Best firms to work for over the long haul
I was a broker for A.G. Edwards for 5 years then moved to Prudential for 3 years, then left to start my own business not related to the brokerage business. I sold my business and am getting back into the brokerage business and starting over as a trainee. I have offers from Morgan Stanley and Edward Jones. I need help deciding which will be the best choice for the long haul. Advise from brokers who know both systems would be very helpful.
Thanks, UncertainI work for EDJ, been here a long time and I love it. There are several ex-EDJ people on the board who hate EDJ and will detail why. Asking who is the best firm is like asking what actress is the prettiest.
I am primarily looking at the two fims (MS and EJ) for the training, perks, benefits and the potential income over a fifteen year span. If my gross production was the same number at either firm, which would result in the higher payout over that span and create the better retirement.
They are the only two I have had offers from but only spoke with three firms. I have been out of the business for 5 years.
[quote=uncertain] If my gross production was the same number at either firm, which would result in the higher payout over that span and create the better retirement. [/quote]
If you look over the various posts you’ll see the answer is pretty clear cut if that is your main concern.
I don’t want to be perceived as a basher (I’ve never worked at either) so I’ll let you look at a few threads.
Personally, I don’t think you could have pick two polar opposites better… I work for Jones and wouldn’t think to work for MS…
Miss Jgo with jones; they’ll leave you alone to run your own show
I would do Jones for th mandatory 3year sentence…once you are doing 300K+…go out on your own, you will have more freedom to do what is right for your clients, plus you will get a big raise.
Thanks for the comment but why would you never work for MS?
“here’s a phonebook;goodluck”
What about the 1 year non-compete clause they make you sign. How can you leave and take your clients with you?
youll sign one anywhere you go…so deal with it if an when it becomes pertinant
I work for EDJ, been here a long time and I love it. There are several ex-EDJ people on the board who hate EDJ and will detail why. Asking who is the best firm is like asking what actress is the prettiest.
Salma Hayak, since you asked.
I did get the same threats from MS about the short time frame to produce or your out the door. I know this is a tuff business and you have to work your but off for the first three years before you can go to the bathroom, but it is nice to have some support, training and guidence to be the best you can be.
[quote=henryhill] I work for EDJ, been here a long time and I love it. There are several ex-EDJ people on the board who hate EDJ and will detail why. Asking who is the best firm is like asking what actress is the prettiest.
Salma Hayak, since you asked.[/quote]
Good call. I second that.
I stay start at EJ and do well—then you write your own ticket with flexibility to move “up” from EJ (or indy). Industry wide, a move from MS is considered a moved “down” unless to a few other firms. Plus, I think EJ probably has better sales training, which may or not be a big issue if you’ve done this before.
Although the “go where you want to end up” advice sounds nice, it is a reality that the vast majority of people in this business change firms at least once.
Do you know anything about starting out at MS. It seems that a lot of people start and stay at EJ. Do you think it’s because EJ is that great to work for or the brokers don’t know the difference?
[quote=MISS JONES]Personally, I don’t think you could have pick two polar opposites better… I work for Jones and wouldn’t think to work for MS…
Miss J[/quote] How long have you worked for EJ and why do you feel so strongly that you would never work for MS?one believes in mentorship, one does not
I think it's a little of both. Believe it or not, most veterans at Jones end up making serious coin. When you start producing 500K or more, your payout really jumps because of the bonus structure. So if you are getting 50-55% payout, you have your own office, and no BOM hanging over you, you get pretty comfortable. For most people, if you are the hard-charging type that is either after more money, or needs more services to provide for clients (more products, better fee-based, ability to build teams, etc.), you will typically move on. Also, people that fail, can't/won't prospect, or want a higher payout without more work will move independant or to a bank (each for different reasons). That is NOT to say that independants or banks are bad, it's just the being independant allows more freedom/flexibility as far as most everything, and banks often have the built-in lead system (bank clients). With Jones, in order to make it, you really have to by regimented and put in your time. But once you make it, it's pretty cushy.Do you know anything about starting out at MS. It seems that a lot of people start and stay at EJ. Do you think it’s because EJ is that great to work for or the brokers don’t know the difference?
Just remember, like regions at EDJ, branch offices will differ substantially at wirehouses. I am sure there are plenty of MS branches that are fantastic, and plenty that suck. So to categorize an entire brokerage firm like that is a bit of a generalization. Find a great branch, and you may love it.one believes in mentorship, one does not
good point
Just remember, like regions at EDJ, branch offices will differ substantially at wirehouses. I am sure there are plenty of MS branches that are fantastic, and plenty that suck. So to categorize an entire brokerage firm like that is a bit of a generalization. Find a great branch, and you may love it.[/quote] What defines a great branch? The branch here has 5 brokers and a producing branch manager. The manager and and four of the 5 brokers produce 400k or below.[quote=newnew]one believes in mentorship, one does not
[quote=uncertain][quote=MISS JONES]Personally, I don’t think you could have pick two polar opposites better… I work for Jones and wouldn’t think to work for MS…
Miss J[/quote] How long have you worked for EJ and why do you feel so strongly that you would never work for MS?[/quote] First thing.. It doesn't matter how long you have worked at a firm to see that they are total opposites.. One focuses on HIGH net worth clients.. one focuses on Middle class. They have different sales techniques, different investment philosphies, different management.. They are just SOOO different.. if you haven't already figured that out.. Do more homework before making a selection. MS is a good company with both positives and negatives.. (Like all firms). I interviewed at every large wirehouse in my city (We have a lot) I hand selected Jones.. i like their culture, their investment philosphy and the idea of running my own business without the cash investment.. That is why i would never work for them.. Heck, i wouldn't work for any other firm.. But the very last one I would work for would be MS.. Miss J ** Now, I am going to drink my afternoon kool-aid.. Ha HaOK… so I will assume that you don’t like MS’s culture and investment philosphy, the running your own business is the same at any of the firms (somebody is watching over us). What I’m trying to determine is, over the long haul, production being equal, after 15 years, where will I be happier and have more $ to show for the efforts?
What was your client’s like 5 years ago? Think about the demographic you feel comfortable with. ML, MS will force big number out of you due to the asset collecting. Jones, you can do OK with small IRA rollovers and DCA roths. You have some experience, but your survivability in the business would probably be higher at Jones, even then…it is still a pretty tough gig by looking at new FA turnover.
15 years down the road you would be happier at Jones.. You could.. if successful work a 4 day work week. Have a personal assistant and go on two paid vacations a year.. More money.. Might be ML,MS,SB, LPL, RAY J.. I measure success in a different manner than you.. Money isn't my "catch all".. My advice.. Go to MS,ML,SB.. Best of luck!OK… so I will assume that you don’t like MS’s culture and investment philosphy, the running your own business is the same at any of the firms (somebody is watching over us). What I’m trying to determine is, over the long haul, production being equal, after 15 years, where will I be happier and have more $ to show for the efforts?
I do understand the differences, but I live in an area with a lot of high net worth people and a lot of gated communities that you cannot doorknock in. I can make either firm work for me as I feel I can get along with both higher net worth clients and middle class clients. I don't like the idea of being overly scrutinized or micromanaged but I also wonder if the office with many brokers isn't better for mentoring and exchanging ideas. I do have the opportunity do do a "goodnight" program with EJ for one year.OK… so I will assume that you don’t like MS’s culture and investment philosphy, the running your own business is the same at any of the firms (somebody is watching over us). What I’m trying to determine is, over the long haul, production being equal, after 15 years, where will I be happier and have more $ to show for the efforts?
15 years down the road you would be happier at Jones.. You could.. if successful work a 4 day work week. Have a personal assistant and go on two paid vacations a year.. More money.. Might be ML,MS,SB, LPL, RAY J.. I measure success in a different manner than you.. Money isn't my "catch all".. My advice.. Go to MS,ML,SB.. Best of luck! Money should be important to you if you are in this business. Doing whats best for the client has always been the way I do business but money is still important to me as it is for most people in sales. Please don't think that I'm interested in churning or doing anything that's unappropriate for my client as that is not my ambition at all. [/quote][quote=uncertain]OK… so I will assume that you don’t like MS’s culture and investment philosphy, the running your own business is the same at any of the firms (somebody is watching over us). What I’m trying to determine is, over the long haul, production being equal, after 15 years, where will I be happier and have more $ to show for the efforts?
That's a misconception. That may be how you survive starting out, but after a few years, that doesn't cut it. Most guys out 10-15 years either have 1,000 households, or 200-300 that average 750K-1mm. To really make it big, the model is not much different than at wirehouses, though the numbers may be a bit smaller.What was your client’s like 5 years ago? Think about the demographic you feel comfortable with. ML, MS will force big number out of you due to the asset collecting. Jones, you can do OK with small IRA rollovers and DCA roths. You have some experience, but your survivability in the business would probably be higher at Jones, even then…it is still a pretty tough gig by looking at new FA turnover.
I do understand the differences, but I live in an area with a lot of high net worth people and a lot of gated communities that you cannot doorknock in. I can make either firm work for me as I feel I can get along with both higher net worth clients and middle class clients. I don't like the idea of being overly scrutinized or micromanaged but I also wonder if the office with many brokers isn't better for mentoring and exchanging ideas. I do have the opportunity do do a "goodnight" program with EJ for one year. [/quote] I think you are answering your own question, and asking us to validate it. And FYI, having several FA's in an office does not necessarily equate to mentoring opportunities. I know several vets that say they got far more help at Jones from other FA's than they did when they were in a wirehouse with 15 other guys sitting right next to them. If you can do the GK plan, I would take it.[quote=uncertain]OK… so I will assume that you don’t like MS’s culture and investment philosphy, the running your own business is the same at any of the firms (somebody is watching over us). What I’m trying to determine is, over the long haul, production being equal, after 15 years, where will I be happier and have more $ to show for the efforts?
24,
no way...200-300 750-1 million clients???? How many EJ brokers do you know with a 200 to 300mm book? ZERO in my old region. There is nothing wrong with the middle class model, it works well for the company.[quote=uncertain]
Money should be important to you if you are in this business. Doing whats best for the client has always been the way I do business but money is still important to me as it is for most people in sales. Please don't think that I'm interested in churning or doing anything that's unappropriate for my client as that is not my ambition at all. [/quote] [/quote] Hey.. I never said money isn't important. Maybe you should have done some homework before you made that assumption.. Look at my past posts. But if you chase money.. All you will be doing in chasing money. I would also give you the advice that you shouldn't tell people why they ought to be in a business you aren't in.. Seems kinda foolish on your part. I am going to place my bet.. You won't be in the business in 3 years.. No hard feelings but.. That is my bet. Miss JMiss,
don't shun him away! He may be a great fit for Jones!’
c’mon leave b24 alone he’s snorting the koolaid before you add the water.
200-300 families w/ $750-1000K how many ej'ers have gotten this far???[quote=MISS JONES]
I removed my last comment B7.. I just get tired sometimes of these newbies. He came on here to ask us a question.. Everyone gave him advice.. He already had his mind made up and was here to just waste all of our times. Then he makes an assumption about me and then tells me I should be money motivated.. Heck, he isn't even in the business.. ?!?! and he doesn't know me, my motivations and has wasted my time reading his responses.. Miss J Wow Miss J you seem to read into these messages instead of reading them. You have made so many assumptions about what I've written it's not funny. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder or an attitude problem. If you go back and read my initial question you will see that I was previously in the brokerage business for eight years (which I'm certain is longer then you have been in the business) and did quite well. I have been away from it for five years and am looking at two firms I have no experience with. I asked for comments and was particularly interested in comments from people who knew from experience, both firms. I wish you nothing but the best but feel you have nothing knew to add. I may be wrong........it might just be all the sugar from the Koolaid! [quote=Broker24][quote=uncertain][QUOTE] I do understand the differences, but I live in an area with a lot of high net worth people and a lot of gated communities that you cannot doorknock in. I can make either firm work for me as I feel I can get along with both higher net worth clients and middle class clients. I don't like the idea of being overly scrutinized or micromanaged but I also wonder if the office with many brokers isn't better for mentoring and exchanging ideas. I do have the opportunity do do a "goodnight" program with EJ for one year. [/quote] I think you are answering your own question, and asking us to validate it. [/quote] [/quote][quote=compliancejerk] c’mon leave b24 alone he’s snorting the koolaid before you add the water.
200-300 families w/ $750-1000K how many ej’ers have gotten this far???[/quote]
I think you misunderstood my post. My point was that most advisors have books that go in one of two directions as they age. Either they do the 1,000 household thing to get to million-dollar level, or they pare back their book to get to their 300 top households and do the hgih-net-worth comprehensive planner thing. I didn’t say ALL or MOST have 200-300 families with that amount of assets. And I also did not say I am doing that, or every FA in every region does that. But if you look at MANY advisors past the 15 year mark, that is what they are doing. It’s not that crazy. I am close to a few top producers in my region, and I see what they do, and they also tell me about many of the other advisors they are ASPIRING to. I have no allusions that Jones advisors produce more than other firms. I know that there is probably no Jones advisor even in the top 250 in the country. That’s just not our model. But there are many $1mm producers, and some $2mm producers. And if you compare apples-to-apples, that’s not too bad. Most wirehouse or indy guys doing the more than $2mm in production are on teams, they are not producing that by themselves.
24,
I see what you are saying..you were implying numbers for the whole industry. i do know a ML guy w/400 households and 350mm under management. The big Jones guy in my area has 150mm, 3 boas and 3000 households.[quote=Broker7]24,
I see what you are saying..you were implying numbers for the whole industry. i do know a ML guy w/400 households and 350mm under management. The big Jones guy in my area has 150mm, 3 boas and 3000 households. [/quote] Correct. However, I do know several personally that are in the 125-175mm range with only 300 or so accounts. Now, it took them time to get there, and they had many more accounts than that at one time, but they Goodknighted them away. Different advisors have different business models. The guy with 3000 accounts is a transactional guy. Has to be. But the guy with 300 is a planner. He gets everything, the life, the LTC, the 529, the IRA, the brokerage, and does the estate planning. Having 300 clients with 500-750k avg. AUM isn't that difficult for someone in the business a long time.haha, we had a jones guy in my region with 100m at American alone. probably 95% of his business. he was sorta anti-fee based,
[quote=theironhorse]haha, we had a jones guy in my region with 100m at American alone. probably 95% of his business. he was sorta anti-fee based,
[/quote] The anti-fee based stuff kills me. That is sort of the "old-guard" thing. I can't wait to start doing advisory accounts and annuitizing my book. As it is, I try to use quite a bit of C shares (relatively), and I have done exactly one SMA. I would love to do more, but not many of my clients fit the profile. Our minimum is 500K, but I have a hard time putting a 500K IRA into SMA's. I just can't see the benefit (other than to me). To be honest, a well-planned AMF portfolio can kick the snot out of most SMA's. I've reviewed dozens of SMA managers, and most of their returns are average, without the focus on risk minimization like AMF. When you get into the tax benefits, then it becomes much more appealing. Hopefully as I continue to swim upstream, more of that will come. I don't have many clients with large amounts of non-qualified money. I have a few with $1-2mm, but that's the extent of it. I have many IRA's in the $500-1mm range. But I must say, if you are trying to run a simple, profitable business, and do right by your clients, just using American Funds is not the worst thing you could do. I know a lot of indy's and insurance guys that use strictly AMF, Franklin, or Oppenheimer. They do no stock or bond business, and only use one MFD manager. If you believe in something, and most of your clients are of similar profile (net worths, etc.), why try to get all complicated?Source URL:https://www.wealthmanagement.com/forums/rookies-trainees/best-firms-work-over-long-haul