it wasn’t really my fault” horsecrap. i’m new to this industry and already i’ve heard so many people make excuses about how their bad situation isn’t their fault. you’re 22. man up, admit that you messed up ( 4 TIMES ), and go out and try your best to get a job. don’t keep feeding us lines that “well the cops just have it out for frat boys, i was just in the wrong place blah blah.” it sounds like you’re looking for approval that you really didn’t do anything wrong when in fact it’s quite obvious that you did. with all the effort you’ve put into proving your innocence here, maybe you could have set up some more interviews now.

I was always told I would make a good lawyer too
I guess the fact that I am still considering it may not bode well anyways for the doing this type of career.
Thanks for that tid bit of insight though. I never really though of it like that.
Favorite answer to my question by far charlie

[quote=noob15]dude, enough with the “i didn’t do anything wrong, it wasn’t really my fault” horsecrap. i’m new to this industry and already i’ve heard so many people make excuses about how their bad situation isn’t their fault. you’re 22. man up, admit that you messed up ( 4 TIMES ), and go out and try your best to get a job. don’t keep feeding us lines that “well the cops just have it out for frat boys, i was just in the wrong place blah blah.” it sounds like you’re looking for approval that you really didn’t do anything wrong when in fact it’s quite obvious that you did. with all the effort you’ve put into proving your innocence here, maybe you could have set up some more interviews now.[/quote]

Whether I man up or not has no impact on the answer. Im not saying i agree or disagree with your assessment. Just food for thought…

Whether you man up or not has impact on your integrity. If you try to weasel your way out of responsibility for your actions, what else will you be dishonest about in the future? If I’m a prospective client of yours and I found out about your past and all you can tell me is, “well it wasn’t ACTUALLY my fault, the cops just hate frat guys, and I was really unlucky,” well you’ve just lost any and all credibility you had. Not a chance in hell you are touching my money. I think most replies on this forum are meant to help you, but at some point you need to realize you screwed up, it WAS your fault one way or another, and if it’s brought up, take responsibility for your actions.

[quote=noob15]Whether you man up or not has impact on your integrity. If you try to weasel your way out of responsibility for your actions, what else will you be dishonest about in the future? If I’m a prospective client of yours and I found out about your past and all you can tell me is, “well it wasn’t ACTUALLY my fault, the cops just hate frat guys, and I was really unlucky,” well you’ve just lost any and all credibility you had. Not a chance in hell you are touching my money. I think most replies on this forum are meant to help you, but at some point you need to realize you screwed up, it WAS your fault one way or another, and if it’s brought up, take responsibility for your actions.[/quote]

Fair enough

[quote=charlie_broker] 

Well I cant even begin to imagine how authorities could arrest you 4 times and you were innocent everytime. Im not saying your lying but you should turn that into a made for t.v. movie.

Im glad the charges were dropped if you were innocent

[quote=pratoman][quote=charlie_broker] 

First, ignore charlie_broker completely.  The post may have made you feel better, but would end the interview process as soon as the background check came back.  Full disclosure is always the best policy.

I think I have only gotten fingerprinted once…not that it matters I guess; the rest of them were more like tickets or citations(notice to appear).
I think I have a large network of people from which I can gather assets from. Not just college students but adults that are very well off. Not that I am relying on them but it sure wouldn’t hurt to help me get started. Besides getting arrested the next thing I did a lot of in college was learn to and successfully network. …not funny but after this conversation a little release does not hurt…

Basically what I have come to realize (actually I think I kind of knew it all along) is that the cards are stacked against me right now. Mostly because of my age but even more so due to my “dubious” past. I have some interviews lined up so I will try and keep you all posted…if you all are interest that is.
I really believed convictions are all that matter…they should be all that matter because one thing Charlie was right about is that cops can pick you up and arrest you for nothing at all (not saying that was or was not the scenario but there is truth in that)

Contrary to what some of you may believe (this is not some sappy victim thing or anything like that) I am really not a bad guy. Shit happens and you have to deal. So I will be doing just that…

Here’s some first hand experience from ‘some wirehouse guy’ i know
I was arrested twice back in college - once for under age drinking and once for hosting a party.  They were both expunged from my record - I have no idea if they would show up on a background check or not.

Regardless, I never tried to hide this information while interviewing, but of course I didn’t broadcast it either.  It never even really crossed my mind except for a few seconds during the formal paperwork.  The application never even had a spot to list non-securities misdemeanors like that.  If anybody ever asked if I had any kind of record, I wouldn’t even mind telling them the two stories.  They’re nothing I’m ashamed of whatsoever.  We’ve probably all got stories out there.  One of mine was for drinking 2 days before I turned 21 - yeah it was against the law, but so are speeding, jaywalking, and having a GPS attached to your windshield (here in Cali)!  Some times I could’ve sworn that my college town busted students just for the purpose of supplying people to do community service and cut grass in the parks for the summer. 

My attitude about illegal activities is different now, just because I need to keep a squeeky clean reputation.  I still disagree with a LOT of laws, but I also realize that I’ve gotta play by the rules of the game.

Interview - see what happens - it can never hurt to try - keep in mind that there are much more important things than if you got caught being noisy in an apartment a few years ago.

I’m not suggesting at all that you enter this career, but I would just suggest you make your decision based on other factors.

The nice thing about this business is that Darwin’s Law eventually takes care of all unqualified candidates. Good luck.

lol

Word of Best Advice:  Never let the naysayers on a Forum determine your fate/future or judge you.  If they have some good, honest, direct advice, that’s fine but I’ve seen plenty on this site where others do not hesitate to judge, discourage and put down others for inquiring about the career field.  Good improvement that no one did that in this thread.

Now I have 667?

How do some people make it out of the womb much less all the way to adulthood.  I have to admit, this turned a bad day into a good one with the laugh I got out of it.

excuse m wa

[quote=megamonet]excuse m wa

You’re just too good to me, Primo.  Thank you.  I’ll have another.